Author Topic: 2021 Comic-Con: how do you thin it would (or should) work?  (Read 4158 times)

Offline perc2100

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2021 Comic-Con: how do you thin it would (or should) work?
« on: December 07, 2020, 09:59:31 AM »
While the US is in an awful COVID situation currently, with things likely getting significantly worse before they get better, there IS a silver lining: we can see a light at the end of the long, torturous tunnel.  With a vaccine starting to be distributed before Christmas, with hope that many will have access to the vaccine by summertime, it feels plausible that SDCCI could happen for 2021.

But what would that look like?

Certainly not like anything we've ever seen before: there would still likely need to be socially distancing everywhere, from the Exhibit Hall to panel rooms.  Hall H would likely NOT be able to hold 6k fans, and it doesn't seem likely we'd be shoulder-to-shoulder in the Exhibit Hall.  CCI is in a bit of a bind, with (likely mostly) sold-out while it seems implausible at this time that CA will allow full-capacity event by summertime (as the vaccine is likely to NOT be in full circulation).  So CCI has a LOT of logistical planning to do in order to make a Comic-Con that typically packs 100k+ people into relatively small amount of real estate.

What are you thoughts; what do you think options are, assuming CCI doesn't decide to arbitrarily cancel SDCCI badges already purchased/given out/'guaranteed.'  Some of my thoughts:

* volunteers at the door utilizing RFID or other tech to keep track of people coming in/out.  Maybe utilize signage to show if people can enter/exit at that time.
- pros: could work maybe, would be relatively cheap to implement
- cons: this would obviously place A LOT of trust in volunteers to be 100% accurate.  Also, where would 'overflow' crowds go: as is the norm at SDCCI, if something is full there is a line-up of folks waiting to get in.  This would be pretty difficult to manage, and IDK if this is plausible

* utilize online tech for places in line/"appointments" for visiting the exhibit hall
- pros: you give attendees target dates/times to be allowed to visit the Exhibit Hall; would give attendees clarity on exactly what days/panels they would be attendee so they can plan; would be easy to monitor and maintain for CCI (to an extent)
 - cons: would take fairly new infrastructure; would be REALLY hard to enforce once an attendee is 'inside' (for example, if my Exhibit Hall time is 10am-1pm, how will they be able to kick me out?) - same for panels (if I get in for, say, a WB panel first thing in the morning, short of clearing every room in between every panel & then re-filling; this would mean LESS panels overall); it's change and plenty of attendees would likely not be happy as it would throw-off their general planning (see what happens annually over the online exclusives lotto)

* a hybrid of the above, except CCI has all of their panels on line for attendees to access; they could have a user-specific code so only those users can access it for the panels (if the studios/panelists are worried about exclusivity) and that way those who are shut-out of the panel 'lotto' can still enjoy the panels
- pros: would be safe panel situations AND more people would be able to access panels
- cons: could be problematic for digital security (meaning easy to rip the vid if anyone would care); studios might bulk; would utilize newish tech CCI hasn't utilized much previously

What other ideas are out there?  In CA there's no real model at this time for largeish events, though Disney has seemingly created a good model for 'reservations' for everything (Disney World, though the reservation system has been used in Disneyland for the Star Wars Galaxy's Edge stuff).

I'd be interested to hear your thoughts.  I don't want to have debates on whether or not it will/should occur (I think there are other topics/posts where that issue is more appropriate), I'm curious to hear other ideas I'm not thinking of how to deliver a safe San Diego Comic-Con in July 2021

Offline YouThinkMeMad

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Re: 2021 Comic-Con: how do you thin it would (or should) work?
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2020, 10:39:29 AM »
I do think it'll force them to do online reservations of some sort. A lot of companies out there have been forced to think outside the box and speed up various things like WFH.

I think what I'm most curious about though is if there's still a capacity limit on things in general. Everyone already has badges and well, you can't force people to refund them. Obviously, making reservations for panels might help here but what about just the con center in general?

