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Con Suite => Movies and TV Shows => Topic started by: Old Man Grey on January 16, 2023, 09:00:02 AM

Title: Last of US HBO
Post by: Old Man Grey on January 16, 2023, 09:00:02 AM
Never played the game so it was all new to me. Not very impressed. Seemed like another show in the "Walking Dead" franchise. It also looked cheap. I'm a zombie/apocalypse fan so I'll keep watching but I'm not hopeful.
Title: Re: Last of US HBO
Post by: vpoulsen on January 17, 2023, 02:25:18 AM
I watched it too and immediately thought "more zombies?" I mean, okay, TWD was great, but more zombies?  Did anyone see the movie Vesper on AMC+?  I would like to see more of that story in sequel.
Title: Re: Last of US HBO
Post by: TardisMom on January 17, 2023, 08:47:03 AM
I don't know the game but I thought it was pretty good. I really like the actors.  It will get me through until Succession returns.
Title: Re: Last of US HBO
Post by: rushfanyyz on January 17, 2023, 09:25:08 AM
I thought I was the only one. More zombies, more miracle cure immune child that must be transported somewhere, blah blah blah. I like Pedro Pascal so I'll keep watching for that I guess but it's nothing amazing. The game I understand people raving about at the time, wasn't it like 2013? Back then the story line wasn't overdone as much as it is now.
Title: Re: Last of US HBO
Post by: perc2100 on January 17, 2023, 09:33:14 AM
Before I get deep into my thoughts, as someone familiar with the game maybe I can help clear things up:

this is NOT a 'zombie'/walking dead type of series at all, and all.  The "moss men" that we'll be seeing eventually are in a sense analogues of zombies to an extent: what happens to infected humans who aren't dispatched and burned quick enough (if you were kind of paying attention to the opening title sequence, you'll notice it's all mossy/vines growing - while its stylish that they made it in the shape of buildings to symbolize the fall of civilization, that's really what the infected humans will look like).

Regardless, the first episode is literally a prologue to the _real_ story of the game/series: taking Ellie across the country and out of the un-quarantined safe zone for a very specific reason (
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).

If anything, this show is a (very) different take on The Mandalorian (older experienced tracker guy tasked with the care of a youngling) mashed up with a bit of CHILDREN OF MEN (older experienced guy is tasked with transporting the first pregnant woman across the country in order to save humanity which has stopped producing babies for some unexplained reason).  The fungal infection is more of a story "in" that leads to a really awesome character-driven story.  Obviously with the game, there are aspects of fighting off the moss-men infected as well as fighting off rogue scavengers & other non-infected bad guys.  But the story is centered around Joel & Ellie, the people they meet along the way, etc: incredibly emotional, if I'm being honest.

Like, I can't stress enough how this is not like The Walking Dead (a show that I admittedly got bored of about half way through the run of the series, though I did enjoy the comic up until the very end).  And again, I think this pilot episode is likely the most "meh" of the first season (which is also what several TV critics who have seem the majority of the season have also said) with all of the end-of-the-world series we've seen lately.  I'd say this is more of a spiritual cousin to Station Eleven + Children of Men moreso than The Walking Dead.

I get the 'zombie fatigue' folks will have, and to be blunt this pilot gave me a 'been there/done that' sense to an extent, even knowing this was the prologue to the story.  Other episodes, from what some TV critic friends have told me, are very different and not the 'gnarly zombie kill of the week' walking dead type of thing.  This game was in development and released when The Walking Dead was the hottest show on TV, so it makes sense that the game creators would maybe 'piggyback' on that trend as a gateway for this story, but I wouldn't say this is a zombie-esque story.

Also, FWIW, the writer of the original game is one of the co-showrunners, Neil Druckmann (along with Craig Mazin, the guy that brought us the incredibly tense HBO miniseries Chernobyl & directed the pilot) so I'm expecting this to be relatively faithful to the game tonally, if not narratively.  Druckmann directs ep. 2 when the real story kicks off, and I suspect the series will be more like a "guest star of the week" as Ellie & Joel make their journey to Denver.
Title: Re: Last of US HBO
Post by: vpoulsen on January 17, 2023, 01:18:58 PM
In the first episode it showed infected eating other people.  Now, please correct me if I am wrong, but isn't that pretty much what Zombies do?  I'm not slamming the show, and trust me, I WILL watch it because I am sci fi junkie ESPECIALLY anything about viruses (something I have been obsessed with since 7th grade and the Andromeda Strain movie first aired on TV and I was HOOKED), so...that being said...I did catch on to the freaky cauliflower head people the "upcoming" scenes showed and it reminded me of a novel series that I read last year during the lockdowns...it's called The Ruins by T.W. Piperbrook, where people are infected with a virus that mutates them into mindless monsters...anyway, the way they are described in the book looks like the mutated victims in the upcoming scenes.  I also picked up on the similar story concept to Children of Men, but aren't all stories a bit of retelling of other stories?  We already know she IS infected, but it doesn't kill her or mutate her, she fights it off. 
Title: Re: Last of US HBO
Post by: perc2100 on January 17, 2023, 06:42:55 PM
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In the first episode it showed infected eating other people.  Now, please correct me if I am wrong, but isn't that pretty much what Zombies do?  I'm not slamming the show, and trust me, I WILL watch it because I am sci fi junkie ESPECIALLY anything about viruses (something I have been obsessed with since 7th grade and the Andromeda Strain movie first aired on TV and I was HOOKED), so...that being said...I did catch on to the freaky cauliflower head people the "upcoming" scenes showed and it reminded me of a novel series that I read last year during the lockdowns...it's called The Ruins by T.W. Piperbrook, where people are infected with a virus that mutates them into mindless monsters...anyway, the way they are described in the book looks like the mutated victims in the upcoming scenes.  I also picked up on the similar story concept to Children of Men, but aren't all stories a bit of retelling of other stories?  We already know she IS infected, but it doesn't kill her or mutate her, she fights it off.
This is a good point, and that's why IMO it's not the basic premise of a series/game/comic/book that makes a great story, it's _how_ it's told.  Its twists and turns: character arcs.  Emotions.  There have obviously been a million zombie 'things' in media since George Romero (brilliantly) defined that version of the genre w/his 1968 NIGHT OF THE LIVING DEAD film.  The tropes and conventions he invented were done over and over again throughout The Walking Dead series run, as well as a million other films both great (FWIW the 'zombies eat brains' was defined in the kinda-sequel RETURN OF THE LIVING DEAD that Romero had nothing to do with), pretty good (Zach Snyder's DAWN OF THE DEAD remake of Romero's near-perfect classic had it's interesting moments but never hit the social commentary highs Romero's original did), and flat-out bad (DAY OF THE DEAD remake that was a kinda-sequel to Snyder's film, RETURN OF THE LIVING DEAD II that took the comedic aspects of the first film in a weird place, and billion other bad zombie movies).  We've seen zombie-adjacent movies that did very different things with the genre (28 WEEKS LATER, the sequel to 28 DAYS LATER that started out as its own thing before turning into a sorta-remake/riff on Romero's original DAY OF THE DEAD), or lovingly deconstructed the genre (SHAUN OF THE DEAD is a rare horror-comedy that works on both levels of the genre while also being the rare zombie movie that actually uses the word "zombie").  Heck, Peter Jackson's first and third films were riffs on the genre zombie that he did so effectively, with his BRAIN DEAD being both incredibly gnarly w/gore as well as incredibly hilarious!

What I'm getting at, is I'd say The Last of Us is zombie-adjacent.  The opening scenes in TX did indeed feature early-infected humans that resembled 'zombies,' while the "20 years later" featured a pretty gnarly moss-man infected that was seemingly attached to a wall.  The game was a rare action game where the point was often 'AVOID THE FIGHT AT ALL COSTS!' and the infected situation was merely the jumping off point for the emotional aspects of the story.  To say that the Joel and Ellie relations was the heart of the story would be a bit of a misnomer: their relationship IS the entire story, with their intermittent run-ins with either infected or bad humans being more of a back-drop or excuse to tell their story.

