Author Topic: SDCC Panel (bidding) Lottery System.  (Read 8480 times)

Offline DaveG

  • Pre-Registration
  • ******
  • Join Date: Jul 2012
  • Posts: 2170
  • Karma: 0
  • Liked: 572
Re: SDCC Panel (bidding) Lottery System.
« Reply #15 on: October 17, 2014, 11:21:23 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
I did feel in control, because I had the CHOICE of lining up or not. I could have said NOPE but the reason I was at SDCC was for Marvel. I needed to be at that panel. It was #1 on my list. If that meant I missed out on Friday panels/events, oh well.

This past year I felt the exact same way.  I built my con experience around Hall H on Saturday.  Marvel was the big one, but having Warner Bros and DC Entertainment in the evening just cemented it.  The only other panel I really wanted to see was Agents of Shield, but I correctly assumed that if I went to that panel I would get out too late to get a premium spot in line for Hall H on Saturday.  I was correct.  In fact, I opted to do Hall H on Friday instead and decided that I needed to leave the Hall before GoT ended and thousands would leave and line up for Saturday.  So I left when GoT Q&A started.  Again, I was correct.  I got a pretty good spot in the line which started less than an hour previously.  If I had waited until the end of GoT I would have been about 500 people further back.  More than that after line cutters would join their friends.

Unless CCI changes the rules, it will be worse next year.  If you really want a premium seat in Hall H on Saturday you'll have to forego any panels on Friday.  You can probably do an hour or so in exhibit hall, but watch twitter and be prepared to dash for the line when it starts.  That's what I expect if nothing changes.  Right now, the line for Saturday cannot start until the line for Friday moves.  Literally, there will be no place for Hall H on Saturday to start lining up Thursday night or early Friday morning.  The entire back of the convention center will be full.  So while I expect it to be worse, it really can't get too much worse.  Unless of course they decide to start letting people camp out at Petco Park and then walk the line over to the tents in the evening.  I just don't know where else they would put the line.  Oh yeah, next year, make sure to bring sunscreen and an umbrella to keep the sun off you, because these lines will include several hours in the sun.

Offline ComicGirl

  • Gaming Lounge
  • ****
  • Join Date: Dec 2012
  • Posts: 389
  • Karma: 0
  • Liked: 119
Re: SDCC Panel (bidding) Lottery System.
« Reply #16 on: October 17, 2014, 11:55:37 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Unless CCI changes the rules, it will be worse next year.  If you really want a premium seat in Hall H on Saturday you'll have to forego any panels on Friday.  You can probably do an hour or so in exhibit hall, but watch twitter and be prepared to dash for the line when it starts.  That's what I expect if nothing changes.  Right now, the line for Saturday cannot start until the line for Friday moves.  Literally, there will be no place for Hall H on Saturday to start lining up Thursday night or early Friday morning.  The entire back of the convention center will be full.  So while I expect it to be worse, it really can't get too much worse.  Unless of course they decide to start letting people camp out at Petco Park and then walk the line over to the tents in the evening.  I just don't know where else they would put the line.  Oh yeah, next year, make sure to bring sunscreen and an umbrella to keep the sun off you, because these lines will include several hours in the sun.

Can you expand on that?  :) Why will it be worse? If the line for Saturday physically cannot start until the Friday line is dispersed (same as in 2014) why would it be worse in 2015? SDCC is not going to let Hall H line for Saturday start lining up on Thursday There is no where to put it. They physically have no place to put a line and why would they want to? It would require management of two simultaneous lines and a lot of angry fans, and again, no where to put it.

Sometimes I think we are scaring ourselves. I keep hearing people say, "We're going to have to wait 24 or 36 hours in line" but as it has been for several years now, you can't line up till that day's line is gone.

