Author Topic: Any word on 2021?  (Read 3862 times)

Offline dville

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Any word on 2021?
« on: September 29, 2020, 08:27:23 AM »
I just read that Disney Expo is pushing to 2022.  Has anyone heard any hints on what SDCC might be thinking about doing for 2021?  Usually it's about that time for some type of announcement.
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Offline TeamKiLL3R

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Re: Any word on 2021?
« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2020, 08:30:31 AM »
I haven’t heard anything. My worry is that they have a sold out show and realistically to have the event next year they probably need to reduce capacity.


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Re: Any word on 2021?
« Reply #2 on: Today at 01:29:04 PM »

Offline sessionka

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Re: Any word on 2021?
« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2020, 09:23:38 AM »
I'm thinking we won't hear anything until december at the earliest and early next year at the latest.  That still gives them plenty of time, plus hotels are blacked out for that week.
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Offline perc2100

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Re: Any word on 2021?
« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2020, 09:55:05 AM »
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I just read that Disney Expo is pushing to 2022.  Has anyone heard any hints on what SDCC might be thinking about doing for 2021?  Usually it's about that time for some type of announcement.
It's still way too early, I think.  Props to Disney for being (WAY) proactive.  I suspect CCI may be closely monitoring the LA Comic-Con to see how that might go.  _IF_ there is an SDCCI 2021 (and if I'm being honest, it's probably 50/50 at best as of now), I suspect capacity for panels & Exhibit Hall will be incredibly reduced.

If we want SDCCI 2021, we need to get everyone we know to take social distancing & mask wearing incredibly serious right now to rapidly reduce the US numbers.  San Diego county has been in a relatively good place lately (after 1) Labor Day spikes and 2) SD State U. being a little cavalier with their in-person class offerings that led to a HUGE uptick in county positive numbers).  Hopefully we can keep it going both here and nation-wide (nationwide is a mess, with only about a third of the states not spiking).  We're entering a dangerous time, with flu season about to kick in/complicate things.  I sincerely hope USA can turn things around, and I really hope/wish/pray/whatever that the incredibly stubborn/selfish/stupid people defiantly not wearing a mask get a clue.

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Offline alyssa

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Re: Any word on 2021?
« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2020, 04:00:50 PM »
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I haven’t heard anything. My worry is that they have a sold out show and realistically to have the event next year they probably need to reduce capacity.


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interesting point!
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Offline chocolateshake

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Re: Any word on 2021?
« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2020, 05:54:56 PM »
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My worry is that they have a sold out show and realistically to have the event next year they probably need to reduce capacity.

This is one of the reason I thought it didn't make sense for them to push off tickets.  Too much is unknown.  The likelihood is that the next SDCC will not be the same as the last SDCC.  The cleanest thing to have done would have been to issue refunds and then held another sale when the time comes.

Offline Devorah

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Re: Any word on 2021?
« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2020, 08:19:02 AM »
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This is one of the reason I thought it didn't make sense for them to push off tickets.  Too much is unknown.  The likelihood is that the next SDCC will not be the same as the last SDCC.  The cleanest thing to have done would have been to issue refunds and then held another sale when the time comes.

Maybe, but they made a lot of fans happy when they decided to roll them over. They can always refund later if they have to, but who knows...maybe they had enough returns to keep the head count down to acceptable levels. A girl can dream right? :)

Offline perc2100

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Re: Any word on 2021?
« Reply #7 on: October 06, 2020, 09:46:29 AM »
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This is one of the reason I thought it didn't make sense for them to push off tickets.  Too much is unknown.  The likelihood is that the next SDCC will not be the same as the last SDCC.  The cleanest thing to have done would have been to issue refunds and then held another sale when the time comes.
While I tend to agree, I suspect this was essentially a lose-lose situation: either they issued automatic refunds with the understanding of 'we have no idea what the future holds, and we think it's best to refund and give everyone who bought badges priority for the same badges in 2021 IF we're able to hold it' or 'we can roll everything over and hope for the best: who's with us!"
I think the move to try to appease their fans, San Diego, hotels and local businesses, etc. with the goal of having SDCCI 2021 close to normal wasn't necessarily bad.  With the way our Federal Government has epically mishandled containing the pandemic, I find it difficult to believe SDCCI will be even remotely close to normal IF they're able to hold it at all.

BUT, it's still relatively early so we'll see what happens.  At this point I'm still teaching virtually for at least another month an change, most movie theaters are at significantly diminished capacity (not that there's much content to distribute), etc.  Most schools in the county are planning reopening at some capacity over the next month or two (in our district Elementary schools started opening this week, and high schools, at least, are planning small-group activities to 'test the waters,' so to speak).  CA in general, and San Diego particularly, have been doing pretty good containing things.  In San Diego, there are some pockets of 'scary' when it comes to COVID, but for the most part we're doing OK (with the exception of when San Diego State U tried to push too many in-person classes and almost single-handedly put the county back on the 'Watch List'). 

