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Comic-Con International => CCI General Discussion => Topic started by: Transmute Jun on September 23, 2012, 09:59:33 AM

Title: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on September 23, 2012, 09:59:33 AM
Passes another starting hurdle. This is from the Hilton Bayfront's Twitter on Friday:

Quote
John Portman & Assoc ‏@JPortmanAssoc
Port approves Environmental Impact Report — major step in expansion of Convention Center & JPA’s addition to @HiltonBayfront!
 Retweeted by HiltonSDBayfront

So it sounds like there will be an expansion to the Hilton Bayfront hotel, in addition to an expansion to the convention center?
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: ceddyced on September 23, 2012, 10:26:13 AM
Hope the park on the roof stays in the plans.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: alyssa on September 23, 2012, 11:28:01 AM
 there's this too;
http://www.sandiego6.com/news/local/San-Diego-Convention-Center-170440246.html

By Mike Wille
Story Published: Sep 19, 2012 at 7:39 PM PDT
Story Updated: Sep 19, 2012 at 7:39 PM PDT
SAN DIEGO (CNS) - An environmental impact report on the expansion of the San Diego Convention Center and an associated hotel project was approved unanimously Wednesday by the commissioners of the Port of San Diego.
The $520 million project will give San Diego the largest contiguous meeting space on the West Coast when it's completed.
Tourism experts believe San Diego is losing out on 25 major trade shows annually, because competing cities can offer more room. The loss works out to $121 million annually in additional hotel room night income, according to a consultant's study.
The project will give the convention center 2.75 million square feet of floor space.
 
"Expanding the Convention Center will help to protect our economy, as well as attract new businesses and visitors, support a flourishing travel and tourism industry, and stimulate job growth in our region," said Ruben Barrales, president and CEO of the San Diego Regional Chamber of Commerce. "Today's approvals are an important step in the right direction."
 
The bulk of the expansion will be paid for by increasing hotel room taxes.
 
Downtown hotels, which will benefit the most from the expansion, will add a 3 percent levy on room bills. Hotels around Mission Valley and Mission Bay will charge an extra 2 percent and outlying hotels will add 1 percent.
 
City officials hope construction will start by the end of this year, or early next year.
Title: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: EnglishmanInSanDiego on September 23, 2012, 02:56:03 PM
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City officials hope construction will start by the end of this year, or early next year.

Oh, please. For the love of all that is holy, please!

You let The Man get you down, The Man wins - I say, Damn The Man.
"I can't lie to you about your chances, but... you have my sympathies."
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Khaaaaaaanh!!! on September 23, 2012, 05:41:17 PM
Wonder how long it would take and if it would cause a temporary move or delay...
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: rando on September 23, 2012, 06:18:02 PM
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Wonder how long it would take and if it would cause a temporary move or delay...

According to this article (a little less optimistic than the previous article posted) by the local San Diego paper (the Union-Tribune) they anticipate the expansion to be open in 2016, maybe 2017.  I think CCI has agreed to stay in San Diego until 2015?  And where would SDCC go if the San Diego Convention Center is not available in a Moscone/WonderCon type situation?  Perhaps Anaheim?

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2012/sep/19/convention-center-project-takes-a-major-step-forwa/
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Sprzout on September 23, 2012, 08:24:30 PM
They didn't have a problem when they expanded the first time - the Con went on. I think there may be some minor problems with routing around construction zones, but it'll happen in SD.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Khaaaaaaanh!!! on September 23, 2012, 09:05:43 PM
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They didn't have a problem when they expanded the first time - the Con went on. I think there may be some minor problems with routing around construction zones, but it'll happen in SD.

Camping out in a construction zone.  Bring your hard hats!
Title: Re: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Bert Su on September 24, 2012, 11:21:50 PM
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And where would SDCC go if the San Diego Convention Center is not available in a Moscone/WonderCon type situation?  Perhaps Anaheim?
Most probably but they will have to close off part of the exhibit hall to hold panels that would normally go in Hall H.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: The Gossamer on October 02, 2012, 12:10:22 PM

Update link 2nd Oct 2019.

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2012/oct/01/convention-center-moves-forward/
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Chris on October 02, 2012, 12:31:48 PM
I always figured that if they did the expansion, that the architectural style would stay the same and they would just make the convention center longer.  The difference in style between the old and new threw me when I looked at the picture.

Don't have a preference either way-- as long as there is more floor space. 
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: The Gossamer on October 02, 2012, 12:41:11 PM
Yeah that proposed expansion picture is sort of boring looking but I agree that the space is much more important.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Chris on October 02, 2012, 12:53:44 PM
The picture also looks like they might built it upwards a bit.  If they included several levels, that could REALLY increase space.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: rando on October 02, 2012, 01:30:18 PM
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I always figured that if they did the expansion, that the architectural style would stay the same and they would just make the convention center longer.  The difference in style between the old and new threw me when I looked at the picture.

Don't have a preference either way-- as long as there is more floor space.

That picture looks so different from the renderings I've seen on the project...maybe it's the angle?  This site has some images and floor plans, might be more comprehensive.

http://www.conventioncenterexpansion.com/Default.aspx?tabid=129
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: The Gossamer on October 02, 2012, 01:34:53 PM
These early designs could change over the course of planning so I would think the pictures are just concepts not yet completely approved.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: rando on October 02, 2012, 02:25:17 PM
Yah, absolutely!  I may be cynical but I think the rooftop park may not make it...I believe with projects like these parks "sell" to the public and I wouldn't rule out a "bait and switch" scenario (wow I am so skeptical!).   :D  Anyways on these images from the same site there appears to be a white tower at the end of Hall H (maybe where the triangle park is now?).  I wonder if this is the Bayfront Hilton addition I've heard about?  If so, it's a coup for Hilton!

http://www.conventioncenterexpansion.com/Default.aspx?tabid=98

Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on October 02, 2012, 05:11:33 PM
I'm just glad this is proceeding forward!
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: alyssa on October 29, 2012, 12:43:32 PM
http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2012/oct/29/comic-con-to-stay-in-san-diego-through-2016/

SDCC to stay in SD till 2016
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: kappolo on October 29, 2012, 02:25:57 PM
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SDCC to stay in SD till 2016
Good news!
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on October 29, 2012, 04:22:55 PM
It's only a 1 year extension. I'm guessing they did that because it allows the city one more year to get the convention center expansion done.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: alyssa on October 29, 2012, 08:30:56 PM
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It's only a 1 year extension. I'm guessing they did that because it allows the city one more year to get the convention center expansion done.

yeah, that is my thinking too
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: rando on October 29, 2012, 09:59:02 PM
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It's only a 1 year extension. I'm guessing they did that because it allows the city one more year to get the convention center expansion done.

It might be only a year more but I think the timing of the announcement is an encouraging sign.  The convention center expansion process is at a crucial phase and even a one year extension agreement I think signals the commitment of both CCI and the city of San Diego to keep the Con here long term.  2016 is an optimistic projection for the expansion opening so I think adding that extra year at this point (a year earlier than the last time they extended in 2010 for 2013-2015) shows me that the powers that be all want to be here in San Diego in case all goes to plan.  It was a pleasant surprise for me!  :D
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Beowulf on October 29, 2012, 11:41:15 PM
I for one hope they nix the roof-top park from the plans! I don't really see it as working towards the goal of more "convention-floor" space. It's really more of a designer dream than anything else, IMO. There is plenty of park space around the convention center (i.e. batmobile parking lot)

Another thing I would like to see is a cancellation of the Summer Pops concert that was happening at the same time as the con this year. What a waste of valuable space during a time when space is so critical for the convention to remain. The Summer Pops happens on weekends over a (roughly) 2-month+ period, so putting it off for one weekend to hold the city's largest event seems like a no-brainer.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on October 30, 2012, 07:11:10 AM
Perhaps I am mistaken, but it was my impression that the lawn area in front of the Hilton (where the Batmobiles were this year) is part of the space that will be used by the expansion... so there will be no more 'park' area there. I believe that is why they want the 'rooftop park': to make up for taking away the current 'green' areas.

If I am in error, please feel free to correct my understanding.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Beowulf on October 30, 2012, 08:27:14 PM
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Perhaps I am mistaken, but it was my impression that the lawn area in front of the Hilton (where the Batmobiles were this year) is part of the space that will be used by the expansion... so there will be no more 'park' area there. I believe that is why they want the 'rooftop park': to make up for taking away the current 'green' areas.

If I am in error, please feel free to correct my understanding.

I stand corrected! :-X After looking at the expansion plans again, it definitely does appear that the area will now become part of the expanded center. Sorry, it had been a while since I looked at the expansion plans.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Mario_c on November 25, 2012, 07:34:26 PM
The plans for the expansion might get delayed and reworked because new data suggests that the whole harbor area could face major flooding in the next 38-88 years due to climate change.

 :-\

http://www.kpbs.org/news/2012/nov/15/flood-maps-raise-questions-about-san-diego-convent/
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on November 26, 2012, 07:43:19 AM
Very interesting! I know I've heard many predictions about the rise of sea level in the SF Bay Area as well.

I guess that expansion will have to be built on top of 20 foot pylons! ;)
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Sprzout on January 06, 2013, 08:42:50 PM
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I for one hope they nix the roof-top park from the plans! I don't really see it as working towards the goal of more "convention-floor" space. It's really more of a designer dream than anything else, IMO. There is plenty of park space around the convention center (i.e. batmobile parking lot)

Another thing I would like to see is a cancellation of the Summer Pops concert that was happening at the same time as the con this year. What a waste of valuable space during a time when space is so critical for the convention to remain. The Summer Pops happens on weekends over a (roughly) 2-month+ period, so putting it off for one weekend to hold the city's largest event seems like a no-brainer.

In previous years, they have done Comic-Con themed pops concerts. I want to say that in 2012 (or maybe 2011?) they did a movie concert, where they had things like the theme song from Superman, Also Sprach Zarathustra (which most people will recognize as the opening theme to 2001: A Space Odyssey)...there was also a video game concert that they had there, where they played symphonics from Legend of Zelda, Super Mario Bros, and more. I don't see a reason to nix it...
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on March 05, 2013, 04:53:23 PM
A ruling is expected this week on whether or not the additional hotel tax (to fund the expansion) is 'legal'. If it is found to be legal, construction may proceed (unless the people protesting it make an appeal).

Sigh...  The legal process in this country is interminable....

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2013/mar/05/convention-center-expansion-ruling-thursday/ (http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2013/mar/05/convention-center-expansion-ruling-thursday/)
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Vapors on March 11, 2013, 01:41:20 PM
Just read an update on this.

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2013/mar/11/judge-affirms-convention-center-tax/

Although its likely an appeal will come soon that could delay any ground breaking.  Still, as a reminder, Comic Con has a contract to stay with the city until 2016 so even a slight delay would probably not deter SDCC from staying.  I'm hopeful that this will be resolved and we can confirm Comic Con will stay for a long time in San Diego.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on March 11, 2013, 01:49:11 PM
I'm glad it was approved, but agree with you about the likely appeal. It drives me nuts in this country how people can't just accept a judgement and move on. There are appeals and more appeals and more appeals... sheesh! Even if I don't agree with the ruling, often I just want it to be over, KWIM?
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on March 14, 2013, 07:14:32 AM
It looks like the appeal is already underway... with a Superior Court judge making a decision shortly?

http://fox5sandiego.com/2013/03/13/judge-to-review-arguments-in-convention-center-suit/#axzz2NWVtZffn (http://fox5sandiego.com/2013/03/13/judge-to-review-arguments-in-convention-center-suit/#axzz2NWVtZffn)
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on April 28, 2013, 04:32:00 PM
I came across an interesting article today, talking about how the way this expansion has been delayed has hurt the convention center.

http://www.swrnn.com/2013/04/26/san-diego-convention-center-losing-business-over-stalled-expansion-plans/ (http://www.swrnn.com/2013/04/26/san-diego-convention-center-losing-business-over-stalled-expansion-plans/)
Title: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: EnglishmanInSanDiego on April 29, 2013, 01:30:44 AM
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I came across an interesting article today, talking about how the way this expansion has been delayed has hurt the convention center.

http://www.swrnn.com/2013/04/26/san-diego-convention-center-losing-business-over-stalled-expansion-plans/ (http://www.swrnn.com/2013/04/26/san-diego-convention-center-losing-business-over-stalled-expansion-plans/)

I am staggered by efforts of some corners of the San Diego business and economic community to slow, if not halt, the expansion of the Convention Centre - forget just Comic-Con, the sheer revenue brought in throughout the year by that building is immense. They say SDCC is being courted by other major cities? Let's see how upset they are by having all these nerds take over their city when all that money just up sticks and buggers off...


You let The Man get you down, The Man wins - I say, Damn The Man.
"I can't lie to you about your chances, but... you have my sympathies."
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: alyssa on April 29, 2013, 06:31:51 AM
i think the thing the naysayers forget is how much other business is brought in by the convention center.  big conventions that are less over whelming then sdcc can be a big money producer to the city.

short sighted.
Title: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Yzrfan on April 29, 2013, 06:33:08 AM
Damned if the do and damned if they don't.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on April 29, 2013, 06:38:06 AM
I agree. I don't really understand why there are people against the expansion. The San Diegans aren't paying for it (it's being paid for by hotel taxes) and they will still have a public green space (albeit on the top if the building). The only 'legitimate' complaint was one I saw some time ago regarding unionized workers... I don't evn recall what that was, since I don't think construction companies have even been hired yet.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Chris Hagish on April 29, 2013, 08:42:07 PM
The only legit complaint i saw was a report that stated the projected ocean lvls would put the ocean up into the convention center expansion in the next 20 years or something close to that. so the harbor commission was not suppose to give it the go ahead when they did...now people are using that as a reason to b***h.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Sprzout on April 30, 2013, 10:43:08 PM
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I agree. I don't really understand why there are people against the expansion. The San Diegans aren't paying for it (it's being paid for by hotel taxes) and they will still have a public green space (albeit on the top if the building). The only 'legitimate' complaint was one I saw some time ago regarding unionized workers... I don't evn recall what that was, since I don't think construction companies have even been hired yet.

Jun - every union wants a piece of the pie around here. There were people who stood for MONTHS outside of the local Henry's grocery market because they didn't have a union like some of the other grocery chains in San Diego.

I've also seen signs outside of the San Diego Volkswagen dealership because they used non-union labor to build a new facility...lots of "Shame On You!" signs. The unions would voice that wholeheartedly at Comic-Con if they don't use union labor for this expansion, because hey, it's national media coverage!

At any rate - let's hope this construction goes through without a hitch. I really want Comic-Con to stay around for a while longer, and I want to keep attending it for as long as they have it here in San Diego.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on May 01, 2013, 08:32:45 AM
If people want to do that kind of thing with their free time, let them. Free speech and all that, right? I'd love to see union people protesting at the Hall H line alongside the rligious extremists!  >:D
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Chris Hagish on May 02, 2013, 09:08:54 PM
Only if i get to make fun of them just as much.  Both are nuts that feel you must share their views or else.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: hikanteki on May 03, 2013, 09:56:57 AM
It's the California way these days, and it makes me sad.  Whenever anyone tries to build or add onto anything it seems everyone within a ~50 mile radius tries to block it or sue it to death.  High Speed Rail is another very good example.
Title: Expansion Lawsuit
Post by: Pyramid on July 26, 2013, 09:44:33 PM
http://www.10news.com/news/lawsuit-threatens-san-diego-convention-center-expansion-plan-070413

Money talks and talk of the expansion allows the biggest convention in the country to stay in San Diego.  I really hope nothing comes of this and that the expansion happens quickly for all involved, including the attendees
Title: Re: Expansion Lawsuit
Post by: Stitch101 on July 26, 2013, 10:15:01 PM
That didn't go anywhere. The article was posted July 4th, the court date was suppose to be July 11th. The end of that article said it all... They were trying to settle out of court, probably because they didn't have a case but knew the city doesn't want the project delayed any more and would be willing to pay them off just to avoid a long legal battle that would eat away at the expansion timeline. That's my own little conspiracy theory at least.

The newest article about the expansion that I found was posted July 18 and was about Mayor Bob Filner's annoucement of his support of the convention center expansion. He had been back and forth on the issue and never have a forthcoming answer on the topic before the announcement. His main reasoning behind finally backing the expansion? Comic Con! He said the city can't afford to lose it.

According to the article, the only hurdle the expansion has left is being approved by the Coastal Commision. That should happen sometime in October. I've heard that if its approved, construction could begin immediately and would most likely be completely done before SDCC 2016.
Title: Re: Expansion Lawsuit
Post by: Pyramid on July 26, 2013, 10:50:13 PM
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That didn't go anywhere. The article was posted July 4th, the court date was suppose to be July 11th. The end of that article said it all... They were trying to settle out of court, probably because they didn't have a case but knew the city doesn't want the project delayed any more and would be willing to pay them off just to avoid a long legal battle that would eat away at the expansion timeline. That's my own little conspiracy theory at least.

The newest article about the expansion that I found was posted July 18 and was about Mayor Bob Filner's annoucement of his support of the convention center expansion. He had been back and forth on the issue and never have a forthcoming answer on the topic before the announcement. His main reasoning behind finally backing the expansion? Comic Con! He said the city can't afford to lose it.

According to the article, the only hurdle the expansion has left is being approved by the Coastal Commision. That should happen sometime in October. I've heard that if its approved, construction could begin immediately and would most likely be completely done before SDCC 2016.

So was there a pre-trial settlement?  I know Port Officials were waiting for Filner's support before sending their response to the Coastal Commission but I haven't heard anything about the settlement.  I like your conspiracy theory, nothing goes together like money and politics.
Title: Re: Expansion Lawsuit
Post by: Stitch101 on July 26, 2013, 11:14:52 PM
I honestly can't find any info about the lawsuit aside from that one article. The only update on the expansion is the one I wrote about above about how all they are waiting for before beginning construction is the approval of the Coastal Commission. That article was posted weeks after the article about the lawsuit, but never once mentioned it (the lawsuit) or called it a possible road bump for the project, so I'm guessing it probably settled out of court. Depending of the terms of the settlement, we very well could never be told exactly what happened, which could explain why the story seemed to just fade away after the initial report.

I'm really hoping the response sent to the Coastal Commission alleviates any remaining doubts about the project and they vote to go forward. If its going to happen, it needs to start, soon!
Title: Re: Expansion Lawsuit
Post by: Pyramid on July 26, 2013, 11:37:54 PM
I agree, the sooner it starts the better.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Bert Su on July 27, 2013, 04:05:26 PM
Seconded
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on July 29, 2013, 07:01:14 AM
I'm just scared of what it will be like attending the Con with construction going on!  :o
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: DaveG on July 29, 2013, 08:51:24 AM
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I'm just scared of what it will be like attending the Con with construction going on!  :o

I was wondering the same thing.  It seems like we could go through a couple of tough years with even less space than we have now due to areas "under construction".
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Stitch101 on July 29, 2013, 09:00:17 AM
Well, according to the plans, the expansion is going to be in the back side of the convention center between the harbor and the current convention center were the parking lot is, up to the grassy area that WB had the outdoor kids area this year. So it really won't be taking much space that's used of the convention, and most of the area was already off limits to guests anyways. I'm just wondering how it will effect access to the loading docks.

The biggest thing I'm curious about is how they will utilize the new area. If the expansion keeps CCI in San Diego, it has the opportunity to solve a lot of problems that have been around. They could create a second "Hall H" to spread out the larger movie panels and help with crowding and people camping out in the hall all day too see one panel. With more room, we could get an expanded Artist Alley, which I would love. They could space the exhibit hall out more. Ect.

It also could turn into more space=same problems or worse. My biggest worry is that, assuming the expansion will up the capacity limit of the convention, that they make the convention larger, but also drastically expand the ticket sales because of it. While yes, that's a good thing for people that want to go, it could cause the crowding issue to remain or get worse. I guess the extra space could mean extra panels and that could help crowding though.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: YouThinkMeMad on July 29, 2013, 09:03:44 AM
I would hope that the 1st year of/after expansion they would keep ticket sale the same, just to see how the new layout and plans work. Maybe they could slowly increase year by year. With new space comes new issues and the last thing they want is even more pissed off people because of line issues, not knowing where things are, and all that jazz.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Alvetica on July 29, 2013, 12:23:31 PM
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Well, according to the plans, the expansion is going to be in the back side of the convention center between the harbor and the current convention center were the parking lot is, up to the grassy area that WB had the outdoor kids area this year. So it really won't be taking much space that's used of the convention, and most of the area was already off limits to guests anyways. I'm just wondering how it will effect access to the loading docks.

The biggest thing I'm curious about is how they will utilize the new area. If the expansion keeps CCI in San Diego, it has the opportunity to solve a lot of problems that have been around. They could create a second "Hall H" to spread out the larger movie panels and help with crowding and people camping out in the hall all day too see one panel. With more room, we could get an expanded Artist Alley, which I would love. They could space the exhibit hall out more. Ect.

It also could turn into more space=same problems or worse. My biggest worry is that, assuming the expansion will up the capacity limit of the convention, that they make the convention larger, but also drastically expand the ticket sales because of it. While yes, that's a good thing for people that want to go, it could cause the crowding issue to remain or get worse. I guess the extra space could mean extra panels and that could help crowding though.
http://www.conventioncenterexpansion.com/Design/Floorplans.aspx
(https://www.friendsofcc.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FDkcIgZ2l.png&hash=ff9e21885b15670550e32fa5e37d0d3f2d6e5b44) (http://imgur.com/DkcIgZ2)
It looks like they build a new Convention Way and move the loading docks there.

I hope they stick with this mock up.  That new ballroom will be bigger than Hall H (80k sqft vs 65k sqft in H)
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Vapors on August 01, 2013, 07:29:30 PM
One thing I wonder about, if (and when) this project gets off the ground is where will people try to lineup for Hall H/General lines during the construction?  From what I can tell, they intend to completely use the grass area next to Hall H and redo the back area of the convention.  As we all know, people will line up the night before and get there before the sun rises.  I can't imagine the nightmare scenario for Comic Con when they put the shovel in the ground and begin construction on that grassy area.

Also, just read this article.  Not part of the convention expansion per se, but it does affect potential parking spaces in the coming years (and may play host to other off site events as well). 

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2013/aug/01/petco-ballpark-village-residential-jmi-lennar/

The second half of this decade looks like we will see a radically different downtown San Diego and thus Comic Con experience.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Pyramid on August 01, 2013, 09:20:17 PM
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One thing I wonder about, if (and when) this project gets off the ground is where will people try to lineup for Hall H/General lines during the construction?  From what I can tell, they intend to completely use the grass area next to Hall H and redo the back area of the convention.  As we all know, people will line up the night before and get there before the sun rises.  I can't imagine the nightmare scenario for Comic Con when they put the shovel in the ground and begin construction on that grassy area.

Also, just read this article.  Not part of the convention expansion per se, but it does affect potential parking spaces in the coming years (and may play host to other off site events as well). 

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2013/aug/01/petco-ballpark-village-residential-jmi-lennar/

The second half of this decade looks like we will see a radically different downtown San Diego and thus Comic Con experience.

They will probably create a cue out of construction cones and give hard hats to everyone in line.  Marvel will premiere their Wrecking Crew movie during this time.  ;)  With hotel rooms being so expensive I think I'll just buy a place at the Ballpark Village and call it good.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on August 01, 2013, 10:03:15 PM
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With hotel rooms being so expensive I think I'll just buy a place at the Ballpark Village and call it good.

LOL, I actually thought about that for a few minutes when I first saw the post!
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Laminas92675 on August 02, 2013, 05:03:29 PM
With hotels hard to get and so freakin expensive I'm glad I live 15 minutes from the convention center.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Pyramid on August 02, 2013, 10:01:41 PM
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With hotels hard to get and so freakin expensive I'm glad I live 15 minutes from the convention center.

People are now renting out their garages and backyards to Comic Con attendees.  Wish we lived in San Diego, preferably La Jolla.  ;)
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Sprzout on August 19, 2013, 01:06:43 AM
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With hotels hard to get and so freakin expensive I'm glad I live 15 minutes from the convention center.

I'm about 25-30 min. from the convention center, but I'd never consider a hotel down there - too insane!
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Jureld on August 19, 2013, 07:32:14 AM
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I would hope that the 1st year of/after expansion they would keep ticket sale the same, just to see how the new layout and plans work. Maybe they could slowly increase year by year. With new space comes new issues and the last thing they want is even more pissed off people because of line issues, not knowing where things are, and all that jazz.

I wouldn't hold my breath on them keeping ticket sales the same or slowly increasing the amount.  The convention center will just have spent millions and millions of dollars expanding and they're going to want to make that up as quickly as possible.

I'd bet money that if the expansion does go through, the amount of tickets will increase proportionally by the amount of space added.  Right now there are about 130,000 tickets sold (this is just tickets, not counting vendors, staff...etc) and 615,000 sqf of convention center space.  So that's 1 ticket per 4.7 sqf.  If it jumps to say a million square feet the amount of tickets could jump to about 213,000.

Now you're right, they probably wouldn't make that drastic of a jump all at once, but if it were me and I just spent that much cash to expand...you bet there's going to be a large increase in the amount of tickets sold as soon as I can do it.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on August 19, 2013, 08:47:32 AM
They really need to increase ticket prices anyway, and an added fee to fund the expansion is certainly a reasonable thing to pay for.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: SamTurtledove on August 19, 2013, 11:40:44 AM
Pyramid said in the Google + Hangout that ticket prices would go up and this thread quotes many utsd news articles regarding hotel taxes paying for the expansion.  Guess that means, even though TP via CCI can keep hotel prices level until 2015, perhaps the hotel tax will also increase each year during the conventions?
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Pyramid on August 19, 2013, 11:53:00 AM
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I'd bet money that if the expansion does go through, the amount of tickets will increase proportionally by the amount of space added.  Right now there are about 130,000 tickets sold (this is just tickets, not counting vendors, staff...etc) and 615,000 sqf of convention center space.  So that's 1 ticket per 4.7 sqf.  If it jumps to say a million square feet the amount of tickets could jump to about 213,000.

Now you're right, they probably wouldn't make that drastic of a jump all at once, but if it were me and I just spent that much cash to expand...you bet there's going to be a large increase in the amount of tickets sold as soon as I can do it.

213,000 people downtown instead of 130,000 ... crazy.

A portion of badge sales might go to the expansion.  Maybe this is why the badge sales were pushed back.  The CA Coast Commission will be further discussing the expansion in the next couple of months. 

http://www.coastal.ca.gov/meetings/coming.html

I think 4 day badges will go for $200 - $225.  We'll see.
 
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on August 19, 2013, 12:27:32 PM
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I think 4 day badges will go for $200 - $225.  We'll see.

I wouldn't be surprised with that either.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: The Gossamer on August 19, 2013, 12:51:51 PM
Here's an article from the San Diego Reader I read today dated 15th August. The paper was still at work today and I just got around to looking through it.

http://www.sandiegoreader.com/news/2013/aug/14/citylights1-convention-center-glutemshhhem/
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: SamTurtledove on August 19, 2013, 01:41:22 PM
That article references this utsd news http://m.utsandiego.com/news/2013/jul/17/comic-con-rent-discount-convention-center/ and CCI states that their expenses for running the show have increased, even without the rent's lower price.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: SamTurtledove on August 19, 2013, 02:22:32 PM
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I wouldn't hold my breath on them keeping ticket sales the same..

David Glanzer basically stated ticket sales for 2014 would be the same, though just for the amount of people (i.e. they have been capped for last few years), not price! See the first minutes of the video link posted by Alyssa in the Shoutbox and reposted in the "Comic Con Hangout" thread or on YouTube entitled "San Diego Comic-Con G+ Community Hangout On Air: 'The Hangout, Part Two' LIVE By Leonard Sultana."
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Kevin Rutan on August 19, 2013, 04:01:17 PM
No surprise that there isn't an increase in ticket sales for 2014, no expansion to the convention center has begun yet. The real question is how quickly the number of badges increase when the center's capacity actually expands (if it ever does).
Title: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: EnglishmanInSanDiego on September 11, 2013, 11:01:06 PM
The San Diego Convention Center expansion plans have reached a critical juncture. CCI have said themselves, if the Con outgrows San Diego, they will have to consider moving on. If the ground doesn't break on this expansion in the very near future, there might not be a San Diego Comic-Con around anymore when the current agreement expires in a few years time.

This meeting maybe the last hope for this expansion to love forward...

http://blog.visitsandiego.com/2013/09/show-your-support-as-expansion-project-approaches-critical-milestone/

You can fill out an endorsement card, even if you're not from San Diego...

http://www.conventioncenterexpansion.com/Community/showyoursupport.aspx#.UjFWS9e9LCQ


You let The Man get you down, The Man wins - I say, Damn The Man.
"I can't lie to you about your chances, but... you have my sympathies."
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: YouThinkMeMad on September 12, 2013, 05:39:54 AM
I filled out a card!
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on September 12, 2013, 06:44:25 AM
I have to wonder how committed CCI is to moving if this doesn't go through. They have been reluctant in the past to make significant changes. But I do agree that it is best for all if the expansion goes through. Thanks for the info, UKDeeJay.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: FBS on September 12, 2013, 08:09:22 AM
Can San Diego afford to lose CCI is a major question?
Think of the revenue it brings in each year.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Chris on September 12, 2013, 09:02:36 AM
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Can San Diego afford to lose CCI is a major question?
Think of the revenue it brings in each year.

My guess is no.  But I would also guess that that would not stop the city of San Diego from doing something stoopid.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Jim Watari on September 12, 2013, 09:07:51 AM
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My guess is no.  But I would also guess that that would not stop the city of San Diego from doing something stoopid.

LOL , Ahhh local goverment
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: alyssa on September 13, 2013, 04:52:35 AM
CCI has said in a couple of venues ( the talk back panel etc) that there would be a small increase in ticket prices-
my bet is $200 for a 4 day with pv nite.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: kohyuta on September 13, 2013, 10:28:57 AM
I'm ok with an increase in badge prices. If anything, the badge price was the most reasonable part of my SDCC13 trip!

It looks like they could construct the expansion starting from the outside in, leaving the current exhibit space intact for SDCC. Once SDCC is over, they can demolish the existing walls. I can't imagine another venue large enough for Comic-Con, except maybe the Orange County Convention Center in Orlando, or Vegas. No doubt interesting times are ahead!
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Jim Watari on September 19, 2013, 09:15:41 AM

Convention Center expansion video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=o4yrj1NFYKo
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on September 23, 2013, 07:25:57 AM
Update on the status...

http://comicsbeat.com/whats-up-with-that-san-diego-convention-center-expansion-anyway/ (http://comicsbeat.com/whats-up-with-that-san-diego-convention-center-expansion-anyway/)
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Pyramid on September 23, 2013, 04:13:44 PM
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Update on the status...

http://comicsbeat.com/whats-up-with-that-san-diego-convention-center-expansion-anyway/ (http://comicsbeat.com/whats-up-with-that-san-diego-convention-center-expansion-anyway/)

Just look at all that grass for camping!  ;)

Best quote:  "The Chargers easily defeated, as they so often are ..."
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on September 23, 2013, 06:35:16 PM
I believe even the CCI execs have been quoted as saying that the grassy area on top would be a great place for lineups.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Miss Kitty on September 30, 2013, 08:23:26 PM
Convention Center Expansion Proposal Meets Stiff Resistance from California Coastal Commission Staff

Supporters of the proposed expansion of the San Diego Convention Center face a tough challenge on Oct. 10 when the California Coastal Commission - meeting in San Diego - decide whether the project should proceed. The staff of the state agency on Friday recommended denial of the expansion plan, believing that it would result in the loss of waterfront and open space and block views of the bay.

The agency staff gave two critical conditions for overcoming its objections, U-T San Diego reported - building a pedestrian bridge linking the Gaslamp Quarter and the convention center, and trimming the southwest end of the expansion to retain a view down Park Boulevard to the bay.

Despite the staff recommendation, Interim Mayor Todd Gloria said he remains optimistic the commission “will recognize the overwhelming benefits of the current plan.”

“Once the commissioners themselves see the overwhelming benefits of this project, the extraordinary degree of community support and the public benefits to San Diego Bay, I’m optimistic they will support our request,” said Gloria in a statement. “This project enhances public access and safety, builds a new five-acre rooftop park that will be a destination for residents and visitors alike, and will build on the facility’s long history of environmental leadership. We will continue to work to address the issues raised by Coastal Commission staff.”

According to convention center expansion supporters, benefits from the $520 million project include an annual economic impact of $700 million, creation of 7,000 permanent jobs, 3,000 construction jobs and a $13.5 million boos in local tax revenues. By expanding under the current proposal, the facility can attract and retain some of the nation’s largest and most lucrative conventions, many of which insist they need contiguous space for their events, according to Gloria.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on October 01, 2013, 06:35:37 AM
Although I would hate to see the expansion delayed further, I like both of those ideas. A pedestrian bridge between the Convention Center and the Gaslamp would be incredibly helpful. And retaining a view down Park Blvd. would be nice too.

Of course, seeing how long it took to build the other pedestrian bridge... I cringe at the final completion date if this is incorporated.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Miss Kitty on October 03, 2013, 04:10:05 PM
Just a few highlights from the FAQ page on SD Convention Center Expansion website....Curious for October 10!

IS COASTAL COMMISSION APPROVAL THE FINAL HURDLE FOR THIS PROJECT?

No. The next steps:

-    Port to issue Coastal Development Permits
-    City of San Diego to take “Resolution of Validation”
-    San Diego City Council to issue bonds
-    City of San Diego to fund Convention Center design
-    Groundbreaking (goal of late 2014)

IF THE BUILDING INCREASES IN SIZE, WILL THE ECONOMIC BENEFITS AND JOBS THROUGHOUT THE COMMUNITY INCREASE AS WELL?

Yes. According to research and data presented to the MCTF, an expansion of the Convention Center is expected to generate:

-    Increased economic impact of $698 million annually, in addition to the average $1.3 billion the Convention Center already provides our community;

-    Increased tax revenue of $13.5 million annually, in addition to what the Convention Center already generates annually. In FY13 alone, events tied to the building generated $19.2 million in sales and hotel room tax revenues;

-    More than 6,880 new, permanent jobs, in addition to the 12,500 jobs throughout San Diego County already supported by the Convention Center. This estimate of new, full-time jobs does not include thousands of temporary construction jobs.

WHEN IS THE EXPECTED OPENING DATE?

Once the expansion has received all the necessary permits and the funding mechanism is in place, construction on the expansion can begin. The expansion is expected to take approximately 30 months to complete. If all approvals are in place in early 2014, the expansion will be completed by 2018.

WILL THERE BE ANY PUBLIC AND/OR DESTINATION ENHANCEMENTS FOLDED INTO THE PROJECT?

The site is located along San Diego’s signature waterfront so there is ample opportunity to enhance public serving amenities to benefit visitors and locals alike. The concepts include a 5-acre waterfront park; grassy wide open spaces for public art, concerts and other events; retail space; a restaurant; and a pedestrian promenade showcasing views of San Diego Bay, just to name a few. The expansion would also include development of a convention-oriented hotel and a previously planned water taxi.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on October 03, 2013, 04:24:47 PM
Soooo... in other words, we have to live in suspense for another year (until groundbreaking) and even if it goes according to schedule, we have to live with a too-small convention center for another 4 SDCCs. Sigh...
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: ceddyced on October 04, 2013, 06:37:01 AM
I don't think San Diego wants to lose comic con so I'm optimistic this expansion will happen.   O0
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: FBS on October 04, 2013, 12:55:37 PM
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I don't think San Diego wants to lose comic con so I'm optimistic this expansion will happen.   O0

Imagine if they did. One of the biggest mistakes for a city.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: hikanteki on October 04, 2013, 03:14:45 PM
Logic would dictate they approve the expansion, but there are way too many NIMBYs in influential places to guarantee the approval.  NIMBYs will block just about anything having to do with construction as long as they already have what they want. 

The expansion could still happen, but it will be an uphill battle.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: TheTFReview on October 05, 2013, 05:05:33 AM
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I'm just scared of what it will be like attending the Con with construction going on!  :o

I imagine the only real part of the con that will be affected is Hall H. The queue can easily be moved to the giant grass field behind the convention center. I'm sure any demo work would be scheduled around the con.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on October 05, 2013, 07:43:14 AM
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I imagine the only real part of the con that will be affected is Hall H. The queue can easily be moved to the giant grass field behind the convention center. I'm sure any demo work would be scheduled around the con.

I'd hope so. But it would still be a mess and a lot of things might be re-routed. In any case, this seems like a small concern now, since we're worrying that the expansion might not happen at all!
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: The Gossamer on October 09, 2013, 01:13:59 PM
http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2013/oct/08/coastal-commission-convention-center-expansion/
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Jureld on October 09, 2013, 02:44:47 PM
I read that article, but almost as interesting were some of the comments.  One of them had the following link.  Now I don't know how true any of this information is, but someone thinks the entire idea of the expansion is not only bad for the waterfront, but a bad idea overall for numerous other reasons.

http://sandiegoconventioncenterscam.com/
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on October 09, 2013, 04:27:31 PM
That site seems dicey. But it's certainly true that there are people opposed to the expansion.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: YouThinkMeMad on October 10, 2013, 11:12:41 AM
I guess everything can have a conspiracy theory!
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Alvetica on October 10, 2013, 05:23:35 PM
California Coastal Commission just approved the expansion.  What's the next hurdle?
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: YouThinkMeMad on October 10, 2013, 05:25:19 PM
Woohoo!
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: alyssa on October 10, 2013, 05:33:23 PM
Nice!
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on October 10, 2013, 05:39:14 PM
Awesome!

Now when do we know if this is actually the final hurdle or not? ;)
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Six2midnight on October 10, 2013, 06:32:07 PM
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Awesome!

Now when do we know if this is actually the final hurdle or not? ;)

Quoted from this article "The commission’s unanimous vote to override the recommendation of its own staff that the expansion be rejected leaves just one more big hurdle to overcome - a legal challenge to the key element of the project’s financing through a surcharge on hotel room guests that was approved by the city’s hoteliers but not by the broader public. A lower-court ruling in favor of the financing plan is on appeal."

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2013/oct/10/convention-center-coastal-commission/
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: The Gossamer on October 11, 2013, 06:40:26 AM
http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2013/oct/11/tp-a-big-step-forward-for-convention-center/
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: alyssa on October 11, 2013, 07:43:37 AM
anyone have an idea on when we can expect a ruling on the tax issue?
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on October 12, 2013, 09:19:07 AM
David Glanzer responds:

Quote
Official statement from David Glanzer, Director of Marketing and Public Relations at Comic-Con International, regarding the expansion project:

We are happy the California Coastal Commission unanimously approved expansion of the San Diego Convention Center. As we have long said, we feel this expansion will be of benefit to the city in a number of ways including being able to attract larger conventions as well as being able to hold smaller concurrent conventions and events.

It is no secret that Comic-Con would love to stay in San Diego. However there are still some issues to address, including affordable hotel room rates for our attendees, space usage before the expansion officially opens and other economic and logistical concerns.

We are grateful that the city, the San Diego Convention Center and local hoteliers have worked with us in the past and we look forward to working with them now to address these issues so that we can call San Diego home for more years to come.

Source:

http://sdccblog.com/2013/10/ca-costal-committee-okays-san-diego-convention-center-expansion-completion-targeted-for-2018/ (http://sdccblog.com/2013/10/ca-costal-committee-okays-san-diego-convention-center-expansion-completion-targeted-for-2018/)
Title: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: EnglishmanInSanDiego on October 12, 2013, 07:23:54 PM
SDCC G+ Community Hangout On Air with CCI's David Glanzer: Fri 18th October 10am PST / 3pm EST / 6pm GMT

Comic-Con International's David Glanzer (Director of Press / Public Relations) has very generously agreed to a short Hangout On Air, lasting approx 20mins or so, to talk about the San Diego Convention Center Expansion plans.

This brief talk will take on board questions from the Community, as well as this Forum and on YouTube, and will cover how the expansion will affect the Con in the more immediate years, how the plans will change how the Con operates and where Comic-Con can find itself in the future with these expanded facilities at its disposal.

A dedicated Event will be set up in the next day or so, so you can leave questions that you would like to ask David - I'll do my damnedest to squeeze them in.

This is a fantastic opportunity to get the inside track on the future of San Diego Comic-Con and a great indicator of CCI's support of the SDCC G+ Community. I hope you can join us.

https://plus.google.com/u/0/communities/116539620120936633601


You let The Man get you down, The Man wins - I say, Damn The Man.
"I can't lie to you about your chances, but... you have my sympathies."
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: alyssa on October 23, 2013, 11:30:46 AM
Leonard's done it again, he's put together an excellent interview with Steve from the expand the con group.  it's well worth the time!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6orwkNRnnU&feature=youtu.be&noredirect=1
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on October 24, 2013, 06:25:45 AM
This article is mostly 'old news'.

http://www.venuestoday.com/news/detail/sdcc-expansion-clears-coastal-commission-1022 (http://www.venuestoday.com/news/detail/sdcc-expansion-clears-coastal-commission-1022)

But it does include an interesting quote from David Glanzer.

“Believe it or not, when we negotiate we really won’t take the expansion into consideration - we haven’t in our last two turns negotiating because we haven’t known where the project stands, and even with this month’s decision there are still a few hurdles to cross,” said Glanzer. He added that Comic-Con International is based in San Diego and would ideally like to continue at the facility if logistical concerns like space and financial concerns of too-high hotel rates can be mitigated.

The company also operates WonderCon at Anaheim Convention Center and Alternative Press Expo at Concourse Exhibition Center in San Francisco, so they know “it’s possible to do shows outside of San Diego.”


So there's actually an official statement that they could possibly move from San Diego. Or at least are threatening to.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: aodmisery on October 26, 2013, 10:58:49 AM
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Leonard's done it again, he's put together an excellent interview with Steve from the expand the con group.  it's well worth the time!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6orwkNRnnU&feature=youtu.be&noredirect=1

is there a transcript of the whole video somewhere?
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on November 27, 2013, 10:09:29 AM
Apparently there's *another* lawsuit. Ugh.

http://www.comicconguide.com/2013/11/new-convention-center-lawsuit.html (http://www.comicconguide.com/2013/11/new-convention-center-lawsuit.html)
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Pyramid on November 28, 2013, 10:31:06 AM
All these "lawsuits" really make me think someone just wants to get their hand greased. 
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on November 28, 2013, 02:54:55 PM
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All these "lawsuits" really make me think someone just wants to get their hand greased.

That's certainly a plausible explanation.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: mdla on January 08, 2014, 11:24:40 AM
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This article is mostly 'old news'.

http://www.venuestoday.com/news/detail/sdcc-expansion-clears-coastal-commission-1022 (http://www.venuestoday.com/news/detail/sdcc-expansion-clears-coastal-commission-1022)

But it does include an interesting quote from David Glanzer.

“Believe it or not, when we negotiate we really won’t take the expansion into consideration - we haven’t in our last two turns negotiating because we haven’t known where the project stands, and even with this month’s decision there are still a few hurdles to cross,” said Glanzer. He added that Comic-Con International is based in San Diego and would ideally like to continue at the facility if logistical concerns like space and financial concerns of too-high hotel rates can be mitigated.

The company also operates WonderCon at Anaheim Convention Center and Alternative Press Expo at Concourse Exhibition Center in San Francisco, so they know “it’s possible to do shows outside of San Diego.”


So there's actually an official statement that they could possibly move from San Diego. Or at least are threatening to.

Reading it actually doesn't surprise me too much.  I think CCI demonstrated that they are willing to expand outside the Convention Center with some of the panels they held at that theater a few blocks down.  I could see the entire downtown area having various official-CCI activities with the Convention Center acting as more of a "hub."
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: alyssa on May 05, 2014, 06:21:46 PM
anyone heard anything?
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on May 05, 2014, 06:39:51 PM
All I can find is this article from about a week ago that suggests that the expansion might be in trouble due to cost overruns relating to the many legal challenges the expansion is facing.

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/Convention-Center-Costs-Escalating-Lawsuits-on-Appeal-Await-Hearing-256635261.html (http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/Convention-Center-Costs-Escalating-Lawsuits-on-Appeal-Await-Hearing-256635261.html)
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Zero on May 05, 2014, 06:59:52 PM
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All I can find is this article from about a week ago that suggests that the expansion might be in trouble due to cost overruns relating to the many legal challenges the expansion is facing.

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/Convention-Center-Costs-Escalating-Lawsuits-on-Appeal-Await-Hearing-256635261.html (http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/Convention-Center-Costs-Escalating-Lawsuits-on-Appeal-Await-Hearing-256635261.html)

There really hasn't been many updates on this even for the S.D. local TV news (at least that I am aware of).  Most of it seems very "hush-hush" in the meantime, as they try to iron out the many legal issues with the expansion.  (What an understatement, I know, ha ha.)

Here's an older article from March, titled "San Diego Tourism Leaders: Uncertain Convention Center Expansion Timeline Could Hurt Sales."
http://www.kpbs.org/news/2014/mar/12/san-diego-tourism-leaders-uncertain-convention-cen/
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Mel on May 06, 2014, 09:50:07 AM
It is very murky. There has been mention of letting citizens vote on it even.

I can't imagine Comic-Con not being in San Diego. The whole atmosphere of all downtown becoming part of it with all the off-sites and business transformations....Petco Park. For those that went to WonderCon, it's clear that Anaheim does not provide anything like The Gaslamp.

Sent from my VS870 4G using Tapatalk

Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: mattnathaniel on May 06, 2014, 09:20:47 PM

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. For those that went to WonderCon, it's clear that Anaheim does not provide anything like The Gaslamp.

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Last year the talk about it moving was going going on, and I thought "oh cool if it was in Anaheim it would be way closer to home." After going to SDCC I realized it wouldn't be the same if it moved to Anaheim, the "Anaheim resort" area doesn't provide the same atmosphere as Gaslamp does.

It would be sad to see it leave.


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Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Vapors on May 06, 2014, 09:42:44 PM
While only a column (by a columnist I'm none too impressed), this does lay into a problem that San Diego may face. 

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2014/may/06/nfl-chargers-qualcomm-fabiani-kroenke-rams/

The column lays bear the fear that San Diego would lose the Chargers if they can't get their convention/stadium idea's groundwork on the ground in the short term.  If their idea gets approved and the convention center is split, would Comic Con stay in San Diego since a continuous convention center is more ideal than a split one?  I don't think it has to be an either or proposition, but if given the choice, would San Diego citizens vote for the Chargers proposal over the convention center's plan?  Also, would the San Diego citizens even approve of either plan if given the choice?  While I love Comic Con staying in San Diego, I would probably vote for the Chargers proposal since I love the bolts so much.  This despite knowing it could drive Comic Con out of San Diego.  I'm curious what other San Diego natives think?
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Bert Su on May 09, 2014, 02:11:21 PM
I didn't think the Chargers could leave San Diego. It'd be like if a college football team deciding to move to another college when their football field is demolished for reconstruction
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Miss Kitty on May 10, 2014, 11:29:34 AM
Actually, I think the Chargers could easily pull up roots and move up the coast to OC or LA (or anywhere for that matter). We have a hard time selling out games sometimes.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Mel on May 10, 2014, 04:56:47 PM
Yeah, Chargers can't sell out games as it is. I can only imagine the crickets with a new stadium that would make ticket prices even higher than their already out-of-reach for most San Diegans prices.

I'd love to see a breakdown of how much revenue SDCC brings the city vs. Chargers. I don't think the Chargers bring in much to be honest. And the maybe once a decade Superbowl that a new stadium might bring, I don't see bringing in much more money then the already yearly SDCC.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Zero on May 10, 2014, 11:17:41 PM
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Actually, I think the Chargers could easily pull up roots and move up the coast to OC or LA (or anywhere for that matter). We have a hard time selling out games sometimes.

As an S.D. local, I would agree with this, but the only thing about having the Chargers headquartered in L.A. is that the traffic in the Downtown area, where they would like to build the new stadium, will be even worse than before.  @__@;;;
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: mattnathaniel on May 11, 2014, 05:19:46 AM

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As an S.D. local, I would agree with this, but the only thing about having the Chargers headquartered in L.A. is that the traffic in the Downtown area, where they would like to build the new stadium, will be even worse than before.  @__@;;;

Theres more than one proposed stadium. I don't know if they've started on the one in DTLA, but they've started grading the land for the one in City of Industry.


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Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Zero on May 11, 2014, 05:24:24 AM
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Theres more than one proposed stadium. I don't know if they've started on the one in DTLA, but they've started grading the land for the one in City of Industry.


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Oh, dang!  I wasn't aware that they were already looking at the site in City of Industry.  Thanks.

Here's a little bit more reading for anyone interested (because I was curious, ha ha):
http://nfl.si.com/2014/02/05/los-angeles-nfl-stadium/

There might actually be three locations that they're looking at, so the Chargers might potentially go to one of them if they move out of San Diego.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Bert Su on May 14, 2014, 01:35:50 AM
I hope they can get the expansion over with so Comic Con can keep up with the demand for badges
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: alyssa on May 14, 2014, 05:12:05 AM
personally, i am hoping that sd is able to do the construction with minimal impact on SDCC.  I can see the actual construction taking more than one year so there might be a year of sdcc which is tricky due to the work in progress
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on May 14, 2014, 10:50:02 AM
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personally, i am hoping that sd is able to do the construction with minimal impact on SDCC.  I can see the actual construction taking more than one year so there might be a year of sdcc which is tricky due to the work in progress

I agree. Even if they start construction right after one SDCC, it will likely still be continuing through the following con.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: mattnathaniel on May 14, 2014, 11:36:29 AM
I wonder where everyone's gonna camp out/line up for Hall  H once they start.


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Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on May 14, 2014, 11:57:00 AM
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I wonder where everyone's gonna camp out/line up for Hall  H once they start.

I think they're going to set up pontoons all the way to Coronado Island... ;)
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: mattnathaniel on May 14, 2014, 12:30:12 PM

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I think they're going to set up pontoons all the way to Coronado Island... ;)

Hahaha
We think the line looks long now, just wait until there's no queue in the plaza we'll see how far it really stretches


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Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Pyramid on May 14, 2014, 05:22:11 PM
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I think they're going to set up pontoons all the way to Coronado Island... ;)

Wonderful!  I'll plan on showing up at 7am and releasing them into the bay.  A little snip snip and I'm in Hall H this year!!
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on May 14, 2014, 05:53:43 PM
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Wonderful!  I'll plan on showing up at 7am and releasing them into the bay.  A little snip snip and I'm in Hall H this year!!

That will work, but only for half the line. You'll still have to merge with the people lining up over the Coronado Bridge.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Pyramid on May 14, 2014, 05:58:20 PM
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That will work, but only for half the line. You'll still have to merge with the people lining up over the Coronado Bridge.

Then what is the point of the pontoons?!  CCI, really needs to manage their lines better.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Vapors on May 14, 2014, 11:31:05 PM
Good one on the pontoons.  All kidding aside.  If the expansion puts pushed through, that will be one clusterfudge, since the expansion plans call on eliminating that green space next to Hall H as well as upgrading the walkway along the ocean between the convention center and Hilton Hotel.  There will literally be no place to hold all those people unless they want them to line up by the Seaport Village.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on May 15, 2014, 06:33:58 AM
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Good one on the pontoons.  All kidding aside.  If the expansion puts pushed through, that will be one clusterfudge, since the expansion plans call on eliminating that green space next to Hall H as well as upgrading the walkway along the ocean between the convention center and Hilton Hotel.  There will literally be no place to hold all those people unless they want them to line up by the Seaport Village.

I seem to recall that when they heard about the new green park-space on the roof, one of the CCI people commented 'great place for a Hall H lineup'. Not sure where I saw this though, just something I recall.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: DaveG on May 15, 2014, 09:47:18 AM
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I seem to recall that when they heard about the new green park-space on the roof, one of the CCI people commented 'great place for a Hall H lineup'. Not sure where I saw this though, just something I recall.

Also remember seeing that, but also can't remember where.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: mattnathaniel on May 15, 2014, 10:51:37 AM

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I seem to recall that when they heard about the new green park-space on the roof, one of the CCI people commented 'great place for a Hall H lineup'. Not sure where I saw this though, just something I recall.
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Also remember seeing that, but also can't remember where.


There will be a park on top of the part that's taking over the plaza


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Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: alyssa on May 15, 2014, 11:23:41 AM

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Also remember seeing that, but also can't remember where.
David Glazner said it during one of Leonard's hangouts
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on May 15, 2014, 01:15:18 PM
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David Glazner said it during one of Leonard's hangouts

Oh good, so my memory wasn't just making up stuff!!! ;)
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Bert Su on May 21, 2014, 10:50:16 PM
They should just get the expansion thing done and over with as soon as they can. If the guys on extreme make over ginger edition can demolish and rebuild a house in a week, the San Diego convention center can be expanded in less than a year
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Zero on May 21, 2014, 10:54:31 PM
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They should just get the expansion thing done and over with as soon as they can. If the guys on extreme make over ginger edition can demolish and rebuild a house in a week, the San Diego convention center can be expanded in less than a year

Except that private property and public property are two different things.  Permits, contracts, unions, laborers, contractors, legal aspects and ramifications, effects on traffic in the area, effects on organizations or companies that normally rent out the convention center (or parts of it) during the year, and several other elements come into play when you're dealing with a major construction project such as this.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Bert Su on May 24, 2014, 01:18:45 PM
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Except that private property and public property are two different things.  Permits, contracts, unions, laborers, contractors, legal aspects and ramifications, effects on traffic in the area, effects on organizations or companies that normally rent out the convention center (or parts of it) during the year, and several other elements come into play when you're dealing with a major construction project such as this.
Who wouldn't want to see the convention center expanded?
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Vapors on May 24, 2014, 06:08:45 PM
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Who wouldn't want to see the convention center expanded?

The Chargers.  At least they don't want the expansion as the plans currently stand.  They want a stadium connected to the convention expansion, but located at another place.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: BadWolf on May 27, 2014, 07:59:47 AM
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Good one on the pontoons.  All kidding aside.  If the expansion puts pushed through, that will be one clusterfudge, since the expansion plans call on eliminating that green space next to Hall H as well as upgrading the walkway along the ocean between the convention center and Hilton Hotel.  There will literally be no place to hold all those people unless they want them to line up by the Seaport Village.

Agree that this will be a charlie foxtrot. Maybe they will finally institute some sort of ticketing system.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: mattnathaniel on May 28, 2014, 08:10:52 PM
Anaheim's a hobbit compared to SD but they need to get the ball rollin soon.

http://m.ocregister.com/articles/center-605190-city-convention.html


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Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Jim Watari on June 03, 2014, 10:34:53 AM
New video of park space on top of the convention center

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZ9Z8-dE_UY
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: DaveG on June 03, 2014, 11:13:45 AM
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New video of park space on top of the convention center

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZ9Z8-dE_UY

This is awesome.  I wish they'd just hurry up and build it.

Stupid special interest groups - There should be some kind of penalty for failed lawsuits so that they aren't filed frivolously.

Anyway, was anyone else watching the video looking to make sure they had plenty of space for panel line queues?
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Bert Su on June 15, 2014, 12:18:32 AM
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This is awesome.  I wish they'd just hurry up and build it.
This
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: The Gossamer on July 08, 2014, 12:50:56 PM
http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2014/jul/07/convention-center-hotel-tax-argued-court/
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Bert Su on July 09, 2014, 06:27:33 PM
I hope SDCC wins the case
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Pyramid on July 09, 2014, 07:22:36 PM
All to squeeze as much revenue from the convention center as possible.  What a joke.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Vapors on July 09, 2014, 08:11:59 PM
Good they are finally trying to get this resolved.  I want the convention center to expand like the next Comic Con fan, but something about how this got set up does seem shady to me.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Bert Su on July 13, 2014, 05:12:25 PM
That's a shame because I think an expansion can only be good
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: alyssa on August 01, 2014, 07:05:29 PM
new ruling
http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2014/aug/01/convention-expansion-hotel-tax-unconstitutional/

In a court ruling that could potentially doom the city's plans for an expanded convention center, a panel of judges Friday said the hotel tax to finance the $520 million project is unconstitutional.

At issue was the legality of a hotel room surcharge already approved two years ago by the city's hotel owners to generate the bulk of the revenues needed to pay for a much larger convention center.

The judges, in a unanimous decision, concluded that "while we understand that the city would like to expand the convention center, we are duty bound to uphold the provisions of the California Constitution and the City Charter that require that the city's registered voters approve the special tax at issue in the case."

Although a Superior Court judge ruled more than a year ago that the tax is legal, his decision was appealed by opponents who claimed that the levy should have been put to a public citywide vote.

What happens next remains unclear. City leaders and tourism officials have long said the bayfront center needs to be expanded in order to attract larger, more financially lucrative conventions, as well as keep those that have outgrown the center like Comic-Con, which draws 130,000 attendees each July. The center was last expanded in 2001.

Potentially, the city could put the hotel tax to a vote, opt to appeal the ruling to the California Supreme Court or possibly come up with an entirely new plan.

“The Convention Center expansion is critically important for our regional economy," Mayor Kevin Faulconer said in a statement Friday. "It would create thousands of good jobs and ensure that we continue to attract large conventions like Comic-Con. We will be working with the City Attorney’s Office to review all options in moving forward.”

City Attorney Jan Goldsmith said the ruling was not necessarily unexpected, but it will be up to the mayor and City Council to decide whether they want to appeal.

"It is not surprising given that the city was testing the boundaries of the law," he said. "As we stated (in 2012), the most reliable way to impose this tax is to place it on the general ballot. Two and a half years later, it still is. But, if the council and mayor want to take the test to the highest level, the city can appeal to the Supreme Court."

Recognizing the potential financial risks, the city had held off collecting the hotel tax and undertaking design and construction of the expansion, awaiting the resolution of the litigation. The California Coastal Commission already has approved the project, which calls for the center to grow by an additional 220,150 square feet in exhibit hall space, 101,500 square feet of meeting rooms and nearly 80,000 square feet of ballroom space.

Attorney Cory Briggs, representing San Diegans for Open Governments, one of two appellants in the case, said that what resonated with the judges was that the "Constitution and the city charter very clearly require flesh and blood human beings to vote on taxes, not hotel businesses who are the beneficiaries of the tax revenues." Also joining Briggs in fighting the convention center tax was citizen activist Mel Shapiro.