Like I said, I've been told by critics who have seen most of the first season that the pilot is the weakest exactly because the "apocalyptic dystopia" environment feels a bit of old-hat at this point, and the kinda-zombie attacks coming on the heels of The Walking Dead (long drawn-out) ending (except for all of the tiring talk of spin-offs that seem only maybe plausible at this point, though of course there is a golden calf to milk the absolute last dollar out of) bear comparisons.  And that's fare.  But IMO the game, and even the bulk of the pilot let alone the entire first season, only bare a cosmetic semblance to The Walking Dead, or other zombie movies.  Or at least mediocre/bad zombie movies.  Romero's DAWN OF THE DEAD essentially had the bulk of its zombie mayhem in the first and last 20 mins, with the bulk of the film being the humans camped out in the mall dealing with their new living reality: zombies feel almost like an afterthought for quite a bit of the middle of the film. 
So I guess in that regard maybe Last of Us does resemble a zombie movie: albeit the great ones.  But no more than WEST SIDE STORY is a riff on Shakespeare's "Romeo & Juliette" or STAR WARS: A NEW HOPE is a fun riff on the Japanese film HIDDEN FORTRESS.
Title: Re: Last of US HBO
Post by: vpoulsen on January 17, 2023, 09:28:44 PM
Wow, you know your Zombie lore!  I've seen all of those films, except Snyder's remake.  I just hope HBO doesn't abandon the story like they did with Raised by Wolves which was really really good.  I am so fed up with good shows getting abandoned right when they start getting really really deep into the story.
Title: Re: Last of US HBO
Post by: Old Man Grey on January 18, 2023, 08:32:42 AM
perc2100 puts up a passionate defense and I hope he's right. But after seeing how HALO was butchered by Paramount+ I have my doubts. Also having the original creator on board is no guarantee of fidelity to the source material. Kirkman was a producer on "Walking Dead", and it diverted from the original in the first season.
Title: Re: Last of US HBO
Post by: vpoulsen on January 18, 2023, 10:01:46 AM
I recall reading that Kirkman diverted the tv series from the comics deliberately and I have the ENTIRE comic series in the hardcover books.  It was a Christmas tradition that I would buy the annual Hardcover book for me and my kids to read, but admit that I need to go back read the last two because he ends the story differently than it was ended in the series.  In a way, for me, it's like having one of those "alternate endings" options some directors like to add to their director's cuts.
Title: Re: Last of US HBO
Post by: perc2100 on January 18, 2023, 05:10:08 PM
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Wow, you know your Zombie lore!  I've seen all of those films, except Snyder's remake.  I just hope HBO doesn't abandon the story like they did with Raised by Wolves which was really really good.  I am so fed up with good shows getting abandoned right when they start getting really really deep into the story.
Yeah, I couldn't finish season 2 of Raised by Wolves: great concept and start, but it felt like it went wrong for whatever reason fairly quickly.

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perc2100 puts up a passionate defense and I hope he's right. But after seeing how HALO was butchered by Paramount+ I have my doubts. Also having the original creator on board is no guarantee of fidelity to the source material. Kirkman was a producer on "Walking Dead", and it diverted from the original in the first season.
100% true & fair.  I'm obviously cautiously optimistic about this series, mostly because Chernobyl blew me away and I'm hoping that Craig Mazin (who also was a 'consulting producer' on the also awesome Mythic Quest, though admittedly I have no clue what that means he did) coupled with Neil Druckman, story director/head writer/co-director of the original game (along w/co-director and main writer of Part 2 and a slew of really good Unchartered games).

I've chatted with a few TV critics, one who knows little/nothing about the game and the other who was a fan of both games, and they both LOVE this series.  They both also said the first episode was probably the weakest of the eps they saw, and I agree the pilot/prologue was more of a "this looks incredibly promising!" than "this singular episode blew me away!" 

I also hate that I'm now likely appearing to be a fanboy, and I can assure that if this show disappoints I will log my concerns here  :P

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I recall reading that Kirkman diverted the tv series from the comics deliberately and I have the ENTIRE comic series in the hardcover books.  It was a Christmas tradition that I would buy the annual Hardcover book for me and my kids to read, but admit that I need to go back read the last two because he ends the story differently than it was ended in the series.  In a way, for me, it's like having one of those "alternate endings" options some directors like to add to their director's cuts.
As for The Walking dead diverting from the books right off the bat (after the awesome Halloween premier episode, and most of the "Rick gets out of Atlanta" stuff), I wonder how much of that was also big-time show runner/Oscar-nominated Frank Darabont too.  I know there were also budget constraints (that partially led to Darabont leaving/getting fired, depending on which version of the story you believe), and with an ensemble big budget series they have to 1) try to appease as many demographics as possible 2) make all the actors who committed to the series happy (which means the series can't take half a season off away from some actors you have under contract).  I was an avid reader for the first run, and as the Deluxe comics are released I've been reading them as a sort of re-read of the series (up to issue 55 or so).  Like many I think there were some changes the show did that were much-improved (I like what they did with there Governor and Negan, both of which felt a little too 'comic booky' for live-action and were mellowed out juuuuust enough for the series) and some that were mistakes (the less said about T-Dog the better  :P ). The show lost me at some point along the way, but I will ALWAYS be happy that for more than a decade one of the more popular shows on TV was a zombie show that had outstanding zombie makeup and fun kills!
Title: Re: Last of US HBO
Post by: perc2100 on January 23, 2023, 10:35:45 AM
Another outstanding episode that focused on relationship & personalities of our main characters while also giving us some background on what caused the world-wide apocalyptic plague.

Some (briefish) thoughts about s1 e2 "Infected"

* we start the ep w/another flashback: this time to what appears to be the root cause of the fungal virus outbreak.  This was hinted at in episode 1, with one of the largest flour providers in the world having fungal outbreak.  This, as far as I remember, wasn't part of the video game but resulted in a very chilling assessment from a disease expert that was simply, in order to stop the spread to bomb the entire town & its inhabitants because there is no cure.  In most zombie/zombie-adjacent movies/situations the root cause of the outbreak is rarely determined: maybe at best there is some speculation (ZOMBIELAND is one of the few I can remember that not only has a relatively happy ending, but also specifies some sort of mad cow disease as the cause of the zombie outbreak), but rarely do we see an explicit reasoning for the end-times infection. 
Of course, we're likely given this information for the bigger, over-all reason of causing doubt that Ellie is indeed the key to saving humanity.  This isn't necessarily the end-all/be-all definitive information about a cause for the virus, but it underscores the severity and is also thematically important.  This dire assessment (in the pre-credit teaser to the second episode, no less), symbolizes where our main character, Joel, is mentally at this point 20 years into the dystopia (I'll get to that in a bit)...

* we get to spend _a lot_ of time getting to know our characters, primarily Ellie.  And how cool is this: Ellie acts like a teenager in our own non-dystopia 2023!  She curious, she has a goofy sense of humor, she has somewhat of a youthful innocence.  This is a very wise decision by the showrunners: to show us _why_ we should care about Ellie outside of just "savior of humanity!" reasons. 
We also get to know Joel's partner, Tess, a bit.  Tess and Joel are hardened 'experts' when it comes to smuggling in & out of the Quarantine Zone, and it was interesting (I'd say fun, but I don't think "fun" and "Last of Us" are super compatible  :P )to see the contrast between the two characters.  Tess showed a bit more empathy for Ellie as a teen, and seems more understanding with a 'newbie' out in the 'wild.'  Joel seems all business: (relatively) calm & calculated with his actions.

* we get an idea of where Joel is mentally, and he's clearly still dealing with his daughter's death 20 years ago.  I suspect he's in a place where he's not wanting to get too close to Ellie, and while he trusts & cares for Tess as a partner, he seems to 'keep his distance' mentally.  This episode is setting up the dynamic between Joel & Ellie, where Joel is still suffering from PTSD and will likely struggle being the loan caretaker of a teenage girl on their journey cross-country.  While this episode focused on Ellie & Tess, it slyly also centers on Joel's behavior: gives us confidence he can do this job, but he keeps people at bay.  Even even barely reacted/emoted to
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Tess' exit/sacrifice
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when they were outside after the massive explosion, he barely even turned around: he just calmly picked himself off the ground and kept moving.