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Re: 2021 Comic-Con: how do you thin it would (or should) work?
« Reply #2 on: Today at 12:26:59 PM »

Offline sessionka

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Re: 2021 Comic-Con: how do you thin it would (or should) work?
« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2020, 01:03:00 PM »
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While the US is in an awful COVID situation currently, with things likely getting significantly worse before they get better, there IS a silver lining: we can see a light at the end of the long, torturous tunnel.  With a vaccine starting to be distributed before Christmas, with hope that many will have access to the vaccine by summertime, it feels plausible that SDCCI could happen for 2021.

But what would that look like?

Certainly not like anything we've ever seen before: there would still likely need to be socially distancing everywhere, from the Exhibit Hall to panel rooms.  Hall H would likely NOT be able to hold 6k fans, and it doesn't seem likely we'd be shoulder-to-shoulder in the Exhibit Hall. 


I'm actually going to disagree with this.   I'm of the opinion that the vaccine will be a lot more available before July 2021. 
Phasers on Stun!!!

Offline Devorah

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Re: 2021 Comic-Con: how do you thin it would (or should) work?
« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2020, 02:12:33 PM »
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I do think it'll force them to do online reservations of some sort. A lot of companies out there have been forced to think outside the box and speed up various things like WFH.

I agree. By the time con potentially rolls around, they will have had a year to come up with something viable, so hopefully they are working hard on this.

Quote
Everyone already has badges and well, you can't force people to refund them. Obviously, making reservations for panels might help here but what about just the con center in general?


If there are still restrictions in place I don't think there's a viable way to hold the con in 2021 with the current number of badge holders. They can do as many virtual lines as they want, but those crowds will have to go somewhere and even if it's out in the Gaslamp it will still be a disaster.

They could still decide to cancel and refund everyone and redo a badge sale early next year with a much lower number of badges for sale. Or they could do a random sort of the current badge holders and assign some to 2021, some to 2022, etc. Some people would be unhappy but I'd gladly keep my badge for a future year rather than lose it altogether.

ETA: I am not saying they shouldn't have it, just that CCI's planning may have to include a change in attendance numbers, somehow some way.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2020, 02:14:40 PM by Devorah »

Offline chocolateshake

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Re: 2021 Comic-Con: how do you thin it would (or should) work?
« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2020, 02:14:25 PM »
The vaccine won't make things go back to normal.  Masks and social distancing will still be required until the prevalence of the virus drops to a low level in the community.  I don't see that happening in 2021.  So a comic-con in 2021 will have to be a lot like what your brought up.  Like Disneyland.  Lines and crowds have to be prevented.  Capacity will be limited.  Panels will require reservations.  Not only that but loading and clearing rooms will have to be structured.  Not everyone can get up and leave at the same time.  There can't be a mass of people waiting to get in.  Even with limited capacity, a line where everyone has to socially distance will be really long.  So like boarding a plane, people will be assigned times to show up.  There can't be a standby line.

The exhibit floor presents more challenges.  I don't think there can be a-listers showing up for signings.  We all know what happens when that happens.  It will have to be a more subdued experience.

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I'm actually going to disagree with this.   I'm of the opinion that the vaccine will be a lot more available before July 2021.

The numbers don't bear that out.  The person running Operation Warp Speed has said that we are running a couple of months behind right now.  The optimistic expectation was that everyone who wants one should be able to get the vaccine by the end of the spring/beginning of the summer.  If that's been pushed back 2 months, then that's by the end of the summer.  Then there has to be a 1 month wait and a second dose for the vaccine to take effect.

The other key part is the phrase "everyone who wants one".  Right now, that's about 60% of the population.  What about the other 40%?

In order for things to get back to normal, we need this pandemic to become an endemic with low prevalence.  Just like the flu.  Covid is not going away.  The vaccine won't change that.  But as with the flu it can be at such a low level that it doesn't rule our lives.

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Everyone already has badges and well, you can't force people to refund them.

Yes they can.  Like with any event, they can cancel the tickets and process a refund.

Offline perc2100

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Re: 2021 Comic-Con: how do you thin it would (or should) work?
« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2020, 03:36:19 PM »
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I do think it'll force them to do online reservations of some sort. A lot of companies out there have been forced to think outside the box and speed up various things like WFH.