Wrote the appellate panel in its 53-page opinion, "Giving Landowners the unilateral right to determine how to apportion the benefits that would flow from a tax whose burdens may well fall on others would be contrary to both the Constitution and ordinary principles of taxation. In short, the City's policy argument is unpersuasive..."

Whether the court ruling will revive a previous Chargers proposal to develop a joint football stadium and convention center several blocks is unknown, although city leaders have repeatedly rejected the idea as an alternative to the expansion. Large groups coming to San Diego, they argued, want a meeting space that is contiguous.

"Today’s unanimous decision is not a surprise," said Mark Fabiani, special counsel to the Chargers. "The Chargers have been saying for years that the existing Convention Center expansion plan would not survive legal scrutiny."

Had the legal test of the hotel tax gone the city's way, the plan was to begin working on final design drawings for the project later this year, with an anticipated start of construction by 2016 and completion by 2018.

Comic-Con International, which has committed to stay in San Diego through 2016 but not beyond, said Friday it hopes the city will come up with a plan to continue to accommodate the huge crowds the pop culture confab draws. With each passing year, the convention has relied increasingly on nearby hotels and other venues to complement the maxed-out space in the center.

"We knew, as early as 2006, that we would run out of space at the current facility," said Comic-Con spokesman David Glanzer. "Since that time the mayor, city officials, hoteliers and the convention center staff have worked to help us address our space concerns. We trust those entities will continue to work with us in welcoming thousands of people to San Diego."

Hoteliers, who had lobbied hard for the expansion because of the thousands more overnight stays they believed it would deliver, were stunned and discouraged by the ruling.

“For us to remain a major convention city, we have to expand the center,” said Tuni Kyi, manager of the Marriott Marquis and Marina downtown. “So whether the voters approve it or business people raise the funds, whichever mechanism is the right away, we’ve got to figure out a solution as a team.”

Bill Evans, CEO of Evans Hotels, which owns several hotels, including The Lodge at Torrey Pines and the Bahia Resort, saod he wasn’t confident that San Diego voters would pass the tax with a required two-thirds vote.

“San Diegans historically have shown even if you give them free ice cream on the ballot, it’s tough to get two-thirds."

Meanwhile, San Diego is facing growing competition from other cities as Anaheim and San Francisco are also moving forward on plans to grow their centers.

Former Mayor Jerry Sanders, who pushed hard to advance the project while in office, said Friday he was concerned about the project now facing further delays. Now CEO of the San Diego Regional Chamber of Commerce, Sanders said he hopes "the city can work to put together a new plan that will meet the necessary legal requirements and allow the expansion project to move forward."

Staff writers Roger Showely, Jonathan Horn and Katherine Harvey contributed to this report.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Andrew Costa Mesa on August 01, 2014, 08:04:36 PM
I don't understand why it should go to the voters to decide.  It's not like they are going to stay in the hotels and pay the tax.  It's not going to affect them one way or the other.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: DaveG on August 01, 2014, 08:36:40 PM
I love the convention being in San Diego and hope it stays there for a long time.  But having said that, I'm starting to hope the expansion is finished by the time my grandchildren are old enough to go to the Con. 
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Chris on August 01, 2014, 09:17:52 PM
Does anyone happen to know the % increase of sq ft the propsed expansion would bring?
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on August 01, 2014, 10:07:59 PM
I've gotten to the point where I'm not going to believe the expansion will happen until I see them breaking ground.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: alyssa on August 02, 2014, 04:53:31 AM
so & correct me if i'm wrong the options are

appeal or put it to a vote?
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: CptMyCpt24 on August 02, 2014, 06:50:18 AM
Are the Chargers still trying to get a new stadium out of the expansion?
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: DaveG on August 02, 2014, 06:58:49 AM
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so & correct me if i'm wrong the options are

appeal or put it to a vote?

That's how I read it.  I also read that a vote would almost certainly fail.  Can you imagine anywhere in the country being able to pass measure to raise any kind of tax and needing two thirds of the vote for it to pass?  An appeal didn't sound promising either.  I think SDCC has to seriously start considering other locations.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: jimy on August 02, 2014, 10:44:41 AM
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That's how I read it.  I also read that a vote would almost certainly fail.  Can you imagine anywhere in the country being able to pass measure to raise any kind of tax and needing two thirds of the vote for it to pass?  An appeal didn't sound promising either.  I think SDCC has to seriously start considering other locations.

While it's normally difficult to get people to vote for a tax increase, seems that this is just the kind of increase that many people would support in that the people that are voting for the tax increase aren't the ones that would have to pay it (the out-of-towners staying at the hotels are the ones that would pay it), not too often do you get to vote for a tax increase for someone other than yourself.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on August 02, 2014, 11:33:33 AM
That's what seems weird to me too. How is it unconstitutional if the people who voted on it are the people impacted by the tax increase?
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: DRWHO42 on August 02, 2014, 11:40:00 AM
The "unconstitutional" word is used way too often and the people who use it do not really know what it means. It is a diversionary word at the end of the day to say "I do not like it and there is no law I can cite so here is the "big" word I can use as a substitute". I am being a bit sarcastic because this phrase is being overused and used for the wrong reasons.

At the end of the day people will object and delay things for attention or because they will not benefit from it.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on August 02, 2014, 11:46:25 AM
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The "unconstitutional" word is used way too often and the people who use it do not really know what it means. It is a diversionary word at the end of the day to say "I do not like it and there is no law I can cite so here is the "big" word I can use as a substitute". I am being a bit sarcastic because this phrase is being overused and used for the wrong reasons.

At the end of the day people will object and delay things for attention or because they will not benefit from it.

I could not have said this better myself. *thumbs up*
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: mattnathaniel on August 02, 2014, 12:04:08 PM
Corey Briggs is a huge troll
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Pyramid on August 04, 2014, 03:03:47 PM
When I first read this, all I could think is that there is more hand greasing and more behind the curtain shenanigans (can't help but think of Super Troopers when I use that word) which will continue to hold this up.  If the hotels owners, who are going to pay the taxes, are fine then why put it to a city wide vote unless someone wants to stop it?  I think the Chargers are still trying to get a stadium out of this, of course they'd need an actual team first ... ohhhhhhhhhh snap.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on August 04, 2014, 04:35:25 PM
A new wrinkle -- somebody show them the endless possibilities of naming rights $$$!

(bold emphasis = mine; oh, how comforting!)

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2014/aug/04/convention-center-naming-rights-maintenance/

The San Diego Convention Center, facing more than $40 million in deferred maintenance and operational expenses, is looking into a naming rights deal to raise revenues.

The Cleveland, Ohio-based Superlative Group has been hired by the Convention Center Corp. to explore not only corporate naming rights but also sponsorships and the naming of different parts of the center.

The company, which has experience selling such rights to ballparks, stadiums and arenas and other municipally-owned assets, will spend the next 90 days exploring what potential value the center has for sponsorship and naming partnerships.

Possible opportunities beyond naming the entire center are partnerships with automotive, banking and insurance companies, for example, who could advertise their businesses on signage within the center, explained Kyle Canter, Superlative's chief operating officer.

"The goal is to maximize and leverage these highly valued opportunities while being tasteful," he said. "In our business, we say that you don't want to 'NASCAR' it up (like a NASCAR vehicle) with a bunch of stickers. There's a fine line between leveraging highly valued opportunities and going overboard because then you devalue everything."

The move to pursue a naming rights deal is fueled by the center's growing tab for repairs, most notably the need to replace the fabric structure of the upper level Sails Pavilion.

"The Sails Pavilion is 25 years old, and its useful life is 20 years, so it's rotting and likely to fail anytime soon," said center spokesman Steve Johnson.

In addition, the center no longer has the funds to maintain an operating reserve, a concern raised repeatedly by the city's independent budget analyst. The center is largely self-supporting through the revenues it gets from leasing the bayfront facility, although it does receive an annual city subsidy of $3.4 million, $1.9 million of which goes to the Tourism Authority staffing for booking large conventions.

Meanwhile, the city's plans to substantially expand the center remain in limbo in light of a Friday ruling by an appellate court panel that the financing mechanism for the $520 million project is unconstitutional. The city is seeking to use a special hotel room tax to pay for the bulk of the expansion. No decision has been made yet on how to proceed.

Once Superlative completes its research phase, the next step will be for the Convention Center Corp. to decide on how it wants to proceed and then pursue actual sponsorship and naming rights deals. Under the corporation's contract with Superlative, the firm would receive a commission of 12.5 percent of annual naming rights and sponsorship revenues, up to $1 million, and 10 percent over $1 million, Johnson said.

The entire process could take from 18 months to two years, he said.

Although there are few major cities with centers that have been branded with corporate names, the demand for such naming rights revenue is growing, said Canter. Among those who currently have partnered with corporations are centers in Milwaukee, Cincinnati, Bakersfield and Madison, Wisconsin.

Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on August 04, 2014, 05:19:22 PM
I recall hearing rumblings about the physical condition of the current convention center before. At least they're looking to fix it up!
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Pyramid on August 04, 2014, 08:48:45 PM
When I was waiting in line for PN, I noticed that the Sails were in really bad shape, dirty and what not.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: dolphina on August 04, 2014, 09:51:44 PM
While waiting for PN in Sails the sun coming through the glass made it REALLY hot, I wonder if that is an issue with any other events or if I'm just a wimp  ???
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Mel on August 04, 2014, 10:06:12 PM
The day before the con, Glanzer did and interview with Beth Accomando on KPBS and he said that the center expanding or not has never been anything they used to decide keeping it in San Diego. He said if they were leaving b/c there was no expansion they would have left a few years ago. He seemed to make it pretty clear that they don't want to move it and said that they will and have made it work by using the hotels and surrounding areas. He said of course he'd love an expansion, but that it's not and never has been a deciding factor.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: dolphina on August 04, 2014, 10:48:22 PM
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The day before the con, Glanzer did and interview with Beth Accomando on KPBS and he said that the center expanding or not has never been anything they used to decide keeping it in San Diego. He said if they were leaving b/c there was no expansion they would have left a few years ago. He seemed to make it pretty clear that they don't want to move it and said that they will and have made it work by using the hotels and surrounding areas. He said of course he'd love an expansion, but that it's not and never has been a deciding factor.
That's good, cause I would REALLY like it to stay right where it is at  ;D
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: mdla on August 05, 2014, 10:19:57 AM
Everyone looking forward to San Diego Comic Con: Brought to you by Carl's Jr? :P
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Pyramid on August 05, 2014, 10:25:43 AM
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Everyone looking forward to San Diego Comic Con: Brought to you by Carl's Jr? :P

lol, I thought it was Subway?
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: jimy on August 05, 2014, 10:30:31 AM
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lol, I thought it was Subway?

Since Comic-con is the biggest driver of the Convention Center Expansion, why not make it Marvel or DC?
Title: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: ahbbb on August 05, 2014, 10:34:45 AM
Or WB or Fox or Lionsgate?
Lucasfilms?
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: mattnathaniel on August 05, 2014, 10:34:47 AM

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lol, I thought it was Subway?

Verizon Wireless, so we get better service in the convention center.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: kohyuta on August 05, 2014, 10:36:28 AM
I can't wait to camp out in the Hall Preparation H line. Or the Ballroom 20/20 Vision Center line.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on August 05, 2014, 11:41:33 AM
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I can't wait to camp out in the Hall Preparation H line. Or the Ballroom 20/20 Vision Center line.

Can't... stop... laughing...
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: jimy on August 06, 2014, 08:00:52 AM
From the San Diego Union:

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2014/aug/05/convention-center-ballot-november-opposed/

Convention Center won't be on Nov. ballot
Options pondered to revive center expansion, including high court appeal

 
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Roger Showley and Lori Weisberg11:15 p.m.Aug. 5, 2014

The city of San Diego will not ask voters this November to approve a hotel tax to finance an expansion of the convention center, following a court ruling Friday that its taxation plan was unconstitutional.

Although the city’s hotel owners two years ago approved a hotel tax of 1 percent to 3 percent to finance the $520 million project, a state appellate court said it was invalid because it was not put to a citywide vote of the electorate.

On Thursday, the City Council and Mayor Kevin Faulconer will meet behind closed doors to weigh their options. But faced with a deadline of 2 p.m. Wednesday to prepare an ordinance for a November ballot measure, there was simply not enough time to consider such a measure, Council President Todd Gloria’s office said.

A ballot proposition was one of three options City Attorney Jan Goldsmith laid out in a memo to the mayor and council in preparation for the city’s next move. Not mentioned was an alternative proposal previously advanced by the Chargers to develop a combined stadium and center east of Petco Park.

“The tax has not been collected and, thus, the city is not at risk of having to pay refunds,” Goldsmith said in a three-page memo. “The decision only affects the financing plan and not the project itself.”

Goldsmith said two other options open to the council include:

-Take no action and pursue other alternative funding. While other revenue sources have been studied in the past, none were considered as feasible as a hotel room surcharge, which was to provide the bulk of the financing for the project.

-Appeal the ruling to the state Supreme Court. Goldsmith said the filing deadline is Sept. 10 and the council can delay that decision until late August.

“It is unknown how long it would take for the Supreme Court review, if the court decides to review the case,” Goldsmith said.

While Goldsmith did not indicate what he would advise, he noted in his memo, dated Monday, that the appeals court ruling was “quite strong.”

City leaders had been banking on a favorable ruling from the state appellate court, which would have been a pivotal step in moving the $520 million project forward toward a 2018 completion. While the council may not be pursuing an election this year, the possibility of a special election next year remains, or in June or November 2016.

Goldsmith reiterated yet again a position his office took in 2012 when it said “the most reliable way to impose this tax is to place it on the general ballot for approval. Regardless of outside advocates, that was 2-1/2 years ago and remains true today.”

But in all cases, a two-thirds approval would be required - and that looks rather problematic, an expansion spokesman and critic agreed.

In a KPBS radio discussion Tuesday, San Diego Convention Center Corp. spokesman Steve Johnson said the chances of gaining a supermajority voter approval are “anybody’s guess.”

“It’s a hard threshold,” he said.

CommentsCory Briggs, the attorney who was victorious before the appellate court, was more certain of the political outcome: “Nobody thinks it will get a two-thirds vote ... even with a lot of political support.”

Joe Terzi, CEO of the San Diego Tourism Authority, which handles long-term bookings at the center, said his sales force is contacting key clients to update them on what is going on. The authority has booked a number of conventions many years out, but those groups can cancel their reservations without financial penalty as long as they do so more than five years before their scheduled events. Comic-Con, the city’s largest convention, is booked through 2016, although not beyond.

“It would be devastating if we don’t figure out how to get this center expanded,” Terzi said. “We want to make sure our customers who are on the hook understand we clearly are committed to figure this problem out, and we’ll continue to communicate with them.”

Terzi was among several key stakeholders from the convention center and tourism industry who met Tuesday with Faulconer and Gloria’s office to discuss the future of the convention center expansion.

At that meeting, Faulconer “expressed his clear commitment to finding ways to move forward with a solution that has broad support,” said his chief of staff, Matt Awbrey. He didn’t provide any further details.

Johnson, who attended the meeting, said that Faulconer first wants to hear what Goldsmith has to say during the closed-door briefing on Thursday before considering other options.

“He said that once a litigation decision is made, there will be follow-up conversations about next steps,” Johnson said.

With the expansion under discussion for the last five years, Briggs renewed the argument he made before the California Coastal Commission - which he is also suing - that the project should be built away from the waterfront.

“If everybody wants to get something going sooner than later, everyone has to acknowledge that they cannot get 100 percent of what they want,” Briggs said. “What’s the next best thing?”

Alternatives might include bringing the Chargers into the discussion, Briggs suggested.

“We all need to talk about what are the best ways to succeed that benefit everyone,” Briggs said. “Those are conversations we can have in the coming weeks.”

Johnson said convention planners continue to prefer adding space that is contiguous to the present center, which opened in 1989 and was expanded in 2001, both times without resorting to a tax increase.

“There is no plan on the table from any other entity around expansion or a joint use stadium,” he said. “It’s hard to react to something that isn’t there yet.”

Without voter approval of higher taxes, it is unclear where the city could get the funds for expansion.

Construction of the 1989 convention center was funded fully by the San Diego Unified Port District. The port helped out on the 2001 expansion and offered $2 million annually for 20 years for the current $520 million project. The city is still tapping its general fund to finance bonds for the last expansion and pledged $3.5 million annually for the now stalled project. The hotel tax would have generated roughly $35 million a year.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Chris on August 06, 2014, 10:39:43 AM
Can someone please educate me in this as I have not been keeping up with it?  What is the disadvantage to the larger convention center? 

One thought I had heard was if the convention center had, for example, twice the floor space, does San Diego have twice the hotel rooms to accommodate the increased attendees?
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on August 06, 2014, 11:24:10 AM
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Can someone please educate me in this as I have not been keeping up with it?  What is the disadvantage to the larger convention center? 

I believe the arguments against the expansion have included:

- blocking the view of the waterfront from downtown
- lack of union workers on the project
- the Chargers want to use the space for a new stadium
- some people don't like the hotel tax being proposed to finance the expansion

Have I missed anything?
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: semigeekgirl on August 06, 2014, 11:24:34 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think the objections are so much to the expansion itself as to the tax to fund it. I support the expansion, and I like that the tax in question was agreed on by the people most affected (the hotels) and will be paid by the others likely to be affected (the visitors utilizing the center and hotels), it doesn't change the fact that the way they passed the tax was a little bit shifty.

They basically created a 'merchant district' of the affected downtown hotels, and then had the merchant district vote on the tax as the affected class. Which sounds like it makes sense, except 1) that's not actually an accepted method of passing a tax in California, and 2) corporations are not generally allowed to vote.

So I'm torn. I REALLY want the Convention Center to expand, and I think the Chargers are being obstructionist jerks in the hopes that they'll get an outcome favorable to them and not the City in general. But I also think you shouldn't be able to make up districts and voting classes just to get your particular proposal passed. It's a very bad precedent.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: The Gossamer on August 06, 2014, 11:59:37 AM
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think the objections are so much to the expansion itself as to the tax to fund it. I support the expansion, and I like that the tax in question was agreed on by the people most affected (the hotels) and will be paid by the others likely to be affected (the visitors utilizing the center and hotels), it doesn't change the fact that the way they passed the tax was a little bit shifty.

They basically created a 'merchant district' of the affected downtown hotels, and then had the merchant district vote on the tax as the affected class. Which sounds like it makes sense, except 1) that's not actually an accepted method of passing a tax in California, and 2) corporations are not generally allowed to vote.

So I'm torn. I REALLY want the Convention Center to expand, and I think the Chargers are being obstructionist jerks in the hopes that they'll get an outcome favorable to them and not the City in general. But I also think you shouldn't be able to make up districts and voting classes just to get your particular proposal passed. It's a very bad precedent.

You are right on target with this. I work for the City of San Diego and can tell you this is true. It was conducted by selected hotel owners and what some people do not know that certain hotels (ones closer to the center will have some influenece on future decisions of convention gatherings). There was some backroom dealings to get the hotels on board to pass this tax.

http://voiceofsandiego.org/2012/04/13/secrecy-erodes-in-hotel-vote/

As for the Chargers whining ever since Petco Park was approved to be built Spanos was crying that the Chargers needed a new stadium also. Also around the same time after San Diego hosted the last Superbowl the NFL suddenly declared the Qaullcomm stadium was too small for any future Superbowl until San Diego built a larger one.

Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Chris on August 06, 2014, 12:06:05 PM
Thanks for the background everyone.  :)
Title: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: jujubaSD on August 06, 2014, 06:55:09 PM
I doubt the Chargers will get a stadium downtown. They don't have enough faithful fans to fill the stadium to pay for the costs it would need to build it. The Mayor doesn't want to impose a tax for building a new stadium. Which leaves the majority of the funds coming from the Spanos and the NFL. I doubt the NFL would want to lose money in a dying horse, when they already think them better suited in LA. It's a nonargument.

The single biggest issue has been $$. Always the funding and now the taxes.

Everything else is just complaining to complain by the naysayers


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on August 09, 2014, 01:06:59 PM
(bold = my emphasis)

From:

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2014/aug/09/convention-stadium-options-jmi-chargers/

Builders pitch convention annex, stadium

JMI Realty's $1.4B double-facility one of many options before the city

By Roger Showley
6 a.m. Aug. 9, 2014
Updated 11:54 a.m.


The builders of Petco Park have unveiled a $1.4 billion plan that could produce more space for conventions and a new stadium for the Chargers at less cost than if built independently.

The plan, shared with U-T San Diego last week, comes just as city officials and the hotel industry are trying to decide what do about an Aug. 1 appellate court decision that threw the proposed $520 million San Diego Convention Center.expansion into jeopardy. It also offers the chance to solve the Chargers’ objections to playing at Qualcomm Stadium. There are least five other alternatives available to the city.

JMI Realty, former Padres owner John Moore’s real estate company that oversaw the ballpark district master plan, has shared its ideas with the city, Chargers and other stakeholders, and plans to meet with other groups in coming weeks.

The JMI concept, with multiple options, may not please everyone, but if offers at least one way out of the legal limbo for the convention center, which tourism industry leaders say needs to be bigger to accommodate growing convention business.

“The bottom line is you can physically create a multiuse facility with the Chargers that would be incredibly sexy and attractive and the whole issue of conventions and the appetite for being in a building like that would be very high,“ said JMI President John Kratzer. “And I think the aggregate cost of doing that is going to be hundreds of millions of dollars less expensive,” he said.

The proposed sites are across the railroad tracks from the convention center, generally east of Petco Park.

Even before the court ruling was handed down, Kratzer had ordered up architectural studies and economic analyses three months ago to explore alternatives. The fundamental conclusion was that if expansion were impossible, a nearby annex could achieve many of the same goals, mainly more space than is currently available - and a new football Chargers stadium as well.

“From my perspective,” Kratzer said, “the real message here is we all need to lock arms and acknowledge that that bayfront project is perhaps doomed. I’m not sure if the city’s got some brilliant ideas on how to resurrect it, but the question becomes are there alternatives and the answer is yes.”

The downside of building an annex is that the city would not end up with 750,000 square feet of contiguous space that very large conventions desire - and from which convention groups get most of their revenue. The current exhibit halls encompass 525,000 square feet.

But the upside of an annex, Kratzer said, is that two conventions could be more easily accommodated at the same time. He also said the cost of both convention and stadium projects would be less than standalone facilities. His consultants estimate the current convention center expansion cost at $680 million - $160 million more than the current budget - and a Chargers stadium at $1.15 billion, not counting site acquisition and environmental cleanup. JMI did not ask its consultants for a financing plan, leaving that crucial detail to the city to work out.

Unlike an earlier Chargers proposal, the stadium playing field would not be designed to accommodate convention exhibitors but other aspects of the stadium could be designed for convention use and thereby save $400 million off the $1.8 billion pricetag for a stand-alone stadium and an expanded convention center.

Although convention planners prefer to keep their meetings at one location, Kratzer said Comic-Con International has proved it can successfully expand outside into surrounding Gaslamp Quarter hotels and open space.

“I think in our climate you’ve got a chance to turn something others view as a negative into a positive,” Kratzer said. “In a noncontiguous format, you’ve got the ability to spread the convention out and take advantage of San Diego’s greatest asset, which is the weather.”


JMI offered five scenarios for the city to consider and shared three new renderings and floor plans:

Hotel: Develop the property owned by JMI as a hotel site at the foot of Park Boulevard with meeting space and ballrooms available for overflow from the convention center. Kratzer did not provide an cost estimate for this option.

Annex: Build a convention center annex on Tailgate Park east of Petco Park and on part of the MTS bus yard. It would include the same 400,000 square feet in exhibit, meeting and ballroom space proposed in the current center expansion plan. The cost would be $457 million, $63 million less than the present expansion budget of $520 million and $123 million less than a new estimate of $680 million prepared by JMI consultants.

Annex-hotel combination: Restrict the annex only to Tailgate park, where a two-level exhibit hall would be built. Meeting and ballroom space would be included in the JMI hotel site. Cost estimate: $602 million. It's unclear whether enough room would be left over for a stadium immediately east.

Stadium and convention expansion: Build the Chargers stadium, as the team earlier proposed, and expand the convention center as currently approved. Combined cost: $1.836 billion, including the higher cost estimate for the center expansion.

Joint-use facility: Develop a joint-use facility with the exhibit hall below the football field and the meeting and ballroom space in an attached building with views of the field and bay. Cost estimate: $1.42 billion, $416 million less than two separate facilities.

Chargers counsel Mark Fabiani declined to comment publicly on the JMI plan. But he has repeatedly said the team hopes to work out a plan that would deliver a new stadium to the team - either at the present Qualcomm Stadium site or downtown.

City officials and hotel industry insiders also declined comment with the mayor’s office saying it is looking at all options, meeting with stakeholders and hoping to “create a path forward that will be broadly supported by the community.”

Cory Briggs, the attorney who won the appellate court case, still has two lawsuits pending against the California Coastal Commission for its approval of the convention center expansion based on environmental objections to expanding on the waterfront. He said he might support a plan that relocates the convention center expansion but complained critics like him have been excluded.

“When you refuse to negotiate and instead try to force something down the public’s throat, the public goes out and hires lawyers who know how to ferret out illegal manipulations, financing, planning etc.,” Briggs said in an email, “and those lawyers file lawsuits to make sure the law is followed and the public is protected.”

Joe Terzi, president and CEO of the San Diego Tourism Authority, said it’s too early to reject any alternative or to abandon the current expansion plan, which has been in the works for five years.

“It would be foolish at this point not to look at all potential options, including are there additional funding opportunities for the existing plan, including how to deal with the issue of a new stadium,” Terzi said.

Tom Shepard, the political consultant who worked on the 1983 and 1998 convention center ballot measures and the 1998 Petco measure, said the earlier efforts involved extensive outreach that resulted in ballot victories.

“If the mayor and other stakeholders commit themselves to an open process and can come up with a financing plan that protects the general fund and offers a vision for the public benefit beyond just having a sports stadium and a convention center expansion, I think San Diego voters will support it,” Shepard said.

Already, San Diego is likely to pay a price for further delay. Several groups had booked the convention center based on its expansion coming in 2017 or ‘18. Now, even if a new plan can be reached, completion might not come until 2020 or even later.

Negotiations are under way to extend Comic-Con’s contract beyond 2016 and groups, particularly high-spending medical conventions, wanting more space are being urged to stick with San Diego.


“But the likelihood of several of these making a decision to move elsewhere for their future conventions is pretty clear,” Terzi said.

Lynn Reaser, economist at Point Loma Nazarene University said San Diego’s tourism economy could weather the loss of a bigger convention center.

“We would still have a significant tourism business - it’s just not as large as it could be,” she said.

The six options available

-Appeal the court decision

The City Council has until Sept. 10 to file an appeal with the state Supreme Court, but it is unknown if the court would accept the case and how long it would take to reach a ruling. Meanwhile, other legal challenges could keep the project in limbo for years. Said Joe Terzi, head of the San Diego Tourism Authority: “I just don’t see where an appeal has a (good) chance,” he said. City Attorney Jan Goldsmith did not weigh the chances but he was not encouraging in his Aug. 4 memo to the council: “This court of appeal decision is the first appellate court ruling on the issue and is quite strong.”

-Seek voter approval of the hotel tax increase

It’s too late to place the measure on the Nov. 4 ballot but the city could hold a special election in 2015 or put the measure on the June or November 2016 ballot. However, voters could face other measures involving bonds and taxes, including a $1 billion city infrastructure bond question. Two-thirds approval of the current funding plan would be hard to achieve, convention backers conceded. But it’s possible a new financing plan could be prepared that would require a simple majority. The downside of further delay is that costs keep rising and ever more money would be needed to fill the gap. And there’s always a chance of more legal challenges.

-Develop alternative funding

Terzi thinks a larger convention center could boost annual hotel room taxes from the present $170 million to $250 million and the increase could be used to repay construction bonds for the project. The risk is that the increase might fall short of projections and the city would have to fall back on existing hotel tax revenues that support other city services. Heywood Sanders, a University of Texas professor of public administration and author of the recently released book, “Convention Center Follies,” said many cities have projected higher attendance revenue from expanded convention centers that never materialized. “You’re facing a situation where folks competing against you can simply outbid you,” he said.

-Drop the expansion and build an annex

This approach by JMI Realty would eliminate the environmental objections to expanding on the bayfront and potentially could be cheaper and less complicated. But it would not yield the larger 750,000-square-foot contiguous exhibit space that very large groups want in San Diego. It faces the same funding challenges as the present expansion plan and would require new design and environmental analysis.

-Forget the expansion

The city and convention goers would save money but San Diego would slip behind other convention cities that are expanding their facilities. Sanders, the Texas professor, said the convention business actually represents a rather small part of any city’s tourism business. “If the goal is to boost visitor activity, you can boost it conceivably with a new theme park.”

-Build a stadium whose field doubles as exhibitor space

That was the Chargers’ pitch when it proposed to divert convention center expansion tax revenues to a new downtown stadium. But convention planners said that approach would not appeal to groups because the location is several blocks from the present center and their schedules can’t be changed if an unscheduled sporting event, such as a Super Bowl playoff, intervenes. Some cities do use indoor playing fields for convention gatherings, but not often for exhibitors. One of the JMI choices would locate exhibit space below the playing field and meeting and ballroom space in an attached building.

Jonathan Horn also contributed to this story.

© Copyright 2014 The San Diego Union-Tribune, LLC. An MLIM LLC Company. All rights reserved.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on August 09, 2014, 02:02:01 PM
LOL, so the Chargers are coming in to save the day with their own plan?
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: DaveG on August 09, 2014, 02:14:08 PM
I give up.  Let's face reality.  The space we have is the space we have.  If nothing is going to change for at least 5 to 6 years then let's not pretend like help is just around the corner.  I applaud CCI for doing the best they can to work with the surrounding hotels to supplement their space.  It's really the only option they have.  But already this year some people complained about having to trudge down to the Hyatt for the fulfillment room.  It sounds like the Chargers plan would expand things in the other direction.  They "want to take advantage of San Diego's greatest asset, which is the weather."  How many complaints did we have this year about having to stand for hours in the heat?  This is all BS and the Chargers are trying to leverage the situation to get their stadium and try to look like heroes while doing it.  It's so transparent, yet I'm sure some people will fall for it.  Ok, I'm done ranting.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Pyramid on August 09, 2014, 02:57:01 PM
Generally, the weather in San Diego is a plus but not this last year!  Sometimes I wish I had a water bottle to give some of the cosplayers I saw who were profusely sweating.  As an attendee, I would hate to go all the way over past PetCo to an annex.  The Fulfillment Room being located at the Hyatt was ridiculous and I didn't even bother with the Indigo ball room again this year.  Guaranteed, all SDCC has to do is hold Comic Con one year somewhere else (which I would hate but better than this crap) and San Diego will approve and make way for the convention center expansion with perks.  CCI already has another SoCal convention to fall back on. 
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: The Gossamer on August 09, 2014, 07:59:15 PM
I find it very funny how the Chargers try to squeeze in their beloved stadium any they can.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: alyssa on August 26, 2014, 04:18:32 PM
oh carp

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2014/aug/26/convention-center-expansion-no-court-appeal/

No appeal on convention center ruling

The city of San Diego will not appeal a recent court ruling that killed its plan to finance an expansion of the convention center with a hotelier-approved room tax.

The City Council's decision Tuesday to not pursue an appeal raises questions about when, if ever, a larger center will be built, given the daunting challenge of finding a new way to pay for the $520 million project or an alternative.

Meeting in closed session, the council considered how to proceed in light of an appellate court ruling earlier this month that a hotel room surcharge approved two years ago by the city’s hotel owners was unconstitutional because it was not submitted to the electorate.

While the city has the option of putting the matter to a vote of the people, it would require a two-thirds majority, a difficult threshold to meet for any tax, even a levy on visitors.

Mayor Kevin Faulconer said Tuesday he remains committed to an expansion of the center, but is now open to other ideas that could combine a new football stadium with a convention hall.

"As I take a fresh look at expanding the convention center, I am open to all options," Faulconer said in a prepared statement. "These include finding alternative financing for the current plan to expand directly next to the existing convention center as well as exploring a non-contiguous expansion at a different location that could include a new stadium for the Chargers. I continue to believe that any proposed Chargers stadium project should be brought before voters."

In recent weeks, Faulconer has been meeting with key stakeholders, including the lodging and convention industry, the Chargers and JMI Realty, the development company of former Padres owner John Moores. The Chargers have proposed using a new stadium's playing field for conventions, while JMI offered an alternative proposal that would put exhibit space underneath the field.

Councilman David Alvarez, who did not support the hotel tax when it was endorsed by the council in 2012, said he was pleased by the council decision.

"We have a new opportunity to move forward with a better project, including a potential stadium site, and engage San Diegans in a citywide dialogue about how to build the best facility possible," he said. "The people of San Diego should get a say on whether to fund a Convention Center expansion..."

Plans for an expanded convention center have been in the works for the last half-dozen years, culminating with a vote two years ago by the city's hotel owners to levy a room surcharge of 1 percent to 3 percent to generate the bulk of the revenue needed to pay for the project. Former Mayor Jerry Sanders, now CEO of the San Diego Regional Chamber of Commerce, shepherded the project, assembling a task force five years ago to study the possibility of a second expansion.

Although the proposed expansion already has passed muster with the California Coastal Commission, its approval has been challenged by attorney Cory Briggs, who prevailed in the hotel tax case before the appellate court. His suit against the Coastal Commission could take years to resolve.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on August 26, 2014, 05:36:00 PM
Yeah, makes it sound pretty much dead, doesn't it? Certainly not anytime soon.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: DaveG on August 26, 2014, 05:49:56 PM
Sadly, I agree.

What I'd like to know is how these people propose they pay for repairs to the current convention center?  Weren't there articles about the issues with the Sails Pavilion?  This whole situation just reeks of special interest groups selfishly pushing their own interests.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Miss Kitty on August 26, 2014, 11:10:45 PM
I'm disappointed and frustrated to say the least. BUT.....I wouldn't stress too much about SDCC moving.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: chunks on August 27, 2014, 12:43:43 AM
Hmm... I find this a bit disappointing as well...

I'm starting to wonder what CCI will be planning on doing if something can't be worked out...







chunks  :o
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: DaveG on August 27, 2014, 07:21:55 AM
I don't get the impression SDCC is seriously considering a move.  Their comments about continuing to work with nearby hotels for space seems to imply that they will leverage all available space to stay in San Diego.

I give CCI credit for their approach, but without a serious threat that they could leave there seems to be no urgency to expand the convention center.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Mel on August 27, 2014, 10:01:03 AM
I don't think SDCC is going anywhere. Glanzer is on record saying an expansion has never been a part of their decision and that they want to be in San Diego.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: ComicGirl on August 27, 2014, 02:15:52 PM
Well, that all but seals the deal. Nail in the coffin for San Diego. I'm guessing that Vegas and LA are going to start a full court press to get the show to their city.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Yzrfan on August 27, 2014, 02:39:27 PM
Who knows maybe instead of leaving they might flip flop SDCC and WCA


For over a thousand generations, the Comic Con Nerds were the guardians of peace and justice in the Old Republic. Before the dark times... before the Twilhearts
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Chris on August 27, 2014, 02:47:18 PM
How much bigger is Anaheim than San Diego?
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: alyssa on August 27, 2014, 02:52:22 PM
An interesting piece by the la times


http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-chargers-stadium-20140827-story.html
A decision Tuesday by the San Diego City Council appears to have given renewed life to a proposal by the Chargers football team for a new stadium near downtown.

But if the decision enhances the city’s chances of keeping the Chargers from moving to another city, it could do the reverse for the popular Comic-Con convention: increase the risk the annual pop-culture fest will leave San Diego.

After a closed-door session, the council voted 7-0 not to appeal a court ruling that had struck down the financing plan to expand the waterfront convention center.

The expansion plan was supported by Comic-Con officials who say they have outgrown the center and may need to leave San Diego in search of more convention space for vendors, zombies, comic-book fans and others drawn to the colorful convention.

The cities of Anaheim and Los Angeles have been mentioned as possible relocation sites.

The expansion plan had been opposed by the Chargers, who have an alternative plan that would include a stadium and an annex to the convention center. The project would be close but not contiguous to the current center.

After Tuesday’s vote, Mayor Kevin Faulconer said he wants to take a “fresh look” at ways to expand the convention center and also to build a stadium to keep the Chargers in San Diego.

For a decade, Charger ownership has urged the city to consider a new stadium to replace aging Qualcomm Stadium in Mission Valley.

Mark Fabiani, the Chargers' point man on stadium issues, said Wednesday that he and Chargers President Dean Spanos met recently with Faulconer to discuss “possible next steps.” The meeting, he said, “was productive.”

While the mayor is willing to look at the Chargers' proposal, it still faces major issues, among them, potential opposition from the politically powerful hotel industry, which preferred the plan that the City Council has now scuttled.

Also, getting a proposal past San Diego voters is also problematic.  “The public is the most important stakeholder,” Faulconer said.

The financing plan that was blocked by the 4th District Court of Appeal  was based on a novel way to bypass voters by instead asking hoteliers to increase the amount that patrons are charged. The court said the plan was a tax that should have been put before voters.

Faulconer said he has already begun meeting with the Chargers, hotel and convention officials, and representatives of a real estate firm.

On Sunday, during the Chargers game with the San Francisco 49ers, Fox Sports announcers praised the 49ers' new stadium in Santa Clara while bemoaning the fact that San Diego has not built something similar for the Chargers.

It would be a “shame” if the team was forced to leave San Diego, the announcers agreed.

If the Chargers are willing to continue discussions, so too is Comic-Con.

Comic-Con spokesman David Glanzler on Wednesday said that although the convention has "outgrown the current facility, the mayor, city officials, hoteliers and convention center staff have worked hard to mitigate our space concerns. We trust those entities will continue to work for a solution that can keep Comic-Con in San Diego for years to come."
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: DaveG on August 27, 2014, 03:26:01 PM
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Who knows maybe instead of leaving they might flip flop SDCC and WCA

I think you just hit on something.  They can leave SDCC in San Diego, just convince the networks and studios to move some of the more popular programming to Wondercon.  The may need to play with Wondercon's dates, but the crowds will follow their favorite movies/tv shows and SDCC will shrink to a level that the convention center and infrastructure can support.  If Anaheim can support the larger crowds, let them prove it.

CCI can always dangle the carrot that programming can move back to SDCC when San Diego has the facilities to support it, although if people find Anaheim a good location they may stay with Wondercon.  At least this way CCI can say they didn't move SDCC.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on August 27, 2014, 03:34:31 PM
Rarely ceases to amaze how the timely press coverage of news items about the expansion runs *laps* around the actual Convention Center doing the same -- on their own website:

http://www.conventioncenterexpansion.com/Default.aspx?tabid=94 (no "recent developments" worth noting since 12/5/13?)

or this: http://www.conventioncenterexpansion.com/

"Statement Regarding State Appeals Court Decision on San Diego Convention Center Expansion Financing
On Friday, August 1, the financing plan for the Phase III Expansion of the San Diego Convention Center was ruled invalid by a state appeals court. Despite the set-back, Mayor Kevin Faulconer, the business community and hospitality industry remain committed to the expansion of the convention center."

(a little bit better, but still, nothing worth noting since 8/1/14?  :o )

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How much bigger is Anaheim than San Diego?


Anaheim:

- "over 1.6 million square feet in the exhibit space"

- "prefunction areas total 200,000 square feet"

- "815,000 square feet of exhibit space, making it the largest exhibit facility on the West Coast"

- "meeting and ballroom space... totals 130,000 square feet"

From: http://www.anaheimconventioncenter.com/ and http://www.anaheimconventioncenter.com/Article.aspx?id=11


San Diego:

- "615,701 sq. ft. of exhibit space and  204,114 sq. ft. of meeting space including two 40,000 sq. ft. ballrooms. The center is home to 284,494 sq. ft. of prefunction, lobby and registration areas, as well as 184,514 sq. ft. of outdoor terrace space."

From: http://www.visitsandiego.com/resources/facilityguide.pdf#page=11

Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on August 27, 2014, 04:19:23 PM
That's an interesting idea: trying to shift some of SDCC's 'attractions' to WonderCon. I wonder if the studios will go for that?
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on August 27, 2014, 04:31:05 PM
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That's an interesting idea: trying to shift some of SDCC's 'attractions' to WonderCon. I wonder if the studios will go for that?

Agreed - - and the success of DaveG's idea depends upon how (and to whom of course) it's pitched, hopefully not with Mr. Rogers' oft-stated at Talk Back line, "we're at the mercy of the studios."
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Yzrfan on August 27, 2014, 05:10:28 PM

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How much bigger is Anaheim than San Diego?
don't know, but someone did  say the arena was bigger then Hall H.


For over a thousand generations, the Comic Con Nerds were the guardians of peace and justice in the Old Republic. Before the dark times... before the Twilhearts
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on August 27, 2014, 05:31:59 PM
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Agreed - - and the success of DaveG's idea depends upon how (and to whom of course) it's pitched, hopefully not with Mr. Rogers' oft-stated at Talk Back line, "we're at the mercy of the studios."

Although Anaheim does have one thing going for it: it's a LOT closer to Hollywood. I know the celebs sometimes get stuck in traffic coming down from LA to San Diego.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Louie_rob_m on August 27, 2014, 05:52:09 PM
I am assuming they are staying in sd for the foreseeable future. I would be up for it to be Anaheim though.  As long as they keep it in CA and stay away from holiday weekends (unlike wondercon on easter)
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Yzrfan on August 27, 2014, 05:55:59 PM
I'm sure if they brought the big show to Anaheim then they would have whatever week they would want.


For over a thousand generations, the Comic Con Nerds were the guardians of peace and justice in the Old Republic. Before the dark times... before the Twilhearts
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: tk415650 on August 27, 2014, 11:00:13 PM
I thought I saw Wondercon being mentioned and had to say can San Francisco please have its show back please?
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: dolphina on August 27, 2014, 11:02:25 PM
I know weather wise this past SDCC was unusual but it did make it rough being out in that heat walking to the Marriott or Hyatt to pick up my SDCC shirt or to donate blood. I know that CCI is trying to put events at hotels and theaters but if you are walking and it is hot outside it makes it kind of miserable to be walking around.
.Well we do know that at least for the next two years Comic Con will remain in San Diego so I'm just going to enjoy that knowledge for now. CCI has plenty of time to look at all the available options















Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: FBS on August 28, 2014, 12:24:56 AM
Only been to Anaheim once (this year for a day to Disneyland), but there didn't seem to be that much there.
San Diego is a city that you feel you can have a holiday in. I never got that feeling in Anaheim.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Miss Kitty on August 28, 2014, 08:32:13 AM
You are so right FBS, that the area isn't set up like the Gaslamp area is in SD. There's the shopping center a few blocks away and Downtown Disney, but other than that, not much else that is even close to the feel of SD.

SDCC isn't going anywhere. Trust me.

I can see them trying to bulk up WC, but it may take a few more years to get a warmer reception from the big companies (Hollywood). Anaheim is ticked off with CCI. They have been on hands and knees trying to get SDCC to move to Anaheim and CCI was like "How about we give WC a shot there and get our feet wet" with no intentions of ever moving SDCC there. Anaheim got miffed and said "yeah, how about Easter weekend?!" If CCI can't get a better weekend, the big companies will have a difficult time committing to WC.

Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Jim Watari on August 28, 2014, 10:07:21 AM
FYI the Anaheim convention center is expanding their space, it will be interesting to see how much WC expands there
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: ahbbb on August 28, 2014, 10:49:51 AM
The feel of SD or the feel of SDCC...
I guess it really depends on what facet of SDCC matters to you.
It's amazing how the 'party' aspect has come to matter to a segment of people/bloggers over the last 5 or 6 years.
SDCC was here before the bloggers and parties and will be here after the parties and bloggers go away.
Whether SDCC is in San Diego or Vegas or Anaheim  will not matter to most attendees other than the convenience of travel.
Most people are traveling anyway so that impact will probably be small.

I would like SDCC to stay in San Diego. I like San Diego but the time I spend doing San Diego stuff is before or after the con.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Mel on August 28, 2014, 10:54:50 AM
The weird thing is how the media (and people like us) are the ones who blow about SDCC moving when all CCI has ever said, when asked,  is that they are committed to staying San Diego. It's San Diego Comic-Con, it's started here, CCI is here......moving it defeats what it is.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: hikanteki on August 28, 2014, 11:16:47 AM
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The weird thing is how the media (and people like us) are the ones who blow about SDCC moving when all CCI has ever said, when asked,  is that they are committed to staying San Diego.

That isn’t quite all they’ve ever said--that’s what Glanzer said this time, but previous comments he made have left open the possibility of moving.

2008: “I have a feeling that staying in San Diego may not be as big an issue as it once was.” (Last sentence) http://variety.com/2008/scene/news/could-comic-con-leave-san-diego-1117989126/

2013: ""It could conceivably move," Glanzer said, "but the reality is: Do we want to move and do our fans want to move?” (3/4 of the way in) http://www.dailynews.com/general-news/20130721/comic-con-the-convention-that-swallowed-san-diego
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: DaveG on August 28, 2014, 12:11:47 PM
I really don't see SDCC moving anywhere in the near future.  Space will continue to be an issue and it may get worse before it gets better. 

I suggested they divert some programming to WC, but the reality is that they don't totally control that and with WC's current dates during Easter, I don't see any networks or studios willing to do that.  SDCC will always be popular, but the mega crowds are a result of fan bases descending upon SDCC to see the latest updates and stars of their favorite movies or television shows.  Nothing will really change unless the studios or networks perceive crowd control as an issue and pull back on their participation in the con.  Until then, all SDCC can do is react.

The convention center expansion is buried in politics and self-interest of various groups.  It's going to be buried in debate for quite a while.  No ground will be broken in 2015 and possibly not 2016.  I think the earliest we can see any relief would be 2018, but I wouldn't bet on it.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Yzrfan on August 28, 2014, 01:09:00 PM
Will it be the Los Angels Comic Con of Anaheim (LACCA), Anaheim Comic Con (ACC), keep it WonderCon Anaheim (WCA), or rebrand it to D23 since Disney owns almost all of Anaheim?


For over a thousand generations, the Comic Con Nerds were the guardians of peace and justice in the Old Republic. Before the dark times... before the Twilhearts
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: YouThinkMeMad on August 28, 2014, 01:10:51 PM
I mean, Marvel doesn't do WC now, why would they do it over all of this? They have no reason to.
Title: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: mattnathaniel on August 28, 2014, 01:31:25 PM
http://utsandiego.com/news/2014/aug/09/convention-stadium-options-jmi-chargers/

"The builders of Petco Park have unveiled a $1.4 billion plan that could produce more space for conventions and a new stadium for the Chargers at less cost than if built independently.

The plan, shared with U-T San Diego last week, comes just as city officials and the hotel industry are trying to decide what do about an Aug. 1 appellate court decision that threw the proposed $520 million San Diego Convention Center expansion into jeopardy. It also offers the chance to solve the Chargers’ objections to playing at Qualcomm Stadium. There are least five other alternatives available to the city.

JMI Realty, former Padres owner John Moore’s real estate company that oversaw the ballpark district master plan, has shared its ideas with the city, Chargers and other stakeholders, and plans to meet with other groups in coming weeks.

The JMI concept, with multiple options, may not please everyone, but if offers at least one way out of the legal limbo for the convention center, which tourism industry leaders say needs to be bigger to accommodate growing convention business.

“The bottom line is you can physically create a multiuse facility with the Chargers that would be incredibly sexy and attractive and the whole issue of conventions and the appetite for being in a building like that would be very high,“ said JMI President John Kratzer. “And I think the aggregate cost of doing that is going to be hundreds of millions of dollars less expensive,” he said.

The proposed sites are across the railroad tracks from the convention center, generally east of Petco Park.

Even before the court ruling was handed down, Kratzer had ordered up architectural studies and economic analyses three months ago to explore alternatives. The fundamental conclusion was that if expansion were impossible, a nearby annex could achieve many of the same goals, mainly more space than is currently available - and a new football Chargers stadium as well.

“From my perspective,” Kratzer said, “the real message here is we all need to lock arms and acknowledge that that bayfront project is perhaps doomed. I’m not sure if the city’s got some brilliant ideas on how to resurrect it, but the question becomes are there alternatives and the answer is yes.”

The downside of building an annex is that the city would not end up with 750,000 square feet of contiguous space that very large conventions desire - and from which convention groups get most of their revenue. The current exhibit halls encompass 525,000 square feet.

But the upside of an annex, Kratzer said, is that two conventions could be more easily accommodated at the same time. He also said the cost of both convention and stadium projects would be less than standalone facilities. His consultants estimate the current convention center expansion cost at $680 million - $160 million more than the current budget - and a Chargers stadium at $1.15 billion, not counting site acquisition and environmental cleanup. JMI did not ask its consultants for a financing plan, leaving that crucial detail to the city to work out.

Unlike an earlier Chargers proposal, the stadium playing field would not be designed to accommodate convention exhibitors but other aspects of the stadium could be designed for convention use and thereby save $400 million off the $1.8 billion pricetag for a stand-alone stadium and an expanded convention center.

Although convention planners prefer to keep their meetings at one location, Kratzer said Comic-Con International has proved it can successfully expand outside into surrounding Gaslamp Quarter hotels and open space.

“I think in our climate you’ve got a chance to turn something others view as a negative into a positive,” Kratzer said. “In a noncontiguous format, you’ve got the ability to spread the convention out and take advantage of San Diego’s greatest asset, which is the weather.”

JMI offered four scenarios for the city to consider and shared three new renderings and floor plans:

Annex: Build a convention center annex on Tailgate Park east of Petco Park and on part of the MTS bus yard. It would include the same 400,000 square feet in exhibit, meeting and ballroom space proposed in the current center expansion plan. The cost would be $457 million, $63 million less than the present expansion budget of $520 million and $123 million less than a new estimate of $680 million prepared by JMI consultants.
Annex-hotel combination: Restrict the annex only to Tailgate park, where a two-level exhibit hall would be built. Meeting and ballroom space would be included in the JMI hotel site. Cost estimate: $602 million. It's unclear whether enough room would be left over for a stadium immediately east.
Stadium and convention expansion: Build the Chargers stadium, as the team earlier proposed, and expand the convention center as currently approved. Combined cost: $1.836 billion, including the higher cost estimate for the center expansion.
Joint-use facility: Develop a joint-use facility with the exhibit hall below the football field and the meeting and ballroom space in an attached building with views of the field and bay. Cost estimate: $1.42 billion, $416 million less than two separate facilities.
Chargers counsel Mark Fabiani declined to comment publicly on the JMI plan. But he has repeatedly said the team hopes to work out a plan that would deliver a new stadium to the team - either at the present Qualcomm Stadium site or downtown.

City officials and hotel industry insiders also declined comment with the mayor’s office saying it is looking at all options, meeting with stakeholders and hoping to “create a path forward that will be broadly supported by the community.”

Cory Briggs, the attorney who won the appellate court case, still has two lawsuits pending against the California Coastal Commission for its approval of the convention center expansion based on environmental objections to expanding on the waterfront. He said he might support a plan that relocates the convention center expansion but complained critics like him have been excluded.

“When you refuse to negotiate and instead try to force something down the public’s throat, the public goes out and hires lawyers who know how to ferret out illegal manipulations, financing, planning etc.,” Briggs said in an email, “and those lawyers file lawsuits to make sure the law is followed and the public is protected.”

Joe Terzi, president and CEO of the San Diego Tourism Authority, said it’s too early to reject any alternative or to abandon the current expansion plan, which has been in the works for five years.

“It would be foolish at this point not to look at all potential options, including are there additional funding opportunities for the existing plan, including how to deal with the issue of a new stadium,” Terzi said.

Tom Shepard, the political consultant who worked on the 1983 and 1998 convention center ballot measures and the 1998 Petco measure, said the earlier efforts involved extensive outreach that resulted in ballot victories.

“If the mayor and other stakeholders commit themselves to an open process and can come up with a financing plan that protects the general fund and offers a vision for the public benefit beyond just having a sports stadium and a convention center expansion, I think San Diego voters will support it,” Shepard said.

Already, San Diego is likely to pay a price for further delay. Several groups had booked the convention center based on its expansion coming in 2017 or ‘18. Now, even if a new plan can be reached, completion might not come until 2020 or even later.

Negotiations are under way to extend Comic-Con’s contract beyond 2016 and groups, particularly high-spending medical conventions, wanting more space are being urged to stick with San Diego.

“But the likelihood of several of these making a decision to move elsewhere for their future conventions is pretty clear,” Terzi said.

Lynn Reaser, economist at Point Loma Nazarene University said San Diego’s tourism economy could weather the loss of a bigger convention center.

“We would still have a significant tourism business - it’s just not as large as it could be,” she said.

THE SIX OPTIONS AVAILABLE

- Appeal the court decision

The City Council has until Sept. 10 to file an appeal with the state Supreme Court, but it is unknown if the court would accept the case and how long it would take to reach a ruling. Meanwhile, other legal challenges could keep the project in limbo for years. Said Joe Terzi, head of the San Diego Tourism Authority: “I just don’t see where an appeal has a (good) chance,” he said. City Attorney Jan Goldsmith did not weigh the chances but he was not encouraging in his Aug. 4 memo to the council: “This court of appeal decision is the first appellate court ruling on the issue and is quite strong.”

- Seek voter approval of the hotel tax increase

It’s too late to place the measure on the Nov. 4 ballot but the city could hold a special election in 2015 or put the measure on the June or November 2016 ballot. However, voters could face other measures involving bonds and taxes, including a $1 billion city infrastructure bond question. Two-thirds approval of the current funding plan would be hard to achieve, convention backers conceded. But it’s possible a new financing plan could be prepared that would require a simple majority. The downside of further delay is that costs keep rising and ever more money would be needed to fill the gap. And there’s always a chance of more legal challenges.

- Develop alternative funding

Terzi thinks a larger convention center could boost annual hotel room taxes from the present $170 million to $250 million and the increase could be used to repay construction bonds for the project. The risk is that the increase might fall short of projections and the city would have to fall back on existing hotel tax revenues that support other city services. Heywood Sanders, a University of Texas professor of public administration and author of the recently released book, “Convention Center Follies,” said many cities have projected higher attendance revenue from expanded convention centers that never materialized. “You’re facing a situation where folks competing against you can simply outbid you,” he said.

- Drop the expansion and build an annex

This approach by JMI Realty would eliminate the environmental objections to expanding on the bayfront and potentially could be cheaper and less complicated. But it would not yield the larger 750,000-square-foot contiguous exhibit space that very large groups want in San Diego. It faces the same funding challenges as the present expansion plan and would require new design and environmental analysis.

- Forget the expansion

The city and convention goers would save money but San Diego would slip behind other convention cities that are expanding their facilities. Sanders, the Texas professor, said the convention business actually represents a rather small part of any city’s tourism business. “If the goal is to boost visitor activity, you can boost it conceivably with a new theme park.”

- Build a stadium whose field doubles as exhibitor space

That was the Chargers’ pitch when it proposed to divert convention center expansion tax revenues to a new downtown stadium. But convention planners said that approach would not appeal to groups because the location is several blocks from the present center and their schedules can’t be changed if an unscheduled sporting event, such as a Super Bowl playoff, intervenes. Some cities do use indoor playing fields for convention gatherings, but not often for exhibitors. One of the JMI choices would locate exhibit space below the playing field and meeting and ballroom space in an attached building."
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Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: mattnathaniel on August 28, 2014, 01:32:14 PM
http://utsandiego.com/news/2014/aug/09/convention-stadium-options-jmi-chargers/

"The builders of Petco Park have unveiled a $1.4 billion plan that could produce more space for conventions and a new stadium for the Chargers at less cost than if built independently.

The plan, shared with U-T San Diego last week, comes just as city officials and the hotel industry are trying to decide what do about an Aug. 1 appellate court decision that threw the proposed $520 million San Diego Convention Center expansion into jeopardy. It also offers the chance to solve the Chargers’ objections to playing at Qualcomm Stadium. There are least five other alternatives available to the city.

JMI Realty, former Padres owner John Moore’s real estate company that oversaw the ballpark district master plan, has shared its ideas with the city, Chargers and other stakeholders, and plans to meet with other groups in coming weeks.

The JMI concept, with multiple options, may not please everyone, but if offers at least one way out of the legal limbo for the convention center, which tourism industry leaders say needs to be bigger to accommodate growing convention business.

“The bottom line is you can physically create a multiuse facility with the Chargers that would be incredibly sexy and attractive and the whole issue of conventions and the appetite for being in a building like that would be very high,“ said JMI President John Kratzer. “And I think the aggregate cost of doing that is going to be hundreds of millions of dollars less expensive,” he said."
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Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Chris on August 28, 2014, 01:38:32 PM
I have to admit that the whole Charger thing irritates me at times when I hear that that is interfering with this.  But that is more from my own history with jocks picking on nerds more than anything else.

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Title: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: mattnathaniel on August 28, 2014, 01:46:17 PM
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How much bigger is Anaheim than San Diego?

Anaheim convention center is smaller than San Diego convention center


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Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: alyssa on August 28, 2014, 02:24:21 PM
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I have to admit that the whole Charger thing irritates me at times when I hear that that is interfering with this.  But that is more from my own history with jocks picking on nerds more than anything else.

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i don't know if that's more annoying or the fact that they want money that they're basically saying if they don't get their stadium we won't get the convention center. 
I certainly hope they can come up with their share of the money to build it
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Mel on August 28, 2014, 03:52:48 PM
I am very much against an annex. We learned this year that San Diego weather ain't all that anymore, it gets as hot here as anywhere else these days.

An annex, if it held enough good action, could cut down on some congestion though.
Title: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Yzrfan on August 28, 2014, 04:27:56 PM
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Anaheim convention center is smaller than San Diego convention center


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i know it's from Wikipedia, but San Diego Convention center has 615,700 square feet of exhibit hall floor and Anaheim has 815,000 square feet of exhibit hall floor. Yes San Diego is bigger when you include the ballrooms and other rooms, but Anaheim had a bigger exhibit hall.


For over a thousand generations, the Comic Con Nerds were the guardians of peace and justice in the Old Republic. Before the dark times... before the Twilhearts
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on August 28, 2014, 04:55:51 PM
I think another convention center across the street could definitely help cut congestion... but thats' not what would happen. CCI would sell more badges and, more people would be able to attend, and it would be just as crowded (but in more places) and it would be even more difficult to get hotel rooms.

