Author Topic: Salt Lake City Comic Con Issues Apology for Poor Planning  (Read 9241 times)

Offline alyssa

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Re: Sat Lake City Comic Con Issues Apology for Poor Planning
« Reply #30 on: September 09, 2014, 01:22:14 PM »
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I agree that right now that guest-wise they're not close to NYCC and it would do them good to do the above suggestions that have to with event planning. I can't be too harsh on them for raising prices -- hasn't SDCC raised prices 3 of the past 4 years? (Including a $105 to $150-$175 jump for 4 day passes without/with PN from 2011-2012) Their attendance formula sounds transparent enough -- organizers have said that the attendance formula is based on X tickets sold + 0.5x estimated kids. How is that not transparent? Whether or not SLCC had that many kids show up is a different issue. That's a more transparent formula than CCI who gives no ticket sales numbers, no formula, and vague estimations for their shows. Also, after the first show the big banner on their page said "50,000 tickets sold". They then announced an estimated 70-80,000 people, so I figured the rest were kids/exhibitors/etc.

the only thing i've every said abt tickets is the suggestion that sLcc stabilize their prices.  with most con's we fan's have a good idea of what the prices will be the following year.  There isn't a radical jump. 
I have no problem with a con charging what the market will tolerate.

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What I meant by saying that I think SLCC is the best chance we have at giving SDCC competition is not that it's there now, but that it has the most potential to be the next "buzz" con. I could tell from the first few months after announcing they would create a show that SLCC was not messing around. They'd already created enormous momentum for their first show. They reached big numbers quickly, a key factor in getting big guests for future shows. They have the city and state fully behind them (the governor even met Stan Lee at the tarmac for the first show). They have the ability to take over the downtown and beyond during con weekend, like SDCC does -- and in my mind this is VERY important. It'll be easy for Salt Lake as the city already has experience with this, during Sundance. Emerald City, Denver, and Phoenix could also have this ability (Emerald City was making great strides towards this in 2012 but IMO took a step backwards in 2013)...NYCC does not, SF not really, I don't think Anaheim does either as it's overshadowed by Disney.

that actually is good to hear,  i have to admit i really like how all of SD get's into comic con mode. I do find it missing in midtown NYC at NYCC-

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I would rather have not seen the SLCC vs. SDCC catfight just yet -- but SLCC got swept into it when CCI chose to single them out in the lawsuit, so I can't fault them too much. CCI is going at it from a completely wrong angle. If they want to attempt to trademark "Comic Con" then I would welcome their attempt as SDCC is the original and most prestigious, but as I understand it, to protect your brand you are legally obligated to defend it against ALL known infringements. You can't pick and choose which unaffiliated organizations are deserving of being allowed to use "Comic Con."
We might have to agree to disagree on this one- imo, cci didn't really have a choice.  personally i don't think it's abt the use of 'comic con',  lots of other conventions use "comic con" but they don't attempt to conflate their con's with CCI's conventions.  To my mind that is the crux of the matter. It's a matter of protecting CCI's brand.
For example & I usually get into a lot of hot water when i argue by analogy, if you owned & put on an event for years.  Another group started doing the same type of event with a logo close to yours & was not clear that they were a different organization.  Would you feel the need to separate yourself from them in the public eye?  To my mind that's closer to what's going on then the law suite abt teh words 'comic con'
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Offline ComicGirl

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Re: Sat Lake City Comic Con Issues Apology for Poor Planning
« Reply #31 on: September 09, 2014, 01:54:28 PM »
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I agree that right now that guest-wise they're not close to NYCC and it would do them good to do the above suggestions that have to with event planning. I can't be too harsh on them for raising prices -- hasn't SDCC raised prices 3 of the past 4 years? (Including a $105 to $150-$175 jump for 4 day passes without/with PN from 2011-2012) Their attendance formula sounds transparent enough -- organizers have said that the attendance formula is based on X tickets sold + 0.5x estimated kids. How is that not transparent? Whether or not SLCC had that many kids show up is a different issue. That's a more transparent formula than CCI who gives no ticket sales numbers, no formula, and vague estimations for their shows. Also, after the first show the big banner on their page said "50,000 tickets sold". They then announced an estimated 70-80,000 people, so I figured the rest were kids/exhibitors/etc.