* "The Kiss"  Just...creepy!!  I don't recall that stuff from the games either, but WOW was he a relatively simplistic but wildly effective moment!!!  While I concede that the game came out roughly 3 years after The Walking Dead premiered, and almost certainly took some cues from the AMC series, Last of Us the series is striving to differentiate itself from the popular zombie show by focusing on the fungal stuff.  The Clickers are creepy on their own, and both visually and audibly different from the traditional zombie.  I look forward to what the SFX crew does with these moss-men zombies, but even doing what they simply did this episode (the 'vine' tendrils growing out of the corpse in the opening flashback; 'the kiss') is really cool and adds a layer of "ick" into the mix

* how about those production values!  Obviously HBO budgets are bigger than AMC or traditional networks.  The fact that our characters only spent _part_ of one episode in dystopia Boston, the flooded museum, etc. when you _know_ AMC would've forced the showrunns to spend the bulk of a season in that location after spending so much money, is fun to me.  Obvs there are a lot of CGI effects to showcase the run-down mossy city, but that stuff is still expensive.  This is an expansive concept, traveling cross-country, and while some locations will be expansive (first couple eps) some will be much more low-key forest wilderness type as well.  But I appreciate a series that isn't afraid to spend money to establish a mood or create an effect.
FWIW this is said to be the most expensive series produced in Canada, and comparable to Game of Thrones' per-episode budget.  A reason why The Walking Dead had issues was because they often cheaped-out on the budget, and that impacted story-arcs (yes, AMC 'forced' the show to stay at the farm for an entire season because they were trying to keep the budget lower, and that's a big reason why its original showrunner left the series).  I'm glad HBO is giving this series the budget it needs to effectively tell its story and I hope that continues.

* non-Spoiler Spoiler: this story is thematically the opposite of Craig Mazin's "Chernobyl" miniseries.  There, the series centered on a whole lot of people self-sacrificing for the greater good: a lot of people did things they knew would be their death (either literally or career-wise or both), knowing it was the only shot at saving humanity.  Here, I'm not so sure humanity has much of a chance, at least based on information we've gotten through two episodes (yes, I know the story of the two games + the DLC but I'm keeping all that open and making judgements just on what we see/experience via the series).  Chernobyl was one of the most intense series I've seen in a long time: one I def. couldn't binge, or even watch more than one 60 min. episode at a time/daily.  I think it is one of the best dramatic miniseries of its time, and that gives me hopes that this series will be excellent as well.  But at least w/Chernobyl you could see the good being done, even through the immense tragedy: with Last of Us, I'm not so sure I see hope (and I think Joel is at this point at least as skeptical as I am).

* this was an OUTSTANDING 2nd episode.  Second episodes of a series are incredibly hard.  Often a showrunner will have a great idea/hook to get the show out of the gate with the pilot, but the 2nd episode is where the hard part starts.  Often a series needs several episodes to find its legs and its characters (Seinfeld famously took several _seasons_ before things started to click).  Because of the relatively small main cast here, the showrunners don't have a ton of characters they have to delve into.  The pilot centered on Joel, and the 2nd episode centered on Ellie and now we're off to the races.  This episode wisely centered on getting to audience to like Ellie as a person while also underscoring the dangers of their journey and just how quickly things can take a horribly tragic turn for anyone.  It both went "big" but also understated, and accomplished its directives well.

* this series moves at a fast pace.  There is already sooooo much they could've done to slow down the journey a bit, but the showrunners are keeping things moving.  I appreciate that, and while I firmly believe no series has 'episodes that tread water plot-wise' if you actually _LIKE_ spending time with characters, there are definitely too many times a series has episodes that don't feel compelling, don't move a story or character ark forward, and feel closer to "it's too early to get to the crux of the conflict/confrontation of this season so we have to 'fill' a few episodes however we can."  Even Ted Lasso, one of if not THE best comedy on the air, even had a few of those in Season 2 when Apple told them mid-production they wanted to add two additional episodes.  One was the incredibly cute Christmas episode, and the other was the Coach Beard-centric/Scorsese AFTER HOURS homage.  Both episodes I adored, and the showrunners handled the situation great, but that's more an exception.  While we're only 2/10 eps through this first season, the series already feels like it's moving fast, has explicit story purpose each moment on the air, and I'm looking forward each week seeing where it takes us next.  There are VERY few shows I can say that about, both historically and currently.

I suspect we'll get a plethora of upcoming episodes that are 'guest-star of the week,' where Joel and Ellie meet some nice folks, some awful, along their way.  There will be some run-ins with the Clickers, some run-ins with dangerous humans, and some legit warm and caring folks that greet and help our travelers.  I think so far this is a GREAT start, and the balance between being faithful to the game's storylines while expanding and changing things (
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).  This is a rare series where I'm tuning on the moment the series drops and not waiting a day or several to 'catch up.'  The only other series I've felt that compelled to make 'appointment viewing' recently is Ted Lasso. 

So far the series is off to a great start; we'll see if this series can sustain it's high quality (and my high expectations)!
Title: Re: Last of US HBO
Post by: vpoulsen on January 23, 2023, 11:11:25 AM
No one has even mentioned that Olivia Dunham is in this yet...or did I miss that?  Anna Torv is Tess and last night's episode was heartbreaking. 
Title: Re: Last of US HBO
Post by: perc2100 on January 23, 2023, 01:33:30 PM
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No one has even mentioned that Olivia Dunham is in this yet...or did I miss that?  Anna Torv is Tess and last night's episode was heartbreaking.
She is (was  :( ) awesome, and while I knew her role it still didn't hurt any less
Title: Re: Last of US HBO
Post by: perc2100 on January 23, 2023, 01:38:38 PM
HBO hyped The Last of Us ratings/viewership this am:https://www.darkhorizons.com/last-of-us-sets-hbo-ratings-jump-record/ (https://www.darkhorizons.com/last-of-us-sets-hbo-ratings-jump-record/)
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Last night’s second episode however has broken a new record for the channel. According to ratings giant Nielsen combined with first-party data from Warner Bros. Discovery, the show’s second episode pulled in 5.7 million viewers across linear airings on HBO and streams on HBO Max.

That’s a 22% increase on last week’s record-breaking 4.7 million in overnights – a number that jumped to 10 million after two days of availability.

That 22% jump from the initial premiere viewership to second episode debut audience is also, according to HBO, the “largest week 2 audience growth for an HBO Original drama series in the history of the network.”

FWIW The Walking Dead's first season episodes pulled in between 4.71 million and 5.97 million live viewers, so one could say that HBO's The Last of Us is achieving The Walking Dead s1 numbers.  Exciting stuff; IIRC I think the show is greenlit for 3 seasons at least, and it wouldn't surprise me if Naughty Dog has Last of Us part 3 in development.
Title: Re: Last of US HBO
Post by: Old Man Grey on January 23, 2023, 07:45:06 PM
I will concede that this episode looked really good compared to the cheap looking pilot. But substitute zombies for the infected and you have a typical "Walking Dead" episode. Three things had me shaking my head. What human being would let a grotesque monster slowly walk up and give them a French kiss? How come our hero didn't pick up some of those grenades (or ammo) before he took off?  They might come in handy latter. Why do TV/movie lighters take 20 flicks to light? Oh, and a constantly cussing 14-year-old isn't as charming as the writers think.
Title: Re: Last of US HBO
Post by: perc2100 on January 24, 2023, 10:13:30 AM
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I will concede that this episode looked really good compared to the cheap looking pilot. But substitute zombies for the infected and you have a typical "Walking Dead" episode. Three things had me shaking my head. What human being would let a grotesque monster slowly walk up and give them a French kiss? How come our hero didn't pick up some of those grenades (or ammo) before he took off?  They might come in handy latter. Why do TV/movie lighters take 20 flicks to light? Oh, and a constantly cussing 14-year-old isn't as charming as the writers think.
IDK, in a post-apocalypse where lighter fluid may be hard to come by I can imagine a lighter taking quite a few flicks.  Hell, I know someone who was smoking w/an old bic lighter recently that was near the end of its lifespan and it took quite a long time to get it lit.

As for Tess, she knew she was dead and her moments were numbered so she was likely trying to be unprovocative in order to not attract the infected & get ripped to shreds so she can light the fuse.

I don't be to be a grand defender of this (or anything I personally have nothing to do with), and obviously tastes will very.  Heck, I think through two episodes this is already far better than the bulk of The Walking Dead's run, and knowing the game there is a good chance this show will be far more consistent than TWD ever was (even the all-Frank Darabont first season was wildly inconsistent quality and character wise: again, see T-Dog as one easy example) but I can see how, especially through only two episodes, this is a zombie-adjacent series.  And to me, that's not a big deal (as stated in a previous thread, my love of zombie media runs deep, and I often will even appreciate mediocre or bad zombie movies if they have interesting 'gags'/gory kills   :P ).  I stopped watching TWD awhile ago so I'm personally not burned-out by zombie stuff if it's good quality, and so far The Last of Us is above-average quality (though I suspect even if I stuck with TWD for its duration, I still wouldn't be burned out on zombie stuff of good quality).
Title: Re: Last of US HBO
Post by: perc2100 on January 31, 2023, 10:17:47 AM
Holy cow did Episode 3 hit it out of the park: what an incredible 80ish mins of television!!!  It feels bold of the creatives to spend the bulk of an episode on two side-characters, heretofore mostly unknown to us.  While most folks would approach "Joel needs a vehicle" with minimal efforts, here we get massive backstory on Joel (and Tess)'s scavenging partner.  While I had a slight understanding of how things would turn out for Bill & Frank, I wasn't quite prepared for the creatives to decide "how about an entire episode of the beginning sequence of UP?" 
I'm a fan of Nick Offerman, and he was out-freaking-standing here: as was his partner, Murray Bartlett.  They really did make a cute couple, and
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I thought this episode was incredibly satisfying: a top-tier television episode!
 
