Author Topic: Reports & check ins in the age of Covid  (Read 127621 times)

Offline semigeekgirl

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Re: Reports & check ins in the age of Covid
« Reply #1185 on: July 16, 2021, 10:36:43 AM »
Agreed. People who never intended to get vaccinated didn't change their minds just so they could stop wearing masks. They mostly just stopped wearing masks anyway and were glad nobody yelled at them anymore.

Offline chocolateshake

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Re: Reports & check ins in the age of Covid
« Reply #1186 on: July 16, 2021, 11:36:38 AM »
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Agreed. People who never intended to get vaccinated didn't change their minds just so they could stop wearing masks. They mostly just stopped wearing masks anyway and were glad nobody yelled at them anymore.

Agreed.  I never thought dropping the mask mandate was a good idea.  The WHO didn't think so either.  It was a political gambit.  The big carrot.  Give people the option of either wearing a mask or getting vaccinated.  I don't know why they thought it would have any impact on people who openly ignored mask mandates already.  Now we've spent that mandate for no real gain.  It was hard enough to get 50-75% of the population to wear masks to begin with, there's no way we are going back to that at a national level.  To their credit, some cities never dropped the mask mandate.

At first I was surprised that so many people still wore masks after the mandate ended.  That's gone now.  I was in Walmart the other day and including myself, there were only 3 of us wearing masks.

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Re: Reports & check ins in the age of Covid
« Reply #1187 on: Today at 01:58:15 AM »

Offline perc2100

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Re: Reports & check ins in the age of Covid
« Reply #1187 on: July 16, 2021, 12:38:26 PM »
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At first I was surprised that so many people still wore masks after the mandate ended.  That's gone now.  I was in Walmart the other day and including myself, there were only 3 of us wearing masks.
We have an almost seven year old, who obviously is unable to get the vaccine at this time.  My wife and I have been extremely cautious over the last 16+ months, and I hate the thought that so many idiots are putting him in danger by not getting vaccinated.  Luckily he hasn't not worn a mask outside since mid-March, and we still mostly wear masks in public.  While the rest of us (wife, myself, 19 year old oldest kid) have been vaccinated for months and are almost certainly statistically not going to get seriously sick if we catch the Delta variant, we're incredibly anxious/worried at the thought of him getting sick.  As an instrumental music teacher, I'm almost livid at the thought that right when it felt like our state/county was getting this thing under control and we could look forward to a fall that was relatively normal in our world, things are continuing to worsen which will likely bring similar guidances that have crippled music programs.

Of course, in principal I'm livid that at this point USA is in a willful dangerous pandemic: one that could easily be contained now, but so many morons are bucking science for no good reason.  Pre-teen kids, immunosuppressive folks, and others who CANNOT get the vaccine are of course placed in higher danger because of Karen who thinks there is a microchip in the vaccine due to the video she saw from a rando on YouTube (that she tweets about from her iPhone or Android that is absolutely tracking everything she does already)  >:( >:( >:(

Offline Mario Wario

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Re: Reports & check ins in the age of Covid
« Reply #1188 on: July 16, 2021, 01:43:16 PM »
True. So, my question is this: how would you get more people vaccinated without going to the extremes to do so? We can all complain all we want, but what is the best course of action to take? Lastly, here’s a counterargument to what LA County is doing to get the brain juices flowing: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

———-


Speaking of the WHO and something different: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

“WHO chief says it was ‘premature’ to rule out COVID lab leak“

« Last Edit: July 16, 2021, 01:52:51 PM by Mario Wario »
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Offline perc2100

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Re: Reports & check ins in the age of Covid
« Reply #1189 on: July 16, 2021, 05:55:41 PM »
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True. So, my question is this: how would you get more people vaccinated without going to the extremes to do so? We can all complain all we want, but what is the best course of action to take?
France's president announced proof of vaccination would be a requirement for restaurants, airports, and other public events and over 1 million folks (about 1.5%) signed up for vaccination appointments by the end of the day.
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That article from 3 days ago