This plan needs to include hotel expansions, like the old one did.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: DaveG on August 28, 2014, 08:49:15 PM
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I think another convention center across the street could definitely help cut congestion... but thats' not what would happen. CCI would sell more badges and, more people would be able to attend, and it would be just as crowded (but in more places) and it would be even more difficult to get hotel rooms.

This plan needs to include hotel expansions, like the old one did.

Absolutely agree.  More parking as well.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Zero on August 29, 2014, 01:19:39 AM
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Absolutely agree.  More parking as well.

More parking *structures* (versus parking lots) is something I would like to see happen in the future.  There isn't nearly enough parking around the convention center, but building up into a structure would benefit con-goers as well as staff or volunteers who need parking as well.

I'll admit that it's unlikely to happen, but if they had the space to do so, it would be a good idea.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Mel on August 29, 2014, 08:45:47 AM
They would only build more structures if they put a stadium. No need for using prime, limited real estate downtown for structures they only really need once a year.

I've been thinking about if they did move to Anaheim. Talk about inconvenient for hotels. Yeah alot of smaller motels around, but those are also all pretty full in the middle of Disney's busiest season, which is when Comic-con is held.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Zero on August 30, 2014, 10:53:11 PM
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They would only build more structures if they put a stadium. No need for using prime, limited real estate downtown for structures they only really need once a year.

I've been thinking about if they did move to Anaheim. Talk about inconvenient for hotels. Yeah alot of smaller motels around, but those are also all pretty full in the middle of Disney's busiest season, which is when Comic-con is held.

Exactly.  Parking structures are unlikely to happen, but I suppose ACE Parking can technically invest some of that (ridiculous) service fee money to build a parking structure using the land from one of their currently existing parking lots.... I'm sure a location close to the convention center would still sell out, and they can sell more passes that way.

*shrugs*

Ha ha.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on August 31, 2014, 06:36:34 AM
Maybe, instead of a new expansion, they can build a new parking garage on the roof of the convention center... and fix the Sails Pavilion at the same time!  ;D
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on September 05, 2014, 08:43:45 AM
From: http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2014/sep/05/kevin-faulconer-chargers-stadium/

(emphasis = mine)

Mayors and yours truly don’t break bread together. As a rule, we break up. Rather quickly. But the new guy at the top of City Hall, Kevin Faulconer, wanted to have lunch. Now, I’ve gotta eat and in the past had spent some pleasant moments with his honor while he was a councilman, so accepting the invitation offered a double serving.

And, yes, we did split the bill, thus avoiding a major scandal.

The mayor wanted to talk about a new Chargers stadium as a possible addition to the Convention Center. It was my alley. And Faulconer was right up it with me.

He wants to make something happen downtown. This being San Diego, he knows the degree of difficulty. But Faulconer seems very down to earth and honest as a politician can be. He cares. He doesn’t want his legacy to be the Chargers leaving town while he’s on the bridge. He realizes their importance to the community. He really wants to do something.

Refreshing.

We’ve heard similar words before. But Faulconer, on the job for five months, has met with Chargers boss Dean Spanos and Mark Fabiani, the team’s counsel on new stadium affairs, and it wasn’t an unpleasant experience. Plus, now that the contiguous Convention Center expansion has been ruled unconstitutional in federal court, he knows something has to be done to win this difficult two-front war.

“I look at it as an opportunity, particularly given the recent activity with the Convention Center” he was saying around a forkful of salad. “The Chargers have a major impact on the city and the region, and so would a Convention Center expansion. All kinds of cities are trying to steal away Comic-Con.

“So let’s put all of our options on the table. Is there a way to make synergy with both?”

The No. 1 question of course -- one that hasn’t been answered and wasn’t during our repast, either -- is: How do we pay for all this? Faulconer is doing his best to fill every pothole in the city and clean things up, but that’s not costing a billion-plus.

“We have to get together; we have to talk. Nothing gets done without dialogue,” he said. “I was a proponent of Petco. If it makes sense, San Diego will support it. That’s the message. It has to make financial sense. It’s never easy, but that doesn’t mean we have to shy away from the challenge.

“It starts with a willingness to engage. What are the other uses for the stadium? Look what happened with Petco. No way all that development happens without it. We have to solve this problem on my watch.

“With the energy produced by Petco, we’ve had a chance to kick the tires. We know what this can mean. It’s a challenge, but I believe this city is up to the task.”

Of course he does, and it’s nice to hear someone with muscle around here actually say it on the record, but once again, there will be opposition. Petco didn’t come easy, nor did the first Convention Center expansion. Delays caused by nuisance lawsuits involving those projects cost taxpayers hundreds of millions.

“The reality is, with the Convention Center issue before us, we have to create an opportunity and put together the hospitality and Chargers issues,” the mayor said. “How can we expand the Convention Center? We have groups that want to come here that are too big for our place. The advantage we have is that people want to come to San Diego.

“TOT (transient occupancy tax) is our third largest revenue generator after sales tax and property tax. I’ve been agnostic about the location of the stadium, but we can find something that works.”

Faulconer admitted Qualcomm Stadium is, well, not good.

“The city didn’t do a good job taking care of it,” he said. “We haven’t been good stewards of a city asset. There are so many quantifiable and intangible assets to the Chargers. Civic pride. When they play, you can feel it. It brings the community together. The Chargers are part of the fabric of who we are. And don’t forget the Aztecs.

“We need to have a civic conversation about this. If it goes to public vote, it will stand on its merits. I’m not interested in failure. These issues are solvable. But let’s have conversation. Let’s get the numbers.”

He finished with: “To be continued.”

Could mean another lunch. Or 10.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Chris on September 05, 2014, 08:47:58 AM
Something that I heard before, but wanted to ask:  Let's say the expansion had gone through, does SD have the hotel capacity to handle the additional attendees?
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on September 05, 2014, 09:06:09 AM
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Something that I heard before, but wanted to ask:  Let's say the expansion had gone through, does SD have the hotel capacity to handle the additional attendees?

The previous plan did include *some* hotel expansion, but not enough. Who knows what this new plan will have?

Azt, thanks for posting that article. It does seem that if the mayor supports it, the Chargers plan is where they are going. I can't help but think that this is only bad news for SDCC. (Of course, I'd love to be wrong about that...)
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Jim Watari on September 05, 2014, 10:16:11 AM
I think the overall effect of a new football stadium would be good because of the expansion to the east and the surrounding area

What do you think Chris?
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: ComicGirl on September 05, 2014, 10:38:29 AM
I live in San Diego and I can tell you there is not a lot of support for the Stadium plan. PetCo park was built with tax dollars, and the Padres suck. Their owner bullied the city into paying for a new stadium, but he won't put any money into team recruitment or top level players. It left a very sour taste in most of the voter's mouths, so unless the new stadium plan is going to be 100% privately financed, SD will never pass a ballot to fund a football stadium. Let LA have the Chargers.....
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Chris on September 05, 2014, 10:42:54 AM
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the Padres suck.

:)

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Let LA have the Chargers.....

Double :)
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on September 05, 2014, 12:50:44 PM
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I live in San Diego and I can tell you there is not a lot of support for the Stadium plan. PetCo park was built with tax dollars, and the Padres suck. Their owner bullied the city into paying for a new stadium, but he won't put any money into team recruitment or top level players. It left a very sour taste in most of the voter's mouths, so unless the new stadium plan is going to be 100% privately financed, SD will never pass a ballot to fund a football stadium. Let LA have the Chargers.....

Agreed.

Padres wanted a new stadium, went to the World Series (swept 0-4, but I digress), *boom* got new stadium on that euphoric voting bandwagon, not so great since. Chargers want a new stadium...  :o
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: cire_raeb on September 07, 2014, 10:30:32 AM
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I live in San Diego and I can tell you there is not a lot of support for the Stadium plan. PetCo park was built with tax dollars, and the Padres suck. Their owner bullied the city into paying for a new stadium, but he won't put any money into team recruitment or top level players. It left a very sour taste in most of the voter's mouths, so unless the new stadium plan is going to be 100% privately financed, SD will never pass a ballot to fund a football stadium. Let LA have the Chargers.....

The building of Petco Park helped revitalized the Gas Lamp and Downtown area of San Diego.  It brought a sense of civic pride and community that attracted families and economic development/ investment into a  blighted area that was once known for bars, drug dealings, and prostitution.  Suggesting that taxpayers got nothing in return and the owner of the Padre bullied the city  is myopic and lacking in good business acumen.
Title: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: ComicGirl on September 07, 2014, 12:31:26 PM
I respectfully disagree. The Gaslamp was revitalized long before PetCo Park arrived, and hosted world class restaurants and hotels. The true Gaslamp revitalization can be traced directly to the building of Horton Plaza and the revamp of the historic Grant Hotel, which occurred almost a decade prior to PetCo. It has not been known for "prostitues and drug dealings" for over 20 years now.

Additionally, PetCo Park has never hosted the World Series or brought in the millions of tourist dollars we were promised. I think a statement claiming that my vision is myopic would be best supported by studies showing the true fiscal impact on our beautiful city.  It has not brought jobs or dollars, but crated an overpriced housing market which sat empty for almost a decade. Speculative buyers snapped up million dollar condos which were far out of the median income price range. PetCo Park did nothing for 99%


"Theballpark has not created a wealth of new jobs. Only 29 more workers were employed in downtown in 2011 compared to 2004 - from 64,718 to 64,689."

http://www.ourcitysd.com/features/petco-parks-broken-promise

I don't think it takes an MBA to see that spending 300 million dollars of taxpayers money for 29 new jobs is a fruitless endeavor. The success of AT&T Park in San Francisco is a great example of how  everyone wins with PRIVATE funding.



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Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: retired on September 07, 2014, 02:14:06 PM
49ers let fans buy seats at the new Levi stadium to pay for a good chunk. If you own a seat you get first dibs on any event tickets at the stadium.  Imagine if the convadium did the same, but also included first dibs on convention events as we'll. guaranteed comic con badges each year? Yes please


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Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: jimy on September 16, 2014, 11:25:11 AM
From the San Diego Union today, never good news about the Convention Center:

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2014/sep/16/convention-center-budget-tough-to-find/?#article-copy

CONVENTION CENTER BUDGET TOUGH TO FIND


SAN DIEGO - Between a failed expansion-financing plan and tens of millions of dollars in deferred maintenance, the San Diego Convention Center may never draw more public interest in its business practices than it does today.
But the nonprofit arm of City Hall responsible for attracting conventions and tourists to San Diego no longer files a federal tax return available for public inspection.
Nor does the San Diego Convention Center Corp. publish a formalized budget that taxpayers - and even board members - can easily review to keep tabs on where the organization is spending its money.
“Why is this not disclosed somewhere?” asked attorney Cory Briggs, who last month successfully challenged the funding program for a long-planned expansion of the waterfront facility. “The public is the one footing the bill. The public is entitled to know.”
Federal tax filings typically show how much money a nonprofit pays its senior leadership and where it spends its tax-exempt revenue.
Because the convention center does not file a tax return, the public has no ready access to CEO Carol Wallace’s annual pay and benefits or the organization’s revenue, spending and governance policies.
Convention center officials said they asked the Internal Revenue Service to stop filing the forms after the 2010 tax year in order to save money and eliminate redundancies. Under IRS rules, nonprofits may apply for such exemptions if they are affiliated with a church or government.
They also said they post a wealth of budget and other records on the Internet and respond to any and all requests for information they receive from the public.
“Our new website provides current-year budget documents, annual reports and audited financial statements,” spokesman Steven Johnson said. “We provide comprehensive budget presentations to the city of San Diego and a copy of what we submit to the city of San Diego has now been added to our site, which provides additional budget detail.”
U-T Watchdog requested a copy of the organization’s budget in late August.
The initial response was a single-page document titled “FY14 Budget” that reported $33.2 million in revenue and $33.2 million in spending for the year ending June 30, 2014.
When pressed for additional information, Johnson provided a five-page document for the current fiscal year that shows $33 million in revenue and $31.9 million in spending. He said it was the official document approved by the board earlier this year.
On Friday, he released six more pages that outline revenue, spending, adjustments and some salary data. CEO Wallace was paid more than $370,000 in 2013-14.
The nonprofit also said Friday that it will post more budget documents on its website by the end of this week.
“There is a variety of formats and detail that is provided by different public agencies,” Johnson said. “This is the first time we have been asked to produce something more detailed.”
William Sannwald is a business and management professor at San Diego State University who previously was a top administrator at San Diego City Hall.
He said as public officials, convention center leaders are obliged to make spending records easily accessible and not release summaries piece by piece.

“They should have enough transparency so people know what’s going on,” Sannwald said. “They don’t have the kind of information available that people would want to examine.”
Convention center board member Stephen Cushman said that when he rejoined the panel two years ago, the first thing he did was request a copy of the budget. He was given an eight- to 12-page summary.
“It didn’t happen instantly, but I received the entire 144-page budget,” said Cushman, who previously served two terms on the convention center board. “I guess I was the first person who really asked for it.”
Cushman said he did not know why the extended spending plan is not widely available. “Anybody should have it that wants it,” he said. “The budget is a public document.”
The San Diego Convention Center opened along Harbor Drive in 1989 at 1.7 million square feet. From the beginning, it was set up to be run independently of City Hall.
Officials formed the nonprofit to manage the facility more like a business than a government service. It receives an annual subsidy from the city - $3.4 million last year - but the majority of revenue comes from rentals and concessions.
The convention center completed a major expansion in 2001, to 2.6 million square feet.
Within a few years, however, city leaders decided to grow the facility by about 33 percent to retain events like Comic-Con, which lures more than 100,000 people to San Diego each summer.
Meanwhile, attendance at the center has declined in recent years, dropping from 862,000 in 2009 to under 767,000 last year, annual reports show. Some of that decline may be due to slower growth in the wake of the 2008 global recession.
The nonprofit also spent down much of its reserves, which surpassed $8 million as recently as 2008. Much of those savings were spent planning for the latest expansion.
“We are working hard to rebuild those reserves,” Cushman said. “I think we’ve built it back to $2 million.”
The convention center also faces a $12.5 million loan payment next spring to Fifth Avenue Landing LLC for control of the proposed expansion site, according to its most recent audit.
In August, the board hired an Ohio-based consultant to study how much money they might collect from awarding naming rights to the facility to a for-profit corporation.
If the center is successful in attracting a sponsor, that agreement could generate funds to pay for some of the $40 million-plus in upkeep and repairs that has been put off for years.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: dolphina on September 16, 2014, 11:04:39 PM
Thanks for posting that article. Food for thought.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on November 17, 2014, 09:14:33 AM
But wait, there's more  :)

(hoping Mr. Glanzer might chime in here with an update on the Board meeting, perhaps? I know, definitely not, but I can dream)
(bold emphasis = mine)
(Con in November? Yeah, umm, no...)

From: http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2014/nov/14/hoteliers-mayor-seek-comic-con-deal/

With an expanded convention center now a derailed dream, San Diego’s hospitality industry is stepping up its efforts to entice its most beloved convention, Comic-Con, to stay in town through 2018.

Well aware that rival cities like Anaheim and Los Angeles still have a keen interest in luring a convention of Comic-Con’s size and worldwide stature away from San Diego, Mayor Kevin Faulconer is appealing to local hoteliers to hold the line on future room rates during the July meeting when demand for lodging is the highest all year and rooms the costliest.

He plans to attend Comic-Con International’s board meeting on Sunday to make a personal pitch to organizers and remind them how much San Diego values their annual meeting, which draws more than 130,000 attendees, fills hotel rooms countywide, and commands international media coverage.


Comic-Con International currently has formal commitments to stay in San Diego through 2016, but future years remain up in the air.

While no decision on a future Comic-Con contract will be made at the group’s board meeting, the city’s Tourism Authority, which is responsible for securing long-term bookings at the convention center, is hoping to finalize an agreement by the first of the year.

Toward that end, the tourism agency is currently seeking agreements from hotels in the Comic-Con convention room block to not raise their rates above 2016 levels for the years 2017 and 2018. It is not the kind of request that would be made for any other convention, no matter how lucrative, Tourism Authority CEO Joe Terzi said. During this year’s convention, discounted room rates ranged from a low of $161 a night to $380.

Of the more than 50 hotels in the 2014 Comic-Con convention room block, close to 30 have already signed agreements stipulating that for 2017 and 2018 they will not deviate from what they pledged for 2016, Terzi said. In addition, major waterfront convention hotels are committing to some free meeting space for Comic-Con events, and the center itself will adhere to a much discounted rent, which this year totaled nearly $200,000.

“Comic-Con has expressed concern over the last several years that it’s getting very expensive for their attendees to come to San Diego and while they recognize that they’re here at a premium time of year, they feel they’re being taken advantage of to a degree,” Terzi said. “I believe that Comic-Con is ours to keep but we can’t get too cocky and create an environment that doesn’t work for their customers.”

The latest effort to cement a deal with Comic-Con feels a little like deja vu. Four years ago, former Mayor Jerry Sanders, as Faulconer is doing now, pressured the city’s hoteliers to offer more competitive room rates as part of an ultimately successful bid to win Comic-Con’s business through 2015. At the time, Los Angeles and Anaheim were also heavily courting Comic-Con.

Terzi said he believes Anaheim has submitted a formal proposal this time around to Comic-Con, although the Anaheim Orange County Visitor & Convention Bureau would not confirm whether an offer has been made. Representatives from the Los Angeles Tourism and Convention Board declined to comment on Comic-Con.

“Comic-Con grew up here and is part of our San Diego family,” Mayor Faulconer said of the 45-year-old show. “There are a lot of other cities that would love to have Comic-Con there and continue to actively reach out, and we want to make sure we work very closely with Comic-Con on room rates and room blocks because if Comic-Con is not here it won’t help anyone and the hotels realize that.”

Although the always sold-out convention long ago outgrew the city’s bayfront convention center, organizers in recent years have increasingly taken advantage of meeting space at the waterfront hotels and other downtown venues to accommodate its attendees.

A long planned expansion of the convention center fell through earlier this year when an appellate court ruled that an already approved hotel tax to finance the $520 million project was unconstitutional.

Comic-Con spokesman David Glanzer, while unwilling to discuss negotiations, made it clear organizers would like to remain in San Diego, but there are a number of factors guiding their decision. An expanded center, though, is not a must for staying in their current home, he said.

“Some people had mistakenly implied that an expanded convention center would be the thing that solidified our decision to stay or go, but there are a number of factors to be addressed: hotel room rates, available space within hotels and outside the center, things that could mitigate the issue of having outgrown the convention center,” Glanzer said. “An expansion would be great for the city and us, but if it doesn’t happen we’ve been able to make do without it, and if we can mitigate the concerns we do have we’ll be able to stay here.”

Anaheim, which already is the site of Comic-Con International’s much smaller show, WonderCon, plans to break ground early next year on a 200,000-square-foot expansion, noted Jay Burress, CEO of the Anaheim Visitor & Convention Bureau. Completion is expected in 2017.

“We’re also adding 2,900 new hotel rooms and dozens of new restaurants are opening in Anaheim,” Burress boasted. “Comic-Con is one of the truly great shows in our industry, and any city would love to have a show of its magnitude. We’ll just leave it at that.”

Tuni Kyi, general manager of the bayfront Marriott Marquis and Marina, acknowledged that an agreement to keep room rates unchanged for Comic-Con is something the hotel would never do for any other large group.

“Every year, we’re going up 4 to 5 percent in our rates, but we’re doing what they’ve asked us to do,” Kyi said of Comic-Con. “They know we want them here, but nobody would get what they get.”

Some downtown hotels, though, are reluctant to join the convention hotel block, much less cap their rates because they’re able to command some of the highest rates of the year when Comic-Con is in town. Last July, when the county’s room rates are often at their highest, the average nightly rate countywide during Comic-Con peaked at more than $250, at least $80 a night more than the highest rates during the rest of the month, according to data compiled by Smith Travel Research.

“It’s much better not being in the room block during Comic-Con,” said Thomas Goodwill, general manager of the 190-room Porto Vista hotel in Little Italy. “For us as an independent we can get a lot better rates than the bigger hotels. Comic-Con would have a lot more room for negotiation if they moved it to a month like November.


Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: kohyuta on November 17, 2014, 09:39:55 AM
Thanks for posting that article AzT! I wonder if this has anything to do with the hotel deals we're finding on HotWire, Booking.com, etc currently? I never in my wildest dreams thought I could book the Omni for ~$200/night for SDCC, and yet it has happened (well, I'm still waiting to confirm with the hotel directly since I booked through HotWire). Needless to say, I'll be watching news about negotiations with CCI with an eagle eye, hoping that it remains SDCC for many years to come.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on November 17, 2014, 10:35:23 AM
That is a very insightful article. I agree that it seems like the downtown hotels are pushing back against CCI, either wanting to raise their rates or not be part of the con block at all. I recall there was one year the Hyatt wasn't part of the SDCC block (they had some other convention they were hosting for surgeons or something) but then the next year they were right back in. I have to wonder what incentives CCI offers. Is it simply 'we'll stay here if hotel rooms are cheaper'? They have to know that if they moved to Anaheim, the hotel prices would be through the roof there as well.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Jim Watari on November 17, 2014, 12:49:36 PM
As I remember Manchester Grand Hyatt had a major change in management and before that change the staff was just about hostile to the SDCC clients, I'm not kidding the stories were pretty bad
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Mel on November 17, 2014, 01:02:10 PM
Well, I'm guessing that Bayfront, Marriot and Hyatt make some nice bank from CCI using their facilities for things that don't fit in the CC....Indigo Ballroom, film festival, fullfillment room, volunteer center, ect. But not sure what keeps them loyal members of the hotel block other than the fact that if they don't, SD loses CC and there goes their Summer cash cow. Even if CCI doesn't use their facilities the studios do! That goes for so many downtown businesses and even office spaces. I met a guy once who worked for an insurance company one the second floor of one of the Gaslamp buildings and they rented their office space to some movie studio during CC and had the workers just telecommute that week.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: susanml10881 on November 17, 2014, 02:04:09 PM
I don't know if Anaheim will be that more competitive with hotels if they moved, especially during summer and right next to Disneyland practically. For Wondercon, they have three or four hotels available last year. Area hotels keep pretty busy with Disney vacationers. And only a handful of hotels are really close to the convention center. And LA is much worse. 
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Mel on November 18, 2014, 02:01:56 PM
Comic-Con in Anaheim would blow. A huge part of the charm and excitement of comic-con is its setting right on the bay and all the offsites throughout the marina and gaslamp. Anaheim is ugly and not suited for comic- con atmosphere. Not to mention all those hotels are plenty full already in the middle of Summer due to Disneyland.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: dolphina on November 18, 2014, 03:35:30 PM
For WonderCon Anaheim is more accommodating but as someone who paid the hotel bill when my son was at BlizzCon just a couple of weeks ago, I paid premium prices (1 night @ Hilton and 2 nights @ Sheraton) and I reserved as soon as the dates were announced. I really don't see Anaheim being all that accommodating, and how about parking, cause it is already bad and I just don't see the parking lots like I see in San Diego.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: TardisMom on November 18, 2014, 04:10:22 PM
There's something totally WRONG about cosplayers and comic fans walking along Katella Ave. with people in mouse ears and Pluto hats.  Some things just shouldn't be commingled.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Alvetica on January 16, 2015, 10:00:46 AM
Is it possible to get an expansion voted on with a simple majority instead of the 2/3 majority I keep hearing about?
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: hikanteki on January 16, 2015, 12:43:06 PM
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Is it possible to get an expansion voted on with a simple majority instead of the 2/3 majority I keep hearing about?

Not if it involves raising taxes.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: mdla on January 21, 2015, 06:30:31 AM
Well it seems as though Comic Con has at least heard proposals this time around, and Glanzer is listening now:

"The proposals we've received are pretty amazing," said David Glanzer, a spokesman for Comic-Con International. "It's not an easy decision."

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-comic-con-move-20150121-story.html
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on January 21, 2015, 08:14:06 AM
Thanks for posting that, Mdla! It's a very interesting article! I know I'm not as 'attached' to San Diego as some people, and based on the numbers (more hotel rooms and expanding the convention center) it looks like Anaheim might just be a possibility.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: semigeekgirl on January 21, 2015, 08:41:32 AM
That was an interesting article! I am definitely attached to San Diego, though. I guess I can't quite ever forget the shadow of the House of Mouse when I'm in Anaheim. And, as someone who lives in LA - just no. Downtown is definitely not ready yet, and nowhere near walkable enough.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: perc2100 on January 21, 2015, 11:16:32 AM
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There's something totally WRONG about cosplayers and comic fans walking along Katella Ave. with people in mouse ears and Pluto hats.  Some things just shouldn't be commingled.
That has been an odd sight for me the last few years as a Disneyland Annual Passholder and a WonderCon attendee.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: dolphina on January 21, 2015, 11:33:11 AM
Even though I am significantly closer to Anaheim than San Diego I still hope that Comic-Con stays in San Diego. I don't have an issue with cosplayers and comic fans walking with the people with Mickey ears and Pluto hats because we have that when WonderCon is there and even in November when Blizzcon comes to Anaheim, but with the number of tourists that are always in town for Disneyland I can't see Anaheim being able to block off enough close-by hotel rooms to serve the needs of Comic-Con attendees as well as Disneyland attendees. Add to that, the traffic in and around the Anaheim  Convention Center is already quite congested and there doesn't seem to be as many close-by parking structures/lots (that don't belong to Disneyland)available for off-site parking.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: epicaz on January 21, 2015, 11:43:56 AM
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Not if it involves raising taxes.

Amazingly enough, a hotel tax wouldn't even affect of those that live in SD, only those that stay in the hotels
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Mel on January 21, 2015, 11:48:33 AM
Not gonna happen. If it does I am shocked. Anaheim has 2,000 more hotel rooms, but how many occupied by Disney tourists and how many are actual Disney owned rooms? They pretty much get all 11,000 rooms in San Diego dedicated to SDCC staying here.....and as I said above, Anaheim is gross.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: hikanteki on January 21, 2015, 12:25:27 PM
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Amazingly enough, a hotel tax wouldn't even affect of those that live in SD, only those that stay in the hotels

That’s true. But SD residents seem to be very tax averse, even if they’re not going to be the ones paying it.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Andrew Costa Mesa on January 21, 2015, 02:35:14 PM
I hope they stay in San Diego, but if they do move, I would rather they pick L.A. over Anaheim because the L.A. Convention Center has more space than the Anaheim Convention Center.  I can just park my car in Long Beach and take the L.A. Metro Blue Line (light rail) direct to the L.A. Convention Center.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: lawboysam on January 22, 2015, 09:09:19 AM
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I hope they stay in San Diego, but if they do move, I would rather they pick L.A. over Anaheim because the L.A. Convention Center has more space than the Anaheim Convention Center.  I can just park my car in Long Beach and take the L.A. Metro Blue Line (light rail) direct to the L.A. Convention Center.

A breakdown of California convention centers by total square feet:
San Diego 2.6 million
Anaheim 1.6 million (but adding 220,000, so you can consider that 1.8 million if you want)
Los Angeles 0.86 million

That's just the convention center space - so ie, for San Diego, it doesn't include the area hotels CCI utilizes.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Chris on January 22, 2015, 09:13:58 AM
Do Anaheim and Los Angeles have the same potential for off site events as San Diego?

Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: kohyuta on January 22, 2015, 09:20:25 AM
I think one of the biggest advantages San Diego has is the number of hotel rooms within walking distance of the convention center. And though there would be a shuttle service in LA or Anaheim, San Diego's trolley plays a pretty big role in shuttling attendees as well. Other than Vegas, is there any other city with comparable convention space to San Diego?
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: lawboysam on January 22, 2015, 09:22:45 AM
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I think one of the biggest advantages San Diego has is the number of hotel rooms within walking distance of the convention center. And though there would be a shuttle service in LA or Anaheim, San Diego's trolley plays a pretty big role in shuttling attendees as well. Other than Vegas, is there any other city with comparable convention space to San Diego?

There is, but not in the area: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_convention_centers_in_the_United_States#By_size (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_convention_centers_in_the_United_States#By_size)
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: mdla on January 22, 2015, 09:24:52 AM
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Do Anaheim and Los Angeles have the same potential for off site events as San Diego?


Yes and no.  While LA would have nowhere near the same amount of "walkable" off-site events one could attend, there would be an infinite amount of places that could be used (as long as you have a car).  Also, I wonder if Comic Con might be able to reserve the nearby Staples Center as a "Hall H" replacement, as all the professional teams that play there (except for the WNBA franchise) would be in the offseason.

While it might be fun, I have to say that it would be less exciting than San Diego.  At SDCC, the entire city transforms for the event, and there's excitement wherever you go.  When you talk about E3 for instance... i'm sure right around the LA Convention Center is pretty exciting, but it's just one of many attractions in LA.  You move Comic Con there and you risk that it gets lost in the shuffle of the 1000 other things going on in the city at the same time.

Anaheim could be interesting, but I would have to imagine the off-site events would definitely suffer.  Besides Downtown Disney, I can't really think of any area that could cater to all the companies trying to promote out there (and even then Downtown Disney is extremely limited in what it can offer and still has to cater to its everyday Disneyland foot traffic).

EDIT: Oh and as for Vegas, I actually wouldn't be opposed to it except for the awful heat.  More convention space, tons of space for walkable off-sites at all kinds of fun places... but the heat is just so oppressive that I would guarantee that someone would get seriously dehydrated and sick (or perhaps even worse) within the first year or two.  Comic Con would almost assuredly have to be moved to March or April to accommodate.  You'd also lose the family atmosphere of SDCC as Vegas is a more "adult" town.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: semigeekgirl on January 22, 2015, 09:27:50 AM
I can't speak to Anaheim, but for LA it really depends on your definition of "potential".
There's a decent amount of unused retail space downtown, but most of it's not really walkable from the convention center/LA Live area. There are not a lot of flat open spaces downtown... Grand Hope Park, maybe, and Pershing Square... but Pershing Square is over a mile from the Convention Center. LA Live has a lot of upscale restaurant/bars that the studios could rent out for parties and events, but less space for "experiences". And nothing really makes sense walking from one area to another. I feel like an LA convention would end up with a lot of TRULY offsite events - i.e., come see our low budget horror movie (in Glendale!), and the Penny Dreadful seance room (in Hollywood!), and the Geek and Sundry installation (in Santa Monica!), and visit Nerd HQ (the Miracle Mile!). I'd hope not, but LA is soooooo spread out, I feel like you'd have to drive from one event to the next.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: kohyuta on January 22, 2015, 09:34:18 AM
Yup, it seems like it's tough to beat San Diego for:

- convention space
- # of hotel rooms within walking distance
- space for off-sites within walking distance
- transformation of downtown making it THE event for a few days
- tolerable climate

I agree with mdla, though Vegas (and Orlando) both offer tons of convention space & hotel rooms, the climate is a big negative, and the vibe would be different.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Chris on January 22, 2015, 09:40:34 AM
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- tolerable climate

How is Vegas in the winter?  If they move cities, there is nothing saying they couldn't move time of year. 
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: semigeekgirl on January 22, 2015, 09:50:42 AM
Vegas in in winter - cold, and WINDY. Difficult for cosplay, but not really unbearably cold.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Chris on January 22, 2015, 12:07:30 PM
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Vegas in in winter - cold, and WINDY. Difficult for cosplay, but not really unbearably cold.

Are there temperate months in Vegas?
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Zero on January 22, 2015, 12:10:56 PM
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Are there temperate months in Vegas?

Hm, I think early to mid-March or early April is nice in Vegas...  Feels kind of like spring in SoCal, ha ha.   *laughs*

Either cold, dry, and very windy in the winter, or super hot and dry in the summer, for the most part.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: vegasndn on January 22, 2015, 12:16:25 PM
Vegas is nice from October thru April it has some cold days but it's only a couple of days during Dec, Jan, and Feb right now it's 55 yesterday it was 64. I would like to see CCI stay in San Diego it's our summer vacation.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: mdla on January 22, 2015, 01:10:37 PM
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Hm, I think early to mid-March or early April is nice in Vegas...  Feels kind of like spring in SoCal, ha ha.   *laughs*

Either cold, dry, and very windy in the winter, or super hot and dry in the summer, for the most part.

The thing about that is though, if you move Comic Con out of the July slot you lose pretty much all of the TV shows that come because most shows have either just started or are about to start production.  Some might argue that's a good thing, but its something to keep in mind.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Zero on January 22, 2015, 01:12:45 PM
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The thing about that is though, if you move Comic Con out of the July slot you lose pretty much all of the TV shows that come because most shows have either just started or are about to start production.  Some might argue that's a good thing, but its something to keep in mind.

Yes, precisely.

(I wasn't even considering moving Comic-Con out of the month of July.  I like the general mid- to late July time frame.  I was simply answering Chris C's question in regards to the more favorable months, temperature-wise, for Vegas.  ^__^"  Sorry about the confusion!)
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: perc2100 on January 22, 2015, 04:25:35 PM
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That’s true. But SD residents seem to be very tax averse, even if they’re not going to be the ones paying it.

Have have voted for hotel tax raising several times in the years I've lived here.  That might be state-wide, so I could be a bit off.  But I know it comes up on the ballots and many locals I know have the mindset of, "heck yeah: tax the tourists!!" and then we all get pissed when we stay at Disneyland or San Francisco or something.  It's not unheard of, but it is a risky proposition as it's kind of the "all or nothing" option & if it fails there will be major problems (and politicians will see it as "well, the constituents are not concerned with an addition to the Convention Center").

FWIW I think a join Chargers/Convention Center addition is the way to go to try to appease most of us in the city.  The Chargers fans will vote for a new stadium, non-football fans may vote for the Convention Center, and we might all be happy.  Of course, maybe not.  It's a complicated issue.  I personally am a Charger fan, but I won't vote for a new Charger stadium to be built via my tax dollars before a Convention Center is being improved.  SDCCI alone brings in $100 million plus ANNUALLY to the city: more than a Super Bowl by many estimates.  I think that's more important to the city than the Chargers' stadium, though I do consider myself a Chargers fan (although ironically enough I won't pay to go to a Chargers game because the stadium is a dump - I will go see soccer games there, though they are typically much more reasonably priced).

I hope this will workout for San Diego, though it's hard to get a good, honest gauge with all the recent political rhetoric and hyperbole in the press
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on January 22, 2015, 04:38:33 PM
I just wish CCI would make a decision already, so we can stop all of the speculation!

And then, of course, no matter what it is, we will grumble about that decision.... ;)
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Jim Watari on January 22, 2015, 06:11:04 PM
Wow local news station channel 4 is now showing a story about Comic Con location battle between LA , Anaheim and San Diego
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Jim Watari on January 22, 2015, 06:12:36 PM
Of course the story lasted about 20 seconds
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: dolphina on January 22, 2015, 06:16:56 PM
Channel 11 (Fox News) had a story about it to even showing footage from SDCC and that was this morning during the 7am broadcast  ;D
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: jristen on January 22, 2015, 06:22:54 PM
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Do Anaheim and Los Angeles have the same potential for off site events as San Diego?

I can't speak for Anaheim but I work right next to the LA convention center and the area really has improved in the last couple years. Within the Convention Center/LA Live space (and I'm assuming that LA Live would be a part of whatever negotiations go on for the Convention Center), they have four hotels (JW Marriott, Ritz Carlton, Luxe, and Courtyard), Staples, Nokia theater, and the Nokia Live Theater. Staples has lots of smaller rooms that I imagine could be negotiated - as well as their whole floor. There's conference rooms in the JW Marriott, similar to the Hilton Bayfront. And there's a movie theater next door that I suppose could be used as well. There's also a few spaces at LA Live (above the Conga Room for example) that are already frequently used for events/panels.

Nokia theater (7,100 capacity) could actually be retrofitted for a decent Hall H, if they thought Staples would be too big (or they wanted to use the floor of Staples as an exhibit hall). and Nokia live could be a replacement for Ballroom 20 (2,200 capacity).

If they used the Nokias for the big halls, the lines for them would be at LA Live - which is significantly safer (and prepared) for massive lines gathering for extended time periods than a normal LA street.

All this being said, I'm really attached to San Diego. ;)
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: tehlilone on January 23, 2015, 07:20:36 AM
I'd imagine that's going to cost a lot more. It'd be interesting to see how much each city is offering CCI. CCI never used Petco because of cost & the logistics headache regarding security and all of that. Wonder if LA is offering LA Live facilities on their proposal.

Personally, I have issues with Anaheim and Los Angeles. I don't like going there for other conventions actually.

It's teh lil one! Sent while on the move!!

Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: hikanteki on January 23, 2015, 10:19:58 AM
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A breakdown of California convention centers by total square feet:
San Diego 2.6 million
Anaheim 1.6 million (but adding 220,000, so you can consider that 1.8 million if you want)
Los Angeles 0.86 million

That's just the convention center space - so ie, for San Diego, it doesn't include the area hotels CCI utilizes.

I’m looking at the Wikis, but things don’t add up -- SD is listed as having 615,700 sq ft exhibit hall, 123,400 sq ft breakout/meeting, and 80,700 sq ft, for a total of 819,800 sq. ft. So where do they get 2.6 M from? Is it just space where people can stand around?

To contrast, Anaheim is listed as having 815,000 sq ft exhibit hall, 200,000 sq ft breakout/meeting, and 130,000 sq ft ballroom, for a total of 1,145,000. That still isn’t the 1.6 M listed, but it’s less of a difference.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Diego_Convention_Center
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anaheim_Convention_Center
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: tehlilone on January 23, 2015, 10:23:30 AM
One thing Wikipedia doesn't say is that hallways are more narrow and make line management hell. The flow of people getting out of the rooms goes directly into the flow of people trying to get into the rooms because of where the escalators/elevators are placed.

It's teh lil one! Sent while on the move!!

Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: tehlilone on January 23, 2015, 10:32:33 AM
This was the main ballroom that they used in 2012 for WonderCon on the third floor. Remember this was 3 years ago.

(https://www.friendsofcc.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftapatalk.imageshack.com%2Fv2%2F15%2F01%2F23%2Fc9de7266fec69a4f834c2133e3c62b33.jpg&hash=1ffa0b2346d51410ff5ebb2818a9d81148ecee58)

As more people came
(https://www.friendsofcc.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftapatalk.imageshack.com%2Fv2%2F15%2F01%2F23%2F134e8dc751ae9ad66c42b64ce574a6bd.jpg&hash=f2b2815b81b27df56067ef5958ef7e3a5552d262)

Looking behind where I was standing
(https://www.friendsofcc.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftapatalk.imageshack.com%2Fv2%2F15%2F01%2F23%2F72fad1b0545983303d43cb70ba4ca270.jpg&hash=457dc4341eafd18bed3a8014b765b85243940a50)

Those doors on the right was where people exited. The place people entered was a door around the corner.

It's teh lil one! Sent while on the move!!

Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Chris on January 23, 2015, 10:33:40 AM
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I’m looking at the Wikis, but things don’t add up

I've tried that before, but found the same thing you did.  It's hard to get an exact answer.  :)
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: dolphina on January 23, 2015, 05:19:17 PM
David Glanzer responds to SDCC relocation.

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2015/01/23/comic-con-leave-san-diego-dont-believe-hype/



We asked Comic-Con’s David Glanzer to give his own response to Cameron’s article. He told us:

The recent LA Times article discussing our ongoing contract negotiations to keep Comic-Con in San Diego seems to have generated a lot of buzz.

Hopefully we can lay to rest some of the more speculative aspects of the current reports. Firstly, Comic-Con is not making any threats to relocate to any other city. When each contract term comes up we negotiate to try to get agreements that will best benefit the organization and our attendees. Other cities keep track of this schedule and some submit their own proposals. I should point out that each city has its own challenges but each proposal received by us have been concise, detailed and show a great understanding of our event and willingness to work with us to meet the needs of our event.

Out current dilemma is very simple. We are confronted with a lack of space and expensive hotel room rates for our attendees. Currently, due to space limitations within the Convention Center, Comic-Con has implemented a cap on attendance as well as exhibitors. We are grateful for the support of our local hoteliers and city who have allowed space at local hotels and parks for interactive exhibitions by some of our exhibitors and program participants.

We were born in San Diego, we would love to stay in San Diego however we must make a decision that is ultimately beneficial to our attendees because without them, there would be no show. It is for this reason that we will continue the negotiation process in earnest, or until such time as negotiations reach an impasse.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on January 23, 2015, 09:33:28 PM
That's a great statement that says nothing. He admits there are issues in San Diego, and that there have been some other good proposals, and that they are still 'negotiating' with San Diego. There is no firm statement as to where their head is at.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: dolphina on January 23, 2015, 09:48:28 PM
A good example of saying something without saying a thing. LOL
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: hikanteki on January 24, 2015, 08:12:05 PM
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A good example of saying something without saying a thing. LOL

Yep. Typical Glanzer form.

If anything, he may be trying to prevent rumors of CCI definitely leaving SD. But I haven't heard of anyone actually saying that, so far.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Mel on January 24, 2015, 08:46:08 PM
If it leaves, I would be devastated. I'd be curious to see how it goes if they did move it. What makes SDCC so special is the location, imo.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: alyssa on January 25, 2015, 06:56:17 AM
this is a topic for todays Hangout with an englishman.... 
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: mdla on January 28, 2015, 11:44:52 AM
Apparently Variety Senior Editor Marc Grazer heard that "L.A. was so bent on luring the event away from San Diego that they offered to host the event for $1."

http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2015/01/22/effort-to-relocate-comic-con-from-san-diego-could-spell-out-big-business-for-la/#.VMC3GgsTEb8.twitter
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: dolphina on January 28, 2015, 11:47:59 AM
Loved the article.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Chris on January 28, 2015, 11:53:19 AM
"Many people camp out overnight to get a ticket."   Er?   :o
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on January 28, 2015, 12:04:16 PM
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"Many people camp out overnight to get a ticket."   Er?   :o

Well technically that was true a few years ago, the last time they had onsite pre-reg. ;)
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: semigeekgirl on January 28, 2015, 12:05:12 PM
Also, "attendees racked up $61,000 hotel nights". What?
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on January 28, 2015, 12:06:17 PM
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Also, "attendees racked up $61,000 hotel nights". What?

I think they pay their proofreaders $1.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: mdla on January 28, 2015, 12:16:32 PM
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Also, "attendees racked up $61,000 hotel nights". What?
Yep as someone in the comments pointed out, they must have meant 61,000 hotel rooms.  It puts into question the validity of the article a bit, but still found it worth passing along.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Mel on January 28, 2015, 12:19:29 PM
I don't remember this being as blown up in the media before. Some serious PR games are going on.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: semigeekgirl on January 28, 2015, 12:49:03 PM
I remember a fair amount of articles about it 2012, the last time the contract was about to run out.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: DaveG on January 28, 2015, 12:52:30 PM
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Yep as someone in the comments pointed out, they must have meant 61,000 hotel rooms.  It puts into question the validity of the article a bit, but still found it worth passing along.

Or they hit shift by mistake and meant 461,000 hotel nights.  Who knows? 

Yeah, this just seems like a way to try and generate some interest.  I sure wish San Diego would fight a little harder to keep SDCC and actually do something about the convention center.  As it stands now, the only way anything is going to get done is if they partner with the Chargers and the NFL.  I hate that the expansion will cater more to their needs, but I guess we have to take whatever we can get at this point.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on January 28, 2015, 01:47:43 PM
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Or they hit shift by mistake and meant 461,000 hotel nights.  Who knows? 

61,000 sounds about right. I've heard the stat that San Diego has 10,000 downtown hotel rooms. Add in some outlying rooms in mission valley and such to get to 15,000. Multiply by a 4 night stay and you're at 60,000. Now obviously some people stay longer, but 61,000 is in the ballpark of hotel room nights that I would expect.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Mel on January 28, 2015, 04:32:03 PM
Well San Diego was trying, expansion was set, then the Chargers got a lawyer to challenge the legality of the hotel tax that was gonna pay for expansion. It's slowly really making me hate the Chargers and the Spanos family.....and I was a pretty big Charger fan, but eff them. Seriously. Build your own damn stadium and stop sabotaging the CC expansion.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: karl clement on January 28, 2015, 05:37:09 PM
if they do the expansion with the Chargers, it could be a win/win for all sided, added parking close by, the new stadium could have usable space, or a place to line up for hall H, if the stadium is covered it could be used as a mega hall H, or to run the mtv event,  football season does not start till after SDCC
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Chris on January 28, 2015, 05:47:07 PM
Would CCI use the space?  They don't use Petco.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on January 28, 2015, 06:00:42 PM
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Would CCI use the space?  They don't use Petco.

The 'excuse' for not using PetCo is that it is outdoors. If there were a covered stadium, they might change their tune.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: mdla on January 28, 2015, 06:55:13 PM
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The 'excuse' for not using PetCo is that it is outdoors. If there were a covered stadium, they might change their tune.

I doubt they would make it indoors. It would increase the cost of any stadium dramatically and the weather in SD does not necessitate it.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Mel on January 28, 2015, 07:35:34 PM
A covered stadium in San Diego would be a bad mistake and a waste of money.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: angel_k on January 28, 2015, 10:18:30 PM
Not that my single opinion matters, but I think of the three main options of moving (LA, Anaheim, Las Vegas), LA makes the most sense.  It has stuff to do around it, lots of space, and isn't oppressively hot.  Vegas would be perfect if it weren't for the damn heat.

All that said, I somehow feel that even though they keep saying the expansion has no bearing on them moving, all this fuss is some sort of behind the scenes PR push to make it happen.  I love San Diego but all this political bull crap is getting to me.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Louie_rob_m on January 30, 2015, 09:27:44 AM
I really hope they can make it work to stay in san diego, i just personally love the location.

My next vote would be Vegas, if they really had to move. If space is the issue for moving, then that convention center is massive - they can go up to 200k attendees. Would be much better on space.

I know,  i know, the weather. I imagine cci would prefer to stay in ca as well.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: karl clement on January 30, 2015, 03:13:16 PM
the  only advantage of vegas would that CCI might have a better time getting a deal on hotels, and increase the numbers of people able to go
downfalls : weather, waiting outside would be an issue outside, unknown transportation system,

I would prefer Vegas over LA, Disney town has too many Disney issues


Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: alyssa on January 30, 2015, 03:35:24 PM
imo, the real issue with Vegas is the distance from LA, isn't it like 6 hr drive from LA?
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: karl clement on January 30, 2015, 04:26:16 PM
yes it may be , but great for flights in and out

LA has so many safety issues, yes they have cheap hotels but in areas I would send my worst enemy, they have a great public transit, with people trying to cut costs people would unknowingly put them self at risk
places like this group can inform people about san diegio, we know the city, LA is a black hole
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on January 30, 2015, 05:54:45 PM
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imo, the real issue with Vegas is the distance from LA, isn't it like 6 hr drive from LA?

Yes, but flights are cheap to Vegas and it is a Southwest hub. I don't think distance is as much of an issue as the weather.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Louie_rob_m on January 30, 2015, 09:37:13 PM
If they can figure out how to manage lines indoors, I dont think weather will be a big issue.  Vegas is setup with that in mind - everything is indoors and air conditioned.

Disclaimer- i live in phoenix and probably have a higher tolerance ;)
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: angel_k on January 31, 2015, 01:31:25 AM
If they can keep things indoors Vegas would be the best.  Hotels are hella cheap.  Space is huge.  TONS of stuff to do around the area.


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Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on January 31, 2015, 07:17:39 AM
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If they can keep things indoors Vegas would be the best.  Hotels are hella cheap.  Space is huge.  TONS of stuff to do around the area.

And cheap, direct flights, plus lots of great food options!
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Mel on January 31, 2015, 09:09:45 AM
You guys are depressing me. Las Vegas is the most depressing trashiest scam hole in the world. My con spirit would be sucked dry there.

Vegas is the only place if they moved I would for sure be done with the Con.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: angel_k on January 31, 2015, 12:02:27 PM
It's not like you'd have to visit the trashy parts.  I've been to Vegas lots and always stick to the fun parts only.


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Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: dolphina on January 31, 2015, 12:36:06 PM
Even at night Vegas is hot in the summer and if you have to line up outside it wouldn't be fun. Plus if you are cosplaying and having to walk to the convention center you could be miserable by the time you get there depending on your cosplay outfit.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: hikanteki on January 31, 2015, 09:19:34 PM
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Even at night Vegas is hot in the summer and if you have to line up outside it wouldn't be fun.

Good. I'll support moving to Vegas if it stops people from lining up days ahead.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: angel_k on February 01, 2015, 01:30:27 AM
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Good. I'll support moving to Vegas if it stops people from lining up days ahead.

Haha. But let's be real, we'll do it anyway. And we'll get heat stroke. 
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Louie_rob_m on February 01, 2015, 12:41:01 PM
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Haha. But let's be real, we'll do it anyway. And we'll get heat stroke.
Totally true! Being real - majority (probably almost all) of forum members will arrive at either destination cci chooses regardless.  The only real question is scoring the badge.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Chris on February 01, 2015, 01:19:18 PM
My opinion only.

I think the travel distance is more influenced by how far the A-list celebrities have to go.   They don't get their A-listers and the CCI brand name suffers.

SD is a short rental bus ride for them (like AoS and I think Lost on the DVDs) whereas Vegas would be a longer bus ride or a flight.  Studios seem notoriously cheap with airfare from what I have seen. 

My opinion only.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on February 01, 2015, 05:54:23 PM
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My opinion only.

I think the travel distance is more influenced by how far the A-list celebrities have to go.   They don't get their A-listers and the CCI brand name suffers.

SD is a short rental bus ride for them (like AoS and I think Lost on the DVDs) whereas Vegas would be a longer bus ride or a flight.  Studios seem notoriously cheap with airfare from what I have seen. 

My opinion only.

That is a very good point, Chris. Although Vegas isn't that far, and I suspect the celebs would generally enjoy spending time there so I don't think it's that big a deal for them. But the studios footing the bill.... yeah, that's another story.

I find the suggestion that CCI might switch the locations of WonderCon and Comic Con to be an interesting one.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: angel_k on February 02, 2015, 02:21:56 AM
Vegas might be further, but not by much.  Maybe a couple of hours more, and hotels would probably be cheaper.  Hotels in Vegas can be stupidly cheap comparably so the studios would probably make up the money there.  Airfare from LA to Vegas is also extremely cheap.  Not sure if it's cheaper to San Diego, but there are deals all the time because Vegas is basically southern Californians playground.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: karl clement on February 02, 2015, 03:53:35 PM
it wont be SDCC with out san diego, that's the big issue, any form of change will change the whole event, if you went 10 years ago today , same hotels same everything, change just makes me sad
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: perc2100 on February 03, 2015, 09:22:27 AM
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it wont be SDCC with out san diego, that's the big issue, any form of change will change the whole event, if you went 10 years ago today , same hotels same everything, change just makes me sad

And the only real "change" will be more people attending.  While that is a good thing, I don't know if that's enough of a change to merit a move that would fundamentally change the Convention.

I wonder how much of this is just politicing for CCI to get sweetheart deals (that I'm 100% with them getting) from the city & hoteliers: i.e. using the move as leverage to get cheap rent & hotels.  Hanging out at NAMM a few weeks ago in Anaheim, which has 90k attendees according to their website (far fewer than SDCCI), I really don't think that town can handle SDCCI.  Even convention center & parking employees were pretty clueless as far as people/traffic flows and giving basic directions such as "where do I go to park."  Add peak Disneyland business season and I think it would be a real nightmare.
I don't know much about L.A. or Vegas situations, and while Vegas has at least double the convention space Vegas in mid-July would SUCK, and is NOT family-friendly; I was there on a Wed. afternoon in November a few years ago and had to explain to my son, who was 10 at the time, what all of the call-girl leaflets being handed out & littering the sidewalks + all of the creepy fake celebrities wanting $$ for pics meant.  I think CCI moving to L.A. is the longest-shot.

Hopefully this all works itself out + San Diego removes their heads from rear-ends to approve convention center expansion sooner than later.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: RustyPonds on February 03, 2015, 11:43:12 AM
Yes, that's exactly what it is: Politicking.

There is absolutely no way SDCC leaves San Diego. The whole culture and "feel" of the event is intertwined with that city. And as people have stated, CCI has to use the idea of moving as leverage. But they have said their main concern, when it comes down to it, is rising attendee cost, not expansion.

Now, being a non profit with the goal of "creating awareness of, and appreciation for, comics and related popular art forms," having more floor space would allow more people to take part, but 130,000-150,000 seems just about right.

You don’t need to be the biggest to be the best. In fact, I think it can be argued that those are inversely proportional after a point.

And about the Hotel Tax/Convention Expansion situation; It's easy to vilify this issue (especially when you bring in the Chargers and SDSU interest groups), but I think it's a very valid issue. San Diegans helped build these hotels with their tax money, so how their investments decide to spend additional taxes is their concern, even if they themselves might not be taxed.

Real Talk: Yes, conventions are cool, but so are schools, roads, and other public services.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: perc2100 on February 04, 2015, 08:13:09 AM
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Real Talk: Yes, conventions are cool, but so are schools/roads, and other public services.

That's mostly where I'm at, especially with The Chargers.  Here in CA our education ranks low, as does our per-pupil spending: I'm much rather pay higher taxes for education than for, say, millionaire owners of the Chargers to become billionaires.  That being said the convention center brings money into the city which does go towards funding other public interests so I think a convention center expansion is in the best interests of the city.  Of course, I'm clearly biased  :P
I do hope it all works out in the end (and by "works out" I mostly likely mean "stays in San Diego for my own personal amusement")
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: hikanteki on February 04, 2015, 12:27:30 PM
If the primary motive for moving is to allow more people to attend the convention, then IMO the only place that makes sense of the ones mentioned is Vegas. Vegas clearly has more space for everything as well as a bigger convention center. Hotel rooms would also likely be cheaper, although if CCI:SD becomes CCI:LV, I don’t expect the price reductions to be drastic because they already know that people have paid high prices for CCI hotels in the past.

But last time, Vegas wasn’t name-dropped as a city that put in a bid, whereas Anaheim and LA were. Is it the same this time?

However, if what CCI is really after is a better deal for themselves (a la WonderCon) then all bets are off on Vegas. Between Anaheim and LA, I think LA could handle it better. LA doesn’t have as many hotel rooms within walking distance, but downtown LA is served well by their subway. People could stay elsewhere in the city or county; there are plenty of rooms that are an easy ride away. Also, downtown LA is a great place to explore. Anaheim CC may have more panel space but I don’t think Anaheim or OC for that matter has the infrastructure.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: mdla on February 04, 2015, 01:20:35 PM
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If the primary motive for moving is to allow more people to attend the convention, then IMO the only place that makes sense of the ones mentioned is Vegas. Vegas clearly has more space for everything as well as a bigger convention center. Hotel rooms would also likely be cheaper, although if CCI:SD becomes CCI:LV, I don’t expect the price reductions to be drastic because they already know that people have paid high prices for CCI hotels in the past.

But last time, Vegas wasn’t name-dropped as a city that put in a bid, whereas Anaheim and LA were. Is it the same this time?

However, if what CCI is really after is a better deal for themselves (a la WonderCon) then all bets are off on Vegas. Between Anaheim and LA, I think LA could handle it better. LA doesn’t have as many hotel rooms within walking distance, but downtown LA is served well by their subway. People could stay elsewhere in the city or county; there are plenty of rooms that are an easy ride away. Also, downtown LA is a great place to explore. Anaheim CC may have more panel space but I don’t think Anaheim or OC for that matter has the infrastructure.

The amount of space in Vegas is just insane.  I was walking around the Aria the last time I was there, and there was literally three floors of meeting spaces in there.  If CCI wanted to apply the "use the whole city model" to Las Vegas, there would be a ridiculous amount of rooms on the strip that could be used.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: karl clement on February 04, 2015, 05:18:05 PM
I worked in comic book store from 1984-89 I remember seeing the adds for SDCC even the. It was the event to go too. I remember reading the reviews and reading all the fun stuff about the show. It was always San diego. I always said I wanted to go and finally in 2013 I was able to go. It lived up to what I read about. I think people in San Diego realize how much this event is San Diego or how many people would go back to visit after Con season to visit. I do not think the city really understands what would happen if SDCC moved. I just think if it moves it will not be SDCC anymore, it will not have that same ... anything. Moving would make it no different then any other con, there is so much history , San diego is like the Rome, the Vatican for comics.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: vegasndn on February 13, 2015, 11:39:38 AM
 Article in the local paper today on the Las Vegas Convention Visitors Authority plans of buying the Riviera casino and putting in additional convention space and this will be on the strip obv. I think SD could lose comic con to Vegas. I know it's summer and it's hot but with additional space there won't be too much standing outside time.
 LVCVA having all that money to be buying up land and adding space I'm thinking they might offer CC a lot of money. Maybe too much to turn down. I like going to SD for vacation but I wouldn't mind it here in LV. I'm hoping that there is some sort of expansion in SD too keep comic con there http://is.gd/OfVr93
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: DaveG on February 16, 2015, 12:56:52 PM
Saw this article today

http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/san-diego-chargers-keep-eye-on-los-angeles-nfl-stadium-developments-021615

Looks like the Chargers are starting to play hardball.  But also notice that they're looking for something on the November 2016 ballot.  If they continue to link the fate of the Chargers with the convention center, then they wouldn't even break ground until 2017 at the earliest.  Don't they have a lot of major expenses upcoming just to keep the current convention center functional?  I thought I read somewhere that the sails pavilion was in dire need of some repair.  Bad enough they have to continue to deal with the current space.  Imagine if they start to lose existing space due to needed repairs.  And if they do wait until 2016 for a political solution, they'll have new elected officials and probably need to start all over again.  Wow...just wow.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Mel on February 16, 2015, 05:05:41 PM
Man so tired of Chargers tying this up. It's like me trying to get the city to buy me a house.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Chris on February 16, 2015, 06:03:49 PM
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Man so tired of Chargers tying this up

::Hammers the like button::

Gah!  Sports!
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Mel on February 19, 2015, 09:00:01 PM
Chargers officially jumping the shark on this one. I hope it happens. It's a big scare tactic and threat, but I hope we let them go. Be done with this so they stop blocking CC expansion.
http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/Chargers-Raiders-Plan-Joint-Stadium-in-LA-292815211.html
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on February 19, 2015, 10:00:45 PM
Actually, I kind of hope that plan works, because I would love to get rid of the Raiders!  >:D
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: DaveG on February 20, 2015, 02:39:35 AM
If nothing else, maybe they can at least make a decision and move forward.  The longer they wait the more people that have weigh in on the issue, political offices changes hands and we start all over again.  And if the Chargers expect tax money to help with the stadium, won't they have to get that on a ballot and get two thirds majority approval?  Isn't that what killed CC expansion plans?  Good luck doing that before the end of the year.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Chris on February 20, 2015, 06:57:02 AM
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Chargers officially jumping the shark on this one. I hope it happens. It's a big scare tactic and threat, but I hope we let them go. Be done with this so they stop blocking CC expansion.
http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/Chargers-Raiders-Plan-Joint-Stadium-in-LA-292815211.html

Didn't the Raider and Rams have  a join stadium in LA and that worked out so well?   (Not sarcastic with you, sarcastic with the artible). 

