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Comic-Con International => SDCC Housing, Parking, and Transportation => Topic started by: chocolateshake on April 23, 2019, 11:56:19 PM

Title: New scooter laws just in time for comic-con.
Post by: chocolateshake on April 23, 2019, 11:56:19 PM
The San Diego city council unanimously approved new scooter regulations today.  The key takeaways are reduced speeds, 8 mph in some areas down to 3 mph in congested areas.  It will be enforced automatically by the scooters through geo-fencing.  Scooters will also only be parked in designated areas.  No more randomly scattered scooters.  These regs are effective starting in July.

I don't know what will constitute a congested area during comic-con.  3 mph is slower than I walk.  As on a bike, the slower you scoot the less stable you are.  It's the spinning wheels inertia thing.  Something to think about if people are hoping to use scooters for transportation and will be staying relatively far away.
Title: Re: New scooter laws just in time for comic-con.
Post by: Emerald_Mom on April 24, 2019, 05:23:33 AM
I wish they would just ban them in the CCI area; almost got run down by the stupid things several times
Title: Re: New scooter laws just in time for comic-con.
Post by: stl_ben on April 24, 2019, 06:48:14 AM
Boo
Title: Re: New scooter laws just in time for comic-con.
Post by: marcia29 on April 24, 2019, 06:59:35 AM
Well how about that?  New rules just in time for SDCC...but 3 miles an hour?  Might as well ban them altogether. I wonder how many people will realize they won't go any faster than that in certain areas before they rent them.  Could be a big disappointment and lessen the fun factor.
Title: Re: New scooter laws just in time for comic-con.
Post by: tsnyder on April 24, 2019, 11:22:44 AM
They make the trip from MGH to Hall H line a lot easier, I'm all for them  :P
Title: Re: New scooter laws just in time for comic-con.
Post by: Angel_ on April 24, 2019, 02:03:15 PM
I hate these scooters so this is great to me lol.  I'm sorry for anyone who found them valuable but they were more of a nuisance to me both here at home and in San Diego.  My city banned them entirely within a week of rolling them out.
Title: Re: New scooter laws just in time for comic-con.
Post by: alyssa on April 24, 2019, 09:10:34 PM
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They make the trip from MGH to Hall H line a lot easier, I'm all for them  :P

and to/from the Sprekels... ;) with a stop by ralphs to pick up lunch / salad

but i'm a road/mountain biker so i stay off the sidwalks and obey traffic laws
Title: Re: New scooter laws just in time for comic-con.
Post by: jnyama on April 25, 2019, 05:54:37 PM
Hm.  I never used them, but was thinking of learning since they looked like a convenient way to get to and from hotels in the far downtown area that aren't covered by shuttles anymore.  I wonder if the ubiquity of Uber/Lyft has contributed to an overall decrease in provided transportation options? 
Title: Re: New scooter laws just in time for comic-con.
Post by: lolaswill on May 08, 2019, 06:47:11 PM
I didn't use the scooter, but I did use the bikes for the first time last year. It was great to get to/from spreckels. I had no crowd problems since I mostly was on the street. I also used the bike lane between the train tracks to get traverse the length of the convention center from Hall A to the Hall H, and then cross Harbor Dr. to the convention center side. No traffic at all. This was awesome at midnight when I wanted to get a Hall H wristband. While the mph limit is a bummer, sometimes it was about my energy to walk/carry groceries from Ralphs at the end of the day, than actual speed.

