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Con Suite => Movies and TV Shows => Topic started by: Chris on March 13, 2021, 02:55:44 PM

Title: Falcon and the Winter Soldier ***Spoilers***
Post by: Chris on March 13, 2021, 02:55:44 PM
Is it Friday yet?
Title: Re: Falcon and the Winter Soldier ***Spoilers***
Post by: Miclpea on March 13, 2021, 03:34:49 PM
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Is it Friday yet?



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Title: Re: Falcon and the Winter Soldier ***Spoilers***
Post by: Michael M on March 17, 2021, 06:11:17 PM
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Title: Re: Falcon and the Winter Soldier ***Spoilers***
Post by: mark on March 17, 2021, 08:04:09 PM

(https://di-uploads-development.dealerinspire.com/kendalldodgechryslerjeepram1/uploads/2016/10/viper-spoiler-kendall-dodge.jpg)
Title: Re: Falcon and the Winter Soldier ***Spoilers***
Post by: perc2100 on March 18, 2021, 08:16:32 AM
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Is it Friday yet?
My school district started in-person education this week, for the first time in slightly over 12 months; we see the students Mon-Thurs and then Fri is synchronous (no in-person class, no zoom, just students working independently).  This week, I've been thrown off constantly on what day of the week it is, thinking I'm a day 'ahead' of what it is.  I legit was making plans to stay up and watch right at midnight last night before my wife reminded me "it's just Wed."  :P
(and of course I wasn't staying up to watch Snyder's Justice League)
Title: Re: Falcon and the Winter Soldier ***Spoilers***
Post by: Chris on March 19, 2021, 11:17:36 AM
Still watching but a few observations:

--When I first heard TV show my main concern was VFX quality.  Disney continues to deliver high quality since Mando
--The TV show format was literally perfect for WV and is giving some welcome character dev that we might not otherwise get.
--These shows are coming at the perfect time with COVID as a reintroduction to normalcy.
-- They also paused on the superhero fatigue that was all over the news in 2019
--While the blip explaining is normal now, I hope that they don't dwell on it indefinitely.
--I have to say that I still miss Cap.

Maybe more when I finish the ep.
Title: Re: Falcon and the Winter Soldier ***Spoilers***
Post by: perc2100 on March 19, 2021, 11:34:34 AM
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--While the blip explaining is normal now, I hope that they don't dwell on it indefinitely.
Yeah, I'm kinda hoping MCU gets it out of its system, for the most part, via these Disney+ series.  While part of me digs exploring Blip-related stuff (and, in the instance here, using The Blip as a catalyst for some significant threat/terrorist group/bad guy is an intriguing idea), I also really dug the very comic-esque way FAR FROM HOME handled it: in a "yeah, this is dense but we're gonna mostly reference it once, sort of blow-it-off or play it for laughs occasionally, and move on with the main story" way.
Again, perhaps if this had come out last summer, when originally planned as the 'kick-off to the next MCU Phase,' with "WandaVision" coming quite a bit after, it wouldn't feel...odd (? or IDK what feeling it's given me, to be honest).  It's not bothersome, per say, but I don't anticipate/hope that other films (or even the "Loki" series) to dwell on it too much.
Title: Re: Falcon and the Winter Soldier ***Spoilers***
Post by: Chris on March 19, 2021, 11:54:19 AM
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Yeah, I'm kinda hoping MCU gets it out of its system, for the most part, via these Disney+ series.  While part of me digs exploring Blip-related stuff (and, in the instance here, using The Blip as a catalyst for some significant threat/terrorist group/bad guy is an intriguing idea), I also really dug the very comic-esque way FAR FROM HOME handled it: in a "yeah, this is dense but we're gonna mostly reference it once, sort of blow-it-off or play it for laughs occasionally, and move on with the main story" way.
Again, perhaps if this had come out last summer, when originally planned as the 'kick-off to the next MCU Phase,' with "WandaVision" coming quite a bit after, it wouldn't feel...odd (? or IDK what feeling it's given me, to be honest).  It's not bothersome, per say, but I don't anticipate/hope that other films (or even the "Loki" series) to dwell on it too much.

Agree.  I just don't want it to turn to Agents of Shield s1 where they mention New York (Avengers 1) every ep.
Title: Re: Falcon and the Winter Soldier ***Spoilers***
Post by: perc2100 on March 19, 2021, 12:14:40 PM
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Agree.  I just don't want it to turn to Agents of Shield s1 where they mention New York (Avengers 1) every ep.
YES!  And this feels like its teetering dangerously close to an "Agents of SHIELD"/Netflix-esque series  :-X
Title: Re: Falcon and the Winter Soldier ***Spoilers***
Post by: perc2100 on March 19, 2021, 12:16:32 PM
I posted my thoughts in another thread, but figured I'd consolidate (and save mods the trouble  :P )
“Falcon and the Winter Soldier” was originally planned to be released summer of 2020: the first new Marvel product that continues following ENDGAME.  The series quickly establishes we’re “a couple months” after folks returned from The Blip, and does indeed feel like an ‘extension’ of the MCU: meaning, more of the same/not really breaking new ground (yet, at least).  In fact, this would feel more at home with the Netflix series, albeit with a better budget + actual MCU movie tie-ins.

I’ve said previously that “WandaVision” set an incredibly high bar for Disney+ MCU series, and frankly “Falcon and the Winter Soldier” falls short a bit.  Maybe this is the part where I mentioned, in full disclosure, that this is the Marvel Disney+ series I’m least excited about: I was more interested in the oddness of “WandaVision,” as well as the time-craziness of “Loki.”  “FatWS” e1 feels a bit like the Star Wars novels felt like in the late 80’s/early 90’s in that it’s coloring in story that while maybe interesting doesn’t feel necessary.  After the opening action set-piece, the episode falls into a kinda sluggishly paced Netflix-esque show (albeit a substantially better-than-most one): with scene-after-scene of our Avenger heroes glumly trying to pickup their pieces and deal with their lives following the events of ENDGAME.