What I meant by saying that I think SLCC is the best chance we have at giving SDCC competition is not that it's there now, but that it has the most potential to be the next "buzz" con. I could tell from the first few months after announcing they would create a show that SLCC was not messing around. They'd already created enormous momentum for their first show. They reached big numbers quickly, a key factor in getting big guests for future shows. They have the city and state fully behind them (the governor even met Stan Lee at the tarmac for the first show). They have the ability to take over the downtown and beyond during con weekend, like SDCC does -- and in my mind this is VERY important. It'll be easy for Salt Lake as the city already has experience with this, during Sundance. Emerald City, Denver, and Phoenix could also have this ability (Emerald City was making great strides towards this in 2012 but IMO took a step backwards in 2013)...NYCC does not, SF not really, I don't think Anaheim does either as it's overshadowed by Disney.

I would rather have not seen the SLCC vs. SDCC catfight just yet -- but SLCC got swept into it when CCI chose to single them out in the lawsuit, so I can't fault them too much. CCI is going at it from a completely wrong angle. If they want to attempt to trademark "Comic Con" then I would welcome their attempt as SDCC is the original and most prestigious, but as I understand it, to protect your brand you are legally obligated to defend it against ALL known infringements. You can't pick and choose which unaffiliated organizations are deserving of being allowed to use "Comic Con."

Did you go to the show? Momentum, numbers, and slick graphics are one thing, but does the show live up to the self-generated "buzz"? I think that is the question here.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2014, 01:57:25 PM by ComicGirl »

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Re: Salt Lake City Comic Con Issues Apology for Poor Planning
« Reply #32 on: Today at 07:31:19 PM »

Offline YouThinkMeMad

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Re: Sat Lake City Comic Con Issues Apology for Poor Planning
« Reply #32 on: September 09, 2014, 01:59:00 PM »
I've been to one really bad con before. It was small (I was able to see everything in about 30 minutes), photo ops were poorly ran, no real vendors yet I heard people going on about how it was the best con they had ever been to. So yeah, I take everything with a huge grain of salt.

Offline hikanteki

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Re: Sat Lake City Comic Con Issues Apology for Poor Planning
« Reply #33 on: September 09, 2014, 02:56:00 PM »
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Did you go to the show? Momentum, numbers, and slick graphics are one thing, but does the show live up to the self-generated "buzz"? I think that is the question here.

No, I did not. Did you? I'm basing what I'm saying on observations, stats, numbers, posts, marketing, anecdotes, word of mouth, etc as compared to that of other cons I haven't been to.
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Offline theresamather

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Re: Sat Lake City Comic Con Issues Apology for Poor Planning
« Reply #34 on: September 09, 2014, 03:29:07 PM »
hikanteki- I had a booth at both SLCC shows and I have one at SDCC most years. I also do cons all over the country professionally and have for decades. I have no problem saying that as a vendor and in my professional opinion, SLCC was without a doubt the absolute worst run and most unprofessional con I have ever attended or sold at. I am not alone in this opinion as a vendor.

This show has potential because of the huge crowds it can draw but they will need to make major changes very quickly or it will just be a rolling repeating nightmare to sell at.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2014, 03:34:09 PM by theresamather »

Offline hikanteki

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Re: Sat Lake City Comic Con Issues Apology for Poor Planning
« Reply #35 on: September 09, 2014, 04:02:40 PM »
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We might have to agree to disagree on this one- imo, cci didn't really have a choice.  personally i don't think it's abt the use of 'comic con',  lots of other conventions use "comic con" but they don't attempt to conflate their con's with CCI's conventions.  To my mind that is the crux of the matter. It's a matter of protecting CCI's brand.
For example & I usually get into a lot of hot water when i argue by analogy, if you owned & put on an event for years.  Another group started doing the same type of event with a logo close to yours & was not clear that they were a different organization.  Would you feel the need to separate yourself from them in the public eye?  To my mind that's closer to what's going on then the law suite abt teh words 'comic con'