I think I just sprained my brain talking sports--I'm going go ice it.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Jim Watari on February 20, 2015, 08:56:26 AM
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Didn't the Raider and Rams have  a join stadium in LA and that worked out so well?   (Not sarcastic with you, sarcastic with the artible). 

I think I just sprained my brain talking sports--I'm going go ice it.

Well that was the old LA Coliseum downtown and that place is a dump. The Rams moved to Anaheim , but that was not really a "football" stadium.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Chris on February 20, 2015, 09:20:30 AM
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Well that was the old LA Coliseum downtown and that place is a dump. The Rams moved to Anaheim , but that was not really a "football" stadium.

I just like bashing on sports.  I rarely get my facts straight if they get in the way of my bashing.  :P
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Vapors on February 21, 2015, 12:03:13 AM
It may be scare tactics, but to partner with the Raiders means the Chargers really feel this is it for the stadium issue.  We'll probably find out within the next 12-18 months.  Personally, I'd be gutted if the Chargers leave San Diego, but I'm bracing for them to leave.  San Diego bowed down to the Chargers once before and there was absolutely nothing good that came out of that (Chargers ticket guarantee), so I don't blame the city for being cool to the Chargers' overtures.  Plus the Chargers ideas have always been half baked and never really thought through (the convention center expansion being part of the stadium a mile away? what?).
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on February 21, 2015, 04:53:44 AM
FWIW, the Raiders are pretty desperate too. The have been wanting a new stadium for ages, and have been threatening to move for some time. Their games here often aren't sell outs. So they're in a similar situation.

Plus the 49ers across the bay just got a new stadium, and the Super Bowl will be hosted there next year, so it's salt in the wound, KWIM? I think they're serious about this, and that makes me think the Chargers must be too, because they wouldn't partner together otherwise.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Vapors on February 21, 2015, 12:00:30 PM
Oh I know.  I moved to the Bay Area about 9 years ago and have been to the Oakland stadium.  That place makes Qualcomm look like a luxury hotel in comparison. 
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: DaveG on February 22, 2015, 05:24:39 PM
Let the games continue.

http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/san-diego-chargers-stadium-mayor-kevin-faulconer-meets-with-team-president-dean-spanos-after-carson-project-announced-022215
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on February 22, 2015, 05:36:28 PM
Whee. Just let them leave already. The maybe we can get a convention center expansion with no one else vying for the money...
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: DaveG on February 22, 2015, 07:34:02 PM
It does seem like all the attention right now is on a new stadium for the Chargers.  You don't hear nearly as much about the convention center expansion.  It doesn't come across like it's a top priority right now.  Sad.  I give CCI some credit for putting up with all this.  But if the Chargers end up getting their way, maybe it's a blueprint for what CCI needs to do.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Vapors on February 23, 2015, 05:14:48 PM
Thing is, they already had a plan in place.  But that got shot down due to legal reasons.  Only way I see this happening now is through a public vote, and if the Chargers can't get the public behind a stadium, I can't imagine how successful the convention center will be getting people behind this expansion to benefit a few large profile events.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Mel on February 23, 2015, 05:18:41 PM
The public would likely support or be more likely to support CC expansion because it's being paid for by hotel tax, not our own tax dollars.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Vapors on February 23, 2015, 06:01:00 PM
Not sure if the demographics of San Diego have shifted, but it has usually been a strong Conservative/Republican holdout in a very liberal state for years.  They don't want ANY taxes, regardless.  And if there are, it should be used for city services like police, schools, roads, etc not to "big business" is there reasoning.

Also, any tax increase requires 2/3 supermajority (unless this changed).  That's a huge number for a tax that will really benefit only the hotel/downtown folks.  Good luck getting people behind that.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Mel on February 23, 2015, 06:09:08 PM
Well, the good news is that it's not for big business. It's for the CC which brings in Superbowl money every year during CC. Though the truth is that no other Convention has outgrown the CC, just SDCC.

Though I have to say, is there a CC on Earth that can handle the demand of SDCC? I just don't think so, at this point it will always sell out in an hour. Beyond that, can any other CC create the atmosphere and campus feel that downtown San Diego  provides? I don't think so either.

How much better could it be if moved? What improvements do people see being  worth it.....because I don't think it will necessarily make getting badges THAT much easier.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Zero on February 23, 2015, 06:38:03 PM
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Well, the good news is that it's not for big business. It's for the CC which brings in Superbowl money every year during CC. Though the truth is that no other Convention has outgrown the CC, just SDCC.

Though I have to say, is there a CC on Earth that can handle the demand of SDCC? I just don't think so, at this point it will always sell out in an hour. Beyond that, can any other CC create the atmosphere and campus feel that downtown San Diego  provides? I don't think so either.

How much better could it be if moved? What improvements do people see being  worth it.....because I don't think it will necessarily make getting badges THAT much easier.

Indeed.  Even if Comic-Con does move or if the San Diego Convention Center is expanded, the bottom line is that there will always be more demand than supply in terms of badges.  Some people will be fortunate to get badges during online registration; some people will not be.  A larger convention center may allow an additional number of badges, however many that will be, but there isn't any guarantee that a larger convention center will make that much of a difference if demand still exceeds supply in the long run. 

As the years pass by (the trend for attending comic conventions will die down eventually, but it doesn't look like it will be that way any time soon), Comic-Con will get even more popular and more publicized because of news coverage, social media, Hollywood film companies hyping their next movie or TV shows, and so forth, but it won't change the fact that there simply aren't enough badges for everyone who wants to attend.  In the end, they'll run into the same problem time and time again, regardless of moving Comic-Con, expanding the convention center in San Diego, or otherwise: there just isn't enough badges to go around.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: hikanteki on February 24, 2015, 05:33:45 PM
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Indeed.  Even if Comic-Con does move or if the San Diego Convention Center is expanded, the bottom line is that there will always be more demand than supply in terms of badges.  Some people will be fortunate to get badges during online registration; some people will not be.  A larger convention center may allow an additional number of badges, however many that will be, but there isn't any guarantee that a larger convention center will make that much of a difference if demand still exceeds supply in the long run. 

As the years pass by (the trend for attending comic conventions will die down eventually, but it doesn't look like it will be that way any time soon), Comic-Con will get even more popular and more publicized because of news coverage, social media, Hollywood film companies hyping their next movie or TV shows, and so forth, but it won't change the fact that there simply aren't enough badges for everyone who wants to attend.  In the end, they'll run into the same problem time and time again, regardless of moving Comic-Con, expanding the convention center in San Diego, or otherwise: there just isn't enough badges to go around.

Yes, I agree whatever changes they make, there won’t be enough badges to go around anytime soon. But in the meantime, if they can raise the cap to a number significantly higher than 130,000 (Let’s say 200,000...although this number doesn’t tie to any convention center, it’s just a random conjecture) -- even though this won’t fully cover demand, it will still make a difference to a LOT of people.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: karl clement on February 24, 2015, 06:05:12 PM
why don't they add days to the con make it 6 days
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Zero on February 24, 2015, 06:26:24 PM
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Yes, I agree whatever changes they make, there won’t be enough badges to go around anytime soon. But in the meantime, if they can raise the cap to a number significantly higher than 130,000 (Let’s say 200,000...although this number doesn’t tie to any convention center, it’s just a random conjecture) -- even though this won’t fully cover demand, it will still make a difference to a LOT of people.

Yes, that is true.  A larger convention center may mean that more people get to attend and enjoy the convention, but with larger amounts of people comes more logistical issues to work through (such as locations of lines, walking areas, resting areas, etc.); more third-party security (who may or may not coordinate with each other to give attendees proper information); more concerns about safety and fire hazards; more increases in badge prices (just to accommodate renting larger spaces--convention organizers usually rent out specific rooms or halls for a certain contracted price with the actual convention center management); more problems with crowding and keeping the flow of traffic moving; and so forth.  The same problems will still exist, just in a different form, and in reality, moving to a larger convention center or expanding the current convention center will only alleviate the situation temporarily.


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why don't they add days to the con make it 6 days

It would be difficult for the staff members to keep it going for six days, logistically and financially.  It's easier said than done, unfortunately.  I can tell you from personal experience that it's difficult to run a 4-day convention (I don't work for Comic-Con, but I staff other large conventions), and with two additional days, it can even more be challenging. 

It's important to note that staff members (those who are paid and unpaid) have to come in earlier and stay much later than attendees do.  They may go in at least one or two days in advance to oversee proper set-up, and when the convention is over, they have to stay behind to oversee proper clean-up and breakdown of any rented equipment for their particular departments.  During the convention, the staff members are running around, making sure things are working properly in their departments, and doing whatever that needs to be done to make sure people have a safe but fun experience.  The programming panel schedule would have to be massively changed, and staff shift schedules would also be affected (remember that most convention staff members, with the exception of the top-most executives, are unpaid, so they have to follow state labor laws and can't work more than 8 hours per day with a minimum of two 10- or 15-minute breaks inbetween).  Sometimes, it may take up to 100 versions before the final, public version of the programming schedule goes out.  There are a lot of things that go on behind-the-scenes that attendees, like ourselves, aren't aware about.

Not only are there limitations in human resources, but there are financial reasons to consider.  The convention organizers rent out the convention center for a certain number of days.  Each hall or room is a certain amount that is contracted with the management of the convention center.  This may include renting special projectors, audio, video, and other equipment for a certain number of days from a third-party tech equipment company or convention services "decorator" company as well.  All of this adds up and costs a lot of money.  Sponsorships are one thing to consider; studio, network, or vendor participation is another.  (After all, these companies need time to work out who will be doing what panels, what exhibit hall booths, etc.)

Even if the convention is extended to six days long, it also wouldn't necessarily mean that more people would get to enjoy the convention either.  People would want to go for six days, instead of only a certain number of days.


With that said, it would make for an interesting experience if CCI were ever to consider increasing the number of convention days.


Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on February 24, 2015, 06:32:20 PM
Another issue: if the con were 6 days long, I would want to go for all 6 days. Essentially, the people who get all 4 days (or 4 days plus PN) would now be going for 6 days. That doesn't necessarily mean more badges for others.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Chris on February 24, 2015, 06:35:46 PM
2.5 days is actually the limit of human endurance.  We just torture ourselves with longer every year.  :)
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on February 26, 2015, 09:56:50 AM
The issues discussed in this article are becoming quite the broken record  :o Can't wait til someone echoes Han and simply says, "no time to discuss this in committee!!!"

From:

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2015/feb/25/convention-center-repair-bill-growing/

Faced with mounting repair costs for the San Diego Convention Center, officials there are hoping a combination of revenue from naming rights and a larger contribution from city coffers will help pay the bill.

Topping the list of needed fixes, from escalator retrofits to new fire sprinklers, is the replacement of the center's aging rooftop sails pavilion, which suffers from torn fabric and deteriorating fasteners and cables. In all, the tab for major fixes over the next five years is expected to exceed $32 million, with more than $15 million of that needed for the pavilion alone.

In a presentation Wednesday before the San Diego City Council's Budget and Government Efficiency Committee, convention center officials underscored the coming repair bills and their efforts to raise revenues from naming rights sponsors, which could bring in as much as $22.5 million over a 20-year period.

Lining up sponsors, though, could take as long as two years, the corporation said. In the meantime, it will not have enough money to finance all the fixes, given that it currently gets no more than $3.4 million a year in city funds, of which nearly $2 million goes toward pursuing future convention bookings. The income it receives from conventions and trade shows helps support the general operation of the center and its personnel costs.

"We have over $30 million in deferred maintenance, and it's something we continue to wrestle with," said Steve Cushman, who chairs the Convention Center Corp. board. "That's why the naming rights money would be used for that. We cannot generate enough capital to pay for all of our deferred maintenance."

Given the growing urgency for finding revenue, Councilman Scott Sherman wondered why it will take as long as two years to secure naming rights commitments for the center as a whole, in addition to sponsorships for specific meetings rooms, public spaces and outdoor terraces.

"Can't we get this done more quickly?" Sherman asked. "Sometimes you need to strike when the iron is hot."

Councilman David Alvarez was puzzled as to why the corporation had not sought more funding help from the city in the past, given the center's responsibility to request funds each year for what it needs to run and maintain the facility and the city's obligation to assist in funding capital projects.

"So if it's the city's obligation to fund some of these improvements, why hasn't that been requested over the last four years I've been on the council?" Alvarez said.

Carol Wallace, president of the Convention Center Corp., acknowledged that the city had not been receptive in the past to providing more funds beyond the $3.4 million it has been getting in recent years. She said the corporation will be seeking from the city at least $3.9 million in additional funds for the coming fiscal year to cover the projected repair costs for just that year.

Council members commended convention center officials for starting to rebuild its reserve, which had dwindled to zero after peaking in 2008 at $8 million. A sizable portion of that reserve had gone toward helping cover planning costs associated with a now dead proposal to substantially expand the waterfront center. The reserve now stands at nearly $1.7 million.

In its report to the council, the corporation pointed out that over the last 10 years, it has spent some $42 million on repairs and maintenance but as the 25-year-old center continues to age, maintenance costs have escalated.

Concerned about a recent inspection report, which concluded that some of the sail pavilion's cables are in poor condition and are "subject to failure in time," committee chairman Todd Gloria wondered if there is any "imminent danger."

Cushman reassured him that the structure is regularly monitored and maintained but it has just 30 to 36 months of "useful life" remaining.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Mel on February 26, 2015, 10:30:28 AM
Yikes. I feel the CC has been poorly managed. They put all their eggs in the expansion basket.....and lost, due to Chargers bull. I think the city will come through for them though.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Vapors on February 26, 2015, 11:07:43 AM
Chargers had nothing to do with that.  It was a court that struck down their original proposal.  I was hoping it would pass, but in the back of my mind, it did seem kind of seemly to "create" a hotel district that only they could vote on.  It does surprise me that they only get a few million every year from the city.  Thought it would be more.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Mel on February 26, 2015, 11:56:10 AM
The lawyer that challenged it and brought it to the courts was a Chargers shill.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: DaveG on February 26, 2015, 12:16:12 PM
I just dread reading these updates.  Things drag and drag and people don't realize that "no decision" still costs money.  If things drag long enough, not only will SD not have an expanded convention center, they'll have a convention center that can no longer support current crowd levels.  I guess that will make CCIs decision easy in regards to a possible move.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Vapors on February 26, 2015, 02:15:30 PM
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The lawyer that challenged it and brought it to the courts was a Chargers shill.

The case appears to have been brought out by a Melvin Shapiro, a long-time civic watchdog advocate and a group called San Diegans for Open Government.  I don't seem to find anything linking them to the Chargers directly or indirectly. 
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Bert Su on February 26, 2015, 10:41:03 PM
I say let it happen. The more chance I have of being able to get into open registration next year, the better
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Mel on February 26, 2015, 11:00:09 PM
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The case appears to have been brought out by a Melvin Shapiro, a long-time civic watchdog advocate and a group called San Diegans for Open Government.  I don't seem to find anything linking them to the Chargers directly or indirectly.

Guess we will find out if he doesn't file a suit against their upcoming deal.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Pyramid on March 08, 2015, 03:56:10 PM
Enough with the Comic Con Ping Pong.  Keep up with the political hurdels and CCI will go to Las Vegas.  CCI already has a SoCal convention, Wondercon, and it is clearly not going back to SF.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: perc2100 on March 09, 2015, 07:46:45 AM
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Well, the good news is that it's not for big business. It's for the CC which brings in Superbowl money every year during CC. Though the truth is that no other Convention has outgrown the CC, just SDCC.

Couple of things:
1) Comic-Con alone bring in Super Bowl-money to the city.  Most conservative estimates I've read indicate Comic-Con brings in MORE than Super Bowl money annually
2) I've gotten the impression locally that San Diego has lost conventions to larger Convention Centers in Vegas or L.A. or Anaheim; meaning the convention center isn't exactly "too small" for other conventions, but bigger places have landed/"stolen" other convention from the city over the last several years
3) It's possible an expanded convention center would attract more/bigger conventions thus bringing in more revenue to the city

While I am a Chargers fan (or was; their latest hard-politicing has soured me quite a bit to the fact that I don't care anymore if they leave), financially it is absolutely ludicrous for the city to seemingly invest over half a billion dollars to build a stadium while neglecting the Convention Center expansion.  Financially the Chargers make very little money for the city (and it is VERY hard to find hard figures on exactly how much the city makes off the Chargers); technically right now San Diego LOSES $10 million a year on the Chargers/Qualcomm.  The only really hard data I've read goes back to the 2006 season when the Chargers were 14-2 and had a home playoff team (i.e. the best season the team has had since their Super Bowl run in the early 90's), and during that season the team made between $.8-1.3 million.  I would call that fairly insignificant in the grand scheme of fiscal year finances: especially when I've seen data that conservatively says Comic-Con pulls in around $125 million ANNUALLY (and that was as of a few years ago).  A recent study shows the vast majority of economists saying it is a ludicrously bad business deal to pay for pro stadiums via public taxes; they said cities make minimal return on that invest, and often flat-out LOSE money on the "investment."  The study said that having a pro team only benefits the city in a "municipal pride" sort of way.  While that is not a bad thing, I think in the grand scheme of things there are better ways for public money to be spent.

I was sick on the day last week when they had the Chargers rally at Qualcomm, but I might seriously go to another one and bring these points up to the city.  It would be fun to publicly bring light of these points, and I bet it would get coverage in the local papers 
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: perc2100 on March 09, 2015, 07:55:26 AM
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Chargers had nothing to do with that.  It was a court that struck down their original proposal.  I was hoping it would pass, but in the back of my mind, it did seem kind of seemly to "create" a hotel district that only they could vote on.  It does surprise me that they only get a few million every year from the city.  Thought it would be more.
Yeah it was a law suit brought on by a watchdog guy.  The Chargers legal rep, Mark Fabiani, has been vocal criticizing the city's tactics to expand the Convention Center because he suspected (knew) it would get overturned in court eventually.  To be fair to The Chargers in this instance, their preference would be a downtown stadium that is connected with the Convention Center & expansions: Chargers' ideal new stadium would be one massive complex that would benefit the city on many different levels - new Chargers digs, CC expansion, multi-use movable-roofed stadium that could accommodate football & basketball to potentially host NCAA playoffs, etc.  IMO it's the only option that makes sense for the city/tax payers to finance since it would benefit the city more than just a remodel of The Q would
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: perc2100 on March 09, 2015, 07:58:31 AM
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Well, the good news is that it's not for big business. It's for the CC which brings in Superbowl money every year during CC. Though the truth is that no other Convention has outgrown the CC, just SDCC.

Though I have to say, is there a CC on Earth that can handle the demand of SDCC? I just don't think so, at this point it will always sell out in an hour. Beyond that, can any other CC create the atmosphere and campus feel that downtown San Diego  provides? I don't think so either.

How much better could it be if moved? What improvements do people see being  worth it.....because I don't think it will necessarily make getting badges THAT much easier.

The bigger question, IMO, has more to do with CCI's concerns about a Convention Center that is in disrepair and only getting worse with age, as the city (and CC management) just kind of let it happen.  This is not just a size problem (though size is a big factor), but it has to do with the myriad of problems with the current Convention Center that are seemingly going a bit ignored.  If I'm CCI management, I'm thinking that I might be attached to a sinking ship and maybe it's better to get out before things get too bad
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: DaveG on March 09, 2015, 09:51:35 AM
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The bigger question, IMO, has more to do with CCI's concerns about a Convention Center that is in disrepair and only getting worse with age, as the city (and CC management) just kind of let it happen.  This is not just a size problem (though size is a big factor), but it has to do with the myriad of problems with the current Convention Center that are seemingly going a bit ignored.  If I'm CCI management, I'm thinking that I might be attached to a sinking ship and maybe it's better to get out before things get too bad

This is what I keep wondering.  While the fight continues over a new cc, who's taking care of the existing one?  It won't be long before expansion will be less of an issue than keeping the current space.  Can you imagine if they had to start reducing attendance?
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Mel on March 09, 2015, 10:10:48 AM
Hey if Marvel really does pull out of comic-con it might help reduce attendance!
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: perc2100 on March 09, 2015, 10:11:43 AM
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This is what I keep wondering.  While the fight continues over a new cc, who's taking care of the existing one?  It won't be long before expansion will be less of an issue than keeping the current space. Can you imagine if they had to start reducing attendance?
Or can you imagine the clustercuss ($.02 FANTASTIC MR. FOX) if they had to shut down Sails Pavilion because of faulty wires?  Or, gods forbid, if there was a tragic accident because the CC went into disrepair and the lawsuits that would (rightfully) generate? 
It's easy to get caught up in the debate of expansion & overlook the problems of what we have now (that might very well be driving business out of the county in lieu of greener pastures), but it is unfortunate.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: perc2100 on March 09, 2015, 10:15:21 AM
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Hey if Marvel really does pull out of comic-con it might help reduce attendance!

Ha; I've been busy lately and might've missed something, but is there rumor to this or are you speculating based on D23?  The last D23 held Marvel had a really bad arse movie panel so I would say at this point the lack of Hall-H Marvel panel was a one-time anomaly: three D23s so far, 1 Marvel Hall-H absence.

If there is other news/rumor that has come out can someone post a link?
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Mel on March 09, 2015, 10:19:04 AM
There is another thread. James Gunn said on Twitter that Marvel wasn't coming to SDCC. He clearly means the films, but that would still be huge and quell a lot of the hype.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: susanml10881 on March 09, 2015, 01:03:54 PM
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This is what I keep wondering.  While the fight continues over a new cc, who's taking care of the existing one?  It won't be long before expansion will be less of an issue than keeping the current space.  Can you imagine if they had to start reducing attendance?

The Center has been neglected for some time now. They hired an outside firm to help them raise funds and corporate sponsorships awhile ago. Qualcomm Stadium is in bad shape too.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Mel on March 09, 2015, 01:26:49 PM
They mismanaged their money. I believe there was an article earlier, that I think I posted about how they spent all their money hiring the firm to come up with the expansion plans and design rather than maintenance.......and well, they expansion was blown out for the time-being by that PITA lawyer and so they spent it on nothing and are asking the city for money for maintenance now.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: perc2100 on March 10, 2015, 09:33:25 AM
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There is another thread. James Gunn said on Twitter that Marvel wasn't coming to SDCC. He clearly means the films, but that would still be huge and quell a lot of the hype.
Yeah, I'm totally late to the part on that blow-up from yesterday.  WOW!
I'm not sure how much hype it will quell: WB/DC/Justice League stuff will still be ginormous as well as stuff we're not thinking about yet.  But year, no Marvel would be fairly significant.  Marvel didn't have a panel the summer before AVENGERS, and the showed last October that they can hold their own event and get just as much hype as a SDCC panel.  I'm only bummed in the fact that a)I was hoping to see CIVIL WAR footage and b)any Marvel movie fan really should experience a panel with RDJ at least once: he is such a freaking blast w/an open mic
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: perc2100 on March 10, 2015, 09:40:11 AM
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The Center has been neglected for some time now. They hired an outside firm to help them raise funds and corporate sponsorships awhile ago. Qualcomm Stadium is in bad shape too.
Honestly, saying "The Q is in bad shape" is a huge understatement.  The Convention Center has problems, but The Q is awful
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Bert Su on March 10, 2015, 11:49:35 PM
CC I could easily pay for expansion with all the new attendees they would get.  They should start expanding right now
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: perc2100 on March 11, 2015, 07:37:43 AM
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CC I could easily pay for expansion with all the new attendees they would get.  They should start expanding right now
They might; I'm not 100% sure what their financial situation is, how much they pull in vs their expenditures, etc. 
The other side of that is "why should they?"  It's the same as the Chargers potentially leaving San Diego for L.A. in the sense that they could maybe pay to build their own stadium complex, but why bother when they can either a) get tax payers in SD to pay for it or b) get corporations in LA to finance.  I suspect CCI has a lot on their plate and taking charge of convention center is probably not on the 'to do' list.  If San Diego can't get their act together then CCI can move Comic-Con to a city that does
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: DaveG on March 11, 2015, 08:00:55 AM
I highly doubt CCI would completely take over and run the convention center expansion.

I still think the main thing keeping SDCC in San Diego is that they already have an established volunteer network and a good working relationship with the downtown hotels and businesses.  I think building those in a new city is a lot of work that CCI would rather not do.  If at some point the headaches created by size constraints and an aging cc become more difficult than starting over elsewhere, that is when I think CCI would actively look to move.  I don't think money is the #1 issue in CCIs case because they are non-profit (at least as long as they're not showing a loss).
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: perc2100 on March 11, 2015, 08:31:22 AM
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I highly doubt CCI would completely take over and run the convention center expansion.

I still think the main thing keeping SDCC in San Diego is that they already have an established volunteer network and a good working relationship with the downtown hotels and businesses.  I think building those in a new city is a lot of work that CCI would rather not do.  If at some point the headaches created by size constraints and an aging cc become more difficult than starting over elsewhere, that is when I think CCI would actively look to move.  I don't think money is the #1 issue in CCIs case because they are non-profit (at least as long as they're not showing a loss).

Yeah I suspect there is absolutely no way that would ever happen
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Mel on March 11, 2015, 10:06:13 AM
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I highly doubt CCI would completely take over and run the convention center expansion.

I still think the main thing keeping SDCC in San Diego is that they already have an established volunteer network and a good working relationship with the downtown hotels and businesses.  I think building those in a new city is a lot of work that CCI would rather not do.  If at some point the headaches created by size constraints and an aging cc become more difficult than starting over elsewhere, that is when I think CCI would actively look to move.  I don't think money is the #1 issue in CCIs case because they are non-profit (at least as long as they're not showing a loss).
What he said. All established here. It's a tiny full-time staff at CCI and they are all San Diegans. Starting over somewhere else gets them what really? How many more badges? It's not like anywhere doubles the badges and nowhere else offers Gaslamp and walkable campus setup and atmosphere.

It does make me nervous we have not heard about another extension though.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Chris on March 11, 2015, 10:21:12 AM
Adding to cracksback's post:

With SDCC being not for profit, do they need to sell more badges to make more money?  The main reason they would want to sell more would be to reduce the amount of complaints they get regarding badges.

That being said, if they moved to a facility that could accommodate everyone that wanted to go, I have every confidence that people would immediately move on to the next topic to complain about  how SDCC does something.

Not not not commenting towards anyone's post here.  Just basing this on general internet complaints I have read regarding comic con.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: perc2100 on March 13, 2015, 09:24:02 AM
I apologize if this has been stated already and I missed it.  Thought this is kind of pertinent in this thread:

The San Diego mayor's focus group that is working on the logistics of a new stadium for the NFL Chargers franchise has chose the Mission Valley (current location of their stadium, maybe 10/15 min. from downtown) as the most feasible location for the new stadium.  It seems right now the city is not pursuing the downtown option that would've included the Convention Center expansion.  I don't know if this puts the Convention Center expansion a bit further on the back burner or what, but as of right now CC expansion as part of the Chargers stadium is off the table
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Mel on March 13, 2015, 09:38:24 AM
We didn't want it attached to stadium. It would have taken a very very long time. A downtown stadium was gonna be a long awful process because MTS was going to have to move the whole trolley operation and the trolley tracks to make room if that's what they tried.

In my mind, it increases the prospect of CC expansion by not tying it to the stadium. They have the plans already, it now just involves getting the hotel tax on the ballot.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: semigeekgirl on March 13, 2015, 09:58:55 AM
Unfortunately, it involves getting the hotel tax PAST the ballot. I think it's possible they can get the tax on the ballot. But even though I personally support the tax, I think there's pretty much a snowball's chance in hell of the SD voters actually passing it. They are notoriously tax-averse, even when they won't be paying it.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Mel on March 13, 2015, 10:02:14 AM
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Unfortunately, it involves getting the hotel tax PAST the ballot. I think it's possible they can get the tax on the ballot. But even though I personally support the tax, I think there's pretty much a snowball's chance in hell of the SD voters actually passing it. They are notoriously tax-averse, even when they won't be paying it.
Call me an optimist. If the CC and Tourism and Travel peeps pay for some good ads.....it could pass. SD is changing a bit. We did elect a Democrat for mayor finally......though that didn't work out due to him being a letch.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: perc2100 on March 13, 2015, 10:24:42 AM
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Unfortunately, it involves getting the hotel tax PAST the ballot. I think it's possible they can get the tax on the ballot. But even though I personally support the tax, I think there's pretty much a snowball's chance in hell of the SD voters actually passing it. They are notoriously tax-averse, even when they won't be paying it.
IDK; I think CA in general is gung-ho about passing taxes on to tourists (I sure has heck am, even if it means I do a double take and freak out when I stay in a CA hotel somewhere).  We've passed at least one hotel tax increase, if not a couple, in the last 5-10 years.  That might've been a state-wide thing though, IDR
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: perc2100 on March 13, 2015, 10:27:27 AM
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Call me an optimist. If the CC and Tourism and Travel peeps pay for some good ads.....it could pass. SD is changing a bit. We did elect a Democrat for mayor finally......though that didn't work out due to him being a letch.
Oh man, "that didn't work out" is such an understatement with that uber creepy letch  :(
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: susanml10881 on March 13, 2015, 01:28:57 PM
Looks like we are getting a new stadium bleh http://www.cbs8.com/story/28406058/new-chargers-stadium-to-be-built-in-mission-valley

Chargers threatened to go to LA. But they need funding. Same old same old. It's in Mission Valley though not Downtown.. so no combined Stadium/Convention Center?
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Zero on March 13, 2015, 01:57:25 PM
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Looks like we are getting a new stadium bleh http://www.cbs8.com/story/28406058/new-chargers-stadium-to-be-built-in-mission-valley

Chargers threatened to go to LA. But they need funding. Same old same old. It's in Mission Valley though not Downtown.. so no combined Stadium/Convention Center?

Thanks for posting the article! 

The run-around again.  I feel like this is getting more and more ridiculous as time passes by. >__<;;


This is the part of the article that got my attention:

"Backers of the proposed 72,000-seat stadium near the San Diego (405) Freeway in Carson will begin a petition drive today in hopes of expediting the project by putting it on the ballot or getting immediate approval from the City Council.

With enough petition signatures, the project will go directly to the Carson City Council, which can either approve the project outright or place the issue on the ballot. The initiative process allows the project to avoid lengthy and expensive environmental reviews.

The group needs to collect 8,041 valid signatures from registered voters in the city to get the project before the council."



In the end, they still need a petition and an approval from the City Council.  I have a feeling this will also take a while, even if it goes through or not. 
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: susanml10881 on March 13, 2015, 03:58:12 PM
True. Maybe lip service or stall to keep the Chargers as an option? I don't know. But yeah it is still a long way off even if they do find the money.

I don't know if the goal is to accommodate everyone who wants to go to SDCC. Is that possible even if hey moved or expanded? Let's say a million people want to go. That would be too crazy and crowded to me.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Pyramid on March 13, 2015, 05:09:08 PM
The longer this drags out the more I'm inclined to think that Comic Con is going to move somewhere larger.  Wondercon is now in LA and never coming back to SF.  So, CCI has its' SoCal Con.  From what I have heard the LV Convention Center could handle Comic Con.  If that does ever happen ... IF ... I completely recognize the history and what San Diego means for Comic Con ... then I will no longer be going. 
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on March 15, 2015, 08:55:35 AM
From (emphasis mine):

http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2015/mar/13/study-examines-convention-center-expansion/

A planned $90,000 study may finally answer the question of whether an expanded San Diego Convention Center really needs to be on the current bayfront site or if it’s just as useful a few blocks away.

Mayor Kevin Faulconer, who has said he is willing to look at both options for providing additional convention space, has authorized moving ahead with the study, which is expected to be financed jointly by the city, the San Diego Convention Center Corp. and JMI Realty, which owns nearby land where it has considered building a 1,500-room hotel.

The San Diego Convention Center Corp. board will consider Wednesday contracting with the firm, Convention, Sports & Leisure International, or CSL, to analyze the pros and cons of alternative expansion scenarios, taking into account the changing trends in the meetings and trade show industry. The firm expects to complete its work by the end of June.

Five years have passed since the city and center studied the issue, in anticipation of a planned $520 million expansion.

That project is now dead in light of a court ruling last year that the hotelier-approved room tax to finance the bulk of the expansion is unconstitutional. The last study, updated in November 2010, concluded that area hotels could realize more than $121 million in additional room revenues. The new study will attempt to update that figure.

While tourism leaders continue to insist that meeting planners would prefer not to patronize convention facilities where the buildings are disconnected, the upcoming study may settle the debate. There are some who suggest that San Diego is already such a popular destination that a contiguous expansion may not be as essential as it would be in other locales.

“The industry is in constant change,” said Convention Center board President Steve Cushman, who also is working with the mayor’s office to examine options for expanding the center. “The Internet has affected meetings, associations have merged, there are new associations and new demands on meeting space and thus we believe this is an appropriate time and step in this process.”

As part of the analysis, the consultant will not only talk to representatives of the local visitor industry, but will also survey convention center users, including potential customers that have never come to San Diego’s center. In-person focus groups are also planned in Washington, D.C., and Chicago.

Because other top-tier convention cities have already completed or are contemplating expansion, the consultant will examine rival markets in a number of destinations, including San Francisco, Seattle, Orlando, New Orleans, Las Vegas, Anaheim, Denver, Boston and San Antonio.

CSL, in its report to the center corporation, notes the changing landscape for the meetings industry.

“As a modest rebound in the convention industry and the national economy continue to emerge, there have been changes to the selection criteria used by convention and trade show planners,” the report states. “Planners are highly focused on factors that impact the experience of the event attendee, including walkable access to hotels, restaurants and entertainment... Centers will have to offer capacity for evolving meeting formats that go beyond standard lecture settings.”

San Diego’s originally planned expansion would have added 225,000 square feet of exhibition space, 80,000 square feet of meeting rooms and an 80,000-square-foot ballroom space, plus kitchen, truck docks, a rooftop park and other spaces, to the 1.9-million-square-foot building (not including parking). Convention Center officials say the city is losing out on millions of dollars in revenues as large associations outgrow the San Diego facility or look elsewhere for their conventions.

The city is in the midst of talks with Comic-Con International in hopes of inking a deal to keep its biggest convention in San Diego beyond 2016, when the current agreement expires. A recently completed analysis commissioned by Faulconer, detailed new estimates of what it would cost to expand the 26-year-old center - either at its current bayfront location or in a stand-alone annex east of Petco Park. Those estimates ranged from $335 million to $549 million.



[Trying to keep the Chargers and Comic Con; Faulconer's a busy guy.]
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: retired on March 15, 2015, 10:03:22 AM
http://mapq.st/Q9Qo4T


Where exactly would this "Site 2" go? I see open land at 16th and National, but thats an industrial area, doesnt look so good.

Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on March 15, 2015, 10:11:29 AM
And on it goes.

I'm tired of all of this. I just want a decision to be made. Honestly, while I wasn't happy with it, I was almost relieved by the 'there will be no expansion and SDCC isn't moving, so it will be overcrowded and in excessive demand for the next decade' situation we had. I don't know if I have the energy to have my hopes raised by another possible expansion and then have them dashed again. And I don't even live in San Diego.

So I'm going to grump about and say 'meh, this will never get off the ground either' just to skip to the end without the emotional stress. ;)
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: perc2100 on March 16, 2015, 07:44:52 AM
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Looks like we are getting a new stadium bleh http://www.cbs8.com/story/28406058/new-chargers-stadium-to-be-built-in-mission-valley

Chargers threatened to go to LA. But they need funding. Same old same old. It's in Mission Valley though not Downtown.. so no combined Stadium/Convention Center?
Not necessarily.  All that is for sure at this time is that San Diego special council as chosen the Mission Valley site as the most feasible/viable spot for a new stadium.  We're still quite a bit of ways behind "getting" a stadium: there needs to be a funding agreed upon/proposed to the Spanos family (Chargers), if that funding involves raising taxes in anyway a vote will need to be placed on the ballot and agreed upon by either a simple majority or a 3/4's majority.  Oh, also the Chargers have to be OK with the city's plans and officially commit to staying.

NONE of that has happened, and in fact The Chargers still have not commented at all about the Advisory Group's decision in the almost-week since this publicly broke.  There is still a plausible possibility that the Spanos family can't resist moving up to L.A. because a) the team value with skyrocket and b) the TV deal will be significantly more than in San Diego.  It's also a plausible possibility that a tax increase to pay for the new stadium won't be approved by voters (all involved know this, which is part of the reason why this has taken over a dozen years to attempt).

Crazy situation that still is far from over
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: perc2100 on March 16, 2015, 07:49:56 AM
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The longer this drags out the more I'm inclined to think that Comic Con is going to move somewhere larger.  Wondercon is now in LA and never coming back to SF.  So, CCI has its' SoCal Con.  From what I have heard the LV Convention Center could handle Comic Con.  If that does ever happen ... IF ... I completely recognize the history and what San Diego means for Comic Con ... then I will no longer be going.

WonderCon is in Anaheim, which is Orange County (L.A. has their own convention center).  Regardless, you're right: Las Vegas could accommodate the space, no doubt, and likely has more-than-adequate hotels in the area.  It's hard to say how much CCI wants to stay or leave, as obviously that's not something you want to say publicly (unless you're The Chargers    >:( ).  I think if nothing else CCI can call there shots regarding hotels & rental prices and San Diego can either bend over backwards or let CCI (and it's $100+ million a year in revenue) go somewhere else.
If it does move, I will likely not be going either, but more because of logistics and finances than anything else.  WonderCon is a lot of fun, and if CCI moves Comic-Con I'll continue to go to WonderCon and be content
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: perc2100 on March 16, 2015, 07:58:07 AM
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True. Maybe lip service or stall to keep the Chargers as an option? I don't know. But yeah it is still a long way off even if they do find the money.

I don't know if the goal is to accommodate everyone who wants to go to SDCC. Is that possible even if hey moved or expanded? Let's say a million people want to go. That would be too crazy and crowded to me.
I don' t think CCI can accommodate everyone who wants a ticket.  Last year in a tech web article the software developer who wrote the code for CCI/EPIC's badge-purchasing software said there were over 900k people trying to get badges during the General sales: I think it's plausible to round that up to 1 million people wanting to get badges if you include folks buying badges for other people who can't get online themselves for whatever reason.  This happened AFTER around half of the badges were sold in Pre-Registration, and didn't include Pros + their guests.  That is a LOT of interest, and I can't imagine any Convention Center can handle 1 million people at a time.

I do think it's plausible part of CCI's goal is to bring awareness of pop arts to as many people as possible, which would include more people attending CCI than currently as there is obviously interest.  Knowing the SD Convention Center is not only too-small but is also partially in disrepair (and getting worse), it would make sense that if SD drags their feet too long CCI would find it more viable to change to a larger/better convention center.  As much as that would bum me out, I can't argue with their logic
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Chris on March 16, 2015, 08:02:27 AM
Random data:   Comiket is half a million--dont know the size of the facilities.   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comiket

Apparently, if attendees don't buy the program book, they die of confusion from the size of the show.  <--Not true--totally made that up.   :P
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: perc2100 on March 16, 2015, 08:13:34 AM
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Thanks for posting the article! 

The run-around again.  I feel like this is getting more and more ridiculous as time passes by. >__<;;


This is the part of the article that got my attention:

"Backers of the proposed 72,000-seat stadium near the San Diego (405) Freeway in Carson will begin a petition drive today in hopes of expediting the project by putting it on the ballot or getting immediate approval from the City Council.

With enough petition signatures, the project will go directly to the Carson City Council, which can either approve the project outright or place the issue on the ballot. The initiative process allows the project to avoid lengthy and expensive environmental reviews.

The group needs to collect 8,041 valid signatures from registered voters in the city to get the project before the council."



In the end, they still need a petition and an approval from the City Council.  I have a feeling this will also take a while, even if it goes through or not.

I don't think that phase will take too long: L.A. folks are dying for a team and I suspect whomever will push this type of thing through as quickly as possible - especially if there are no new taxes involved (which, I think, is the case in L.A. vs what the case would be in San Diego where the Chargers want public subsidy)
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Mel on March 16, 2015, 09:22:40 AM
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Random data:   Comiket is half a million--dont know the size of the facilities.   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comiket

Apparently, if attendees don't buy the program book, they die of confusion from the size of the show.  <--Not true--totally made that up.   
Well, they should just move it to Japan. Makes as much sense as anywhere else to me, considering nowhere else makes sense to me because it's SAN DIEGO Comic-Con. It's our Con.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: bettiebloodshed on March 16, 2015, 09:34:24 AM
Yeah it's been made pretty clear that the Chargers aren't really interested in staying in SD. I say, good riddance. I don't want to pay for their stadium; they have the money to build it themselves--so they should. But of course, no NFL team builds their own stadium. That's just a silly idea, right?

As for moving SDCC, I just don't know where it could go. LA is not a possibility. I go to two conventions in LA currently (AX and Comikaze) and AX especially is a crowded mess most of the time. And there genuinely is not a lot of hotel capacity around the convention center.

As for Las Vegas, nearly every LV convention isn't...great. My friends basically call LV 'where conventions go to die'. Otakon, the biggest anime convention on the east coast (So big they are moving to DC because Baltimore wouldn't expand), started their own convention in LV, and it's been a disaster. Yes, there is hotel capacity, there is convention space capacity, but the feel of the city is completely different. You wouldn't have the same organic experience outside in the gaslamp. Everything feels pretty sterile, and having to walk through the casinos constantly I think will be a mess, too. They don't look too kindly on costumed people walking through their halls because their cameras can't really focus on their faces (like if you are wearing a mask, etc). Also with the amount of people under 21...yeah.

There also wouldn't be the capacity to 'camp out' for panels. Like in LA, it wouldn't be particularly safe to do it outside, and there is no way that the casinos would allow it within their halls.

And you can bet it would also be more expensive (not hotels, perhaps, but pure tickets). Sure there is a lot of convention space, but it is *very* expensive. The Playstation Experience booth cost for an independent game developer was insane--and that was because of the cost of the convention hall, and PS having to pass it on to the independent exhibitors.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on March 16, 2015, 09:47:41 AM
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There also wouldn't be the capacity to 'camp out' for panels. Like in LA, it wouldn't be particularly safe to do it outside, and there is no way that the casinos would allow it within their halls.

Soooooo..... am I the only person who sees this as a good thing? ;)
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Chris on March 16, 2015, 10:39:09 AM
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Well, they should just move it to Japan. Makes as much sense as anywhere else to me, considering nowhere else makes sense to me because it's SAN DIEGO Comic-Con. It's our Con.

Personally, I don't think that SDCC is going to move anywhere.  But that's just my opinion.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: UntrueBeliever on March 16, 2015, 12:27:47 PM
I'll preface this by saying I don't want it to move or think it will, but looking at the list of biggest convention centers in the US, I'd maybe suggest New Orleans. West coasters would certainly hate the idea. Las Vegas is the only city with a bigger convention center that doesn't have a big annual convention already (Chicago, Orlando, Atlanta). It's also very walkable & has tons of hotels, but suffers from some of the same issues as LV (heat in July & more "adult" maybe than other cities). I'm sure others can think of other reasons why it wouldn't work, but hopefully it'll never have to be an option.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: hikanteki on March 16, 2015, 01:59:42 PM
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As for Las Vegas, nearly every LV convention isn't...great. My friends basically call LV 'where conventions go to die'. Otakon, the biggest anime convention on the east coast (So big they are moving to DC because Baltimore wouldn't expand), started their own convention in LV, and it's been a disaster.

How exactly has Otakon Vegas been a “disaster”? From what I’ve read, it was no Otakon Baltimore/DC in terms of attendance (nor was it trying to be) but it went fine.

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/convention/2015/otakon-vegas/.83498

Quote
There also wouldn't be the capacity to 'camp out' for panels. Like in LA, it wouldn't be particularly safe to do it outside, and there is no way that the casinos would allow it within their halls.

Good.

Quote
And you can bet it would also be more expensive (not hotels, perhaps, but pure tickets). Sure there is a lot of convention space, but it is *very* expensive. The Playstation Experience booth cost for an independent game developer was insane--and that was because of the cost of the convention hall, and PS having to pass it on to the independent exhibitors.

Hotels are really the big expense though -- with a cheaper hotel x5 nights vs. a more expensive badge, the attendee is still going most likely going to come out ahead. Do you know how much the convention center rents for in Vegas vs. SD?
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: epicaz on March 16, 2015, 03:53:29 PM
Something tells me that no matter where the 130k+ attendees of comic con go, there wont be any cheap hotels. Supply and demand would still spike the hotels that are closest. I think Vegas would be a dud. I come from out of state, and theres nothing appealing about going to Vegas compared to San Diego. Something tells me a decent amount of people would feel similarly.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: force951 on March 25, 2015, 12:32:47 PM
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I'll preface this by saying I don't want it to move or think it will, but looking at the list of biggest convention centers in the US, I'd maybe suggest New Orleans. West coasters would certainly hate the idea. Las Vegas is the only city with a bigger convention center that doesn't have a big annual convention already (Chicago, Orlando, Atlanta). It's also very walkable & has tons of hotels, but suffers from some of the same issues as LV (heat in July & more "adult" maybe than other cities). I'm sure others can think of other reasons why it wouldn't work, but hopefully it'll never have to be an option.

It will stay within easy driving/short flight distance to LA for the Hollywood stuff. Flying to the east coast sucks, since you lose a whole day pretty much.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: UntrueBeliever on April 22, 2015, 07:32:46 AM
http://touch.latimes.com/#section/1780/article/p2p-83356490/ (http://touch.latimes.com/#section/1780/article/p2p-83356490/)

Looks like the Chargers might be even less of a threat [to convention center expansion] after Carson approved financing for a joint Chargers/Raiders stadium yesterday.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on April 22, 2015, 07:52:50 AM
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http://touch.latimes.com/#section/1780/article/p2p-83356490/ (http://touch.latimes.com/#section/1780/article/p2p-83356490/)

Looks like the Chargers might be even less of a threat [to convention center expansion] after Carson approved financing for a joint Chargers/Raiders stadium yesterday.

Too little too late. They already got rid of the hotel tax to finance the convention center expansion.  :-\
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: DaveG on April 22, 2015, 07:57:55 AM
If nothing else, maybe San Diego can learn a lesson from this.  DO SOMETHING!  The Chargers were backed into a corner and are on the verge of leaving.  SDCC may not be far behind.

But yes, the Chargers helped derail expansion plans once, maybe they'll at least call off their supporters/lawyers and not prevent future efforts.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Bert Su on April 22, 2015, 03:53:18 PM
If NYCC has surpassed SDCc in attendance, SDCc should expand to take back the #1 spot for American Comic Con atrendence
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on May 11, 2015, 09:20:10 AM
From: http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2015/may/09/contiguous-convention-center-expansion-in-jeopardy/

A decision this week by the San Diego Convention Center Corp. to back out of a bayfront land deal could potentially kill any future plans for a contiguous expansion of the downtown facility, some City Council members fear.

At issue is a six-acre parcel of land behind the center that was seen as a crucial acquisition needed to make an expansion of the center possible. While the financing plan for that project has since fallen through because of a court ruling, city leaders haven’t given up yet on a bayfront expansion.

Their optimism faded, though, after learning on Thursday that the Convention Center Corp. decided to default on a final payment due of nearly $13.8 million to the private business group that holds the land through a lease with the Port of San Diego. The money needed to cover the payment would have come from revenues raised for the expansion project, but a hotelier-approved room tax that was the linchpin of the financing plan has been ruled unconstitutional by an appellate court.

“A policy decision was made by default and should have been made by the city,” Council President Sherri Lightner said Thursday during a council meeting to review the convention center budget. “We’ve just found out we won’t have a contiguous convention center (expansion), and it disturbs me greatly.”

Equally irritated was Councilwoman Lorie Zapf, who was also taken aback by news of the corporation’s decision to default.

“All of a sudden we’ve defaulted and we may not have the opportunity to have a contiguous center.”

While the center and the seller of the property, Fifth Avenue Landing LLC, had been in talks in recent weeks to possibly extend the term of the land deal in exchange for a partial interest payment, no agreement was reached, said Ray Carpenter, a partner with Art Engle at Fifth Avenue Landing.

To date, the center has made payments totaling $2 million, plus a $1 million down payment.

Steve Cushman, president of the convention center board, insisted Friday that the decision to walk away from the Fifth Avenue Landing deal does not necessarily jeopardize an expansion of the center on its current bayfront site. A $90,000 study is currently under way to analyze the pros and cons of alternative expansion scenarios that could guide the city on how it wants to proceed in the future, and that could include a contiguous expansion, Cushman said.

“Thereafter we should have sufficient data as to what our customers would like to see in the way of an expansion,” Cushman said. “That could take two avenues: the continuation of our efforts to do a contiguous expansion or possibly a campus expansion of our center across the street. We would certainly hope that we would be able to work with Mr. Carpenter and Mr. Engle if our customers come back and say they want a contiguous expansion.”

Also casting doubt on a possible expansion of the center at its current site is lingering litigation challenging the Coastal Commission's approval of the bayfront project.

While Carpenter left the door open to more talks, he said time is of the essence, given the five years that have passed with no movement forward. Under the terms of the 2010 deal, Fifth Avenue Landing has the right to develop a hotel of 400 rooms or more on its leasehold if the convention center expansion did not proceed. Carpenter and Engle have held the lease with the port since 1984 and have nine years remaining.

“The only concern I have is getting the property transferred back to Fifth Avenue Landing in a businesslike way so we can pursue other interests,” Carpenter said. “We sat on it for five years and lost lots of opportunities and now need to move ahead with it. We’re open for discussion but our timeline is short, and we have a very serious investment in the property so we’re looking to protect our rights for future development.”

Carpenter and Engle previously had approved plans to develop a 250-room hotel on the property but difficulties in securing financing and the recession combined to foil the project. Carpenter said they have been talking to consultants about the potential demand for a hotel without the expansion and the preliminary word is that the area could support hotel rooms. Currently under construction is a 400-room bayfront hotel northwest of the Fifth Avenue site that is due to be completed next year.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on May 11, 2015, 10:04:38 AM
Honestly, I had given up on the possibility of an expansion after  the funding was taken away, so mostly this article makes me roll my eyes and point at those politicians and say, "I told you so!".

But... the idea of a new hotel right behind the convention center has me excited!
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: perc2100 on May 11, 2015, 10:23:23 AM
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Honestly, I had given up on the possibility of an expansion after  the funding was taken away, so mostly this article makes me roll my eyes and point at those politicians and say, "I told you so!".

But... the idea of a new hotel right behind the convention center has me excited!

I agree, and while the Chargers/Qualcomm issues are numerous, I'm not 100% sure CCI has deal-breaking issues with the Convention Center.  Assuming Glanzer is being 100% honest, hotel price gouging might be the biggest issues.  A renovated/fixed-up convention center, hotels continuing to allow CCI to use space for panels, the city continuing to allow extra space for exhibitors outside the convention center, and hotels signing on to not be jerks might be all it really takes for CCI to stay
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: DaveG on May 11, 2015, 11:14:55 AM
Yeah, more hotel space is sounding better than an expanded convention center at this point.  And more doable since it would come from private funding and assuming there are no zoning or environmental issues, we can leave politics out of it.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Pyramid on May 11, 2015, 02:58:31 PM
So a hotel may go in for a convention that may not stay in San Diego?  I have been a big fan of Comic Con being in SD but having been to others cons where I can walk around and do not have to wait in line for every booth is pretty nice.  Demand doesn't seem to be dropping for Comic Con and so it is possible that fandom may inadvertently push CC out of SD.  I hope it doesn't happen, I love SD and the history it has with the con but the convention center is just too small.  It needs an expansion which seems totally dead.  :(
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Mel on May 11, 2015, 05:22:35 PM
You aren't going to get THAT much more space in any Convention Center. CCI is a SD venture, they don't want to leave SD, this is their home. They said at WC Talkback that they are not interested in SDCC growing. They said they are at their limit. And while more space would be nice, there would not be any more badges sold if they got it.

Glanzer said this last year to KPBS as well. They don't want to move and CC expansion is not the issue, that while they'd love more space, CC expansion is not the thing that would make them move. He could not be more clear. I don't think he's lying.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Chris on May 11, 2015, 06:49:42 PM
I honestly thought the expansion was already dead.  This thing comes back to life more than Jason Vorhees.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Mel on May 11, 2015, 07:50:03 PM
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I honestly thought the expansion was already dead.  This thing comes back to life more than Jason Vorhees.
Ch-ch-ch-ch Ah-ah-ah-ah
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: MegaDoug on May 11, 2015, 09:07:25 PM
 http://accexpansion.com/

 http://www.scpr.org/news/2015/03/10/50289/even-without-nfl-stadium-la-moves-forward-on-conve/

I personally don't think the LA expansion is a go, but work  is already happening for Anaheim's expansion. San Diego seems to have been taking a beating, but they did get a nice library built downtown.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Mario Wario on May 12, 2015, 12:53:04 AM
So the expansion idea is pretty much bye-bye, just like a badge resale happening this year. Not shocked. That said, while I still say it won't move, this does leave the door open still for a possibility of it moving. Until the door is shut, this "will they or not" will continue on. Blah. I even doubt that new hotel gets built. Believe it when I see it.
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You aren't going to get THAT much more space in any Convention Center. CCI is a SD venture, they don't want to leave SD, this is their home. They said at WC Talkback that they are not interested in SDCC growing. They said they are at their limit. And while more space would be nice, there would not be any more badges sold if they got it.

Glanzer said this last year to KPBS as well. They don't want to move and CC expansion is not the issue, that while they'd love more space, CC expansion is not the thing that would make them move. He could not be more clear. I don't think he's lying.
I think CCI just gave up on the idea long ago of the center ever getting bigger, so why push for something if it was dead to begin with? No support does not help. Hotel pricing is the biggest threat in their mind and it is. However, if they were not interested in the center expanding, then why did they sign a deal in the past that included it before it was struck down? Just saying.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Bert Su on May 12, 2015, 02:30:28 PM
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They said at WC Talkback that they are not interested in SDCC growing.
That's terrible. How can Comic Con continue to ignore everyone who wants to attend their convention?
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Mel on May 12, 2015, 02:36:21 PM
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That's terrible. How can Comic Con continue to ignore everyone who wants to attend their convention?
They said it's an issue of putting on the best possible show and at any bigger it wouldn't be something they are comfortable with in guaranteeing a good show that they can handle. People forget that CCI is a tiny entity and the Con is non-profit and has a mission. It's not a ReedPop business venture cash grab trying to build an empire by ripping you off one "VIP experience" at a time.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: karl clement on May 13, 2015, 06:16:10 PM
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That's terrible. How can Comic Con continue to ignore everyone who wants to attend their convention?
that makes sense, its not a bad thing, CCI can also grow Wonder CON, , if they are worried about hotels  maybe they should expand the free shuttle service, move farther out
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Bert Su on May 14, 2015, 05:53:18 PM
In that case, I think Comic Con will still listen to the voices of their fans and expand eventually. I don't think there's enough people against an expansion to make an opposition
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: DaveG on May 19, 2015, 12:41:52 AM
Seems like the only way to fast track a proposal is to threaten to leave, which SDCC really won't do.   Since this proposal is out in Mission Valley, it's not going to benefit the convention center.  But things could still change several times in the next few months.

http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/san-diego-chargers-stadium-plan-dean-spanos-sons-control-carmen-policy-carson-los-angeles-051815

Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on May 19, 2015, 11:30:50 AM
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Seems like the only way to fast track a proposal is to threaten to leave, which SDCC really won't do.   Since this proposal is out in Mission Valley, it's not going to benefit the convention center.  But things could still change several times in the next few months.

http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/san-diego-chargers-stadium-plan-dean-spanos-sons-control-carmen-policy-carson-los-angeles-051815

OTOH.... just to throw out a wild and crazy idea... what if they did expand to Mission Valley, and SDCC hosted some events there? Suddenly, the crowds would be a lot more spread out, Mission Valley hotels would become more desirable, and maybe some offsites might go out there as well. More space in multiple ways, relieving the pressure...

You never know. It could work.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: DaveG on May 19, 2015, 12:36:40 PM
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OTOH.... just to throw out a wild and crazy idea... what if they did expand to Mission Valley, and SDCC hosted some events there? Suddenly, the crowds would be a lot more spread out, Mission Valley hotels would become more desirable, and maybe some offsites might go out there as well. More space in multiple ways, relieving the pressure...

You never know. It could work.

It's actually not a horrible idea.  Gives new meaning to the term "off-site"...kind of "off-off-site".
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Kay on May 19, 2015, 12:39:21 PM
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In that case, I think Comic Con will still listen to the voices of their fans and expand eventually. I don't think there's enough people against an expansion to make an opposition

They might but they don't need too.  Think about it, would any other event just keep trying to cram as many as possible?  No, they have caps on tickets and space and its not considered abnormal.

I honestly feel this Trendy hype will die and the others will go elsewhere leaving con to the fans again.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Bert Su on June 02, 2015, 02:19:04 PM
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It's actually not a horrible idea.  Gives new meaning to the term "off-site"...kind of "off-off-site".
If we get the expansion with a rooftop garden, could part of the exhibit hall be set up on the rooftop?
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on June 18, 2015, 07:07:01 AM
http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2015/jun/17/convention-center-loan-repairs-sails-pavilion/

By Lori Weisberg 5:16 P.M. JUNE 17, 2015

San Diego Convention Center officials on Wednesday agreed to pursue a state loan to help finance a mounting repair bill for the aging facility but acknowledged that there’s no guarantee of getting the money.

