Author Topic: 2012 scalping  (Read 10672 times)

Offline perc2100

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Re: 2012 scalping
« Reply #15 on: February 04, 2013, 02:44:32 PM »
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I didn't see any ID checks at all last year. All I got was one overzealous person when entering the exhibit floor on Preview Night. She insisted that the pro (one person in our group) had to use a different entrance at the other end of the hall. Instead he went to the next entrance and they let him in, no problem.  ::)

Last weekend I was at NAMM w/about 100k attendees: is that what you're talking about?  They're pretty vigilant about checking ID and it doesn't really slow the process down too much: you know they're going to do it, you have your ID ready to go and you show them when you go in.  Granted, they only checked going into the Convention Center (not at some of the other "secondary" sites), but CCI could do that as well: check going into the Convention Center, Hall H, & hotel ballrooms.  I really don't think it would be that big of a problem (a slight, minor one for sure, but maybe worth it to essentially put the nail in the coffin of scalping).
NAMM didn't use to check badges, and for awhile I would attend with other people's badge.  It was a joke, where you would introduce yourself to someone, they'd look at the name on the badge, and make a passing reference to the different name.  One year, a friend of mine got two badges and gave me one of his and we wondered the hall with the same names/cities on two badges.  Then NAMM went to random checks, which made it more difficult but not impossible.  Now it seems like they check EVERYONE (well, almost everyone: I didn't see Stevie Wonder get accosted to show his ID  :P )  CCI could go this route, and I really think the days of $400 Craigslist scalping would be a memory.

Offline perc2100

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Re: 2012 scalping
« Reply #16 on: February 04, 2013, 02:46:39 PM »
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Did see a young man accosted by the event security in 2012, entering the building with a female name on "his" badge. I attended a trade show last week where I was always asked to show ID with my badge before entry, but the wait was never really long to get into the show. Attendance to that show was estimated at 100k, so if they did start checking ID's it wouldn't be to much of a headache.

Ha; a couple years ago someone I know bought a badge off of a female, with a fairly obvious female name.  No security ever batted an eye, though some of the exhibitors made a few comments.

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Re: 2012 scalping
« Reply #17 on: Today at 02:45:21 PM »

Offline perc2100

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Re: 2012 scalping
« Reply #17 on: February 04, 2013, 02:50:50 PM »
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Never did get stopped and asked to see my ID last year. Last year they sent out the email a couple weeks before saying they were going to start checking IDs stop fight scalping.

No one I went with at Comic-Con got asked for ID by security.  We all did, however, get asked ID when we were buying something from Hasbro or Mattel (can't remember which).  My bro-in-law got checked Thursday morning, I got checked Sunday.  We were joking about how the toy company seemed far more vigilant that CCI or security

Offline perc2100

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Re: 2012 scalping
« Reply #18 on: February 04, 2013, 03:01:45 PM »
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Well yes, and that's why making up 4 names and buying badges online would do no good.  You need people's faces and ID's to pick them up, so in order for this to work you'd have to know that you have those people in it when you buy the badges.
A couple things:
1) USUALLY you get carded when picking up a badge.  I've found if you're jovial and polite to the volunteers they might not ask for ID.  I've actually not been asked for ID the last two years (though I go with my son, and I have zero intentions of scalping)
2) you can pick up your badge THEN scalp it.  You can even pick up four badges with the same name from different booths and then scalp all four.  If you have different addresses but same name, that's all the people really look at: make sure name on badge matches name on ID.
3) if you're a pro, or getting a guest badge from a pro, it's pretty easy to scalp (at least it has been previously).  A pro can pick up their guest's badge for them, with no ID from the guest needed



Quote
Same here.  Another thing is, if someone wanted to scalp they'd have to know the registration process pretty well.  For someone who doesn't care about this type of thing and just wants to resell, that's a LOT of trouble.
That's true: IMO the beauty of the CCI registration process is there are no preferred vendors, or customers who get early access (as there often are with Ticketbastard).  It's not exactly completely random, but it's not super far off.  I think scalpers are more likely:
* someone who sees what they want on Wed-Thursday or something, and sells their 4-Day badge on Friday or something to make a buck (a volunteer did this a few years ago with their badge and a friend of mine)
* a pro, or a guest of a pro, who wants to make a buck
* someone who gets a comp badge through their work, has little interest in Comic-Con other than knowing it's a huge deal, and wants to make a buck