I actually didn't use uber at all since they couldn't pick me up. I would have to walk halfway out of the convention center to downtown to a pickup spot, and by then...I would have walk halfway to my destination/restaurant. I like them, they were useful. Will probably use again this year.
Title: Re: New scooter laws just in time for comic-con.
Post by: Chris on May 09, 2019, 08:48:25 AM
I'm looking forward to teleporters.  :)
Title: Re: New scooter laws just in time for comic-con.
Post by: stl_ben on May 09, 2019, 08:51:02 AM
Any idea of a map has came out of those reduced speed zones?
Title: Re: New scooter laws just in time for comic-con.
Post by: Emerald_Mom on May 09, 2019, 09:52:45 AM
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I'm looking forward to teleporters.  :)
No more hotelapocalypse..... go back and forth from your own home at leisure...lol
Title: Re: New scooter laws just in time for comic-con.
Post by: darqamin on July 14, 2019, 08:45:39 PM
Are they going to allow scooters beside the convention centre during the convention? We were walking by today doing a little pre-convention tour of the area (by the convention doors A all the way to H): even today with very few walking by, we were passed unnervingly close by people on scooters going at relatively fast speeds. I don't see how scooter could be safely used in that area during the convention.
Title: Re: New scooter laws just in time for comic-con.
Post by: SamTurtledove on July 14, 2019, 09:13:42 PM
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Are they going to allow scooters beside the convention centre during the convention? We were walking by today doing a little pre-convention tour of the area (by the convention doors A all the way to H): even today with very few walking by, we were passed unnervingly close by people on scooters going at relatively fast speeds. I don't see how scooter could be safely used in that area during the convention.

The scooter restrictions around the convention center occur only during hours of the con.

Wednesday, July 17 from 3:00 PM to 10:00 PM

Thursday, July 18 from 7:00 AM to 10:00 PM

Friday, July 19 from 7:00 AM to 10:00 PM

Saturday, July 20 from 7:00 AM to 10:00 PM

Sunday, July 21 from 7:00 AM to 8:00 PM



As far as enforcement, last year an occasional scooter got by.


More at
https://www.friendsofcc.com/forum/index.php?topic=10641.msg277635.msg#277635
Title: Re: New scooter laws just in time for comic-con.
Post by: marcia29 on July 24, 2019, 03:41:57 AM
Very happy with the new scooter regulations!  Very few violators.  Security seemed to have pretty good control.  Saw lots of them on the perimeter, but none in front of the convention center.  Yay!  :)
Title: Re: New scooter laws just in time for comic-con.
Post by: puppy on July 24, 2019, 06:30:51 AM
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Very happy with the new scooter regulations!  Very few violators.  Security seemed to have pretty good control.  Saw lots of them on the perimeter, but none in front of the convention center.  Yay!  :)

I heard one guy tell someone the problem with using the scooters is they don't tell you when you are inside the perimeter until you park.  Then, you know you are inside because it won't let you park.  Then, you have to take it outside the perimeter and park.  Meanwhile, you are getting charged both ways.
Title: Re: New scooter laws just in time for comic-con.
Post by: marcia29 on July 24, 2019, 07:57:30 AM
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I heard one guy tell someone the problem with using the scooters is they don't tell you when you are inside the perimeter until you park.  Then, you know you are inside because it won't let you park.  Then, you have to take it outside the perimeter and park.  Meanwhile, you are getting charged both ways.

Now that was odd.  I can see the dissatisfaction and frustration there.   :(
Title: Re: New scooter laws just in time for comic-con.
Post by: stl_ben on July 24, 2019, 10:07:34 AM
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I heard one guy tell someone the problem with using the scooters is they don't tell you when you are inside the perimeter until you park.  Then, you know you are inside because it won't let you park.  Then, you have to take it outside the perimeter and park.  Meanwhile, you are getting charged both ways.
This! The few times we rode them it was impossible to find ok spots to park them.
Title: Re: New scooter laws just in time for comic-con.
Post by: alyssa on July 24, 2019, 10:33:15 AM
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I heard one guy tell someone the problem with using the scooters is they don't tell you when you are inside the perimeter until you park.  Then, you know you are inside because it won't let you park.  Then, you have to take it outside the perimeter and park.  Meanwhile, you are getting charged both ways.

yes, that was annoying - i encountered it too but perhaps not as much since i was aware of the restriced zone prior to sdcc. The restricted zone seemed to corallate with the slowdown zone. tbh, the slowdown zone reduced the speed to an effective fast walk which given the foot traffic in the gaslamp made using the scooters to almost useless.

