Author Topic: Fraudulant badges? Anyone know where to report it?  (Read 1169 times)

Offline nootheroptions

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Re: Fraudulant badges? Anyone know where to report it?
« Reply #30 on: July 06, 2022, 01:24:43 PM »
Those are actions taken post sale.  It doesn't do anything other than ensuring after the main sale that they are covered.  A "lifetime ban" doesn't do much when all you have to do is use a friends address and your middle name to get around it.  Literally every major sporting event is non transferable, yet they are all sold on secondary markets.  That's not done because they care about fans, they're trying to protect their own investments.  They don't do much to stop people from buying multiples in the first place.  They stop third party sites?  Why is there tons of listings on Stubhub one of the biggest resell brokers around? 

Here's a five year old post from a Stubhub employee saying that basically they don't care what vendors say (NYCC though) and they havn't found it to be an issue in the past that the badges were tagged non transferable.   

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I don't think there's much to show they *do* care, because they take the same actions every other venue does. At the end of the day it's a business, they want to make money.   

Offline semigeekgirl

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Re: Fraudulant badges? Anyone know where to report it?
« Reply #31 on: July 06, 2022, 01:33:16 PM »
But for most conventions you CAN resell tickets, although you often have to go through the convention itself to do it (i.e. NYCC and Lyte). And that is definitely so that they can control the market/make more money.

But CCI has no permitted way to resell badges, and they are a registered non-profit organization whose stated mission includes bringing comics and comics-adjacent art forms to as many people as possible. I'm sure they'd like to have more operating cash, but profit is literally not their motive.

Their enforcement isn't perfect, and they don't have sophisticated systems in place to ferret out all the unscrupulous people who flout the rules for their own profit, because that costs manpower and money (both of which CCI is usually short on). But that doesn't indicate to me that they don't care.

Offline nootheroptions

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Re: Fraudulant badges? Anyone know where to report it?
« Reply #32 on: July 06, 2022, 01:44:10 PM »
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But for most conventions you CAN resell tickets, although you often have to go through the convention itself to do it (i.e. NYCC and Lyte). And that is definitely so that they can control the market/make more money.

But CCI has no permitted way to resell badges, and they are a registered non-profit organization whose stated mission includes bringing comics and comics-adjacent art forms to as many people as possible. I'm sure they'd like to have more operating cash, but profit is literally not their motive.

Their enforcement isn't perfect, and they don't have sophisticated systems in place to ferret out all the unscrupulous people who flout the rules for their own profit, because that costs manpower and money (both of which CCI is usually short on). But that doesn't indicate to me that they don't care.

You don't need a high tech system in place, queue it literally has built in functionality around flagging suspect activity.  It's not turned on for either the hotel sale or the general badge sale.   Also the non-profit status of Comic-con doesn't mean much.  The NFL was a non profit up until 2015 since the 40s.  It just means their primary goal isn't to generate profit, not that there is no goal to generate profit.  You can be sure they still are looking at how much they make, especially post COVID but I don't want to digress too much.

Honestly I am all for limiting scalpers and feel free to report them.  I just don't see anything being done when sites like Stubhub don't really seem interested in cooperating.  I don't want to argue, I just am not on the same page is all. 
« Last Edit: July 06, 2022, 02:03:20 PM by nootheroptions »

Offline chocolateshake

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Re: Fraudulant badges? Anyone know where to report it?
« Reply #33 on: July 06, 2022, 03:12:43 PM »
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A "lifetime ban" doesn't do much when all you have to do is use a friends address and your middle name to get around it.

As Transmute Jun pointed out, it does when you lose your comic-con account and thus returning registration.

Offline stl_ben

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Re: Fraudulant badges? Anyone know where to report it?
« Reply #34 on: July 06, 2022, 07:56:24 PM »
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As Transmute Jun pointed out, it does when you lose your comic-con account and thus returning registration.
When you have as many accounts as a professional ticket seller has they have no problem having plenty of other accounts / plenty of log ins so when its time for either sale they get through no problem.  Think of it as buying groups, but for one person x100.

Offline Mel

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Re: Fraudulant badges? Anyone know where to report it?
« Reply #35 on: July 06, 2022, 09:08:23 PM »
CCI cares more than you think. They take their mission and promise very seriously. All the people that run it are lifelong nerds who have spent their lives with the organization and started as attendees. Their insular nature and slow to change ways are symptoms of that. They don't like letting outsiders have any kind of control. And they REALLY do not like people scalping badges and taking advantage of fans and the organization.

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Offline chocolateshake

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Re: Fraudulant badges? Anyone know where to report it?
« Reply #36 on: July 06, 2022, 11:47:39 PM »
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When you have as many accounts as a professional ticket seller has they have no problem having plenty of other accounts / plenty of log ins so when its time for either sale they get through no problem.  Think of it as buying groups, but for one person x100.

SDCC's solution for that is that they don't just ban you, they ban everyone in your buying group.  It'll just hurt x100 if it's a buying group of 100 alternate identities.