Friends of Comic Cons

  • Guest
Re: SDCC Panel (bidding) Lottery System.
« Reply #17 on: Today at 03:46:05 AM »

Offline YouThinkMeMad

  • Volunteer HQ
  • ******
  • Join Date: Feb 2013
  • Posts: 3982
  • Karma: 0
  • Formally When Nerds Attack
    • You Fancy Me Mad
  • Liked: 538
Re: SDCC Panel (bidding) Lottery System.
« Reply #17 on: October 17, 2014, 12:01:24 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Can you expand on that?  :) Why will it be worse? If the line for Saturday physically cannot start until the Friday line is dispersed (same as in 2014) why would it be worse in 2015? SDCC is not going to let Hall H line for Saturday start lining up on Thursday There is no where to put it. They physically have no place to put a line and why would they want to? It would require management of two simultaneous lines and a lot of angry fans, and again, no where to put it.

Sometimes I think we are scaring ourselves. I keep hearing people say, "We're going to have to wait 24 or 36 hours in line" but as it has been for several years now, you can't line up till that day's line is gone.

I hate to bring up the "Secret Hall H Line" again but I was in line for Saturday at about 9:30-10AM on Friday. The girl at the front had been there Thursday.

Offline semigeekgirl

  • Supporter
  • Volunteer HQ
  • ******
  • Join Date: Feb 2013
  • Posts: 3731
  • Karma: 0
  • "If the apocalypse comes, beep me."
  • Liked: 2464
Re: SDCC Panel (bidding) Lottery System.
« Reply #18 on: October 17, 2014, 12:03:28 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Sometimes I think we are scaring ourselves. I keep hearing people say, "We're going to have to wait 24 or 36 hours in line" but as it has been for several years now, you can't line up till that day's line is gone.

But that's already not what happened this year. The lineup for Saturday started around 2pm, according to Twitter (and verified by some of my friends walking by at around 3:30). This "unofficial-official" line was asked to disperse by security but only went as far as the edge of the plaza. They were not allowed to occupy the plaza or tents until 4pm-ish, at which point security caved and allowed them to call themselves the official line. They were moved to the tents sometime after the final Friday panel started.

Edited to add: And I just read YouThinkMeMad's post. Apparently it began even earlier!

Offline ComicGirl

  • Gaming Lounge
  • ****
  • Join Date: Dec 2012
  • Posts: 389
  • Karma: 0
  • Liked: 119
SDCC Panel (bidding) Lottery System.
« Reply #19 on: October 17, 2014, 12:56:12 PM »
Thanks for the clarification! I understand it a lot better now. The fans are creating unofficial lines or lingering groups way way WAY to early.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Offline DaveG

  • Pre-Registration
  • ******
  • Join Date: Jul 2012
  • Posts: 2170
  • Karma: 0
  • Liked: 572
Re: SDCC Panel (bidding) Lottery System.
« Reply #20 on: October 17, 2014, 02:10:22 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Can you expand on that?  :) Why will it be worse? If the line for Saturday physically cannot start until the Friday line is dispersed (same as in 2014) why would it be worse in 2015? SDCC is not going to let Hall H line for Saturday start lining up on Thursday There is no where to put it. They physically have no place to put a line and why would they want to? It would require management of two simultaneous lines and a lot of angry fans, and again, no where to put it.

Sometimes I think we are scaring ourselves. I keep hearing people say, "We're going to have to wait 24 or 36 hours in line" but as it has been for several years now, you can't line up till that day's line is gone.

It'll be worse because people now know what to expect.  Can it get much worse?  No, because of the limit on when there is space for a line to form.  But this year they started the line around 1pm with lurkers hanging out a few hours before that.  I have no idea when they will let the line form in 2015, but unless CCI takes measures to stop it, the unofficial lines and lurkers will double or triple in number and start a little earlier.  People will have their communication networks in place and once the line starts it will fill very very rapidly.  So, no, I don't expect the line to start 36 hours in advance.  It can't.  The limit is probably something a little less than 24 hours.

So I do think we have now reached capacity for how bad this can get.  But again, I'm only talking about Saturday.  Friday will not be quite as bad, but I certainly wouldn't wait until 5pm or 6pm the night before if you want premium seats.  Sunday will only be bad if Dr. Who returns and even then I don't think getting into the hall will be an issue, you'll need to camp overnight if you want a premium seat.  Thursday will need a much better draw or it will continue to a situation where you can walk right in.