if i needed to go from the Hilton bayfront to the hyatt- I'd go across the footbridge & out to market- thereby avoiding most of the foot traffic & no parking zones
Title: Re: New scooter laws just in time for comic-con.
Post by: chocolateshake on July 24, 2019, 10:43:46 AM
Here's a story on scooters that were impounded.  I saw the city workers doing this while waiting for the Stan Lee Audible.  They were not gentle.

https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/Bird-City-Didnt-Follow-Permit-Rules-When-Impounding-Scooters-513117071.html
Title: Re: New scooter laws just in time for comic-con.
Post by: alyssa on August 06, 2019, 04:02:09 PM
i did have one snafu with a Bird scooter.
A week or so after the con, i used a scooter to go from the Sofia hotel to the Hyatt. I was charged $54.31. About 10 times the amount i should have been charged.

I contacted bird through the app, outlining where i picked it up & dropped it off and approx times. they are crediting me back $48. But it took a day or two for them to respond
Title: Re: New scooter laws just in time for comic-con.
Post by: marcia29 on August 07, 2019, 06:04:52 AM
I do have to say that my son had a fun time on one of those things--outside the boundaries of course.  I, however, kept my 2 feet on the ground!   ;D  they can go pretty fast.
Title: Re: New scooter laws just in time for comic-con.
Post by: chocolateshake on August 07, 2019, 10:49:46 AM
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I do have to say that my son had a fun time on one of those things--outside the boundaries of course.  I, however, kept my 2 feet on the ground!   ;D  they can go pretty fast.

The move is on to ban escooters period.  This is disheartening for me since I've been riding various forms of escooters for over 20 years.  All this time, legally they were considered bicycles.  Now because of these scooters services, they maybe banned.  This already happened years ago in some cities like New York.
Title: Re: New scooter laws just in time for comic-con.
Post by: alyssa on August 07, 2019, 12:33:14 PM
there's a huge difference between personally owned devices and ride-share devices- the latter is in the ecommerce public domain & the other is a personal device like a electric assisted peddle bike-
I use to work for a cycling company & be in that community. lots of folks in my area wanted to 'get those bikes off the road' but the fact of the matter is we've got a right to use the road too. roads are not just for cars. i don't see how they can prohibit privately owned electric people movers
Title: Re: New scooter laws just in time for comic-con.
Post by: lliving on August 11, 2019, 07:11:39 PM
I think the City Government of San Diego is out to  stop the renta-a-escooter thing.  Friday morning of SDCC,  while waiting in line for Amazon Prime experience, we saw a City of San Diego truck with workers picking up scooters and throwing on to the  truck.  I asked one of the workers why they were taking the scooters.  He said per ordinance, scooters not left in marked  scooter  parking spaces are impounded. The city charges a $65 impound fee, plus $1/day until picked up.  Plus the  3mph speed limit in certain areas of Gas Lamp is a real bummer.
Title: Re: New scooter laws just in time for comic-con.
Post by: chocolateshake on August 20, 2019, 10:55:39 AM
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there's a huge difference between personally owned devices and ride-share devices- the latter is in the ecommerce public domain & the other is a personal device like a electric assisted peddle bike-
I use to work for a cycling company & be in that community. lots of folks in my area wanted to 'get those bikes off the road' but the fact of the matter is we've got a right to use the road too. roads are not just for cars. i don't see how they can prohibit privately owned electric people movers

Unfortunately when the bans happen, they make no distinction between privately owned scooters or "public" scooters.  They ban them all.  In London and New York City for example, all these scooters are banned.  SDSU just implemented a ban.  All escooters, ebikes, eanything are banned.  Doesn't matter if it's a scooter from a company or privately owned.  Pretty much anything with a motor.

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/education/story/2019-08-19/sdsu-bans-electric-scooters-electric-skateboards-electric-hoverboards

On a related note, San Diego is trying to revoke Lime's operating permit.

https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/City-Takes-Steps-to-Revoke-Limes-Operation-Permit-555182641.html
Title: Re: New scooter laws just in time for comic-con.
Post by: chocolateshake on January 09, 2020, 10:22:58 PM
It's done.  Lime is pulling out of San Diego.