This is something I was hoping more businesses and organizations (MLB, NBA, MLS, etc) would take but no body has the guts to do.  Given how radically selfish roughly 40% of the population seems to be, I think the government or whomever NEED to be a bit strict here.  To be honest, I'm not patronizing most businesses still because I have a kid too young to be able to get a vaccination & I don't want to risk it.  I've been to some baseball games (though 2/3 were in a vaccinated-only section before CA opened up completely), but that's pretty much it.  I'm not eating in restaurants or going to bars; still not going to movie theaters; or most other businesses (and the ones I've gone to, like Target once for some groceries, I wore a mask).  I think we've seen over the last 16 months we have willfully selfish and willfully ignorant people prolonging this: this is now a willful deadly pandemic that a large swath of the population refuses to control because.... cult-like tendencies, I guess.  Attending ANY public business is more of a privilege than a right, and there can be any number of requirements necessary for customers: this is likely the only thing/hope we have at this point given the stupidity of tens of millions

Offline omraged9

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Re: Reports & check ins in the age of Covid
« Reply #1190 on: July 16, 2021, 10:23:32 PM »
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True. So, my question is this: how would you get more people vaccinated without going to the extremes to do so? We can all complain all we want, but what is the best course of action to take? Lastly, here’s a counterargument to what LA County is doing to get the brain juices flowing: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

———-

Speaking of the WHO and something different: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

“WHO chief says it was ‘premature’ to rule out COVID lab leak“

To get more people vaccinated, it might be something that's partially up to us as individuals. There are going to be some extremist anti-vax people out there and you probably can't reach them. But there's going to be some people on the fence who aren't sure and they're not fully educated about the importance of vaccination (the idea that it's not just to protect them but also to protect their parents and other family members). You can have personal discussions with them about it. Or if you belong to an online community, you can discuss it there. I find that most people are generally open-minded enough if they're not super political or religious, they're willing to hear you out.

As for the Covid lab leak theory, I was doing some reading on that a month ago and it's fascinating stuff. I was one of those who didn't believe in the lab leak theory but I'm more open to the theory now. I think last year when it was super politicized, people who were the "believers" really believed that China released covid intentionally as a biological weapon, not that it was a lab leak accident. Now that there's more information out there and China is still refusing to cooperate with the investigation into the origins of covid, the lab leak theory is a lot more plausible. I was following some twitter threads by a Chinese Canadian scientist who discussed the idea of "gain of function" research, how dangerous it can be if lab researchers are too brash or aren't careful enough in following protective protocols.

Offline chocolateshake

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Re: Reports & check ins in the age of Covid
« Reply #1191 on: July 17, 2021, 12:16:27 AM »
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True. So, my question is this: how would you get more people vaccinated without going to the extremes to do so? We can all complain all we want, but what is the best course of action to take? Lastly, here’s a counterargument to what LA County is doing to get the brain juices flowing: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Why is switching to a stick an "extreme"?  Living in society has rules.  Violating those rules have consequences.  Why should masking and vaccinations be any different?  Both in terms of masking and vaccinations, we have been treating the unwilling with kid gloves.  I think it's time for that to stop.  It hasn't worked.  Even though there is precedent in the US for the government requiring everyone to be vaccinated.  Personally, I would shy away from that.  At an employer-employee level, it's common.  There are all types of jobs where people are required to be vaccinated.  At the last place I worked during flu season, everyone had two choices.  Get vaccinated or wear a mask.  I guess they had a third choice of finding somewhere else to work.  In schools, that's how polio and measles were defeated.  Every student was required to be vaccinated.  Unfortunately we have pulled back from that and now measles is making a come back.

Other countries have dealt with it to good effect by using vaccine passports.  Unless you are vaccinated or otherwise have immunity you can't stay at hotels, you can't shop at stores, you can't go to the movies, you can't eat at restaurants.  In some places it's mandated by the government, in others it's being required by individual businesses.  It's worked.

As for masking, there are laws people abide by everyday that have the same level of personal freedom taken away.  Some people don't like to wear clothes.  If they walked around naked in public in much of the US, I don't think it would go over very well.  People are required to wear seat belts in most areas.  There are helmet laws for people riding bikes and motorcycles.  Living in any society is about having your personal freedom governed.  Why is masking any different?

The largest union of nurses in the US is openly calling for the CDC to reinstate universal mask wearing.