A couple of really quick side-notes:
* this was NOT a bottle-neck episode, as some online have proclaimed: a bottle-neck episode is when a studio/network decide to save money and include an entire episode (or season, coughWalkingDeadFarmcough) in one location.  This is a dopey nitpick (kind of?!) on my part, I know, but I feel it needs to be said :-P
* based on the game, if this episode emotionally wrecked you, as it seemed to wreck MANY online, brace yourselves for Sam: likely in the next few weeks, depending on how long the creatives draw out the Pittsburgh stuff
* there was a bit of fun via the show-obviously-filmed-in-Canada making proclamations like "10 miles west of Boston," but who cares, am I right?!  There's a long history of quality TV series or films (and even more not-so-quality) that take place in one city but are obviously filmed elsewhere.  I have no down MA residents got a lol at that card, and even I (a SoCA resident from OH) chuckled at that, but whatareyagonnado.  :P
Title: Re: Last of US HBO
Post by: debster on January 31, 2023, 02:41:44 PM
I'm really enjoying the series. I have only a basic knowledge of the video game so I have no idea what's going to happen. I know we are probably in for some more heartbreak...
Title: Re: Last of US HBO
Post by: alyssa on February 01, 2023, 08:36:41 AM
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I'm really enjoying the series. I have only a basic knowledge of the video game so I have no idea what's going to happen. I know we are probably in for some more heartbreak...
i'm with u on this. Not a clue what's coming up but I really enjoy the depth of the writing. It takes guts to devote an entire ep to the back story of how they get a truck. It was really satisfying to see a complete lifelong arc instead of the usual fight & die and then leave it all(truck) to the protagonist.
Title: Re: Last of US HBO
Post by: TardisMom on February 01, 2023, 09:40:31 AM
That was one of the best episodes of television I've seen! Incredible acting!
Title: Re: Last of US HBO
Post by: foxbatkllr on February 06, 2023, 02:57:31 PM
I'm a fan of the games (I've done a Joel cosplay too) and I'm really loving this show so far.  I've gotten several people hooked on the show as well who don't play the games.  It's a really good adaptation so far.  It's not 1:1, but it is still faithful.  I find myself looking forward to new episodes all week long, like I need my fix!
Title: Re: Last of US HBO
Post by: perc2100 on February 07, 2023, 10:01:09 AM
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I'm a fan of the games (I've done a Joel cosplay too) and I'm really loving this show so far.  I've gotten several people hooked on the show as well who don't play the games.  It's a really good adaptation so far. It's not 1:1, but it is still faithful.  I find myself looking forward to new episodes all week long, like I need my fix!
And I have so many questions on the changes Neil Druckmann had a hand in changing from his story in the game!  Some make sense (for example, the opening episode spending more time with Joel's daughter - great story on TV, likely not something that would be good for gameplay), but some are just 'different.'  In now way do I mean I dislike any changes (contrarily, I kind of dig that at this point, after 4 episodes, I feel like I have a _broad_ idea of where the story beats are headed, but enough has already be changed a bit that I'm continually surprised).  Also, even knowing how drama works, this show makes me feel tense in ways that few TV series generally do!  For example, in the most recent episode when Joel and Ellie are in Kansas City (another change from the game, where much of this stuff took place in Pittsburgh), from the moment they encounter the guy acting injured in the road I was massively on edge, even though I was fairly confident I generally knew how the story moment would unfold!  Also, adding Melanie Lynskey onto the show was a great idea: she's a phenomenal actor, one I've respected since Peter Jackson's HEAVENLY CREATURES, and she always makes everything better.  Her character is an addition to the story for the series, and I have no idea where her story is taking us.

That all being said, for those who were crushed by the Frank & Bill episode, if the show keeps relatively close to the game you should brace yourself for the Henry & Sam story arc... :-[ :(
Title: Re: Last of US HBO
Post by: Old Man Grey on February 07, 2023, 04:31:32 PM
Felt like a typical "Walking Dead" episode. Whatever was making the basement floor bulge looks scary. Nice homage to "Omega Man": The movie theater they drive past is showing "Woodstock".
Title: Re: Last of US HBO
Post by: vpoulsen on February 12, 2023, 12:21:48 AM
This show...omg...it's breaking my heart.  No spoilers, just that I noticed that HBO anticipated with the Superbowl being on tomorrow night it dropped Episode 5 early so I watched it last night and...yeah, it broke my heart.   
Title: Re: Last of US HBO
Post by: perc2100 on February 14, 2023, 09:37:21 AM
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This show...omg...it's breaking my heart.  No spoilers, just that I noticed that HBO anticipated with the Superbowl being on tomorrow night it dropped Episode 5 early so I watched it last night and...yeah, it broke my heart.
Yeah even when I knew what was going to happen because of the game, it was still a bit crushing!  And _DAYUM_: when those
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?!  Even though I KNEW what was happening based on the basic tenants of setting up plot points
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I still felt pretty tense: something that rarely happens to me for TV or movies.

I really dig how they keep tweaking plot points from the game to the series in ways that work really effectively for the series.  The addition of the Kathleen character (played, as always, WONDERFULLY by always-great Melanie Lynskey) was a nice touch for the series that gave the rebels a bit of added depth.

Dopey note from me: I knew all week this ep was dropping Friday evening, and was all hyped to watch it before Sunday.  Alas, for whatever reasons I didn't end up seeing it until Monday afternoon anyway.   :-X
Title: Re: Last of US HBO
Post by: perc2100 on February 15, 2023, 10:58:15 AM
Also, how cool are the practical effects for the clickers & the bloaters (the XL version of the zombie things)?!  Really nice attention to detail with the practical makeup and suit, that likely blends CGI for facial expressions or other (gooey?) needs.

And one more thing: are those things zombies?  I just saw an article in Variety that said crew weren't allowed to use the term "zombie" on set (how pedantic  :P ), and I know Kirkman has justified the lack of the term 'zombie' in The Walking Dead with Romero not having directed NIGHT OF THE LIVING DEAD or other DEAD films in that universe so the term zombie was unknown.  Obviously SHAUN OF THE DEAD had fun with that verbiage, with Shaun telling his buddy Ed not to use the term 'zombie.'
Obviously the 'clickers' and the 'bloaters' have characteristics of Romero's zombies (which have become the de facto characteristics of modern zombies) with some modifications due to the fungal thing. Do you all consider them as zombies?  I think I do not just because it keeps things a bit 'fresh' or (slightly) different than other popular, maybe slightly over-played zombie genre: like, these things are more like the infected in the 20 DAYS/WEEKS LATER films rather than the walking undead.

What do you all think?
Title: Re: Last of US HBO
Post by: Old Man Grey on February 15, 2023, 06:02:37 PM
At the beginning the infected were just like zombies (fast zombies). The later "clickers" and bloater are more like regular monsters. I didn't think the bloater was very impressive. It reminded me of the old "Swamp Thing" movie costume, a guy in a rubber suit. The girl that went after Ellie in the car was creepy like one of those Japanese ghosts (The Ring, The Grudge).
Title: Re: Last of US HBO
Post by: vpoulsen on February 15, 2023, 06:05:07 PM
There is definitely a thinking intelligence to these "creatures" and even the teasers for the upcoming spinoffs of TWD universe is hinting at a more highly functioning and thinking "walker".  Personally I don't watch these shows for the monsters.  I watch these shows for the stories of how humanity survives, how they overcome the complete loss of civilization and how they cope with the feudal tenancies that always seem to rise up in these crisis.  Ominous parallels can be drawn to these stories and historical events that have taken place in the past 100 years.  Cambodia comes to mind as the most recent.  Two of the best shows that didn't get more than two seasons was Jericho, and Revolution, and those didn't involve zombies but there were catastrophic events that led to the breakdown of civilization. 
Title: Re: Last of US HBO
Post by: Transmute Jun on February 16, 2023, 05:57:55 AM
I agree with you there, Vpoulson. I like to say that in TWD, zombies were not the story, they were the setting. The actual plot (and resulting character development) of how people would react in the complete breakdown of civilization is the real hook.