That being said, this is in no way bad, per say, and it wasn't all doom & gloom.  I lol'ed when Sam's sister referenced him off "fighting Doctor Space Cape," and for whatever reason Bucky's therapy session with the government mandated psychiatrist (as part of an Immunity deal) cracked me up.  His therapy kind of felt like a pseudo-AlAnon program where Bucky is striving to make amends for past wrongs: of course here, his 'past wrongs' involve espionage and international assignations; his giving the "I'm not going to hurt you..." before rattling off his pre-scripted apology is making me smirk again just thinking about it.
And in a way, e1 starts similar to where "WandaVision" ended up becoming about: Sam & Bucky (who do NOT share screen time in the first 50 minute episode of the series) are grieving both Steven's exit from the spotlight (we don't know if he's dead or in hiding or whatnot) and trying to put their lives back together after the Blip + epic fight to save the universe.  The series starts with Sam pondering on Steve's words asking him how it felt to hold the shield, and when Sam says it feels like it belongs to someone else Steve quickly affirms it doesn't: exuding his confidence in Sam (that Sam doesn't yet have).  We're quickly swept into the series' first action set-piece where we not only see Sam's Falcon suit seemingly looking brighter than in past films, but also a pseudo-Iron Man tech that is a be all/end all for whatever Sam could need.  Also brought back in this opening fight: Batroc, last seen in CAPTAIN AMERICA: THE WINTER SOLDIER opening sequence!  I really love how well Kevin Feige et al have molded the MCU with the same ethos as the Marvel comics came up with BITD, where anyone can pop in or out of a storyline, and with a cleanly directed action sequence to kick off the series.

And while this first ep felt like 50 minutes of set-up (spoiler: because it is), it does feel like a nice way to flesh out Bucky & Sam.  We get to see Sam's family & home life, Bucky continuing his quest to try and right himself we saw near the end of CIVIL WAR, etc.  Anthony Mackie in particular is an excellent actor, and I hope we get to see him stretch his dramatic chops a bit here throughout the series; his recent performance in SYNCHRONIC is really wonderful, and I want to see him do more!  As set-up premier episodes go, this feels FAR more in-line with the MCU than "WandaVision"'s premier eps felt.  While most of us were wonder "WTF is this series headed?!" during "WandaVision"'s first 50 or so minutes, there is no doubt where "Falcon and the Winter Soldier" will be headed - in familiar MCU territory. I do think it's fascinating to see this series (as well, to a lesser extent seemingly, as "WandaVision") tackle The Blip: something the neither the Russo Bros nor their screenwriters really cared to consider the long-term impact of (and, honestly, why would they? They were essentially exiting the MCU after ENDGAME to move on to other things so it wasn't really their future-problem or concern).  I dig how this show is digging into how big of a mess Tony Stark created for the world, not wanting to 'erase' his daughter by going back to the pre-Blip moment instead of keeping it 5 years in the future.  We have terrorist cells that have popped up now because they want to return to the world where half of the universe population was gone.  Rhodey put it best early in the ep, setting up what I presume is the theme of the series: "The world's broke; everybody's just looking for someone to fix it."  Currently Sam doesn't seem interested in being that guy (and at the end of the ep. the US Government finds its new Captain America to assuage the unrest of the people) but we all know he and Bucky will step in to fill that role.

Some comic nerd stuff:
* I presume 'Imposter Cap' will turn into US Agent?
* Flag-Smasher is the name of the mentioned terrorist cell; in the comics, that was the name of a singular bad guy, here repurposed as a group
* I mentioned Falcon's suit being a bit brighter, leaning on its red color scheme; that reminded me that in the comics for awhile it was actually green (!)  ???
* in the comics, The Avengers were paid a stipend set up by Stark as a charity foundation in his mom's name (I remember Peter Parker, needing money badly, wanting to join The Avengers mostly for that monthly stipend).  In the MCU we seemingly learn the Avengers do NOT get paid?!  We know in CIVIL WAR Star set up a charitable fund in his mom's name for...MIT students.  I guess I had assumed from the movies that The Avengers were government employees but apparently not?
* I admittedly swooned a bit seeing Jack Kirby's Captain America #1 cover as part of the Smithsonian exhibit honoring Captain America near the beginning

What did you all think?  I liked this, but I'm not anxious to watch it again anytime soon like I was after "WandaVision"'s first few eps.  I think this would've worked FAR better if it were able to have premiered as the next thing after ENDGAME (yet another reason for us to all curse COVID-19, which shut-down production on this series and delayed its release)
Title: Re: Falcon and the Winter Soldier ***Spoilers***
Post by: Chris on March 19, 2021, 01:40:11 PM
Yeah, I think that the stipend was $50k/year in the comics.  I'll have to find that one.

Edit:  * in the mid 80s
Title: Re: Falcon and the Winter Soldier ***Spoilers***
Post by: mark on March 19, 2021, 02:44:43 PM
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Yeah, I think that the stipend was $50k/year in the comics.  I'll have to find that one.

Edit:  * in the mid 80s

Avengers 236 :) Spidey tries to join the avengers in part for the $1000 a week so he can help pay for Black Cat's medical bills.
Title: Re: Falcon and the Winter Soldier ***Spoilers***
Post by: perc2100 on March 19, 2021, 02:46:55 PM
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Avengers 236 :) Spidey tries to join the avengers in part for the $1000 a week so he can help pay for Black Cat's medical bills.
Yes!! I couldn't quite remember the specifics, I just knew good ol' cash-strapped Parker needing money & was looking to join The Avengers for that sweet, sweet Stark stipend.  :P
Title: Re: Falcon and the Winter Soldier ***Spoilers***
Post by: NCDS on March 19, 2021, 04:27:17 PM
If I don't get to watch Wannabe Cap's A$$ get kicked I am going to be upset!
Title: Re: Falcon and the Winter Soldier ***Spoilers***
Post by: Chris on March 19, 2021, 05:01:28 PM
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If I don't get to watch Wannabe Caps A$$ get kicked I am going to be upset!