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Every country so far that thought they had reached herd immunity, declared victory and dropped precautions has regretted it when their cases spiked again.  I don't know why we thought we would be any different.  Those countries have acknowledged their mistake, reversed course and reinstated precautions.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2021, 12:24:39 AM by chocolateshake »

Offline perc2100

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Re: Reports & check ins in the age of Covid
« Reply #1192 on: July 17, 2021, 11:51:27 AM »
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Why is switching to a stick an "extreme"?  Living in society has rules.  Violating those rules have consequences.  Why should masking and vaccinations be any different?  Both in terms of masking and vaccinations, we have been treating the unwilling with kid gloves.  I think it's time for that to stop.  It hasn't worked.  Even though there is precedent in the US for the government requiring everyone to be vaccinated.  Personally, I would shy away from that.  At an employer-employee level, it's common.  There are all types of jobs where people are required to be vaccinated.  At the last place I worked during flu season, everyone had two choices.  Get vaccinated or wear a mask.  I guess they had a third choice of finding somewhere else to work.  In schools, that's how polio and measles were defeated.  Every student was required to be vaccinated.  Unfortunately we have pulled back from that and now measles is making a come back.

Other countries have dealt with it to good effect by using vaccine passports.  Unless you are vaccinated or otherwise have immunity you can't stay at hotels, you can't shop at stores, you can't go to the movies, you can't eat at restaurants.  In some places it's mandated by the government, in others it's being required by individual businesses.  It's worked.

As for masking, there are laws people abide by everyday that have the same level of personal freedom taken away.  Some people don't like to wear clothes.  If they walked around naked in public in much of the US, I don't think it would go over very well.  People are required to wear seat belts in most areas.  There are helmet laws for people riding bikes and motorcycles.  Living in any society is about having your personal freedom governed.  Why is masking any different?

The largest union of nurses in the US is openly calling for the CDC to reinstate universal mask wearing.

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Every country so far that thought they had reached herd immunity, declared victory and dropped precautions has regretted it when their cases spiked again.  I don't know why we thought we would be any different.  Those countries have acknowledged their mistake, reversed course and reinstated precautions.
The problem with masking mandates, IMO, is that people didn't wear them anyway.  We already had the LA Sheriff this am say he wouldn't enforce the mandate because he didn't believe in the science of it.  Mandates are only as strong as their enforcement, and in the mask mandates, many municipalities in my neck of the woods in SoCA did not enforce them and left them up to the minimum wage employees to deal with the insufferable Karens.

I'm 100% with you that we need to take the kid gloves off & the vaccination passports are the only logical step.  Want to go to a restaurant?  Vaccination passport required.  Want to go see the Dodgers?  Vaccination passport.  Want to enter an airport?  Vaccination passport.  Foo Fighters concert at the Forum (which was postponed because a member of the FF team has COVID BTW)?  Vaccination passport.  Like, literally make everything fun that people want to do require a Vaccination Passport. 

Of course, I have no idea the legalities of that.  Unfortunately, I suspect COVID will follow the all-too-familiar course of American preventable tragedies: massive gun violence, opioid OD's, homelessness, climate crisis, etc.  It'll just become normalized until it spins wildly out of control and then...I actually dunno what the end game is with this one.  We've failed as a species caring about our planet, I don't see us doing much better with COVID

Offline chocolateshake

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Re: Reports & check ins in the age of Covid
« Reply #1193 on: July 18, 2021, 11:27:51 AM »
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The problem with masking mandates, IMO, is that people didn't wear them anyway.  We already had the LA Sheriff this am say he wouldn't enforce the mandate because he didn't believe in the science of it.  Mandates are only as strong as their enforcement, and in the mask mandates, many municipalities in my neck of the woods in SoCA did not enforce them and left them up to the minimum wage employees to deal with the insufferable Karens.
with COVID

Yes, many anti-maskers ignored the mask mandate.  But many of them did wear masks because of the mask mandate.  I've heard enough anti-maskers complaining about it in stores while wearing masks.  The wiling did.  The CDC prematurely ending the mask mandate gave everyone the message that covid is over.  Stop wearing those masks.  The number of cases going back up instead of continuing down clearly testify to the result of that move.

In the US, law enforcement is at the discretion of each officer.  In the end it's up to each officer to decide what is illegal or not and who to enforce a law against.  The police are under no obligation to enforce any law.  Even if they are present while someone is being murdered, they are under no requirement to help.  Ironically, in most of the US, the public are legally required to help the police when asked.  California repealed the penal code requiring citizens to help the police a couple of years ago.  If an officer has a superior, then that person can make them enforce a law.  In the case of a elected sheriff, they have no superior.  Other than limiting their funding, there is nothing that be done other than voting them out of office at the next election.