At issue is a wide range of needed fixes at the center, from escalator retrofits to replacing the worn rooftop sails pavilion, totaling more than $32 million. Although the corporation is seeking revenue from naming rights to help address the maintenance backlog, no contracts have been signed and it’s uncertain whether enough money could be raised in the near term to pay off a loan or bonds to finance the costs. And because the San Diego Unified Port District owns the center, it retains some control over whatever revenues may come from naming rights sponsors.

The center’s best hope for financial help is securing a loan from a state revolving fund that provides financing to nonprofit corporations and public agencies for a variety of infrastructure and economic development projects costing up to $25 million.

The California Infrastructure and Economic Development Bank (IBank) currently has roughly $96 million in its revolving fund and in the last two years has approved eight loans totaling $47 million, according to Executive Director Teveia Barnes.

In addition to the $15.6 million the center needs for the repair of its iconic sails pavilion, $7 million more is needed in the next year for other fixes, including retrofitting four escalators at a cost of $3.9 million.

While the Convention Center Corp. board agreed to move ahead with the application process for as many as two separate loans, it pointed out that the center doesn’t necessarily have the financial resources to make a debt payment of up to $1 million a year over 25 years for the sails pavilion project and would need City Council approval to effectively co-sign any loan it seeks.

The corporation, which is technically a nonprofit, currently gets no more than $3.4 million a year in city funds, of which nearly $2 million goes toward pursuing future convention bookings. The income it receives from conventions and trade shows is used to help support the general operation of the center and its personnel costs.

While the corporation this year had requested an additional $4 million from the city, the money was not included in the city’s recently approved budget. Before the corporation can formally apply for the state loan, the corporation board will need to meet once more to act on a resolution authorizing the application, and it will likely also need formal support from the council.

In a separate meeting Wednesday of the council’s Budget and Government Efficiency Committee, council members seemed lukewarm to the idea of any additional contributions.

“We have plenty of deferred maintenance issues of our own,” said Councilman Scott Kersey.

Councilman Todd Gloria, who chairs the committee, was unwilling to commit right away to having the city co-sign a state loan until the council can get more information on where the $1 million a year in loan repayments would come from.

“You may not even get a loan from the bank and how it will be repaid is important,” Gloria said. “I imagine there will be resistance from the city to put up money to backstop a loan, and what (projects) are you going to tackle first? So there are a lot of questions here.”

The city, however, bears some responsibility for helping cover the costs of infrastructure improvements, a recent San Diego County Grand Jury report concluded. It recommended that the city incorporate the center’s repair projects into its own capital improvement program and that the two entities work on clarifying the responsibilities of each when it comes to the center’s major repair projects.

“I don’t see the council coming up with the money and this stuff has to get done,” said convention center board member Gil Cabrera. “We need $4 million extra money a year just to keep up. We need to keep our eyes open as we apply for this money and they are going to look at our financials.”
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Bert Su on June 18, 2015, 04:56:48 PM
some good news, finally
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: susanml10881 on June 18, 2015, 06:51:35 PM
It sounds like good news that they are trying to fix the center but it doesn't seem like they have the money (the loans need to be paid back). I read earlier that the Chargers already have one foot out of town. Use the money for the convention center instead of the stadium then.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: MegaDoug on June 18, 2015, 07:54:15 PM
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  I read earlier that the Chargers already have one foot out of town. Use the money for the convention center instead of the stadium then.

Yeah, that was kind of telling about the Chargers position, their spokesperson said that the city can't get a vote before the people by Dec 15th, and that they will miss the NFL deadline. One road-block after another....
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: black350 on June 19, 2015, 01:29:10 AM
I love going to San Diego but it seems to me they need to move.  Its not only that the capacity is already bursting at the seams but judging from what the article implied, a lot of repair and maintenance are not even being done.

That's simply dangerous when 200k people are packed into the center.  If they con doesn't move I hope they at least insist that all the repairs and maintenance are completed soon.  There are a lot of elderly and children during the cons and old buildings need more maintenance to be safe.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Car_Low on June 19, 2015, 02:40:09 AM
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I love going to San Diego but it seems to me they need to move.  Its not only that the capacity is already bursting at the seams but judging from what the article implied, a lot of repair and maintenance are not even being done.

That's simply dangerous when 200k people are packed into the center.  If they con doesn't move I hope they at least insist that all the repairs and maintenance are completed soon.  There are a lot of elderly and children during the cons and old buildings need more maintenance to be safe.

It doesn't state the severity of the deferred maintenance though. It could be something as small as a leaky faucet. Having been in places where normal attendees don't go where shotty maintenance can be hid everything looked fine to me. Its no where near as bad as the piece of crap Qualcomm Stadium is.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Bert Su on June 22, 2015, 08:29:45 PM
I look forward to seeing what the expanded convention center will look like
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Devorah on June 24, 2015, 04:38:51 PM
Comic Con nearing deal to stay in San Diego through 2018

http://m.utsandiego.com/news/2015/jun/24/comic-con-two-year-contract-expected/ (http://m.utsandiego.com/news/2015/jun/24/comic-con-two-year-contract-expected/)
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Mel on June 24, 2015, 04:49:52 PM
Woo hoo!!!!! Now we know Porto Vista is one of the crappy holdouts. Boycott! lol
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on June 24, 2015, 06:48:38 PM
It will be nice to have the issue settled.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on June 24, 2015, 08:39:45 PM
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Comic Con nearing deal to stay in San Diego through 2018

http://m.utsandiego.com/news/2015/jun/24/comic-con-two-year-contract-expected/ (http://m.utsandiego.com/news/2015/jun/24/comic-con-two-year-contract-expected/)

Stop the front-page press of the UT / LA Times South!

Top points that jumped out at me (emphasis mine):

-> Mayor Kevin Faulconer has personally met with Comic-Con International’s board of directors and reached out to hotel operators in hopes of convincing them to keep their room rates competitive. With 130,000 attendees, the convention is by far the city’s largest and attracts a global audience because of the top Hollywood TV and movie studios who showcase their programming and celebrities each year.

-> Hoteliers, however, confirmed that they have been responding to a recent request from Comic-Con organizers that they write up addendums to their 2016 room block contracts committing to not raise their rates for 2017 and 2018 and to maintain the same number of discounted hotel rooms for the convention.

-> Faulconer’s office would not disclose if and when a firm contract would be completed, but offered the following statement. “Comic Con is a San Diego treasure and we continue to have a tremendous partnership. I’m looking forward to this year’s convention and to continuing our collaborative relationship.”

-> Comic-Con spokesman David Glanzer declined to comment Wednesday but in the past has mentioned concerns about the rising hotel rates convention attendees are paying year after year. Most of the county’s more than 50 hotels in the room block are concentrated in downtown and Mission Valley and this year are charging rates that range from a low of $166 for the Days Inn-Hotel Circle to a high of $380 for a deluxe room with concierge service at the San Diego Marriott Gaslamp Quarter.

This news should make the tenor of the talkback panel very interesting  O0
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: omraged9 on June 25, 2015, 12:52:11 AM
That's great news. I hope they won't raise the hotel room rates too much next year because it sounds like the rates for 2017 and 2018 will stay the same as 2016.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: DaveG on June 25, 2015, 03:46:25 AM
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That's great news. I hope they won't raise the hotel room rates too much next year because it sounds like the rates for 2017 and 2018 will stay the same as 2016.

Yeah, I picked up on the same thing.  They've allowed themselves one shot in the next 3 years to raise rates.  Given the pressure the city and CCI have put on the hotels, I think they'll keep the raise moderate, hopefully $20 or less per night, but who knows.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Bert Su on June 26, 2015, 05:15:27 PM
The hotels are already costly. I wonder where the money hotels have made in previous years went to.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on June 28, 2015, 07:46:47 AM
Okay, so it's not the convention center itself, but the MMM is building its own convention center, and you can bet that it will be used next year by SDCC. Here are some details.

http://www.comicsbeat.com/convention-center-scorecard-san-diego-marriott-builds-a-new-ballroom/ (http://www.comicsbeat.com/convention-center-scorecard-san-diego-marriott-builds-a-new-ballroom/)
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: DaveG on June 28, 2015, 08:25:08 AM
Nice article.  Things like this can definitely help SDCC stay in San Diego.   And while I'm sure they still have to go through the process of getting permits and environmental studies, the hotels certainly don't have to worry about the politics of public financing.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on June 28, 2015, 08:27:44 AM
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Nice article.  Things like this can definitely help SDCC stay in San Diego.   And while I'm sure they still have to go through the process of getting permits and environmental studies, the hotels certainly don't have to worry about the politics of public financing.

Agreed. And I like the look of that rooftop area for lines!
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on September 01, 2015, 09:27:58 AM
http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2015/aug/31/convention-center-expansion-waterfront-study-says/

Study endorses bayfront center expansion

An eagerly awaited report analyzing the financial return on an expanded San Diego convention center reaffirms what its backers have long advocated: It needs to be on the waterfront.

The $90,000 study, though, isn’t likely to quiet the debate over where an expansion should go — if it can even get built — or how to pay for it.

The analysis, which will be formally released today, finds that additional convention space, no matter where it goes, will deliver an economic return. But it’s unequivocal in its conclusion that an enlarged center on the current bayfront site easily trumps a campus-like facility several blocks to the northeast when it comes to the dividends the city will reap.

San Diego Mayor Kevin Faulconer said the report, prepared by Convention Sports & Leisure International, is persuasive enough that he plans to begin work anew on a bayfront expansion project, with a goal of putting on the ballot a hotel tax increase to finance it as early as next year. Such a measure would require a two-thirds majority approval by voters.

“The study clearly shows that having a contiguous convention center expansion is a huge economic benefit, has the most immediate impact and provides the best return on investment,” said Faulconer, who had been awaiting the report’s outcome before deciding how to proceed. “It’s always been clear visitors have to pay for an expanded convention center. There’s strong community support for expanding our tourism economy because that paves our roads and keeps our libraries open so a strong, expanded convention center means more dollars we can spend on infrastructure in San Diego neighborhoods.”

He acknowledges that the timing, though, will depend on the outcome of still pending litigation challenging the California Coastal Commission’s approval of an earlier expansion proposal that fell through last year after a judge ruled that a hotelier-approved room tax to finance the bulk of the $520 million project was unlawful. The mayor’s office believes that the current litigation may well be resolved within the next six months.

Attorney Cory Briggs, who prevailed in the hotel tax case and is pursuing the Coastal Commission litigation, promises continued legal challenges as long as the city attempts to develop the waterfront with added convention facilities.

“Any effort to put a convention center expansion on the public waterfront will be met with every conceivable lawful challenge,” said Briggs, who predicts his current lawsuits could take as long as five years to resolve, assuming appeals are made all the way to the California Supreme Court. “The waterfront, by law, is supposed to be used for public, water-dependent purposes and convention centers are not open to the public and they’re not water dependent. And the only way to pay for it is to impose a tax, and there’s no way they can get a two-thirds vote in this town.”

While tourism leaders and hoteliers have long pushed for a contiguous expansion of the center, the Convention Center Corp. thought it was worthwhile to commission a study to finally settle the question of whether there is a willingness among conventioneers to consider holding their events in an off-site, campus-like facility tied to a large convention hotel.

Such an alternative has been advocated by JMI Realty, which owns nearby land where it has considered building a 1,600-room hotel. Such a hotel, the company has said, would complement development of a stand-alone convention facility on what is known as Tailgate Park, a publicly owned parking lot generally located east of 12th Street between K Street and Imperial Avenue, several blocks from the convention center.

The study found that such an expansion would in fact bring more convention business to San Diego, yielding nearly $61.2 million more in spending by convention goers on hotels, eating out and other such expenses, but a waterfront expansion would deliver more than 2.5 times that.

More telling is the consultant’s calculations on return on investment. Taking into account an estimated $410 million cost for a waterfront expansion, it would take nearly three years before the city would effectively make back that money by way of revenues generated by additional convention attendees. By comparison, it would take roughly seven years under off-site location scenario, based on an estimated $428 million construction cost.

The analysis, which relied heavily on surveys and interviews with event planners representing meetings of all sizes, was based on adding more than 200,000 square feet of exhibit space to the center’s existing 525,000 square feet of floor space. It also comes at a time when many other cities like Los Angeles, Anaheim and San Francisco are either considering enlarging their centers or are already in the midst of doing so.

While a larger center on San Diego’s bayfront would attract just a few more events each year than an off-site location, it’s the nature and size of those additional conventions that tilt the economic balance in favor of a contiguous expansion, said the study’s author, John Kaatz.

“It comes down to being able to retain and attract the largest events,” Kaatz said. “Any one of those events is over $30 million in direct spending. The large meeting planners aren’t excited about the campus option, and you may lose one or two of those. So if you’re a Microsoft or full-building user like that, you’re going to lose that really big event under the campus option. You can replace that with a smaller corporate event, but then you’re starting to trade very large, high-impact events for smaller events with smaller, more modest spending.”

He estimates that with the contiguous option, the city would retain and/or capture two very large events each year that would otherwise be lost with the off-site location. Both options would allow more conventions to take place at the same time, but there would be less flexibility with the off-site location, Kaatz said.

Local convention center officials have long argued that San Diego, while it remains a top destination for meeting planners, is in danger of losing its largest, most lucrative gatherings because of their need for more space. Most notable is Comic-Con, which long ago outgrew the center but recently committed to stay here through 2018, recognizing that there would not necessarily be an expanded center by then.

In focus groups held in Washington, D.C., and Chicago, some meeting planners stressed the importance of having water views as a part of their events, noting that it is part of the San Diego brand, although some planners overseeing mid-sized events said that a campus location would be fine for their associations.

While JMI had been strongly considering developing a hotel on its nearby Ballpark Village property, the mayor’s interest now in pursuing a waterfront expansion could steer the company toward plans it had also been considering to develop the land for housing. JMI, former Padres owner John Moore's development company, was responsible for building Petco Park.

“Right now there are buyers to finance residential development," said Steve Peace, of JMI, which has partnered with Lennar Homes on the Ballpark Village site. "We've had that property for a decade, which is a long time to hold a piece of property.”

The report, however, does suggest that the city additionally consider a possible public-private partnership on a privately developed hotel that would include substantial meeting space in that area.

Faulconer said he intends to initiate discussions with JMI to see what possibilities lie ahead. Peace had not yet seen a copy of the expansion study.

“It’s pretty clear a contiguous expansion is the preferred choice, but we will look to JMI for their plans for a hotel to serve a different niche,” he said. “The report said that could be an additional option so I want to bring all the stakeholders together.”

Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on September 01, 2015, 01:46:40 PM
so, to summarize...

A contiguous, waterfront expansion would be better and more profitable. The mayor wants this. The hotels want this.

But 'every conceivable legal challenge' will be thrown at it, and the San Diego residents are unlikely to approve the tax, even though they wouldn't be paying it (it would be tourists in the hotels paying the tax). 

So in other words, this is unlikely to happen.

I've been living this same vicious circle for years now. Ugh. S

Sorry, I'm old and bitter, in case you can't tell.  :P
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: DaveG on September 01, 2015, 04:37:48 PM
I'm convinced I will never live to see this expansion, so at this point I've pretty much given up on it.  Let the next generation worry about it assuming there still is a convention to worry about.

Yeah, two thirds majority vote on anything that has the word "tax" associated with it will never pass.  Too many people will vote a tax down without even knowing or caring what its about.  Some environmentalist will run ads saying it will ruin the waterfront and then it might not even get 50% of the vote.  Nope, not going to happen.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Mel on September 01, 2015, 08:52:42 PM
I'm holding out hope we can pass it by vote. I don't know if we've ever voted on a hotel tax before. The people of California did vote in Jerry Brown's sales tax increase to get us out of debt. Never say never. This city loves SDCC, if it's framed as needed to keep it, that could work too.

I'm not rushing down there with my hard hat, but I'm not prepared to be so negative about it either.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: dcuodust on September 02, 2015, 11:33:40 AM
What is Comic-Con International's position on this? Or have they not commented? What would be the reaction from the city if CCI just came out and said "approve some type of expansion or we are leaving after 2018"?
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: DaveG on September 02, 2015, 12:43:27 PM
I hate being negative, so I really, really, really hope I'm wrong.

I'm not sure if CCI has officially announced anything.  I would think they would encourage any development that expands the current facilities.  I know they were totally behind the last plan that fell through.

However, they have been very hesitant to issue ultimatums and I don't see that changing here.  They will probably say something to the effect that they continue to assess all options and will do whatever is in the best interest of their attendees.  That's probably as close as they'll get to saying they might leave.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: hikanteki on September 02, 2015, 01:09:41 PM
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The people of California did vote in Jerry Brown's sales tax increase to get us out of debt. Never say never.

Not the people of San Diego however.

http://graphics.latimes.com/2012-election-results-california/
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: ceddyced on September 02, 2015, 03:38:46 PM
I really hoping some type of expansion does occur.  I really enjoyed comic con more when everything was inside the convention center.  Not a fan of the campus atmosphere.  The outside events keep getting further and further away from the convention center.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on September 03, 2015, 06:04:40 AM
I agree with DaveG. CCI supported the last expansion, but never said it was a requirement for staying. If it were a requirement for staying, CCI would not have signed a new contract for years after 2016.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Jim Watari on September 03, 2015, 08:09:44 AM
Well the Marriott is expanding and adding more meeting room space , so I'm not really worried about them leaving

http://www.marriott.com/hotel-info/sandt-marriott-marquis-san-diego-marina/meetings-expansion/x7oexlj/home-page.mi
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on September 06, 2015, 07:26:09 AM
(emphasis mine)

From: http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2015/sep/05/stadium-comic-con-wont-sink-faulconer/

Chargers, Comic-Con exit won’t sink Faulconer

Judging from all the attention they’ve received this summer, you’d think the Chargers - who weren’t even playing - and Comic-Con are two of the most important things in San Diego.

What if Kevin Faulconer became the mayor to “lose” both?

It’s certainly possible. That wouldn’t be great for the resume or legacy, but would he pay a political price? Maybe not. That’s due to his political positioning, timing and a variety of villains he could blame. And some would venture that maybe the Chargers and Comic-Con aren’t as important to the public as they are to their hard-core fans and civic leaders.

Let’s start with the stadium. It’s been quiet, but this will get white hot again in the fall with NFL meetings and a potential decision in January as to which team(s) win the Los Angeles lottery. Polls consistently show San Diegans think the Chargers will head north, so while people will be mournful, they won’t be surprised.

And they probably won’t blame the mayor too much, as he’s done an adequate job inoculating himself politically, whether you agree with his approach or not. Sure, some will say he wasted a couple-few million on an environmental impact report and other efforts. But most think he has to try, and the critics who suggest he is mostly doing this solely for political cover are few.

Besides, if the Chargers leave, he won’t be spending the $200 million that he’s offered in city taxpayer funds (along with $150 million from the county).

A single-issue stadium candidate isn’t worth discussing. Let’s face it, Chargers President Dean Spanos and his aide-de-camp Mark Fabiani will be the focus of public anger. Polls already suggest that. Should attorney Cory Briggs attempt to block a stadium deal he could also be painted as culpable by some (and heroic by others).

So that gets the mayor to the June primary, where now it looks like he will win re-election outright without a November runoff. He has no real opponent or seemingly the prospects of one.

That’s remarkable for a Republican mayor in a city where Democrats have an overwhelming voter-registration advantage and a muscular labor political operation.

That’s not to say things can’t change, but it seems something pretty bad would need to happen for Faulconer to become vulnerable.

As for Comic-Con, that wildly popular campy confab has committed to being here through 2018, even though the organizers say the convention center is too small. Faulconer recently supported a recommendation to pursue a hotel-tax increase that requires two-thirds voter approval for a waterfront expansion. We’d be talking November 2016 at the earliest.

Nobody thinks that will pass, and many believe the expansion will never happen on the waterfront. But 2018 is halfway through Faulconer’s second and final term, so when the expansion doesn’t happen and Comic-Con takes off, he can shrug and move on.


Where to, of course, will be a matter of great speculation by then. But whatever new political ground he seeks to take, maybe there will be less focus on the big rages of the day and more on, say, how he addressed our sorry roads and infrastructure and underserved neighborhoods and whether he’s leaving San Diego a well-run city.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: omraged9 on September 08, 2015, 10:45:41 PM
I don't know if this has already been discussed but does SDCC really need the convention center expansion? I mean I know the Hall H lines are terrible and they need to find more space for the lines but it seems like they've done ok in the past few years. If the lines situation is to be improved, it seems like they need to work more on the organization and sticking to the rules part, not necessarily needing a lot more space part. Sure I admit the exhibit hall itself could use a little extra space; again it's more to fit all the extra lines for signings; it doesn't seem like they're lacking space for actual exhibits. Since hotels like MMM are adding larger meeting rooms, I feel they should have enough of the big rooms to host all the TV and comic book panels they want. Do they really need to make Hall H any larger? It seems like all it'll do is make ppl sit further away from the main stage. I don't get the impression CCI wants to deal with more attendees (more attendees, more problems) which we'd expect them to do (increasse of available badges) if the convention center is expanded. So I don't get the feeling the expansion will make it or break it for CCI. I think it's more contigent on the hotel costs and blocks of rooms available.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: RustyPonds on September 09, 2015, 06:21:01 AM
Exactly omraged9!

CCI has officially said that expansion is not their main concern. Rising attendee cost, mainly due to hotels, is what worries them.

Bigger does not mean better. We don't need more badged attendees on top of un-badged people who come down to enjoy the festivities. Can you imagine the Gaslamp on Saturday with an additional 50,000 attendees walking around?!

The Convention center has long-overdue repairs, and maybe some modernization, but I kind of agree with a lot of San Diego residence; Do we need to spend that money on extra space when it will go unused 95% of the time?

Only SDCC pushes the limits and, once again, they are not sticklers for expansion.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Bert Su on September 28, 2015, 08:46:48 PM
I don't want to argue about whether or not Comic Con should expand, but if it does expand, Comic Con should make a 4 story tall convention center. If Comic Con needs an extra million dollars to make it happen, they can simply charge every attendee an extra 7 dollars.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on October 17, 2015, 08:05:54 PM
Intere$ting numbers to crunch:

From: http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2015/oct/17/mayor-sidesteps-key-convention-center-questions/

Shareholders expect executives to make profit-maximizing business decisions, so voters shouldn’t be surprised when political calculus drives the infrastructure decisions of government leaders.

The trick for politicians is to avoid appearing hungry for re-election. This is why we hear so much about how this or that public project is good for business, and surely will boost the economy. Nobody says, “let’s build this because it’s really cool, and I will seem like a great builder at election time.”

Along with a new suburban stadium for the reluctant Chargers, San Diego Mayor Kevin Faulconer has hitched his edificial ambitions to a consultant’s report that predicts vast new revenue if the city expands its downtown convention center toward the bay instead of building a separate “campus” venue two blocks away at Tailgate Park. The mayor plans to ask voters in 2016 for a tax hike to fund construction.

To my reading, the report has holes big enough to drive Comic-Con through. For example, it says a $549 million contiguous expansion won’t succeed without additional “public support” for a large, new “headquarters hotel” with 1,600 rooms or more. Yet the public cost for this private hotel remains a mystery, a major detail that could complicate the mayor’s bid to convince voters.

What’s more, forecasts for relative revenue gains depend mostly on a contiguous expansion snagging one more large convention a year. That makes sense, but then the report discounts possibilities for a campus venue to boost the overall number of mid-sized conventions that also feed the local economy.

And it completely ignores the potential for a campus to perform double-duty as the Chargers’ preferred site for an NFL stadium, at lower overall cost than Faulconer’s single-purpose proposal in Mission Valley.

Besides, the report hasn’t nearly settled a behind-the-scenes struggle among downtown power brokers over the location of new convention space, contiguous or up the street.

Local developer JMI Realty, which owns land suitable for a headquarters hotel between Tailgate Park and the convention center, badly wants a campus building that would funnel visitors its direction. Not incidentally, JMI also owns nearby property destined for residential and office space, where East Village occupants would lose views and easy access to the bayfront if the center expands to the water.

In contrast, the out-of-towners who own the Hilton, Hyatt and Marriott hotels next to the center have little financial interest in welcoming a big new competitor, but every reason to cheer a publicly funded contiguous expansion that could boost room rates.

Meanwhile, the Marriott is spending $100 million to expand its internal meeting space - competing directly with the convention center that fills its rooms. This suggests that at least one savvy market participant sees unmet demand for smaller conferences.

Did last expansion pay off?

Yet for my money, this discussion of contiguous versus campus puts the cart before the horse. Faulconer has sidestepped the key question of whether any expansion makes sense in the first place.

Even if San Diego were rolling in cash - which it isn’t - the business case for spending well more than a half-billion taxpayer dollars is thin, to put it mildly.

To see what I mean, let’s see how the last expansion went.

In 2001, San Diego spent $216 million to effectively double the center’s event space, to 816,100 square feet. The post-expansion total includes 525,700 square feet of the contiguous space most desired by convention booking firms, enough to cover nine football fields.

Back in the late 1990s, the reasoning of expansion boosters was remarkably similar to today’s: A bigger venue would draw bigger events, lifting the economy with tourism dollars and generating tax revenue. If the center didn’t expand, the theory went, other cities with growing venues would poach events and hurt the local economy.

So how did that turn out? It’s impossible to prove a historical negative, so we’ll never know whether choosing not to expand would have hurt overall convention business.

But it’s also hard to find dramatic growth produced by the last expansion, based on my analysis of official statistics supplied by the San Diego Convention Center Corp., the nonprofit that operates the venue.

Hotel taxes provide the most striking example. In 2014, the city collected $18.8 million in levies on hotel stays attributed directly to conventions, trade shows and other events. In nominal terms, that’s up slightly from $17.9 million collected in 1999, the last full year before expansion construction disrupted events.

Real tax revenue fell

However, after adjusting for inflation, this works out to a 31 percent drop in city revenue. This is an astonishing statistic, so astonishing that I’ve been on a quest over several weeks to figure out how a world-class tourism magnet like San Diego could do such a mediocre job of attracting tangible convention dollars.

One possibility is that my analysis is flawed; that comparing 1999 to 2014 is unfair because the former was a boom year, while the center still hasn’t recovered from the 2008-09 recession. Mark Emch, the convention center’s chief financial officer, suggested instead comparing the 10-year average through 2014 to the decade before the 2001 expansion.

I could quibble. The first decade included figures depressed by construction and the original convention center’s early years, while the recent decade included inflated business during the housing bubble.

Yet I took his advice and crunched the decade averages. The result, while improved, is also sobering: Hotel taxes increased by 15 percent after inflation.

Put another way, the most optimistic look at the past suggests that expanding the center by 100 percent lifted annual public revenues by just 15 percent.

Before I get carried away, let’s stipulate that you can’t buy groceries with a percentage. In terms of hard cash, hotel taxes did increase by about $3 million a year in real terms (using the 10-year average).

Benefits go beyond taxes

On its own, $3 million a year doesn’t nearly justify spending $216 million in public funds. But cities build convention centers to help downtown economies, not as standalone investments.

On that score, San Diego did better. From 1999 through 2014, the center’s post-expansion economic impact fell by 3 percent. That represents a decline of $44 million a year, a perceptible but minor reduction to estimated annual economic benefits of $1.38 billion in pre-expansion 1999.

Once again, the 10-year comparison tells a much better story, with the pre-2009 boom years helping to produce an average increase of 38 percent, or $407 million a year.

By way of caveat, convention center consultants tend to produce optimistic estimates of economic impact. And most of the spending sticks to hotels and downtown restaurants.

Still, boosting the number of visitors puts very real cash in the pockets of working families, as well as downtown investors.

This raises the refreshingly tangible metric of attendance. From 1999 to 2014, convention center attendance grew by 44 percent to 549,000 people, a figure that includes local events.

Here again, context is helpful. Nearly all this attendance growth was driven by two big events: Comic-Con added 88,000 people over the 15 years, while the Rock ‘N’ Roll Marathon added 60,000 attendees.

Key events deliver big gains

This is great for the local economy. And it bolsters the argument for contiguous expansion by highlighting the power of big events.

But it also suggests San Diego’s convention business hasn’t grown much during the other 50 weeks a year. When you remove the growth of Comic-Con and the marathon from the numbers, total attendance grew by just 3 percent from 1999 to 2014.

Yet there are other indications the 2001 expansion didn’t quite pay off.

For openers, the convention center loses money on operations, requiring $4.6 million a year from city taxpayers to ostensibly break even, in addition to $12.6 million to repay expansion debt.

Nevertheless, such subsidies are far from sufficient. Carpet is threadbare. Bathroom grout is missing. Some toilet seats have the white worn off. The center needs $44 million for repairs over the next five years, officials say. If this is San Diego’s front porch, we’re not exactly wowing the neighbors.

Market demands discounts

As for market conditions, officials have relied on heavy discounting to land convention business. This year the center expects to collect $9 million in rent, after giving $5.2 million in rental credits. Whereas Comic-Con collected a minimum of $35 a day last year from each attendee, its rent works out to $1.15 per person.

Over-supply and competition add pressure to San Diego, despite its appeal as a fabulous destination. From 2000 through 2014, U.S. cities built 37 percent more convention-center space as attendance grew by just 4 percent, according to industry data compiled by Heywood Sanders, a University of Texas public administration professor whose book, “Convention Center Follies,” documents a litany of money-losing projects.

Ironically, San Diego’s mayor uses such rampant overbuilding to bolster his case, noting that Los Angeles, San Francisco and Anaheim plan or have begun expansions.

“An expansion will help the Convention Center remain competitive and help to support major events like Comic-Con - and attract more to San Diego,” said Matt Awbrey, Faulconer’s chief spokesman, via email last week.

This brings us back to the mayor’s rosy report, which was prepared by CSL International.

Conventioneers want contiguity

The consultant’s forecasts tilt heavily toward a contiguous expansion rather than a campus-style second building. In general terms, this makes perfect sense. Companies that buy space at conventions overwhelmingly prefer to be in the main hall. Conventioneers will skip a booth if it involves going up an escalator or outside, let alone walking down the street.

For example, the overall convention center is booked nearly 70 percent of the year in San Diego. But the semi-outdoor Sails Pavilion portion of the center, which strikes me as surpassingly appealing, is booked about half the time.

However, the CSL’s financial forecasts invite a healthy dose of skepticism. Take taxes, for example.

Recall that the 2001 expansion, which added roughly 400,000 square feet of sellable space, boosted average hotel taxes from pre-expansion totals by just $3 million a year in constant dollars. But CSL apparently didn’t look at this history, because it projects $6.3 million in new taxes if San Diego adds a contiguous 372,000 square feet. (It estimates the campus expansion, at 225,000 square feet, would increase the tax haul by a more plausible $2.4 million.)

Similar swings between contiguous optimism and campus realism are apparent throughout the report.

Bear in mind that consultants are generally paid to justify projects. A recent CSL report on Los Angeles, for example, warned that its convention center was crippled by lack of nearby hotel rooms - but the consultant recommended expansion anyway.

Report omits wider context

And to be fair, the consultant was decidedly not asked to compare San Diego’s expansion to other uses of public funds. Local interest groups and city planners hope that the eastern part of San Diego’s downtown will explode into a thriving residential and commercial hub. Will such newcomers value more conventions?

Based on the numbers, it seems clear that the completion of Convention Center 1.0 in 1989 spurred growth in hotels, conventions and tourism, which has been great for downtown. Yet the evidence also suggests the 2001 expansion delivered diminishing returns.

The big question is why. Perhaps the government-funded, nonprofit center has operational, structural or strategic problems. Or maybe the market for conventions and trade shows has changed since the 9/11 attacks and Great Recession.

Yet San Diego’s mayor isn’t asking such questions, at least that I can tell. Through a spokesman, I’ve asked Faulconer whether his independent financial experts have run the historical numbers and, if not, why on earth he would rely so heavily on forecasts by convention-industry consultants.

So far, the mayor hasn’t ventured a specific response. Instead, his spokesman pointed to a 2011 consultant’s report that says convention visitors spend four times as much as leisure tourists.

Fair enough. But such estimates don’t begin to explain why San Diego’s last expansion has been underwhelming, let alone unveil the wisdom in the next one. And they shed no light on the long-running struggle over where to build it, and how such a choice fits into a larger plan for downtown development.

Maybe the mayor will offer better information before Election Day 2016. It makes perfect political sense to try to prevent Comic-Con as well as the Chargers from leaving town, but San Diego’s famously frugal voters may require a robust discussion of the business tradeoffs, too.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on October 22, 2015, 09:16:12 AM
From: http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2015/oct/21/initiative-raises-hotel-tax-stadium-backup-plan/

New life for convention center expansion, stadium?

Attorney Cory Briggs Wednesday night announced plans to begin circulating a wide-ranging initiative that would raise San Diego's hotel room tax to 15.5 percent while creating a mechanism to expand the convention center, build a stadium downtown and raise money for tourism promotion.

His intent is to qualify the proposed measure for next June's ballot, although it is unclear where the funds would come from to finance what would be a costly signature-gathering effort.

In announcing plans to launch the ballot measure process, Briggs touted the multiple goals of the initiative, among them a way forward to settle pending litigation related to a hotelier-approved surcharge for tourism marketing and Coastal Commission approval of an expansion of the convention center on the waterfront.

The "Pay Their Own Way" initiative, as Briggs is calling it, would also phase out the city's hotelier-run Tourism Marketing District, which relies on a 2 percent surcharge on hotel rooms to finance tourism promotion. The city's current transient occupancy tax stands at 10.5 percent, plus the 2 percent tourism marketing levy.

Briggs has challenged the legality of the hotel levy, and a trial date of Nov. 6 has been set for his suit, which the city and hoteliers had unsuccessfully sought to dismiss.

He already succeeded in a legal challenge of the city's plans to finance an expansion of the convention center with a hotelier-approved hike in the hotel tax. A judge ruled that the plan was unconstitutional because it was not voted on by the electorate. Cities up and down the state have implemented marketing districts similar to San Diego's in an effort to promote their areas as hotel tax dollars were increasingly diverted to fund city services.

Among the initiative's aims are:

-- Generating at least $18 million a year in new hotel tax revenue that could be used to expand city services and infrastructure.

-- Creating incentives for developing an offsite convention center expansion that would be funded by hotel owners.

-- Allowing the city’s current plans for a new Chargers stadium in Mission Valley to move forward, while at the same time offering up a backup plan for a downtown stadium. The measure, however, would not authorize spending any taxpayer dollars on a new Chargers playing field.

-- Prohibiting any contiguous expansion of the convention center on the waterfront.

Briggs, who represents a citizens group known as San Diegans for Open Government, said the organization is not promoting the ballot measure. The backers, he said, will be revealed at a press conference he has scheduled for Thursday morning.

The measure comes at a time when city leaders are not only trying to keep the Chargers from moving to Los Angeles where they have plans to build a new stadium in Carson, but to also expand the convention center in hopes of luring larger, more financially lucrative conventions. It remains unclear whether San Diego's hotel and tourism community will support the measure. While hotel executives are aware of Briggs' efforts, they have not publicly said whether they would back such an initiative.

While recognizing the city continues to pursue efforts to build a new stadium at the current Qualcomm site, the initiative states that in the event that it is no longer used for an NFL team, the 166-acre site should be sold to San Diego State University, UC San Diego, the San Diego Community Colleges and the the San Diego River Conservancy. Such a sale, however, would require that the portions of the area be reserved for parkland and recreational uses, as well as for university-related facilities, such as campus and faculty housing and classrooms.

Even if Briggs and his supporters succeed in qualifying the measure for the ballot, backers will face a tough battle in getting it passed. Voters in San Diego have regularly defeated tax increases, although Briggs says his initiative would require only a simple majority to approve it, not a two-thirds majority.

Meanwhile, a grassroots Chargers group, the San Diego Stadium Coalition, with a mailing list of 20,000, immediately endorsed Briggs' initiative and committed to raising $50,000 toward the signature-gathering effort. On its GoFundMe fundraising website, the coalition notes that any money raised will be matched by Briggs, his clients and other interested parties.

"We strongly believe that this initiative gives the citizens of San Diego our last and best chance to keep the Chargers and Comic-Con right here in our backyard," said coalition co-founder Jason Riggs. " However, this is far from over. There’s a massive amount of work ahead of us.”
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Vapors on October 22, 2015, 11:13:39 AM
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-- Prohibiting any contiguous expansion of the convention center on the waterfront.


Well that kinda kills it for me.  Where would they be expanding the center then?
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: RustyPonds on October 23, 2015, 06:26:27 AM
A half-mile away I believe, at Tailgate Park.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on October 23, 2015, 06:35:25 AM
I could see it working, if they had significant programming there... Enough to draw the crowds away.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: mdla on October 25, 2015, 04:11:38 PM
More writing on the wall for the Chargers moving to LA:
http://laist.com/2015/10/25/chargers_to_relocate_to_la_maybe.php
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: susanml10881 on October 25, 2015, 06:06:21 PM
I think it's pretty much a given that they're out the door. They're just jerking people around now. Can we just keep Comic Con?

I guess they don't have to expand the center but it does at least need repairs and upgrades. It would be nice to have more room to move around, and more exhibitor space.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: janray on October 26, 2015, 05:45:24 AM
I'm pretty sure that the days of having room to move around are long gone.  More space = more ticket sales = no more space.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Mel on October 26, 2015, 07:43:11 AM
Not necessarily. Glanzer claims they feel they are at their cap for the attendance they can handle and still put on a good show. He claimed even with more space, they would not make more badges available.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: ahbbb on October 26, 2015, 08:09:37 AM

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He claimed even with more space, they would not make more badges available.

That is an interesting statement.
So many people want the expansion thinking more tickets would be sold and then they would have improved their odds of attending.

how do you justify additional cost for expansion without additional revenue?
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Mel on October 26, 2015, 08:44:18 AM
They wouldn't get much additional revenue for the Convention Center anyhow, it's a flat rate that is paid. You could say more concessions or something I guess if more people attended. The expansion would be in hope to keep it, period. Either keep all the revenue it brings in or lose it all-together because they move somewhere with more room. Places with more room are really hard to find though.

The expand or lose SDCC thing has really been in large part a media and fan speculation creation, though. CCI has only pointed to the hotel room prices as the main reason they would leave and have explicitly said that they have been fine figuring out ways to make it work in the space with hotels and venues collaborating for the "campus." That said they also said they'd love an expansion, but it's not what staying or going hangs on for them.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on October 26, 2015, 08:57:40 AM
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That is an interesting statement.
So many people want the expansion thinking more tickets would be sold and then they would have improved their odds of attending.

how do you justify additional cost for expansion without additional revenue?

CCI is non-profit and they do have a rather large 'reserve fund' so I don't think additional revenue is their primary concern. Of course, if it were, they could always raise badge prices.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: susanml10881 on October 31, 2015, 07:45:17 PM
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That is an interesting statement.
So many people want the expansion thinking more tickets would be sold and then they would have improved their odds of attending.

how do you justify additional cost for expansion without additional revenue?

CCI isn't demanding an expansion. The city was debating it since the center is aging and they want to compete for larger conventions.

Hmm, interesting about badges. People were crying for expansion or cci to move to a bigger center so they had a better chance to attend. Or so they thought. If they're not planning to sell more badges either way, then a move is moot, no?

If they're not planning on adding badges, would they add more exhibitors then if there is an expansion? They'd have more space for booths. Or panels/ side events/ shows.

It'd spread attendees out at least a little.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: juliafrood on November 13, 2015, 12:50:12 AM
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how do you justify additional cost for expansion without additional revenue?

They make most of their revenue from vendors, studios, and other marketing, I guarantee.  While June is also right about revenue not being their main concern, they will ABSOLUTELY be able to make more money with more space.  I've worked locally with two smaller conventions and both make more money from vendors and ad space than from badges.  More floor space will move some of the off-site attractions inside and let them bring more artists, studios, and other organisations that desperately want to rent space off of the wait-list. 

10 years ago having more attendees might have been a priority for selling marketing opportunities, but now everyone is so wired and connected that studios would rather offer a buzz-worthy experience that will go viral than pack a million people into a booth.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on December 27, 2015, 07:49:53 AM
San Diego gets a Comic-Con deadline

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2015/dec/27/port-convention-expansion-hotel-comic-con/

Either way, San Diego will survive. But no local politician, let alone Mayor Kevin Faulconer, wants to lose both the Chargers and Comic-Con.

This is really all the political context we need to ponder the business implications of a cryptic letter sent to the City Council this month from Fifth Avenue Landing, a company that can either assist or complicate the city’s moribund plan to expand the convention center.

If nothing else, the letter offers a window into the cozy relationships that have long governed how the Port of San Diego, a government agency, conducted its business. And it offers a contrast to recent changes in the port’s behavior that could benefit the public.

The proprietors of Fifth Avenue Landing are Ray Carpenter and Art Engel, prominent businessmen and influential port tenants for at least four decades. On Dec. 14 they delivered the letter to Councilman David Alvarez, with copies to every other councilmember.

It informed the council of “an informal agreement we have reached with the mayor,” as follows: The two are giving the city until March 1 to revive an option to acquire - for $13.8 million - their leasehold on about six acres that stands between the convention center and San Diego Bay.

After March 1, the company will pursue a big development, a “400-room or more hotel” on the site, as required by their lease with the port.

Whether this is a gracious offer or a shakedown depends on your point of view.

“I see the letter as a red flag,” said Alvarez. “This is a horrible, horrible deal for the city.”

The councilman is not a real estate appraiser. Yet he notes that the company has merely eight years left on its 40-year lease.

Besides, this particular hotel development seems like a long shot. Permits would involve an update to the port’s master plan, a stop at the nettlesome Coastal Commission, and inevitable lawsuits. Although the port would extend its lease by 66 years for a successful project, just getting the chance could easily burn through eight years, not to mention millions of dollars.


Site once considered key

Less than a year ago, many city officials considered this land - sans hotel - vital to expansion of the convention center, which in turn was judged essential to keeping Comic-Con and other major shows from bolting for larger venues in other cities. That’s why the public agency that runs the convention center had paid the company $4 million since 2008 for the option to spend $13.8 million more to take over the leasehold.

But the initial payments were made before Cory Briggs, a public interest lawyer, convinced a court last year that San Diego’s hotel tax hike was illegal, wiping out funding for the expansion. By May, the convention center defaulted on its lease option.

The mayor, who continues to support expansion, seems unconcerned with the company’s letter, let alone its March 1 deadline. And he wants it made clear that he reached no agreement, informal or otherwise.

More to the point, he doesn’t appear to think a big new hotel would block a future expansion.

“Based on previous conversations with their consultant, we understand that there may be an option that incorporates a smaller waterfront expansion and their hotel project,” said Craig Gustafson, Faulconer’s press secretary.

Incidentally, that consultant is the ubiquitous Charles Black, who negotiated the lease in question as the port’s development consultant, then worked for the city on the expansion plan, and now works for Carpenter and Engel. When it comes to selling advice in San Diego, it pays to be nimble.

Despite the permitting hurdles, the hotel opportunity is well worth pursuing to Engel, who says they probably should have used the term “offer” instead of “agreement” in the letter.

“Ray Carpenter and I are good citizens of San Diego,” Engel said. “We gave them the best opportunity to expand. If they don’t want to expand, that’s OK.”


Lease calls for hotel pitch

An important detail: The port’s lease requires the company to propose a hotel development according to a timeline that started when the convention center defaulted on its expansion option. The port wants development.

“The downtown hotel market is running at a very high capacity ratio,” he said. “They need more hotel rooms downtown to support the convention center. We have the absolute best site for a hotel.”

We shall see if the market supports such optimism. Their previous hotel proposal, made during history’s biggest real estate bubble, failed amid the 2008 financial crisis.

Then, in 2010, the pair agreed to sell the leasehold without a hotel to the city for its preferred, larger convention center expansion. Now that’s on life support.

Still, businesspeople generally become rich people through a combination of determination, good luck and hard work. So I’m certainly not surprised that these two would seek to maximize their investment.

A more interesting story lies in how that investment on the site - essentially a parking lot - grew over time, with help from the port.

Carpenter, who owned a maritime construction firm, signed a 40-year lease on the site in 1984. His lease specified maritime uses, but Carpenter was certainly looking ahead: At the time, San Diego was seeking Coastal Commission approval to build its original bayfront convention center.

Engel (with family members) became his partner five years later. The next decades featured a series of lease amendments. Most were routine.


Upgrade adds to potential

One, in 2003, allowed the company to propose a hotel development, a concession that modified the site’s approved use - and substantially boosted the potential value of the lease.

Here’s what didn’t happen: The port didn’t invite competing proposals from major hotel companies for the new, higher use.

Sure, such proposals would have suffered the cost of compensating Fifth Avenue Landing for the unused remainder of its maritime lease. But at least the port could have gauged the market value of a leasehold with upgraded development options.

Carpenter and Engel, who hold several other leases around the bay, have achieved similar upgrades, often to accommodate further investment, capital improvements, and new jobs. They aren’t alone: The port has made similar deals with plenty of other tenants since its inception in 1962.

Most shared a common thread: When the port made a deal, it preferred exclusive negotiations with tenants in good standing. Outsiders have claimed for years that the port was closed to them, for good reason.

From the port’s perspective, this may very well be good business. Tenants wield political power. And nobody wants a failed newcomer cluttering up the bay.

Still, the risk of leaving money on the table accrues to the public. Unlike most government agencies, the port doesn’t subsist on tax revenues.

Instead, the port depends entirely on its skill in landlording over 34 miles of public tideland across five cities. Much of that activity is decidedly costly, from maintaining 20 parks to running its own police department.


Port opens to outsiders

But now the doctrine of tenant primogeniture is being tested.

After 69 years, Anthony’s Fish Grotto is losing its prime location on the downtown waterfront. The Brigantine Restaurant won an open competition with its offer to pay higher rent and build $1 million boat dock.

What’s more, the port is just getting started. In October, its board opened a competition to redevelop Seaport Village, one the best pieces of real estate in the nation. Notably, the agency rejected a lease renewal and redevelopment offer from Terramar Retail Centers. The company still has an opportunity, but not an inside track.

Next comes redevelopment of Harbor Island. At 57 acres and $1 billion or more, it’s arguably the port’s biggest project ever. And the world’s top developers are invited to make proposals.

The concept is simple: Open competition tends to produce the best outcome for consumers, which in this case is the San Diego public.

“I feel really good about the process,” said Dan Malcolm, the Imperial Beach commissioner who is chairman of the port’s governing board. “We want the very best, world-class development on the waterfront for the next 50 years.”

It’s certainly possible that this agency could revert to form. These giant deals could end up with the usual handful of local developers.

But for now, it appears that a new sheriff is in town. If San Diego’s mayor gets serious about building more space for Comic-Con and other customers, the port may insist on considering a wider cast of characters to make it happen.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on December 27, 2015, 09:39:02 AM
Thanks for posting this! I agree, it's an interesting insight. I would love to see a new hotel opened next to the convention center, if the expansion isn't going to happen (and I've mentally given up on the expansion since the hotel tax was declared 'illegal').

Where exactly is this 6 acre site? Does anyone have a map that shows it?
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: DaveG on December 27, 2015, 12:46:23 PM
Sigh.  Expansion or hotel, either would be a positive development.  But when I see things like the mayor not being concerned about the March 1 deadline, it just tells me there is no sense of urgency, which is exactly what led to the Chargers leaving.  No one seems in a hurry.  Yes, I get that they don't want to make any mistakes, but year after year we get more articles and talk.  Now the Chargers are all but gone, but they don't seem to be learning anything from that.

Anyway, I really don't see SDCC leaving.  It seems like CCI is willing to be flexible in making due with what they have.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: admiral-lira on December 28, 2015, 12:17:11 AM


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Where exactly is this 6 acre site? Does anyone have a map that shows it?

If I'm not mistaken is the parking lot and  park between the convention center and the waterfront where hall H line for next day forms.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: citizenmilton on January 12, 2016, 05:11:04 PM
The news is breaking tonight that the Chargers are relocating to LA.

I've read a number of news articles on the proposed expansion and a few of them seemed to indicate that if the Chargers moved, it could be a factor that could increase the likelihood of the convention center expansion happening. Don't know how solid that argument is, or whether it'd be a significant factor at all. But, perhaps this is one step toward progress on this front?

Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: frgx on January 12, 2016, 05:56:09 PM
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000621645/article/rams-approved-to-relocate-to-los-angeles

The Rams were approved and the Chargers were given the option to join the Rams. The Raiders stay in Oakland.
 :-\
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: UntrueBeliever on January 12, 2016, 07:31:57 PM
Hopefully, they take the Chargers with them.

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: DaveG on January 12, 2016, 07:38:19 PM
I guess if the Chargers pass on relocation, then the option goes to the Raiders.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Bert Su on January 12, 2016, 09:36:12 PM
If Comic Con expands, they should let in more attendees because that's what a strong majority of Comic Con fans want. I dislike the minority of people in the current attendees trying to find good arguments to keep everyone else out.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: juliafrood on January 13, 2016, 12:33:31 AM
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If Comic Con expands, they should let in more attendees because that's what a strong majority of Comic Con fans want. I dislike the minority of people in the current attendees trying to find good arguments to keep everyone else out.

Whether I want CCI to offer more badges, and whether I think it is likely that they will offer more badges, and whether I think it's logistically possible to offer more badges even with an expansion, are all different issues.

I would love for everyone who wants to attend comic con to be able to attend.  That would be an almost 10 fold increase just going by current numbers though, and even that assumes popularity levels off, which is unlikely.

Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on January 13, 2016, 08:06:10 AM
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I guess if the Chargers pass on relocation, then the option goes to the Raiders.

That is correct. It was all over the news last night. I wanted the Raiders gone from Oakland soooooo badly, and they were the third choice! Ugh. The only good news for me is that they still seem eager to move. But I'm stuck with them for another year or so at least. Yuck.

I'm crossing my fingers that the Chargers move, though! Take away all of that opposition!
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: semigeekgirl on January 13, 2016, 08:39:02 AM
I'm torn. I sort of want the Chargers to move, because I think they been awful to SD and it's clear they want to leave, so staying seems like it would be bad for them and their fans.

On the other hand, I'm in LA. I'm super bummed we're getting one team, let alone two. Although it seems like two is inevitable at this point. Ugh.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: ceddyced on January 13, 2016, 09:30:42 AM
Please stay in San Diego Chargers. WE DONT WANT YOU!!!
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: perc2100 on January 13, 2016, 11:16:04 AM
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I'm torn. I sort of want the Chargers to move, because I think they been awful to SD and it's clear they want to leave, so staying seems like it would be bad for them and their fans.

On the other hand, I'm in LA. I'm super bummed we're getting one team, let alone two. Although it seems like two is inevitable at this point. Ugh.
1. The last year has turned me off almost entirely on the NFL period.  It is painfully obvious that ALL of this is 100% about greed, and as a fan/customer of the product that really bugs me: greed over fan base/customers.  You need only realize that the team with the richest owner (i.e. the team with the owner who financially has a far better chance of success) comes from the city that is closest to a stadium deal; meanwhile, the 'poorest' owner who comes from the city that has ZERO plans/hopes of getting a stadium is the third wheel.  That makes no logistical sense to me other than the owners blatantly saying "more billions is good" and I find that a big turnoff.

2. The San Diego situation seems really soured.  Even now, city officials are seemingly thumping their chest at the Carson deal getting rejected, as if San Diego suddenly gained a plethora of leverage.  I think it's insanely unlikely the Chargers will NOT be in L.A. and have a deal in place before the March deadline (i.e. they'll be in L.A. in 2016).  After the last year of back-and-forth I'm done with The Chargers.  They have handled this poorly and tried to use the city for their own profitable gain; the city has been fairly blase as well, seemingly not 100% interested in keeping The Chargers at the cost of hundreds of millions to the city & county.  And I could care less about being "an NFL city."  I grew up in Columbus, OH, a city with zero professional sports teams when I lived there and now feature an NHL team and MLS team.  Obviously we had The Ohio State University sports (note: I'm a tOSU alum), but the city never cared to identify as a pro-sport town and no one seemed to care.  I'm fine with San Diego not being an NFL town and losing whatever BS prestige some might associate with that moniker.

3. That all being said, the ONLY proposal that would interest me as far as public-subsidized NFL stadium is the plan the Chargers want, which is downtown + part of Convention expansion.  That's a pricier plan, and would take several years longer than The Chargers want.  But I think it's a plan that would make most sense for all involved: one that as a long-time SDCCI attendee (and knowing how much it makes for the city annually: hint, FAR more than an NFL stadium makes/loses for the city) I can get behind.

I'm really just anxious to get ALL of this behind us.  If the Chargers leave, lets talk about building a smaller stadium for SDSU at the Qualcomm site, lets get an MLS team in San Diego (note: I'm a soccer fan), and lets put all of our focus/funds into a convention center expansion
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on January 13, 2016, 12:31:00 PM
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1. The last year has turned me off almost entirely on the NFL period.  It is painfully obvious that ALL of this is 100% about greed, and as a fan/customer of the product that really bugs me: greed over fan base/customers.  You need only realize that the team with the richest owner (i.e. the team with the owner who financially has a far better chance of success) comes from the city that is closest to a stadium deal; meanwhile, the 'poorest' owner who comes from the city that has ZERO plans/hopes of getting a stadium is the third wheel.  That makes no logistical sense to me other than the owners blatantly saying "more billions is good" and I find that a big turnoff.

2. The San Diego situation seems really soured.  Even now, city officials are seemingly thumping their chest at the Carson deal getting rejected, as if San Diego suddenly gained a plethora of leverage.  I think it's insanely unlikely the Chargers will NOT be in L.A. and have a deal in place before the March deadline (i.e. they'll be in L.A. in 2016).  After the last year of back-and-forth I'm done with The Chargers.  They have handled this poorly and tried to use the city for their own profitable gain; the city has been fairly blase as well, seemingly not 100% interested in keeping The Chargers at the cost of hundreds of millions to the city & county.  And I could care less about being "an NFL city."  I grew up in Columbus, OH, a city with zero professional sports teams when I lived there and now feature an NHL team and MLS team.  Obviously we had The Ohio State University sports (note: I'm a tOSU alum), but the city never cared to identify as a pro-sport town and no one seemed to care.  I'm fine with San Diego not being an NFL town and losing whatever BS prestige some might associate with that moniker.

3. That all being said, the ONLY proposal that would interest me as far as public-subsidized NFL stadium is the plan the Chargers want, which is downtown + part of Convention expansion.  That's a pricier plan, and would take several years longer than The Chargers want.  But I think it's a plan that would make most sense for all involved: one that as a long-time SDCCI attendee (and knowing how much it makes for the city annually: hint, FAR more than an NFL stadium makes/loses for the city) I can get behind.

I'm really just anxious to get ALL of this behind us.  If the Chargers leave, lets talk about building a smaller stadium for SDSU at the Qualcomm site, lets get an MLS team in San Diego (note: I'm a soccer fan), and lets put all of our focus/funds into a convention center expansion

$$$ ->

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000621841/article/nfls-return-to-la-business-deal-smiles-on-rams-hurts-others

"The celebratory mood among owners -- and in Los Angeles, where finally the NFL returns -- was about a business deal finally completed. Emphasis on business."

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2016/jan/13/chargers-nfl-stadium-san-diego-returns/

"I wouldn’t be surprised if the Chargers pivot to their 2014 plan for a hybrid stadium-convention center near Petco Park downtown."
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: FBS on January 13, 2016, 12:43:07 PM
Sitting all the way across the Atlantic, one thing that we have had a lot of over the past 12 months is NFL teams coming over and playing games in the UK. There has been a big push for it to become a mega sport here.
There will always be a core fan base here, but I think they are onto a loser in trying to turn more people into NFL fans.
We already have millions upon billions spent on football (real football, it's not Soccer
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: semigeekgirl on January 13, 2016, 12:54:33 PM
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We already have millions upon billions spent on football (real football, it's not Soccer
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: perc2100 on January 14, 2016, 09:04:33 AM
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I'm wondering if that isn't the way American football will go here. I mean, I hate football, so I'm not impartial, but I do think that the NFL's naked greed and total disrespect for fans is starting to become apparent even to people who really love football. If your team stops being your team - and if teams start moving wherever the money takes them - there's no real hometown spirit to root for.
It has certainly soured fans in San Diego, and seemingly in St. Louis
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: DaveG on January 14, 2016, 02:13:21 PM
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I'm wondering if that isn't the way American football will go here. I mean, I hate football, so I'm not impartial, but I do think that the NFL's naked greed and total disrespect for fans is starting to become apparent even to people who really love football. If your team stops being your team - and if teams start moving wherever the money takes them - there's no real hometown spirit to root for.

I came to this conclusion a long time ago.  If you really love a sport or can make it fun (i.e. Fantasy Football), then by all means enjoy it.  But don't ever think the owners really care about the fans.  They do, but only to the extent they can extract money from them.  This finally hit me with the baseball strike in 1992 when there was a long holdout with owners and players both saying they needed more money.  Prior to that I used to go to 10-12 games a year.  Haven't been back to one since.  My kids grew up not caring about baseball.  Seriously, it's hard to listen to millionaires and billionaires complain about their money.

At least here we have the Green Bay Packers who are non-profit and don't have a single greedy owner.  According to their by-laws, if the team is ever sold and decides to move all the money goes to a VFW Post.  (that may not be true, but did read it somewhere once).  I do know there are no shareholders who earn dividendsor even have the right to sell their stock.  Of course the NFL has put rules in place to prohibit any city from copying the Packer formula.  Fortunately, we've been around long enough to be grandfathered.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: semigeekgirl on January 14, 2016, 03:44:00 PM
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According to their by-laws, if the team is ever sold and decides to move all the money goes to a VFW Post.  (that may not be true, but did read it somewhere once). 

It's true, although at some point the beneficiary was changed to the Green Bay Packers Foundation. Which is slightly more self-serving, but still an actual non-profit, so no one would personally benefit from the sale.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: DaveG on January 14, 2016, 07:29:57 PM
Wow.  I guess people who want the Raiders to leave may still get their wish.  Just read that the Raiders have purchased land in San Antonio and seem determined to leave Oakland.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on January 15, 2016, 09:59:14 AM
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Wow.  I guess people who want the Raiders to leave may still get their wish.  Just read that the Raiders have purchased land in San Antonio and seem determined to leave Oakland.

