Author Topic: Loki ***Spoilers***  (Read 4140 times)

Offline perc2100

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Re: Loki ***Spoilers***
« Reply #45 on: July 09, 2021, 08:16:55 AM »
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My favorite thing in this episode is that when the variants are sitting around drinking wine, kid Loki is drinking a Hi C juice box.
Not just any Hi-C juice, but Ecto Cooler: the tie-in Hi-C for GHOSTBUSTERS 2 (and later the series "The Real Ghostbusters" and then the 2016 GHOSTBUSTERS).  Kid Loki rocking the coolest Hi-C

Offline Michaelnaut

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Re: Loki ***Spoilers***
« Reply #46 on: July 10, 2021, 03:52:17 PM »
Now if I could only find that Loki/Variant jacket...but at least I'll be sporting this on my Teams calls ;)

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Re: Loki ***Spoilers***
« Reply #47 on: Today at 10:56:06 AM »

Offline Chris

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Re: Loki ***Spoilers***
« Reply #47 on: July 10, 2021, 06:51:15 PM »
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Now if I could only find that Loki/Variant jacket...but at least I'll be sporting this on my Teams calls ;)

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Im hoping that Marvel has official jackets at SDCC.

Offline chocolateshake

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Re: Loki ***Spoilers***
« Reply #48 on: July 14, 2021, 01:36:15 PM »
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So is the Man at the End of Time going to be...

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It's a variant!  Everyone's a variant.

A low key episode compared to the action from last week.

Offline perc2100

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Re: Loki ***Spoilers***
« Reply #49 on: July 14, 2021, 02:12:31 PM »
Well, the finale pulled off several things that shouldn't have worked, easily ended up being the best of the three Disney+ Marvel series so far, and delivered what feels like one of the more satisfying MCU conclusions.  With a caveat...

On its face, a finale that 1) introduces the big bad in the final episode while 2) having said big bad mostly give (yet another for the series) a massive info dump would normal yield frustration at best, if not outright ire.  But "Loki" ending with a much more traditional season-ending cliffhanger while promising "Loki will return in Season 2" really worked for me in an old-school TV way: even in an "I'm gonna be pissed having to wait to see the next chapter of this story" way  :P
This could've ended up being such a letdown of a season finale, but "He Who Remains" is so brilliantly performed by Jonathan Majors (if you haven't seen HBO's "Lovecraft Country" or Neftlix's DA FIVE BLOODZ, you _really_ need to check out this brilliant actor).  I was amused, enthralled, in awe, insert-your own-superlatives-here of his performance choices that I barely cared the realization that the season was going to end massively unresolved in most story aspects.

When 'He Who Remains' revealed he was originally from the 31st Century, my 19 year old & I knew we were seeing Kang the Conqueror.  As I've gotten older, I've mostly disregarded who's cast in what property so I'd forgotten Majors was already announced as cast as Kang in ANT-MAN AND THE WASP QUANTUMANIA as the main bad guy.  Kang is a character with a looooooong history in Marvel comics (and several names: the Pharaoh Rama-Tut in his debut w/Fantastic Four; Scarlet Centurion; Immortus; Iron Lad; etc) and I'll spare you all the (fairly arduous) breakdown of his history.  I think He Who Remains tells us all we need to know about him at this time: a time traveler with infinite variants that are each as/more deadly than the last.  His thing is kind of a "if you think I'm bad, I'm really trying to protect you from my other variants that are even worse/more dangerous than me!"  What's more fascinating than the comic history of Kang is how he's portrayed here by Majors.  His change of voice inflections, wild mannerisms, and literally chewing an apple while metaphorically chewing every dang last bit of scenery is an absolutely delight.  I'm not 100% sure how he (may/likely?) fit into DOCTOR STRANGE IN THE MULTIVERSE OF MADNESS, or how he'll play into Ant-Man's quantum realm, but I know I can't WAIT to see more of this performance in a substantial way!