There are other tools that the government can use to enforce laws that don't involve law enforcement.  How the FAA enforces drone laws is a prime example of that.  The FAA doesn't need law enforcement to enforce it's rules.  After a few people got $100,000 fines for just flying a drone without checking all the boxes, most people got the message.

Mask mandates work.  They send a message.  They set an expectation.  Many people do abide by them.  They give cover for businesses to require masks.  Without that, many business will not do so.  Even while it was still the law, many businesses in California gave up that requirement when the CDC dropped the mask mandate.

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I'm 100% with you that we need to take the kid gloves off & the vaccination passports are the only logical step.  Want to go to a restaurant?  Vaccination passport required.  Want to go see the Dodgers?  Vaccination passport.  Want to enter an airport?  Vaccination passport.  Foo Fighters concert at the Forum (which was postponed because a member of the FF team has COVID BTW)?  Vaccination passport.  Like, literally make everything fun that people want to do require a Vaccination Passport. 

Of course, I have no idea the legalities of that.  Unfortunately, I suspect COVID will follow the all-too-familiar course of American preventable tragedies: massive gun violence, opioid OD's, homelessness, climate crisis, etc.  It'll just become normalized until it spins wildly out of control and then...I actually dunno what the end game is with this one.  We've failed as a species caring about our planet, I don't see us doing much better with COVID

A private business can refuse service to anyone.  Unless required by law, they can make anything a requirement for entry.  They can make you wear a shirt, shoes or a mask.  Failure to do so and pushing their way through like a lot of entitled anti-maskers do is then trespassing.  Which is something that people can be arrested for.  But that brings us back to whether the police will do their job. 

Offline Mario Wario

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Re: Reports & check ins in the age of Covid
« Reply #1194 on: July 18, 2021, 08:36:55 PM »
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Why is switching to a stick an "extreme"?  Living in society has rules.  Violating those rules have consequences.  Why should masking and vaccinations be any different?  Both in terms of masking and vaccinations, we have been treating the unwilling with kid gloves.  I think it's time for that to stop.  It hasn't worked.  Even though there is precedent in the US for the government requiring everyone to be vaccinated.  Personally, I would shy away from that.  At an employer-employee level, it's common.  There are all types of jobs where people are required to be vaccinated.  At the last place I worked during flu season, everyone had two choices.  Get vaccinated or wear a mask.  I guess they had a third choice of finding somewhere else to work.  In schools, that's how polio and measles were defeated.  Every student was required to be vaccinated.  Unfortunately we have pulled back from that and now measles is making a come back.

Other countries have dealt with it to good effect by using vaccine passports.  Unless you are vaccinated or otherwise have immunity you can't stay at hotels, you can't shop at stores, you can't go to the movies, you can't eat at restaurants.  In some places it's mandated by the government, in others it's being required by individual businesses.  It's worked.

As for masking, there are laws people abide by everyday that have the same level of personal freedom taken away.  Some people don't like to wear clothes.  If they walked around naked in public in much of the US, I don't think it would go over very well.  People are required to wear seat belts in most areas.  There are helmet laws for people riding bikes and motorcycles.  Living in any society is about having your personal freedom governed.  Why is masking any different?

The largest union of nurses in the US is openly calling for the CDC to reinstate universal mask wearing.

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Every country so far that thought they had reached herd immunity, declared victory and dropped precautions has regretted it when their cases spiked again.  I don't know why we thought we would be any different.  Those countries have acknowledged their mistake, reversed course and reinstated precautions.
“Why is switching to a stick an ‘extreme’?  Living in society has rules.  Violating those rules have consequences.  Why should masking and vaccinations be any different?  Both in terms of masking and vaccinations, we have been treating the unwilling with kid gloves.  I think it's time for that to stop.  It hasn't worked.” The problem is, the more you go hardcore in whatever you are trying to enforce, the more likely people will become more defiant. Think like having a teenager who will rebel the more you try to discipline them. Overall, we humans just love breaking rules and will do whatever it takes to be defiant. It is not just in the US. Perhaps sharing more stories of those who were against vaccines 24/7 to later regret not getting vaccinated before getting COVID-19 might help the campaign in getting more vaccinated? Try to make it hit home better?