Whoo hoo!  ;D

To be fair, I believe it is the owner who wants to leave Oakland. My impression is that the players themselves like the rabid fanbase here.

As for me, not being a sports person, I resent all of the television pre-emptions and the massive traffic jams that come from their games.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: perc2100 on January 15, 2016, 10:10:26 AM
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Whoo hoo!  ;D

To be fair, I believe it is the owner who wants to leave Oakland. My impression is that the players themselves like the rabid fanbase here.

As for me, not being a sports person, I resent all of the television pre-emptions and the massive traffic jams that come from their games.
To be even more fair, it seems Mark Davis has little other choice.  In CA in general it has become difficult to get public funds (i.e. tax payer dollars) to pay for pro sport stadiums & arenas.  Davis does not have tens of billions in his bank like Stan Kroenke (owner of Rams) does.  Oakland has a city law that zero tax payer dollars can go towards paying for a pro sports stadium (or something similar; maybe it's they can't raise taxes for it or something), which means Oakland's only viable solution to improving their current situation of playing in one of the dumpiest stadiums in the NFL is to move elsewhere.
Locally there is talk of The Raiders also exploring moving to San Diego, as there is a HUGE Raiders fanbase that already exists here.  Obviously if Davis is buying land in San Antonio that option seems more logical, but Davis may be just be trying to cover all of his options.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: perc2100 on January 15, 2016, 10:19:40 AM
Changing topics, this happened this week.  It got lost in the shuffle of "OMG Chargers are likely going to L.A." but is really cool for the city, and hope that SOME facilities stuff is happening is happening downtown.
http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2016/jan/12/symphony-pops-port-venue/

Quote
The San Diego Symphony won unanimous approval Tuesday to move forward with a $25 million, 10,000-seat waterfront concert venue on San Diego Bay.

The San Diego Unified Port District board authorized negotiations to work out a 66-year lease for the 3.6 acres the symphony currently occupies each summer on Embarcadero Marina Park South for its outdoor pops concerts.

“I believe you’ve come up with a world-class project, something San Diegans will benefit from for many, many generations,” last year’s port chairman, Dan Malcolm, told symphony officials.

Instead of a stage that must be set up and torn down each summer, the permanent facility would include a 4,800-square-foot stage large enough to house all the symphony musicians and covered by an acoustic bandshell.

Designed by the same London-based team, Soundforms, that worked on the London 2012 Olympics, the shell would be composed of material similar to what covers the nearby San Diego Convention Center Sail Pavilion and the Lindbergh Field’s Terminal 2 arrival plaza.


One of the goals is to minimize sound amplification and any impact on surrounding residents, including those in Coronado.

Tucker Sadler Architects has designed the complex in such a way that the public would be able to walk around the venue and hear the music without having to “perch” on the rocks that line the edge of the bay, as Commissioner Bob Nelson phrased it.

Symphony CEO Martha Gilmer said the facility would represent a “gift to the tidelands and the entire San Diego region.”

“First and foremost, we want to create a venue with superb acoustics that will be stunning ... a postcard for San Diego,” she said. “The location on the bay is a premium and we need to create a premium that matches.”

The complex would include permanent public restrooms and a food service preparation area that could operate year-round. Gilmer said the possibility of operating a year-round restaurant and even a small gift shop will be discussed during port negotiations.

The capacity could range from about 2,700 to as many 10,000 seats. By regrading the site, bleachers would no longer be necessary and the experience would resemble outdoor amphitheaters around the world. Low-water-using landscaping is also proposed.

Commissioner Rafael Castellanos said he hopes the symphony will reach out to residents who can’t afford to attend concerts. Gilmer later said the organization already plans a free concert next summer.

She said a fund-raising drive will commence immediately and offer naming-rights opportunities to major donors. The project, projected to cost between $20 million and $25 million, is currently referred to as the “San Diego Symphony Bayside Performance Center.”

The symphony, which has occupied the desired site on a summer-by-summer basis since 2004, would like to start construction in October so the permanent facility could be in place by June 2017.

But the port staff must determine if it requires a full-blown environmental impact report, finalize a lease agreement and run it past the California Coastal Commission.

If any of those steps add many months to the process, the project would have to be delayed to the summer of 2018 or later, Gilmer said.

The symphony has performed at various locations around San Diego since the 1920s, starting at the Spreckels Organ Pavilion in Balboa Park. Several years ago, the Midway Aircraft Carrier Museum proposed including a performing arts facility for the symphony and a park on top of a parking garage next to its Navy Pier location.

The port received $81,275 in rent from the symphony last year. Projections indicate the rent could rise to more than $226,000 in the second year due to more concerts, special events, some offered by other groups, and higher ticket prices.

The symphony currently pays the port $1 per ticket, 5 percent of the gross ticket sales for outside leased events and 5 percent of the gross sales of food, beverages and merchandise.

Commissioner Ann Moore, joined by other commissioners, agreed that the usual competitive bids for port property would not be needed in the symphony’s case, given its long tradition of annual waterfront use.

She also noted that the port’s long-term integrated planning effort has always envisioned such mixed uses as arts and entertainment on port tidelands.

San Diego Mayor Kevin Faulconer and arts patron Irwin Jacobs both added their support for the symphony project at the port meeting.

“I think it’s going to be one of the most remarkable places that people visit,” Faulconer said.

Jacobs, who with his wife Joan have contributed more than $100 million to the symphony, said the couple has rarely missed one of the summer concerts.

“It is time to go ahead with a much longer-term plan to make permanent improvements,” he said
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on January 16, 2016, 08:14:02 PM
(emphasis mine)

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2016/jan/15/bayfront-convention-hotel-hostel-proposed/

Hotel planned on key bayfront site $270M project could stymie convention center expansion

A San Diego developer announced Friday he is partnering with two local businessmen to develop an 831-room waterfront hotel, plus a bayside hostel, on a site considered crucial for a planned expansion of the convention center.

Plans for the $270 million project, which would occupy leased tidelands, were formally submitted this week to the San Diego Unified Port District, triggering what will likely be a lengthy approvals process culminating with a hearing before the California Coastal Commission.

Developer Robert Green, whose firm is in the midst of building a luxury downtown San Diego hotel, is collaborating on the project with Fifth Avenue Landing, a company helmed by Ray Carpenter and Art Engle, both longtime port tenants.

The proposed development would sit on a six-acre site on the bay side of the convention center that had been part of a planned $520 million expansion of the facility. That project has been stalled since a judge ruled that its financing plan is illegal because it relied on a hotel tax increase that was not approved by the voters.

The decision by Fifth Avenue Landing to move forward on a hotel project comes just a month after it sent a letter to City Council members giving the city until March 1 to exercise an option to acquire, for $13.8 million, its leasehold, situated between the convention center and San Diego Bay.

Given the breadth of the project, which includes a low-rise parking structure, an expansive rooftop garden plaza and a second hotel catering to more budget-minded guests, it would be difficult to make room for even a revised convention center expansion, said Ralph Hicks, project manager for the Fifth Avenue Landing project.

He pointed out that the company is simply fulfilling a lease obligation that requires it to develop a hotel of at least 400 rooms comparable in quality to other bayfront properties. The proposed hotel tower would rise 45 stories and is designed as a four-star property on a par with the Marriott, Hyatt and Hilton hotels already on the bayfront.

“We’ve been working with the city for 6 1/2 years, and in that time frame we have contractual obligations, so we need to get on with meeting our lease obligations,” Hicks said. “And one of the critical things left out of this discussion is the market for financing a project like this is always finite.”

He did, however, say that submitting plans to the port does not preclude the city from buying out the company’s leasehold by March 1.

“If they came in on March 1 and said they wanted to purchase it, we would back away from the hotel,” Hicks added.

News of the proposal arrived a day after Mayor Kevin Faulconer’s state of the city address in which he reaffirmed his commitment to pursue a ballot measure to expand the San Diego Convention Center on the waterfront.

Faulconer’s office on Friday suggested that the project doesn’t necessarily dash its hopes for an enlarged center.

“The mayor supports the waterfront expansion project and the economic benefits it will bring to San Diego,” said Deputy Chief of Staff Matt Awbrey. “There may be an option that incorporates a smaller waterfront expansion and the hotel project.”

Developer Robert Green, whose downtown Pendry hotel will open this year, said he was drawn to the project, given its premier location on the water. The convention center is currently served by three other bayfront hotels, all exceeding 1,000 rooms.

“This is an incredible piece of real estate, and it has the opportunity to be an iconic piece of architecture in San Diego,” said Green, whose company is working on three other hotel projects in California, besides the Pendry. “The fact we literally connect it to the convention center is a very rare opportunity. We think the market in San Diego is going to continue to grow for hospitality and travel, and we also believe there will be more conventions that will continue to come to San Diego.”

A key feature of the development is a bridge that would link the hotel to the convention center’s bayside viewing platforms.

The proposal’s inclusion of what is characterized as a “shared lodging” hotel would likely ease approval of the project by the Coastal Commission, which has been pressing hotel developers to make room in their projects for affordable lodging. Room rates could range from $110 to $150 a night, Hicks said.

Because the development would require a report evaluating its environmental impacts, the project would not likely go before the commission until early 2017, assuming San Diego port commissioners first approved the development.

Attorney Cory Briggs, who has sued the Coastal Commission over its approval of the convention center expansion on environmental grounds, offered conditional praise for the hotel project.

“Though it would not be my clients’ first choice for waterfront development, I must admit that it is an improvement over the port’s convention center proposal because it appears to protect and enhance the existing park and the public’s use of it,” he said. “That tells me the developers will be much more receptive than the port was to feedback about how to improve the project further, and I look forward to talking to them about it.”
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on January 17, 2016, 07:57:32 AM
I think it's pretty clear that the convention center attached expansion isn't likely to happen. Given that, I'm fine with a hotel (or two).
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on January 18, 2016, 08:26:34 AM
Options abound, should be a very interesting 2016 on this front.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: UntrueBeliever on January 30, 2016, 09:11:18 AM
Saw this on a sports news site via the Chargers official site:

Chargers president Dean Spanos said the team will remain in San Diego through at least the 2016 season.
"Today I decided our team will stay in San Diego for the 2016 season," Spanos said in a statement. "I look forward to working to resolve our stadium dilemma. We have an agreement to go to Inglewood in the next year, but my focus is on San Diego." Spanos has until January 2017 to exercise a move to Los Angeles.


Also, the talk is the Raiders are now looking at Vegas.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: DaveG on January 30, 2016, 10:03:41 AM
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Saw this on a sports news site via the Chargers official site:

Chargers president Dean Spanos said the team will remain in San Diego through at least the 2016 season.
"Today I decided our team will stay in San Diego for the 2016 season," Spanos said in a statement. "I look forward to working to resolve our stadium dilemma. We have an agreement to go to Inglewood in the next year, but my focus is on San Diego." Spanos has until January 2017 to exercise a move to Los Angeles.


Also, the talk is the Raiders are now looking at Vegas.

Maybe I have trust issues, but this is how I read this.  Logistically, the Chargers don't have a good viable option for 2016, so they need to play nice with San Diego so the stadium isn't empty.  And possibly they haven't closed the door on staying in San Diego, but they have a deal on the table to move and pretty much know the associated financial numbers.  If San Diego is willing to come up with an equal or more lucrative offer within the timeframe given to accept/reject the LA offer, then they will consider it. 

It may also be a ploy to try and sweeten the LA deal a bit, especially if the Raiders opt to go to San Antonio or Las Vegas.  I think LA really is looking for two teams to justify their brand new expensive stadium.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: UntrueBeliever on January 30, 2016, 10:35:34 AM
I do think LA wants to teams to cover the costs. But, the Chargers are already looking to invest in headquarters in LA, so I think they wants to leave. But they don't want to rush it. I don't think it's a strategic ploy.

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Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: perc2100 on February 01, 2016, 11:40:53 AM
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I do think LA wants to teams to cover the costs. But, the Chargers are already looking to invest in headquarters in LA, so I think they wants to leave. But they don't want to rush it. I don't think it's a strategic ploy.

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My $.02...

I think at this point, Spanos (Chargers owner) is pretty much screwed.  L.A. is embracing the return of the LA Rams, the Rams have already sold a bunch of 2016 season tickets, the Rams marketing is all in full force...and the chargers feel like the little sister tag-a-long with the cool older sister.  The Chargers are likely getting a mediocre business deal in L.A. ("tenants" of the Rams w/revenue sharing only on NFL events and ZERO revenue on all outside ventures and real estate).  There is a very small built-in Chargers fan base in L.A. (anywhere from very small to none-at-all).  And even the mayor of L.A. has said he thinks the Chargers should NOT move to L.A. and instead work it out in San Diego and be a regional rival of The Rams & any other L.A.-based team.
Moving in 2016 would likely be a bad deal, with The Chargers already so behind on everything in the market.

I think they're only other choice is to stay in San Diego, hope they sell tickets in 2016, and maybe they can strike a good deal to stay.  Worse-case for them, IMO, is they play to a moderately-filled stadium that may or may not be mostly away fans (which Spanos pocketing ticket revenue regardless of who fans root for), the ballot fails in San Diego (either they can't reach a deal or residents vote down the use of tax money, as poles currently indicate will happen in a not-even-really-close margin), and the first day Spans can move the team to L.A. in Jan. 2017 he will.  Then he'll have maximum time to build hype, The Rams will have a year to lose steam a tad and the NFL and Chargers can focus all the hype on L.A. NEWEST NFL team.  It might also be plausible that Chargers have a better season and don't embarrass themselves further competitively (their 4-12 record was bad, but what was historically awful is the Chargers when O-fer in their division for the first time this millennium, and the first time in several decades) to help build hype in L.A.

I think they're moving short of a minor miracle; even if the city hands the Chargers a downtown stadium like they want, the chances of the public voting on an even larger financial commitment seem slim/none.  I do think The Chargers are at least slightly playing the city right now, in order to tread water/bide time until they can have a slightly-better roll-out in 2017.  I honestly think Spanos is in a baaaaaad place, as seemingly the city's population is unhappy with the team after they sucked last year AND their lawyer aggressively played the relocation stuff & poisoned the well, so to speak.  The deal in L.A. is not what they were hoping for, and the NFL kind of put them in a bad situation.  BUT, they will still have a significantly higher net-worth in L.A. being tenants of Kroenke, drawing not-a-lot-of home fan interest, etc. than if they built a new stadium in San Diego.  I think they're going to leave.

I just hope this doesn't obfuscate the situation with the Convention Center: an actual money-making investment for the city that is in dire need of repairing/expanding.  Of course, I am biased about that convention center thing...
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on February 19, 2016, 02:08:14 PM
More number$ and angles to crunch:

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2016/feb/16/san-diego-hotel-tax-tourism-marketing-lawsuit/

With tourism dollars, no discernible Plan B
City officials appear to lack backup plan for court defeat


After I started my first company, which depended entirely on a handful of major customers, my dad offered the following kindly insight: “Hey big shot: You’re only one or two phone calls away from oblivion.”

Dad was correct, of course. Such vulnerability forced me to pay attention to diversifying revenue, as well as maintain a Plan B for meeting payroll and otherwise staying in business when the hammer fell.

So I’m surprised that San Diego’s giant hotel industry and city officials appear to lack a backup plan for their shared marketing efforts.

On Jan. 27 a judge declined to dismiss a lawsuit by activist attorney Cory Briggs claiming that San Diego’s 2 percent surcharge on hotel stays amounts to an illegal tax. The decision focused on a technicality, with the judge ruling that Briggs’ clients had legal standing to sue.

Still, the industry made a big bet on getting the suit tossed, having spent at least $2.2 million through January in legal fees attacking the standing of Briggs’ client, a group called San Diegans for Open Government. The hoteliers failed.

Now the lawsuit will be decided on the merits, with a pretrial conference scheduled in March.

Hoteliers argue that the 2 percent surcharge on bills is an industry self-assessment, and not a tax at all. Briggs says it’s a tax in disguise, requiring a public vote that wasn’t taken.

If Briggs wins, the San Diego Tourism Marketing District, a quasi-government entity, will lose more than $30 million a year it collects from hotel bills. This would cripple the TMD’s ability to reach potential visitors, as well as eliminate roughly 70 percent of the revenue available to the Tourism Authority, a separate nonprofit that promotes the region worldwide.

I can’t tell if officials are worried about losing in court. And nobody in charge would discuss whether a Plan B even exists.

“We typically don't engage in hypotheticals,” said Craig Gustafson, spokesman for Mayor Kevin Faulconer. “The mayor strongly believes that a funding mechanism for tourism promotion is needed .”

A spokeswoman for the tourism district, on behalf of chairman and hotelier Bill Evans, declined to comment at all, as did Michael Colantuono, the attorney representing the city and district.

Officials typically refuse to discuss legal strategy with a trial pending. But I don’t get why prudent contingency planning should be top secret.

If somebody doesn’t replace this funding, the economic ripples could be wide and lingering.

An estimated 34 million visitors to the region spent $10 billion last year, the tourism authority says. That spending was up 7.7 percent from 2014, which was up 9.7 percent from 2013, a year in which marketing spending crashed because former Mayor Bob Filner sequestered the TMD money.

We know that people want to visit San Diego, yet it stands to reason that doing less marketing will result in fewer arrivals, all things being equal. If marketing didn’t work, the world would have no funny Super Bowl ads.

Now, before we get carried away, individual hotels surely would continue their own marketing efforts. Tourist-mageddon does not loom.

Then again, evaporation of TMD revenue is just the beginning of the risks posed by the Briggs lawsuit.

The city of San Diego is a co-defendant. If the court rules that the city has been collecting an illegal tax, the hotel industry could immediately demand a $30 million refund, because the law limits refunds of illegal taxes to one year, Briggs says.

This explains why the city has held $30 million of TMD collections in reserve against litigation, and perhaps why hoteliers refused to indemnify the city.

Maybe Plan B for local hotels boils down to extracting money from the city.

Hoteliers could find the cash convenient. Their statute of limitations is four years. Some ambitious attorney could file class action lawsuits seeking refunds for every guest, from every hotel.

“If we win the case, not only does the city owe the money for one year, but the hoteliers also are on line for four years of the tax,” Briggs said last week.

If the stakes seem clear, the legal outcome certainly is not.

Briggs is evidently a smart lawyer. He beat the city in a strikingly similar suit: In 2014, California’s Fourth District Court of Appeal ruled that San Diego’s hotelier-approved increase in room taxes to fund a convention center expansion was unconstitutional, because it wasn’t put before voters.

Colantuono, the TMD’s lawyer, is no slouch either. His website describes him as “perhaps California’s leading expert on the law of local government revenues.” That seems a fair characterization, given that his specialty since 1989 has been setting up special taxing districts throughout the state.

Crucially for this case, his job got harder with the 2010 passage of Proposition 26, which tightened the definition of “tax” and required two-thirds of voters to approve many increases.

It’s a familiar dilemma; two smart lawyers saying the opposite thing. After all, the accomplished former lawyers who sit on the U.S. Supreme Court routinely split their votes.

So what’s the hotel industry to do?

Well, owners could always just pay the fee themselves, directly, instead of tacking it onto bills at checkout time under the heading of “taxes” or “local fees.”

Alas, this solution seems less than ideal, from a hotelier’s perspective. Eating the fee would either cut profits or raise base rates. Given the importance of online search engines, nobody wants to visibly boost rates.

Or they could ask the City Council to subsidize marketing from the general fund. After all, few public expenditures hold such potential for direct economic payback.

The problem here is that politicians are fundamentally unreliable. Before the TMD’s creation in 2008, the government insisted on treating hotel taxes like, well, tax money. Hoteliers want their own, dedicated pot of money. Would you want to compete with police and firefighters during the next budget crunch?

Or the industry could try to settle the case. This would require an opinion that the odds of losing were substantial. And it would probably involve supporting a ballot initiative to raise hotel taxes specifically for tourism marketing, triggering the requirement for a two-thirds majority.

For perspective, in 2012 City Attorney Jan Goldsmith advised the City Council that the safest way to collect the surcharge would be with voter approval. City leaders ignored that advice.

This brings us back to Briggs, who has created a backup plan for the hoteliers by authoring a ballot initiative aimed at the November election. Among other things, the initiative would raise hotel taxes and give the industry the option to use tax credits for building a convention center and, you guessed it, tourism marketing.

There’s just one catch: The credits would flow through new industry-run entities with board structures that, arguably, would make them more transparent and accountable to the public.

In his January State of the City address, Faulconer said he would seek a vote to raise hotel taxes for a convention center. But he’s mum on the tourism surcharge and the Briggs initiative. So are the major hoteliers, with the exception of JMI Realty (owner of San Diego Omni Hotel), which has backed the initiative.

For now, the hotel industry appears ready to take its chances in court. Hoteliers were vocal in asserting that Filner damaged tourism by holding TMD money in 2013, a temporary crisis.

But with a court poised to consider whether San Diego’s tourism surcharge will topple completely under Prop. 26, we hear nothing but crickets.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: CptMyCpt24 on February 24, 2016, 07:50:19 AM
Charger's at it again.

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2016/feb/23/chargers-downtown-decision-stadium-jmi/
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: jimy on February 24, 2016, 08:04:15 AM
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Charger's at it again.

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2016/feb/23/chargers-downtown-decision-stadium-jmi/

Funny that the Chargers say : The multi-use facility, when combined with Petco Park, the existing Convention Center, the Gaslamp Quarter, and a revitalized East Village, would create an unparalleled entertainment and sports district that will host Super Bowls and will ideally be a permanent home for Comic-Con and a Comic-Con museum.

While CCI says: Comic-Con officials, in response to the Chargers' announcement, said: "We have had no discussions with the Chargers and were surprised to be mentioned in their recent statement. We hope the public is aware, and we would like to reiterate our ongoing belief that a contiguous convention center expansion is the preferable solution to the limits on current convention center space. Comic-Con has doubts that a multi-use facility would serve the best interests of potential conventions hoping to exhibit in San Diego."

I agree with CCI, a contiguous convention center expansion is the preferable solution!
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: DaveG on February 24, 2016, 08:55:51 AM
Once again, this plan requires two thirds majority voter approval to increase hotel taxes.  I don't live in San Diego, but thought a 2/3 majority approval on anything tax related to be a daunting and unlikely occurrence.  I never thought the Chargers were popular enough to attract 2/3 approval and am surprised they don't seem to realize this.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: semigeekgirl on February 24, 2016, 09:34:18 AM
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I never thought the Chargers were popular enough to attract 2/3 approval and am surprised they don't seem to realize this.

Especially after they publicly tried to jump ship. The only reason they're still in SD is because the NFL rejected their plan to move to Carson. They've made it clear they would rather share a city and stadium with another team than stay in San Diego. I can't imagine the citizens of SD are feeling generous toward them right now.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: UntrueBeliever on February 24, 2016, 09:42:08 AM
I dunno. Based on the comments to the article, a lot of people seem to like this new proposed plan.

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on February 24, 2016, 10:31:19 AM
Priceless ->

"We are rarely more San Diego than when we are deciding on a way to get something done. Or not done."

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2016/feb/23/stadium-situation-is-so-perfectly-san-diego/
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Mel on February 24, 2016, 11:11:40 AM
LOL at Chargers lame attempt to bring Comic-Con into it and act like this was for us too. With each passing day I hate the Chargers more....and it's sad b/c I used to love them. Last Fall I put all my jerseys and my jacket on CL and unloaded them though.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: RustyPonds on February 24, 2016, 11:17:54 AM
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Especially after they publicly tried to jump ship. The only reason they're still in SD is because the NFL rejected their plan to move to Carson. They've made it clear they would rather share a city and stadium with another team than stay in San Diego. I can't imagine the citizens of SD are feeling generous toward them right now.

Actually, it's the opposite. They now officially have the option to share the stadium with the Rams, and have until January 2017 to decide. But they don't want to be secondary tenants (and get secondary $$), so now they are low-key begging San Diego to build them a stadium.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on February 24, 2016, 11:24:42 AM
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Actually, it's the opposite. They now officially have the option to share the stadium with the Rams, and have until January 2017 to decide. But they don't want to be secondary tenants (and get secondary $$), so now they are low-key begging San Diego to build them a stadium.

Yep ->

"Chargers owner Dean Spanos has until January of 2017 to exercise his option to join Los Angeles Rams owner Stan Kroenke as either a partner or a tenant in the Inglewood stadium that is due to open in 2019."

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000621719/article/nfl-to-offer-chargers-raiders-assistance-package


"The Chargers have until Jan. 15, 2017 to make a decision about joining the Rams in L.A. - an option that extends to Jan. 15, 2018 if a referendum to approve funding for a new stadium in San Diego is approved prior to this Nov. 15.

In effect, the deal with the Rams gives the Chargers a safety net in case they fail to lock down a new stadium plan in San Diego, the team’s home since 1961."

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2016/01/29/chargers-move-agreement-los-angeles-rams-san-diego-nfl/79529772/

Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: semigeekgirl on February 24, 2016, 11:58:01 AM
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Actually, it's the opposite. They now officially have the option to share the stadium with the Rams, and have until January 2017 to decide. But they don't want to be secondary tenants (and get secondary $$), so now they are low-key begging San Diego to build them a stadium.

No, I knew that. But what they actually wanted originally was to share the Carson stadium with the Raiders, not the Inglewood stadium with the Rams. So they're reassessing.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Mario Wario on February 24, 2016, 10:01:18 PM
I can understand why the Chargers want this--being in downtown means more revenue, and being next to the bars and restaurants. For example, take a look at Seattle and the Seahawks. The stadium there is in a great location that sits directly where everything is at. Also the Chargers figured by saying that it would help Comic-Con, people might like the idea more because the team knows the Con was picked over them.

San Diego, however, needs the Chargers, I'm sorry, but the Padres will be bad for some time. Here's the thing, the NFL brand is solid right now. The most popular sport in America is football--college and professional. You don't have other cities doing everything possible to get a team if it wasn't. You also have the chance to host a Super Bowl. I know what Comic-Con brings in, it shouldn't mean, however, losing another major source of revenue because the numbers say it would be ok.

Yet the center does need work big time, I understand that. (Still doubt anything happens with that project, due to so many things against it.) Thus, IF satisfying both parties is possible, I would take a long look into it. But it's all about the money and how to get it. I'm not a big fan of spending, unless the long-term goal is worth it. Lastly, the Chargers suck now because there was no long-term goal in staying before all of this, which hurts free agency. Who wants to go to a team where the future is unknown. Don't forget, players have families too. Enough said.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: quantumslip on February 26, 2016, 12:31:07 AM
https://www.facebook.com/marriottmarquissandiegomarina/videos/vb.250746044958527/1114777358555387/?type=3&theater (https://www.facebook.com/marriottmarquissandiegomarina/videos/vb.250746044958527/1114777358555387/?type=3&theater)

The MMM is making good progress on their expanded ballroom / conference center, and is on track for usage by SDCC. I'll take any additional space SDCC can get. Looks nice too.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on February 27, 2016, 11:06:58 AM
Convadium

http://www.voiceofsandiego.org/topics/news/vosd-podcast-the-unintended-consequences-of-the-proposed-convadium/

This week on the Voice of San Diego podcast, we’re digging into the nitty-gritty details of the latest San Diego “convadium” developments. We discuss how it affects San Diegans, how each possible route could play out and more. Erik Bruvold, leader of the National University System Institute for Policy Research, joins the show as an expert in all things convadium-related. Podcasts hosts Scott Lewis and Andrew Keatts go down the rabbit hole of all the unintended consequences for San Diego citizens, hoteliers, sports teams and everyone else involved. They also dip into Civic San Diego’s comprehensive downtown mobility plan, which is focused on making it easier to live downtown without needing to drive.

[And...]

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2016/feb/25/stadium-odds-long-not-impossible/

"Are there sinkholes out there? Sure, enough to swallow a stadium or two. There will be swarms of challenges, legal and aesthetic. For one, Comic-Con looks at the annex with a gimlet eye. (Guess those action heroes in tights can’t walk a few blocks.)"

#ouch


[And...]

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2016/feb/26/convention-center-names-new-chief-executive/

Clifford “Rip” Rippetoe will replace Carol Wallace as chief executive of the San Diego Convention Center Corp., the public agency’s board announced Friday. Wallace is retiring after 25 years at the center’s helm, a period that included a major expansion in 2001. Board members credit her with elevating the venue to among the nation’s top-performing convention centers. She will remain as a consultant for one year.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on February 29, 2016, 09:09:14 AM
Okay there's a conspiracy theory... it's all laid out here by The Beat.

http://www.comicsbeat.com/kibbles-n-bits-22916-san-diego-conventer-center-conspiracy-theory/ (http://www.comicsbeat.com/kibbles-n-bits-22916-san-diego-conventer-center-conspiracy-theory/)

(second 'story' into the article, relevant bits copied below)

*****

§ The other day I mentioned that the matter of Comic-Con, the San Diego convention center expansion, and now the Chargers attempt at building a new stadium/convention center was really a matter of local politics. And it’s a little hard to parse these things from afar at times. However, here’s a juicy conspiracy theory about how the need for a new stadium and convention center might play out. I have NO IDEA if this has any resemblance to reality whatsoever, but since we like to play imaginary convention here at The Beat, let’s play along with this one. The report is from a Chargers blog and the evidence is from a Chargers podcast—and sports media is especially prone to baseless speculation. So once again, take it all with a LOT of salt. The basic idea is that the plan for a convention center expansion will never pass because it would need 66% of voters to approve a massive tax hike. Unlikely. However SD Mayor Kevin Faulconer still supports this plan, but NOT the idea for a Chargers downtown stadium with extra convention space downstairs, or the Convadium, as its being called.

According to the theory, support for a plan (convention center expansion) that will never pass may be deliberate:

During this week’s episode of the Squadcast, Ben Higgins told a story that he had heard from a source. The story was that the owners of San Diego’s downtown hotels don’t actually want a Convention Center expansion, contiguous or otherwise. They would prefer that Comic-Con and other big conferences continue to be forced to rent the hotel ballrooms out when they come to town. As such, it makes sense for these hotels to support a vote that they don’t believe will pass. The hoteliers (hotel owners) were responsible for a lot of the funding of Mayor Faulconer’s successful campaign, and so, he is indebted to them. Lucky for him, they’re on the same side as Comic-Con on this one….even if the two parties are actually hoping for different outcomes from the vote.


The contiguous Convention Center expansion bill is expected to be put up for a vote this June. What if it doesn’t pass? Well, according to this theory, when it fails to get the required votes, the Chargers’ scheme will look like the only way forward to get any improvements in downtown facilities.

The Mayor hopes that, since he tried it their way first, Comic-Con will not leave town and will instead support the Chargers’ plan for noncontiguous Convention Center expansion. He also hopes that the hoteliers don’t attempt stand in the way of a raised tourism tax, which would be used to add money towards a general fund (which is why it’s a 50% vote and not 66.6%) that could be used to pay for the stadium and/or hotel upgrades in the downtown area, although there isn’t much they’d be able to do except delay things in court. I think.


As preposterous as some of this backroom scheming sounds—I can’t see San Diego’s voters approving ANY kind of tax hike, 50% or 66.6%-it’s also discussed on the Voice of San Diego podcast. I don’t know if I’ll have time to listen to that this week, but maybe we can get Agent Torsten to dig in to all of this.

Is any of this true? Will San Diego ever get more convention center space and/or a new stadium for the Chargers? I’m sure some day the stadium part will happen, but by then we may be going to the movies to see Deadpool 5. Or dead.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: perc2100 on February 29, 2016, 09:31:52 AM
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I can understand why the Chargers want this--being in downtown means more revenue, and being next to the bars and restaurants. For example, take a look at Seattle and the Seahawks. The stadium there is in a great location that sits directly where everything is at. Also the Chargers figured by saying that it would help Comic-Con, people might like the idea more because the team knows the Con was picked over them.

San Diego, however, needs the Chargers, I'm sorry, but the Padres will be bad for some time. Here's the thing, the NFL brand is solid right now. The most popular sport in America is football--college and professional. You don't have other cities doing everything possible to get a team if it wasn't. You also have the chance to host a Super Bowl. I know what Comic-Con brings in, it shouldn't mean, however, losing another major source of revenue because the numbers say it would be ok.

Yet the center does need work big time, I understand that. (Still doubt anything happens with that project, due to so many things against it.) Thus, IF satisfying both parties is possible, I would take a long look into it. But it's all about the money and how to get it. I'm not a big fan of spending, unless the long-term goal is worth it. Lastly, the Chargers suck now because there was no long-term goal in staying before all of this, which hurts free agency. Who wants to go to a team where the future is unknown. Don't forget, players have families too. Enough said.

As a San Diego resident, I can say that our city most definitely does NOT "need" the Chargers/NFL.  What the city/county "needs" is the best overall deal: if that means Chargers in town, awesome, but if not then so be it.  There have been countless independent studies by economists that have proven several times that a civic investment in a professional sports complex is just about the worst investment possible.  In fact, numbers I've seen printed in the paper have shown the city of San Diego LOST money on the Chargers every year the last almost-decade except for the the ONE year the Chargers had several home playoff games (that year the city broke even).

I think it has been shown several times that a non-contiguous Convention Center expansion is likely NOT the best option for the city/convention center/events.  Not only has an independent study flat-out found that, but Comic-Con and other agencies have said that is not their ideal.

What Spanos WANTS is a downtown stadium for prestige & highest possible revenue.  Period.  He doesn't care about the city, he cares about his financial well being.  As someone who will see zero dollars either way from The NFL, I don't care what is best for the Spanos family profit margins.  I care what's best for our city, and as of now, without seeing explicit financial details, I don't think this is the better city investment than the Qualcomm site (w/an additional, already planned/discussed contiguous expansion of the Convention Center).
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Mel on February 29, 2016, 11:04:30 AM
The theory that the hotels don't want it because they want SDCC to rent their ballrooms doesn't hold water either. I remember Glanzer once specifically saying that all the hotels actually give them the space. Why they give it to them I don't know, I guess they want the Con to stay that bad so they can rent their rooms at crazy rates.

Now you might say, Glanzer also said the hotels were the thing making SDCC want to leave because they wouldn't keep rates low. I remember in research, we found most of the hotels balking were the further out hotels. Glanzer has always said the closeby, adjacent hotels have always been gracious and cooperative and why wouldn't they? They get the most traffic...their food and bev sales in addition to rooms must be amazing. It's the further out hotels without as much traffic that wanna raise room price to get their piece of the pie.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: dcuodust on February 29, 2016, 10:29:51 PM
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The theory that the hotels don't want it because they want SDCC to rent their ballrooms doesn't hold water either. I remember Glanzer once specifically saying that all the hotels actually give them the space. Why they give it to them I don't know, I guess they want the Con to stay that bad so they can rent their rooms at crazy rates.

Now you might say, Glanzer also said the hotels were the thing making SDCC want to leave because they wouldn't keep rates low. I remember in research, we found most of the hotels balking were the further out hotels. Glanzer has always said the closeby, adjacent hotels have always been gracious and cooperative and why wouldn't they? They get the most traffic...their food and bev sales in addition to rooms must be amazing. It's the further out hotels without as much traffic that wanna raise room price to get their piece of the pie.
Did Glanzer say why SDCC cared about room rates? It seems odd. They will sell out tickets regardless. And I cannot imagine an organization such as SDCC, that ultimately depends on the cooperation and charity of multi-billion dollar entertainment conglomerates, raising moral objections to price gouging. (It may be a non-profit but so is the Clinton Foundation. In some cases the designation does not mean much.)

*Regarding the economic impact of SDCC, it's amazing that literally every business tries to exploit it. I drive to Fashion Valley every morning to take the trolley to the convention centre, so I take 15 and 163, and along the drive there are a couple of "gentleman's" clubs that have large billboards welcoming San Diego Comic Con attendees. It cracks me up :)
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: semigeekgirl on February 29, 2016, 10:44:54 PM
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Did Glanzer say why SDCC cared about room rates? It seems odd. They will sell out tickets regardless. And I cannot imagine an organization such as SDCC, that ultimately depends on the cooperation and charity of multi-billion dollar entertainment conglomerates, raising moral objections to price gouging. (It may be a non-profit but so is the Clinton Foundation. In some cases the designation does not mean much.)

I agree that in many cases "non-profit" doesn't mean much, but CCI has always seemed honestly dedicated to their stated mission of bringing comics and comic-related entertainment to as many people as possible. They can't force their sponsors into altruism but they have always tried to keep the things they control directly as affordable as possible so that lots of different people, not just well-off people, can attend and participate.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on March 01, 2016, 05:50:37 AM
Semigeekgirl is right. The people who run CCI genuinely want to ensure that the average attendee is not priced out. their concern is the total cost for attendees, and they are apparently horrified by some of the hotel rates they have seen.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: perc2100 on March 01, 2016, 09:18:49 AM
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*Regarding the economic impact of SDCC, it's amazing that literally every business tries to exploit it. I drive to Fashion Valley every morning to take the trolley to the convention centre, so I take 15 and 163, and along the drive there are a couple of "gentleman's" clubs that have large billboards welcoming San Diego Comic Con attendees. It cracks me up :)

Hahahaha; I live just north of Mira Mesa and drive 15-163 every year/every day of Comic-Con and I know EXACTLY what you are talking about (and I've always wondered if they get a huge influx in customers during Comic-Con week)
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: perc2100 on March 01, 2016, 09:20:43 AM
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I agree that in many cases "non-profit" doesn't mean much, but CCI has always seemed honestly dedicated to their stated mission of bringing comics and comic-related entertainment to as many people as possible. They can't force their sponsors into altruism but they have always tried to keep the things they control directly as affordable as possible so that lots of different people, not just well-off people, can attend and participate.
DEFINITELY!  I have always gotten the sense that CCI legitimately wants to deliver the most reasonable cost across the board for SDCCI experience: hotels, transportation, admission, etc.  That's the only reason why I continually go back, and why I don't really care about attending a for-profit convention that always seem like more of a cash-grab than legitimate fan experience.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: dcuodust on March 01, 2016, 08:14:02 PM
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Semigeekgirl is right. The people who run CCI genuinely want to ensure that the average attendee is not priced out. their concern is the total cost for attendees, and they are apparently horrified by some of the hotel rates they have seen.
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DEFINITELY!  I have always gotten the sense that CCI legitimately wants to deliver the most reasonable cost across the board for SDCCI experience: hotels, transportation, admission, etc.  That's the only reason why I continually go back, and why I don't really care about attending a for-profit convention that always seem like more of a cash-grab than legitimate fan experience.
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I agree that in many cases "non-profit" doesn't mean much, but CCI has always seemed honestly dedicated to their stated mission of bringing comics and comic-related entertainment to as many people as possible. They can't force their sponsors into altruism but they have always tried to keep the things they control directly as affordable as possible so that lots of different people, not just well-off people, can attend and participate.
Okay. Good to know. (I tend to jump to unfair conclusions sometimes due to my cynicism :()
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: SamTurtledove on March 01, 2016, 09:25:01 PM
https://twitter.com/SDConventionCtr/status/620296484165017600
Quote
SD Convention Center ‏@SDConventionCtr 12 Jul 2015

What’s the economic impact of @Comic_Con in #SanDiego? Attendees & fans matter! $$$ #SDCC #ComicCon

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CJu77JiUYAE4rqV.png:large)

compare to July forecast

https://twitter.com/SDConventionCtr/status/616264608643420161

Quote
SD Convention Center ‏@SDConventionCtr 1 Jul 2015

July 1st is the start of our new fiscal year. Thanks to @Comic_Con @Esri & @hostingcon it’s a big month! #GoSanDiego


(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CI1pEkYXAAAc9Sm.png)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yncMTyxMHg&feature=youtu.be

Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: jimy on March 03, 2016, 08:34:58 AM
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https://twitter.com/SDConventionCtr/status/620296484165017600
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CJu77JiUYAE4rqV.png:large)

compare to July forecast

https://twitter.com/SDConventionCtr/status/616264608643420161


(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CI1pEkYXAAAc9Sm.png)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yncMTyxMHg&feature=youtu.be


Awesome numbers for Comic-Con, wonder how that stacks up against a season of Chargers games (is there even any positive income from a Chargers game?, I thought that for at least the past few years that San Diego was actually loosing money per game).
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: citizenmilton on March 03, 2016, 09:29:57 AM
Is there a specific location in mind for the "Convadium" facility in that proposal?

As a regular SDCC attendee, I have a strong preference against this proposal. If I lived in San Diego, I'm a big NFL fan and I'd probably want to do whatever it takes to keep the team in town. But, this idea of hastily tossing in a "convention center expansion" off-site next to the stadium, it just seems like a political ploy with little or no practical value.

I find the biggest difficulty at SDCC as an attendee is maximizing the experience and making the most efficient usage of your time. Every single hour of the day, every choice you make, there's a high opportunity cost - every thing you affirm to do also carries with it the loss of other options. It's a constant struggle to balance.

I can't imaging an offsite "official" location having any value for most con-goers. It simply won't be utilized very well.

For example, even the Indigo Ballroom, which is about as convenient as a non-contiguous official location can be - during the normal daytime hours, I never attend anything there - the extra time it takes to leave the convention center, walk over to the Hilton, get back to the convention center, it's just too big of a commitment. In order to attend something there, it impacts in both directions - before and after the scheduled time frame - so if you want to see something at 2:00pm, it affects your options at 1:00pm and 3:00pm.

The only way I could imagine attending anything at an off-site "Convadium" would be evening / after-hours stuff. In that case, it could in fact have some potential - but I doubt that's how the political folks are selling it. They're selling it as a peer-level option to the contiguous expansion, and that's completely impractical from my point of view. And I can't even see the bulky attached building being of any use. Maybe the stadium itself could be used?

If the stadium portion of the "Convadium" were to absorb Hall H's biggest events - let's say the top 3-4 panels of the year, and host them at night, that could maybe be a positive use of such a facility. I could imagine Star Wars, Marvel, Game of Thrones, etc. actually using the NFL stadium - not just the attachment. You could fill tens of thousands in the seats, and get rid of the need for lining up overnight. But the sound system would have to be beyond state-of-the-art. I have massive amounts of skepticism for using a facility in this way. I don't even know if it'd be cost-effective. It might simply be too heavy an additional cost to even consider doing it.

But, in general, I hope San Diegans choose - somehow - to support the contiguous expansion.

Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: perc2100 on March 03, 2016, 11:06:33 AM
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Awesome numbers for Comic-Con, wonder how that stacks up against a season of Chargers games (is there even any positive income from a Chargers game?, I thought that for at least the past few years that San Diego was actually loosing money per game).
That last stats I found quite awhile ago said the city LOST money on the Chargers every year except one where they had home playoffs games & broke even.  At least with the lease renegotiation several years ago (which doesn't get brought up a ton publicly), The Chargers MADE money on the deal while San Diego LOST money.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: dcuodust on March 03, 2016, 02:28:34 PM
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https://twitter.com/SDConventionCtr/status/620296484165017600
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CJu77JiUYAE4rqV.png:large)

compare to July forecast

https://twitter.com/SDConventionCtr/status/616264608643420161


(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CI1pEkYXAAAc9Sm.png)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yncMTyxMHg&feature=youtu.be
The actual impact is probably much greater, because for five-days San Diego is the center of the entertainment/pop culture world. The city is being mentioned non-stop in all media.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: SteveD on March 05, 2016, 05:01:23 AM
Martin Burke posted this article in the SDCC Google+ community this morning from The SDUT which gives CCI's thoughts on the convention center expansion straight from David Glanzer himself...

Comic-Con wants certain Convention Center expansion
By David Glanzer | 5 p.m. March 4, 2016

Quote
We will say what we have always said: Comic-Con believes that a contiguous convention center expansion (one that is connected to the current facility) would be best for Comic-Con, and most beneficial for any large event San Diego might host in the future.

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2016/mar/04/comic-con-convention-expansion/ (http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2016/mar/04/comic-con-convention-expansion/)
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on March 05, 2016, 06:16:18 AM
Great share [member=3710]SteveD[/member]!

More from the same, clearly addressing the annual "are they staying here or not?" angst:

"We are San Diego-born and the fact that America’s Finest City has embraced our quirky, geeky, nerdy event and continues to proudly and rightly champion it as its own is not lost on us. And because of this we honestly hope to remain in San Diego for many more years to come."

[sidebar: hopefully one of these days the CCI website will have statements such as this archived under a "press releases" tab or the like that will be the go to point for finding out "what Comic-Con as an organization officially thinks about issue X, Y or Z"]
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on March 06, 2016, 09:17:21 AM
The Opinion section discussion rolls on ->

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2016/mar/04/stadium-chargers-san-diego/

"And although we understand that the organizers of Comic-Con have been in favor of a contiguous expansion, we hope to convince Comic-Con that this multiuse facility - with a covered stadium capable of hosting mega-events and a permanent Comic-Con Museum - will serve the Comic-Con community in new and exciting ways."

(the ::really:: fun reading is in the comments below this and Glanzer's commentary)

Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: dcuodust on March 06, 2016, 11:22:15 AM
If the Chargers were not an issue, how would this be playing out?
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Mel on March 06, 2016, 11:37:01 AM
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If the Chargers were not an issue, how would this be playing out?

They would just be working on funding a contiguous Convention Center expansion.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: dcuodust on March 06, 2016, 11:44:39 AM
And Chargers want the city to build them, or help build them, a downtown stadium? The problem with the current stadium and locations is...?
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: SteveD on March 06, 2016, 01:59:33 PM
What amazes me about all this is that the Chargers want to build a covered stadium in what has to be the nicest climate in all of the U.S., except for maybe Hawaii.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on March 06, 2016, 03:51:30 PM
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What amazes me about all this is that the Chargers want to build a covered stadium in what has to be the nicest climate in all of the U.S., except for maybe Hawaii.

That fabric roof must be a big deal for some part of their vision for when SD does get - not enough by any means! - rain.

"a state-of-the-art stadium covered by a fabric roof will allow San Diego to host conventions of all shapes and sizes, along with major events including the Super Bowl, the NCAA Final Four, boxing and MMA matches, soccer, and large religious and political gatherings"

"a covered stadium capable of hosting mega-events and a permanent Comic-Con Museum"

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2016/mar/04/stadium-chargers-san-diego/

http://www.chargers.com/news/2016/02/23/chargers-focus-efforts-downtown

(Lucas Oil Stadium is the only one covered of those Maas mentioned as part of the 2011 trip, though Sports Authority and Arrowhead certainly endure weather worthy of a cover).
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on March 06, 2016, 08:15:32 PM
Well to be fair, a covered football/baseball stadium could be a viable alternative for Hall H.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on March 07, 2016, 07:13:37 AM
Points of dispute on new Chargers stadium Ex-SD councilman predicts legal defeat for "convadium" funding plan

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2016/mar/07/chargers-demaio-convadium-chargers-stadium/

As the Chargers and their partners flesh out plans for a downtown stadium/convention center annex, plus a mixed development in Mission Valley, the bid’s skeletal terms have stirred up reactions pro and con. One skeptic who worked in San Diego government, deems the plan too unwieldy. “They’re trying to fit a pig through the mouth of a python,” former City councilman Carl DeMaio told Steve Hartman and Mike Costa of Chargers flagship station 1360 AM last week.

DeMaio held office from 2008-12. Following, he lost two elections -- one for mayor, one for a state Congressional seat -- and became a talk-show host on 600 AM. (Disclaimer: Union-Tribune publisher Doug Manchester and CEO John Lynch were staunch supporters of DeMaio. Neither Manchester nor Lynch is still with the U-T.) DeMaio sides with the Chargers for choosing downtown over Mission Valley but argues that the state constitution requires a two-third vote, not just a simple majority, to approve a tax increase crucial to funding the project.

"What you’re doing in your initiative is you’re raising the (hotel) tax and then turning around and saying, ‘But if you spend it on the things that we want you to spend it on, and only on a non-contiguous convention center and only on marketing, well, then, you don’t have to pay a higher tax, and we’re trying to do this all through 50 percent.' It's a backdoor way of earmarking, and a judge will see that. A judge will strike it down.”

DeMaio foresees traffic congestion as manageable downtown, even with a Chargers stadium in the East Village. The ex-councilman said two of his fellow Republicans, Mayor Kevin Faulconer and County Supervisor Ron Roberts, offered Chargers chairman Dean Spanos too large of a public subsidy, at $350 million, toward a $1.1 billion stadium in the Valley in light of San Diego's infrastructure needs and the bath the city took in other dealings with the NFL and Team Spanos. (Roberts said Spanos sought an additional $200 million last month, thus raising the subsidy request to $550 million on the day before the Chargers announced they preferred a downtown site.) My take: Chargers development partner John Moores, a former owner of the Padres, is no stranger to legal challenges to funding measures for sports palaces. And he's no stranger to winning those duels. He batted 1.000 versus litigants opposed to the construction of Petco Park.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: bettiebloodshed on March 07, 2016, 10:21:49 AM
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And Chargers want the city to build them, or help build them, a downtown stadium? The problem with the current stadium and locations is...?

The current stadium is the oldest in the NFL. It needs a revamp. However, every time they are offered a revamp, Spanos just shoves his fingers in his ears and screams no. As for the location there is nothing wrong with it--it actually allows for tailgating and is between 3 major highways and 2 minor ones. (5, 805, 8, the 163 and the 15). I live about a mile from it and just...don't see the issue. Besides greed. Beyoncé is going to be playing at it soon so obviously it's not that bad.


I live in San Diego and I am so damn sick of this. Obviously I'm biased, but I want my continuous convention center, and I want this selfish jerk GONE. I signed the petition to get the hotel tax on the ballot, and I'll be voting for it in june, to get CCI what they need/want. But I want Spanos to keep his nose out of it.  (sorry if I'm coming off angry, but I am. This situation is beyond frustrating.)
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on March 07, 2016, 10:26:56 AM
The Beat just posted an interesting analysis of the entire matter, discussing a contiguous convention center and the economic impact of Comic Con. It's worth a read.

http://www.comicsbeat.com/sd-comic-con-still-wants-a-contigious-convention-center-expansion-but-is-it-still-a-possibility/ (http://www.comicsbeat.com/sd-comic-con-still-wants-a-contigious-convention-center-expansion-but-is-it-still-a-possibility/)

Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Mel on March 07, 2016, 10:28:28 AM
The stadium in Mission Valley IS old and junky. If a new stadium is built, it needs to stay in Mission Valley though and we (taxpayers) do not need to pay for it!
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on March 07, 2016, 10:57:05 AM
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The Beat just posted an interesting analysis of the entire matter, discussing a contiguous convention center and the economic impact of Comic Con. It's worth a read.

http://www.comicsbeat.com/sd-comic-con-still-wants-a-contigious-convention-center-expansion-but-is-it-still-a-possibility/ (http://www.comicsbeat.com/sd-comic-con-still-wants-a-contigious-convention-center-expansion-but-is-it-still-a-possibility/)

Agreed, a good read.

In re: the author's "Not even mentioned in all of this are the decaying sails of the Under the Sails area— the SD Convention Center as it stands right now needs $32 million in repairs," the fund$ were indeed found as mentioned upthread ->

"The funding will come in the form of loans from the State of California's Infrastructure & Economic Development Bank -- lending at low-low rates between 3 and 3 and a half percent over 20 years."

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/Funds-to-Upgrade-Convention-Center-Sails-Pavilion-Found-in-Sacramento-366639361.html

One small bite out of a very large project.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: citizenmilton on March 07, 2016, 02:09:02 PM
I'm still fairly confused by one procedural point here. Proponents of the Chargers-backed proposal claim their proposal won't cost "real" San Diego taxpayers anything because it's a hotel tax. But isn't that the same for the SDCC-contiguous-expansion proposal? Wasn't that also to be funded by a hotel tax? And one agreed upon by the hotel owners?

I'm also confused by the 50% vs. 75% voter approval threshold? I might be wrong, but the way I read these pieces makes it seem like a contiguous convention center expansion would require a 'yes' vote over 75%, but the Chargers "convadium" would only require 50%? Am I correct in that understanding?

The former councilperson-turned-radio-host seems to believe that whatever political trickery is involved in creating the lower threshold for the "convadium" proposal is potentially weak and could be thrown out by judges.

I'm pessimistic about the outcome here. I could see voters rationalizing it as, we have to act now to keep the Chargers, and we can revisit the SDCC requested expansion further down the road. But, if they actually build a "convadium" that will make the case for a contiguous expansion even harder in the short/medium term, people will say "but we just gave you an expansion!" for a while.

The "convadium," if used as a night-time replacement for Hall H, I could maybe see that working, but other than that, it seems totally worthless to me as a SDCC attendee. I couldn't imagine actually attending something there.


Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: bettiebloodshed on March 07, 2016, 08:12:35 PM
Just heard on local NPR that the mayor is likely not going to have the vote for the convention center on the ballot in June. Might not even go up in November since it would be up against the Spanos one.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on March 08, 2016, 11:00:16 AM
Someone not waiting for ballot measure timing - Fifth Avenue Landing LLC:

Proposed hotels could impact Convention Center future

http://www.10news.com/news/proposed-hotels-could-impact-convention-center-future

The Port of San Diego Board of Commissioners will hear a presentation Tuesday on a proposed project that would result in the construction of two hotels near the San Diego Convention Center. The proposal by Fifth Avenue Landing LLC could have a major impact on the future of an expansion project for the center, which has been held up by litigation. Plans for a contiguous expansion of the facility -- one that would keep its exhibit space together as preferred by tourism leaders -- could require some of Fifth Avenue Landing's property. The company holds a ground lease for six acres adjacent to the center, and after waiting for several years for the convention center's expansion project to begin, told city officials last year it would have to move ahead with its hotel proposal.
 
Port commissioners will hear a report on Fifth Avenue Landing's preliminary plans, which include a 44-story convention hotel of up to 850 rooms and a five-story lower-cost tourist hotel with 565 beds. The project would also include a retail development, open space plazas, a parking garage, a bridge from the hotel tower to public viewing areas of the convention center and a marina expansion. After the presentation, port staff will ask the commissioners for authorization to continue studying the project and begin an environmental review. 
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: SteveD on March 08, 2016, 11:17:27 AM
Here's a link to the Fifth Avenue Landing Project...

http://www.therobertgreencompany.com/projects/fifth-avenue-landing-san-diego (http://www.therobertgreencompany.com/projects/fifth-avenue-landing-san-diego)

Looks like a very ambitious project.  Obviously in the works for some time.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on March 08, 2016, 12:12:39 PM
If we can't have a contiguous expansion, I think a hotel in the space is a great idea!
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: citizenmilton on March 08, 2016, 01:02:41 PM
Wow. I just did a deep-dive on the politics of the issue, reading pieces on the San Diego Tribune and Voice of San Diego. The complexities are enormous. There's a lengthy political battle involving the hotel owners dating back to 2004 that's still playing out in all of this. Apparently, a pseudo-tax that the hoteliers created, similar to the one which was proposed for the contiguous expansion, is likely to be ruled to be illegal - and as such, the city would have to pay $30 million in refunds to the hotels for taxes that are retroactively deemed illegal. And that's just one consequence of this whole mess.

It does not look good for Comic-Con attendees. It looks like we might see our hotel taxes raise an additional 5% - without the convention center getting expanded. And a good chunk of that money will go towards keeping the Chargers in San Diego. And they'll put a fig leaf on it, claiming there's new convention space, by constructing some building adjacent to the new stadium. Maybe the facility could have purpose for other conventions, but I just don't see how it adds anything for Comic-Con.

 >:( :( ???
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on March 08, 2016, 09:03:59 PM
East Village Developers Say an East Village Stadium Would Ruin East Village

http://www.voiceofsandiego.org/topics/land-use/east-village-developers-say-an-east-village-stadium-would-ruin-east-village/

"Even if the Citizens’ Plan passes, it does not necessarily mean a new convention center campus or stadium would be built. Both would require additional investments or City Council approvals. If the convention center expansion isn’t built, the entire hotel-room tax increase in the measure goes into the city’s general fund. At that point, since they’ll be getting taxed either way, the hotels would have a healthy incentive to approve a convention center expansion. City leaders and the press have scrutinized the plan’s legal framework and political feasibility. But no one’s been too focused on a simpler question: Is it a good idea to build a facility like this in the middle of downtown San Diego?"
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: catvonawesome on March 09, 2016, 08:54:41 AM
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Here's a link to the Fifth Avenue Landing Project...

As much as I would love that space to be Convention Center space, I gotta say that hotel plan looks awesome.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on March 09, 2016, 10:20:35 AM
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As much as I would love that space to be Convention Center space, I gotta say that hotel plan looks awesome.

The Port District agrees ->

From:

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2016/mar/08/port-advances-hotel-project-on-convention/

"A $300 million bayfront hotel project that could kill hopes for expanding the downtown convention center should nevertheless move forward, San Diego port commissioners agreed Tuesday. While cautioning that its vote to continue analyzing the development in no way constitutes an approval, the board of the San Diego Unified Port District heaped praise on the project."


And in other related news, former Mayor & current San Diego Regional Chamber of Commerce CEO Sanders  ->

http://www.voiceofsandiego.org/topics/news/morning-report-convadium-gets-big-endorsement/

“It just doesn’t appear that that’s going to happen any time soon. What I think is important is that we do something. And that something literally has to be moving off the contiguous space. I think you’ll find a lot of people who agree with that now. And leaving that option for the future maybe - that we do Phase 3 of the Convention Center across the street somewhere and actually save Phase 4 for contiguous, if it can ever be done,” he said. Host Scott Kaplan asked Sanders to clarify. Was he saying he supported the plan put together by JMI Realty, Cory Briggs, Donna Frye and financed in part by former Padres owner John Moores? “What I’m saying is I support the concept,” he said. It was only a couple months ago that Mayor Kevin Faulconer pledged to put a contiguous expansion on the ballot. Now his predecessor and a major supporter says he can’t see it happening."
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: dcuodust on March 10, 2016, 12:47:11 PM
They should settle this through a tug of war: San Diego Chargers fans versus SDCC fans. It's the only reasonable thing to do.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on March 10, 2016, 01:47:41 PM
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They should settle this through a tug of war: San Diego Chargers fans versus SDCC fans. It's the only reasonable thing to do.

So.... 130,000 of us versus 50 of them!

