Author Topic: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills cinematographer with prop gun.  (Read 948 times)

Offline chocolateshake

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Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills cinematographer with prop gun.
« Reply #15 on: October 25, 2021, 03:59:03 PM »
It gets worse.  Now it's reported that there was an accidental gun discharge days before this happened.

Offline TardisMom

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Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills cinematographer with prop gun.
« Reply #16 on: October 25, 2021, 04:20:21 PM »
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It gets worse.  Now it's reported that there was an accidental gun discharge days before this happened.

Not just one.  Two.  This may actually get some changes made in how weapons are handled on sets.

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Offline chocolateshake

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Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills cinematographer with prop gun.
« Reply #17 on: October 27, 2021, 02:17:34 PM »
It gets worse.  Now it's reported that they were using the gun for target practice on set.  They were playing with it with real ammo.  And now the sheriff says they've recovered a bullet.  It was recovered from the shoulder of the director.  But being cautious, they emphasize that it's only suspected as being the bullet involved in the accident.  IMO, digging out a bullet from the wound of someone that's been shot is probably the bullet they were shot with.

Offline Andrew Costa Mesa

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Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills cinematographer with prop gun.
« Reply #18 on: October 27, 2021, 03:09:19 PM »
The AD admitted he didn’t check all the rounds first before handing the gun to Baldwin, a violation of safety protocols.

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The only thing that could get Alec in trouble is that he is listed as a “producer” in the credits.  As a producer, it’s your job to know what is going on in your film shoot.

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« Last Edit: October 28, 2021, 12:16:30 AM by Andrew Costa Mesa »
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Offline perc2100

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Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills cinematographer with prop gun.
« Reply #19 on: October 28, 2021, 08:40:07 AM »
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It gets worse.  Now it's reported that they were using the gun for target practice on set.  They were playing with it with real ammo.  And now the sheriff says they've recovered a bullet.  It was recovered from the shoulder of the director.  But being cautious, they emphasize that it's only suspected as being the bullet involved in the accident.  IMO, digging out a bullet from the wound of someone that's been shot is probably the bullet they were shot with.

HAHAHAH; that's like a legal team for the PD explicitly saying "don't screw up verbiage with a Hollywood production company that may have deep pockets to sue."
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The AD admitted he didn’t check all the rounds first before handing the gun to Baldwin, a violation of safety protocols.

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The only thing that could get Alec in trouble is that he is listed as a “producer” in the credits.  As a producer, it’s your job to know what is going on in your film shoot.

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It really feels like this gets worse every story: labor issues, sub-standard safety measures, inexperienced armorer, lax protocols on set.
As for the label of "producer," it's a well-known pseudo-joke in the business that someone can have that label as a favor from an executive and have almost nothing to do with the production of the film.  I can't read that LA Times article behind a paywall at work, but I presume that outlet is reporting that the title could literally be a vanity title for Baldwin, or even a specific payday for him since it's a smaller/indie film.  He may have had little/nothing to do with the day-to-day production.
The AD failing protocols is a HUGE red flag on just how poorly this production was run.  The AD on a set is the one who's really running things while the director is running the technical stuff (AD = runs all the people while the Director talks to principal actors and the technical aspects like coordinating shots w/the DP).  Typically on a film or TV set with real weapons involved, there are so many layers of redundancy as far as safety protocols, there have to be A LOT of people failing for this type of fatal accident to occur (which is why shooting accidents are really rare on set: stunt accidents, unfortunately, are A LOT more common) but I suspect from an on-set perspective that 'buck' begins and ends with the Assistant Director.

Offline Miclpea

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Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills cinematographer with prop gun.
« Reply #20 on: October 28, 2021, 01:38:48 PM »
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It gets worse.  Now it's reported that they were using the gun for target practice on set.  They were playing with it with real ammo.  And now the sheriff says they've recovered a bullet.  It was recovered from the shoulder of the director.  But being cautious, they emphasize that it's only suspected as being the bullet involved in the accident.  IMO, digging out a bullet from the wound of someone that's been shot is probably the bullet they were shot with.
Exactly!!!


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Offline Andrew Costa Mesa

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Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills cinematographer with prop gun.
« Reply #21 on: October 28, 2021, 04:41:00 PM »
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As for the label of "producer," it's a well-known pseudo-joke in the business that someone can have that label as a favor from an executive and have almost nothing to do with the production of the film.  I can't read that LA Times article behind a paywall at work, but I presume that outlet is reporting that the title could literally be a vanity title for Baldwin, or even a specific payday for him since it's a smaller/indie film.  He may have had little/nothing to do with the day-to-day production.

From the Los Angeles Times article:

Sometimes the credit is simply a vanity title to boost an actor’s sense of involvement in a project. Sometimes it is a way to defer upfront fees to a performer in favor of back-end payments. And sometimes an actor is so deeply involved with a project that the credit is a way to make official their added influence along the way.

