Author Topic: And so it begins. 2017  (Read 12054 times)

Offline chocolateshake

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Re: And so it begins.
« Reply #15 on: June 20, 2017, 07:01:48 PM »
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Actually, the bolded part pretty much sounds exactly like a public transit system you'll find in most cities, at least in the US.

Not in my experience.  First, US public transit is not good at all compared to many other places in the world.  The US is a car culture and public transit has a stigma.  Not so in much of the world.

Second, those differences are even more pronounced in San Diego.  I lived in San Francisco for years and have used public transit extensively in New York.  While I know some people in Manhattan who would never step foot in the subway, I find it to be fine.  Similarly in San Francisco, it's an accepted way to get around by a wide demographic of the population.  From students to millionaires, it's just much less hassle than driving in the Bay Area.

In San Diego, well........ most people who can afford to drive will drive.  There's also the factor that the trolley is by the honor system.  You don't need to have a ticket to ride it.  There's no gate or a ticket check to get on.  So it's easy to ride without a ticket.  Which just exacerbates the situation.  There is some ticket enforcement which they step up during Comic Con, but normally it just doesn't happen very much.  Even when it does, people see the cops come on at a stop and they just hop off and wait for the next train.

In San Diego, particularly on the orange line, I have seen fights, people playing music loudly is the rule not the exception, and there are frequent homeless.  I rode public transit in San Francisco 100 times more than I do in San Diego, I never saw a single fight and people playing music was uncommon.  I'm not saying everyone is like that, 90+% of the people are well behaved and just trying to make it home.  But it only takes a single person cranking his music or 2 guys duking it out to make a ride miserable.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2017, 07:03:55 PM by chocolateshake »

Offline hikanteki

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Re: And so it begins.
« Reply #16 on: June 20, 2017, 07:12:15 PM »
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Not in my experience.  First, US public transit is not good at all compared to many other places in the world.  The US is a car culture and public transit has a stigma.  Not so in much of the world.

Second, those differences are even more pronounced in San Diego.  I lived in San Francisco for years and have used public transit extensively in New York.  While I know some people in Manhattan who would never step foot in the subway, I find it to be fine.  Similarly in San Francisco, it's an accepted way to get around by a wide demographic of the population.  From students to millionaires, it's just much less hassle than driving in the Bay Area.

In San Diego, well........ most people who can afford to drive will drive.  There's also the factor that the trolley is by the honor system.  You don't need to have a ticket to ride it.  There's no gate or a ticket check to get on.  So it's easy to ride without a ticket.  Which just exacerbates the situation.  There is some ticket enforcement which they step up during Comic Con, but normally it just doesn't happen very much.  Even when it does, people see the cops come on at a stop and they just hop off and wait for the next train.

In San Diego, particularly on the orange line, I have seen fights, people playing music loudly is the rule not the exception, and there are frequent homeless.  I rode public transit in San Francisco 100 times more than I do in San Diego, I never saw a single fight and people playing music was uncommon.  I'm not saying everyone is like that, 90+% of the people are well behaved and just trying to make it home.  But it only takes a single person cranking his music or 2 guys duking it out to make a ride miserable.

We must have had different experiences. Having lived in San Francisco too and taken public transit as my main mode of transportation until it drove me crazy enough to the point where I couldn't take it anymore, I can say that what you've described as happening on SD transit, I've seen on SF transit tenfold. Muni especially, and BART can be bad too. Caltrain is usually fine, as far as atmosphere goes. (Their on-time record is a completely different story, though.) While true that there are probably more people who accept it as a valid method of transit, there are even more frequent homeless. I was accosted by them nearly every day I took the bus or BART. I have seen plenty of fights on transit and even a mugging, and music was very common. (And like you are saying, this isn't 90% of the people...but enough to make it miserable.) As bad as it is to drive in/find parking around SF, I'll put up with it anyday over taking transit.