Offline epicskyline

  • Gaming Lounge
  • ****
  • Join Date: Jun 2013
  • Posts: 300
  • Karma: 0
  • Liked: 99
Re: SDCC Panel (bidding) Lottery System.
« Reply #21 on: February 04, 2015, 01:16:54 PM »
Super late here, but I find this topic really interesting as a thought experiment and I've enjoyed the suggestions.

If we are still hypothetically improving it, I would add that each person could try for two tickets, provided that he/she listed the member ID of the person they were trying for. Then I could sign up with me and my friend as my + 1, and she could do the same for me, but every person is only allowed to win one time. (So if my member ID and hers miraculously both get picked, we'd only be informed of one ticket and the other two would automatically get put back into the pot to be redistributed.) That way if I get in, my friend gets in too. That still doesn't help for big groups, but alleviates SOME of the inconvenience.

In terms of cancellation, I think this is pretty simply fixed with a prominent warning about this possibility by CCI before the lottery takes place. You sign a terms of service type of thing saying that you understand cancellations may occur and are out of CCI's control in order to be able to participate in the lottery. It's similar to when people line up for 12 hours for Hall H on Saturday, waste all of their time, and still don't make it in. It's the chance you take. At least this way, you can know in advance and use your time checking out smaller panels that don't cost points, looking at off-sites, exploring the exhibit hall, etc.

And if we're making small tweaks, then I'd also suggest going "most expensive" to "cheapest" in lottery order, instead of the other way around. But in addition, I'd change the cost of the lower panels to reflect this, sort of like in the game Deal Or No Deal. (Go with me on this.) So say the Marvel panel is 50 points and the Vampire Diaries is 20 points. People can make their original choices on how to spend their 100 points, and if you pick VD for 20 pts, you're locked into it. Then the Marvel lottery hits, several thousand people don't get in and now have 50 points to spend. To reflect that more people will be interested in VD as a second choice, the panel now costs 30 pts. to get into for new people, though any people who picked it originally are still locked in at 20 pts. I think this would help in two ways: 1. it would give people something to do with those 50 points they now have to spend, when before they'd just be out, since the big panels would go through the lottery last. 2. It would still keep the competition for the "cheaper" panels fair and favor those who really wanted to see VD as their first choice.

Do I think it would work? Probably not, since people would be SO MAD. I'm also of two minds about the idea. I'd like to go to those big panels, but I also enjoy the extra space afforded to me at the rest of the con when a good chunk of attendees are lined up all day.

Offline mdla

  • Ballroom 20
  • ****
  • Join Date: Feb 2012
  • Posts: 552
  • Karma: 0
  • Liked: 171
Re: SDCC Panel (bidding) Lottery System.
« Reply #22 on: February 04, 2015, 01:43:35 PM »
Hey all!  I think Jopari's system is very interesting.  Definitely one worth discussing.  Just thought I would also post the lottery idea I made in a previous thread as well.

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Alright... people here are circling around my idea, because you all are awesome so I'll post it now.  If SDCC wanted to implement a Hall H (or any other room lottery) here's what you would need to do:

A week before Comic Con starts, CCI requires you to enter in a list of five people you would want to go with in case you "win" a lottery spot.  A lottery spot is good for you as well as up to two others on your pre-approved list.

When you receive your badge, the person printing it out also takes a photo of you.  The badge has a QR code you will need to get into Hall H.

The day before you intend to go to Hall H, CCI puts up a landing page (I guess maybe it could be on the app too) where you can enter yourself into a lottery from 10 AM-4PM.

Comic Con would also need to have computer stations set up all over the Convention Center so those that plan on staying all day and have dead phones or aren't as tech savvy would not be shut out of a lottery spot.  Ideally, someone would be able to scan the QR code and enter in their information into these computers to expedite the process.

At 7 PM the night before the events are taking place, CCI begins to notify people where there position in line is via the same landing page (and maybe through e-mail as well?).

I guess then CCI would have to determine a cutoff point where people who got low enough numbers would wait in line (i.e. if your number is 1500 or below you MUST be in line by 6:30 AM).

You get your badge scanned, up pops your picture, as well as the names of the 5 people you preapproved to join you in case you got a low number.  This would make it so you could still bring a friend, but someone could not "scalp" their place in line.