“It’s so malleable,” said a producer who has worked with actor-producers in the past and declined to be identified due to the sensitive nature of the subject. “He could just step back and say, ‘I don’t know what you’re talking about, I’m acting in this,’ even though, in name, he’s a producer. Or he could feel a lot of responsibility. It just all depends on who the actor is.”

Two people on a film set who both have the title of producer may nevertheless perform different functions on the production, from finding and developing the material to hiring the crew. Tom Nunan, continuing lecturer at the UCLA School of Theater, Film and Television and an executive producer on the Oscar-winning “Crash,” likened the distinction between more creative producing work and that of physical production to the difference between an architect and a contractor working on a building.

“I don’t think on the ground there was any confusion about who’s in charge of what. I believe that, on most sets, it’s very clear,” said Nunan. “Even though in the credits there might be an awful lot of executive producers and producers on this, on the ground when something’s being produced, it’s very clear what the hierarchy is.”


The dual role of star and producer on “Rust” may have given Baldwin a sense of additional challenges and responsibilities on the set.

“You are always aware of what’s going on all around you,” Nunan said. “Believe me, he was aware of all of the pressures and the stress of the production going on while he was also mastering whatever scene he had to act in on the day. You never, ever are able to shed that hat, even if you wanted to.”
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Offline alyssa

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Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills cinematographer with prop gun.
« Reply #22 on: October 29, 2021, 09:00:38 AM »
The armor speaks out, defending herself.

Quote
First Hannah would like to extend her deepest and most sincere condolences to the family and friends of Halyna. She was an inspirational woman in film who Hannah looked up to. She also offers her thoughts and prayers for a speedy recovery to Joel. Hannah is devastated and completely beside herself over the events that have transpired.

She would like to address some untruths that have been told to the media, which have falsely portrayed her and slandered her. Safety is Hannah’s number one priority on set. Ultimately this set would never have been compromised if live ammo were not introduced. Hannah has no idea where the live rounds came from. Hannah and the prop master gained control over the guns and she never witnessed anyone shoot live rounds with these guns and nor would she permit that. They were locked up every night and at lunch and there’s no way a single one of them was unaccounted for or being shot by crew members. Hannah still, to this day, has never had an accidental discharge. The first one on this set was the prop master and the second was a stunt man after Hannah informed him his gun was hot with blanks.

Hannah was hired on two positions on this film, which made it extremely difficult to focus on her job as an armorer. She fought for training, days to maintain weapons, and proper time to prepare for gunfire but ultimately was overruled by production and her department. The whole production set became unsafe due to various factors, including lack of safety meetings. This was not the fault of Hannah.

Hannah and her legal team will address more of these rumors and the whole incident in an upcoming statement next week.
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Offline Miclpea

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Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills cinematographer with prop gun.
« Reply #23 on: October 29, 2021, 09:05:51 AM »
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The armor speaks out, defending herself.
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Wow!


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Offline perc2100

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Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills cinematographer with prop gun.
« Reply #24 on: October 29, 2021, 11:56:47 AM »
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The armor speaks out, defending herself.
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I like this quote:
Quote
“Ultimately this set would never have been compromised if live ammo were not introduced,” said attorneys Jason Bowles and Robert Gorence in a statement.

That's _LITERALLY_ the armorer's job: to ensure that only the safe rounds of ammo are 'introduced' on a working set.
Like I've said, as we move into the finger-pointing stage of this tragedy, there are MANY fingers of blame to point at many people who failed here: the armorer, producers if they went cheap and didn't hire proper/experienced crewmembers, the AD for seemingly failing at his job by handing a loaded weapon to an actor w/out saying it was 'hot,' etc.  On a well-run set (reminder that the Assistant Director is typically the one who runs a working set), there are many different/redundant protocols in place so if _one_ person fails, others further down the line do not.  It will likely take a thorough investigation before we get down to the brass tacks of whom was at fault/most at fault in this tragedy: that again, resulted in the death of a crewmember.

Offline chocolateshake

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Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills cinematographer with prop gun.
« Reply #25 on: October 29, 2021, 03:15:02 PM »
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That's _LITERALLY_ the armorer's job: to ensure that only the safe rounds of ammo are 'introduced' on a working set.

Exactly.  That released statement doesn't makes sense to me.  It says that she and the prop master were the ones that controlled the guns.  They kept them locked up.  So she was one of two people that controlled those guns.  Isn't it her job to load the gun and thus know what it's loaded with?  The only way that can't be is that if they didn't have control of the guns.

Quote
Hannah and the prop master gained control over the guns and she never witnessed anyone shoot live rounds with these guns and nor would she permit that. They were locked up every night and at lunch and there’s no way a single one of them was unaccounted for or being shot by crew members.

Offline Andrew Costa Mesa

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Re: Alec Baldwin accidentally kills cinematographer with prop gun.
« Reply #26 on: October 29, 2021, 06:36:11 PM »
Hannah basically admitted she didn’t do her job.  She should also get a new lawyer.
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