I think what I'm most curious about though is if there's still a capacity limit on things in general. Everyone already has badges and well, you can't force people to refund them. Obviously, making reservations for panels might help here but what about just the con center in general?
I wonder if CCI can cancel/refund Pro badges: some are free and could be canceled easyish, while some are paid and could be more troublesome.  Also, I wonder how many people will pass on coming to SDCCI even though they currently have badges.  For example, my wife has a badge but is on-the-fence at best at this moment, learning towards not attending: I think it's better than 50/50 that she canceled her badge sometime into the new year, depending on what the prognosis is of getting a vaccine by mid-July.

As for folks thinking there is a rosier outlook for a vaccine being in wide distribution before July 2021, this article today doesn't bear that out (which I read AFTER posting my initial post): You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Quote
Trump administration officials passed when Pfizer offered in late summer to sell the U.S. government additional doses of its Covid-19 vaccine, according to people familiar with the matter. Now Pfizer may not be able provide more of its vaccine to the United States until next June because of its commitments to other countries, they said.
and further, past the lede:
Quote
The vaccine being produced by Pfizer and its German partner, BioNTech, is a two-dose treatment, meaning that 100 million doses is enough to vaccinate only 50 million Americans.

Obviously there is another company, Moderna, that could help but as sessionka mentioned:
1) the numbers/math don't bear out vaccine in wide circulation before July 2021
2) when the vaccine starts distribution this year to the general public, it's more likely CA will have massive restrictions in place still until CA is in the clear/out of immediate danger.

Offline chocolateshake

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Re: 2021 Comic-Con: how do you thin it would (or should) work?
« Reply #6 on: December 07, 2020, 07:41:14 PM »
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I wonder if CCI can cancel/refund Pro badges: some are free and could be canceled easyish, while some are paid and could be more troublesome.

I don't see why canceling any badge would be hard.  Products and services are canceled all the time.  Even if people have moved or  their CCs have expired, CCI could get current information the same way they do right before they send out badges.  They tell people to make sure their information is current by a certain date.  Instead of getting a badge in the mail, they get a refund.

There are other vaccines.  The other close ones are/were Moderna's and Oxford's.  Moderna's is basically the same as BioNTech's.  So if gigantic Pfizer can't make that due to material shortages, I doubt little Moderna can.  The Oxford vaccine already had production delays before the controversy, but now they say they will conduct another trial since their results have been called into question.  AZ has said that won't delay regulatory approval but why would any regulator approve it if the company itself says they will be conducting another trial?  There are a lot of other vaccines in trials, they will come later.

We've pinned too much on vaccines.  Vaccines are not a magic bullet.  We've had all the tools all along to have comic-con.  We just refuse to use them.  Mask, testing and contact tracing.  There are some countries that are basically back to normal.  These countries are effectively covid free.  For them, a major spike is 20 cases.  In one of these countries, thousands of people can get together with no consequences.  There's no covid in the community for anyone to spread.  But for the lack of will, we could do the same here.  A vaccine is not required to have comic-con back.

Offline perc2100

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Re: 2021 Comic-Con: how do you thin it would (or should) work?
« Reply #7 on: December 08, 2020, 05:09:49 PM »
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I don't see why canceling any badge would be hard.  Products and services are canceled all the time.  Even if people have moved or  their CCs have expired, CCI could get current information the same way they do right before they send out badges.  They tell people to make sure their information is current by a certain date.  Instead of getting a badge in the mail, they get a refund.

There are other vaccines.  The other close ones are/were Moderna's and Oxford's.  Moderna's is basically the same as BioNTech's.  So if gigantic Pfizer can't make that due to material shortages, I doubt little Moderna can.  The Oxford vaccine already had production delays before the controversy, but now they say they will conduct another trial since their results have been called into question.  AZ has said that won't delay regulatory approval but why would any regulator approve it if the company itself says they will be conducting another trial?  There are a lot of other vaccines in trials, they will come later.