Comic Con folks then should have real time data on how many open spots they can accommodate within the hour and notify the next group of folks to get to the Hall H line within the hour or lose their spot.  Hopefully after two or three runs at this, you should be at near capacity just as programming is about to begin.

If someone wants to exit Hall H, it is required that they scan their badge upon leaving.  CCI does their tally and "buzzes" the next group of folks via e-mail and the landing page that their number has been called.  They have (30 or 45?) minutes upon being notified to get their badge scanned for entry into Hall H.

Rinse.  Take a deep breath.  Do 3 more times.

Phew.  Alright, i'm sure there are a lot of problems with this idea, but thats what I think would be the fairest and most convenient system if CCI were to do a lottery.

Offline retired

  • Supporter
  • Pre-Registration
  • ******
  • Join Date: Feb 2013
  • Posts: 2160
  • Karma: 0
  • Liked: 1048
Re: SDCC Panel (bidding) Lottery System.
« Reply #23 on: February 04, 2015, 04:21:00 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Hey all!  I think Jopari's system is very interesting.  Definitely one worth discussing.  Just thought I would also post the lottery idea I made in a previous thread as well.

Thanks. Its too bad some people just want to tear down the hypothetical solution, rather then having fun contributing to its discussion. Everyone has different opinions. But this thread was about how to make a hypothetical solution work, NOT to discuss how my whole idea is crap. I stated that in the first post but some people just couldn't help themselves. Its called thread crapping btw.  If this community no longer wants my help or ideas, then ill make sure to move along.

Offline semigeekgirl

  • Supporter
  • Volunteer HQ
  • ******
  • Join Date: Feb 2013
  • Posts: 3731
  • Karma: 0
  • "If the apocalypse comes, beep me."
  • Liked: 2464
Re: SDCC Panel (bidding) Lottery System.
« Reply #24 on: February 04, 2015, 05:48:39 PM »
I think that most of us weren't specifically trying to tear it down, but rather to provide constructive criticism by pointing out possible problems with it. In an ideal world we'd be offering solutions, too, but unfortunately it's a whole lot easier to see the problems than it is to fix them.

As for the current iteration, I think you might have to add a confirmation step, to prevent spots from going unused. Say my husband and I both have the same four top priority panels, in the same order. Assuming we can bring a guest, in order to have the best chance, I make panel A and panel C my #1 and #2. Husband makes panel B his #1 and panel D his #2, so we have the maximum chance of success. But then I get my #1 choice. He gets his #2 choice. Panels A and D, unfortunately, are at the same time. Obviously we both go to A, since it was our top priority. But now there are 2 spots in D (still a popular panel) that remain empty.

Offline Mel

  • Volunteer HQ
  • ******
  • Join Date: Feb 2014
  • Posts: 4599
  • Karma: 0
    • Flickr
  • Liked: 1923
Re: SDCC Panel (bidding) Lottery System.
« Reply #25 on: February 04, 2015, 08:38:27 PM »
Oh come on jopari, this community loves you. A couple thread crappers aren't everyone. Some people live to say something isn't gonna work. Under those people, SDCC wouldn't happen at all, everything would be "impossible." But decisions need to be made and change does need to happen.

I love your game of trying to work a solution for the fun of it!

To that, I'd say how do you feel about the prospects of your bid getting you two spots?  You win, you enter the Member ID of the person you are taking. And how about this, when you get your badge the chip is encoded with the panels you won and to enter the panel your RFID has to pass entrance. Think of it like tattle tape to keep people from stealing, an invalid badge triggers an alarm or light and security pulls them to the side and figure out if they are cheaters or something went wrong.

This would just be for Hall H and B20 fri-sat to start.  If the system got to really working incorporate more bigs like Indigo, 6A, ect.

Perhaps if any confusion about points....just limit it to 10 panel picks/tries per person and chosen in order of pteference and no person can win more than 4 panels.  So after you win 4, if you do, yer dropped from the others.

Then you are notified that you win or not enter member Id of companion as a confirmation. After 72 hours those not confirmed and a second lotto is held for those without 4 panels yet who still want to try.