Yeah!  #cantreplacechrisevans
Title: Re: Falcon and the Winter Soldier ***Spoilers***
Post by: Chris on March 19, 2021, 05:02:50 PM
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Yes!! I couldn't quite remember the specifics, I just knew good ol' cash-strapped Parker needing money & was looking to join The Avengers for that sweet, sweet Stark stipend.  :P

The quote I remember went something like "I want to be an avenger so i can sit around the mansion counting all the zeros in my paycheck."
Title: Re: Falcon and the Winter Soldier ***Spoilers***
Post by: NCDS on March 19, 2021, 06:18:37 PM
I am pretty sure Stark left everyone money but those that sided with Cap. That man can hold a grudge!
Title: Re: Falcon and the Winter Soldier ***Spoilers***
Post by: perc2100 on March 19, 2021, 06:29:07 PM
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I am pretty sure Stark left everyone money but those that sided with Cap. That man can hold a grudge!
Right; Rhodey was chill in his scene with Sam because you know his ol' pal Tony hooked him UP!  :P
Title: Re: Falcon and the Winter Soldier ***Spoilers***
Post by: Chris on March 19, 2021, 07:18:35 PM
Is it Friday yet?
Title: Re: Falcon and the Winter Soldier ***Spoilers***
Post by: perc2100 on March 26, 2021, 11:57:34 AM
Episode 2, "The Star Spangled Man" was a real solid episode: it hooked me and excited much more than the premier.  Obviously the premier episode of any series is tasked with setting up the story, characters, themes etc. and e1 of FatWS felt a little mopey and moody given the themes they're seemingly aiming for.  E2 picks things up nicely, highlighting things that we know already work with the characters (like their adversarial banter between each other), and things that worked in the premier (big action set-piece, that I'll get into shortly; and...yea!!!...another therapy session).  Last week I was slightly unenthusiastic about the series feeling like 'stock MCU' (which, I typically do love) and less 'taking creative chances w/Marvel properties by going in different directions ala "WandaVision".'  This week did more of what works in the MCU well and I'm all-in at this point; they evenly quickly "rectified" (note: not a problem for me at all) the situation of our two headliners not sharing screen time rather quickly in e2.

Let's talk about the new Captain America, Wyatt Russell's John Walker.  Last week I immediately wanted to hate him, but knew I couldn't because he's Kurt Russell's kid and I absolutely can't hate anything that comes from Kurt Russell: especially since Wyatt has that 'Kurt Russell vibe' going for him.  This week we got a bit more about John Walker: some nuance that tells us this is a legit amazing US soldier who also is a touch arrogant.  So far, though, MCU Walker is a bit less abrasive than the comic version.  In the comics, Walker was a significant contrast to Steve Rogers, having come into fruition in the 1980's.  Walker is Reagan-esque compared to Cap's FDR ideals; Walker from the south vs Steve from Brooklyn; Walker more to the right politically while Steve was more to the left; Walker in the comics was much more arrogant and cocky, while Steve was modest and humble.  We even get his partner/'sidekick' reminding him that he "...can't just punch your way out of problems" suggesting maybe some anger issues to-be-explored in the future.  A scene where Walker suggest Flacon and Bucky (who is not happy being addressed via Steve's longtime friendship nickname) were just "Cap's Wingmen" suggests the tension we'll be seeing coming up between the characters.

And about Lemar, Walker's partner/friend.  He's right from the comics too, with the same code name of Battlestar (albeit without the incredibly dated looking costume from the comics).  We didn't see a ton of him yet, but he's Walker's BFF in the comics: he even had the nickname of Bucky for awhile, in a bit of on-the-nose comic synergy (it was a version of 'Bold Urban Commandos'/BUC) but was dropped in the comics when the writer realized 'buck' was an offense slur for Black people in some regions of the country.  The adversarial vibe between Bucky & Sam vs Walker & Lemar at the end, after the heroes are released from jail, is a nice dynamic that will almost certainly get a payoff sooner rather than later.

Most of us are watching this series because we like the back-and-forth between Sam & Bucky, and this episode delivers that for us.  In fact, actor Anthony Mackie feels like a better actor when conversing with Sebastian Stan: with a more nuanced and natural performance than when he delivers exposition or other dialogue with other characters.  Between the acting & humorous convos, these two are already proving to be every bit as awesome of a pairing as we hoped from what we saw in CIVIL WAR & the latest AVENGERS movies.  A highlight for me was the "couples therapy" session, though this week it had less of a "The Sopranos" vibe than in e1.  All three of our actors REALLY work well together: all adversarial but comical (even if letting our heroes work out their differences in couples therapy makes very little real-world sense - I mean, she just _met_ Sam after all!).  I've never been a huge fan of Sebastian Stan as Winter Soldier; I've always felt like he was pretty wooden and lame as the character, lacking charisma.  These two eps, though, I've had the revelation he's really just playing the character incredibly low-key all along, and his sense of humor/joke delivery in this series is soooo my jam!  What I thought was charisma-lacking was really hiding his incredibly dry humor & wit!  We knew the back-and-forth between the headlines would be the key to this series (and we were expecting it to be entertaining), and this show is delivering!  I don't think I can overstate that the duo is really a perfect pairing for this type of "buddy team-up" series.

This is a packed episode, and it felt like the big action scene was a off: slightly uneven, with some incredibly wonky CGI (of Sam flying around - which was reminiscent of wonky Spidey CGI from the otherwise impeccable Raimi movies) but it did give us one major revelation.  We now know the Flag Smasher are seeming 'Super Soldiers' of some type: in interesting wrinkle that I look forward to hearing fleshed out.  I also dug their 'leader,' Karli.  In the comics Flag Smasher was a bad guy (singular) named 'Karl,' so props to the MCU for this gender-flipped homage.  The Flag Smasher seem to have a legitimate stance regarding how those Blipped-back are getting preferential treatment vs those who were there for the five years that had to deal with the aftermath of the tragedy/crisis (it's also kind of a reminder how big of a selfish a-hole Stark was by creating these HUGE problems in the world, though as a father I can't begrudge him too much I guess).  Also the series leaned heavily again into the systemic racism theme: first we learned Sam the Avenger can't even get a small business loan, and this week he's hassled by cops and presumed to be the cause of a mild dispute with Bucky.  While most of this series was almost certainly shot before last summer's racial protests, I do appreciate Marvel Studios addressing racial strife within the MCU: and showing us that even The Avengers who have saved the world numerous times now still have their own problems & get hassled by 'the man.'
This episode alleviated any doubts I may have had last week, and now I feel pretty all-in with "Falcon and the Winter Soldier" (not that I had much doubt, to be honest).

Some other tidbits:
* Sam arguing with Bucky about the Big 3 bad guys they fight = Androids, Aliens, and Wizards had me laughing (especially Bucky coming back suggesting they have to fight Gandolf).  BUT, of course, as a nerd we know that's not accurate.  I mean, within the entirety of the MCU Cap films the bad guys were Nazis, HYDRA, and Baron Zemo (who we'll see again, possibly next episodes if the last scene is any indication).