Maybe I'm thinking more pessimistic, and maybe things will calm down enough.  We'll have a clearer picture around the December holidays, I think: if we as a nation can be smart during the more dangerous beginnings of flu season maybe there's a chance - if not, and things blow up as some experts are dreading/expecting, then we'll at least know where we stand going into 2021.

Offline Michaelnaut

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Re: Any word on 2021?
« Reply #8 on: October 06, 2020, 02:48:59 PM »
I think them allowing the rollover from this year really puts them in a place to handle when they are ready to have the next con (whenever that is) at speed.  It's already pretty much sold out, I would think that the chances of them having a badge sale for SDCC'21 is very very low, if not nil, and all peeps really need to worry about is hotelpocalypse.  Easiest way for them to address, instead of doling out refunds each year, then spinning up another badge sale, then refunds again if it can't be made, and that cycle happening.

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Offline hikanteki

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Re: Any word on 2021?
« Reply #9 on: October 08, 2020, 09:42:22 PM »
I see no advantages to automatically refunding everyone. They’ll lose the cash on hand (and possibly risk go under), people who scored badges will be upset and they’ll have to answer to them, and they’ll have to do another badge sale. SDCC sales are a mess for everyone involved, sure there’s a possibility they may have to refund everyone at some point but that’s not certain yet so it’s best to hold off until they’re sure they have to. They can just refund people who don’t want to go anymore. On the other hand, if they refund everyone now and then find out in 2022 they can do the event as normal, they only created a hassle for themselves. (WonderCon sales are a completely different story, it made sense to automatically refund those.)

I don’t buy the idea of a reduced capacity SDCC, as I’ve mentioned before I think we are more likely to get another canceled SDCC before a reduced one. If they don’t allow a 135,000-person event, they’re not going to allow a 60,000-person one...and they already have a 60,000 person event, WonderCon. If they have to test out an event with reduced capacity or at a different time of year, it would make sense to call that event WonderCon.
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Offline chocolateshake

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Re: Any word on 2021?
« Reply #10 on: October 09, 2020, 02:05:24 PM »
I good rule of thumb when running a business is not to sell products or services when you are unsure about how much it will cost to provide those goods.  That's the situation CCI is in with regards to SDCC.  Too much is unknown for them to know.

Fortunately CCI is not in a short of cash situation.  They planned for something like this.  They have the reserves to ride out a con that goes awry.  Refunding would not have put them at risk.  As reported, one reason they delayed officially canceling 2020 was financial.  They needed the time to get out of contracts without penalty and for insurance.  I don't think canceling this year used up those reserves that they have saved up.  This year didn't count as the one con they could absorb.  They might have to use those reserves to buffer out the next SDCC if the cost per person is higher than the price of the tickets that have already been sold.

There's nothing that says that SDCC has to have an attendance of 135,000.  It hasn't always been 135,000.  The world has changed.  The organizations that adapt will survive, those that don't wont.  I think the people waiting for a future SDCC to be the same as the last SDCC will be waiting for a very long time.

Offline hikanteki

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Re: Any word on 2021?
« Reply #11 on: October 09, 2020, 11:04:21 PM »
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I good rule of thumb when running a business is not to sell products or services when you are unsure about how much it will cost to provide those goods.  That's the situation CCI is in with regards to SDCC.  Too much is unknown for them to know.

Another good rule of thumb when running a business is not to waste unnecessary money or resources. They didn't sell badges being unsure about how much it would cost. The situation changed after they sold badges, and they're stuck with the consequences (credit card fees, labor and organization already used for the sale) that can't be reversed with a mass refund. In fact, a mass refund would use up more labor. With credit card processors, fees are commonly 3-4% or higher. Certain fees are able to be refunded within a time period (often 120 days) but we were already past that when the lockdowns made big events an uncertainty. (But WonderCon sales would have still been within this time period.)  3-4% of a $300 badge is $10, multiply that by 100,000 attendees, and that's 1 million dollars they're out. If CCI figures out at a later point that it would cost too much per badge charged to run the next event, they can initiate refunds at that time and prepare to do another sale...but it's not a good idea to lock in the loss of resources before they're completely sure.

