Author Topic: **spoilers**JOKER***spoilers***  (Read 1131 times)

Offline alyssa

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**spoilers**JOKER***spoilers***
« on: October 04, 2019, 04:38:11 PM »
Thoughts?!?

that was the most uncomfortable movie to watch but what a commentary on our society. Amazing performance by Joaquin Phoenix, probably my fav joker yet.
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Offline perc2100

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Re: **spoilers**JOKER***spoilers***
« Reply #1 on: October 04, 2019, 05:01:00 PM »
NON SPOILER thoughts:


I just came back from seeing JOKER, and I'm still a bit taken aback.  This film is dark and intense: Joaquin Phoenix gives a master class in disturbed and broken that is about as unsettling as a mainstream (let alone mainstream comic book) film gets.  Part of me doesn't know if I'm happy to come back into the light after the credits ended, or if I actually want to spend more time with Phoenix's Arthur: it was that mesmerizing of a performance. To give you an idea of how dark this film gets, imagine if TAXI DRIVER began with DeNiro's Travis Bickel already having a mohawk and murdering people within the opening 20 minutes or so (and not pimps, sex traffickers looking for young girls, or gangsters), with an additional 90 minutes or so of Travis delving deeper into madness and escalating violence.  This film feels closer to a horror film than a comic book film: or even a drama.

Let's start with the technical aspects: this film feels like it was made in the 1970s, and looks like 1970's New York City.  Director Todd Phillips and his Cinematographer Lawrence Sher paint Gotham as you've seen NYC in the late 1960s-1970s NY New Wave realism films.  It's easy to sight Martin Scorsese as an influence here, but also maybe a bit of DePalma or Shirley Clarke's THE COOL WORLD or Cassavetes' SHADOWS .  It feels like Phillips could drop his characters into Travis Bickel's Time's Square w/out missing a beat.  I really dug the look of this film, and it adds to the unsettledness of Phoenix's performance: dark, dangerous, where something unexpected-in-a-bad-way could happen in an instant.

Phoenix will rightfully get a LOT of attention for his portrayal.  I never got the sense that his Arthur was necessarily a character to sympathize with: maybe as a human being who clearly has issues that are being neglected.  Arthur is a mentally unhealthy man who is neglected by Gotham's social services and teeters over the edge when his perfunctory counseling is cut due to city budget restraints.  But Phoenix rides the grey line so well in his portrayal, that I think audience will rightfully see Arthur more as a dangerous threat, waiting to explode as his life goes into a downward spiral.  The film deals with a 'Resistance' movement, and unrest within the city where the downtrodden are snappy with the upperclass.  The story seems to paint the privileged in incredibly broad strokes, mostly as entitled jerks (to the story's detriment, IMO).  Arther's descent takes a steep turn on a subway when well-dressed young men are annoyingly antagonizing a female passenger, and then move on to Arthur when they spot him as an 'easy target.'  When Arthur loses it and resorts to shooting the seeming Yuppies, it sparks a movement within the city.

Enter Thomas Wayne, who has a dubious connection to Arthur and his sickly mom.  Wayne is the Thomas Wayne we mostly all know from the comics and origin stories we've seen in Batman films, though here we see a darker side of Wayne: perhaps one that is justified by Arthur's actions (Arthur makes a visit to Wayne Manor and interacts with young Bruce who looks to be in upper middle school/HS underclass).

The script is written in a way where JOKER feels like both a pseudo-origin story as well as a definitively ending one.  This is the starkest version of The Joker we've ever seen on the big screen.  I think the trailers give an accurate portrayal of the film.  If you like what you see in the trailers, chances are you'll like the film.  If the trailers do nothing for you, repulse you, make you think of "incels" or violence-obsessed young men, this movie will back-up those feelings.  What you see is what you get.

I think I mostly like this film as a look into a damaged psyche who has spent his life trying to change who he is but decides to embrace the dark, evil tendencies and truly becomes happy.  The acting is good all around for the most part, with Zazie Beetz stellar in her supporting role as a neighbor of Arthur's who he might find some connection with.  Frances Conroy turns in a strong performance as Arthur's troubled mom who has a connection with Thomas Wayne.  After other male-dominant films Phillips has made (such as the Wolf Pack-centric HANGOVER films), it's almost surprising to see such strong female roles, albeit in smallish doses (for Beetz, at least - Conroy has a more substantial part but not as fleshed out as I would like).