* the HS marching band that performs for Walker had me cracking up playing a pepped-up version of "Star Spangled Man With a Plan" from the original CAP film!  It was a fun arrangement (and I missed what college show band they used in the series, though the HS was set in Georgia and Marvel Studios is in Atlanta area so there are a few options they could've gone with - credited as 'Captain America Drum Corps' and coordinated by the same educator/expert that was the advisor for DRUMLINE and other such endeavors).  As a HS band teacher I may be persuaded to find/arrange that piece myself as a goofy/fun pep band chart for my marching band next year  :P

* speaking of music, when Walker comes in to save the day in that opening mission, I really dug the 'retooling' of Alan Silvestri's iconic Captain America theme music.  Cap's theme is maybe the most recognizable/best theme/musical motif in the MCU so it was a blast to hear it reworked a bit here when Fake Cap jumps in to save our heroes (in Walker's first big heroic appearance in the series, no less).

* I dug the What Wolf reference, first heard from T'Challa in INFINITY WAR!  In the comics White Wolf was T'Challa's adopted White brother who worked for the king; it's nice to hear that nickname from T'Challa still floating around the MCU  8)

* we still haven't heard what's happened to Steve: is he dead or just in retirement somewhere?  It feels like it's not beyond the realm of possibility that we _could_ see a Chris Evans-in-old-man-makeup make a cameo to give Sam a pep talk to take up the shield and become the _real_ new Captain America.

* Isaiah Bradley makes his first appearance in the MCU.  I was just schooled by a buddy of mine about Bradley's history in the comics: he only survivor of a test of a Super Soldier Serum similar to the one used on Cap in the early 00's comic "Truth: Red, White, and Black."  I'm told Bradley fighting Winter Soldier in the early 50's is at least somewhat different from the comic book version, though same as the comics Bradley alludes to being thrown in prison despite his heroics for his country (same as the comic, from what I'm told).  It's a seven-issue story that I just picked up on comixology and look forward to reading (I'm assuming I'm going to magically have some free time in the very near future: maybe if I log off and stop writing so damn much... :-X )

* on one last, mostly unrelated note....
James Gunn dropped the trailer for his THE SUICIDE SQUAD while I was halfway done with e2.  I purposefully decided to wait and watch the trailer until after I was done, and boy am I glad I did.  That trailer rocked my world, and I'm glad I saw FatWS a 'fair'/full attention watch before being distracted with
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and other amazing James Gunn-goodness!  Surely I would've been way distracted for too long had I interrupted FatWS with THE SUICIDE SQUAD trailer, so I'm glad FatWS got my full attention prior  :P ;D
Title: Re: Falcon and the Winter Soldier ***Spoilers***
Post by: MickeyJack on March 27, 2021, 02:19:16 PM
Excellent analysis! Regarding Gandalf, I loved Bucky's comeback that he read The Hobbit in 1937, the year after it was published. Nice nugget for us nerds.
Title: Re: Falcon and the Winter Soldier ***Spoilers***
Post by: Chris on March 27, 2021, 02:55:24 PM
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Excellent analysis! Regarding Gandalf, I loved Bucky's comeback that he read The Hobbit in 1937, the year after it was published. Nice nugget for us nerds.

Yeah, that was a nice one.
Title: Re: Falcon and the Winter Soldier ***Spoilers***
Post by: Pyramid on March 28, 2021, 05:42:13 AM
I am loving everything about this show especially the nuance of the vilians, The Flag-Smashers!  They are not simply cookie cutter baddies.  The characterization of Sam, Walker, and Bucky are superb.  Looking forward to more episodes!
Title: Re: Falcon and the Winter Soldier ***Spoilers***
Post by: perc2100 on March 29, 2021, 11:05:33 AM
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I am loving everything about this show especially the nuance of the vilians, The Flag-Smashers!  They are not simply cookie cutter baddies.  The characterization of Sam, Walker, and Bucky are superb.  Looking forward to more episodes!
I agree; the MCU has kind of 'grown up' with their villains.  In the Phase 1 & many Phase 2 the villains felt mostly like disposable cookie-cutter "bad guys" (Loki, obviously, the exception).  Getting to IRON MAN THREE (to a less extent), WINTER SOLDIER, etc. and beyond they've done a better job of framing the villains as different shades of grey: not exactly sympathetic, but I think an empathetic viewer could look at 'em and at least think "OK, Robert Redford's character is a little evil but I can kind of see where he's coming from with this authoritarian-esque government thinking."  Especially the slate of films running up to INFINITY WAR, villains in the MCU are more nuanced and empathetic (who make bad decisions).  Not all of them (Klaw, obviously, is an arms dealer which is in no way grey or empathetic), but a lot of them are (Killmonger, conversely, is violently militant which isn't good, but his viewpoints and POV are understandable even if you disagree).

FatWS is similar.  I'm not 100% sure I understand the specifics of _how_ the Flag Smashers plan on getting back to the Blip/ 1/2 'order' but I can empathize with their seeming thoughts that their needs and voices are going unheard and unaddressed.
Title: Re: Falcon and the Winter Soldier ***Spoilers***
Post by: Chris on March 29, 2021, 04:48:30 PM
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I am loving everything about this show especially the nuance of the vilians, The Flag-Smashers!  They are not simply cookie cutter baddies.  The characterization of Sam, Walker, and Bucky are superb.  Looking forward to more episodes!

When I first saw the previews, I thought it might be The Hand.  I think Marvel has those rights back with the DD/Wolvie rights back from Fox.
Title: Re: Falcon and the Winter Soldier ***Spoilers***
Post by: Michael M on April 02, 2021, 02:42:57 PM
I don't know about you folks, but when that Marvel fanfare comes on in the beginning, I turn that $#!7 up to 11! :D
Title: Re: Falcon and the Winter Soldier ***Spoilers***
Post by: Pyramid on April 06, 2021, 05:34:24 AM
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I don't know about you folks, but when that Marvel fanfare comes on in the beginning, I turn that $#!7 up to 11! :D
Or hum right along with it!  lol
Title: Re: Falcon and the Winter Soldier ***Spoilers***
Post by: Michael M on April 08, 2021, 03:05:30 PM
One hour of dancing Zemo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nEzCv5u1O8)

Brilliant!
Title: Re: Falcon and the Winter Soldier ***Spoilers***
Post by: perc2100 on April 08, 2021, 06:22:10 PM
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One hour of dancing Zemo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nEzCv5u1O8)

Brilliant!
I'll be honest, with zero MCU branding & with/without context Daniel Brühl clubbing is awesome  :P
Title: Re: Falcon and the Winter Soldier ***Spoilers***
Post by: Pyramid on April 09, 2021, 05:58:52 AM
On my third rewatch of S!:E4 The Whole World is Watching and that last shot is perfect.  Really excited where Walker is going.  Oh, and buying Captain America 323 to get it CGC.   ;D
Title: Re: Falcon and the Winter Soldier ***Spoilers***
Post by: perc2100 on April 09, 2021, 09:46:47 AM
"Falcon and the Winter Solider" isn't a bad show: it's fairly solid with its acting & directing.  But it does seem to be incredibly comic accurate in the sense that with rare occasions (like may Christopher Priest's run), The Falcon makes a FAR better character in a team-up/ensemble setting than as a headliner.  It feels like the creatives of this series don't have a ton to add to his character beyond some of his family issues and social issues being Black in America.

