Author Topic: Reports & check ins in the age of Covid  (Read 127939 times)

Offline chocolateshake

  • Volunteer HQ
  • ******
  • Join Date: Dec 2016
  • Posts: 3270
  • Karma: 0
  • Liked: 1497
Re: Reports & check ins in the age of Covid
« Reply #1050 on: May 15, 2021, 01:08:10 AM »
I don't think anyone really thinks that the anti-maskers will suddenly become vaxxers.  If they think it's a hoax and thus they don't wear a mask, why would they get a shot?  There are also no plans to enforce masking for the unvaccinated.  Walmart flat out says that it's not even going to ask.  It's the honor system.  The anti-maskers have already shown they aren't honorable.  They didn't wear a mask when they got flack for it, why would they wear a mask now that they've won?

Which is the point.  We've been working up to this for a while now.  The talk of herd immunity has faded.  It's been replaced with covid being endemic.  What the CDC did yesterday was not a declaration of victory.  It was giving up.  For the most part, the people who are willing to get vaccinated have been vaccinated.  Most of the remaining aren't willing.  Nothing's going to change that.  There have been enough studies done, including on the variants, to conclude that the vaccines work well enough.  The vaccinated have a high degree of protection.  So we'll have two populations in the US.  The vaccinated and the infected.  It's up to each person to decide which group they want to be in.  Personally, I'm going to keep masking in public for the foreseeable future.  No variant has yet to reduce the effectiveness of that.  Which is as effective as any vaccine.

Offline puppy

  • Ballroom 20
  • ****
  • Join Date: Apr 2018
  • Posts: 675
  • Karma: 0
  • Liked: 251
Re: Reports & check ins in the age of Covid
« Reply #1051 on: May 15, 2021, 02:33:55 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
I don't think anyone really thinks that the anti-maskers will suddenly become vaxxers.  If they think it's a hoax and thus they don't wear a mask, why would they get a shot?  There are also no plans to enforce masking for the unvaccinated.  Walmart flat out says that it's not even going to ask.  It's the honor system.  The anti-maskers have already shown they aren't honorable.  They didn't wear a mask when they got flack for it, why would they wear a mask now that they've won?

Which is the point.  We've been working up to this for a while now.  The talk of herd immunity has faded.  It's been replaced with covid being endemic.  What the CDC did yesterday was not a declaration of victory.  It was giving up.  For the most part, the people who are willing to get vaccinated have been vaccinated.  Most of the remaining aren't willing.  Nothing's going to change that.  There have been enough studies done, including on the variants, to conclude that the vaccines work well enough.  The vaccinated have a high degree of protection.  So we'll have two populations in the US.  The vaccinated and the infected.  It's up to each person to decide which group they want to be in.  Personally, I'm going to keep masking in public for the foreseeable future.  No variant has yet to reduce the effectiveness of that.  Which is as effective as any vaccine.

Three populations: vaccinated, infected, and dead.

Friends of Comic Cons

  • Guest
Re: Reports & check ins in the age of Covid
« Reply #1052 on: Today at 04:59:34 AM »

Offline puppy

  • Ballroom 20
  • ****
  • Join Date: Apr 2018
  • Posts: 675
  • Karma: 0
  • Liked: 251
Re: Reports & check ins in the age of Covid
« Reply #1052 on: May 15, 2021, 02:35:04 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
It's laughable to think that non-vaccinated people will continue wearing masks if vaccinated people don't have to. Most of the anti-vaxxers are anti-mask anyway. If the CDC thinks the variants are harmless for the vaccinated, I guess we'll see.

I'll keep masking indoors. Don't want to be among the first vaccinated people here to catch a variant.

I don't know who at the CDC is dreaming that this new announcement will encourage anyone to get a vaccine. My only hope is that some of those people are contrarians. Maybe if the CDC says they have to stop wearing masks, they'll start wearing them to protect their right to wear them.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2021, 02:37:53 PM by puppy »

Offline perc2100

  • Volunteer HQ
  • ******
  • Join Date: Mar 2012
  • Posts: 4318
  • Karma: 0
  • Liked: 1770
Re: Reports & check ins in the age of Covid
« Reply #1053 on: May 15, 2021, 03:08:45 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Which is the same pretty much everywhere right now.  The exception being federal land.  The way it works is the states consider the federal recommendations and then issue their own.  Then counties issue theirs based on the state's.  Normally this takes a few days.  In California though, we may just wait until June 15th since the state was already scheduled to drop pretty much all restrictions on that date anyways. Businesses would appreciate it since many have already expressed concern about the quickness of the policy change.  Many have said that they will continue to have their own mask requirements for a while.  They could use the cover.  Although at my Target the big public safety notice posted out front now is about the prohibition on Pokemon cards.