For the record I'm not opposed at all to the idea of CCI making it clear that it's not associated with sLcc (or any con with any other unaffiliated con) but I still think a lawsuit over the name is not the right way to go about it especially when there are dozens of cons with a similar name. I actually think they'd have a much stronger case if the C&D had originally been against their logo. Do you think their main reason for filing the lawsuit was less about using the term "Comic Con" itself and more about public disassociation? That's an interesting theory. But if that's the case, I think it would have been simpler and less costly (not to mention less dramatic) to just issue a statement.
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Offline ComicGirl

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Re: Sat Lake City Comic Con Issues Apology for Poor Planning
« Reply #36 on: September 09, 2014, 05:35:15 PM »
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For the record I'm not opposed at all to the idea of CCI making it clear that it's not associated with sLcc (or any con with any other unaffiliated con) but I still think a lawsuit over the name is not the right way to go about it especially when there are dozens of cons with a similar name. I actually think they'd have a much stronger case if the C&D had originally been against their logo. Do you think their main reason for filing the lawsuit was less about using the term "Comic Con" itself and more about public disassociation? That's an interesting theory. But if that's the case, I think it would have been simpler and less costly (not to mention less dramatic) to just issue a statement.

When you read the C&D letter sent, I think it mentions on several occasions that SDCC is concerned about the confusion of people mistaking SLCC as part of the SDCC family of events. In particular they mention that SLCC has tried to purposefully confuse attendees (the car, the use of comic-con without putting "Salt Lake" in front of the name, etc.) and trade off the Comic-Con name to get more exhibitors, attendees, and sponsorship. I don't think it has anything to do with the name itself, which is why they are only going after SLCC. I think SLCC is intentionally blurring the lines between the two events to get more business and SDCC would be fine if they used any other name (Salt Lake Comics Fest, Salt Lake Comic Convention, Salt Lake Super Show, whatever).

At least that is the way I read the C&D, but I'm sure it is subjective and I can't read the minds of the folks at Comic-Con




Offline ComicGirl

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Re: Sat Lake City Comic Con Issues Apology for Poor Planning
« Reply #37 on: September 09, 2014, 05:40:32 PM »
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No, I did not. Did you? I'm basing what I'm saying on observations, stats, numbers, posts, marketing, anecdotes, word of mouth, etc as compared to that of other cons I haven't been to.

I did not, but have been actively monitoring the feedback on their FB and in the blogs. I didn't ask you that question in a condescending tone, so I apologize of it came off that way. I really do.  I was generally trying to understand what prompted you to make the statement:

"What I meant by saying that I think SLCC is the best chance we have at giving SDCC competition is not that it's there now, but that it has the most potential to be the next "buzz" con. I could tell from the first few months after announcing they would create a show that SLCC was not messing around. They'd already created enormous momentum for their first show. They reached big numbers quickly, a key factor in getting big guests for future shows. "

Buzz is one thing, and SLCC has generated a ton, but is the PRODUCT they are putting out worthy of the buzz and the numbers they are getting? And how many of those free tickets they gave away contribute to the positive buzz? Even more so, how does the fact that SLCC is partnered with both a Salt Lake news station AND their major newspaper play into their coverage? Is the "buzz" really coming from attendees, or from glowing reports from their partner stations?

That's why I asked if you attended. I wanted to know if what they are pumping out is worth all the media frenzy currently around this show? Or is it all just self-promotion?