When one of my all-time favorite bands The Beastie Boys, the one I've probably adored the longest in my life, put out their album 'To The 5 Boroughs' I discussed with friends with legit wonder, "if a band I love puts out an album that breaks little new ground and is more-of-the-same done well, is that good or a slight disappointment?"  I think the same can be said here of FatWS: a competently shot series now 2/3rds finished with solid acting and action set-pieces that feels like is kind of crawling through the storyline and not really revealing much about its core characters.  The actors are fine, with Daniel Brühl standing out for me, but this feels _almost_ like a slog to sit through.  The last couple of weeks I've mostly watched passively; while there is some intriguing set-up between Bucky still trying to adjust to his 'new normal' as well as the social commentary of the terrorist group Flag Smashers (with their leader, played by Erin Kellyman who's doing the best with what she has to work with), it feels like either there wasn't enough story to space out over 6ish hours or our main characters are kind of boring by themselves. 

Again, that's not to say this is a _bad_ show - there's a lot going for it, and I'm legit interested to see where US Agent/John Walker goes: though if I'm being honest I think episode 3 could've ended with Walker's 'rage' from the end of e4 and have been better, getting us to this point sooner with a tighter story.  This show seems to be good at setting up conflict, but not great at fleshing it out or developing its characters all that well.

IDK; I'm not going to harp too much here.  I'm hoping the last couple of eps end strong but I can't help but feel more excited for the June "Loki" series than I am for next week's penultimate FatWS episode

I will say this, though: the shot of the Wakanda Dora Milaje soldier holding Cap's shield as some of the best imagery of this series so far!

Also, the options for who exactly the 'Power Broker' is (with the writers being careful not to attach any pronouns so they can be male/female/non-binary) at this point all feel like fairly weak structural ideas: Sharon Carter going way off-the-rails; someone we already know in the MCU; someone who is brand new to the MCU that will get a grand reveal next week; a red-herring/someone who doesn't exist as more than just an ideal.  I thought maybe Zemo would be the Power Broker for a hot minute until he seemed to adamant to destroy the Super Solider serum
Title: Re: Falcon and the Winter Soldier ***Spoilers***
Post by: chocolateshake on April 09, 2021, 11:33:36 AM
My small pet peeve is that even though it is made for TV, they filmed it at a movie aspect ratio instead of at a TV aspect ratio. They are wasting precious screen space. I guess they wanted to keep that cinematic MCU feel.
Title: Re: Falcon and the Winter Soldier ***Spoilers***
Post by: puppy on April 09, 2021, 03:30:23 PM
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My small pet peeve is that even though it is made for TV, they filmed it at a movie aspect ratio instead of at a TV aspect ratio. They are wasting precious screen space. I guess they wanted to keep that cinematic MCU feel.

Forgive my ignorance, but I thought most TVs are widescreen now. Am I wrong? Do movies not actually fit widescreen TVs?
Title: Re: Falcon and the Winter Soldier ***Spoilers***
Post by: chocolateshake on April 09, 2021, 10:03:10 PM
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Forgive my ignorance, but I thought most TVs are widescreen now. Am I wrong? Do movies not actually fit widescreen TVs?

In the beginning there was one aspect ratio to rule them all, 4:3.  In the early days of film, they experimented with a variety of aspect ratios and settle on 4:3.  Thus it remained for decades.  Then an upstart appeared on the scene to compete for the attention of an audience, TV.  TV adopted the same 4:3 aspect ratio.  This sent a chill through the movie industry fearing that people would stop going to movies and watch TV instead.  So they sought to differentiate themselves.  They went back to something that was experimented with earlier, a wider aspect ratio.  Thus 1.85:1 and 2.40:1(2.35,2.39) were adopted as the popular aspect ratios to film movies in.  When HDTV was proposed, they had to pick a aspect ratio for that.  There were different ones in the running.  I still have and use a 16:10 HD resolution monitor.  In the end they settled on 16:9 as a good compromise that could display both 4:3 and 2.40:1 aspect ratio content.

So for modern wide screen TVs the aspect ratio is 16:9(1.8:1).  Falcon and the Winter Soldier is being filmed in movie 2.40:1 AR.  Thus it's displayed in a letterbox on a HDTV, there's empty unused space above and below.
Title: Re: Falcon and the Winter Soldier ***Spoilers***
Post by: MickeyJack on April 11, 2021, 07:14:14 AM
Sebastian Stan needs to get Emmy consideration for acting in his White Wolf flashback scene.