We've pinned too much on vaccines.  Vaccines are not a magic bullet.  We've had all the tools all along to have comic-con.  We just refuse to use them.  Mask, testing and contact tracing.  There are some countries that are basically back to normal.  These countries are effectively covid free.  For them, a major spike is 20 cases.  In one of these countries, thousands of people can get together with no consequences.  There's no covid in the community for anyone to spread.  But for the lack of will, we could do the same here.  A vaccine is not required to have comic-con back.
Yeah, it's really disheartening.  I go into my classroom daily (I teach musically, but as a music teacher I've found my condo neighbors don't appreciate drumming in the morning  :P ) and go to the pharmacy monthly to pic up prescription meds for the fam but other than that I don't go anywhere.  I've had groceries delivered since April, haven't had a haircut since mid-February, and wear a mask always when leaving the house.  My neighbors in Southern CA drive me _NUTS_ with their blasé attitude towards mask-wearing (I chewed out a co-worker at my school yesterday, and chewed out a student this morning for not wearing a mask on our campus - both of those events came the week when we've had to quarantine a slew of students and faculty due to COVID positive test). 
I saw a great meme-like post on Twitter this morning that was something like:
* us, explaining 2020 to our grandkids - "and our government decided it was ok to let 1/4-1/3rd (depending on which numbers you believe) million people die in 9 months because we had to save the economy and keep everything open.
* kids - "wow.  So you saved the economy?"
* us - "also, no."

It's all maddening, but for 30+ years I've watched millions of horror movies and said, "NO ONE is stupid enough to do _that_" only to realize in 2020 that yes: tens of millions of people are stupid enough to do whatever it us I think no one is stupid enough to do.

Offline chocolateshake

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Re: 2021 Comic-Con: how do you thin it would (or should) work?
« Reply #8 on: December 08, 2020, 07:47:27 PM »
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As for folks thinking there is a rosier outlook for a vaccine being in wide distribution before July 2021, this article today doesn't bear that out (which I read AFTER posting my initial post): You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

The responses to this report from the government today sums up how this entire pandemic has been handled.  The White House denied it happened.  The person running Operation Warp Speed confirmed it.  A Pfizer board member who is a former FDA commissioner also confirmed the report.


Offline TardisMom

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Re: 2021 Comic-Con: how do you thin it would (or should) work?
« Reply #9 on: December 09, 2020, 08:16:18 AM »
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The responses to this report from the government today sums up how this entire pandemic has been handled.  The White House denied it happened.  The person running Operation Warp Speed confirmed it.  A Pfizer board member who is a former FDA commissioner also confirmed the report.

The incompetence is really amazing.

Offline perc2100

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Re: 2021 Comic-Con: how do you thin it would (or should) work?
« Reply #10 on: December 09, 2020, 11:23:41 AM »
So I think _REGARDLESS_ when a vaccine is rolled out, it still seems wildly implausible that by July 22 San Diego will be 100% back to normal for a Comic-Con to be what it was like in 2019 during the last pre-pandemic SDCCI.

So the question still remains: what do modifications to we anticipate CCI will make for 2021 to be able to happen?  What modifications would you like to see; what outside-the-box modifications to you have in mind that I may be missing?

As a HS music teacher, we (there are three of us at my school) have been broadly discussing plans for next fall, as far as what a marching band may look like.  There are sooooo many unknown variables at this time, I realize the difficulty of thinking seven months ahead.  In my mind, a lot will hinge on when/if CA Governor Gavin Newsome changes his current restrictions.  For example, if no sport is allowed to have fans in a stadium (current restrictions), then how could there be marching band (or any convention)?  The current guidelines for pro sports & amusement parks are mostly allowed in "Tier 4" (the lowest tier) which says less than 1% new cases, w/an adjustment for less than 2% depending on frequency of testing; IIRC those can open with a very low capacity (like, 20 or 25% I think).
Nearly all of CA is in the purple, the highest tier, with the majority on a "Regional Stay Home Order."  I don't recall at what point since mid-March San Diego would've left the lowest 'yellow' tier, which is what I assume we'd need to be in in order to host Comic-Con at some sort of capacity.
So the future in that respect is incredibly difficult to predict at this point, though obviously things will radically change as a vaccine is in wider circulation: though there will still be risks, obviously.