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/technology/story/2020-01-09/lime-is-leaving-san-diego-and-11-other-cities-citing-too-much-red-tap-declining-ridership
Title: Re: New scooter laws just in time for comic-con.
Post by: stl_ben on January 10, 2020, 07:47:28 AM
I dont live there so hard for me to be super critical, but I do think they over reached on how strict the limitations are they put in place. Not enough "legal" parking spots were made, too many impounds without notification and so on.  Think if they struck up a nice balance or just limited the number of devices allowed in the city to keep it reasonable it would be good for the companies and the city.
Title: Re: New scooter laws just in time for comic-con.
Post by: marcia29 on January 10, 2020, 09:58:16 AM
This comes as a surprise to me.  I do think some of the companies "went wild" with bringing the machines in,  and are responsible for much of this seeming backlash of strict regulations that have cut into their profit margins.
Title: Re: New scooter laws just in time for comic-con.
Post by: stl_ben on January 13, 2020, 09:00:09 AM
Nice discussion about scooters today on NPR.  Excellent comparisons to how Bicycles were first treated by cities 100 years ago to how scooters are being treated today.  Listen here:
https://the1a.org/shows/2020-01-13/electric-scooters
Title: Re: New scooter laws just in time for comic-con.
Post by: marcia29 on January 13, 2020, 11:05:21 AM
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Nice discussion about scooters today on NPR.  Excellent comparisons to how Bicycles were first treated by cities 100 years ago to how scooters are being treated today.  Listen here:
https://the1a.org/shows/2020-01-13/electric-scooters

Listening to this now...about halfway through. So far, the discussion is lopsided...weighted with advocates and company reps, who clearly, CLEARLY will do anything to make scooters look favorable.  Not a fair discussion at all.  I even got a feeling of...anyone who is against scooter use, or wants more/tighter regulations are "out of touch" or older people with mobility issues, etc.  Ugh.   :(  Oh, poor scooter companies.  Smoother talkers, slick talkers. Ugh again.    I like the idea of scooters in the right places and with proper regulations.  We can work it out.
Title: Re: New scooter laws just in time for comic-con.
Post by: chocolateshake on January 13, 2020, 11:27:14 AM
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This comes as a surprise to me.  I do think some of the companies "went wild" with bringing the machines in,  and are responsible for much of this seeming backlash of strict regulations that have cut into their profit margins.

While the scooter companies did go wild.  Ask forgiveness and not permission.  Some didn't even bother to get licensing before starting up.  That's not what's led to back backlash.  It's the riders going wild.  It's the spat of accidents, some fatal, that led San Diego to crack down on escooters.  As these things go, San Diego is still lenient.  Some cities, NYC for example, ban them outright.

The problem is how people ride them.  I've been riding escooters for over 20 years.  I try to never ride on the sidewalk, that's what the bike lane is for.  I also don't ride my bike on the sidewalk.  When I do need to ride on the sidewalk, I go at a walking pace.  Too many people go 15 MPH on the sidewalk where there are pedestrians.  That's dangerous for everyone.

So the problem is the riders.  Education will not work.  It hasn't so far.  But there could be a technological solution.  Just like there is geo fencing to limit speed in some areas, a scooter could be made with a camera.  It can then know whether it's on the sidewalk or not.  If it is, then limit the speed to 3 MPH.
Title: Re: New scooter laws just in time for comic-con.
Post by: marcia29 on January 13, 2020, 11:39:16 AM
I like your idea of a speed limiter for things like a sidewalk violation....
Title: Re: New scooter laws just in time for comic-con.
Post by: Chris on January 14, 2020, 06:28:27 AM
I've noticed a lot less if any around town lately.
Title: Re: New scooter laws just in time for comic-con.
Post by: f22raptor on January 22, 2020, 05:52:55 PM
Nothing wrong with walking.
Title: Re: New scooter laws just in time for comic-con.
Post by: lliving on January 22, 2020, 05:55:50 PM
https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/environment/story/2019-10-14/new-rules-shaping-scooter-use-in-san-diego