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Title: Re: Falcon and the Winter Soldier ***Spoilers***
Post by: Chris on April 12, 2021, 08:10:20 PM
Random thoughts from the last 2 episodes:
--Madripoor!  When's Wolvie showing up?  Snikt!
--It's nice to see some of the previously smaller characters get the limelight
--Not a fan of the cussing as I would hate for parents to not let their kids enjoy these shows
--Sharon Carter!  My girlfriend is back!
--I like the new look for Bucky's arm
--Zemo.  Marvel continues to find ways to adapt comic design into believable "real world" costumes
--While I liked the fact that the scientist's work was lost to the blip, I'm over the blip, no one say blip
--Nit pick:  I am not a fan of the primary color lighting--red on one side of the face/yellow one the other, etc.  It's a cheap trick in my opinion that that this show is better than
--Anybody else see the x-symbol on the gate of the GRC company when the Flag Smashers were talking by the scooter?  I know it's not x-them, but it's nice to know they're coming.
--LOVED the emotional impact of Bucky being free and what that meant to him
--This new "Cap" seriously needs to get his @$$ kicked. Like hard n'stuff.
Title: Re: Falcon and the Winter Soldier ***Spoilers***
Post by: Pyramid on April 14, 2021, 06:42:39 AM
I have now rewatched episode four ten times.  So yeah, I love the show. I have my own thoughts on this but I am curious what do you think Walker will do with the extra vial of Super Soldier Serum?  I think he's
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Title: Re: Falcon and the Winter Soldier ***Spoilers***
Post by: perc2100 on April 14, 2021, 09:38:09 AM
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I have now rewatched episode four ten times.  So yeah, I love the show. I have my own thoughts on this but I am curious what do you think Walker will do with the extra vial of Super Soldier Serum?  I think he's
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I really dig the fact that Marvel Studios wrote and likely even shot a lot of this series before COVID & the swell of BLM protests: this series is a sort of 'accidental'/slightly unintentional reflection of modern times (yes: racial injustice and systemic racism have existed well before Marvel Studios, let alone FatWS; yes: good writers are able to think/write in-the-moment and maybe even slightly anticipate future sentiment/feelings).  While obviously the Flag Smashers are violent in their means, that sense of loneliness and feelings of being ignored and unheard in society feel right in the wheelhouse of where we're at right now in time coming a year+ into a pandemic that's shut most of us off from society, caused many to lose their job and/or business, etc.
Title: Re: Falcon and the Winter Soldier ***Spoilers***
Post by: Chris on April 14, 2021, 10:54:30 AM
He took it.  At one point after a supermove, Falcon said "what did you do?"
Title: Re: Falcon and the Winter Soldier ***Spoilers***
Post by: chocolateshake on April 14, 2021, 12:49:12 PM
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I have now rewatched episode four ten times.  So yeah, I love the show. I have my own thoughts on this but I am curious what do you think Walker will do with the extra vial of Super Soldier Serum?  I think he's
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Title: Re: Falcon and the Winter Soldier ***Spoilers***
Post by: perc2100 on April 15, 2021, 01:48:23 PM
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Title: Re: Falcon and the Winter Soldier ***Spoilers***
Post by: chocolateshake on April 15, 2021, 10:03:32 PM
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Title: Re: Falcon and the Winter Soldier ***Spoilers***
Post by: Pyramid on April 16, 2021, 06:56:37 AM
First thing I did this morning was watch Falcon and the Winter Soldier.  I nerded out when
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  More important than that is how the show is dealing with race in America.  So many sides are being presented and debated between character motivations.

"What is the point of all the pain and sacrifice if I wasn't willing to keep fighting."  This line doesn't just refer to Sam but I think to all of us as Americans who need to keep fighting against racism and other societal ills.

And Sam
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  The scene with the vote on the Patch Act was a nice nod to Dr. Strangelove.  I absolutely love this show.
Title: Re: Falcon and the Winter Soldier ***Spoilers***
Post by: Chris on April 16, 2021, 12:46:36 PM
Notes:
--Falcon always felt like a main character to me who never got enough screen time.  Now he does.
--Bucky never felt like a main character to me until this show
--I seriously NEED a film quality cap shield
--LOVE the way they use Falcon's wings in combat
--After 5 years I can't believe that they adapted a costume for Batroq the Leaper
--When Sam's nephew chased him around the house, I was dying for an "on your left" quote
--I liked the downtime episode like they do with the comics issues to show characters being people and not all action

Me talking to the TV:  "Why does Bucky just use his metal arm"
Bucky:  "I'm right handed."
Me:  "Ah."
Title: Re: Falcon and the Winter Soldier ***Spoilers***
Post by: Chris on April 16, 2021, 01:54:28 PM
By the way, I think they could have left the whole flag smasher/zemo part out and still had a compelling story about the legacy of the shield, what it means to me a soldier/super soldier, and that cap was more than a shield and couldn't just be replaced that easily.

And saying goodbye to Chris Evans.  ::sniff!::
Title: Re: Falcon and the Winter Soldier ***Spoilers***
Post by: perc2100 on April 16, 2021, 02:21:49 PM
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By the way, I think they could have left the whole flag smasher/zemo part out and still had a compelling story about the legacy of the shield, what it means to me a soldier/super soldier, and that cap was more than a shield and couldn't just be replaced that easily.

And saying goodbye to Chris Evans.  ::sniff!::
TOTALLY agree with this. It almost feels like the idea for the series might've sprung with a character study (not dissimilar to "WandaVision") but Marvel Studios/creatives felt they had to justify it with some sort of action plot.  Episode 5 was my favorite of the bunch so far because it felt like its the first episode that truly had something to say about the characters.  I've mostly enjoyed this series, though I'd call it "less Marvel:" mostly good for its run-time but nothing something I think much about after-the-fact.  There have been some solid developments, but I agree that almost everything I've liked has little to do with the "stop the Flag Smashers" storyline.  I do like the series exploring the 'post-Blip' trauma and the chaos Stark caused with his selfishness of maintaining the 5-year period when bringing everything back, and I do like actress Erin Kellyman so I'm not _unhappy_ with anything in the show (if that makes sense).

That being said, it feels like the penultimate episode of the series has left a TON of developments up-in-the-air for the final episode's resolve, and it feels like some of the pacing throughout has been suspect IMO: meaning, it's developed fairly slowly only to build to what will likely feel like an incredibly faced-paced (hopefully not rushed) conclusion next week.  This was a great episode: that type I had wished the whole series was modeled after.  I kind of wish (as I said last week), that this ep came with 2 more eps left in the series so we can have a little bit more time to breathe/reflect with what the star characters are going through.  Next week besides what will certainly be at least one huge action set-piece (if not a couple), I'm sincerely hoping to see Bucky's psychiatrist again for one last Sopranos-esque session (though with Bucky's growth it likely wouldn't be as funny as the 1st couple eps so maybe it's best to keep that as a humorous memory at this point for me)

Oh, and of course the MOST awesome thing about this episode (IMO):
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Title: Re: Falcon and the Winter Soldier ***Spoilers***
Post by: chocolateshake on April 16, 2021, 04:17:54 PM
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And Sam
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  The scene with the vote on the Patch Act was a nice nod to Dr. Strangelove.  I absolutely love this show.

There was the nod to Rocky montage part of the episode as well.  Didn't it seem that Sam was pretty good with the shield when he was tossing it around with Bucky but then he got really bad at the start of the Rocky montage.  Was that a flashback?