The study came out a while ago.  I've talked about it before.  It was a study following thousands of vaccinated health care workers.

The irony is that yesterday when the CDC announced this new policy, the Yankees announced that 8 members of the team who had been vaccinated tested positive for covid.  Breakthroughs are thought to be rare.  But having so many people in a small bubble taking precautions seem to show otherwise.  My guess is that breakthroughs are common.  It's just that testing is down overall but testing is pretty non-existent among vaccinated people so we don't know.  The Yankees routinely test so that's why they found it.  Even though they test positive, they either have no symptoms or very mild symptoms so their viral load is probably not enough for them to be spreaders.  Which is what the CDC concluded yesterday.  Even if someone vaccinated catches covid, they probably won't be able to spread it.
About the Yankees thing:
* 1/8 had (mild) symptoms, the rest asymptomatic.
* 50ish are on the Yankees travel staff
* they all had the J&J vaccine which has LESS efficacy than the Moderna & Phizer (about 66% vs 94-95%)
* most of those who tested positive were staff or coaches, and spent quite a bit of time together in a tiny, poorly ventilated indoor office during a rain delay
* Yankees have 85%ish of their travel staff (players, coaches, support staff) vaccinated

So, one could make the conclusions:
* the vaccine 100% did its job here: minimal to zero symptoms w/0 hospitalization or fatalities
* roughly 16% of the travel staff became infected even though anyone who watches an MLB game knows how close the players & coaches are in a dugout throughout a game
* this would've likely been MUCH worse a year ago, or if more folks were unvaccinated

Even crazier than the amount of 'breakthrough' infections is one of them, a player, was vaccinated AND infected w/COVID last season!

As you said, the lack of positive test rates in vaccinated folks is likely because testing is still not great throughout US + lack of symptoms.  I read that study, as well as other data CDC has collected, and many of those that tested positive did so because they HAD to take the test, not because they were sick and got tested.  For example, my wife has to get tested every 2 weeks to go to her office in person.  It seems entirely plausible that given all evidence so far the vaccines are AMAZING and working as expected

Offline perc2100

  • Volunteer HQ
  • ******
  • Join Date: Mar 2012
  • Posts: 4318
  • Karma: 0
  • Liked: 1770
Re: Reports & check ins in the age of Covid
« Reply #1054 on: May 15, 2021, 03:15:18 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
It's laughable to think that non-vaccinated people will continue wearing masks if vaccinated people don't have to. Most of the anti-vaxxers are anti-mask anyway. If the CDC thinks the variants are harmless for the vaccinated, I guess we'll see.
BUT, here's the thing:
it's been said all along that masks aren't for the wearer to not get sick, they're mainly for the wearer to protect those they come in contact with from getting germs.  As someone fully vaccinated that knows it's a statistical anomaly that I'll get COVID, I have no problem if some idiot anti-vaxxer/anti-masker takes the risks and gets COVID.  I'll wear a mask indoors when I can't socially distance (and as per CA Department of Public Health orders every moment I'm on my campus at work) mostly because I enjoyed not getting a cold the last 14 months & out of respect for immunosuppressant folks & under 12 kids.  But I'm personally not going to lose sleep at this point over anti-science yahoos who don't want to get a vaccine.  I've had convos with some in public (one telling me they refuse to get a vaccine because they don't trust it and are careful about what they put in their body: as they smoked unfiltered cigarettes) and they're mostly flat-out dumb - a lot of the same idiots who are hoarding gas and not understanding that the gas prices are rising NOT because of any shortage, but because of demand - because people are stocking up on gas just as stupidly as they stocked up on toilet paper last spring! 

The science currently is pretty clear about how awesome the vaccine protects us from getting seriously ill & there's no reason for vaccinated people to likely need to wear mask at all times in public.  Those who want to risk their health out of stubbornness have the right to be stupid and will act accordingly

Offline Miclpea

  • Hall H
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jun 2015
  • Posts: 1129
  • Karma: 0
  • Liked: 350
Re: Reports & check ins in the age of Covid
« Reply #1055 on: May 16, 2021, 06:14:40 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
I don't think anyone really thinks that the anti-maskers will suddenly become vaxxers.  If they think it's a hoax and thus they don't wear a mask, why would they get a shot?  There are also no plans to enforce masking for the unvaccinated.  Walmart flat out says that it's not even going to ask.  It's the honor system.  The anti-maskers have already shown they aren't honorable.  They didn't wear a mask when they got flack for it, why would they wear a mask now that they've won?