That being said... it's clear that Last of Us is based on a video game, and I can see the 'action sequences' where the player is supposed to be killing zombies. But it's also clear that the producers of the show are trying to add more plot, to 'flesh out' (as it were) the characters and story. I'm finding it to be a little predictable, but it has promise, and I'm still watching. ;)

Jericho was good, and I'm glad that the story got finished off in a comic. Revolution started out good, but by the end it had really gone off the rails and was bouncing around so much it gave me a headache (who was a 'good guy' and who was a 'bad guy' was changing every episode as people constantly switched sides).
Title: Re: Last of US HBO
Post by: NCDS on February 17, 2023, 08:17:27 AM
I vote no on the zombies.   I keep my zombies simple if you are dead and can't come back to life, zombie.  While the humans might die, it's not them coming after you but the plant.

And yes this means warm bodies are not zombies. Just cannibals for a bit.
Title: Re: Last of US HBO
Post by: vpoulsen on February 17, 2023, 11:15:30 PM
I bought that Jericho comic...I think I still have it too!
Title: Re: Last of US HBO
Post by: kneque on February 19, 2023, 05:05:43 PM
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I'm really enjoying the series. I have only a basic knowledge of the video game so I have no idea what's going to happen. I know we are probably in for some more heartbreak...

I'm glad to see unfamiliar watchers enjoying the show. I've played both games so it's been exciting seeing how it's coming together
Title: Re: Last of US HBO
Post by: vpoulsen on February 19, 2023, 06:52:26 PM
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I'm glad to see unfamiliar watchers enjoying the show. I've played both games so it's been exciting seeing how it's coming together

I just can't get into video games.  I watched my kids play the story driven games and suffered the wrath of wanting them to just turn them off "But MOM...I can't stop it now...I'm not at a point where I can stop the story..." so now I get it.  This story is just so horrifying...and I can't look at a bag of flour ever again without wondering...
Title: Re: Last of US HBO
Post by: vpoulsen on February 19, 2023, 08:37:59 PM
Okay, had to share this...so my mom, who is 90, and loathes sci fi, I mean, she used to make fun of me and my dad (who like me was a sci fi junkie and watched Star Trek TOS with me every week when I was a little girl, took me to see Star Wars Episode IV because I had broken up with my bf and didn't have a date) and called it "science affliction" says, as I am walking past her room "have you seen this show The Last of Us?  It's really good!"  I bust out laughing and said "yeah mom, oh, I see you have a couple more episodes to catch up with...yes, it's very good, I'm glad you are enjoying it."  So, this show is hitting it on all cylinders.  Tonight's episode reminds me how badly I want my own horse...sigh...I can actually afford one finally, I just don't have the right property to keep one.  Yet. 
Title: Re: Last of US HBO
Post by: perc2100 on February 23, 2023, 09:59:47 AM
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Okay, had to share this...so my mom, who is 90, and loathes sci fi, I mean, she used to make fun of me and my dad (who like me was a sci fi junkie and watched Star Trek TOS with me every week when I was a little girl, took me to see Star Wars Episode IV because I had broken up with my bf and didn't have a date) and called it "science affliction" says, as I am walking past her room "have you seen this show The Last of Us?  It's really good!"  I bust out laughing and said "yeah mom, oh, I see you have a couple more episodes to catch up with...yes, it's very good, I'm glad you are enjoying it."  So, this show is hitting it on all cylinders.  Tonight's episode reminds me how badly I want my own horse...sigh...I can actually afford one finally, I just don't have the right property to keep one.  Yet.
I've always been a 'big city' kind of guy, cringing at the thought of living too far away from a downtown area (even though at this point in my life I don't exactly have a social life nor want to go out clubbing downtown or whatever).  But seeing e6 made me think small town living could be fun: but of course, in the Last of Us universe that small town means a very different thing!

That's cool that your mom digs this show; I've been tracking the numbers of this (something I rarely do with tv/streaming) out of curiosity, and I've been wondering who the audience of this is besides the fans of the game.  The Last of Us is clearly appealing to a broad audience, I suspect because it has been really good pacing-wise + not spending a ton of time on "zombie fight/kill/gag of the week" type of stuff.  I've been saying all along this isn't about that stuff, and is more a character study and through six episodes, 2/3rds of the way through the 1st season, that's been true to form.  The show runners have proven incredibly adept adapting the video game as a series.  Folks wondering where the clickers/zombie-like things are will likely get a bit next week as I see the ep is titled 'Left Behind' which is the name of a downloadable expansion and presuming the show runners aren't planning a nutty switcharoo (the plot of the downloadable content is Ellie looking to find medicine after Joel gets hurt fighting the raiders, where she has to fight the creatures as well as raiders in order to help Joel: among other things) gamers should know what's coming next week.  There is a flashback component to Left Behind that I'll be curious to see how it's handled.

Other interesting tidbit from e6 that made my oldest kid (an AVID fan of the game, whose played it through multiple times even though they typically _loathe_ scary/horror properties of any type) shout with glee:
when Joel and Ellie were eating in the mess haul with Tommy & Maria, there's a 'shout-out' to a background character who _might_ be named Dina (credited as 'Staring Girl').  She is an integral character to The Last of Us part II game, and in dialogue in part II Dina and Ellie talk of Dina first noticing her in the Jackson WY commune, saying something like, "I remember the first time I saw you, stuffing your face in the mess hall..."  In e6, it seems incredibly plausible that girl Ellie yells out in the mess hall was indeed Dina.
If so, don't worry newbies: they'll eventually make up  8)

One other thing.  I feel like this show has conditioned us for almost constant soul-crushing.  Like, we start to get to know a character: then they tragically die.  Next episode, we get introduced to another awesome character/couple?  Tragically die.  A little later, that cute older kid w/the deaf brother? Tragic deaths.  So in e6 when Tommy's wife tells Joel and Ellie she's pregnant, I immediately looked at my kid and said "great: are we gonna see pregnant Maria tragically die?!"  Well, on one hand in the game I'll just say that Maria is alive for part II.  On the other hand, Maria being pregnant is an invention of the series.  So hopefully this is a bit of hope in the darkness of The Last of Us world.  But, we won't know until we know, as they say...

side note: when Maria is introduced finally as Tommy wife, Ellie delivers the pitch-perfect "congrats!  *whispers to Joel* 'Joel say congrats'"  ;D

We are into Act 3, so to speak, of s1 and so far IMO this season has been batting 100% on quality episodes!  This is indeed a stellar character study that is at time wildly faithful to the game (the look for Jackson, WY seemed like it could've been right out of the game!) and other times very different (see above re Maria; and also swapping out Pittsburgh for Kansas City; plenty of other stuff that IMO has worked great for the series so far).  Pacing-wise the first season feels fairly on track to be aligned with the end of part I the game, if not really close to it (I can see it ending on a specific cliffhanger before all hell breaks loose, so to speak).  This series could've easily stretched the part I game into two seasons, I think, but bravo to the show runners for keeping this relatively fast-paced narratively.  It may put pressure on the series in the future (ie ala Game of Thrones where the source material runs out mid-series, maybe) but it's working out great for now.  I can see where part II might have a bit more depth to be stretched into multiple seasons, and it wouldn't surprise me to learn that The Last of Us part III is in development that if so, we're still quite a way's off from any release.  For reference, the original game came out in 2013, part II was announced in 2016 and released in 2020 (after some delays).  Story-head (and series co-show runner) Neil Druckmann has said he has a story outline mapped out for part III so the narrative is there for either the game or the series, if not both.