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And saying goodbye to Chris Evans.  ::sniff!::

I've missed something.  Is Cap dead?  They talk like he is.  How did that happen?  The last I remember of him he was old but not dead.  Did I miss it?
Title: Re: Falcon and the Winter Soldier ***Spoilers***
Post by: Chris on April 16, 2021, 04:25:12 PM
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There was the nod to Rocky montage part of the episode as well.  Didn't it seem that Sam was pretty good with the shield when he was tossing it around with Bucky but then he got really bad at the start of the Rocky montage.  Was that a flashback?

I've missed something.  Is Cap dead?  They talk like he is.  How did that happen?  The last I remember of him he was old but not dead.  Did I miss it?

Don't know.  My point was more that he ain't gonna be in the movies no more.
Title: Re: Falcon and the Winter Soldier ***Spoilers***
Post by: chocolateshake on April 16, 2021, 04:30:20 PM
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Don't know.  My point was more that he ain't gonna be in the movies no more.

Before this week's episode, I was hoping for a showdown scene between Walker and Cap.  A surprise cameo by Chris Evans to take back the shield from the fake Captain America.
Title: Re: Falcon and the Winter Soldier ***Spoilers***
Post by: perc2100 on April 16, 2021, 04:30:48 PM
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I've missed something.  Is Cap dead?  They talk like he is.  How did that happen?  The last I remember of him he was old but not dead.  Did I miss it?
I don't think they've ever clarified, and this is only a few months after ENDGAME so unless he had a quick death after passing the shield to Sam, he's still out there somewhere, I think.  I kinda dig how Marvel Studios creatives (can't remember who - maybe the director?) teased a big cameo this week; I have to think there were a decent amount of folks who thought "oooh: Chris Evans as Oldman Cap making a cameo?!"  I admittedly entertained the notion for a second, but figured that'd be a bit too gimmicky for Marvel (I thought maybe Sam paying a secret visit to Steve, and Steve giving him a pep talk on why he should indeed stop being stubborn and wield the shield might've been in play, but didn't put much thought/stock into that idea more than a minute or so).

*EDIT*
As I was typing my reply this was posted  :P
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Before this week's episode, I was hoping for a showdown scene between Walker and Cap.  A surprise cameo by Chris Evans to take back the shield from the fake Captain America.
Title: Re: Falcon and the Winter Soldier ***Spoilers***
Post by: Chris on April 16, 2021, 06:16:34 PM
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Before this week's episode, I was hoping for a showdown scene between Walker and Cap.  A surprise cameo by Chris Evans to take back the shield from the fake Captain America.

That would be so cool. I would die.
Title: Re: Falcon and the Winter Soldier ***Spoilers***
Post by: chocolateshake on April 16, 2021, 06:31:02 PM
So what's in the box?

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Title: Re: Falcon and the Winter Soldier ***Spoilers***
Post by: Chris on April 17, 2021, 10:47:30 AM
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So what's in the box?

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Marcellus Wallace's soul?
Title: Re: Falcon and the Winter Soldier ***Spoilers***
Post by: mark on April 17, 2021, 12:11:13 PM
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Marcellus Wallace's soul?

better than some other possibilities, gwyneth paltrow is in the mcu after all ...
Title: Re: Falcon and the Winter Soldier ***Spoilers***
Post by: Chris on April 17, 2021, 12:31:27 PM
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better than some other possibilities, gwyneth paltrow is in the mcu after all ...

Dude
Title: Re: Falcon and the Winter Soldier ***Spoilers***
Post by: perc2100 on April 17, 2021, 04:03:17 PM
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Marcellus Wallace's soul?
Nah; it didn't have that glow (of what were diamonds in the script but ultimately cut because QT already did the diamond thing in RESERVOIR DOGS)  :P

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So what's in the box?

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Agree; I totally think it's likely a
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I'm kinda curious to see what it looks like myself; the Falcon-Cap suit in the comics https://images.app.goo.gl/P6VWUYabCZxrALGN6 was an absolutely amazing-looking design so I've been dying for a month and change to see what Sam's new costume will look like!!
Title: Re: Falcon and the Winter Soldier ***Spoilers***
Post by: Michael M on April 18, 2021, 05:03:36 AM
I'm going w/the Falcon/Cap design you see in the comics.  Holding out for some comics-authenticity here, plus it'd be sooooo cool.
Title: Re: Falcon and the Winter Soldier ***Spoilers***
Post by: chocolateshake on April 18, 2021, 01:11:02 PM
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I'm going w/the Falcon/Cap design you see in the comics.  Holding out for some comics-authenticity here, plus it'd be sooooo cool.

I can't wait to see it in the next episode.  I don't read the comics so it'll be a surprise for me.
Title: Re: Falcon and the Winter Soldier ***Spoilers***
Post by: Chris on April 20, 2021, 07:47:03 AM
Is it Friday yet?
Title: Re: Falcon and the Winter Soldier ***Spoilers***
Post by: Miclpea on April 20, 2021, 02:20:56 PM
This show is just awesome!


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Title: Re: Falcon and the Winter Soldier ***Spoilers***
Post by: chocolateshake on April 23, 2021, 01:24:44 AM
They did change the name of the show.
Title: Re: Falcon and the Winter Soldier ***Spoilers***
Post by: Michael M on April 23, 2021, 01:34:32 PM
Loved how
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really brought the story to a close.

And man
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look freakin' awesome or what!?!?

*Great* show!

Marvel hit it outta the park again w/series #2.  Here's to Loki up next!
Title: Re: Falcon and the Winter Soldier ***Spoilers***
Post by: perc2100 on April 23, 2021, 06:00:39 PM
OK, I hate to be a contrarian, and I promise it's not _that_ bad, but I thought the finale/series was OK: I wasn't great and it wasn't bad.  The finale had a bunch of character beats that didn't felt earned, and when one thinks too much the Flag Smashers' story arc, it's difficult to come up with much other than "huh."  I mean, they're painted with such a broad brush I feel like we don't _really_ know what their motivation is, what their eventual/actual plan was, etc.  The series vaguely mentions that they want to “return to how life was during the Blip” but fails to explain what that really means; the show doesn't delve into what the 'boarder situation' really means to the Flag Smashers.  That plot line (sub-plot?) doesn't make much sense.
And there's not much explanation regarding what's up with John Walker, why he suddenly changed (kind of?  He at least changed enough to be cool fighting side-by-side Bucky & Sam to take down the Flag Smashers), and it feels Marvel delivered him a pseudo-redemption arc that didn't exactly feel earned.  I have an understanding of the comic character, and get that his arc has been 'complicated' anyway (as are most comic character story arcs when the characters hang around long enough); but it felt like he went from legit pure-villain material at the end of e5, into stepping in to help save the day out of know where in e6.  And then we have Sharon Carter.  The Power Broker revelation that only makes sense in an incredibly broad manner: as in "she was pooped-on by her government and now it's payback time" kind of broad comic book villainy that works better in the funny pages than the big screen/TV.