And how about that ending?  Loki gained empathy in this 'alternate timeline' post-Battle of NYC in maybe a deeper way he did in RAGNAROK.  Not only that, he became trustworthy!  I think we realized Sylvie became a much Loki-esque Loki as the god(dess) of Mischief given how much she royally messed up everything by killing this version of He Who Remains thus creating all of the Multiverse branches (it was fun to see that visually play out literally after seeing The Ancient One describe it to Banner in ENDGAME): alas, while Loki gained the 'powers' of being trustworthy, Sylvie never did gain the powers of trust.  Sylvie could not believe that all that Kang 'stole' from her (a real life) was for the greater good, so she took her revenge, consequences for the universe(s) be damned.

And what's up with the TVA now?!  We may never know how Mobius and Ravonna worked out their differences, since Sylvie apparently changed the fabric of that multiverse: statues of Kang now adore the TVA offices and Mobius apparently lost all memories of who Loki even is.  The series ends with maybe Loki at his darkest point in the MCU so far: kind of 'trapped' in the TVA, no longer with his new BFF Mobius nor his companion Sylvie (the kiss between the two was kind of a nice touch, if for no other reason than it pays off the sweet moment between the two on Lamentis - they may in no way have a romantic connection, but they share a loving bond together due to their commonalities and journey together).  Add to that, Loki might be one of the only people around who know the immense dangers of what's transpired with Sylvie and Kang, as well as the potential dangers to come.  And now he's left with the realization of the dangers that may have already happened and fundamentally changed his reality.

If this feels entirely unsatisfying to you, I don't begrudge you: cliffhangers are _NEVER_ fun to wait through!  In an age where entire seasons are dropped at once and we can binge them in a day, many of us have grown impatient with having to wait.  If this ending were merely a segue into another future MCU film (as Disney+'s first two MCU series were), this would be unsatisfying.  As a mid-40's guy who has lived through way more than my fair share of season-ending cliffhangers ("Who Shot JR?!" being such a cultural touchstone, even if I never watched that soap opera series; or if you'd rather the more entertaining "Who Shot Mr. Burns?!" Simpsons cliffhanger), this doesn't fundamentally bug be or act as a deal-breaker.  This season did a nice job exploring themes of self-worth, personal growth and whatnot it was a legit joy for me to not see the climax devolve into yet another comic book movie mega fight.  "WandaVision" worked well for me, though I felt the finale was massively flawed; "Falcon and the Winter Soldier" had a myriad of problems from the get go and its finale was just as problematic as the rest of the series.  I'd put "Loki's" climax as one of the better climaxes in the MCU, though obviously there was little resolution, the end setup not only multiple films but a future season (or more seasons: please?!?!?!), and ended with an uber cliffhanger.  But this to me was a massively satisfying cliffhanger: one that I will gladly wait however long for a Season 2 to enjoy the further adventures of Loki, Mobius, the TVA, and whatever else is in store for us.


Offline perc2100

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Re: Loki ***Spoilers***
« Reply #50 on: July 14, 2021, 02:29:35 PM »
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It's a variant!  Everyone's a variant.

A low key episode compared to the action from last week.
And for me, at least in the golden-age of prestige TV, that's kinda the hallmark of the medium.  Think about "The Sopranos," as an example (the series that most experts will say kick-started the golden-age): a series that I'm currently revisiting in anticipation of the prequel film MANY SAINTS OF NEWARK (fun trivia I learned today, BTW, via the Italian movie poster: the Italian translation of 'Many Saints' = "Molti Santi" which is the name of the main character of the film who's Sopranos character Chris Multisanti's dad!) and am currently early in Season 3.  Often the biggest action/developments of the seasons occurred in the penultimate episode of the season:
* Season 1, when the attempt is made to whack Tony
* Season 2, when Richie was killed by Tony's sister
* Season 3, when Gloria's relationship w/Tony ends and Jackie Jr. robs the Executive Game thus ultimately sealing his fate (a LOT went on in the masterpiece S3 though, so Jackie's fate occurred the finale, though it was decided in 2nd to last)
* Season 5 (great bounce back from the disappointing S4) has the death of Adriana (though admittedly the finale here was also a banger with the fate of Tony B)
* Season 6a, when Vitto is killed after returning because he can't leave the mob life
* Season 6b (the last), is a BANGER, which ends with a lot of regulars/Capos from Tony's crew getting whacked by the NY mob

Heck, even the fairly recent 'The Good Place' finale was low key compared to the penultimate episode that resolved most of the story arcs.  I dig the low key 'release' that often is a season finale, though "Loki's" didn't have much story resolve as it sets up future movies + Season 2

Offline Chris

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Re: Loki ***Spoilers***
« Reply #51 on: July 14, 2021, 05:24:37 PM »
Gonna be random:

I REALLY wished that Wanda fractured the multiverse at the end of WV.  I'm glad I didn't get my wish because we got this show.