I like those odds, even if many of us are 98 pound weaklings.... ;)
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: frgx on March 10, 2016, 02:06:15 PM
Only 50 Chargers fans out there?  :o

That might be right.  :D
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: CptMyCpt24 on March 10, 2016, 03:26:57 PM

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Only 50 Chargers fans out there?  :o

That might be right.  :D

There might only be 50 after this whole mess.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on March 10, 2016, 04:02:13 PM
Convention Center bookings well ahead of last year

http://fox5sandiego.com/2016/03/10/convention-center-bookings-well-above-2015s/

Long-term bookings of trade shows at the San Diego Convention Center are running well ahead of last year’s pace, according to a report scheduled to be presented Thursday afternoon to the City Council’s Economic Development Committee. By the end of January, 34 conventions had been booked for future years at the bayside facility, according to the report. The events are expected to attract nearly 224,000 attendees and sell more than 415,000 hotel room nights. At the same point last year, 13 conventions had been booked, with half the attendees and hotel room nights, the report said.

The report, compiled by convention center staff and the San Diego Tourism Authority, projects that 60 conventions will be booked during this fiscal year, which runs until June 30. Long-term bookings, handled by the SDTA sales staff, are for national conferences that book more than a year and a half out. Conversely, short-term deals - usually for smaller events that occur 18 months or less from the sale - are down. The report said 62 such events had been booked by convention center staff by the end of January, compared to 79 last year. Despite the drop, the anticipated attendance, around 140,000, and hotel room nights, more than 18,000, are about the same as last year, according to the report. Staff are also scheduled to provide an update on the city’s open data program. The city recently launched the website SDData.org, and plan to begin uploading data sets by July 1.

Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: citizenmilton on March 11, 2016, 12:01:43 PM
I wonder what the timeline/milestones are for the next steps in this debate?

Mayor Faulconer had originally wanted to place the true expansion of the convention center on a June ballot, but recently announced that wouldn't be happening.

I suppose the next step might be that the "Citizens Plan" group will release a more detailed proposal, including more information on the financing of the football stadium.

I wonder if CCI will have an opportunity to create a counter-proposal that has any shot of being approved?

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2016/feb/25/chargers-stadium-poll/ (http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2016/feb/25/chargers-stadium-poll/)
This recent poll conducted by the San Diego Union-Tribune shows that the Chargers stadium proposal has a good chance of getting approved by voters. There are arguments as to whether a 50% or 66% approval threshold applies, but, a recent piece by an election law expert on VoiceOfSandiego suggests that the lower threshold is all that the team will need.

I'm afraid this is awful news for Comic-Con attendees. CCI might be forced to accept a "convention expansion" that isn't actually an expansion of the convention center, but creates a new facility attached to a new football stadium, across the skybridge over past PetCo park.

I don't know if most con-goers would agree with me, but I think this would be terrible for Comic-Con. CCI might have to rent out the distant facility, just to shut out competing events during the con. And how could they use a facility so far away? How could attendees shuffle between the two facilities? For me, the time commitment to navigate that far would be too high, and I'd try to stay within the original convention center. But that might not be an option. Maybe CCI will have to fully embrace the two-facility approach and split the convention in half, forcing attendees to spend a huge chunk of time commuting between facilities (and we all know how insanely crowded the foot traffic gets).

I hope CCI has a strong response, a strategy, and a path to success - because right now it looks like they're about to get eaten by the sharks on the other side, and Comic-Con attendees are going to have to pay higher taxes just to see their convention split in half and see the amount of time spent actually enjoying the convention reduce by a significant amount.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on March 12, 2016, 07:57:57 AM
VOSD Podcast: Comic-Con Speaks

http://www.voiceofsandiego.org/topics/news/immense-immeasurable-social-effect-comic-con-san-diego/

Having a yearly event the size of Comic-Con is, in some ways, like having the Super Bowl in our city every year. While the economic issues are often discussed, the social impact is immense but less measurable. David Glanzer, marketing and public relations director of Comic-Con, stopped by the studio to discuss the myriad issues surrounding the behemoth pop-culture event and to lift the curtain on some of its inner workings. He brought up the issue of hotels hiking prices higher and higher every year during the event and detailed how Comic-Con is working to help keep prices more reasonable for its demographics —mostly young adults who can’t afford the ballooning price tags.

Glanzer also shared his thoughts on the Convention Center expansion. Co-hosts Scott Lewis and Andrew Keatts also discuss how one San Diego attorney had virtually cornered the school market but now his grip is loosening and some of his former clients are questioning his work. They analyze San Diego Chamber of Commerce CEO Jerry Sanders’s decision to officially throw his support behind the idea of a non-contiguous expansion of the convention center and introduce the argument being made by the so-called “East Village People,” a group of local architects and developers who say a downtown stadium will destroy the urban neighborhood.

---------------------------------------------
Glanzer part starts at about 23:55 =>

http://hwcdn.libsyn.com/p/a/1/2/a12d8fc16141a065/VOSD_Podcast_20160310_David_Glanser_b1.mp3?c_id=11212187&expiration=1457802463&hwt=0a90c637bf8e730fc571c15a641d6466

(he makes a memorable goof about where WonderCon is this year - pobody's nerfect  ;) )
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: citizenmilton on March 12, 2016, 02:27:22 PM
AzT- thanks again for posting interesting resources into this thread.

I have to say, though, I was disappointed in David Glanzer's response about the divided/two-facility "campus" approach. He said that he'd expect SDCC attendees would be "amenable" to walking around. He focused his critique of the two-facility plan over the difficulties it would cause the event organizers in terms of the vendors and exhibitors. I guess that's what the CCI staff spend the majority of their time on, so it makes sense. But I believe it's an incomplete view of the problems.

A number of supporters of the two-facility approach online adapt a condescending and insulting tone, one representative example saying that Comic-Con fans "could use the extra steps."

The issue isn't distance, it's time. The issue isn't the willingness to walk; SDCC attendees know full well how much walking is already involved. The issue is how much less of an experience con-goers would be able to have, because they'd now be spending so much time commuting between facilities.

For an attendee who only focuses on walking the exhibitor floor and buying things, I suppose a two-facility approach would actually benefit them. I don't know how many con-goers fall into that bucket.

But for folks like myself, where the programming is the primary draw, the idea of having to lose multiple hour blocks of programming is just a deal-killer for me. If a person simply goes to one single secondary-facility event per day, they'll end up losing a minimum of 8 hours of available programming. That's like losing 25% of the convention experience just because of the new "campus" approach. Those numbers may seem like an exaggeration until you actually think through the implications of a two-facility structure. To illustrate the difference: Person A: stays at the main center, enjoys programming in the 1pm, 2pm, 3pm blocks.
Person B: goes to the secondary facility for a 2pm event. They will miss the 1pm block and 3pm block commuting back & forth between facilities. If they do this every day during the convention, they will miss 8 hours of programming just to commute. And that's not even factoring in lines.

Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Bert Su on March 18, 2016, 05:23:08 PM
I actually like the campus idea. Sure there's the drawback of having to walk around but SDCC can do more with the different facilities than trying to cram everything in one building or cram hundreds of panels in a single day
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: juliafrood on March 20, 2016, 10:46:27 PM
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For an attendee who only focuses on walking the exhibitor floor and buying things, I suppose a two-facility approach would actually benefit them. I don't know how many con-goers fall into that bucket.

But for folks like myself, where the programming is the primary draw, the idea of having to lose multiple hour blocks of programming is just a deal-killer for me.

I know VERY few people who just go to easy-to-enter panels for the entire length of the con.  Everything at the convention, even panels, is a trade off for time, including travel time.  I don't know for sure that adding more space inside will help.  For example, My husband and I (neither of whom waited in line for Hall H or Ballroom 20 last year) were both disappointed to have to stay in the hall during different panels last year due to capacity. 

The space that exists will still be there, but more options ANYWHERE will make current lines shorter inside.  It would be cool to have a contiguous center with all of these options under one roof, but I feel like inside foot traffic would be slower than outside foot traffic anyway. 

Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: citizenmilton on March 21, 2016, 09:35:44 AM
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I know VERY few people who just go to easy-to-enter panels for the entire length of the con.  Everything at the convention, even panels, is a trade off for time, including travel time.  I don't know for sure that adding more space inside will help.

I completely agree with this; part of the difficulty of judging whether the 'campus' expansion could be good or bad is there's simply too many unknowns. I could imagine a number of scenarios where it could be good, many where it'd be terrible (for my SDCC habits, at least).

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The space that exists will still be there, but more options ANYWHERE will make current lines shorter inside.  It would be cool to have a contiguous center with all of these options under one roof, but I feel like inside foot traffic would be slower than outside foot traffic anyway.

That would be true - but only if they maintain the current cap on the number of attendees, which isn't necessarily going to be the case. In his recent interview, one of the concerns David Glanzer raised is that, even if CCI didn't initially *want* to rent out the secondary facility, they might have to anyway, just to keep out competing events from siphoning off the Comic-Con crowd.

So, imagine now they've got a secondary facility - and they've got to justify the expense. And Glanzer mentioned that a major challenge for them will be convincing studios/retailers/etc. to agree to be placed over at the "kid's table" of the secondary facility.

In order to deal with the additional costs of renting the second facility, they'll probably either have to raise badge prices or increase the number of attendees - or maybe even both.

Let's imagine they do both - and even with the best of intentions, the secondary facilities' programming and events just doesn't attract the foot traffic that's wanted. So now, you've potentially got a primary convention center that's even more crowded, and costs more to get into. What would the fire marshalls say about this? In order to stop a fire-hazard scenario from happening, will they have to institute some sort of check-in process to manage the crowds between the two venues? Will badges have to be purchased for the two facilities separately? Most of the times that I try to imagine the scenarios involving the secondary facility, it's just a logistical cluster***k.

One obvious thing to do would be to make the new football stadium the place for the current Hall H events. And move the current Ballroom 20 stuff into Hall H. But I don't see how that's cost effective. Renting the stadium would presumably be a huge cost. And separating the biggest draws of the entire event away from the primary facility where the retailers are - that would not be popular with the exhibitors. The convenience of the retail space being right there - folks going to the floor after visiting Ballroom 20 or Hall H - that's got to be a sizable chunk of their foot traffic.

I do have faith that the CCI folks know their convention inside and out and often manage to solve extremely difficult logistical puzzles. They very well might be able to take the campus approach and make something useful out of it. I remain severely skeptical.

Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: perc2100 on March 21, 2016, 09:57:23 AM
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I know VERY few people who just go to easy-to-enter panels for the entire length of the con.  Everything at the convention, even panels, is a trade off for time, including travel time.  I don't know for sure that adding more space inside will help.  For example, My husband and I (neither of whom waited in line for Hall H or Ballroom 20 last year) were both disappointed to have to stay in the hall during different panels last year due to capacity. 

The space that exists will still be there, but more options ANYWHERE will make current lines shorter inside.  It would be cool to have a contiguous center with all of these options under one roof, but I feel like inside foot traffic would be slower than outside foot traffic anyway.
I think I personally know enough people who actually purposely go for easy-to-enter/less popular looking panels: I think a tougher concept now, though, is what are easy-to-enter panels, and are there a lot of them?  Everything at SDCCI seems to attract lots of people nowadays.

I agree that more space is better than what we have now, so if it's between the Charger proposal and nothing the Charger proposal wins in my book (and when they advertise is as being "more than just for the Chargers" it will look a lot more attractive than "Charger stadium in Mission Valley on one hand, and convention center expansion as a totally separate thing in the other hand").
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on March 21, 2016, 10:44:17 AM
From ->

Chargers stadium debate to heat up Expect "convadium" backers to point to dual-project's reduced costs via one site

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2016/mar/21/chargers-spanos-jalen-ramsey-telesco/

"Expect the stadium topic to heat up again this week when the Chargers are to release plan details for a new home downtown.In his preview, Scott Lewis of VoiceofSan Diego.org told the Chargers AM flagship station 1360 AM he foresees a complicated proposed answer to the long-unanswered question, who would pay for a new football palace in San Diego's East Village?

I think that we’ll probably see (the Chargers) come with some kind of argument that this is a stadium that’s fully paid for with private dollars. And what people will have to keep him in mind is that, that is probably only possible if they get some kind of plan to build this convention part of it right next door, or right there, to kind of hold it up.

As for who won't be forking over money, Lewis said county entities outside of city proper are likely off the hook. My take: A key selling point for backers of a "convadium" will be the combined facility's reduced public cost, compared with the proposed public outlays for an expanded Convention Center and a new Chargers stadium in Mission Valley."
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on March 21, 2016, 11:56:00 AM
More details on the MMM convention center. Apparently it includes 2 ballrooms about the size of Ballroom 20.

http://www.comicsbeat.com/the-marriott-marquis-san-diego-marina-expands-with-two-huge-new-ballrooms-just-in-time-for-comic-con/ (http://www.comicsbeat.com/the-marriott-marquis-san-diego-marina-expands-with-two-huge-new-ballrooms-just-in-time-for-comic-con/)
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: epicaz on March 21, 2016, 03:11:29 PM
Are there any downtown hotels that DON'T have parking options available? Trying to figure out if we'll need to consider the lottery if our top hotels don't offer spots

Edit: oh gosh I totally thought this was the hotel thread. Sorry guys, zoned out!!
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: semigeekgirl on March 21, 2016, 03:22:12 PM
All of the downtown hotels offer parking for their guests (which is good, since none of the Ace lots allow overnight parking). The only trouble you would run into would be if you needed to park more than one car per room, but even then the hotel might be able to accommodate you if you talk to them directly.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on March 21, 2016, 03:32:19 PM
There are a few hotels that only offer valet parking, but I believe they all offer parking.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: citizenmilton on March 21, 2016, 07:38:22 PM
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More details on the MMM convention center. Apparently it includes 2 ballrooms about the size of Ballroom 20.

http://www.comicsbeat.com/the-marriott-marquis-san-diego-marina-expands-with-two-huge-new-ballrooms-just-in-time-for-comic-con/ (http://www.comicsbeat.com/the-marriott-marquis-san-diego-marina-expands-with-two-huge-new-ballrooms-just-in-time-for-comic-con/)

Nice find. I hope these new ballrooms could increase the odds for folks like myself who usually end up skipping Ballroom 20 because of the time commitment. If they have a couple more rooms of that size, maybe it'll make it easier to get in to one of those panels without having to sacrifice your whole day?

Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: juliafrood on March 21, 2016, 10:59:23 PM
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Nice find. I hope these new ballrooms could increase the odds for folks like myself who usually end up skipping Ballroom 20 because of the time commitment. If they have a couple more rooms of that size, maybe it'll make it easier to get in to one of those panels without having to sacrifice your whole day?

They would have to actively schedule things that draw the same crowd to splinter it.  Ballroom 20 doesn't have a wait because there's nothing else to do in San Diego at that time, Ballroom 20 has a wait because the events they schedule there draw more fans of that specific subject than the room supports.  If enough Hannibal fans want to see a Ballroom 20 panel to make for a wait, they're not going to give up and trot off to something else instead when it's full, because they could already be doing that.  There are plenty of other things to do now.

What WOULD have helped with that wait, would have been another room with a capacity larger than Ballroom 20.  This will allow some of the panels outgrowing the other rooms to move up as well, which will be nice.  Plus maybe those other rooms can have things like fan panels and such.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Ghost6 on March 21, 2016, 11:42:27 PM
It feels like we've been reading about the convention center expansion for ten years now.   I can't wait to see the mmm expansion that's has taken place in the last two years. 
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: citizenmilton on March 22, 2016, 07:52:11 AM
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Ballroom 20 doesn't have a wait because there's nothing else to do in San Diego at that time, Ballroom 20 has a wait because the events they schedule there draw more fans of that specific subject than the room supports. 

I agree a higher-capacity room would be ideal, but I'm hoping for incremental progress here.

Beyond the crowds overflowing, another significant factor is also panel-waiting. I've talked to a number of people in Ballroom 20 who are really there just for one or two panels they really want to see toward the end of the day's lineup, but sit through most or all of the day's programming to get to one or two key panels.

Even if the only thing the organizers did with this new space would be to split up the current B20 lineup across three separate rooms, I hope that'd potentially make a noticeable difference in the panel-waiting and loosen up the crowds a bit and increase the odds of getting into panels and decrease wait times.

Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: juliafrood on March 22, 2016, 11:38:55 AM
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Beyond the crowds overflowing, another significant factor is also panel-waiting. I've talked to a number of people in Ballroom 20 who are really there just for one or two panels they really want to see toward the end of the day's lineup, but sit through most or all of the day's programming to get to one or two key panels.

Even if the only thing the organizers did with this new space would be to split up the current B20 lineup across three separate rooms, I hope that'd potentially make a noticeable difference in the panel-waiting and loosen up the crowds a bit and increase the odds of getting into panels and decrease wait times.

That's something I didn't think about!   I hope CCI has given it some thought and spreads the "high interest" panels out among the three rooms.   
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: UntrueBeliever on March 22, 2016, 11:44:26 AM
I not so sure a second facility would lessen lines that much unless they move some of the Hall H/Ballroom 20 stuff to that facility. You have to give people incentive to go there. Otherwise, people are still gonna just camp out for the "big" panels at the convention center like they always do.

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Mel on March 22, 2016, 11:49:29 AM
Unless they are just gonna move back into that space all the things that were previously there that had been relocated to MGH while it was under construction.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: catvonawesome on March 22, 2016, 01:13:18 PM
Quote
I hope CCI has given it some thought and spreads the "high interest" panels out among the three rooms.

They could also work on the scheduled times. I know a lot of networks and production companies sort of have their time slot set but if you put the big draw stuff first thing, let the people camp out for the night who want to camp out, and then they walk out of that panel after the first one rather than sitting in a room all day, taking up seats, waiting for a panel at 4pm.

Ballroom 20 has not been too bad the past couple of years. I sort of take a winging it approach to some afternoon panels because I didn't want to be stuck in there all day just for a single 45 minute panel. I don't think I've had to wait more than 30 minutes to get in there for the past 2 years.

Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on March 22, 2016, 10:43:25 PM
Chargers want hotel tax hike for $1.8B ‘convadium’

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2016/mar/22/chargers-nfl-stadium-hotel-tax-hike/

The Chargers will ask San Diego voters in November to raise taxes on hotel stays to 16.5 percent from today’s 12.5 percent rate to help build a $1.8 billion hybrid stadium and convention center next to Petco Park downtown, said sources close to the team’s negotiations with lawyers, bankers and the hotel industry. Paying for the project would fall solely upon hotel guests, the Chargers and the National Football League, unlike previous proposals that tapped general taxpayer funds for part of the financing. “The city’s full faith and credit is not put at risk,” a source said Tuesday. A spokesman for Mayor Kevin Faulconer said he wouldn’t comment until the plan was released publicly.

At 16.5 percent, San Diego’s tax on hotel stays contemplated by the initiative would become one of the nation’s highest. Among regional competitors, Anaheim adds 17 percent to room rates, while San Francisco's tax is as high as 16.25 percent. Chargers consultants are pushing to complete initiative language this week so they can start gathering signatures next month. As of Tuesday night, the team was proceeding on the assumption that passage would require a two-thirds majority vote, the sources said. Political analysts say that winning a super-majority is exceedingly difficult in California, and particularly in tax-averse San Diego. In 2004, city voters rejected a hotel tax hike of 2.5 percentage points that would have raised money for public safety.

However, the bar in November may prove to be lower: On March 18 a state appellate court ruled in a suit against the city of Upland that tax hikes by initiative require merely a simple majority. Under the financing plan taking shape, the Chargers would deposit $650 million -including $300 million from the National Football League and $350 million from the team - into a trust fund toward the stadium portion’s projected cost of $1 billion. A new, city-controlled agency would contribute $350 million, using sales of tax-exempt bonds backed by the increase in hotel taxes. The Chargers would be responsible for any cost overruns for the stadium piece of the project beyond $1 billion, the sources said. As for the convention center, hotel taxes would back its $600 million construction cost, along with $200 million for land acquisition. The initiative would have the city retain ownership of the land and “convadium” structures, and it contemplates that the city may form a joint-powers authority or other entity to finance and operate the project.

The Chargers would be responsible for game-day expenses and keep naming rights and other stadium-specific licensing revenues, while the city would maintain the convention center and keep any advertising or other revenues specific to that portion of the project. Any non-NFL revenue would go to the stadium authority. Instead of traditional rent, the Chargers would pay $15 million a year (in 2017 dollars) toward an operating and maintenance fund. At Qualcomm Stadium, the team effectively pays no rent. Downtown, the stadium authority would contribute $15 million annually for the stadium maintenance portion to the fund and $10 million for the convention center. Two percent of the total would go into a capital fund to keep the buildings up to date.

Less clear is how the hybrid convadium would look. The Chargers and JMI Realty, their development partner, haven’t decided on a final architectural plan. Sources said two choices are contemplated: A stadium on top of convention space, or a stadium alongside a convention center. The project would be situated at the city-owned Tailgate Park, and extend onto private parcels and a block used as a bus yard by the Metropolitan Transit System. Sources said they simply don’t know where to move the MTS bus yard, but they are hopeful the $200 million set aside for land acquisition will defray much of the cost, along with buying the private parcels. Chargers consultants also plan to include at least 1,300 parking spaces beneath the convadium structure. This would replace the 1,100 spaces at Tailgate Park the city has leased to the Padres.

The stadium portion would include about 65,000 seats - expandable to 75,000 during Super Bowls - as well as luxury suites and other amenities considered essential by team owners for modern NFL venues. The new convention center would stick to the 225,000 square feet envisioned in the city’s plan to expand its convention center toward San Diego Bay, a project that’s been blocked in court by activist attorney Cory Briggs. Briggs, who authored a citizen initiative that’s also seeking to qualify for the November ballot, has likewise sued to invalidate a tourism marketing district funded by a charge of 2 percent on hotel stays.

The Chargers initiative would replace this fee, and guarantee 1 cent of each dollar for a tourism marketing trust fund, with a second 1 percentage point of the 16.5 percent hotel tax going to tourism after a reserve for debt service has been satisfied. Sources close to the Chargers’ financial advisers say the hotel industry will end up with a full 2 percent for tourism marketing, solving the industry’s legal problem with Briggs on the issue. However, some hotel industry operators said privately that they aren’t convinced the full amount will materialize.

Some worry about diminishing their competitive position with tourists. An increase in the tax on hotel stays to 16.5 percent would place San Diego among the top 20 cities in the nation with the highest tax rates, according to a 2015 survey conducted by HVS, a hotel consulting and research firm. The analysis included basic hotel-tax rates, plus special-district levies applied to room rates. The average rate among the 150 largest cities was 13.45 percent, with rates ranging from a low of 8 percent to 18.35 percent. San Diego Tourism Authority CEO Joe Terzi said he was concerned that a hotel tax rate as high as 16.5 percent could place San Diego at a distinct disadvantage with its competitors. “It’s alarming, because it’s an increase that would come at a time when we already have a significant challenge for group meeting business from every other one of our competitors who are expanding their centers and are more aggressive on pricing from both a hotel and convention-center standpoint,” Terzi said.

Hotel owner Bill Evans was equally concerned about the effect a dramatic increase in the hotel room tax could have on meeting and convention business. Still, Evans said that he, like others in the industry, are reserving final judgment on the Chargers plan until they have seen the financing proposal. “When large (convention) groups compare cities, it's not just the hotel tax they're judging us on,” said Evans, executive board member of Evans Hotels. “It’s also the transportation cost to get people to San Diego and we’re the most expensive city to get us to. I don’t support raising the hotel tax to that level unless I understand how tourism is protected, but until we see the language of how this works, I don’t think any hotel person can make the decision yet of whether we support it or don’t support it.”

[Yep, getting my popcorn ready for this latest episode  >:D ]

More here from Voice of SD ->

http://www.voiceofsandiego.org/topics/politics/the-chargers-are-readying-their-own-convadium-tax-hike/
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Bert Su on March 23, 2016, 03:54:07 AM
I hope it's not a big tax hike in everything. Even if they charge a small tax, they would still get a lot of money since hundreds of thousands of people pay for hotels, restaurants etc during Comic Con. They could also use the money we already pay for our badges to fund the expansion given all the price increases which have occurred since 2011.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: catvonawesome on March 23, 2016, 08:07:40 AM
As a visitor, I don't mind the hotel tax hike for convention center expansion as that's the thing I use the most when I'm in town. But, not so much a football stadium.

Mostly, I've just really come to dislike the NFL (after years of being a big football fan) and their bulls**t.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: citizenmilton on March 23, 2016, 08:54:32 AM
Once again, AzT is johnny-on-the-spot with the interesting developments! Thanks for continuing to be the watchdog on this.

The main thing that stood out the most to me is this:

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Less clear is how the hybrid convadium would look. The Chargers and JMI Realty, their development partner, haven’t decided on a final architectural plan. Sources said two choices are contemplated: A stadium on top of convention space, or a stadium alongside a convention center.

So now that they've finally come down to putting their name on the line with the idea - the Chargers might literally bury Comic-Con's "expansion" under their football turf.

The original proposal showed an external "convention expansion" attachment. I agree that it looks ugly and pointless and ruins the aesthetics of the stadium. But the Chargers have been using the "convention expansion" as a political fig leaf to try to hide the fact that they're hijacking convention attendees to fund their stadium.

They seem to have found a path to victory. The polls show a majority of San Diego supports it - now that victory's within their grasp, they're getting even greedier, and are quite frankly considering shoving the "convention expansion" totally under the football field. They can't even bear to look at the ugly attachment, they know it's political b.s., so they're honestly considering proposing what they truly want: when you look at the facility, it's a stadium: for the Chargers, period. If you didn't already know there was a "convention center" under the field, it would look simply like a football stadium.

We're probably going to find out in the next 48 hours which of the two paths they're choosing. The above comments are valid only if they go with the "under-the-field only" option. Maybe they'll get cold feet at the last moment and go with the image that looks more obviously like a compromise and multi-use facility.

EDIT: removed a paragraph here; I initially mis-interpreted the reports which said the convention expansion would be placed under the football field to mean it would literally be underground. Apparently the plan is to make it ground-level, with the football field above it.

As more and more news comes out about this plan, the more I fear Comic-Con fans are going to have to pay higher taxes, higher badge prices, and have a less enjoyable convention experience.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: SteveD on March 23, 2016, 10:05:10 AM
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As more and more news comes out about this plan, the more I fear Comic-Con fans are going to have to pay higher taxes, higher badge prices, and have a less enjoyable convention experience.
I couldn't agree with you more here.  Even if CCI doesn't want or use the space, they will be forced to rent it just to keep any competing convention out during SDCC.

They will need to generate the funds someway or another to cover this added cost.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on March 23, 2016, 01:49:29 PM
From ->

http://www.kpbs.org/news/2016/mar/23/details-chargers-stadium-plan-leak-out/

KPBS asked Chargers' spokesman Mark Fabiani to comment on the proposed stadium plan but he declined. "We're not there yet, in terms of a final draft or the support we would need to move forward," Fabiani said in an email. He said he is evaluating a recent appeals court decision that seems to imply that citizen-sponsored initiatives are not bound by the two-thirds rule for approving special tax increases.


And from the NFL's Commissioner Roger Goodell->

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000646950/article/roger-goodell-no-changes-to-patriots-discipline

On the Chargers potentially staying in San Diego: "They do not have to submit a stadium proposal," Goodell said. "We've been obviously with the Chargers on their downtown alternate and continuing dialogue with the city, also. This is something that is going to play out in the community over some period of months here. We will try to play whatever role we can to be productive. We think it would be great to get a new facility built in San Diego."
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: omraged9 on March 23, 2016, 09:58:28 PM
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That's something I didn't think about!   I hope CCI has given it some thought and spreads the "high interest" panels out among the three rooms.

I'm a little late on the topic but I agree. After hosting so many popular panels in the past several years in Ballroom 20, CCI should have an idea of what's a popular panel (like Agents of Shield, Teen Wolf, etc.) and what's not (like the CBS pilot shows). If you have 3 same-sized rooms as B20, for instance, you could spread out the 6 most popular panels and place each of them in the 3 separate rooms and one in morning and one in afternoon. If they do it that way, you may have almost no wait for each room. But sadly they probably won't do it since they seem to allow networks to dictate the schedule and room. So even with MMM's new rooms, we'll probably still see the same popular shows jam-packed one after the other in B20.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Jim Watari on March 24, 2016, 09:51:02 AM
Well at least TV shows that were relegated to the smaller conference rooms (6A , 6BCF and 6DE) might get put into these new conference rooms.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: dcuodust on March 25, 2016, 06:57:17 PM
Build a Chargers stadium with a majority vote? Not so fast.

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2016/mar/25/raising-taxes-prop-13-under-attack/

Editor's note: Those who want to build a new NFL stadium in San Diego have had their hopes raised by a court decision that suggests it would take only a majority vote, not a two-thirds vote, for the public to approve the project's financing. We asked the president of the Howard Jarvis Taxpayers Association for his views about the ruling.

In its 38-year history, Proposition 13 has been under constant assault. The attacks have come from the Legislature, the media and especially the courts. After initially being upheld against a myriad of constitutional challenges, the California Supreme Court then began punching loopholes in the landmark tax reform measure.

Prop 13 was intended, first and foremost, to limit out-of-control property tax increases that were forcing tens of thousands of Californians out of their homes. It did this by imposing a 1 percent cap on the base property tax known as the ad valorem tax and limiting subsequent increases to 2 percent annually. But Howard Jarvis and the voters were well aware how creative local governments could be in dreaming up new kinds of taxes to make up for the tax relief conferred on property owners by Prop 13. For that reason, it also imposed a two-thirds vote requirement on other local taxes. Today, because of court rulings and other constitutional taxpayer protections - including Proposition 218, sponsored by the Howard Jarvis Taxpayers Association (HJTA) - local taxes going into a general fund require a simple majority vote of the electorate while taxes intended for special purposes require a two-thirds vote.

The two-thirds vote is important because taxation is government’s most draconian power and as a prerequisite to its exercise the constitution requires a higher degree of consensus. Constitutionally imposed two-thirds vote requirements are common. The United States Constitution, for example, mandates supermajority votes in a dozen instances.

Not surprisingly, local governments and tax-receiving interests detest the two-thirds voter requirement as a burdensome impediment to their efforts to extract ever more tax dollars from local citizens. But the tax-and-spend crowd need to be reminded that one definition of democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what’s for dinner.

According to Prop 13 detractors and some media reports, a recent Court of Appeal decision calls into question the viability of the two-thirds vote requirement. While the decision contains some troubling language, some of the commentary has significantly overstated the scope of that ruling.

The decision which is drawing so much attention is California Cannabis Coalition v. City of Upland and in determining this ruling’s impact on Proposition 13, it is important to note how the court itself defined the issues: “The issues raised here [are] whether the imposition of the [cannabis] Initiative’s $75,000 fee is a tax or a fee and whether pursuant to [Proposition 218] the Initiative must be placed on a special election ballot.” Glaringly absent is any mention of the two-thirds voter requirement imposed by Prop 13.

Early in all attorneys’ legal training, we hear the maxim, “cases are not authority for matters not considered therein.” Nowhere in the CCC v. Upland decision did the court say that a local initiative can avoid the two-thirds vote requirement for the imposition of a tax.

Nonetheless, there is troubling language in the decision that is contrary to well-settled principles of initiative law. Specifically, the court ruled that Proposition 218’s rules and procedures relating to voter approval of taxes expressly applied to local governments and thus the implication is that these rules and procedures do not apply to taxes imposed by voters via the initiative power. (Again, the rule at issue was the timing of the local election on marijuana dispensaries, not the two-thirds vote requirement.)

What the court did not cite - perhaps because none of the parties briefed the issue - were the host of cases that hold that the people’s power of initiative is coextensive with that of a legislative body. The Howard Jarvis Taxpayers Association has always argued in defense of the initiative power, saying that if the Legislature (or city council) can do it, so can the people via initiative. But the corollary to this principle is that if the Legislature can’t do something, then neither can the people via initiative. Therefore, because a local government entity may not impose a special tax with a two-thirds vote of the people, then neither can proponents impose a special tax with a simple majority vote.

If, for some reason, the dicta (legalese for superfluous language) in the CCC v. Upland decision says what Prop 13 enemies say it does - and we don’t think it does - then the consequences would indeed be profound and dangerous. It would give local governments a huge incentive to collude with front groups to propose local initiatives which would purport to raise special taxes with a simple majority vote.

While the tax-and-spend lobby may cheer this ruling and hope that the tax floodgates will open, we suspect that local government attorneys are quietly advising their clients to be careful about overreaching. They probably realize that this decision is simply inconsistent with existing law relating to initiatives. Moreover, if any local government or interest group attempted to rely on this case as justification for a pursuing a special tax with a simple majority vote, they know that they would quickly find themselves in front of a judge.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: citizenmilton on March 26, 2016, 03:31:15 PM
Another opinion piece in the Union-Tribune speculates that if the Chargers' proposal gets between 50% and 66.5% voter approval there will be an uncertainty about the project's fate:

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2016/mar/26/considering-chargers-stadium-chances-highly/

The piece also contains an update on the plans:

The team and its partners are expected to announce Monday the details of their citizens’ initiative proposing the building of a stadium and convention center annex downtown.

So, guess we'll finally see the plans on Monday?

As someone who is severely skeptical of the Chargers' proposal, I'll be looking to see what, if any, substance there is in the plans as far as the convention portion of their "convadium" vision. I'm sure the architectural renderings will be beautiful to look at. But will the convention portion of the plans have any informed thought put into them? Will they actually show any understanding of Comic-Con's needs, and how a split-convention experience would work from a logistics perspective? Or will they just photoshop in some cosplayers or people in Batman and Superman t-shirts and try to fool voters into thinking they're actually looking out for Comic-Con's needs?
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Chris Hagish on March 26, 2016, 04:30:29 PM
CCI would have a hard time convincing people (both attendees and booths) that being in such a far building would be worth it.  Also considering CCI released a press announcement basically saying "Chargers are f*ing liars" its going to be funny to watch them try to spin there new stadium as what CCI wants and needs in order to stay in SD
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on March 29, 2016, 03:22:56 PM
From => http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2016/mar/29/east-village-stadium-alternative/

An alternative vision for the Chargers stadium site in East Village will be discussed at 9:30 a.m. Saturday at the Newschool of Architecture & Design, 1249 F St. A group called East Village People, along with the local chapter of the American Institute of Architects and Citizens Coordinate for Century 3, are sponsoring the workshop open to the public. Downtown architect Rob Quigley, who designed the Central Library, long-time city planner Mike Stepner, now a professor at the architecture school, and several other architects and urban designers who make up East Village People have been developing a plan for the 15-acre site, just east of Petco Park, where the Chargers hope voters this fall approve a stadium and convention center annex.

The new presentation is based on possible concepts of a non-stadium plan that were developed at a similar workshop last month. Advocates say a employment center, catering to high-tech companies, would be a better use of the property, now occupied by the Tailgate Park parking lot and the MTS bus yard. About 130 people attended the earlier event. “Considering the significant public investment for these proposed developments, it’s hoped that honest and open dialogue about the best use of East Village South -- who benefits and who will be impacted -- will lead to positive results,” the event announcement said. Since seating is limited, sponsors recommend registering in advance at [email protected]. Information is available from one of the organizers, David Malmuth, at (619) 823-3290. A summary report of last month’s event is available online at ideadistrictsd.com/east-village-south-report.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: citizenmilton on March 29, 2016, 08:18:30 PM
I've become a lil' bit obsessed with this issue. Anyone care to start a GoFundMe to send me to therapy ?  ;)

Some of the best reporters on this issue are tweeting some preliminary details about the new stadium plan. Voice of San Diego's main editor, who recently had CCI's David Glanzer on their podcast, posted these nuggets tonight:

Quote
Scott Lewis ‏@vosdscott
So Chargers have not decided if their proposed stadium will include a roof. Fred Maas says they're working on assumption they need 2/3 vote.

Full details of initiative coming Thursday (published in @sdut). No designs/renderings though. Big (yuge) design issues still up in the air.

Like they don't know yet whether the convention part of the convadium will be part of the bowl or underneath.

Until shown otherwise, I will hope for the best and hope this shows that they're genuinely wrestling with the needs of the convention center, and not just putting the convention attachment into the plans as a messy afterthought. I fear they're just biding time and trying to find a politically-expedient set of images, and that the true powers behind this (the Chargers & anti-Convention forces) will freeze out Comic-Con and adopt a "you take what we give you" attitude. But I'll remain optimistic. For now.

Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Mel on March 29, 2016, 08:34:38 PM
This "convadium" is SO FAR from the CC......all the way on the other side of Petco Park. It's ridiculous, it is not at all beneficial to big conventions that need more space than the current CC has for them. It would just be another mini-CC essentially. They are only playing this game to try and fool the public into thinking this plan will save Comic-Con too. It won't. Though I also don't think Comic-Con staying is necessarily contingent on an expansion either, if we believe what David Glanzer tells us.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: citizenmilton on March 29, 2016, 09:47:39 PM
And another front-page article just landed...

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2016/mar/29/chargers-stadium-plan-acee/

The most interesting new detail in it, for me, is the mention of the timeframe:

Quote
a likely opening in 2022 (a date the team acknowledges is more realistic than its stated goal of 2020). - See more at: http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2016/mar/29/chargers-stadium-plan-acee/#sthash.4SoDhjY6.dpuf

Wow. Even if they got this approved this year, it's still six years away! Holy moly. I can't remember the original proposed timeframe for the contiguous expansion but I don't recall it being anywhere near that long.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on March 30, 2016, 07:08:52 AM
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Wow. Even if they got this approved this year, it's still six years away! Holy moly. I can't remember the original proposed timeframe for the contiguous expansion but I don't recall it being anywhere near that long.

Welcome to construction in California.  ::)
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on March 30, 2016, 09:52:49 AM
It begins -- 110 pages =>

"Be it ordained by the People of the City of San Diego..."

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/documents/2016/mar/30/chargers-initiative/


And for the tl;dr crowd =>

"We’re getting more and more details about the Chargers plan for a downtown convadium - a joint convention center and stadium. But we’re also hearing more about the rather big decisions the team’s leaders simply haven’t made. For instance, does their idea include the stadium having a roof of some kind?

They don’t know yet.

Fred Maas, the former downtown development guru for the city who is now working for the Chargers and other team representatives provided some more specifics about how the financing would work. It is what we reported here. Though the team did clarify that under its proposal, the operations and maintenance of the new facility would be paid for with the increased hotel-room tax and the team would cover deficits in annual operations only for the stadium part of it. There are other questions too. The Chargers have not made key architectural decisions like whether the convention side of the facility would be underneath or on the side of the stadium or whether the stadium floor itself would be the exhibit space. Maas said the team is working on the assumption it needs to get two-thirds vote to gain approval but would of course be happy if a recent court ruling holds up and only a simple majority is required to raise the hotel-room tax to 16.5 percent from the effective 12.5 percent total levy that exists now.

Finally, the Chargers’ new proposal does not include money to help the city retire existing debt on Qualcomm Stadium."

http://www.voiceofsandiego.org/topics/news/morning-report-how-the-zoo-fails-to-share-the-wealth/


Also, Maas' explanation video and Chargers' FAQ ->

http://www.chargers.com/news/2016/03/30/citizens-initiative-finalized

http://www.chargers.com/news/2016/03/30/faqs-regarding-citizens-initiative
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: citizenmilton on March 30, 2016, 07:07:02 PM
A couple more developments:

The San Diego Convention Center Board Chair Issues Statement Regarding Chargers Downtown Stadium/Convention Annex Plan:

http://visitsandiego.com/media/news/board-chair-issues-statement-regarding-chargers-downtown-stadiumconvention-annex-plan

Quote
"Our clients choose San Diego for a reason, and they told us decidedly in a recent study that they prefer a contiguous expansion.  Our clients love to hold their conventions in San Diego and don’t want to be prohibited from returning due to a lack of exhibit space. We must grow as they grow.  We remain committed to an on-site contiguous expansion.

A separate building, any number of blocks away, does not provide the preferred meeting model that will serve our existing and future clients.

We continue to stress, expanding on our current footprint will allow us to maintain a competitive edge and provide the greatest return on investment for the citizens of San Diego."

One of the chief advisors for the Chargers did a radio interview:

http://www.mighty1090.com/episode/fred-maas-on-chargers-initiative-taxes-roof-parking-jmi-why-its-great-for-san-diego/

In the interview, Maas boasts that one of their visions for the plan for the new "convention center" is to actually use the playing surface of the football field as if it was exhibitor space. What a freaking joke! He called it "Pillar-less open-air exhibition space." Laugh out loud comedy there.

Among the many things they're trying to do with this hybrid facility is boost the numbers in terms of how much new square footage they're providing for conventions. I don't know if the football field surface is being included in the current numbers or not, but, it's a ridiculous idea to consider that as useful exhibition space. Back when they did on-site registration and before the days of RFID badges, maybe it could be used for cattle-call massive lineup situations - but those days will be gone as of this year.


Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Bert Su on April 05, 2016, 12:41:49 AM
I wonder if Comic Con, the city and the state of California are willing to pool together to buy the expansion.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: SleepyPanda777 on April 07, 2016, 05:37:49 PM
Oh.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Zero on April 07, 2016, 05:40:03 PM
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Oh.

[member=2215]SleepyPanda777[/member]: We're asking people to make a small effort to become "active members" to be able to participate in the forum's hotel exchange so that others get a chance to know you. 

Please do not post one-worded replies, as this can be considered spam.

The exchange requires sharing some sensitive information--especially during the transfer process--and please keep in mind that some forum members also like to look at past post activity to help them with their decisions on offers, trades, or giveaways.  This also gives you a chance to look around and see what this forum is about.


Here are some tips:
First of all, you can do it!  Just interact some more with other members of this community and participate on some threads that interest you.  Add your feedback or comments about the topic.  You may also be interested in writing a hotel review here (http://friendsofcc.com/forum/index.php?topic=6079.0) and tell us what you thought of the hotel you stayed in last year.  I'm sure lots of people would love to read about your hotel experience.

(You'll be making a post and not even realize that you can already access the exchange!  It's easy to get lost in the moment when you're interacting with fellow fans who might have the same interests and can understand what you're going through in planning for Comic-Con.)
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: NoNoNuni on April 08, 2016, 11:57:00 AM
I think if the chargers weren't married to the idea of putting the stadium and the convention center together, they'd have better luck pushing a new stadium through. Up here in LA it'll *only* take 4 years to get our new stadium built ...but then again, I am a civilian without knowledge of the local politics, so take that with a grain of salt  ;)



Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on April 09, 2016, 01:16:54 PM
http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2016/apr/08/chargers-briggs-backers-meet-hotel-tax-initiative/

Chargers, Briggs initiative backers to meet

The Chargers, who are poised to start collecting signatures on their stadium ballot measure this month, will be meeting Monday with backers of another citizens initiative that proposes to increase the hotel tax, also a key component of the team's financing plan. While no defined purpose has been set for the meeting, the get-together comes as supporters of the Citizens' Plan measure, authored by attorney Cory Briggs, are getting ready to submit their signatures later this month to qualify their initiative for the November ballot. Meanwhile, the Chargers are getting ready to launch a campaign for their measure, which could also start later this month.

The two initiatives, while somewhat complementary, conflict with one another in many respects and would likely prove confusing to voters come November. The Briggs measure calls for an increase in the hotel tax to 15.5 percent to help fund an off-the-waterfront convention center and tourism marketing, but bars public funding for a downtown stadium. The Chargers plan asks voters to approve a hike in the room tax to 16.5 percent, much of which would help finance their proposal for a hybrid football field and convention center facility. Absent from the Chargers proposal are any incentives for redeveloping the Qualcomm stadium site for a possible expansion of San Diego State and for additional parkland, both key provisions in the Citizens' Plan. Briggs said the Monday meeting was prompted by what he says is an absence of leadership at City Hall. While some council members have indicated they're not supportive of the Chargers stadium plan, Mayor Kevin Faulconer has yet to state his position on the proposed initiative. “The reason we’re having to do these discussions is because unfortunately there’s a vacuum of political leadership, they’re not leading the city so it falls to the principals of the Citizens' Plan and the Chargers to see if there’s something we can do that’s better for the community than what we are already doing,” Briggs said. “That doesn't mean consolidating the initiatives.”

Faulconer's deputy chief of staff, Matt Awbrey, pointed out that Faulconer was the first mayor to "put forward a real stadium proposal, so we recognize the challenges and time it takes to create a fair plan." He added, "Keep in mind that these are private entities working to reach a deal between each other under the citizens’ initiative process." While Briggs said the likely focus of the Monday meeting will be discussion of the two parties’ mutual interest in the future of the Mission Valley site once the Chargers are no longer playing there, sources close to the situation said there are no limitations on what issues will be broached. Chargers special adviser Fred Maas said Friday that the team has already been in “regular dialogue” with backers of the Citizens' Plan. “We're not delusional. Having both initiatives on the ballot layers in a whole new level of complexity we'd rather avoid,” Maas said. “We'd hope we can work out some of the objectives they want to accomplish outside the initiative. I would expect that will be the spirit of the meeting Monday.”

In the event the Chargers were to even consider rewriting their measure, they'd have to do so quickly in order to have enough time to collect signatures for the November ballot. The Chargers on Friday submitted to the City Clerk's office a required proof of publication of its measure, a prelude to collecting signatures, which can begin on April 23. Jeff Powers, a spokesman for the Citizens’ Plan campaign, said Briggs’ group is close to reaching its goal of collecting 90,000 signatures, which are due to the City Clerk April 27.

San Diego hoteliers and tourism leaders have not taken a position yet on the Chargers plan, but some have expressed reservations about the team's proposal to raise the hotel tax to 16.5 percent, which would make San Diego's levy one of the highest in the country. At least 1 percent of the increase - and as much as 2 percent - would be set aside for marketing the city as a tourism destination. While hotel guests already pay 2 percent on their room bills for marketing, Briggs has challenged the legality of the hotelier-approved tax because it was not voted on by the public. A trial is scheduled for later this summer. Board members of the hotelier-run Tourism Marketing District, which is a defendant in the suit filed by Briggs' client, San Diegans for Open Government, have been holding several closed session meetings in recent weeks to discuss the litigation. Those meetings could be focusing, in part, on a possible settlement of the Briggs lawsuit, but both sides have refused to comment.


[Gotta stock up :D

(https://www.friendsofcc.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1078.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fw498%2FAzTx%2FMJ%25202_zpsrvbfnoim.gif&hash=90fa12e68d4b7ec14107be67fb54219456098516)

Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on April 11, 2016, 09:11:53 AM
http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2016/apr/11/chargers-convadium-spanos-ron-roberts/

So, does a convention center annex make sense for San Diego? Not to Convention Center board chairman Laurie Coskey, who, in response to the "convadium" plan, restated the group's desire for a bayside expansion, not a separate building inland. "Our clients choose San Diego for a reason, and they told us decidedly in a recent study that they prefer a contiguous expansion. Our clients love to hold their conventions in San Diego and don’t want to be prohibited from returning due to a lack of exhibit space. We must grow as they grow. We remain committed to an on-site contiguous expansion. A separate building, any number of blocks away, does not provide the preferred meeting model that will serve our existing and future clients."


Also of note from the same article:


A grumpier view comes from a national expert on convention centers, Heywood Sanders. He's written that the national convention center market may be overbuilt. He said San Diego may not need any additional convention space, like, anywhere. "Comic-Con's issues are not just space," says Sanders. It is complaining that "hoteliers are raising rates to astronomical levels" during the Comic-Con period. The costumed attendees do not tend to be big spenders. Sanders has an eye-opening study. If you take Comic-Con and the Rock 'n' Roll Marathon out of San Diego's numbers, there were 320,000 convention-center attendees in 1999 and only 356,000 last year. "These figures don't leap out and tell me San Diego will have a great increase in business," says Sanders. Source: San Diego Reader
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: citizenmilton on April 11, 2016, 08:15:45 PM
And more news:

NBC San Diego is reporting that the Chargers are considering withdrawing their proposal, in favor of Cory Briggs' "Citizens Plan":

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/sports/Chargers-Consider-Dropping-Convadium-Plan-375210551.html (http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/sports/Chargers-Consider-Dropping-Convadium-Plan-375210551.html)

Quote
The initiative released recently by the Chargers includes a new downtown stadium AND basically the same kind of convention center construction project but has not yet entered circulation for signatures, giving Briggs the clear advantage. But where Briggs has the true advantage is in a deal he seems to have struck with the hoteliers.

For years a San Diego hotel cabal has wanted a contiguous convention center expansion and fought tooth and nail against any other kind of major downtown project, be it football stadium or convention center. They want things their way so they can have more control. According to sources close to the negotiations, behind closed doors Briggs has been able to reach a tenuous agreement with the hoteliers.

They have apparently agreed not to throw up any extra road blocks if the Briggs citizens’ initiative is able to reach the ballot this year. That is a monumental win in this process for getting things going Downtown.


This is terrible for Comic-Con, I fear. Looks like the Chargers' ultimate desire: to hijack the convention expansion to provide political cover for a football stadium is going forward, and that one of Comic-Con's key allies in this battle have either switched sides or promised neutrality.

In a few years, looks like we might be taking a few more hours out of our available schedule at the convention to shuffle back and forth and get stuck in the pedestrian gridlock in front of the convention center. If this terrible idea succeeds, I hope that Comic-Con at least is able to extract some transportational concessions, and get some bridges built over E Harbor Drive so that convention-goers can walk freely across without having to wait for vehicular traffic and trains.


Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on April 16, 2016, 01:41:16 AM
SD mayor asks Chargers hard stadium questions

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2016/apr/15/san-diego-mayor-questions-chargers-stadium-plan/

In a letter to the Chargers delivered Friday, San Diego Mayor Kevin Faulconer posed hard questions about cost, taxpayer risk and other aspects of the team’s ballot initiative, which would raise hotel taxes to help finance a joint-use stadium and convention center


http://www.voiceofsandiego.org/topics/government/faulconer-to-chargers-where-does-the-stadium-end-and-convention-center-begin/

Some of those questions hit at a central dilemma facing any joint stadium-convention center facility: Where does the stadium end and the convention center begin?

For instance, Fauloner asked how much of the 385,000 square feet of convention space includes club areas, suites, lounges and meeting spaces that are typically included in stadiums. He also asked whether the facility would include a roof, and if so, how much of the playing surface itself would count as convention space. The exhaustive list of questions also asks for details on lease terms, additional public expenditures as the facility ages, specific cost estimates, anticipated events at the facility, parking and transit, relocation of the Metropolitan Transit System’s bus yard and what would happen in the event of cost overruns or construction delays.

Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on April 20, 2016, 10:14:33 PM
Hotel tax initiative hits signature gathering goal

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2016/apr/20/hotel-tax-hike-initiative-makes-signature/

Backers of the Citizens’ Plan initiative, which would raise the hotel tax to help pay for tourism promotion and a convention center, said Wednesday they had reached their signature-gathering goal for placing the measure on the November ballot. They plan to submit more than 90,000 signatures, collected over the last five months, to the County Registrar of Voters next Wednesday - just four days after the San Diego Chargers launch their signature-gathering campaign for a rival hotel tax measure to finance a joint stadium and convention center downtown. In all, 66,447 valid signatures are needed to qualify either measure for the ballot. The Citizens’ Plan campaign added a cushion of more than 20,000 signatures to ensure the measure will qualify.

“For me, one of the most important parts of getting our signatures is that the public gets to actually vote on tourist taxes, and they haven't had that opportunity in what, a decade?” said former City Councilwoman Donna Frye, an initiative supporter. “And we have the possibility of actually resolving some issues. I'd like to see how it ends.”

The wide-ranging measure, which would boost the hotel tax from 12.5 percent to 15.5 percent, offers what backers say is a legally defensible way to raise funds for tourism marketing, now financed through a 2 percent surcharge on hotel room bills approved several years ago by San Diego hoteliers. Attorney Cory Briggs, who authored the initiative, is challenging that surcharge in court as illegal because it was not voted on by the public. Under the Citizens' Plan, hotel owners would be permitted to deduct up to 2 percent of the charges levied on patrons for tourism marketing, and they could hold back another 2 percent for a new convention center, but only if it's off the waterfront. No public funds, though, could be used for a downtown stadium.

The Chargers are pushing a separate initiative to raise the hotel tax to 16.5 percent, much of which would go toward helping pay for a hybrid $1.8 billion stadium and convention center east of Petco Park. The Citizens’ Plan campaign has raised to date more than $1.2 million, including a $125,000 donation that came in on Wednesday from Ballpark Village LLC, which is developing land near Petco Park and the potential convention center site. The development entity is a collaboration of JMI Realty - former Padres owner John Moores’ firm that was responsible for building Petco Park - and Lennar. Ballpark Village, which has donated more than $870,000 to the campaign, has contemplated developing a portion of its East Village site for a 1,600-room hotel.

Moores, whose contributions and loans total $145,000, favors the initiative because it would clear the way for the redevelopment of the 166-acre Qualcomm Stadium site in Mission Valley for a possible expansion of San Diego State University and UC San Diego in the event the Chargers are no longer playing there. The initiative also offers incentives for dedicating some of the land for park uses. Once the petition signatures are verified by the registrar, the San Diego City Council has the option of either enacting the measure or placing it on the ballot. City Attorney Jan Goldsmith has raised a number of legal issues with the initiative that he said could lead him to recommend that it not be placed on the ballot. Backers dispute Goldsmith’s legal arguments and say he is engaging in politics.

Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Bert Su on April 21, 2016, 01:19:08 AM
If the city needs to jack up the hotel prices, I hope they only do it to the downtown hotels with Comic Con events inside. those places are laready expensive. The richest 1% of Comic Con attendees can afford to stay in those rooms anyway. Don't jack up all the hotel prices
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: SamTurtledove on April 21, 2016, 04:52:05 AM
The city of San Diego has to weather these hotel taxes long after we leave Comic-Con.  Thankfully, the other conventions throughout the year should generate enough hotel nights for their stadium.  And just to satisfy our one weekend in July event??  There has to be a catch behind this.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on April 21, 2016, 06:38:10 AM
Hopefully the tax will pass and we'll be back on track for a contiguous expansion!
Title: Chargers show 1st Look Stadium/Convention Center Proposal
Post by: kohyuta on April 22, 2016, 07:22:46 AM
I'm just not confident they'll be able to get the votes and/or the public funding. I think there's too much bad blood with the talks of an L.A. move. Nevertheless, it's a nice looking concept.


http://www.chargers.com/galleries/2016/04/21/first-look-proposed-stadium-and-convention-center?sf24796897=1
Title: Re: Chargers show 1st Look Stadium/Convention Center Proposal
Post by: Zero on April 22, 2016, 07:54:42 AM
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I'm just not confident they'll be able to get the votes and/or the public funding. I think there's too much bad blood with the talks of an L.A. move. Nevertheless, it's a nice looking concept.


http://www.chargers.com/galleries/2016/04/21/first-look-proposed-stadium-and-convention-center?sf24796897=1

Forum Housekeeping:
Moved the "Chargers show 1st Look Stadium/Convention Center Proposal" thread from "SDCC Housing, Parking, and Transportation" to "CCI General Discussion" since the "SDCC Housing" forum is mostly for hotels, parking, shuttles, and public transportation.

Merged the "Chargers show 1st Look Stadium/Convention Center Proposal" thread into the "San Diego Convention Center Expansion" thread because this is where major discussions regarding the Chargers Stadium proposal and updates to the expansion situation have been established and collected, respectively.

^__~
Title: Re: Chargers show 1st Look Stadium/Convention Center Proposal
Post by: dcuodust on April 22, 2016, 09:43:18 AM
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I'm just not confident they'll be able to get the votes and/or the public funding. I think there's too much bad blood with the talks of an L.A. move. Nevertheless, it's a nice looking concept.


http://www.chargers.com/galleries/2016/04/21/first-look-proposed-stadium-and-convention-center?sf24796897=1
I just think downtown stadiums are always blights on the skyline. IAnd that area, with Petco Park, seems so disconnected from it's surroundings. It goes against everything we understand about urban spaces and their most effective use. Also, it's too far from the Convention Center proper. During the con, with all the people traffic, it would be an annoyance to walk back and forth.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on April 24, 2016, 07:45:52 AM
Chargers kick off initiative with rapturous rally

From:

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2016/apr/23/chargers-kick-off-initiative-with-rapturous-rally/

An estimated 4,000 people showed up on Saturday morning to a parking lot the Chargers hope will one day be the ground floor of a convention center. Funny thing, the words “convention center” were never uttered during the brief remarks given from the stage by Tomlinson, Rivers, Chargers chairman Dean Spanos, commissioner Roger Goodell or the others. (Congressman Scott Peters did mention “tourism.”) Goodell did tell the crowd the new stadium, which would be financed with $650 million from the Chargers and NFL to accompany the $350 million derived from the tax hike, would be “a home for the Chargers and a perfect place for a Super Bowl.” To be sure, the Chargers are selling the project as more than a stadium. The convention space will be a significant part of their stumping. But Saturday’s was a certain kind of crowd. At least half -- and probably more like three-quarters — of the attendees wore Chargers jerseys.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Mel on April 24, 2016, 09:18:09 AM
Ok, last night I was at the Padres game and wondered why there was a Chargers flag hanging from a crane parked in the lot on the east side of Petco Park. *eye roll*
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: citizenmilton on April 25, 2016, 02:25:52 PM
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Hopefully the tax will pass and we'll be back on track for a contiguous expansion!

For those of us who are hoping for a contiguous expansion, I think we should be rooting for the tax to fail.

The two proposals headed for the ballot in November would both have negative impacts for contiguous expansion.

1. The Briggs plan aka "Citizens Plan": explicitly outlaws the contiguous expansion.

2. The Chargers plan: although it doesn't outlaw the contiguous expansion, it greatly reduces any chance we'd see it in the next decade or so. If the Chargers plan passes, the citizens of San Diego will spend $2 billion on a stadium and a "convention annex" which wouldn't be finished until the year 2020. And wouldn't finished being paid for even long after that. The appetite to fund the contiguous expansion will greatly diminish. You could hear the complaints already - "we just built you a whole new building, shut up about the expansion already."

If the Mayor cannot create some grand bargain, then it looks like for this year at least, the needs of the Chargers vs. the needs of Comic-Con are going to be pitted against each other in a zero-sum game.

If the Chargers lose on both of these proposals, and decide to move to LA, that could clear the pathway for the contiguous expansion to succeed more quickly. You could imagine citizens saying, "we just lost the Chargers, we don't want to lose Comic-Con too."