EDIT
This guy said it way better than I am trying to, LOL:

"I wouldn’t believe anything a con organizer says about their own convention. And since the Salt Lake Tribune and the Deseret News own the convention along with Farr I probably wouldn’t believe anything they publish about the con either. Those local TV news pieces just repeat the same lines the paper and Farr have been spreading. I would however believe the exhibitors and fans who went to the con and are providing their feedback. But you’ll have to hurry if you want those opinions since negative comments have a habit of getting erased from the Salt Lake City Comic Con’s Facebook page. Here’s a quote from the event that helps sum it up,
“I love Salt Lake City. They have the best comic con in the world.” -Stan Lee
“Talk about being proud. When you get that kind of kudos from Stan Lee, you’re doing something right,”
-Bryan Brandenburg
Did Stan Lee forget he owns an interest in Stan Lee’s Comikaze?
I think Salt Lake Comic Con and Comikaze have more in common than just Stan Lee’s accolades. Both are exploitive cons that use the passion of fans for the genre to drive up attendance and get national coverage for their poorly run events. How many poorly run cons with 75k plus people does it to become evident that these are not “growing pains” but in fact just the way the con does business?"



« Last Edit: September 09, 2014, 05:47:18 PM by ComicGirl »

Offline hikanteki

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Re: Sat Lake City Comic Con Issues Apology for Poor Planning
« Reply #38 on: September 10, 2014, 10:15:29 AM »
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hikanteki- I had a booth at both SLCC shows and I have one at SDCC most years. I also do cons all over the country professionally and have for decades. I have no problem saying that as a vendor and in my professional opinion, SLCC was without a doubt the absolute worst run and most unprofessional con I have ever attended or sold at. I am not alone in this opinion as a vendor.

This show has potential because of the huge crowds it can draw but they will need to make major changes very quickly or it will just be a rolling repeating nightmare to sell at.

Thanks for keeping us posted! I’m sorry to hear about all the headaches you’ve encountered, but I am glad that despite that, your sales were decent.
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Offline Transmute Jun

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Re: Sat Lake City Comic Con Issues Apology for Poor Planning
« Reply #39 on: September 10, 2014, 10:17:38 AM »
Theresa, I also appreciate the firsthand reports.

I guess the real question is, would you exhibit there again next year?

Offline theresamather

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Re: Sat Lake City Comic Con Issues Apology for Poor Planning
« Reply #40 on: September 10, 2014, 11:38:15 AM »
I'll give a fuzzy answer to what should be a simple question.

Because I fought aggressively for my location in advance, I had a reasonably good spot and made money. I want this event to succeed- it's close to me, costs relatively little in travel expenses for me to do, and the cashflow comes at a good time of year- since my income is so seasonal, I need to be putting my acorns away for winter by September because I essentially have no income for two months each year. December is event free for us and I have literary cons I ship art to in January but it takes awhile to get paid for them, so the more money I make in fall, the less of a starving waif shivering in the garret I am by the time I start getting paid again (I'm grossly exaggerating my plight here, but that's the psychology behind it. :P )

Other vendors arrived at SLCC to find they had been moved without notification, or that there was no booth where they were supposed to be  ( as one guy put it, "there are trucks driving through the area where my booth was supposed to be"). There was no functional map to the bizarre disjointed layout of the halls, so no one could find the vendors and artists they were looking for- even staff couldn't figure out who was where when they were trying to figure it out in order to make sure everyone had their tax forms. It took me literally two days to find a guest of the con in a quad booth, and they were tucked in the worst possible location that one can imagine from a vendor standpoint. Other booths were tucked behind columns or in dead aisles with no line of sight- there were many many horrid locations, there were no booth numbers on many booths, no rational grid layout and no map to help anyone find most vendor locations. MLM scams and bunyon treatment booths took up space, big promo trucks were parked in front of and blocking booths, and things like wrestling rings and loud stages made conducting business impossible in whole sections of the floor. It was, in short, a vendor nightmare.

