Author Topic: Reports & check ins in the age of Covid  (Read 127850 times)

Offline chocolateshake

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Re: Reports & check ins in the age of Covid
« Reply #225 on: April 29, 2020, 11:33:58 AM »
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It doesn't matter that they both have a spike protein. Their spike proteins don't bind to the same types of receptors (ACE-2) the way same way. Did you just ignore all the articles I posted about the genetic differences between the two SARs viruses and other coronaviruses?

You don't understand.  If the spike proteins are dealt with, then there's nothing to bind to any receptor.  It doesn't matter how many different types of locks there are if there are no keys.

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That's probably what you don't understand. You have a rigid idea of what science (and medicine) is. Science is ever changing, ever evolving. Science starts with hypotheses and observations and then it's tested with trials and studies. Sometimes the theories are right, sometimes they're wrong. In special times like these, you're not going to have the ideal clinical trials to rely on, especially with a disease like covid that we're still don't fully understand. Unfortunately for the severe cases, if they're close to dying, both the doctors and the patients going to be desperate to try something to save them. I'm just glad that the doctors and researchers out there are trying their best to find proper treatment for the disease and I hope they can find these treatments sooner than later.

I understand science.  It does depend on accepting and rejecting a hypothesis based on the best data available.  It's not about rejecting valid data because it disagrees with an anecdote you are emotionally invested in.  That's not science. 

Offline omraged9

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Re: Reports & check ins in the age of Covid
« Reply #226 on: April 29, 2020, 07:46:36 PM »
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You don't understand.  If the spike proteins are dealt with, then there's nothing to bind to any receptor.  It doesn't matter how many different types of locks there are if there are no keys.

But you're assuming the spike protein is exactly the same in all the coronaviruses. The fact that the covid virus binds to ACE-2 receptors more so compared to original SARs virus suggests there may be some key differences. I mean I would love if they can create a vaccine that can help us prevent future coronavirus infections. I'm sure they're going to explore that more in the future so we'll see.

Quote
I understand science.  It does depend on accepting and rejecting a hypothesis based on the best data available.  It's not about rejecting valid data because it disagrees with an anecdote you are emotionally invested in.  That's not science.

This is where we disagree. It seems like you feel the end results is science. I see science as the whole process. It starts with observations and anecdotal information that leads theories and hypotheses. These theories get tested in clinical trials/studies, both ideal and non-ideal. These scientists and doctors who test them will have their biases, it's human nature. I mean if they didn't believe in what they're testing, they wouldn't bother doing it. I agree with you about not rejecting valid data if it contradicts with what you're emotionally invested in but that's my whole point about this covid disease. It's a brand new disease that doesn't have much valid data. I don't believe we can assume previously known info about original SARs virus is the same for covid virus. We're still trying to figure out why it's so unpredictable, why it can kill people of any age, even those with have no underlying conditions. It doesn't seem to be killing people the same way as the original virus.

Btw, what do you think of Dr. Fauci recommending Remdesivir as the standard of care now?

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Re: Reports & check ins in the age of Covid
« Reply #227 on: Today at 07:11:46 PM »

Offline chocolateshake

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Re: Reports & check ins in the age of Covid
« Reply #227 on: April 30, 2020, 12:24:31 AM »
I'm going to squish your post down since my answer covers the first and last parts of your post.

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But you're assuming the spike protein is exactly the same in all the coronaviruses.

(a bunch of deleted stuff)

Btw, what do you think of Dr. Fauci recommending Remdesivir as the standard of care now?

I'm not assuming.  If you would care to read the links I post, you'll find this in one of them.  It's from the people that have shown their SARS vaccine works just as well on covid as SARS in vitro.

"The SARS and COVID-19 viruses are genetically very similar, and their spike proteins and structures also bear similarities that suggest that the SARS vaccine potentially could be used to prevent COVID-19.”

There was a reason that Remdesivir was given hope unlike chloroquine by researchers.  For the last 7 years people have been looking into Remdesivir as a treatment for corona viruses.  Not just one of them.  Not just SARS.  Not just MERS.  But as a generic treatment for all of them.  Since all corona viruses are similar.  Have you ever wondered why the are called corona viruses?  It's the spike as in spike protein.  What does the dude that did that 7 years of research call covid?  SARS 2.

I think we need to wait for the results of the clinical trial to come out.  As per the person running the trial, they are still crunching the numbers.  The results weren't due for a month.  I do wonder why Fauci leaked them all of a sudden today.

There was another Remdesivir trial result released today.  The trial that Gilead itself did.  It didn't get as much press.  The big take away from that was that taking it for 10 days was no better than 5 days. They did also note the shorten recovery period.  Whether someone recovered or survived didn't seem significantly improved.

These leaked results from the NIH study are at odds with the leaked results from the Chinese study.  There's the mega-trial going on in Europe.  They are doing the right thing and not leaking.  Clinical trials are like Fight Club.  You don't talk about it until it's done.  They should release the results from that in a month or two.

If Remdesivir works it would be awesome.  I would note the order of Fauci's statements.  First and foremost he's happy about it as a proof of concept.  That any drug has any effect at all.  Second, he only says it works to shorten recovery.  Recovery and mortality have not been determined to be significantly improved.

And that's the takeaway from today.  I don't think anyone thinks Remdesivir is the answer.  We won't be ending social distancing because of it.  It's not the end, it's the beginning.  It's hope that something can work.  It's hope that something else might work better.