How do any of those ideas sound?
Formerly cracksback

My Flickr
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
-----------------------------
My Twitter
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Offline Transmute Jun

  • Stan Lee's Hospitality Suite
  • *******
  • Join Date: Mar 2012
  • Posts: 23719
  • Karma: 5
  • Queen of the Bird Missiles
  • Liked: 9714
Re: SDCC Panel (bidding) Lottery System.
« Reply #26 on: February 05, 2015, 06:04:29 AM »
I agree, Jopari, you are needed here! Don't let a couple of disagreements send you away!

Cracksback, I like your idea of all of this being programmed into an RFID badge. I really think SDCC should implement this technology and set up 'tapstiles' at every entrance point, including to the big halls.

One monkey wrench for the '2 seats' idea (which I like)... what about kids? If you have a child who is too young for a member ID, but they want to go to the panel with you, they will take up a seat. Would SDCC budget for some overages of that nature? My 12 year old loves to go into Hall H, but isn't old enough for a Member ID and is way too big to sit on my lap.

Offline retired

  • Supporter
  • Pre-Registration
  • ******
  • Join Date: Feb 2013
  • Posts: 2160
  • Karma: 0
  • Liked: 1048
SDCC Panel (bidding) Lottery System.
« Reply #27 on: February 05, 2015, 07:08:00 AM »
There are three golden rules when it comes to replying to threads on a forum, in my experience
1) stay on topic
2) no thread crapping
3) adhere to the requests of the original poster

Disagreements I can handle, as long as they are on topic and don't violate those rules

This threads topic was HOW to make a theoretical system work ( a design workshop of sorts) Not WHY it will never work. I even asked in the original post

There were already threads that had very good discussions going about the the hall H line and why people like the current or past systems or not.

Did I try taking over those threads to turn them into a discussion on how to design a working bidding system? No. I made a new thread to keep the discussions separate, out of respect to the original posters of those other threads, and for the sake of organization.

Now this thread got derailed into a discussion of why the first come first serve line system is king. THAT is what I am upset about. Derailing my thread. I thought I had done, and continue to do enough for this community to deserve better.

Here is an example of a Disagreement VS Thread Crapping, in case anyone is confused:
Topic = What would make Chuck Norris Cry? I think Onions.
Disagreement = Wrong, Chuck Norris makes ONIONS CRY!! <-- this is on topic, its just a disagrement
Thread Crapping = Everybody cries. Why are we even talking about this... <-- not on topic (Chuck Norris + Crying). and putting down the topic itself.

Maybe in the future, the next time anyone is about to reply to someone's thread, everyone should ask themselves if your reply: is on topic, crapping on the topic, or adhering to any other requests made by the original poster.

I'm sorry but I'm personally no longer up to continuing the original topic. You are all free to continue as you have been, of course


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
« Last Edit: February 05, 2015, 09:14:57 AM by jopari »

Offline admiral-lira

  • Room 6BCF
  • ***
  • Join Date: Mar 2014
  • Posts: 224
  • Karma: 0
  • Liked: 46
Re: SDCC Panel (bidding) Lottery System.
« Reply #28 on: March 16, 2015, 03:01:23 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Security then walks over there, and presses the remote activator that makes those peoples badges blink red. the people around that person pull out pens, and that person gets the hint and leaves in shame.

Or they activate the device that makes the lanyards of the people hiding get super melting hot and they get their heads cut off. >:D

Offline Pyramid

  • Supporter
  • Volunteer HQ
  • ******
  • Join Date: Jun 2013
  • Posts: 3230
  • Karma: 0
  • Comic Con is a Black Hole for my wallet.
  • Liked: 549
Re: SDCC Panel (bidding) Lottery System.
« Reply #29 on: March 16, 2015, 06:00:21 PM »
I like the creativity of the idea from the OP.  The line situation at SDCC is insane and needs to be resolved.  People now EXPECT to camp out even during the con for Hall H and B20:  madness.  I had an hour wait for 5AB last year!  I hope a change is implemented and I think we saw CCI try to implement some of those changes last year with the lotteries for off site events like Weird Al but people started camping for those lotteries.  So to get rid of the campers something would need to happen before they even show up.   It beats spending most of the con waiting in line. 
Twitter feed:  wes@comicconster