I have to say that I am enjoying the TV shows more than the movies.

Kang!  My first exposure to comics started with Time Trap in the Marvel Super Heroes Role Playing Game.  He was the villain.

Did they play the THX sound when they entered his chamber?

They never officially said who Sylvie is and I'm DYING to tell a friend.

Season 2!

Offline perc2100

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Re: Loki ***Spoilers***
« Reply #52 on: July 14, 2021, 06:01:03 PM »
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They never officially said who Sylvie is and I'm DYING to tell a friend.

Season 2!
I'm intrigued that there's a S2 in regards to "they never said who Sylvie is."  Like, did they do what they often do and take the name and whatnot from comics and go their own way as they so often do comics-movies; or with another season will they maybe explore the Sylvie from the comics?  Sylvie in "Loki" looked a lot more like the comic character than a Loki variant (ala hair, for example - though obviously Alligator Loki also doesn't look like Loki  :P ) so who knows. 

Also interesting: they didn't ever officially say the name "Kang."  The character was only referred to and credited as "He Who Remains" so I imagine once my parents, friends, and wife get around to seeing the ep within the next few days I'll be answers plenty of questions

Offline Chris

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Re: Loki ***Spoilers***
« Reply #53 on: July 14, 2021, 06:22:32 PM »
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I'm intrigued that there's a S2 in regards to "they never said who Sylvie is."  Like, did they do what they often do and take the name and whatnot from comics and go their own way as they so often do comics-movies; or with another season will they maybe explore the Sylvie from the comics?  Sylvie in "Loki" looked a lot more like the comic character than a Loki variant (ala hair, for example - though obviously Alligator Loki also doesn't look like Loki  :P ) so who knows. 

Also interesting: they didn't ever officially say the name "Kang."  The character was only referred to and credited as "He Who Remains" so I imagine once my parents, friends, and wife get around to seeing the ep within the next few days I'll be answers plenty of questions

When they said the conquerer i did the Matrix operator hands in the air touchdown thing when Neo did something great in the 2nd one.

Going random again:

I was also thinking Finding Nemo Crush righteous!  righteous! when they were travelling down the timesteam at the beginning.

Miss minutes scared me to death with the loud music jump scare.

I was also glad that Loki didn't die.  He's been the best villain so far.

Offline chocolateshake

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Re: Loki ***Spoilers***
« Reply #54 on: July 14, 2021, 11:12:31 PM »
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And what's up with the TVA now?!  We may never know how Mobius and Ravonna worked out their differences, since Sylvie apparently changed the fabric of that multiverse: statues of Kang now adore the TVA offices and Mobius apparently lost all memories of who Loki even is.

It's a different verse in the now released multiverse.  We know they can travel between multiverses.  That's how they go to branches to "reset" them.  It seems that killing He Who Remains allowed for multiple branches of even the TVA instead of resetting everything for a new multiverse war ending up with a new single sacred timeline.  Since in the verse Loki is in now, they are also experiencing the multiverse explosion of branches.  The branch that Loki came from should still be around.

Sylvie and Renslayer are the wild cards.  Sylvie is in the bolt hole at the end of time.  Renslayer is in her bolt hole.  I think that Renslayer is He Who Remains' fallback plan.  That's why he gave her those files instead of the ones she asked for.

I think that He Who Remains is a Kang but not a Conquerer.  He said that some of them had that name.  The way he talked about the war, it didn't sound like he was one of those doing the conquering.

Offline chocolateshake

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Re: Loki ***Spoilers***
« Reply #55 on: July 24, 2021, 09:27:51 AM »
Just as Loki is the best MCU TV series to date, it's episode of Assemble was the best of that to date.  It was distinctly unlike the previous episodes.  Instead of being a pretty normal behind the scenes, it was a little story.