Regardless, we're in the home-stretch for s1 with three more episodes/weeks to go
Title: Re: Last of US HBO
Post by: perc2100 on February 23, 2023, 11:10:02 AM
Oh, and I'd me remiss if I didn't mention the awesome movie that Ellie was watching with her peers in the Jackson commune.  What was plausibly (almost certainly) the very first film she's ever seen is the 1977 The Goodbye Girl. While it might not be the rip-roaring good time movie one would want to dive into post-apocalypse, like many other aspects of this series it was almost certainly placed there for a pointed reason (just like many of the songs).  The Goodbye Girl was an Oscar-nominated film, and Richard Dreyfus become the youngest actor to win Best Actor at the time for his role as a struggling actor (the film was nominated in 4 other categories, including Best Picture, Screenplay by Neil Simon, and for Best Actress & Supporting Actress).  It's been awhile since I've seen this film, but it's essentially about a struggling actor who sublets a NY apartment from a friend, only to find its current occupants still hanging around: a single mom/dancer and her pre-teen daughter.  The mom was living with her boyfriend/baby daddy who suddenly (and w/out telling her or his daughter) bails to take an acting gig in Europe.  The mom and especially the daughter have some abandonment issues, and struggle a bit to cohabitate w/Dreyfus.  This is a bit of rom-com, so while the artists struggle a bit in their careers the fall in love w/each other (it _is_ a rom-com).  The middle of the film is Dreyfus developing a relationship with the daughter: via trust and understanding.  Dreyfus realizes his situation is starting to play out like the previous one, and wants to make it clear that he is NOT intending to ditch the mom/daughter on a dime.  After some one-on-one time with the daughter, he promises not to ditch her, and she tears down her own barrier and trusts him.
Wouldn't you know it, Dreyfus gets offered an acting job in Seattle, where he'll be gone for a month: the mom is upset that he's going to ditch the fam like the last deadbeat as he scurries away to the airport.  But at the last second, there's a delay or something and he calls her from the payphone to apologize.  He says he's delayed and invites the mom to come with him.  The mom declines, realizes it's OK to let him go and confident that he'll be back.  He then makes a show of good-faith with the daughter by having her restring his prized guitar, with the daughter realizing since he left the guitar in her care he would indeed becoming back.

Now, Ellie only sat through _maybe_ the first part of Act 1 of the film: seemingly leaving after Dreyfus introduces himself to the daughter.  But thematically the film is tied nicely to The Last of Us w/Ellie's abandonment issues, Joel torn between his job & doing the right thing in his own 'relationship,' and both characters struggling with their own ultimate trust issues.  It's not super profound (not as profound as the beautiful use of the Linda Ronstadt song used in e3), but it's a nice artistic touch.

BTW, The Goodbye Girl was a pretty big hit, and the first rom-com to make $100m at the box office (no easy task in the 1970's).  And to be honest, Dreyfus plays "the queen who wants to be king" as the title role in Richard III, a comedic highlight that Roger Ebert compared to "Springtime for Hitler" in Mel Brooks' The Producer as a comedic gem (and I agree).  It's an entertain movie that I'd recommend
Title: Re: Last of US HBO
Post by: Old Man Grey on February 23, 2023, 04:14:21 PM
Wasn't Ellie born after the outbreak? How would she and the other children enjoy or even understand a film like that? A Bugs Bunny cartoon would have been better. Why was Joel shocked/upset/mad about his brother being married? Why was he so hell bent on leaving the safety of the community? Of course, the big head scratcher to me is why he carries a six-shot revolver and a bolt action rifle when he has had many opportunities to pick up semi-automatic rifles and handguns along the way. That said the snowy scenery was beautifully shot and the monkeys were a clever detail.
Title: Re: Last of US HBO
Post by: vpoulsen on February 23, 2023, 07:57:27 PM
So yesterday mom comes up to me in the kitchen and asks: "That wasn't the end of the show was it?  What happens to Joel?"   I held back my mirth and assured her that we had least another episode or two and that this show was breaking records for HBO so there will be a season 2, but they better launch it fairly soon after this one ends, mom is going to be 91 in April.  She is HOOKED!  I am too.  As for The Goodbye Girl...I knew the movie immediately from the dialogue I could hear in the background.  I saw it in the theater in 1977 with my boyfriend who would be the most significant man in my life.  It has always been one of my most favorite movies and I have it on DVD.  Rub the Belly....rub the belly...I found myself doing that with my kids when they had tummy aches.  The choice of that film is actually very good.  TBH, Ellie being born after the world went kablam means that ANY movie will be alien to her, so why not The Goodbye Girl.  Also, as a woman, this is something that men may not even think about much, but when the world goes tits up and so many amenities that we take for granted are no longer available, that er um...odd device that Maria leaves for Ellie is so meaningful and I literally said out loud, hah, that's brilliant!  What writer would think of that????  The acting is just so good too.  The actress who plays Ellie is a natural and there is a really good daughter/dad chemistry working with the actors.
Title: Re: Last of US HBO
Post by: chocolateshake on February 24, 2023, 12:01:01 PM
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I just can't get into video games.

People have edited all the cut scenes from the game into a roughly 2 hour movie.  That might be worth a watch after you finish watching the season.  It's different.  Even more than what was in the original game.  This week's episode is from the later released DLC, which itself was it's own little game.  One thing I miss from the video game that's not in the series very much are the cute little moments.  Those went a long way in making the video game so great.

It might be worth it to wait for people to cut together the just released remake of Last of Us for PS5, if they haven't done it already.  It looks substantially better than the 10 year old PS3 or even the PS4 remaster of the game.
Title: Re: Last of US HBO
Post by: perc2100 on March 07, 2023, 09:36:03 AM
Another outstanding episode: the penultimate one for season 1.  The beauty of this series this season (one of, I should say), is the economy of storytelling.  This episode introduced a faction of scavengers, one who has some history with our two main characters no less, created significant conflict, and then dispatched said bad guys by the end of the episode.  I feel like The Walking Dead would've spent at least a full season going back-and-forth with 'big bad' David; of course, they would've also spent a whole season in Kansas City with that rebel faction.  Of course, I key on The Walking Dead, but I really mean most long-form drama TV/streaming.  I'm almost surprised that it's looking probable they'll finish out the first entire game in only nine episodes (and that includes adding a DLC 'chapter' as a full episode, AND creating Melanie Lynskey's character).

But that's all really besides the point: a more amusing aside to a very outstanding season of television/streaming/HBO!  Episode 8 introduced what was a significant level/challenge in the game with the cannibal crew that was oozing dread for the bulk of the episode.  Even 1) knowing how this'll end due to knowledge of the game and 2) knowing they aren't going to kill either of our main characters here, I was still more tense watching this ep than I typically am watching TV/movies.  The big bad/leader of the cannibal crew, David, is played wonderfully chilling by Scott Shepherd.  Shepherd gives off this cult-leader vibe that was understated yet menacing.  We also get an easter egg of having Scott Shepherd, the original actor who portrayed Joel in the games, as David's main henchman.

We have one more episode to go, and then the wait for Season 2.  This has been an outstanding season of television, with incredible acting from Pascal & Bella Ramsey as well as the supporting cast/guest stars throughout.  I'll be curious to see how they handle this big finale, how much is mimics and/or strays from the game, etc. 
Title: Re: Last of US HBO
Post by: alyssa on March 07, 2023, 10:20:55 AM
from the perspective of a new-to-the-franchise

I absolutely **loved** that Ellie 'rescued' herself. It's that non-formula type of storytelling that makes this series so good
Title: Re: Last of US HBO
Post by: vpoulsen on March 07, 2023, 11:31:07 AM
It. Was. Intense.  Omg, the pedo cringe and then his assault on Ellie...and her ENDING him. For anyone ever threatened that way that was justice served. 
Title: Re: Last of US HBO
Post by: Old Man Grey on March 07, 2023, 06:05:36 PM
Just not seeing it. Seemed like recycled "Walking Dead". Maybe affection for the game colors people's opinions. I know having read the "Walking Dead" comics it affected how I saw the series.
Title: Re: Last of US HBO
Post by: vpoulsen on March 07, 2023, 06:29:07 PM
I never played the game.  I don't play any video games so this is just a straight up drama that is brand new to me and it is far superior to the Walking Dead.  It moves fast and the acting is outstanding.  The way Ellie fights for herself and for Joel is heroic and she is a very strongly written character.  That young lady is NO victim.  The writers are doing a great job of keeping me hooked and I hate that seasons of shows are now 8-10 episodes.  I miss the old days when a season was a SEASON, as in 20 or so episodes!  Expect to see a lot of "Ellies" at Comic Con this summer, sporting fake bite scars on their arms. 