That said, I will do it, and I will try to work with them to try to get some of the issues dealt with because they will absolutely collapse this event in time if they don't, and I will fight to stay in a similar location. If I end up in the crappy alcove at the back of the hall or any other type of location which I have nightmares about, I will be kicking myself and swearing at myself for having subjected myself to it. I want this event to succeed for the reasons I've stated previously so I'm willing to put one more year into it with the understanding that I'm making myself a willing dupe in the situation. I may make money again, but I may land flat on my butt and angry as hell, in which case, Utahn or not, I will officially raise both middle fingers and invite the whole damn event to kiss my hind end. I'll be sure to charge a dollar per kiss, though, so I can fit in with the level and theme of some of the off topic vendors that were scattered around the exhibit hall floor. :P

Offline Chris

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Re: Sat Lake City Comic Con Issues Apology for Poor Planning
« Reply #41 on: September 10, 2014, 11:44:04 AM »
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I will officially raise both middle fingers and invite the whole damn event to kiss my hind end. I'll be sure to charge a dollar per kiss, though

Completely out of context, this is officially the Forum Quote of the Day.  :)

Offline hikanteki

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Re: Sat Lake City Comic Con Issues Apology for Poor Planning
« Reply #42 on: September 10, 2014, 11:44:55 AM »
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I did not, but have been actively monitoring the feedback on their FB and in the blogs. I didn't ask you that question in a condescending tone, so I apologize of it came off that way. I really do.  I was generally trying to understand what prompted you to make the statement:

"What I meant by saying that I think SLCC is the best chance we have at giving SDCC competition is not that it's there now, but that it has the most potential to be the next "buzz" con. I could tell from the first few months after announcing they would create a show that SLCC was not messing around. They'd already created enormous momentum for their first show. They reached big numbers quickly, a key factor in getting big guests for future shows. "

Buzz is one thing, and SLCC has generated a ton, but is the PRODUCT they are putting out worthy of the buzz and the numbers they are getting? And how many of those free tickets they gave away contribute to the positive buzz? Even more so, how does the fact that SLCC is partnered with both a Salt Lake news station AND their major newspaper play into their coverage? Is the "buzz" really coming from attendees, or from glowing reports from their partner stations?

That's why I asked if you attended. I wanted to know if what they are pumping out is worth all the media frenzy currently around this show? Or is it all just self-promotion?

Thanks, and no offense taken. :) I apologize too if I came off as snarky.

I’ve been actively monitoring feedback on FB and blogs too. I can’t say whether or not the product is worth of the buzz. That’s why I say that it "has the potential" to be the next buzz con, not that it “is” the buzz con at this point. Asking about why I think there’s buzz is a fair question and I’ll try my best to explain why:

The marketing campaign has been very slick and effective. They hit the ground running with it, and it worked. I’ve seen plenty of shares from their page from many of my FB friends, mostly ones that don’t live in SLC or Utah.

Yes, their partnership with the news station and newspaper contributes to the buzz. As someone who works partially in marketing, I have seen what wonders an effective media campaign, especially with major outlets, can do for a product. I’m not so much referring to the glowing reviews published in these outlets, but rather, the outlets themselves -- the fact that SLCC has access to these outlets and is able to reach a potential audience and make them aware of SLCC. If he can build relationships with promoters/agents like he’s done with media, then this will be key.

Their attendance was massive. 50,000+ tickets sold for their first show and it’s only gone up -- for being in a relatively small and very isolated market as SLC, getting that big of attendance is no small feat. They rode the momentum to make another new, even more well attended show barely 6 months later.

Their first (and subsequent) cons have been no SDCC or NYCC guest-wise, but still, you don’t get Adam West, Burt Ward, William Shatner, Cary Elwes (who actually showed up), Manu Bennett, Patrick Stewart, William Shatner, Stan Lee etc at just any first or second year cons either. (well maybe Stan Lee as he’s been appearing pretty much everywhere except SDCC these days)

I gather from individual reviews (including Billy and Theresa in these forums) that there is a tremendous amount of enthusiasm among attendees for this show. This could be due to the fact that the market has been waiting long for a big comic con, but nonetheless, it’s there. Although my ‘strategy’ of reading and analyzing FB and forum posts and blogs is admittedly unscientific, I gather that there’s more enthusiasm for SLCC than cons in a similar range.

I touched on this in a previous post, but I’m going to mention it in this list because I think it’s an important point that SLCC has the city and state behind them and is well-equipped to turn downtown into a con-campus.