Which is the point.  We've been working up to this for a while now.  The talk of herd immunity has faded.  It's been replaced with covid being endemic.  What the CDC did yesterday was not a declaration of victory.  It was giving up.  For the most part, the people who are willing to get vaccinated have been vaccinated.  Most of the remaining aren't willing.  Nothing's going to change that.  There have been enough studies done, including on the variants, to conclude that the vaccines work well enough.  The vaccinated have a high degree of protection.  So we'll have two populations in the US.  The vaccinated and the infected.  It's up to each person to decide which group they want to be in.  Personally, I'm going to keep masking in public for the foreseeable future.  No variant has yet to reduce the effectiveness of that.  Which is as effective as any vaccine.
I agree.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Offline puppy

  • Ballroom 20
  • ****
  • Join Date: Apr 2018
  • Posts: 675
  • Karma: 0
  • Liked: 251
Re: Reports & check ins in the age of Covid
« Reply #1056 on: May 16, 2021, 09:19:57 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
BUT, here's the thing:
it's been said all along that masks aren't for the wearer to not get sick,

This part has been proven wrong. Masks do provide some protection to wearers.

Offline puppy

  • Ballroom 20
  • ****
  • Join Date: Apr 2018
  • Posts: 675
  • Karma: 0
  • Liked: 251
Re: Reports & check ins in the age of Covid
« Reply #1057 on: May 16, 2021, 09:21:04 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
BUT, here's the thing:
it's been said all along that masks aren't for the wearer to not get sick, they're mainly for the wearer to protect those they come in contact with from getting germs.  As someone fully vaccinated that knows it's a statistical anomaly that I'll get COVID, I have no problem if some idiot anti-vaxxer/anti-masker takes the risks and gets COVID.  I'll wear a mask indoors when I can't socially distance (and as per CA Department of Public Health orders every moment I'm on my campus at work) mostly because I enjoyed not getting a cold the last 14 months & out of respect for immunosuppressant folks & under 12 kids.  But I'm personally not going to lose sleep at this point over anti-science yahoos who don't want to get a vaccine.  I've had convos with some in public (one telling me they refuse to get a vaccine because they don't trust it and are careful about what they put in their body: as they smoked unfiltered cigarettes) and they're mostly flat-out dumb - a lot of the same idiots who are hoarding gas and not understanding that the gas prices are rising NOT because of any shortage, but because of demand - because people are stocking up on gas just as stupidly as they stocked up on toilet paper last spring! 

The science currently is pretty clear about how awesome the vaccine protects us from getting seriously ill & there's no reason for vaccinated people to likely need to wear mask at all times in public.  Those who want to risk their health out of stubbornness have the right to be stupid and will act accordingly

But here's the thing: I don't worry about myself because I'm vaccinated. I don't worry about the anti-vaxxer/anti-maskers because they don't care about themselves. I want to continue enforcing a a mask ordinance because I worry about the people who can't get vaccinated--the people who will be infected by those loonies.

Offline chocolateshake

  • Volunteer HQ
  • ******
  • Join Date: Dec 2016
  • Posts: 3270
  • Karma: 0
  • Liked: 1497
Re: Reports & check ins in the age of Covid
« Reply #1058 on: May 16, 2021, 12:00:45 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
BUT, here's the thing:
it's been said all along that masks aren't for the wearer to not get sick, they're mainly for the wearer to protect those they come in contact with from getting germs.

Unfortunately that's some of the disinformation from US public health that has stuck.  Masks protect both the wearer and everyone else around them.  Yes it may be better at preventing an infected person from spreading than keep someone from becoming infected, but one doesn't preclude the other.  There's a 100 years of science about that.  The 1918 pandemic was the big real world example.  There were people that wore masks in 1918 and those who didn't.  The flu rampaged through the people that didn't wear masks.

When the US recommended that the general public not wear masks, it was in contradiction to pretty much all other public health organizations in the rest of the world.  Many of who said "Why aren't you wearing masks?  This is a respiratory illness."  The countries that took that advice to heart have been effectively covid free for a year.  All without a vaccine.  Those countries still haven't been vaccinated that much.  Their populations don't see the point.  They don't have a covid problem.