Title: Re: Last of US HBO
Post by: Old Man Grey on March 08, 2023, 08:44:13 AM
I agree about the number of episodes. "Gunsmoke" and other 60's shows put out 39 episodes per season. Network shows now do about 22. Now they call 8 shows a season. I have to laugh when they brag about how many seasons they have been on when the total episodes are less than one season in the past.
Title: Re: Last of US HBO
Post by: vpoulsen on March 08, 2023, 09:56:16 AM
Do you think the short seasons are due to short attention spans or sheer laziness on the part of production teams and actors?  I ask this because Kevin Costner has been whining about having to work too many days on Yellowstone and wants to quit the show and my thought is, geez, you're an aging actor and you have a hit show, are probably making a huge amount of money and you are belly aching about having to work?  How many more years does that man think he has where he will be handed leading roles?  Acting is grueling, and working long hours is awful, I've done it in my career field, putting in 60-80 hours weeks, but I never realized the amount of money these people make and I would have loved an opportunity to make the kind of $$$ these people rake in (and the residuals, don't forget about those).  Not slamming all entertainers btw, so please don't take it that way.  I'm just the kind of person who still has hand bags and clothes, yes, clothes, that I wore in HS and here I am, going to SDCC for the first time with a Senior badge, so that speaks to my being someone with a LONG attention span and someone that invests in quality. 
Title: Re: Last of US HBO
Post by: NCDS on March 08, 2023, 10:07:02 AM
Short seasons have been a thing in Europe for a really long time.  My guess is the benefits are better overall on short seasons.

Personally, I think I get a better story with a short season.  The writer seems more focused on telling a good story.

Shows with 20-24 episodes tend to get lost and just do things to fill the episodes. 
Title: Re: Last of US HBO
Post by: vpoulsen on March 08, 2023, 10:38:22 AM
I respectfully disagree.

Star Trek TNG had 26 episodes each Season, and it ran for 7 years.  It is a treasure trove of great entertainment.
Star Trek TOS also had very long seasons, 29, 26, and 24 episodes respectfully and each and every one is wonderful.  And then there is DS9 and Voyager.  Having full and rich seasons allows for full story arcs and cast development and full utilization of the investment of sets, wardrobes and everything that goes into the making of a really good show, especially one that is fantasy and sci fi.

Ooh, and SG1, that was another good one, and Babylon 5 and Farscape.  So many great treasures to revisit.

Title: Re: Last of US HBO
Post by: ThePuffyTaco on March 08, 2023, 12:43:32 PM
Currently going episode by episode for DS9  on a podcast - there are a peaks and valleys when it comes to long seasons. Currently my podcast is up to Season 6, which is considered one of the best. Yet it has some of the worst episodes of the series.

It can be a mixed bag.

Sent from my SM-N960W using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Last of US HBO
Post by: NCDS on March 08, 2023, 12:43:51 PM
I am okay if people disagree, it makes the conversation more fun.

I noted all your shows are in a certain genre, I think we give leeway on genres we like more.  To be honest, though I watch all the star trek and I wouldn't call all the episodes gold, however, they do a better job than a lot of series (and I respectfully disagree on DS9). @ThePuffyTaco (https://www.friendsofcc.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=5662) if you agree with me on Star Trek I must not be too far off.

I love, love supernatural but even I can admit they had a lot of filler episodes, especially as they got into more seasons.  I still re-watch them all.

I can name shows that I think our good examples -The Black List, Grey's Anatomy, Dallas, Law & Order, Hawaii Five-O, the big bang theory, Murder she wrote, Bones, The X-files, The FBI, The Flash, Arrow, House, The Vampire Diaries.  I stopped because I realized the list is too long.

I will watch a show until the end though, no matter how lost they get after a great start. The walking dead is a great example, finished it, but was over it long before.



Title: Re: Last of US HBO
Post by: vpoulsen on March 08, 2023, 12:49:27 PM
I'm saving Supernatural for the next dry spell.  I started watching during the pandemic and then got off track. 
Title: Re: Last of US HBO
Post by: NCDS on March 08, 2023, 12:55:42 PM
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I'm saving Supernatural for the next dry spell.  I started watching during the pandemic and then got off track.

I need more breaks on the longer series if there are a lot of seasons. 

It is funny you mentioned Yellowstone, I just started it.
Title: Re: Last of US HBO
Post by: Transmute Jun on March 08, 2023, 03:21:01 PM
I'm all for shorter seasons if it helps networks give newer shows a chance. It's a lot easier for a production company to commit to 6-10 episodes than 20-30 episodes. There's also an issue with how expensive/time consuming episodes are to make. For example, I gather that the amount of work and time and expense put into each GoT episode was enormous.
Title: Re: Last of US HBO
Post by: NCDS on March 08, 2023, 03:22:48 PM
A friend of mine pointed out that they are getting movie stars in a lot of these series now.  I bet that takes a good portion of the budget.
Title: Re: Last of US HBO
Post by: vpoulsen on March 08, 2023, 04:10:53 PM
I am finally watching The Expanse now after having read the first three books when they started coming out.  Now THAT looks like an expensive show to shoot.  Yellowstone, not so much.  GoT was ridiculous with the costumes and sets and special effects.  I can't imagine how much money HBO put into that, but it will generate money for years as a draw to their service.  Carnival Row also looks like an expensive show to produce and it will only have two seasons  :( but Amazon had an incredible offsite experience for that show at SDCC in 2019 and what is fun about Amazon Prime's off site pavilion is that one can get a feel for the set and how amazing the production company makes it look on film using props.  Same with The Expanse, there was a set up for that show as well.  It was so much fun that my friends and I actually went back and did everything all over again the next day with another friend who didn't come with us the first day.
Title: Re: Last of US HBO
Post by: Old Man Grey on March 09, 2023, 09:18:56 AM
I'm sure budget considerations are a big factor in why these series are so short. My beef is we have to wait a whole year for the next season. By then I've forgotten many of the details of the show and don't feel like rewatching the whole series to catch up. As for filler shows on longer running series, they are often used to highlight other characters besides the main ones. Sometimes they are used to give the viewer a break after an intense episode. Back in the day series used to always have a Christmas show or humorous episode just to let the cast loosen up. No time for that when you only have 8 episodes per season.
Title: Re: Last of US HBO
Post by: perc2100 on March 10, 2023, 09:20:55 AM
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Just not seeing it. Seemed like recycled "Walking Dead". Maybe affection for the game colors people's opinions. I know having read the "Walking Dead" comics it affected how I saw the series.
Yeah, if I'm being blunt to me "The Last of Us" is more like "if they did Walking Dead well instead of mediocre/relatively cheap."  I think "The Last of Us" achieves what the Walking Dead series _tried_ to do but missed the mark: focus on character within the setting of a society-crushing pseudo-apocalypse.  I hate to be the guy that bags on one show to prop up another, and I 100% get why people see this similar to The Walking Dead.  I have little doubt that the game 'formula' was created because the series was popular/in the zeitgeist when they were developing the game: "zombie-esque apocalypse" was almost certainly an easy 'sell' to launch what's _really_ a character study.  IMO TWD tried to do this (and IMO the comic did a better job with this) but fell short for whatever reasons (budget issues when they had a great show-runner to start the series, mediocre writing when they had a bigger budget, maybe too many characters/actors on the payroll they had to juggle, IDK).

And obviously, for folks of a certain age "The Walking Dead" series felt like a recycled Romero zombie thing: using the same tenants/'rules' Romero literally invented for NIGHT OF THE LIVING DEAD while attempting to cover the same social commentary Romero nailed with his original quadrilogy of DEAD movies (though falling well short, IMO).  Everything in art is influenced by something that excelled before it, and as long as the 'new' art is good on its own terms, I don't care what was obviously a jumping-off reference point.  And in that regarding, I think "The Last of Us" works incredibly well all around, from writing, to FX, to casting & acting, to direction, editing and pacing.
Title: Re: Last of US HBO
Post by: Old Man Grey on March 10, 2023, 09:57:36 AM
I think some of my dissatisfaction with the "Last of Us" is zombie apocalypse/end of the world fatigue. Being a fan of the genre, I have watched a lot of movies and tv shows on the subject. "Last of Us" isn't showing me anything new. I'm still watching it because it's good enough that I think it might get better with time.
Title: Re: Last of US HBO
Post by: alyssa on March 10, 2023, 12:10:24 PM
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I think some of my dissatisfaction with the "Last of Us" is zombie apocalypse/end of the world fatigue. Being a fan of the genre, I have watched a lot of movies and tv shows on the subject. "Last of Us" isn't showing me anything new. I'm still watching it because it's good enough that I think it might get better with time.
i hear u
i hesitated due to the zombie fatigue also. For some reason, this series somehow seems 'real-ier' than the WD. Honestly, i think it comes down to better stories with less reliance on the standard tropes. At least that's what I rationalize as it's appeal.
Title: Re: Last of US HBO
Post by: perc2100 on March 10, 2023, 12:49:04 PM
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i hear u
i hesitated due to the zombie fatigue also. For some reason, this series somehow seems 'real-ier' than the WD. Honestly, i think it comes down to better stories with less reliance on the standard tropes. At least that's what I rationalize as it's appeal.
That's where I'm at: coupled with solid direction (I can't tell you how often action scenes in some series, like TWD specifically, have really poor direction/editing) and incredible acting (only have two main actors throughout helps here, with both leads being amazing IMO).