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You can also be banned from ebay.  PayPal actively bans people if they sell prohibited items.  While SDCC and ebay might not ban you for life, PayPal will and they really mean it.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2022, 11:55:46 PM by chocolateshake »

Offline nootheroptions

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Re: Fraudulant badges? Anyone know where to report it?
« Reply #37 on: July 07, 2022, 06:11:11 AM »
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SDCC's solution for that is that they don't just ban you, they ban everyone in your buying group.  It'll just hurt x100 if it's a buying group of 100 alternate identities.

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You can also be banned from ebay.  PayPal actively bans people if they sell prohibited items.  While SDCC and ebay might not ban you for life, PayPal will and they really mean it.

Too much paranoia floating around here. 

It take's like 5 seconds to make a spare account.  And 100 identities wouldn't be tied together anyway? You'd ban 4 at most in a given run because that's all that was on the order.  Even per that reddit link you sent, they could participate in open reg so it wasn't even a ban just a cancellation. 

Paypal isn't banning anyone for selling tickets, especially not since they're associated directly with eBay anymore.  Ebay also isn't banning you unless you are a many time multiple offender.  I'd know, I've had stuff pulled multiple times before on eBay and my accounts still intact.   

Offline chocolateshake

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Re: Fraudulant badges? Anyone know where to report it?
« Reply #38 on: July 07, 2022, 10:25:52 AM »
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It take's like 5 seconds to make a spare account.  And 100 identities wouldn't be tied together anyway? You'd ban 4 at most in a given run because that's all that was on the order.

As discussed in that Reddit thread, like Meta and PayPal, SDCC only allows for one account per person.  Like Meta and PayPal, SDCC actively tries to identify duplicate accounts and deletes them.  They even said as much in the violation letter they sent out to that person "all your memberships have been cancelled."

"Only one Member ID is required per person. Please do not attempt to create multiple Member ID accounts."
"Multiple registrations will be deleted."
"SDCC will periodically review all Member ID accounts, and if duplicates are found, they will be automatically deleted."

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Even per that reddit link you sent, they could participate in open reg so it wasn't even a ban just a cancellation. 

As per that violation letter.  The current year's badges are cancelled.  The violator is banned from attending the following year.  After that they can participate in open registration again.

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Paypal isn't banning anyone for selling tickets, especially not since they're associated directly with eBay anymore.  Ebay also isn't banning you unless you are a many time multiple offender.  I'd know, I've had stuff pulled multiple times before on eBay and my accounts still intact.   

PayPal does ban people for transacting restricted items.  If you read the countless posts about "I've been permanently limited, I didn't do anything wrong!".  Right after checking if someone is 18 and over, the next question is whether they transacted a prohibited item.  The reason PayPal may give you is "Some of your products or services are in violation of the PayPal Acceptable Use Policy and you can no longer use PayPal".

Offline f22raptor

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Re: Fraudulant badges? Anyone know where to report it?
« Reply #39 on: July 07, 2022, 11:02:21 AM »
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PayPal does ban people for transacting restricted items.  If you read the countless posts about "I've been permanently limited, I didn't do anything wrong!".  Right after checking if someone is 18 and over, the next question is whether they transacted a prohibited item.  The reason PayPal may give you is "Some of your products or services are in violation of the PayPal Acceptable Use Policy and you can no longer use PayPal".

That is a broad statement used to justify a false narrative. I can assure everyone that Paypal WILL NOT BAN anyone for reselling Comic Con badge.  The majority the bans stem from financial crime/fraud or the company takes a loss from the individual/entity involved. Furthermore, anyone who met me in person in this forum knows that I am a risk manager at a large publicly traded financial institution with extensive experience in payments.  My source is an ex-colleague who currently is on the the Governance, Risk, and Compliance team at Paypal.


Offline chocolateshake

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Re: Fraudulant badges? Anyone know where to report it?
« Reply #40 on: July 07, 2022, 01:10:04 PM »
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That is a broad statement used to justify a false narrative.

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Offline f22raptor

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Re: Fraudulant badges? Anyone know where to report it?
« Reply #41 on: July 08, 2022, 08:22:47 AM »
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It is immaterial.  Moreover the comments from  your PayPal Community Forum lack depth and transparency.  E.g. nobody fully disclosed their business type and was the account even approved for the  transaction type?   However, reading between the lines, PayPal probably didn’t want to do business with the individual/ or entity commenting due to credit risk for volumes not approved from the accountholder. 

Also you are comparing apples and oranges.  No one is going to close your personal account over a few Comic Con badges.  And if you have over 100 badges, open a business account and get it approved! The End.

Offline Zero

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Re: Fraudulant badges? Anyone know where to report it?
« Reply #42 on: July 08, 2022, 09:09:53 AM »
Perhaps this thread has run its course and it's time to bring it to a close soon, as the original question was regarding reporting badge resales to CCI...
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