Offline karatekid

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Re: 2012 scalping
« Reply #19 on: February 04, 2013, 10:15:40 PM »
If there is money to be made, people will find a way to exploit and do it. Comic Con is not immune to it. In fact, there are many folks who feel there is a great evil when people "scalp" comic con items be it tickets. (I know it's too early to start that conversation and you all know I've already had my dialogue with noted flippers).

I may be a bit in minority here, but my thoughts are you do the best you can to minimize and curb scalping and then at a certain point let the chips fall where they do. Every popular event gets scalped from music concerts to sport events. I personally have paid "extra" for scalped tickets, but it was my choice. I could have tried to get those tickets myself but once I didn't, I was just happy to be able to get them and if I am willing to pay more than face value because it's worth it to me, then that should be my prerogative.

For me, my brother in-law needs a Friday badge because that's the one day we both don't have. We're going to be fighting and stressing to get one but if I could get one today, guaranteed, and pay say $25 or so above face value for it, to me that's worth it. I'd rather pay that than stress, spend hours trying to get it and potentially be disappointed.

So to me "scalping" comes off so negative, but if you've ever really wanted to go to an event but somehow did not get tickets for it, "scalping" is not so bad. 
« Last Edit: February 05, 2013, 09:57:11 AM by karatekid »
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Offline Transmute Jun

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Re: 2012 scalping
« Reply #20 on: February 05, 2013, 06:30:04 AM »
I think you're getting at the real point, Karatekid. It's pretty clear that the market is working inefficiently, which is why the scalpers exist in the first place. The scalpers take a lot of risk and they get compensated for it, and people who might not otherwise get tickets can purchase them from the scalpers. I also agree that under the current circumstances, you can't stop scalpers completely.

The real problem is that Comic Con tickets are underpriced. Yes we all moan about the cost and how much the price has increased, but if they were more expensive (say $100 per day, instead of $40-ish per day) would they really sell out so quickly? In that scenario, the scalpers would be gone because there would be no need for their services.

I'm not sure how many people are interested in *that* cure for scalpers...


Offline Khaaaaaaanh!!!

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Re: 2012 scalping
« Reply #21 on: February 05, 2013, 07:11:53 AM »
increase in prices may impact the juniors or young adults who have less funds but won't be big impact on others. as mentioned before by others, people are willing to spend so much on hotels, food, exclusives, etc that they'll pay the badge price even if it's 2-3 times more. part of reason why I don't see drastic price increases. more likely to see improved security and better countermeasures to combat scalping.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2013, 10:14:52 AM by kvthai »
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Offline karatekid

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Re: 2012 scalping
« Reply #22 on: February 05, 2013, 10:05:37 AM »
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The real problem is that Comic Con tickets are underpriced. Yes we all moan about the cost and how much the price has increased, but if they were more expensive (say $100 per day, instead of $40-ish per day) would they really sell out so quickly? In that scenario, the scalpers would be gone because there would be no need for their services.

I'm not sure how many people are interested in *that* cure for scalpers...

I agree there is certainly an economics supply and demand component here and it goes to an extent of what I raised with the "help a friend's brother's cousin's nephew" deal ... at a certain price point you will definitely begin to move the scalpers out because of the cost and also at a certain point move out the more "Oh sure, you got me a ticket, I'll go" fan and start moving more to the die hard true fan.

I do believe there is an ideal price that can find that balance ... minimize scalping and still let a more casual fan go but allowing for the most die hard fan to not be shut out. Certainly $100 would "probably" do it. For families, you can always keep junior prices low and kids are always free!

Having said all that, it would not surprise me if ticket prices bump up some this year and next too.
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Offline perc2100

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Re: 2012 scalping
« Reply #23 on: February 05, 2013, 02:55:04 PM »
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So to me "scalping" comes off so negative, but if you've ever really wanted to go to an event but somehow did not get tickets for it, "scalping" is not so bad.