Are they doing everything right? No, and I don’t mean to gloss over their serious issues that have come up. Becoming the next buzz con will be contingent on fixing these. As far as lines goes, they seemed to make pretty quick progress between Thursday and Friday, although I can’t say I’m a fan of the Twitter/FB person’s response to some of the angry customers after the show. It also does concern me about how they treat exhibitors -- it seems like that’s something they have total control over (unlike, say, the lines, which aren’t cool but more excusable than the exhibitor mess.) If Farr is a good businessman, he’s going to realize that in order to have a successful product you can’t anger the people who spend money on it. Hopefully he can fix the problems, get better organized, and play his cards right -- he’s already accomplished more than most first year cons and there are a lot of unique ’soft’ factors positively impacting SLCC that it would be a shame to waste.
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Offline hikanteki

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Re: Sat Lake City Comic Con Issues Apology for Poor Planning
« Reply #43 on: September 10, 2014, 12:05:00 PM »
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When you read the C&D letter sent, I think it mentions on several occasions that SDCC is concerned about the confusion of people mistaking SLCC as part of the SDCC family of events. In particular they mention that SLCC has tried to purposefully confuse attendees (the car, the use of comic-con without putting "Salt Lake" in front of the name, etc.) and trade off the Comic-Con name to get more exhibitors, attendees, and sponsorship. I don't think it has anything to do with the name itself, which is why they are only going after SLCC. I think SLCC is intentionally blurring the lines between the two events to get more business and SDCC would be fine if they used any other name (Salt Lake Comics Fest, Salt Lake Comic Convention, Salt Lake Super Show, whatever).

At least that is the way I read the C&D, but I'm sure it is subjective and I can't read the minds of the folks at Comic-Con

I will have to agree to disagree with you here also. If it’s not about the name, then they have no case requesting they change their name. The request is clear: that SLCC immediately discontinues using any variation of “Comic Con,” removes it completely from their website, and hands over their current domain name (saltlakecomiccon.com) to CCI.

The bulk of the C&D appears to be them being upset at SLCC driving its car around San Diego. They didn’t like SLCC’s brand of Maverick advertising, but don’t have any legal recourse, because, driving a car with your show’s name on it on public roads is not illegal. They’d probably have a case if SLCC was doing an unauthorized form of advertising inside the convention center during SDCC, but saying “you drove your car around San Diego; therefore you cannot use any variation of Comic Con” is, in my opinion an extremely weak, even illogical argument. (Not to mention, I want to know who exactly assumed that just because they saw the car in San Diego automatically assumed that it was owned by CCI. It seems like a silly assumption.)

There are people who automatically assume that everything called “Comic Con” is run by the same organization, but once they find out that there are different people that put on different comic cons, they accept it easily. I don’t see a car swaying someone’s opinion, before or after.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2014, 12:12:09 PM by hikanteki »
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Offline ComicGirl

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Re: Sat Lake City Comic Con Issues Apology for Poor Planning
« Reply #44 on: September 10, 2014, 12:56:33 PM »
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MLM scams and bunyon treatment booths took up space, big promo trucks were parked in front of and blocking booths, and things like wrestling rings and loud stages made conducting business impossible in whole sections of the floor. It was, in short, a vendor nightmare.

That said, I will do it, and I will try to work with them to try to get some of the issues dealt with because they will absolutely collapse this event in time if they don't, and I will fight to stay in a similar location. If I end up in the crappy alcove at the back of the hall or any other type of location which I have nightmares about, I will be kicking myself and swearing at myself for having subjected myself to it. I want this event to succeed for the reasons I've stated previously so I'm willing to put one more year into it with the understanding that I'm making myself a willing dupe in the situation. I may make money again, but I may land flat on my butt and angry as hell, in which case, Utahn or not, I will officially raise both middle fingers and invite the whole damn event to kiss my hind end. I'll be sure to charge a dollar per kiss, though, so I can fit in with the level and theme of some of the off topic vendors that were scattered around the exhibit hall floor. :P

Not to make light of the subject, but THAT is hilarious!!  Bunyon booths? ;D ;D