From 2008-2009, fare enforcements on SF transit were VERY infrequent. I only saw them in the underground stations on the Metro. I never saw them above ground, or on a bus. In 2010 I did start to see more of them and they appeared on the buses too. But soon after that I stopped relying on public transit, so I'm not sure if they continued or if it was just a wave.
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Re: And so it begins. 2017
« Reply #17 on: Today at 08:46:46 AM »

Offline Mel

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Re: And so it begins.
« Reply #17 on: June 20, 2017, 10:21:48 PM »
Agreed. The worst public transit experiences I've had were in SF. I ride the trolley here in SD all the time b/c I find it enjoyable. I take it downtown almost every time I'm going to a Padres game. I took it to SDCC every day up until a couple years ago when I started doing Convention Center parking b/c I realized I could be packing a cooler with drinks and lunch in my car. Homeless people do not bother me. Sure I've seen some weird behavior from some homeless people on the trolley who are clearly mentally ill, but nothing that made me feel unsafe. Once when I was on jury duty for 3 weeks I took the trolley downtown to the Hall of Justice every day and grew to really love my trolley time each day. I read 2 books!
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Offline marcia29

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Re: And so it begins.
« Reply #18 on: June 21, 2017, 04:56:14 AM »
A born and bred NYC-er, at first I couldn't wait to leave the crowded subway system and move to a place where cars were the norm.  But --ooops---I didn't drive.  The transit system here in Jacksonville, FL is sporadic and glitchy, with constant routing changes and a frustrated ridership.  Jacksonville is the largest city in area in the US.  I realize that is a lot of ground to cover.  But really.  Anyway, when I came to SDCC, androde the trolley, it felt kind of like 'home'.  Of course it was only for a few days.  Even then I did get Conan fatigue...enough of that red hair swirl.  Reminds me of being in Disney and seeing MM in all things...even my coffee. :)
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Offline darqamin

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Re: And so it begins.
« Reply #19 on: June 21, 2017, 07:03:24 AM »
I've mostly just taken the bus to and from the airport in terms of public transportation. I've taken the trolley a few times, haven't had any bad experiences.

Offline chocolateshake

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Re: And so it begins.
« Reply #20 on: June 21, 2017, 11:00:46 AM »
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From 2008-2009, fare enforcements on SF transit were VERY infrequent. I only saw them in the underground stations on the Metro. I never saw them above ground, or on a bus. In 2010 I did start to see more of them and they appeared on the buses too. But soon after that I stopped relying on public transit, so I'm not sure if they continued or if it was just a wave.

In SF, the driver on each bus/tram should be enforcing it by only allowing people in the front by him and not out the exits further back.  Of course how well that works is purely up to each driver.  Some drivers are sticklers and will get up and kick people out that hopped on through the back door.  Other drivers just don't care even if you go through the front door without buying a ticket or having a transfer.  It also matters where this is happening.  It's easier when there are just a handful of people hopping on.  In Chinatown where it's a mass of people thorough every door every time, they don't even try.  If I'm at a window seat going through Chinatown headed to Union Square, I don't even try to get off until we hit the Bart station.  It's just not worth the effort.

In San Diego, it's officially the honor system on the trolley.  Except for the rare transit police spot check, there is no mechanism to enforce tickets.

Offline MickeyJack

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Re: And so it begins.
« Reply #21 on: June 21, 2017, 11:01:24 AM »
This thread needs to be renamed.


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Offline Mel

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Re: And so it begins.
« Reply #22 on: June 21, 2017, 11:14:03 AM »
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This thread needs to be renamed.


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LOL

Back on topic......with the list of exhibitors and the map coming out today.....for it at least this begins the, "I really need to watch how much time I spend obsessing over SDCC while at work!" which basically means, it's gonna start coming so fast an furious from now and have so much information to pore over from this day forward, most of us are going to be playing the "quick minimize screen!" game every day for the next month!
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Offline MickeyJack

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Re: And so it begins.
« Reply #23 on: June 21, 2017, 11:18:48 AM »
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LOL

Back on topic......with the list of exhibitors and the map coming out today.....for it at least this begins the, "I really need to watch how much time I spend obsessing over SDCC while at work!" which basically means, it's gonna start coming so fast an furious from now and have so much information to pore over from this day forward, most of us are going to be playing the "quick minimize screen!" game every day for the next month!
You said it brother about trying to get work done during the last stretch before the con. I have a constant tape in my head repeating, "Stay on target! Stay in target!"


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Offline hikanteki

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Re: And so it begins.
« Reply #24 on: June 21, 2017, 11:26:20 AM »
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In SF, the driver on each bus/tram should be enforcing it by only allowing people in the front by him and not out the exits further back.  Of course how well that works is purely up to each driver.  Some drivers are sticklers and will get up and kick people out that hopped on through the back door.  Other drivers just don't care even if you go through the front door without buying a ticket or having a transfer.  It also matters where this is happening.  It's easier when there are just a handful of people hopping on.  In Chinatown where it's a mass of people thorough every door every time, they don't even try.  If I'm at a window seat going through Chinatown headed to Union Square, I don't even try to get off until we hit the Bart station.  It's just not worth the effort.