I guess it's only negative in the sense that you paid more than face value for a pass, and by doing so you're perpetuating scalping.  It is a vicious circle, and I understand that if you didn't buy that over-priced badge someone else likely would have.

Offline karatekid

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Re: 2012 scalping
« Reply #24 on: February 05, 2013, 03:08:44 PM »
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I guess it's only negative in the sense that you paid more than face value for a pass, and by doing so you're perpetuating scalping.  It is a vicious circle, and I understand that if you didn't buy that over-priced badge someone else likely would have.

Scalping tickets especially, has been around for a long long time right? It's even fairly mainstream ... what is Stub Hub or check eBay for tickets to some event. It's something that is here, so in a perfect ideal world it wouldn't be but it is, so you do prudence to minimize and deter it but at a certain point let it be. Comic Con is huge and it might be the holy grail for us, but it is just one of thousands of supply and demand deals that incur these same issues ... Super Bowl, World Series, Justin Bieber concerts (sorry), Wicked theater, Nike Air Jordan shoes, etc. etc.

To me, I would do my due diligence and best to try to get whatever it is but if I'm shut out what do I do? I could sit there and be mad and curse the world and cry that I did not get a ticket but at least with "scalping" I could still get one and go. All be it at a cost but at least I could go and if that makes me happy and is worth it, it's not that bad is it? So I say ... let the badges be scalped!  >:D

 
« Last Edit: February 05, 2013, 03:11:39 PM by karatekid »
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Offline perc2100

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Re: 2012 scalping
« Reply #25 on: February 05, 2013, 03:09:02 PM »
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The real problem is that Comic Con tickets are underpriced. Yes we all moan about the cost and how much the price has increased, but if they were more expensive (say $100 per day, instead of $40-ish per day) would they really sell out so quickly? In that scenario, the scalpers would be gone because there would be no need for their services.

I don't know; I think price is what CCI's fans dictate, not scalpers.  I won't necessarily say that prices are "too low," but I also don't think they're too high.  I would pay a bit more for my badge, but I don't think high ticket prices would cancel out scalpers.  The only thing, in that regard, that would eliminate scalping is if the prices are so high the event does not sell out: I don't think anyone really wants that (at least, no one short of those of us who would LOVE less people on the exhibit hall floor :P ).

I honestly think the most efficient/less painful approach to curbing scalping is what I've said in other posts: check picture ID of EVERYONE before the enter the Convention Center, Hall H, or other hotels that offer programming.  Once NAMM started doing that for their winter show they pretty much killed any shenanigans from those unable to legitimately get a badge to the show.  There is a minor inconvenience at best showing your ID to security to get in, but everyone knows it's a part of the show and it's really not a big deal at all.
** For reference to those who don't know: NAMM is a music industry show where music vendors show off their upcoming products to music dealers.  There are a TON of industry people who attend every year, from the manager at a Guitar Center to Paul McCartney.  It is closed to the general public, so the only way to get a badge is to work for a music store that is a member of NAMM, own a small business that is a member of NAMM, no someone from those two categories, be an artist that gets a badge from a company that is a member of NAMM, for example if you are a drummer endorsed by Yamaha Yamaha might give you a badge in return for you hanging out at their booth to answer questions, or be a music teacher who pays a nominal fee

If CCI had a strict "show us photo ID any time you enter Comic-Con buildings" policy, it would be pointless to buy a badge and try to scalp it because everyone would know you couldn't get in unless your badge matched the name on your photo ID.  That really is a fairly simple policy, not-too-difficult to implement, and would, for the most part, end Comic-Con badge scalping.

AND, it would suck for those who don't get a badge legitimately and don't mind paying several hundred dollars more for a badge.  Sometimes, I wonder if CCI is really super concerned about scalping, and it's more just a show to try to please its patrons ("we're looking out for you, and trying to help you not overpay for our badges").  It makes for good headlines when your convention is so popular people are dropping $500 on a $150 badge.  With NAMM we're talking about disrupting business, as well as the (kinda outside) possibility of someone leaking pics or specs of a product to be released over the summer 6 months early.  Comic-Con is all about the glitz of hype, so maybe they don't really care about scalping.  I personally don't care either way, as I've mentioned I've had good friends go to Comic-Con thanks to overpaying for a badge from a scalper.  If someone wants to pay a lot of money for a Comic-Con badge, let 'em.  Heck, I might "have" to resort to that someday!

