Author Topic: Falcon and the Winter Soldier ***Spoilers***  (Read 3361 times)

Offline chocolateshake

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Re: Falcon and the Winter Soldier ***Spoilers***
« Reply #60 on: April 23, 2021, 01:24:44 AM »
They did change the name of the show.

Offline Michael M

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Re: Falcon and the Winter Soldier ***Spoilers***
« Reply #61 on: April 23, 2021, 01:34:32 PM »
Loved how
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really brought the story to a close.

And man
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look freakin' awesome or what!?!?

*Great* show!

Marvel hit it outta the park again w/series #2.  Here's to Loki up next!
"you're makin' - me - beat - up - grass!!"

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Re: Falcon and the Winter Soldier ***Spoilers***
« Reply #62 on: Today at 05:21:02 AM »

Offline perc2100

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Re: Falcon and the Winter Soldier ***Spoilers***
« Reply #62 on: April 23, 2021, 06:00:39 PM »
OK, I hate to be a contrarian, and I promise it's not _that_ bad, but I thought the finale/series was OK: I wasn't great and it wasn't bad.  The finale had a bunch of character beats that didn't felt earned, and when one thinks too much the Flag Smashers' story arc, it's difficult to come up with much other than "huh."  I mean, they're painted with such a broad brush I feel like we don't _really_ know what their motivation is, what their eventual/actual plan was, etc.  The series vaguely mentions that they want to “return to how life was during the Blip” but fails to explain what that really means; the show doesn't delve into what the 'boarder situation' really means to the Flag Smashers.  That plot line (sub-plot?) doesn't make much sense.
And there's not much explanation regarding what's up with John Walker, why he suddenly changed (kind of?  He at least changed enough to be cool fighting side-by-side Bucky & Sam to take down the Flag Smashers), and it feels Marvel delivered him a pseudo-redemption arc that didn't exactly feel earned.  I have an understanding of the comic character, and get that his arc has been 'complicated' anyway (as are most comic character story arcs when the characters hang around long enough); but it felt like he went from legit pure-villain material at the end of e5, into stepping in to help save the day out of know where in e6.  And then we have Sharon Carter.  The Power Broker revelation that only makes sense in an incredibly broad manner: as in "she was pooped-on by her government and now it's payback time" kind of broad comic book villainy that works better in the funny pages than the big screen/TV.

And our heroes seemed to have a fairly muddled character arc, as well.  Bucky felt like he grew, and worked on his growth but Sam's felt a bit wonkier to me.  It's like the creatives were setting up some deeper dive into the African American experience only to have him jump back into the hero fray because the plot dictated that big action 3rd act finale.

But, of course, the real question for me is always "does the movie/show/book/whatever art work well enough for me to not get too bogged down in its flaws?"  In this case, I think the answer is "Yes."  I can't not see Sam in his awesome suit and smile like a dopey kid.  I can't not chuckle at Bucky's one-liners.  I was happy to spend some more time with Zemo, and I'm glad he's still kicking around the MCU waiting to be sprung to populate another adventure*.  I can't see Julia Louis-Dreyfus as Valentina Allegra de Fontaine (I'm just gonna call her "Val," consequences be damned) and not smile from ear-to-ear that we get her in the MCU and I sincerely hope to see more of her*

This show had some good action set-pieces, and made me at least chuckle a few times per episode.  I certainly liked it better than some MCU films (I'm looking at your THOR THE DARK WORLD), and it was a fun way to spend every Friday for a month and a half.  I likely won't think too much about the series in a week, but I don't have any complaints.  I've mentioned before that "WandaVision" spoiled me into expecting more depth and "Falcon and the Winter Soldier" gave me a somewhat stock comic book affair: some fun character bits, some conflict resolution, some awesome action set-pieces, little/no deep character development.  That's not a bad thing, and I do love comic book movies obviously, but I feel like a six episode 45ish mins per series could've delved more into deeper character development.  It was fun, and I can't wait to see Captain America again (and I _LOVED_ his new look) but for me it felt mostly disposable.

I am, on the other hand incredibly excited for "Loki" and the time shenanigans its promising us...