Offline alyssa

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Re: Reports & check ins in the age of Covid
« Reply #228 on: April 30, 2020, 08:28:31 AM »
Thanks for your post chocolateshake. It puts the progress of the treatment into needed perspective.

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Offline Transmute Jun

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Re: Reports & check ins in the age of Covid
« Reply #229 on: April 30, 2020, 12:50:28 PM »
For those who think the Disney parks will never open again, I give you.... Disney face masks!

No, I'm not kidding. And some of them are very cute.

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Offline janray

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Re: Reports & check ins in the age of Covid
« Reply #230 on: April 30, 2020, 12:54:20 PM »
I ordered mine earlier this morning, Marvel pack!

Offline Transmute Jun

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Re: Reports & check ins in the age of Covid
« Reply #231 on: April 30, 2020, 12:57:33 PM »
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I ordered mine earlier this morning, Marvel pack!

Most of that pack is meh, but the Hulk face is so cute! I wish you could mix and match designs from the different packs. Imagine Hulk face, Baby Yoda, Mike Wazowski and Stitch all in one pack...

Offline janray

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Re: Reports & check ins in the age of Covid
« Reply #232 on: April 30, 2020, 01:25:39 PM »
Hulk face definitely the best of the group but a nice mix for the days you're not feeling as aggressive :D

Offline puppy

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Re: Reports & check ins in the age of Covid
« Reply #233 on: April 30, 2020, 04:03:59 PM »
I want one!



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Offline puppy

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Re: Reports & check ins in the age of Covid
« Reply #234 on: April 30, 2020, 04:08:23 PM »
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For those who think the Disney parks will never open again, I give you.... Disney face masks!

No, I'm not kidding. And some of them are very cute.

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I like Baby Yoda. Too bad there aren't Star Wars faces like Mickey (i.e., nose & chin). I would kill for Mandalorian or Baby Yoda.

Offline NCDS

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Re: Reports & check ins in the age of Covid
« Reply #235 on: April 30, 2020, 06:51:24 PM »
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Most of that pack is meh, but the Hulk face is so cute! I wish you could mix and match designs from the different packs. Imagine Hulk face, Baby Yoda, Mike Wazowski and Stitch all in one pack...

I was thinking the same thing!  I settled on Star Wars because I liked more in that pack.
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Offline omraged9

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Re: Reports & check ins in the age of Covid
« Reply #236 on: April 30, 2020, 11:06:32 PM »
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If Remdesivir works it would be awesome.  I would note the order of Fauci's statements.  First and foremost he's happy about it as a proof of concept.  That any drug has any effect at all.  Second, he only says it works to shorten recovery.  Recovery and mortality have not been determined to be significantly improved.

And that's the takeaway from today.  I don't think anyone thinks Remdesivir is the answer.  We won't be ending social distancing because of it.  It's not the end, it's the beginning.  It's hope that something can work.  It's hope that something else might work better.

I agree with that actually. I don't feel Remdesivir is going to change much right now. We still need to understand the disease process better and find better medications that can treat it. I still have hopes that there's a preexisting drug out there that might work on other stages of the disease and it's possible that a combo of drugs will help with the survival rates.

Offline mark

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Re: Reports & check ins in the age of Covid
« Reply #237 on: May 06, 2020, 06:34:23 PM »
Work had an all-hands today, first one where they have discussed starting steps for people eventually coming back to work. Thought people might find it interesting.


Offline chocolateshake

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Re: Reports & check ins in the age of Covid
« Reply #238 on: May 18, 2020, 12:27:49 PM »
The big news today is that Moderna released a teaser about it's vaccine's phase 1 clinical trial.  It produces antibodies in all participants.  That's great news.  It produces neutralizing antibodies, the ones we need for a vaccine to work, in 8 participants.  That's confusing news.  Did they only test 8 people or did only 8 of the people in the trial produce them?  If they only tested 8 people, why didn't they test them all?  If only 8 people of all participants tested showed neutralizing antibodies, then that's not good.

Overall, the response was similar to people that recovered from covid.  It's still unclear if that's enough for immunity.  There's the recent case of the 14 people on the Roosevelt.  They had covid, they recovered, they tested negative twice and now they are symptomatic again testing positive again.

The other issue is will people take the vaccine for covid?  It's not looking great.  The anti-vaxxers have been hard at work these last few months.  It's worked.  Polling shows that a third of people will refuse a covid vaccine.  Only half of the population get's a flu vaccine for example.

If some people have a problem with traditional vaccines, I would think they would have a bigger problem with this vaccine.  This is a new approach to vaccinations.  Instead of injecting a dead or weaken virus to elicit an immune response, this is a mRNA vaccine.  The vaccine is a bit of mRNA to have your own cells to make the spike protein to stimulate your immune system.  Some people won't even eat GMO food.  I'm not sure how happy they'll be to have some mRNA injected into them.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2020, 01:11:43 PM by chocolateshake »

Offline alyssa

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Re: Reports & check ins in the age of Covid
« Reply #239 on: May 18, 2020, 11:09:40 PM »
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If some people have a problem with traditional vaccines, I would think they would have a bigger problem with this vaccine.  This is a new approach to vaccinations.  Instead of injecting a dead or weaken virus to elicit an immune response, this is a mRNA vaccine.  The vaccine is a bit of mRNA to have your own cells to make the spike protein to stimulate your immune system.  Some people won't even eat GMO food.  I'm not sure how happy they'll be to have some mRNA injected into them.

it's my understanding that a bunch of other first world countries use 'live' vaccines & they're safe.
I will be lining up for the vaccine like it's hall h on a saturday ;)
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