Offline Transmute Jun

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Re: 2012 scalping
« Reply #26 on: February 05, 2013, 05:53:17 PM »
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I don't know; I think price is what CCI's fans dictate, not scalpers.  I won't necessarily say that prices are "too low," but I also don't think they're too high.  I would pay a bit more for my badge, but I don't think high ticket prices would cancel out scalpers.  The only thing, in that regard, that would eliminate scalping is if the prices are so high the event does not sell out: I don't think anyone really wants that (at least, no one short of those of us who would LOVE less people on the exhibit hall floor :P ).

I disagree. If you're looking purely at supply and demand, the prices are too low for the badges. What would be the 'right' amount? The badge price that is so high that badges do not sell out immediately, but they do sell out, perhaps a week or two before the show begins. In that scenario, anyone who wants to go is able to get a badge, and there's no need for scalpers. However in that case, the people who 'want' to go become the people who can 'afford' to go. CCI has purposely chosen not to pursue this avenue (even though it's what a for-profit business would do) in an effort to make itself more 'accessible'. That sounds great, but the low prices on the badges are what allow such high demand, which is why we all stress out when badges go on sale.

I like your idea of checking ID at all entrances, but I'm not sure it's practical. They would need a lot more security in order to process people efficiently enough, particularly at the beginning of the day. That would necessitate an increase in badge costs as well.

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Re: 2012 scalping
« Reply #27 on: February 05, 2013, 08:39:49 PM »
Comic Con is so affordable compared to the other cons I go to.  I've attended a couple of Supernatural conventions and even the cheaper seats can be $50-70 a day.  if you want to sit in, like, the first 15 rows you are looking at $500-700.  Front row can reach into the thousands (not even kidding, I know someone who spent $2000 on a front row seat).  And those prices only get you a chair and admission to a karaoke party.  God forbid if you want to get an autograph or a picture or a meet & greet.  I had a friend fly in from Australia and she estimated that she spent $10,000 on her trip, not including airfare.  It's insane.

Needless to say, I sit in the cheap seats.  I'd be really sad if Comic Con only catered to the rich and I'm glad it's accessible to all of us geeks.  That said, I'd probably be willing to pay a little more.   But certainly not Supernatural con prices.

Offline karatekid

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Re: 2012 scalping
« Reply #28 on: February 05, 2013, 09:05:44 PM »
I also want to make a point that may not be very obvious in my postings ... I do not believe "scalping" is even an ounce of why badges are so hard to come by. It is NOT the scalpers that are causing this excessive demand. It's already there. So I don't have a problem with "scalping." It goes back to my scenario, let's just say you tried your best, did everything right and yet still got shut out of badges, what are you going to do? Be mad, cry? Say "oh well next year?" I believe in that scenario, any one of us would at least consider the "scalping" option. I'll be honest and say I'd do it. I won't speak for everyone, but if you really were in that scenario, you really wouldn't think about it? Wouldn't it be at least good to know you could possibly have that option?   
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Offline EnglishmanInSanDiego

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2012 scalping
« Reply #29 on: February 06, 2013, 01:21:15 AM »
There's enough Volunteers wanting roles during Con, would a two-tier ID check ease some of the ticket checking burden? A more stringent level at the main entrance with Security, more random ID checks from Volunteers at the inner doors?

I believe that scalping for events is a denial for those truly wanting to attend, the buying of badges by people who don't care for an event purely for profit to sell to those who weren't willing to prepare effectively first time round. Yes, that person who buys the badge from a scalper (at an overly inflated price and with the risk of being denied entry if checked) may be a 'true believer' but, with an event as in demand as Comic-Con, there are always going to be people left at the door.

I'd personally like to see photos of the buyer, printed onto the badge along with the details, so security can see with a glance if the face matches the owner - but this would involve an investment in whole new machines and setup. So, for now, I'd like to see more checks on the door, personally.


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