And our heroes seemed to have a fairly muddled character arc, as well.  Bucky felt like he grew, and worked on his growth but Sam's felt a bit wonkier to me.  It's like the creatives were setting up some deeper dive into the African American experience only to have him jump back into the hero fray because the plot dictated that big action 3rd act finale.

But, of course, the real question for me is always "does the movie/show/book/whatever art work well enough for me to not get too bogged down in its flaws?"  In this case, I think the answer is "Yes."  I can't not see Sam in his awesome suit and smile like a dopey kid.  I can't not chuckle at Bucky's one-liners.  I was happy to spend some more time with Zemo, and I'm glad he's still kicking around the MCU waiting to be sprung to populate another adventure*.  I can't see Julia Louis-Dreyfus as Valentina Allegra de Fontaine (I'm just gonna call her "Val," consequences be damned) and not smile from ear-to-ear that we get her in the MCU and I sincerely hope to see more of her*

This show had some good action set-pieces, and made me at least chuckle a few times per episode.  I certainly liked it better than some MCU films (I'm looking at your THOR THE DARK WORLD), and it was a fun way to spend every Friday for a month and a half.  I likely won't think too much about the series in a week, but I don't have any complaints.  I've mentioned before that "WandaVision" spoiled me into expecting more depth and "Falcon and the Winter Soldier" gave me a somewhat stock comic book affair: some fun character bits, some conflict resolution, some awesome action set-pieces, little/no deep character development.  That's not a bad thing, and I do love comic book movies obviously, but I feel like a six episode 45ish mins per series could've delved more into deeper character development.  It was fun, and I can't wait to see Captain America again (and I _LOVED_ his new look) but for me it felt mostly disposable.

I am, on the other hand incredibly excited for "Loki" and the time shenanigans its promising us...

* I can't help but wonder that just as it feels obvious Marvel is setting up the 'New Avengers' w/their Disney+ line of series, I think the also might be setting up the MCU version of the 'Thunderbolts.'  In which case Zemo was a member in the comics

** I think that 1) Val will almost certainly play into BLACK WIDOW, and that she originally had a cameo/debut in that film. 2) I have a feeling Marvel is setting Val up to be the anti-Nick Fury: a sort of villain master spy boss type - perhaps putting together the Thunderbolts...
Title: Re: Falcon and the Winter Soldier ***Spoilers***
Post by: chocolateshake on April 23, 2021, 06:24:39 PM
I didn't want to be a downer and post this last night but I didn't like the finale. Not at all. I don't hate it but normally I watch each episode a couple of times. I have no desire to watch the finale again.

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Title: Re: Falcon and the Winter Soldier ***Spoilers***
Post by: perc2100 on April 23, 2021, 07:14:53 PM
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I didn't want to be a downer and post this last night but I didn't like the finale. Not at all. I don't hate it but normally I watch each episode a couple of times. I have no desire to watch the finale again.

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Yeah I agree with all of this; I'll re-watch the ep tomorrow morning with my 6 year old (I had been watching both WandaVision & FatWS Friday am or today when he was at karate class, and then with him and often my wife Sat. am) and I'll be curious to see if my 'forgiving' vibe carries through a second viewing or just enflames my issues.

Talking to some friends of mine, a couple of pro TV critics + a few 'civilians' like me, and one of the critics said he thinks Marvel/Disney radically retooled the Flag Smashers plot line.  He said he suspected their story had something to do with a
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That _could_ explain the paper-thin plot line of the Flag Smashers at least (though obviously not all of the suspect character motivations and arcs of the others mentioned above).
Title: Re: Falcon and the Winter Soldier ***Spoilers***
Post by: Chris on April 25, 2021, 03:22:58 PM
Yeah, I didn't feel that they stuck the landing.  Before I thought it would be better with just the USAgent storyline, but the finale was too rushed with the Flagsmashers and him and removing them felt more like a necessity.

Didn't ruin the good parts, but wasn't very satisfying.

Also was hoping that USAgent wouldn't trickle into the other movies/shows.  Just don't like him.

Still not thrilled that Cap retired, but of anyone I can live with Falcon getting the shield/mantle.  The new suit looked good.  For the comic readers, I recommend Stuart Immonen's recent work.  Not sure if he designed the costume, but he drew it well.  He's been around for forever, but for some reason it took me forever to find his work.

Love what the movies do with wings between Falcon and Vulture.  They think of innovative uses and they just look cool.
Title: Re: Falcon and the Winter Soldier ***Spoilers***
Post by: chocolateshake on May 03, 2021, 12:20:30 AM
The Assembled episode that talks about the show is out.
Title: Re: Falcon and the Winter Soldier ***Spoilers***
Post by: perc2100 on May 03, 2021, 11:01:11 AM
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The Assembled episode that talks about the show is out.
Yeah mostly good stuff IMO.  I appreciate them talking a bit about how they had to "pivot" (a word I've kinda come to loathe during the last 14 months) after COVID-19 hit in order to shut-down and then start back up.  Would've liked to have heard more details on how the shut-down impacted story but that's not the type of thing to come out of these pseudo-commercials (the Brass Monkey nightclub monkey skull set dressing, however, was absolutely cool to hear about!)
Title: Re: Falcon and the Winter Soldier ***Spoilers***
Post by: Chris on May 03, 2021, 11:11:57 AM
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Yeah mostly good stuff IMO.  I appreciate them talking a bit about how they had to "pivot" (a word I've kinda come to loathe during the last 14 months) after COVID-19 hit in order to shut-down and then start back up.  Would've liked to have heard more details on how the shut-down impacted story but that's not the type of thing to come out of these pseudo-commercials (the Brass Monkey nightclub monkey skull set dressing, however, was absolutely cool to hear about!)

Agree.  Pivot, optics, proactive, etc.  Buzz words of the year get annoying after a while.