Quote
Fortunately CCI is not in a short of cash situation.  They planned for something like this.  They have the reserves to ride out a con that goes awry.  Refunding would not have put them at risk.  As reported, one reason they delayed officially canceling 2020 was financial.  They needed the time to get out of contracts without penalty and for insurance.  I don't think canceling this year used up those reserves that they have saved up.  This year didn't count as the one con they could absorb.  They might have to use those reserves to buffer out the next SDCC if the cost per person is higher than the price of the tickets that have already been sold.

I'm glad they are not short of cash. I don't think this year used up their reserves either. But just because they have reserves doesn't mean they're going to want to use them as a first resort. The liquid funds from 135,000 returned SDCC badges isn't something to take lightly. I don't think they took it lightly either, which I suspect factored into their decision to roll over badges instead of refunding them.

Quote
There's nothing that says that SDCC has to have an attendance of 135,000.  It hasn't always been 135,000.  The world has changed.  The organizations that adapt will survive, those that don't wont.  I think the people waiting for a future SDCC to be the same as the last SDCC will be waiting for a very long time.

Never said there was anything saying it has to be 135,000 or that the next SDCC has to be the same as the last one. Just saying that I don't see any situation where a reduced capacity of ~50-60% (as those figures have been floated on this board) will solve anything in terms of coronavirus, and therefore it isn't a realistic scenario. If distancing standards are still in effect, then a 60,000-person con isn't going to be allowed just like a 135,000-person isn't. That was my point. But in any case, I don't think we'll get SDCC back until we get big events back. Maybe we will be waiting for a very long time.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2020, 11:40:11 PM by hikanteki »
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Offline chocolateshake

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Re: Any word on 2021?
« Reply #12 on: October 10, 2020, 01:19:09 AM »
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Another good rule of thumb when running a business is not to waste unnecessary money or resources. They didn't sell badges being unsure about how much it would cost. The situation changed after they sold badges, and they're stuck with the consequences (credit card fees, labor and organization already used for the sale) that can't be reversed with a mass refund. In fact, a mass refund would use up more labor. With credit card processors, fees are commonly 3-4% or higher. Certain fees are able to be refunded within a time period (often 120 days) but we were already past that when the lockdowns made big events an uncertainty. (But WonderCon sales would have still been within this time period.)  3-4% of a $300 badge is $10, multiply that by 100,000 attendees, and that's 1 million dollars they're out. If CCI figures out at a later point that it would cost too much per badge charged to run the next event, they can initiate refunds at that time and prepare to do another sale...but it's not a good idea to lock in the loss of resources before they're completely sure.

That's the point.  The situation changed.  The price charged is probably not going to match how much it will cost now.  They don't know how much it will cost for the next SDCC.  How can they?

As for fees, that depends on the payment processor.  Some will not refund the fees, others will.  PayPal for one no longer does.  Square on the other hand makes the merchant completely whole as long as they process the refund within 1 year.  They refund the original fee.  Which brings up time limits.  By waiting too long, refunds can no longer be processed.  For PP I believe it's 6 months.  For Square it's 1 year.  Once outside this period, refunds can no longer be processed.  Even though PP doesn't return the original fee, they do not charge a refund fee.  Once outside the refund period, then a "refund" will have to be processed as another original charge.  Thus incurring another fee.  Doubling the cost.  So if fees are a concern then refunding would have saved money.  By the time it was officially canceled, it was pretty clear that this pandemic wouldn't be over any time soon.

100,000+ people don't buy 4 day badges.  There's not enough room for 100,000+ people to show up everyday.  100,000+ is the attendance across the entire con.  Many people only buy a badge for one day.  Not to mention the volunteer badges and the comp badges.  So the fee cost is not as high as your calculation.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2020, 01:30:44 AM by chocolateshake »

Offline sefton42

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Re: Any word on 2021?
« Reply #13 on: October 10, 2020, 01:22:12 AM »
I read that CCI had the reserves if a show didn’t happen one year.  Two would be more difficult.  This year they lost two shows, since Wondercon was canceled.  Wondercon 2021 is set for March, and that’s far more dubious timing than SDCC in July.  By next July, that will mean CCI will have lost 3 shows; if they also lose SDCC next year, that’s probably more than CCI can absorb financially.

Offline chocolateshake

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Re: Any word on 2021?
« Reply #14 on: October 10, 2020, 01:38:44 AM »
I think that means that CCI has the reserves to cover the cost of comic-con if things go completely off the rails and they don't get any revenue.  Like if they had to cancel comic-con the night before it opened and they had to refund everyone.  Canceling SDCC and Wondercon this year didn't come close to that.  By reports, they were able to get out of contracts without penalty so I don't think canceling Wondercon or SDCC this year cost them very much.  So I still consider them at 0 shows canceled as far as their reserves go.