* I can't help but wonder that just as it feels obvious Marvel is setting up the 'New Avengers' w/their Disney+ line of series, I think the also might be setting up the MCU version of the 'Thunderbolts.'  In which case Zemo was a member in the comics

** I think that 1) Val will almost certainly play into BLACK WIDOW, and that she originally had a cameo/debut in that film. 2) I have a feeling Marvel is setting Val up to be the anti-Nick Fury: a sort of villain master spy boss type - perhaps putting together the Thunderbolts...

Offline chocolateshake

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Re: Falcon and the Winter Soldier ***Spoilers***
« Reply #63 on: April 23, 2021, 06:24:39 PM »
I didn't want to be a downer and post this last night but I didn't like the finale. Not at all. I don't hate it but normally I watch each episode a couple of times. I have no desire to watch the finale again.

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Offline perc2100

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Re: Falcon and the Winter Soldier ***Spoilers***
« Reply #64 on: April 23, 2021, 07:14:53 PM »
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I didn't want to be a downer and post this last night but I didn't like the finale. Not at all. I don't hate it but normally I watch each episode a couple of times. I have no desire to watch the finale again.

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Yeah I agree with all of this; I'll re-watch the ep tomorrow morning with my 6 year old (I had been watching both WandaVision & FatWS Friday am or today when he was at karate class, and then with him and often my wife Sat. am) and I'll be curious to see if my 'forgiving' vibe carries through a second viewing or just enflames my issues.

Talking to some friends of mine, a couple of pro TV critics + a few 'civilians' like me, and one of the critics said he thinks Marvel/Disney radically retooled the Flag Smashers plot line.  He said he suspected their story had something to do with a
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That _could_ explain the paper-thin plot line of the Flag Smashers at least (though obviously not all of the suspect character motivations and arcs of the others mentioned above).

Offline Chris

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Re: Falcon and the Winter Soldier ***Spoilers***
« Reply #65 on: April 25, 2021, 03:22:58 PM »
Yeah, I didn't feel that they stuck the landing.  Before I thought it would be better with just the USAgent storyline, but the finale was too rushed with the Flagsmashers and him and removing them felt more like a necessity.

Didn't ruin the good parts, but wasn't very satisfying.

Also was hoping that USAgent wouldn't trickle into the other movies/shows.  Just don't like him.

Still not thrilled that Cap retired, but of anyone I can live with Falcon getting the shield/mantle.  The new suit looked good.  For the comic readers, I recommend Stuart Immonen's recent work.  Not sure if he designed the costume, but he drew it well.  He's been around for forever, but for some reason it took me forever to find his work.

Love what the movies do with wings between Falcon and Vulture.  They think of innovative uses and they just look cool.

Offline chocolateshake

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Re: Falcon and the Winter Soldier ***Spoilers***
« Reply #66 on: May 03, 2021, 12:20:30 AM »
The Assembled episode that talks about the show is out.

Offline perc2100

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Re: Falcon and the Winter Soldier ***Spoilers***
« Reply #67 on: May 03, 2021, 11:01:11 AM »
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The Assembled episode that talks about the show is out.
Yeah mostly good stuff IMO.  I appreciate them talking a bit about how they had to "pivot" (a word I've kinda come to loathe during the last 14 months) after COVID-19 hit in order to shut-down and then start back up.  Would've liked to have heard more details on how the shut-down impacted story but that's not the type of thing to come out of these pseudo-commercials (the Brass Monkey nightclub monkey skull set dressing, however, was absolutely cool to hear about!)

Offline Chris

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Re: Falcon and the Winter Soldier ***Spoilers***
« Reply #68 on: May 03, 2021, 11:11:57 AM »
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Yeah mostly good stuff IMO.  I appreciate them talking a bit about how they had to "pivot" (a word I've kinda come to loathe during the last 14 months) after COVID-19 hit in order to shut-down and then start back up.  Would've liked to have heard more details on how the shut-down impacted story but that's not the type of thing to come out of these pseudo-commercials (the Brass Monkey nightclub monkey skull set dressing, however, was absolutely cool to hear about!)

Agree.  Pivot, optics, proactive, etc.  Buzz words of the year get annoying after a while.