The drivers are not the ones who enforce it; transit inspectors do. For most drivers it's not worth the effort, and there really is no way they can enforce it unless they just plain don't open up the back door OR they have an agent monitoring all doors at each stop. If they get out of their chair to kick off someone who's boarding through the back or make sure everyone boarding in the back has a monthly pass or transfer, then other people could just walk in the front.

These articles from the SD-UT and SF MTA show that 97.5% of riders in San Diego proper fare, making the evasion rate 2.5%--compared to 7.9% in San Francisco:

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In San Diego, it's officially the honor system on the trolley.  Except for the rare transit police spot check, there is no mechanism to enforce tickets.

Same with the above ground part of SF Metro (and most other above ground light rail systems I've been on such as San Jose, Portland, Denver, and Seattle, LA too even the below ground parts) -- they don't have turnstiles you have to pay to get through, they just rely on transit police for fare enforcement. Also, although I know the SD-UT article mentions that it's officially the honor system, if they can and do fine people for not paying, then it's not really the "honor system"...
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Offline chocolateshake

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Re: And so it begins.
« Reply #25 on: June 21, 2017, 11:33:30 AM »
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I took it to SDCC every day up until a couple years ago when I started doing Convention Center parking b/c I realized I could be packing a cooler with drinks and lunch in my car.

I use the lockers at the gym for that.  It's like a high school locker for me during Comic Con.

Offline chocolateshake

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Re: And so it begins.
« Reply #26 on: June 21, 2017, 11:36:51 AM »
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LOL

Back on topic......with the list of exhibitors and the map coming out today.....for it at least this begins the, "I really need to watch how much time I spend obsessing over SDCC while at work!" which basically means, it's gonna start coming so fast an furious from now and have so much information to pore over from this day forward, most of us are going to be playing the "quick minimize screen!" game every day for the next month!

I really wish scheduling information would come out earlier.  It would make planning easier.  Somethings, like the schedule at Conival, is so fluid that you really don't know what's going to happen each day until you go there and see the schedule in the morning.  I wish they would reflect that schedule online.  I don't see why they don't but I've asked them in the past and they say the monitors at the event is the most accurate schedule.

Offline alyssa

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Re: And so it begins.
« Reply #27 on: June 21, 2017, 11:41:06 AM »
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Year number 9. 60 years old. Dean of a university. Rational. Mature. All I can respond to being in the home stretch is, "Yay! Yay! Yay!" You'd swear I was a newb; I'm so excited to see folks again.

^^ this. I'm looking forward to the meetups & line hangouts more then anything else !
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Offline MickeyJack

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Re: And so it begins.
« Reply #28 on: June 21, 2017, 11:41:51 AM »
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^^ this. I'm looking forward to the meetups & line hangouts more then anything else !
Preach!


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Offline perc2100

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Re: And so it begins.
« Reply #29 on: June 21, 2017, 01:42:35 PM »
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Not in my experience.  First, US public transit is not good at all compared to many other places in the world.  The US is a car culture and public transit has a stigma.  Not so in much of the world.

Second, those differences are even more pronounced in San Diego.  I lived in San Francisco for years and have used public transit extensively in New York.  While I know some people in Manhattan who would never step foot in the subway, I find it to be fine.  Similarly in San Francisco, it's an accepted way to get around by a wide demographic of the population.  From students to millionaires, it's just much less hassle than driving in the Bay Area.

In San Diego, well........ most people who can afford to drive will drive.  There's also the factor that the trolley is by the honor system.  You don't need to have a ticket to ride it.  There's no gate or a ticket check to get on.  So it's easy to ride without a ticket.  Which just exacerbates the situation.  There is some ticket enforcement which they step up during Comic Con, but normally it just doesn't happen very much.  Even when it does, people see the cops come on at a stop and they just hop off and wait for the next train.

In San Diego, particularly on the orange line, I have seen fights, people playing music loudly is the rule not the exception, and there are frequent homeless.  I rode public transit in San Francisco 100 times more than I do in San Diego, I never saw a single fight and people playing music was uncommon.  I'm not saying everyone is like that, 90+% of the people are well behaved and just trying to make it home.  But it only takes a single person cranking his music or 2 guys duking it out to make a ride miserable.

Interesting; in my experience as a San Diego local the vast experience of me using the trolley is very different.  I take the trolley almost exclusively to Padres games, and as a season ticket holder that's a lot of trolley rides (not to mention anytime I go to The Q for events, such as the US Soccer match in the winter).  There are homeless at times, but there are homeless in every city: they typically don't bother anybody in my experience.