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Title: Re: New scooter laws just in time for comic-con.
Post by: marcia29 on January 23, 2020, 09:25:20 AM
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https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/environment/story/2019-10-14/new-rules-shaping-scooter-use-in-san-diego

Informative update...good read!
Title: Re: New scooter laws just in time for comic-con.
Post by: lliving on January 23, 2020, 07:03:10 PM
Saw this on the SDCC blog twitter feed.  No more Lime scooters in San Diego.  The article references Lime losing $46,000 during Comic Con due to impounded scooters. 

https://www.kpbs.org/news/2020/jan/09/no-more-lime-scooters-company-leaving-san-diego/


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Title: Re: New scooter laws just in time for comic-con.
Post by: marcia29 on January 24, 2020, 07:12:42 AM
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Saw this on the SDCC blog twitter feed.  No more Lime scooters in San Diego.  The article references Lime losing $46,000 during Comic Con due to impounded scooters. 

https://www.kpbs.org/news/2020/jan/09/no-more-lime-scooters-company-leaving-san-diego/


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Sounds like folk either did not know regulations, or....ignored them.  ::)
Title: Re: New scooter laws just in time for comic-con.
Post by: kmy on January 24, 2020, 12:39:59 PM
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Sounds like folk either did not know regulations, or....ignored them.  :)
I've never ridden a scooter. Anyone know if there's any blowback on the user if they disobey the regulations? Or does the company just end up eating the fine and resulting black mark on their reputation?
Title: Re: New scooter laws just in time for comic-con.
Post by: alyssa on January 24, 2020, 02:25:03 PM
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Sounds like folk either did not know regulations, or....ignored them.  ::)

agreed

imnsho, if you ride on the street, you need to follow certain rules of the road. Any cyclist knows them.
go with traffic, helmet, stop at stop lights, ped's have the right of way, etc
then there's basic bike handling skills which are very similar to scooters
Title: Re: New scooter laws just in time for comic-con.
Post by: lliving on January 24, 2020, 03:37:11 PM
I think the company is responsible for the fines.  I remember waiting in line early one morning at the Amazon activation and seeing a big truck being loaded up by city workers with tons of scooters.  Frankly I found the scooters  impractical when used close to the convention center. Certain areas of Gaslamp were “slow speed” areas, the scooters would throttle down to such a slow speed it was faster to walk.


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Title: Re: New scooter laws just in time for comic-con.
Post by: alyssa on January 24, 2020, 04:05:38 PM
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I think the company is responsible for the fines.  I remember waiting in line early one morning at the Amazon activation and seeing a big truck being loaded up by city workers with tons of scooters.  Frankly I found the scooters  impractical when used close to the convention center. Certain areas of Gaslamp were “slow speed” areas, the scooters would throttle down to such a slow speed it was faster to walk.


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this ^^^

if i had to go from the bayfront to the hiltonHyatt, i'd go over the bridge, grab a scooter there, shoot down market or G street. Thereby avoiding all the foot traffic & inforced slow zone.
Title: Re: New scooter laws just in time for comic-con.
Post by: marcia29 on January 29, 2020, 03:00:33 PM
I was actually going to try riding one this year, but now, I dunno. Maybe there won't be many..or any.... :o
Title: Re: New scooter laws just in time for comic-con.
Post by: TheSa|nt on January 31, 2020, 02:52:54 PM
I quite enjoyed making use of the scooters. However, their GPS capabilities aren't always accurate. When it comes to where you can park them, sometimes you can park them just fine right outside of the no-parking sections, and sometimes it thinks you are within the no-parking section despite being a block or two outside of it. You just keep walking in the opposite direction from which you're trying to travel and eventually it will let you park/lock it. They still have some bugs to iron out, but the idea can be nice as long as you obey the simple rules and be a good person.
Title: Re: New scooter laws just in time for comic-con.
Post by: darqamin on February 06, 2020, 07:22:46 AM
Just glad there were some restrictions in areas around the time of Comic Con. I'm lucky living somewhere where they are unusable in the winter, get a break from them being out there.