I think it's unfathomable to think SDCCI 2021 (IF it occurs) will be able to occur as it did in 2019 and before, and I'd be interested to hear how others think the Con will have to change in order to happen

Offline alyssa

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Re: 2021 Comic-Con: how do you thin it would (or should) work?
« Reply #11 on: December 09, 2020, 02:45:16 PM »
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So I think _REGARDLESS_ when a vaccine is rolled out, it still seems wildly implausible that by July 22 San Diego will be 100% back to normal for a Comic-Con to be what it was like in 2019 during the last pre-pandemic SDCCI.

So the question still remains: what do modifications to we anticipate CCI will make for 2021 to be able to happen?  What modifications would you like to see; what outside-the-box modifications to you have in mind that I may be missing?

<snip>

I think it's unfathomable to think SDCCI 2021 (IF it occurs) will be able to occur as it did in 2019 and before, and I'd be interested to hear how others think the Con will have to change in order to happen

Excellent question You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

A *huge* component the the idea of sdcc2021 would have to be
What do comic companies bring?
What do studios bring? Given the condition of the entertainment industry, i can not see them bringing much.
etc

I would think the tone would have to be one of, camaraderie & passing through the gauntlet. Less about blockbusters and making money 'cuz face it there's not as much money out there. I for one am not really craving big move panels but meeting up with folks from my tribe

« Last Edit: December 09, 2020, 02:47:41 PM by alyssa »
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Offline TardisMom

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Re: 2021 Comic-Con: how do you thin it would (or should) work?
« Reply #12 on: December 09, 2020, 03:53:04 PM »
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I think it's unfathomable to think SDCCI 2021 (IF it occurs) will be able to occur as it did in 2019 and before, and I'd be interested to hear how others think the Con will have to change in order to happen

I'd love to reply with some great ideas of how they could make SDCC2021 work.  But I'm at a loss. 

I was really hopeful about a week ago when the vaccine situation was looking good, but with CA getting worse so quickly my hope is fading.  I can't believe the additional vaccine doses weren't locked in.  I can't believe the number of people who say they won't get the vaccine once it is available.  There's way too much focus in the U.S. on individual *rights* as opposed to *responsibilities*.  I wouldn't try to hold a convention and have volunteers trying to get people to wear masks and social distance in this environment (which I think will still be needed even once we have vaccines in arms).

I hope there will be a way to prove that you've received the vaccine, and that places will require that proof for entry.  So that's the first thing they'll need to implement.  Conference room will need chairs to be spaced further apart, and something will need to be done about lines.  Maybe it's time for the online lottery for panels to be implemented?  And for entrance to the convention floor as well?  Maybe move some of the big vendors to other hotels, vendors people will seek out and visit even if it is at a different site?

Bottom line, I really want to get back to SDCC but just can't imagine what it would look like. 

Offline sessionka

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Re: 2021 Comic-Con: how do you thin it would (or should) work?
« Reply #13 on: December 09, 2020, 05:59:38 PM »
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Excellent question You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

A *huge* component the the idea of sdcc2021 would have to be
What do comic companies bring?
What do studios bring? Given the condition of the entertainment industry, i can not see them bringing much.
etc

I would think the tone would have to be one of, camaraderie & passing through the gauntlet. Less about blockbusters and making money 'cuz face it there's not as much money out there. I for one am not really craving big move panels but meeting up with folks from my tribe
I was never one for the big movie  panels, so that doesn't really matter to me.  My thing was always the smaller panels.

SDCC2021 may be closer to how it was in the early 2000's, and that would be ok with me. 
Phasers on Stun!!!

Offline chocolateshake

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Re: 2021 Comic-Con: how do you thin it would (or should) work?
« Reply #14 on: December 09, 2020, 08:59:40 PM »
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I hope there will be a way to prove that you've received the vaccine, and that places will require that proof for entry.  So that's the first thing they'll need to implement.

The method the US will use as proof of covid vaccination is the same method we've always used, the vaccination card.  While that may have had some legitimacy decades ago, today anyone with a computer and a printer can make one of their own.

China, which has effectively defeated covid, has been using an app for things like that.  For months now, in order to gain entry to  buildings you have to scan a QR code at the building and then the app will show your status.  Unless you are green then you aren't allowed to enter.  In Europe they are also trying out digital health passports which would document things like vaccination status.

Here in the US I don't think there's any nationwide program to do that.  California just rolled out a contact tracing app.  So there is hope that California might do something.