I also am in a different boat, where I checked out of TWD awhile back so I've had a bit of a 'break' from serial zombie-esque series (though thanks to stuff like "Station 11," BIRD BOX, QUIET PLAC movies, etc. I do feel like I'm close to a breaking point of apocalyptic media)
Title: Re: Last of US HBO
Post by: perc2100 on March 13, 2023, 07:09:29 PM
**SPOILER FREE ZONE HERE**

And S1 of this series ends with a bang (technically, LOTS of bangs: from various guns fired by Joel), Ellie almost certainly suspecting/knowing Joel lied to her about what happened while she was under, and Joel making truly awful, bad, tragic decisions when overcome with protecting some he loves.  This series has been all about what one would do for love: both the good (Henry & Sam; Bill & Frank) and bad (Kathleen's all-out vengeance against those who were responsible for her brother's death), and that theme is played out to its fullest in the s1 finale.  We kick off the episode with a little background re: Ellie's mom: of course, with the fun easter egg that the actress playing the woman who births Ellie being the actress who literally 'birthed' Ellie by playing her in the video games.  We also get background on the Firefly who eventually squares off with Joel, adding a little bit of depth and urgent empathy to the current situation (albeit one of maybe wildly implausible probability, but who am I to be overly critical  :P ).  The first half of the ep sees Joel & Ellie in a sweetly quiet time of spring, post-winter perils, and enjoying some of the wildlife around them.  This is quickly disrupted by Ellie & Joel being captured, and Joel awakening to find out he's in the Firefly hospital they were looking for.

Fans of the game know what happens next, and those who have been paying attention to the series thus far have at this point realized we don't get pat happy endings.  Without spoiling, decisions are made and Joel and Ellie find themselves back on their way to Jackson, Wyoming and Joe's brother living peacefully in the commune.  Season 1 ends with Ellie making Joel swear that he's telling the truth about events that happened she wasn't conscious for with Joel lying to her. 

And now, we wait for Season 2...

FWIW, I _REALLY_ dug this season of television.  This was a really well-paced season that never felt draggy, never felt like the series was treading water or writing episodes by-the-numbers/formulaic in order to deliver a spectacle every 90 mins or so.  The series followed the basic beats of the first game, while deviating at times in ways that always felt like the service of the series story and characters trumped everything else.  I can't imagine anyone sitting through this first season and thinking future seasons will be cheery, happy, or full of hope. 

And maybe that's a negative.

I personally have no problems with that ethos, and knowing what I know about the Part 2 game that will be the basis for Season 2 (and also carry over into Season 3) I know that there is a mix of good times and bad times, though maybe more tears than lol's.
But does a series like this have legs to go multiple seasons?  In interviews this year the show runners, one of whom is the narrative head of the games, have said this is a three season series, so maybe the vibe of this show is OK for that kind of 'short' long-form narrative.  I didn't mind the often nihilistic vibe from The Walking Dead series, but got tired mainly because they kept repeating story beats too often to keep my interest.  I do recall plenty of fall-out midway through the series, sometime around the Negan wars, where folks online were complaining about the too-dark disposition of the series.  I guarantee narratively Part 2 of the game is just as solid as Part 1, takes interesting twists & turns while introducing new characters throughout so from a story standpoint, I think three seasons of this will be great.  But will 'normal' or casual fans be turned off by the doom-and-gloom of the series?  Only time will tell.

What did you all think of this season? 
Title: Re: Last of US HBO
Post by: Old Man Grey on March 15, 2023, 09:01:25 AM
After this episode it's going to be hard to see Joel as the "hero". The people he killed weren't villains but good people trying to save the world. It reminds me of "The Walking Dead" when Rick and his people murdered Nagans people in their sleep at the outpost. Never thought of Rick in the same way after that. A lot of shows I've seen lately (Dirty Black Bag, Succession) have no one to root for. Even most anti-heroes have some redeeming quality. Joel is acting like a psychopath to protect Ellie. The show is interesting enough to keep watching but only in a cold, cynical way.
Title: Re: Last of US HBO
Post by: Michaelnaut on March 15, 2023, 10:43:07 AM
I have to say I came into this series late because of the whole zombie comparison stuff, and boy was I impressed.  I don't want to say that this reminded me of the beginning seasons of TWD, but it was the focus on the two characters throughout that really pulled me in.  One could almost say that we grew closer with Ellie alongside Joel while watching the episodes of S1.

And I might be in the minority here, but...
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A great S1 all around.
Title: Re: Last of US HBO
Post by: foxbatkllr on March 26, 2023, 08:39:07 AM
It was a great adaptation and I can’t wait for season 2.  As someone who’s played the games, it’s been fun watching all the new people enter the discourse about Joel’s actions. 
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Title: Re: Last of US HBO
Post by: perc2100 on March 27, 2023, 09:14:20 AM
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It was a great adaptation and I can’t wait for season 2.  As someone who’s played the games, it’s been fun watching all the new people enter the discourse about Joel’s actions. 
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Yes, and Pedro Pascal played it _perfectly_ in the last scene, when
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: his subtle reaction while also trying to play it cool
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  And on the same hand, Bella Ramsey's body language
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was also brilliant acting: we know that she ultimately knows in her heart
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While the showrunners obviously had the video game blueprint to follow, that was such a great note to end the season: one that completely underscores the main theme of "humans will do anything to keep their tenuous grasp of love and companionship - both great and awful, and often in that 'grey' zone. 
Title: Re: Last of US HBO
Post by: foxbatkllr on March 27, 2023, 04:09:15 PM
The question for season 2/3 is (PT. 2 Spoilers)
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Title: Re: Last of US HBO
Post by: perc2100 on March 28, 2023, 11:46:23 AM
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The question for season 2/3 is (PT. 2 Spoilers)
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Title: Re: Last of US HBO
Post by: vpoulsen on April 19, 2023, 08:03:52 PM
Who else is having major Last of US withdrawal STILL?  What an amazing show!  I am so loving this love story of a father finding his love for a child again, and a child finding a parent to love and be loved by again.  It was just such a GOOD show.  My mom is 91 next week, they need to hurry up with Season 2, some of their fans are beating some odds of their own.  I am still so amused by how much my very hip and very alert and "with it" elderly mother was hooked on this show.  I am also looking forward to seeing some freaky awesome fungus heads at SDCC in a few months.  ha ha ha.
Title: Re: Last of US HBO
Post by: perc2100 on April 20, 2023, 10:54:46 AM
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Who else is having major Last of US withdrawal STILL?  What an amazing show!  I am so loving this love story of a father finding his love for a child again, and a child finding a parent to love and be loved by again.  It was just such a GOOD show.  My mom is 91 next week, they need to hurry up with Season 2, some of their fans are beating some odds of their own.  I am still so amused by how much my very hip and very alert and "with it" elderly mother was hooked on this show.  I am also looking forward to seeing some freaky awesome fungus heads at SDCC in a few months.  ha ha ha.
There has been almost a gluttony of "prestige TV/streaming" recently, so for me at least "The Last of Us" ended at a good time.  Mandalorian just ended a great season (with a season finale that feels like it _could_ be a series finale), Barry just kicked off its final season last weekend, Succession is about 1/3rd of the way through its final season, Ted Lasso is about halfway through its reported final season (with its most recent episode feeling like it's about to kick off where everything comes together, hopefully ending strong), etc.

The Last of Us is great, and I hate that we'll likely not see a new episode until maybe 2025 (though my 21 year old gamer kid reminds me that's FAR better than the 7 year wait between part 1 & part 2 game releases :-P ).  I'll probably revisit this season over the summer when thing die down a bit
Title: Re: Last of US HBO
Post by: vpoulsen on April 20, 2023, 11:02:10 AM
I am a sci fi junkie, so unless it's sci fi related, I am pretty much not interested, much.  Star Wars was just never a huge draw for me.  I know, not a popular pov, but I just never got into it.  I liked the original movies, but the second round, eh...not so much, and the third, even less.  Looking forward to Strange New Worlds this summer.