“Unless you are vaccinated or otherwise have immunity you can't stay at hotels, you can't shop at stores, you can't go to the movies, you can't eat at restaurants.  In some places it's mandated by the government, in others it's being required by individual businesses.  It's worked.“ I think this part fits well in the ‘extreme’ topic. What you listed there probably wouldn’t do well in court, and the unvaccinated wouldn’t be able to get groceries which means another new problem and chaos, too. Remember, what works well in one place doesn’t mean it will in others. Same with vaccine passports. Also, about other countries, Spain's Constitutional Court ruled a few days ago that last year’s COVID-19 home confinement was unconstitutional. This opens the door to challenge other mandates over there.

“Living in any society is about having your personal freedom governed. Why is masking any different?“
I think the inconsistency on mask use when the pandemic got going probably didn’t help. Even now it is still not good. Also, some probably think masking is a way Big Brother controls you. Plus, pandemic fatigue.

“Those countries have acknowledged their mistake, reversed course and reinstated precautions.“
We wouldn’t be humans if we didn’t. But if needed, is forcing people to stay indoors, shut businesses down, and hurting an economy once another variant is spreading everywhere (regardless of vaccines and treatments) the only way to fight the virus? Lastly, on the nurses union topic, I think no one is shocked they are asking the CDC to do that. I expect the CDC to again recommend putting on a mask when indoors for all soon.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2021, 09:23:57 PM by Mario Wario »
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Offline chocolateshake

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Re: Reports & check ins in the age of Covid
« Reply #1195 on: July 18, 2021, 10:28:04 PM »
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The problem is, the more you go hardcore in whatever you are trying to enforce, the more likely people will become more defiant. Think like having a teenager who will rebel the more you try to discipline them. Overall, we humans just love breaking rules and will do whatever it takes to be defiant. It is not just in the US.

That can be said of any law.  I have a car that can go 140MPH, why shouldn't I have the personal freedom to drive 140MPH?  Are traffic laws extreme?  Should we drop all traffic laws and just ask people to be good?  Why are mask laws any different?

I found it ironic that so many people that always professed how they are pro law and order all of a sudden weren't willing to follow the law.  I guess they meant they are pro law and order as long as the law is not applied to them.

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Perhaps sharing more stories of those who were against vaccines 24/7 to later regret not getting vaccinated before getting COVID-19 might help the campaign in getting more vaccinated? Try to make it hit home better?

I agree, that would be a better way to go.  Unfortunately that's been happening for the last year and half with masking, social distancing, stay at home and vaccinations.  So many people that were anti all that stuff and then caught covid testified that they should have taken it seriously.  It hasn't worked.

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I think this part fits well in the ‘extreme’ topic. What you listed there probably wouldn’t do well in court

Then all laws are "extreme".

It would do fine in the courts.  Except for certain things mandated by law, private businesses can refuse service to anyone.  Contrary to how some people feel, seeing a movie or eating in a restaurant is not an entitlement guaranteed by the Constitution.  Businesses can have all sorts of requirements to enter like the common shirts and shoes policy.  A business can deny you service just because they don't feel like serving you.  This was famously decided recently by the Supreme Court.

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Requiring vaccinations for service should not be a problem.  What wouldn't do well in court are things like the executive order in Florida that has banned private businesses from requiring vaccinations for service.  In most likelihood, that governor has exceeded this authority.

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Offline alyssa

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Re: Reports & check ins in the age of Covid
« Reply #1196 on: July 22, 2021, 06:59:42 AM »
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Hi Forum! Checking in after a long time away. Went to SDCC 2012-2019. Taking baby steps back into SDCC world - like many of you it's been a helluva pandemic. I was laid off April 2020, haven't been working since.  A few of you may remember my son Will, he attended SDCC with Kelly and I in 2015. Last Nov. he was diagnosed with Stage IV kidney cancer.  They removed a large bump from the back of his head which had broken through his skull - it was a cancer tumor which contained kidney cells. Now has a plate as the back of his head but the little bit of hair he has covers it.  Large tumor on kidney, tumors in liver and spine. He is 28yrs old and is not expected to live past this year but we all keep hoping he has more time. Thank you to all the Forum members who were so kind to him when you met him. SDCC was an amazing experience for him.
I'm trying to reconnect with others but I'm living in such a dark vortex it's hard to remember how to be with people so I'll just say Hello and I guess I'm hoping to rejoin the community...Awkwardly, which is how I do most things. 


first You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login I am devastated to hear this news. And yes, it helps to reconnect with friends. I've been going through some family issues and have not been as attentive as i should to this thread.

i think i'm going to prune this line off into another thread so we can give it the attention it deserves.