There's a reason healthcare workers in a covid ward wear masks even though they are fully vaccinated.  Masks when worn properly are about 90%+ effective.  The same as the covid vaccines.  Years of study about masking wearing and respiratory illnesses show that.  The recent covid specific study confirmed it.  So why did the CDC and others in the US say that the general public didn't need to wear masks.  I think it's because of 2 reasons.  First, we had a serious mask shortage.  They wanted to keep the supply for the people that really needed it, the frontline healthcare workers.  Instead of telling people that it wasn't necessary for the general public to wear masks, they could have said to wear anything you can.  If you can't get a N95 wear a surgical masks or wrap a t-shirt up over your mouth and nose.  Do something.  Instead they told us to skip the mask and just wash our hands.  In the end surface contact transmission is what is rare and respiratory transmission is the main route.  Which is the opposite of the recommendation they gave us.

The second reason that public health took the stance it took is political.  Contrary to the claims otherwise, politics play into what they do.  As has been proven by the emails that have been released, they were under a lot of pressure by the last administration to downplay the pandemic.  Telling everyone to wear masks doesn't help to downplay it.  Politics played into their decision to recommend no mask.  They went from it's not time yet, to let's pull the mask recommendation all within a couple of days.  What happened during that time was a serious grilling about their mask policy on the hill.  Then their was that abrupt announcement.  Followed a day later by the head of the CDC saying they would work toward policy to implement it.  Generally it's a good idea to make the policy first so that's it's ready to go when you make the announcement.  It all has the appearance of a knee jerk decision.

That healthcare worker study that showed that fully vaccinated people have a very low chance of catching covid is legit.  But the CDC is leaving out one big factor.  Those healthcare workers were fully vaccinated AND they religiously wore masks.  I'm keeping my mask on for the foreseeable future.

Offline omraged9

  • Ballroom 20
  • ****
  • Join Date: Jan 2014
  • Posts: 815
  • Karma: 0
  • Liked: 242
Re: Reports & check ins in the age of Covid
« Reply #1059 on: May 16, 2021, 07:41:21 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
I'll keep masking indoors. Don't want to be among the first vaccinated people here to catch a variant.

I don't know who at the CDC is dreaming that this new announcement will encourage anyone to get a vaccine. My only hope is that some of those people are contrarians. Maybe if the CDC says they have to stop wearing masks, they'll start wearing them to protect their right to wear them.

I'm going to keep masking indoors too. Outdoors even it's socially distanced, I'm not as worried about unless I'm attending some sports game.

Yeah I'm disappointed in CDC's new stance. It feels like they jumped the gun. If the newest studies showed that the variants aren't a concern at all, then I'd be ok with their stance. But we haven't seen that data yet. It almost seems like the CDC gave in too quickly because they wanted to reward people who got vaccinated with no-mask requirements anymore. They didn't think seem to think about the anti-mask/anti-vaxxer side who'd dump their masks in a second now with the new mandate. I don't see how this will lead to herd immunity if most people aren't wearing masks anymore.

Offline omraged9

  • Ballroom 20
  • ****
  • Join Date: Jan 2014
  • Posts: 815
  • Karma: 0
  • Liked: 242
Re: Reports & check ins in the age of Covid
« Reply #1060 on: May 16, 2021, 07:48:33 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
BUT, here's the thing:
it's been said all along that masks aren't for the wearer to not get sick, they're mainly for the wearer to protect those they come in contact with from getting germs.  As someone fully vaccinated that knows it's a statistical anomaly that I'll get COVID, I have no problem if some idiot anti-vaxxer/anti-masker takes the risks and gets COVID.  I'll wear a mask indoors when I can't socially distance (and as per CA Department of Public Health orders every moment I'm on my campus at work) mostly because I enjoyed not getting a cold the last 14 months & out of respect for immunosuppressant folks & under 12 kids.  But I'm personally not going to lose sleep at this point over anti-science yahoos who don't want to get a vaccine.  I've had convos with some in public (one telling me they refuse to get a vaccine because they don't trust it and are careful about what they put in their body: as they smoked unfiltered cigarettes) and they're mostly flat-out dumb - a lot of the same idiots who are hoarding gas and not understanding that the gas prices are rising NOT because of any shortage, but because of demand - because people are stocking up on gas just as stupidly as they stocked up on toilet paper last spring! 

The science currently is pretty clear about how awesome the vaccine protects us from getting seriously ill & there's no reason for vaccinated people to likely need to wear mask at all times in public.  Those who want to risk their health out of stubbornness have the right to be stupid and will act accordingly

I feel we need to look at the bigger picture in all of this. Yes the majority of vaccinated people won't be hurt by the change in mandate but our immunity will not last forever. Covid will continue mutating and it can mutate to a point where our current vaccine may not be as protective anymore. We need to reach herd immunity to stop the pandemic completely and the only way to cut down the number of covid infections drastically. We should also respect that there are some who legitimately for health reasons cannot get the vaccine (immunocompromised, allergic to the vaccine ingredients, etc.) and the mask mandate change is putting their lives in danger too. The thing that puzzles me with the whole anti-mask craze is that wearing a mask is such a harmless, minorly inconvenient thing to wear. It barely costs anything especially if you wear a cloth mask and it can protect your life and protect other people's lives. What's the harm in continuing to wear one for the next several months until we get more info about the variants?