The biggest disappointment for me, is one that I'm almost amused with: the almost forced-feeling ties to the Batman mythos.  Thomas Wayne and his connection to Arthur's mom are a major plot point, and the big climax of the film of course finds a way to heavily involve the entire Wayne family.  I don't want to spoil anything here, but my eyes rolled.
This is weird, as Batman was easily my favorite comic growing up, and Batman's "relationship" with The Joker is integral and often rife with great/classic storylines.  It's no coincidence that two most-loved Batman films involve The Joker as the main bad guy.  But 'forcing' the Batman mythos into JOKER felt unnecessary to me: like it was a WB/DC mandate.  What could've been a subtle connection instead felt way on-the-nose.

I generally liked JOKER, but it's not going to be for everyone.  Follow your instincts: they'll serve you well with this one!

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Re: **spoilers**JOKER***spoilers***
« Reply #2 on: Today at 03:49:29 PM »

Offline perc2100

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Re: **spoilers**JOKER***spoilers***
« Reply #2 on: October 04, 2019, 05:07:16 PM »
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Thoughts?!?

that was the most uncomfortable movie to watch but what a commentary on our society. Amazing performance by Joaquin Phoenix, probably my fav joker yet.
It definitely doesn't feel like the same studio that brought us SHAZAM! or AQUAMAN, that's for sure!  This is a great byproduct of the JUSTICE LEAGUE and Snyderverse films missing the mark, as WB clearly let director Phillips take a huge chance with a film this dark!

The one thing that kinda really bugged me, though (HUGEish spoilers here):
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Offline alyssa

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Re: **spoilers**JOKER***spoilers***
« Reply #3 on: October 05, 2019, 09:18:29 AM »
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It definitely doesn't feel like the same studio that brought us SHAZAM! or AQUAMAN, that's for sure!  This is a great byproduct of the JUSTICE LEAGUE and Snyderverse films missing the mark, as WB clearly let director Phillips take a huge chance with a film this dark!

The one thing that kinda really bugged me, though (HUGEish spoilers here):
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agreed, it's really nice to see the studio giving the creators free reign. I loved the evolution of the movement by the joker- that dance scene on the steps....stunning. tbh, i found the entire first part of the movie to be so uncomfortable due to the social awkwardness of the Harvey. As a geek/nerd -the social anxiety is painful. 
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« Last Edit: October 05, 2019, 09:25:38 AM by alyssa »
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Offline perc2100

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Re: **spoilers**JOKER***spoilers***
« Reply #4 on: October 05, 2019, 12:01:08 PM »
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agreed, it's really nice to see the studio giving the creators free reign. I loved the evolution of the movement by the joker- that dance scene on the steps....stunning. tbh, i found the entire first part of the movie to be so uncomfortable due to the social awkwardness of the Harvey. As a geek/nerd -the social anxiety is painful. 
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The dance scene: swoon!  Especially when IIRC the dance first occurs right after
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.  I agree regarding the social awkwardness of the first act.  As a HS teacher I'm around many varieties of special needs students, and I saw touches of students past and present in Arthur's mental and emotional issues: his yearning for social acceptance while seemingly knowing it's not going to happen and he's unable to overcome his mental health challenges.

A lot of critics have written off any sort of commentary or whatnot of JOKER, saying that it's too intellectually vapid to really have anything to say other than "angry white guy goes over the edge and erupts in violence," but I think mental challenges of Arthur in the first act coupled with the society and mental health industry failures is at least slightly more than surface level poignant.  Again, as a teacher I see these types of behaviors frequently (not the violent aspects too often, though I saw that happen in a nearby classroom last week where a special needs kid erupted in pretty gnarly violence against another student) so maybe I'm reading more into the movie than, say, someone who just watches movies/comments on movies for a living that might not have that type of background experience.  The resistance movement in the film also feels of-the-time: where a mentally disturbed person captures the attentions of the underprivileged and needy, albeit via way wrong means (*insert political commentary here).

Offline Darth_Primus

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Re: **spoilers**JOKER***spoilers***
« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2019, 11:09:54 AM »
At first, I was underwhelmed by the Joker movie because I felt like it didn't live up to the hype.   I'm not referring to the hype regarding Joaquin Phoenix's performance, because it was definitely Oscar consideration worthy, but just the hype for the film from the Venice film festival.

After that initial thought about the film, I was about to process my thoughts and now feel very appreciative of the film and think it's great.   It's the only Batman movie where I feel Gotham comes to life.   Typically, Gotham is just the background setting and it's the villains that make the city rotten.  In this Joker film, Gotham is the antagonist in the film; a character of sorts.