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« Last Edit: July 22, 2021, 07:20:49 AM by alyssa »
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Offline perc2100

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Re: Reports & check ins in the age of Covid
« Reply #1197 on: July 22, 2021, 07:39:50 AM »
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That can be said of any law.  I have a car that can go 140MPH, why shouldn't I have the personal freedom to drive 140MPH?  Are traffic laws extreme?  Should we drop all traffic laws and just ask people to be good?  Why are mask laws any different?
Seriously; mandatory seatbelts to me always felt like a repressive mandate against my right to chose what _I_ want to do in a way that impacts only _me_.  Same with helmet laws for motorcyclists.

And yet it's been the law of the land since I was in elementary school, and I put my seatbelt on every time I get in the car w/out thinking about it.  When I rode a motorcycle I _always_ wore a helmet (and a full one that covered/protected by face).  Why?  Partially because I'm mature enough to know what's good to do; partially because the fines for getting pulled over w/out a seatbelt = an expensive fine (or at least, more expensive than I care to pay).

Actual laws that are enforced are great deterrents for most.  "Extreme" measures for those stupid enough to deny science and endanger the rest of society would likely be a deterrent for many of those folks as well; the alternative is they're screwing the rest of us by not letting us return to a sense of normal.  I'm tired of catering to the stubborn a-hole variants of society who have shown they have no interests in wearing a mask nor vaccinating: I'm all for turning the screw on them and bringing many of them up to speed with the rest of intelligent society.

Offline perc2100

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Re: Reports & check ins in the age of Covid
« Reply #1198 on: July 22, 2021, 10:36:11 AM »
Reports are coming in about a memo the NFL sent its member teams regarding consequences of the 2021 season that IMO are the type of substantial rules that should be implemented everywhere possible:
* a team that has to postpone a game due to unvaccinated COVID infection of their players/coaches, but cannot reschedule during the regular 18-week season, will FORFEIT the game, and be credited with an official loss
* any team that has to forfeit/cancel a match due to team/player COVID outbreak will be responsible for financial losses and subject to potential discipline from the commissioner
* from the memo: "we do not anticipate adding a '19th week' to accommodate games the cannot be rescheduled w/in the current 18 weeks of the regular season."  Essentially, play on time, or don't play and reap the consequences
* some harsh verbiage: "every club is obligated under the Constitution and Bylaws (of the league) to have its team ready to play at the scheduled time and place.  A failure to do so is deemed conduct detrimental.  There is no right to postpone a game."
Conversely (also in the memo):
* vaccinated players who test positive and are asymptomatic can return to duty after 2 negative tests 24 hours apart; unvaccinated will be subject to mandatory 10-day isolation (which could be missing 2 games)

Now if only the NFL would hold similar responsibilities to its attendees (vaccinated only allowed admittance)...

Offline Chris

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Re: Reports & check ins in the age of Covid
« Reply #1199 on: July 22, 2021, 11:06:14 AM »
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Seriously; mandatory seatbelts to me always felt like a repressive mandate against my right to chose what _I_ want to do in a way that impacts only _me_.  Same with helmet laws for motorcyclists.

And yet it's been the law of the land since I was in elementary school, and I put my seatbelt on every time I get in the car w/out thinking about it.  When I rode a motorcycle I _always_ wore a helmet (and a full one that covered/protected by face).  Why?  Partially because I'm mature enough to know what's good to do; partially because the fines for getting pulled over w/out a seatbelt = an expensive fine (or at least, more expensive than I care to pay).

Actual laws that are enforced are great deterrents for most.  "Extreme" measures for those stupid enough to deny science and endanger the rest of society would likely be a deterrent for many of those folks as well; the alternative is they're screwing the rest of us by not letting us return to a sense of normal.  I'm tired of catering to the stubborn a-hole variants of society who have shown they have no interests in wearing a mask nor vaccinating: I'm all for turning the screw on them and bringing many of them up to speed with the rest of intelligent society.

I was thinking about seatbelts the other day and how back in the 80s a lot of people didn't wear them.  Now it's just habit and feels weird not to wear one.