Offline chocolateshake

  • Volunteer HQ
  • ******
  • Join Date: Dec 2016
  • Posts: 3270
  • Karma: 0
  • Liked: 1497
Re: Reports & check ins in the age of Covid
« Reply #1061 on: May 17, 2021, 01:59:14 PM »
In another example of dropping precautions too early, the Seychelles reports are worrying.  The Seychelles is the world's most vaccinated country.  More than 60% of their population has been fully vaccinated with 2 doses.  So much that their government decided to drop their guard.  The WHO warned them, and others, that vaccinations alone are not enough to defeat covid.  It's just one tool in the toolbox.  Masking, social distancing and other precautions need to be maintained.  They didn't listen.  Now they are experiencing a surge.  The worrying part is that 37% of the people testing positive are the fully vaccinated.  The Seychelles used both Chinese and Indian vaccines.  So of course, some people brought up that those vaccines must not work.  But the data shows otherwise.  None of the vaccinated have died.  Only a few of the vaccinated have been hospitalized with relatively mild symptoms.  The vaccines did complete phase III trials which showed they are effective against serious illness.  The real world data seems to confirm that.

What the concern is, as with the 8 vaccinated members of the Yankees, is that breakthroughs are common.  We just don't know because we don't test the vaccinated.  Where they do, they find that the vaccinated can and do get infected.  So now the Seychelles is doing what Chile had to do.  Which is to re-institute precautions.  We aren't even as vaccinated as the other countries that dropped masking early.  Let's hope things work out better here.

Offline Transmute Jun

  • Stan Lee's Hospitality Suite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Mar 2012
  • Posts: 23722
  • Karma: 5
  • Queen of the Bird Missiles
  • Liked: 9714
Re: Reports & check ins in the age of Covid
« Reply #1062 on: May 17, 2021, 09:02:02 PM »
I found this quiz really interesting.

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Offline Chris

  • Global Moderator
  • Volunteer HQ
  • *****
  • Join Date: Nov 2011
  • Posts: 7017
  • Karma: 0
  • Liked: 1792
Re: Reports & check ins in the age of Covid
« Reply #1063 on: May 17, 2021, 10:06:36 PM »
I haven't been keeping up with this thread, but some general thoughts:

--I'm concerned that some people will treat the vaccine as something that makes them invulnerable which it won't. It reduces odds but people will still get the virus

--We don't know how long vaccines will work or if new variants might not be covered

--Masks are an inconvenience, but in the light of a global viral pandemic, its a small inconvenience

--We're all tired of this new norm but a virus doesn't get tired or care that we're tired

--While the odds are reduced by the vaccine, there is still a risk of death, hospitalization, huge hospital bills, or long term covid impacts.  While the vaccine seems to be doing well against current variants its efficacy against new variants is not known.

All that being said, I'm wearing a mask until it is definitely safe to not to.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2021, 02:27:37 PM by Chris »

Offline dolphina

  • Supporter
  • Volunteer HQ
  • ******
  • Join Date: Mar 2013
  • Posts: 3798
  • Karma: 0
  • Live Long and Prosper
  • Liked: 1399
Re: Reports & check ins in the age of Covid
« Reply #1064 on: May 19, 2021, 05:54:29 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
I haven't been keeping up with this thread, but some general thoughts:

--I'm concerned that some people will treat the vaccine as something that makes them invulnerable which it won't. It reduces odds but people will still get the virus

--We don't know how long vaccines will work or if new variants might not be covered

--Masks are an inconvenience, but in the light of a global viral pandemic, its a small inconvenience

--We're all tired of this new norm but a virus doesn't get tired or care that we're tired

--While the odds are reduced by the vaccine, there is still a risk of death, hospitalization, huge hospital bills, or long term covid impacts.  While the vaccine seems to be doing well against current variants its efficacy against new variants is not known.

All that being said, I'm wearing a mask until it is definitely safe to not to.
I totally agree with you. There is still so much that is not known that I prefer to go on the side of caution.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
A straight line may be the shortest distance between two points, but it is by no means the most interesting”

Wondercon, SDCC, Comikazi, Blizzcon, SWCA, D23