I still don't understand why the Mayor doesn't propose both a new Chargers stadium downtown plus a contiguous expansion. Yes, it's a little more expensive, but it gives the city the chance to do both right, instead of this hybrid approach that might displease everyone and waste a couple billion dollars in the process.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: dcuodust on April 25, 2016, 02:51:20 PM
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I still don't understand why the Mayor doesn't propose both a new Chargers stadium downtown plus a contiguous expansion. Yes, it's a little more expensive, but it gives the city the chance to do both right, instead of this hybrid approach that might displease everyone and waste a couple billion dollars in the process.
I think the best thing that could happen for San Diego, regardless of whether a contiguous convention center expansion ever occurs, is that the vote fails and the Chargers leave. According to a San Diego Union Tribune article from September, the Chargers are worth $1.5-billion. According to Wikipedia, Alex Spanos, the majority owner, is worth $1.7-billion. They should be building their own bloody stadium. If they are trying to blackmail the city, be gone with them.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on April 25, 2016, 04:08:54 PM
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I think the best thing that could happen for San Diego, regardless of whether a contiguous convention center expansion ever occurs, is that the vote fails and the Chargers leave. According to a San Diego Union Tribune article from September, the Chargers are worth $1.5-billion. According to Wikipedia, Alex Spanos, the majority owner, is worth $1.7-billion. They should be building their own bloody stadium. If they are trying to blackmail the city, be gone with them.

That makes a lot of sense to me!
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Bert Su on April 27, 2016, 12:01:36 AM
I wonder what stopping SDCC from putting small business vendors outdoors like they have with industry exhibitors to make more room in the convention center
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: SamTurtledove on April 28, 2016, 01:18:57 AM
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I wonder what stopping SDCC from putting small business vendors outdoors like they have with industry exhibitors to make more room in the convention center

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The Beat just posted an interesting analysis of the entire matter, discussing a contiguous convention center and the economic impact of Comic Con. It's worth a read.

http://www.comicsbeat.com/sd-comic-con-still-wants-a-contigious-convention-center-expansion-but-is-it-still-a-possibility/ (http://www.comicsbeat.com/sd-comic-con-still-wants-a-contigious-convention-center-expansion-but-is-it-still-a-possibility/)

Quote

If a convention center is built across the street or blocks away from the current location, any convention considering an event in San Diego would be forced to determine who gets to stay at the main facility and who is relegated to the “other” venue. Comic-Con experienced a similar scenario some years ago when we attempted to create more exhibit space by moving some exhibitors upstairs to the Sails Pavilion. Even though all exhibitors were in the same building, the fact that some were only one floor removed from others caused a great deal of consternation as they objected to not being on what they considered to be the main exhibit floor. And while Comic-Con currently has some meetings and events offsite, with the exception of Comic-Con’s own T-shirt vendor, they are non-retail in nature, and some offsite event have no official connection to Comic-Con at all."

"However, offsite comics events still have a hard time getting traffic. Being part of the carnival inside the convention center is still the most desired location."
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: dcuodust on April 28, 2016, 12:35:23 PM
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The city of San Diego has to weather these hotel taxes long after we leave Comic-Con.  Thankfully, the other conventions throughout the year should generate enough hotel nights for their stadium.  And just to satisfy our one weekend in July event??  There has to be a catch behind this.
I think Comic-Con is more than just economic. For example, in Toronto, we would never want to lose TIFF because it is our film festival. It means something to us. It is part of our cultural fabric. It seems to me that SDCC is regarded in the same way.

But with respect to economics, what SDCC means to tourism for San Diego, beyond one weekend in July, cannot be underestimated. For five solid days it is the center of entertainment and pop culture. You cannot but that kind of media coverage.

With respect to the Chargers, the economic impact of sports teams on large cities is minimal. It hurts in the immediate short-term as the local economy has to adjust, but long-term the money reenters the economy and people regain employment. Now, what the Chargers mean to San Diego culturally is a different matter. I have never been in San Diego during the NFL season so I cannot speak to that.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: mdla on April 28, 2016, 12:50:37 PM
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For those of us who are hoping for a contiguous expansion, I think we should be rooting for the tax to fail....


2. The Chargers plan: although it doesn't outlaw the contiguous expansion, it greatly reduces any chance we'd see it in the next decade or so. If the Chargers plan passes, the citizens of San Diego will spend $2 billion on a stadium and a "convention annex" which wouldn't be finished until the year 2020. And wouldn't finished being paid for even long after that. The appetite to fund the contiguous expansion will greatly diminish. You could hear the complaints already - "we just built you a whole new building, shut up about the expansion already."


Not just this, but the Chargers plan worries me because it will be pouring resources into a distinctly different place than the convention center.  Even without an expansion, the convention center is in desperate need of an overhaul.  Didn't a panel fall off the roof of Sails a couple of years ago?  At a certain point, expansion or not, San Diego is going to have to put some money into the current convention center to ensure it doesn't become decrepit. 
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Mel on April 28, 2016, 08:01:07 PM
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I think Comic-Con is more than just economic. For example, in Toronto, we would never want to lose TIFF because it is our film festival. It means something to us. It is part of our cultural fabric. It seems to me that SDCC is regarded in the same way.

.

Yes, this......Comic-Con is a big part of the fabric of San Diego and besides, it's our Con. It is *SAN DIEGO* Comic-Con. Which is why I become infuriated when people say it should move. It's our Con! Why the hell should it move? It's not like it was a generic Con that moved here. It's San Diego Comic-Con. Period. There's no "moving" it......you can hold a Con somewhere else, but it's not gonna be the same. It's like telling someone to move 4th of July to Europe or something.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: dcuodust on April 28, 2016, 10:50:11 PM
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Yes, this......Comic-Con is a big part of the fabric of San Diego and besides, it's our Con. It is *SAN DIEGO* Comic-Con. Which is why I become infuriated when people say it should move. It's our Con! Why the hell should it move? It's not like it was a generic Con that moved here. It's San Diego Comic-Con. Period. There's no "moving" it......you can hold a Con somewhere else, but it's not gonna be the same. It's like telling someone to move 4th of July to Europe or something.
You have to admit though: it would be hilarious if they moved it to another city but still called it San Diego Comic-Con.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: janray on April 29, 2016, 05:59:25 AM
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Yes, this......Comic-Con is a big part of the fabric of San Diego and besides, it's our Con. It is *SAN DIEGO* Comic-Con. Which is why I become infuriated when people say it should move. It's our Con! Why the hell should it move? It's not like it was a generic Con that moved here. It's San Diego Comic-Con. Period. There's no "moving" it......you can hold a Con somewhere else, but it's not gonna be the same. It's like telling someone to move 4th of July to Europe or something.
Wondercon WAS a Bay Area convention for many years and CCI bought it and then moved it to Anaheim because of so called Moscone convention center "issues".
I don't want SDCC to move out of San Diego either but I wouldn't be surprised if they eventually do.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: DaveG on April 29, 2016, 07:06:52 AM
i still say they don't need to move anything.  If they really want their premiere convention to be in Anaheim/Los Angeles as has been offered as a suggestion in the past, just make WonderCon the premiere convention and move the date to whatever is most desireable.  You can keep SDCC in San Diego, but just put secondary focus on it and scale it to something the convention center and city can support.  Anyway, that would be easier and less costly than building a whole new volunteer structure in a new location. 

You could always tell San Diego that they can get their status back once they expand, but at that point they can assess the true cost of not doing so earlier.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: NoOtherOptions! on April 29, 2016, 07:14:12 AM
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Yes, this......Comic-Con is a big part of the fabric of San Diego and besides, it's our Con. It is *SAN DIEGO* Comic-Con. Which is why I become infuriated when people say it should move. It's our Con! Why the hell should it move? It's not like it was a generic Con that moved here. It's San Diego Comic-Con. Period. There's no "moving" it......you can hold a Con somewhere else, but it's not gonna be the same. It's like telling someone to move 4th of July to Europe or something.

Lol your homerism is showing.  there's nothing inherent in SDCC that ties it to San Diego.  That said, I adore San Diego the weather's great, the bay is beautiful, etc.  I'd rather it stay there than go to Los Angeles (which I dislike as a city), I'd be fine if it moved to Vegas which is because I think it's better equipped for conventions.  But honestly I'd like it to stay in San Diego.  You guys are rapidly losing a grip on it though, NFL stadiums are an AWFUL deal for everyone involved you should just let the damned Chargers go.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Mel on April 29, 2016, 08:36:59 AM
Sure my homerism is showing. It's our Con. Which is my point I guess. And it is inherently San Diego, IMO. We can't help it ours is the biggest, best and most historic. CCI is a San Diego venture, they are all San Diegans. I honestly think they moved WonderCon to Socal because it's easier for them to handle down here closer to home.

For everyone that complains and wants it moved, I say, you move. Go to another Con. LOL.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: catvonawesome on April 29, 2016, 09:29:42 AM
As someone who comes to San Diego early every summer for SDCC...honestly, I would not follow this convention if it moved. I would probably just end up going to DragonCon in Atlanta (which is a much closer trip and much less money) or NYCC (I used to live there). San Diego gets full vacation time from me. We're there from the 16th to the 25th this year. I just would not do that in may other cities. Maybe in Anaheim I'd do that once to do Disney or Universal, but not every year. We're putting an additional $1200 into just our hotel stay before the con even starts.

For what we're paying for SDCC I could go on an overseas trip and so much of choosing to spend that money with CCI is the location. The city is beautiful. I get to be outdoors during a time it is too hot at home to be outside much (another reason I wouldn't follow to Vegas).  There are plenty of less expensive and less stressful cons to attend. Especially as someone who does not the Hall H stuff. SDCC has the history and the location that draw me in.

Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: perc2100 on April 29, 2016, 09:33:29 AM
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Lol your homerism is showing.  there's nothing inherent in SDCC that ties it to San Diego.  That said, I adore San Diego the weather's great, the bay is beautiful, etc.  I'd rather it stay there than go to Los Angeles (which I dislike as a city), I'd be fine if it moved to Vegas which is because I think it's better equipped for conventions.  But honestly I'd like it to stay in San Diego.  You guys are rapidly losing a grip on it though, NFL stadiums are an AWFUL deal for everyone involved you should just let the damned Chargers go.
Except the employees, offices, etc. in San Diego.

Also, FWIW, I think it's fairly plausible San Diego WILL let the Chargers go; not a lot of people want tax dollars to pay for something that will mostly benefit a billionaire who only pays for around less than half of the total cost for his sports complex.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: dcuodust on April 29, 2016, 09:36:17 AM
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As someone who comes to San Diego early every summer for SDCC...honestly, I would not follow this convention if it moved. I would probably just end up going to DragonCon in Atlanta (which is a much closer trip and much less money) or NYCC (I used to live there). San Diego gets full vacation time from me. We're there from the 16th to the 25th this year. I just would not do that in may other cities. Maybe in Anaheim I'd do that once to do Disney or Universal, but not every year. We're putting an additional $1200 into just our hotel stay before the con even starts.

For what we're paying for SDCC I could go on an overseas trip and so much of choosing to spend that money with CCI is the location. The city is beautiful. I get to be outdoors during a time it is too hot at home to be outside much (another reason I wouldn't follow to Vegas).  There are plenty of less expensive and less stressful cons to attend. Especially as someone who does not the Hall H stuff. SDCC has the history and the location that draw me in.
Same here. For me it is also having a place to stay and I am given a car and San Diego, while rather horizontal, is easy to get around. Anywhere else, the costs would be such, that I'd rather go to London for a week, or make multiple weekend trips to NYC in the summer.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Iris on April 29, 2016, 10:05:55 AM
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Sure my homerism is showing. It's our Con. Which is my point I guess. And it is inherently San Diego, IMO. We can't help it ours is the biggest, best and most historic. CCI is a San Diego venture, they are all San Diegans. I honestly think they moved WonderCon to Socal because it's easier for them to handle down here closer to home.

For everyone that complains and wants it moved, I say, you move. Go to another Con. LOL.

I agree and it probably is my homerism showing. But you also have to consider that this convention was started and flourished in San Diego and we're not just talking about a convention that's been around 10-15-20 years either. It has been 46 years since the first one (though under a different name I believe.) That's nearly 50 years, half a century. At this point, I really believe that it is inherently San Diego.

Now, would I be that surprised if they moved it somewhere bigger? No, I'm fairly realistic about this. But at the same time I absolutely do want it to stay and not just because it's in SD and convenient for me. I just don't particularly like any of the other options for it to move and I even though I already pay for a hotel room etc. in SD (so my costs are more similar to people coming from out of the city) I probably wouldn't follow it to another city (like Las Angeles or Las Vegas.)

I'm really hoping people just let the Chargers go or figure something else out because this is pretty ridiculous. Especially since as someone has said before, the economic impact for a city by major sports teams etc. is pretty much negligible/no impact. So it's ridiculous to ask for the city, and tax payers, to subsidize a new stadium.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: NoOtherOptions! on April 29, 2016, 10:45:04 AM
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Sure my homerism is showing. It's our Con. Which is my point I guess. And it is inherently San Diego, IMO. We can't help it ours is the biggest, best and most historic. CCI is a San Diego venture, they are all San Diegans. I honestly think they moved WonderCon to Socal because it's easier for them to handle down here closer to home.

For everyone that complains and wants it moved, I say, you move. Go to another Con. LOL.

Hey man I got your back, I like SD. I've always had love for that city, I wouldn't live there for more reasons than I care to go into but it's a wonderful vacation location and it's nice that SDCC happens to be there as well.  But something's got to give eventually with SDCC.  I'm happy as I'm at the Marriott Gaslamp so it's no issue for me this year.  BUt so many grumpy people. 
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: NoOtherOptions! on April 29, 2016, 10:59:26 AM
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I agree and it probably is my homerism showing. But you also have to consider that this convention was started and flourished in San Diego and we're not just talking about a convention that's been around 10-15-20 years either. It has been 46 years since the first one (though under a different name I believe.) That's nearly 50 years, half a century. At this point, I really believe that it is inherently San Diego.

Now, would I be that surprised if they moved it somewhere bigger? No, I'm fairly realistic about this. But at the same time I absolutely do want it to stay and not just because it's in SD and convenient for me. I just don't particularly like any of the other options for it to move and I even though I already pay for a hotel room etc. in SD (so my costs are more similar to people coming from out of the city) I probably wouldn't follow it to another city (like Las Angeles or Las Vegas.)

I'm really hoping people just let the Chargers go or figure something else out because this is pretty ridiculous. Especially since as someone has said before, the economic impact for a city by major sports teams etc. is pretty much negligible/no impact. So it's ridiculous to ask for the city, and tax payers, to subsidize a new stadium.

It's actually a net loss, especially when you figure in the space that San Diego could use that land for other things that actually generate revenue.  Not to mention it's funding taken from the convention center expansion that would also generate real revenue.  For example, the Atlanta Falcons are totally screwing their county.  Deadspin if you go look has some great breakdowns at how the only people that actually benefit from publicly paid for stadiums are the billionaire owners with VERY VERY few exceptions.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on April 30, 2016, 10:50:52 AM
From ->

Chargers respond to mayor’s stadium questions

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2016/apr/29/chargers-nfl-stadium-ballot-initiative-questions/

“As discussed with you and your office, the convention center expansion and stadium has not been designed and we welcome the advisory design review process set forth in the initiative,” the team’s letter said. Another key question involves the stadium lease. The initiative requires the stadium’s football team to sign a 30-year lease and agree to not relocate for 30 years, but the mayor pointed out that it also allows bond financing for up to 40 years, potentially leaving the authority repaying bonds without a team for some period. In response, the Chargers said the city would control the term of any bonds for the project, and the actual terms of a lease would be subject to “good faith negotiations between the governmental entity and the primary lessee.” The mayor also questioned how costs would be allocated between the stadium and the convention center. The Chargers said the initiative creates a process for settling any fights about cost-shifting before construction starts, and establishes a review by an independent panel to settle disputes after construction.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: perc2100 on April 30, 2016, 11:34:14 AM
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Hey man I got your back, I like SD. I've always had love for that city, I wouldn't live there for more reasons than I care to go into but it's a wonderful vacation location and it's nice that SDCC happens to be there as well.  But something's got to give eventually with SDCC.  I'm happy as I'm at the Marriott Gaslamp so it's no issue for me this year.  BUt so many grumpy people.

If we're being honest, though, when there are roughly 1 million people (as stated by a CCI tech person last year after General Registration) trying to purchase badges, there are going to hundreds of thousands of people upset NO MATTER WHERE Comic-Con is.  Vegas, L.A, Anaheim, etc. might have bigger Convention Centers, but still wouldn't accommodate EVERYONE (the majority) who wants to go: and all of those cities, IMO, have more unique problems to add to the logistical complications of Comic-Con as its run in San Diego.
If we're being super blunt, people are going to be grumpy and complain REGARDLESS: that's the internet/social media in this day-and-age.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on April 30, 2016, 03:03:17 PM
Perc is right. SDCC has enough of a lure that people will be shut out and complaining no matter where it is located.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: hikanteki on April 30, 2016, 06:04:44 PM
I used to be against the idea of SDCC moving. But then WonderCon moved to the same geographical area as Comic-Con, and over the next few years I noticed a bunch of people from SoCal getting a big head about it on WC's Facebook page. So now Comic-Con can move, or stay, for all I care, and I won't shed a tear either way.

That being said, I don't really see it going anywhere in the near future. I don't think Anaheim and LA have enough advantages to make much of a difference. Vegas will, but IIRC Vegas has never been a serious contender and moving out of state will present challenges that I doubt CCI will want to face.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: hikanteki on April 30, 2016, 06:05:54 PM
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Perc is right. SDCC has enough of a lure that people will be shut out and complaining no matter where it is located.

Agreed. Conversely, this also means they'll have no trouble getting a full show no matter where (and if) they move.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: perc2100 on May 01, 2016, 12:00:13 PM
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Agreed. Conversely, this also means they'll have no trouble getting a full show no matter where (and if) they move.
No doubt.
I was saying that in response to folks who think that moving Comic-Con out of San Diego will somehow magically mean they'll have an easier time getting badges, or Comic-Con will somehow magically seem like it has less people/easier to maneuver around, get hotels, etc.  Almost all of the problems Comic-Con has will not go away with CCI moving the event to another city/state.

I personally kinda really LOVED the idea of: keep Comic-Con in San Diego but shift dates/focus to Anaheim or L.A. WonderCon - Comic-Con will always be in San Diego but it flips with WonderCon as far as panels/events/etc.  I think this is a great "have your cake + eat it too" solution for everyone, though I'm sure logistically it would be quite a challenge (though, I would think, not as big of a challenge of moving completely out of the city or state).
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: dcuodust on May 01, 2016, 12:46:51 PM
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No doubt.
I was saying that in response to folks who think that moving Comic-Con out of San Diego will somehow magically mean they'll have an easier time getting badges, or Comic-Con will somehow magically seem like it has less people/easier to maneuver around, get hotels, etc.  Almost all of the problems Comic-Con has will not go away with CCI moving the event to another city/state.
I think with respect to hotels and transportation it would depend on the city. According to http://loyaltytraveler.boardingarea.com/2013/10/09/top-ten-u-s-cities-by-hotel-rooms/, San Diego is not in the top-10 for hotel rooms as of 2013. Also, I believe some of those cities have larger convention centers and better public transit. With that being said, I'd prefer CCI to remain in San Diego.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: SamTurtledove on May 01, 2016, 01:22:22 PM
Comic-Con generates as much revenue as 2-5 San Diego conventions.


I'm sure the convention center can have their pick of any comic focused convention, if CCI leaves.

A smaller convention could fill 15,000 room nights.  But from those other conventions listed, they really don't need MV hotels, like a 130,000 attendee convention uses .

Plus, isn't one of the issues not location, but the tourist loving month of July?  Wherever CCI goes for its 50th, will it have to be in July or August to capitalize on media?
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: catvonawesome on May 01, 2016, 01:57:38 PM
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I think with respect to hotels and transportation it would depend on the city. According to http://loyaltytraveler.boardingarea.com/2013/10/09/top-ten-u-s-cities-by-hotel-rooms/, San Diego is not in the top-10 for hotel rooms as of 2013. Also, I believe some of those cities have larger convention centers and better public transit. With that being said, I'd prefer CCI to remain in San Diego.

Some of those would knock off the list for not wanting to be there in July. Houston, Phoenix, Dallas, possibly Atlanta, Orlando, Las Vegas.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: UntrueBeliever on May 01, 2016, 02:35:23 PM
I'd love DC. But, that's just because I wouldn't have to travel anywhere. On the downside, it'd probably destroy everything Awesome Con has created over the last 4 years.

Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Bert Su on May 02, 2016, 06:42:14 PM
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Agreed. Conversely, this also means they'll have no trouble getting a full show no matter where (and if) they move.
Well you never know unless they tried to expand the convention center. A large percentage of badge sales go to scalpers so once SDCC makes more badges, scalpers will lose interest
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: cciveg on May 04, 2016, 03:28:31 PM
After much discussion and analysis Vegas would solve most of the problems. CCI, not SDCC, could actually grow (gasp  :o), higher attendance- although it would grow slowly as the "Wahh, it's too hot to wear my velvet robes" crowd won't go..at first. More, much more, close hotel rooms and not going or $699 a night. Actual families could attend and have a place to stay without having to get a 2nd mortgage, what a concept  :D
CCI has outgrown San Diego. It's been that way for about a decade now. The hotel situation is not going to get better, it will only get worse.
The long promised expansion has been revealed to be the illusion it always was. Not going to happen. Foosball rules the day, so maybe a taxpayer funded stadium. Will be fun.
Badges used to be referred to as memberships, a membership to a non profit organization with a mission. If CCI is to be true to it's mission, it needs to grow. It cannot in San Diego.
But back to other things.... :-*
 
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Mel on May 04, 2016, 03:55:40 PM
2 years ago at Talk Back John Rogers said they are at their limit for how big they want the show to be and they do not intend to grow. They believe this size is the max for them and the type of show they want to put on.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: perc2100 on May 05, 2016, 08:01:20 AM
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2 years ago at Talk Back John Rogers said they are at their limit for how big they want the show to be and they do not intend to grow. They believe this size is the max for them and the type of show they want to put on.
That's awesome! Same size + more space would be a win for all!

Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: SamTurtledove on May 05, 2016, 10:39:30 AM

Nope, as was said before, SDCC attendees don't spend relative to their numbers.

https://twitter.com/SDConventionCtr/status/728263711643738113

2 conventions in SD $120 Million
38,000 people
90,000 room nights

1 SDCC in SD $130 Million
130,000 people
65,000 room nights

So it's not about just a comic convention generating money. Part of the appeal must be the publicity.  I'm sure the visual of seeing movie and tv shows draped on hotel buildings, concentrated along the Gaslamp, can't be matched as easily in Las Vegas.



Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: cciveg on May 06, 2016, 09:49:39 AM
The convention center is not expanding. Give it up 8)
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: DaveG on May 06, 2016, 10:31:27 AM
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The convention center is not expanding. Give it up 8)

This feels so true.  This talk has gone on for about as long as this forum has existed with no end in sight.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Iris on May 06, 2016, 01:02:48 PM
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After much discussion and analysis Vegas would solve most of the problems. CCI, not SDCC, could actually grow (gasp  :o), higher attendance- although it would grow slowly as the "Wahh, it's too hot to wear my velvet robes" crowd won't go..at first. More, much more, close hotel rooms and not going or $699 a night. Actual families could attend and have a place to stay without having to get a 2nd mortgage, what a concept  :D
CCI has outgrown San Diego. It's been that way for about a decade now. The hotel situation is not going to get better, it will only get worse.
The long promised expansion has been revealed to be the illusion it always was. Not going to happen. Foosball rules the day, so maybe a taxpayer funded stadium. Will be fun.
Badges used to be referred to as memberships, a membership to a non profit organization with a mission. If CCI is to be true to it's mission, it needs to grow. It cannot in San Diego.
But back to other things.... :-*

Now, someone already brought up that CCI thinks the convention is at the best size it can be for them to handle. So there is that But there is also the worry about Hall H (or whatever the equivalent would be in Las Vegas) lines.

What if there is still a huge line for the big panels or to get into the Exhibition Hall the next day? Where will those lines go in Las Vegas? Especially as they have to anticipate these lines being formed outside of convention center hours (because it pretty much has to close at some point. In SD it closes after the Exhibit Hall and last panel except certain bathrooms which can be left open. Pretty sure they can't just keep it open) which means these lines pretty much HAVE to be outside of the convention center, especially for lines so large. I don't particularly think LV will work well for that, what with temps possibly still being in the 80s overnight and the fact that there are still lines during the day to try and get into later panels/in the mornings.

Some people would probably hope it would be a deterrent to the huge lines etc., but I doubt CCI wants to take the chance of not planning on there being lines like that. Regardless of if they discourage it publicly, especially for LV, doesn't mean it won't reflect poorly on them in some way if people still do so etc.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: hikanteki on May 06, 2016, 02:37:38 PM
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Now, someone already brought up that CCI thinks the convention is at the best size it can be for them to handle. So there is that But there is also the worry about Hall H (or whatever the equivalent would be in Las Vegas) lines.

What if there is still a huge line for the big panels or to get into the Exhibition Hall the next day? Where will those lines go in Las Vegas? Especially as they have to anticipate these lines being formed outside of convention center hours (because it pretty much has to close at some point. In SD it closes after the Exhibit Hall and last panel except certain bathrooms which can be left open. Pretty sure they can't just keep it open) which means these lines pretty much HAVE to be outside of the convention center, especially for lines so large. I don't particularly think LV will work well for that, what with temps possibly still being in the 80s overnight and the fact that there are still lines during the day to try and get into later panels/in the mornings.

Some people would probably hope it would be a deterrent to the huge lines etc., but I doubt CCI wants to take the chance of not planning on there being lines like that. Regardless of if they discourage it publicly, especially for LV, doesn't mean it won't reflect poorly on them in some way if people still do so etc.

Although I doubt it’s going to move to Las Vegas, this is the biggest reason is why I’d support it moving there. I also want the line-campers to get rained on like it nearly did last year. ;)
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: SamTurtledove on May 06, 2016, 07:37:35 PM
Folks would just pawn their Funko and Hasbro exclusives to pay for Las Vegas debt.  Not sure how the offsites can find an appropriate casino venue, but like the idea of a Las Vegas scaled Chris Hardwick show! 
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on May 07, 2016, 01:42:16 PM
From:

http://www.voiceofsandiego.org/topics/news/morning-report-conservative-opposition-chargers-plan-solidifies-minus-mayor/

Our Scott Lewis finds only a few power players - besides the Chargers themselves - who support a downtown stadium: BoltMan, the ubiquitous fan symbol, and John Kratzer, CEO of JMI Realty, which runs the Omni Hotel and developed the Ballpark Village. On the other hand, Mike McDowell, director of the Lodging Industry Association, a major coalition of hotels, panned the measure, saying convention groups did not want what the Chargers were proposing. Joe Terzi, the head of the Tourism Authority, said the Chargers’ plan is just not something industry leaders wanted. Also, basically every politician running for local office has come out against a taxpayer-funded stadium. The Chargers’ stadium adviser, sent in a scathing rebuttal to Terzi’s comments.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Bert Su on May 09, 2016, 12:27:39 AM
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This feels so true.  This talk has gone on for about as long as this forum has existed with no end in sight.
Just because it's taking a long time doesn't mean it won't happen. Look at how long it took for the US to get rid of slavery and segregation. lolxd
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: DaveG on May 09, 2016, 04:29:47 AM
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Just because it's taking a long time doesn't mean it won't happen. Look at how long it took for the US to get rid of slavery and segregation. lolxd

So I guess at this point the fight for convention center expansion is so that future generations might benefit from it.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on May 09, 2016, 06:44:48 AM
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So I guess at this point the fight for convention center expansion is so that future generations might benefit from it.

Pretty much. I gave up on the whole thing when the hotel tax (that was the best shot at paying for an expansion) was revoked.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: citizenmilton on May 09, 2016, 07:56:07 AM
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Pretty much. I gave up on the whole thing when the hotel tax (that was the best shot at paying for an expansion) was revoked.

I probably should give up too, but, I've been fighting the good fight online, trying to engage the debate from a Comic-Con attendee's perspective since the vast majority of CCI fans/attendees aren't aware of what's going on.

And I expect it's only going to get more frustrating as the year goes on. There's a handful of negative developments that could happen:

-the Mayor could end up buckling to political pressure and endorse the Chargers' plan.

-CCI could end up conceding the fight, thinking that they've already lost, and make the calculation it's better to get on board with the new status quo than to fight it.

-The election results in November don't actually settle the question.

That last one is very likely, and will be extremely frustrating. If the Chargers' measure gets, say, 55% approval by voters, it will allow both sides to claim victory. The true result would need to be litigated in court, and who knows how long that would take?

The other frustrating thing, from an outsider's perspective, is that nobody in leadership in San Diego has presented the most obvious solution: which is to give both parties what they really want: give the Chargers a standalone stadium, and give the Convention Center a contiguous expansion. But that option won't even be presented to voters.



Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: mark on May 11, 2016, 07:41:14 AM
This aired yesterday on the KQED California report. http://ww2.kqed.org/news/2016/05/10/san-diego-mayor-kevin-faulconer-paves-potential-gop-road-to-relevance (http://ww2.kqed.org/news/2016/05/10/san-diego-mayor-kevin-faulconer-paves-potential-gop-road-to-relevance)

Mentions the stadium and convention center issues.

Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on May 11, 2016, 08:12:26 AM
City Council candidates also chiming in ->

From ->

http://www.voiceofsandiego.org/topics/opinion/citizens-plan-stadium-blueprint-actually-shot/

"Barbara Bry is a high-tech entrepreneur and candidate for San Diego City Council District 1.

I too support expansion of the convention center because of its importance to sustaining our visitor industry, but I want to pursue an expansion plan that actually has a chance of being financed and built. The Citizens’ Plan, supported by San Diegans for Open Government, the League of Conservation Voters, John Moores, Donna Frye and Cory Briggs, provides a path for financing the expansion — paid for by the hotels that will benefit from it — and building it downtown, where it will have maximum positive impact on continued redevelopment of the East Village. Importantly, the Citizens’ Plan also prohibits any public subsidy for a football stadium. Another advantage of the Citizens’ Plan is that it offers a vision for re-use of the Qualcomm site for university-related development and creation of a river park and trail that could transform Mission Valley. And it would generate at least $18 million per year for the city’s general fund that could be used to begin addressing the city’s huge backlog of neighborhood infrastructure improvements."


Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Bert Su on May 18, 2016, 06:16:41 PM
I wonder how our government can spend 100 million dollars on F35 planes but can't rebuild a convention center for one of its cities.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Mario Wario on May 18, 2016, 08:28:17 PM
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I wonder how our government can spend 100 million dollars on F35 planes but can't rebuild a convention center for one of its cities.
Why would the U.S. Government help with this? Action or help is only done when it is truly national importance in scope. This is not. The whole convention center expansion mess, as with any local issue, is San Diego's problem. Not mine nor others that are not part of this area. The city had nothing to do with the F-35 program. Which gets to another point.

Using the jet as an example is not correct since it is apples and oranges. The United States is doing this for national security and to stay ahead of Russia and China. Making the convention center bigger doesn't help with that, but would help the local area. Indeed, you are right that the F-35 cost is stupid. Heck, this jet still doesn't beat the F-22 nor the F-16 in a dog fight. What made it expensive was the design -- Lockhead Martin tried to create a fighter jet with too many moving parts with untested tech in it.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: DCD74 on May 22, 2016, 12:01:06 PM
It appears the NFL Super Bowl Committee will ponder awarding San Diego a Super Bowl in the near future if it would help secure a San Diego Stadium.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/05/21/owners-may-guarantee-a-san-diego-super-bowl/ (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/05/21/owners-may-guarantee-a-san-diego-super-bowl/)

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/05/21/owners-may-guarantee-a-san-diego-super-bowl/
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: NoOtherOptions! on May 23, 2016, 06:17:58 AM
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I wonder how our government can spend 100 million dollars on F35 planes but can't rebuild a convention center for one of its cities.

Why would you expect the federal gov to purchase a convention center for a city?  Complain about federal allocation all you want, but those funds would be better spent on infrastructure.  THe US has a crumbling infrastructure, driven across a bridge lately?  How safe do you think that bridge was?
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Iris on May 23, 2016, 09:56:31 AM
My coworker and I were just talking about the primaries and he mentioned the vote for the Chargers. He is all for funding the stadium, even after I explained how it's a major financial loss to ask for the city (and residents and tourists) to pay for it. Sigh.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on May 26, 2016, 07:14:46 AM
Yep, now they want to drag George Lucas into the middle of this mess...

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/sports/How-George-Lucas-Can-Keep-The-Chargers-In-San-Diego-380879751.html#ixzz49jNzJB00 (http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/sports/How-George-Lucas-Can-Keep-The-Chargers-In-San-Diego-380879751.html#ixzz49jNzJB00)
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on May 26, 2016, 08:00:52 AM
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Yep, now they want to drag George Lucas into the middle of this mess...

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/sports/How-George-Lucas-Can-Keep-The-Chargers-In-San-Diego-380879751.html#ixzz49jNzJB00 (http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/sports/How-George-Lucas-Can-Keep-The-Chargers-In-San-Diego-380879751.html#ixzz49jNzJB00)

It's more of a hypothetical piece by the author at this point -- "So I offer you … The Force;" more from the same ->


Keeping Comic-Con is a good idea for San Diego. The prospect of having George Lucas involved in a convention center expansion is something SDCC would have to take a long look at.

The potential game day experience would be off the charts. Let the museum design and the stadium design share some common factors. Give Lucas a few spots inside to have a real Star Wars or Indiana Jones kind of feel to it with display cases holding Luke’s lightsaber and Indy’s hat and bullwhip. Heck, we can even nickname the new stadium The Death Star. Have C3PO and R2D2 show you where your seats are. If the Chargers were going to let Bob Iger have a say in their Carson facility, they could do a lot worse than getting some creative input from George Lucas.

Now, the biggest question is: Are there enough people with the creativity in this town to pull it off? San Diego politics have been dominated by small-mindedness for years. The Chargers are not exactly known for their outside-the-box experiments, either. I’m not saying this idea is a slam dunk. It might never work. Lucas may have no desire to be in San Diego. But isn’t it worth a phone call? Isn’t it worth actually exploring? You never know until you try, and sometimes a little effort goes a long way.


It'll be interesting to see if - and how much - Lucas is willing to battle the political climate in a third city to realize the museum or if this will just remain a hypothetical solution. A Watto speech comes to... mind: "Mind tricks do not work on me, only money."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fchC0Dscm9I


Also, from VOSD ->

The Waterfront Convention Center Expansion Is Dead - So Why Are We Still Talking About It?

http://www.voiceofsandiego.org/all-narratives/convention-center/a-contiguous-convention-center-is-a-nonstarter-so-lets-move-on/

Now that the Chargers initiative proposes to combine the non-contiguous expansion with a stadium, the hoteliers and politicians are arguing that a tax hike would kill tourism. Hoteliers don’t want to share their facility with the Chargers, and they don’t want the competition that would come with a new hotel that’s been proposed to go alongside the convadium. Enough is enough. The convadium is the solution on the table that solves both the stadium and Convention Center dilemmas that have plagued San Diego for years. It’s time we embrace the solution we have and allow San Diego to step into the future with a facility that will enable us to compete with other major cities for tourist dollars.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on May 28, 2016, 11:27:06 AM
From ->

Backers of hotel tax measure can’t celebrate yet

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2016/may/27/citizens-plan-initiative-requires-signature-check/


A random check of petitions by the San Diego County Registrar of Voters revealed Friday that the total estimate of valid signatures fell short of surpassing a required threshold, thereby triggering the need for a 100 percent check of all signatures. That higher-level certification process must be completed by July 12. According to the Registrar’s office, the Citizens’ Plan needed more than 73,092 valid signatures under the random check but fell short, reaching a projected total of 69,949 signatures. While still very close to the number needed, state law requires a more rigorous certification of all signatures.


As part of the verification process to determine whether the signatures are in fact valid, the Registrar selects a random 3 percent sample of signatures and then extrapolates the results over all the petitions to come up with a projected total of valid signatures. If the projection falls between 95 percent and 110 percent of what is needed, which is what happened with the Citizens’ Plan, a signature-by-signature check is needed to determine the exact number.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: citizenmilton on May 31, 2016, 07:49:20 AM
[member=2163]AzT[/member] - thanks again for keeping us up-to-date on these developments.

IMO, as awesome as the Lucas museum idea would be in theory, in practice I think it's a total non-starter simply due to the space requirements. The Chargers' proposals for the stadium (with convention attachment) have been heavily critiqued, even though the designs are just preliminary/non-binding/proof-of-concept type sketches - one of the critiques is there isn't a lot of physical space, and they might be fudging the numbers in terms of what they count as 'convention space.' I can't see how this already-packed hybrid facility can serve a third purpose. Now, if we could get the Chargers completely out of the picture, get the mayor to back a contiguous expansion plus a Lucas museum + convention annex in the location the Chargers want the convadium to be in, now that'd be an intriguing concept :)

& the Citizens' Plan signature situation: I am going to laugh out loud in my best demented Joker voice if they somehow end up failing to meet the minimum threshold for signatures to get on the ballot. The anecdotal reports I've seen from San Diegans about the behavior of these signature-gatherers were atrocious: they were pushy and completely lying about the proposal, making it sound like it was something that Comic-Con was behind. I'd love to see them miss the mark and not get on the ballot. As I've delved further into this story, the ringleader behind that plan strikes me as a sleazeball lawyer who's gaming the system for personal benefit and could end up causing the citizens of San Diego to waste 1.4 billion dollars on something they don't need. I suppose these initial findings indicate that they will pass the threshold, just barely - but if they uncover a big stack of fraudulent signatures in there, it'd be a fitting outcome.

Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: perc2100 on May 31, 2016, 08:37:54 AM
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[member=2163]AzT[/member] - thanks again for keeping us up-to-date on these developments.
I am going to laugh out loud in my best demented Joker voice if they somehow end up failing to meet the minimum threshold for signatures to get on the ballot. The anecdotal reports I've seen from San Diegans about the behavior of these signature-gatherers were atrocious: they were pushy and completely lying about the proposal, making it sound like it was something that Comic-Con was behind. I'd love to see them miss the mark and not get on the ballot. As I've delved further into this story, the ringleader behind that plan strikes me as a sleazeball lawyer who's gaming the system for personal benefit and could end up causing the citizens of San Diego to waste 1.4 billion dollars on something they don't need. I suppose these initial findings indicate that they will pass the threshold, just barely - but if they uncover a big stack of fraudulent signatures in there, it'd be a fitting outcome.
I've seen it first hand.  I live in San Diego proper (i.e. not a suburb like Poway, or Rancho Bernardo, or Chula Vista, etc) so I see that stuff in full force regularly when I'm shopping for groceries or whatnot.  I'm also a San Diego Padres season ticket holder, and the signature people sort of 'camp out' by all the entrances/exists to get signatures.  Most of the people I've encountered have been respectful: assertive but cautiously so - making sure you're 100% aware of what they're there to do, but not being belligerent about.  I have seen, unfortunately, more than a couple of what is described above: ardent sports fans who are ignorant of the details who HAVE to keep The Chargers in San Diego for...reasons?
For me personally, after the way Dean Spanos has acted since his plans were outed by the LA Times last winter, I'm pretty against The Chargers right now.  Financially their plans aren't great for the city (though not necessarily as bad as they could be, which still means they're bad  ;) ), they don't seem supportive of what the Convention Center wants, and our own local politicians don't even seem on board for the most part.  I refuse to sign this initiative at this time, and it is MASSIVELY unfortunate, IMO, that Spanos et al have still failed to release detailed, transparent plans/answers to hard-hitting financial questions (for example, who pays for the massive costs of removing/moving the transportation facilities & where will those facilities be moved to and how much will all of that cost?).
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Mel on May 31, 2016, 10:03:26 AM
I was at Vons, just this past Sunday and a guy was out there collecting signatures saying it was for the Convention Center expansion and telling people it would save Comic-Con. Now, I wonder what that was for?? Since this one supposedly already had the sigs collected. Maybe it was the Chargers' version?
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: citizenmilton on May 31, 2016, 01:31:34 PM
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I was at Vons, just this past Sunday and a guy was out there collecting signatures saying it was for the Convention Center expansion and telling people it would save Comic-Con. Now, I wonder what that was for?? Since this one supposedly already had the sigs collected. Maybe it was the Chargers' version?

Yeah, the CoryBriggs-led "Citizens Plan" has submitted their signatures. The Chargers' version, the "Citizens Initiative" is still gathering signatures.

It continues to be irksome to hear reports of Chargers advocates mislead voters in terms of Comic-Con's view of the proposal.

And it's also humorous to see both measures touted as "Citizens" this or "Citizens" that, because they're both of, by, and for powerful interest groups.


Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Kevin Rutan on May 31, 2016, 02:25:58 PM
It would be nice if the factions were a little more honest but that isn't likely. Both Cory Briggs plan to line JMI's pockets and the Chargers nebulous plan keep linking themselves to helping keep SDCC but neither is really championing a plan that helps anyone but themselves. I laugh anytime someone involved says convadium though and how can you have a realistic budget if you don't even have a plan for what type and how much convention space you are going to have. No one should ever vote for funding for something that doesn't even have a fully realized draft yet.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Miss Kitty on May 31, 2016, 06:36:24 PM
It's not exactly the expansion, but the sails pavilion is finally getting new "sails" in October/November!
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Mel on May 31, 2016, 10:07:53 PM
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Yeah, the CoryBriggs-led "Citizens Plan" has submitted their signatures. The Chargers' version, the "Citizens Initiative" is still gathering signatures.

It continues to be irksome to hear reports of Chargers advocates mislead voters in terms of Comic-Con's view of the proposal.

And it's also humorous to see both measures touted as "Citizens" this or "Citizens" that, because they're both of, by, and for powerful interest groups.

Oh.....figured. Guy didn't mention a THING about the stadium or Chargers. He was telling a lady it was to expand the CC so San Diego can keep Comic-Con. Hand to God! I should have interrupted to say something, but those sig collectors are so shady and half the time filthy and stinky to boot. I just didn't even want to engage.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: semigeekgirl on June 02, 2016, 12:01:10 PM
Architects say the "convadium" won't work: http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2016/jun/02/chargers-spanos-convadium-nfl-goodell/

More than an entertainment option for thousands of San Diegans who patronize the Chargers, a football palace downtown (plus a convention center annex) would be an economic catalyst for the city, say "convadium" supporters who include Bolts chairman Dean Spanos and spokesmen of John Moores, a powerful real estate player and former Padres owner.

San Diego voters, perhaps as soon as November, are expected to decide the fate of the Chargers' initiative that seeks a $1.15-billion subsidy through a higher hotel tax.

As a catalyst for batting around ideas about what to do with land near Petco Park, plus the vast Mission Valley site where the Chargers have played since 1967, the convadium is a booming success.

Chatter has flowed steadily since Chargers consultants Mark Fabiani and Fred Maas briefed team-selected local media (read: not politicians) first on the 110-page plan in March.

Seeing this as their Thomas Paine moment, local pols have penned essays and white papers on the convadium. They've talked up a storm, while saying their views reflect those of voters who include many Bolts fans.

So, the clash of ideas has given off sparks.

Alas for the Bolts, the heat recalls the Vikings pass rush that battered Philip Rivers in September.

Local leaders of both main parties have panned the plan, or asked pointed questions about it. Mayor Kevin Faulconer's queries filled 15 pages.

Weighing in this week was a group of local architects.

Like other reviewers, the authors first set forth their pro-Bolts bona fides.

The verdict echoed many others: this won't fly.

Like many San Diegans, the American Institute of Architects San Diego (AIASD) would like to see a NFL franchise remain in San Diego. However, our 900 member organization is dedicated to advancing good urban planning and design in San Diego, and we have many concerns about the current Convadium proposal. We also feel it is critical to remind San Diegans there are better alternatives.

Worries include red ink gushing onto city ledgers due to cost overruns, and the site being far too small.

The designers also foresee a quagmire downtown if the 65,000-seat stadium is built. Interstate 5 "will become a parking lot on game days."

The current proposal provides only 1,300 parking spaces, replacing only the existing parking at Petco Tailgate Park. While the Petco and MTDB parking structures provide some relief, adjacent neighborhoods such as the Sherman Heights and Barrio Logan, already heavily impacted, will bear the brunt of the parking and tailgating that go with football games. Additionally, football games require drop‐off areas and parking for approximately 75 buses, has that been considered?

Demands on public transit sprouted other yellow flags.

The trolley system in East Village is not designed to accommodate football games. The Qualcomm Stadium trolley stops, and others nearby, have large platforms designed to move large volumes of people quickly. The tracks are also elevated to separate queuing trolleys from surface auto traffic. In contrast, East Village stops are not designed for those volumes and the trolleys run in the streets. The East Village trolley stops will be overwhelmed and trolley cars queuing for fans will block the cars trying to enter or leave the area. The costs to fix these problems can easily run into the tens of millions of dollars. Who will pay for it?

Others concerns lengthen the list.

The architects, however, offer a solution: build a new stadium in Mission Valley. On the same 166-acre site, create a riverfront park and a campus for San Diego State.

This seems like a win, win, win, win situation for all San Diegans, if the Chargers owners would only listen. Instead, they have embarked on a flashy and expensive campaign to persuade San Diegans that the East Village is a better location, but the proposal carries huge risk for San Diego taxpayers. They want us to believe this is the best deal for us, we say not so fast.

My take: The Chargers decided against the Mission Valley plan suggested by Faulconer's nine-person panel of volunteers. The day before the team declared for downtown, Spanos asked Faulconer that $200 million be added to the $350-million subsidy in the Mission Valley plan, said County Superviser Ron Roberts.

The answer wasn't yes, Roberts said.

If the convadium plan meets defeat, would the Spanoses reconsider Mission Valley?
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Bert Su on June 03, 2016, 01:14:44 AM
If Comic Con tries to accommodate everyone on the planet who wants to attend SDCC, CCI should try to plan a 4 or 5 story convention center after the next expansion. Since the convention center can't expand too far outward, they should build.a taller convention center
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: NCDS on June 04, 2016, 11:37:18 AM
For all those who keep mentioning Vegas I was just there and a follow PRB filmed this.  This is a good reason Vegas will create more problems than solve. 

Enjoy :)

(https://media.giphy.com/media/ABoaCMjkoqmIg/giphy-downsized-large.gif)
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on June 04, 2016, 12:10:59 PM
I don't understand what's happening. Sorry, guess I'm just clueless. He drops a bottle and it fizzes out? Not sure how this is related to being in Vegas?
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: mlgagne on June 04, 2016, 12:24:33 PM
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I don't understand what's happening. Sorry, guess I'm just clueless. He drops a bottle and it fizzes out? Not sure how this is related to being in Vegas?

I think it's just a perfectly captured moment of a "typical" sort of thing you generally see in Vegas. To me, it looks like he had probably been drinking and went to the ATM with his beer, and then had a little "accident." I've only been to Vegas once but this type of behavior occurred on the norm during the week I was there, so I can't say that I'm surprised!

I think that the suggestion is that judging by the fact that this is frequently occurring behavior there, maybe Vegas isn't "socially" best the answer to CCI's spacing issues.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: semigeekgirl on June 04, 2016, 12:24:58 PM
I think because he's drunk and it's a bottle of alcohol? Vegas has no open-container laws, so you can drink on the street.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Mel on June 04, 2016, 01:15:25 PM
Yep....Vegas is drunk and drugged central. Pretty much encouraged. You can walk down the street swilling booze......and many people go there specifically just to party.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Angology on June 04, 2016, 04:16:21 PM
Okay-I don't want Comic-Con in Las Vegas either, but they do hold conventions there all the time. It's not as depraved as all that. Is it appropriate for a family based Con like SDCC, no, but I love going to Las Vegas, so I hate seeing it trashed. Maybe I just have blinders on when I go there (okay-I have seen some things I can't unsee, but not everywhere you turn or anything). I don't gamble or drink when there, I just love the shopping and the food (we usually see a couple of concerts too).

Back on topic-I have been following this thread and loving all of the background and research that has gone on here (except for the LV bashing. lol). Ah the bureaucracy! And if the architects aren't on board-that's a big red flag to me. Does anyone else see "Convadium" and think "convoluted"?


Ang,
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: citizenmilton on June 06, 2016, 12:17:38 PM

The Convadium May Just Be a Con

http://www.voiceofsandiego.org/topics/opinion/convadium-may-just-con/ (http://www.voiceofsandiego.org/topics/opinion/convadium-may-just-con/)

This is a very interesting article which is written by an interested party who has taken a look into the Chargers' main example as a model to base the new "Convadium" off of, the Lucas Oil facility in Indiana, and he crunches the numbers and discovers that there isn't much of an argument in favor of a hybrid facility. To quote:

Quote
Looking at the types of events that used the Indianapolis facility, it becomes clear that it essentially operates as just a stadium and doesn’t really offer much on the convention side of the ledger. The majority of attendance and events are from sports and entertainment-type bookings. Sporting events ranging from professional, collegiate and high school football, to NCAA basketball games, marching band competitions, monster truck rallies and supercross races made up the vast majority of attendance at the facility.

There's also a couple of highly detailed white papers attached to the op-ed piece. One is an exec summary, the other is more thorough. The concluding paragraph in the exec summary really sums it up though:

Quote
If the Chargers want support for the Citizen’s Initiative, they will need to demonstrate that the
facility will operate more effectively than Lucas Oil Stadium. Based on the low occupancy rates,
heavy reliance on the field for events, and the types of events, it is reasonable to conclude that the
facility does not add value as a convention center expansion. A stand-alone roofed stadium would
undoubtedly be able to accommodate all of the events held at Lucas Oil Stadium. It would be
beneficial to the public if the Chargers could provide a concrete example of where the convadium
model can operate as an efficient convention center expansion that caters to actual convention
business.

Time and time again, each time the Chargers' plans are put to any scrutiny, it reveals just how worthless their concept is as far as the greater needs for the convention center.



Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: NoOtherOptions! on June 06, 2016, 12:58:04 PM
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I think because he's drunk and it's a bottle of alcohol? Vegas has no open-container laws, so you can drink on the street.

Not quite true, Vegas absolutely has open container laws. There is a "non enforcement zone" on the strip though.  So while it's technically not legal it's not enforced.  This is coming from someone who lived there 22 years btw.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: NoOtherOptions! on June 06, 2016, 01:00:57 PM
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For all those who keep mentioning Vegas I was just there and a follow PRB filmed this.  This is a good reason Vegas will create more problems than solve. 

Enjoy :)

(https://media.giphy.com/media/ABoaCMjkoqmIg/giphy-downsized-large.gif)

Huh that's not from Vegas, that's widely circulated I think that's somewhere in Europe IIRC.  Also ATM's in Casino's don't even look like that.  The one's on the floor where you'd see trashed people are typically SUPER well marked and not branch affiliated. 
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: semigeekgirl on June 06, 2016, 01:13:07 PM
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Not quite true, Vegas absolutely has open container laws. There is a "non enforcement zone" on the strip though.  So while it's technically not legal it's not enforced.  This is coming from someone who lived there 22 years btw.

The Las Vegas Sun disagrees: http://lasvegassun.com/news/2015/jan/09/las-vegas-drinking-laws-explained/

I don't live in Vegas but I visit about once a year and I was very surprised when you said it was illegal. I'm not a fan of breaking laws by accident, so I'm glad this didn't turn out to be correct.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: NCDS on June 06, 2016, 01:15:59 PM
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Huh that's not from Vegas, that's widely circulated I think that's somewhere in Europe IIRC.  Also ATM's in Casino's don't even look like that.  The one's on the floor where you'd see trashed people are typically SUPER well marked and not branch affiliated.

Well boo them they posted it in the Punk Rock Bowling Thread after the trip.  While I go to Vegas every year I am not an expert on all the ATM's in all the hotels.  Plenty of drunks in Vegas though.  I know I was one of them last weekend.

I really posted it to give everyone a laugh not to get overly technical on the debate or bash Vegas, just thought everyone needs a smile sometimes.

I hope it made someone smile. 
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: NoOtherOptions! on June 06, 2016, 01:23:07 PM
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The Las Vegas Sun disagrees: http://lasvegassun.com/news/2015/jan/09/las-vegas-drinking-laws-explained/

I don't live in Vegas but I visit about once a year and I was very surprised when you said it was illegal. I'm not a fan of breaking laws by accident, so I'm glad this didn't turn out to be correct.

Huh? What you linked basically reinforces my point.  Do you realize how many churches are on the strip? From your article: There are some exceptions: Drinking isn’t allowed within 1,000 feet of a church, synagogue, public or private school, hospital, withdrawal management facility or homeless shelter.   The strip itself is 4.2 miles, 1000 feet is roughly .2 mile's (.18) you don't think you're constantly breaking open container laws?  It's widely known that it's a non enforcement zone on the strip for open containers.  You can't drink in a vehicle, you can't have glass containers, how is that "there are no open container laws"?  There's at least 3 homeless shelters that run parallel to the strip as well.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: NoOtherOptions! on June 06, 2016, 01:28:02 PM
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Well boo them they posted it in the Punk Rock Bowling Thread after the trip.  While I go to Vegas every year I am not an expert on all the ATM's in all the hotels.  Plenty of drunks in Vegas though.  I know I was one of them last weekend.

I really posted it to give everyone a laugh not to get overly technical on the debate or bash Vegas, just thought everyone needs a smile sometimes.

I hope it made someone smile.

It is indeed a funny picture, you typically see people on the strip carrying those big novelty cups or plastic cups filled with cheap booze on the strip, not big 40s like that.  Just a staunch defender of my hometown is all :) no worries wasn't offended.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on June 09, 2016, 06:03:12 PM
Is a Comic-Con museum headed to Balboa Park?

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2016/jun/08/comic-con-museum-proposed-hall-of-champions/

Comic-Con’s presence in San Diego could be more firmly cemented with a special comic-centric museum that is currently being discussed for development in Balboa Park. Details remain sketchy, but leadership of the Hall of Champions, which honors the legacy of San Diego’s sports legends, announced Wednesday that it has been in talks the last year with Comic-Con International about locating a museum there. So far it’s undecided whether such an attraction would simply share space with the Hall of Champions or occupy nearly all of the 68,000-square-foot, memorabilia-filled venue next to the Starlight Bowl.

“I heard they might be interested in doing something, so I made contact and began a conversation, and it’s been going on for awhile,” said Hall of Champions board member Dan Shea. “We have a space that could be considered under-utilized for what we have. Comic-Con is an iconic community group, and we would love to see them stay here, so we thought, wouldn’t it be great to have a museum for them in our hometown. And that’s what we talk about when we get together now and then.” But no deal has been reached, and it could be some time before a museum even materializes, Shea acknowledged. “There’s no hurry to move it along,” he said.

Comic-Con International spokesman David Glanzer was equally vague about the prospects for a Balboa Park museum devoted to the popular arts icon, a San Diego presence since 1970. The four-day convention, which now draws more than 130,000 attendees, is contracted to stay in San Diego through 2018. Asked about what the museum might showcase and how much space it might occupy, Glanzer responded, “We're still in discussions. I'm sorry but we haven't gotten that far yet.”

Shea said an announcement about the possibility of a museum was made, in part, to put to rest “silly things we were hearing about what people thought they knew about this.” The notion of a museum devoted to Comic-Con is not a new one. Tourism Authority CEO Joe Terzi said that plans for a now stalled expansion of the city’s waterfront convention center had at one time included the possibility of a Comic-Con-themed museum.
More recently, the Chargers suggested that a Comic-Con museum could be housed in its proposed downtown stadium and convention facility that it’s hoping to finance with an increase in the hotel room tax, subject to voter approval. “We have not been a part of the discussions with Balboa Park, but our interest is to always find more opportunities in San Diego for them to put down roots here,” Terzi said. “For us, the Hall of Champions is a great facility with a great history. Financially, it’s not a great performer, and we think a Comic-Con museum would activate a good portion of Balboa Park and create a reason for more people to go to Balboa Park.”

Shea said he does not know specifically how much revenue the Hall of Champions takes in from admissions and rental for special events, but insisted the museum is not hurting financially. According to the Hall of Champions’ most recently available tax return, it took in more than $1.7 million in annual revenues, nearly half of which came from grants and contributions, while expenses totaled more than $1.5 million.
Al Kidd, who formerly ran the sports museum from 2004 to 2011, said that revenue from events and special programs far exceeded admissions from museum goers. The nonprofit sports museum dates back to 1961, when it opened in its first home, the House of Charm, in Balboa Park. It has occupied its current location since 1999.

Said Shea, “I think (a Comic-Con museum) would give the building a better and higher use and would certainly increase revenues and volumes. In part, this is about looking down the road and what is the legacy for (founder) Bob Breitbard. So is it financial? From that perspective 20 years down the road, sure, but not financial in that we need to get somebody in here today.”
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: citizenmilton on June 10, 2016, 09:14:46 AM
Chargers Plan Opponents Pick a Name and Start Fundraising

http://www.voiceofsandiego.org/topics/politics/chargers-plan-opponents-pick-a-name-and-start-fundraising/ (http://www.voiceofsandiego.org/topics/politics/chargers-plan-opponents-pick-a-name-and-start-fundraising/)

Quote
A new committee called “No Downtown Stadium — Jobs and Streets First” is getting ready to launch a political campaign against the Chargers ballot measure, which has not yet qualified for the November ballot. The principals of the group include Rob Quigley, the well-known architect who designed the Main Library in East Village. Lani Lutar, a lobbyist and former CEO of the Taxpayers Association along with April Boling are also principals. More may join.

As soon as they start fundraising, I'll likely contribute to their efforts. It's unclear whether the group will have anything to say on the matter of the contiguous expansion desired by CCI, but, anything that helps stop the Chargers' plan to raise conventiongoers' taxes to pay for their stadium and split Comic-Con in half - is going to get my support.



Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Bert Su on June 10, 2016, 02:15:57 PM
Good. I wasn't much of a sports fan anyways
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: perc2100 on June 10, 2016, 04:48:20 PM
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Good. I wasn't much of a sports fan anyways
On the flip side, the Convadium is up to the next step in getting on the ballot
http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2016/jun/10/dean-spanos-chargers-convadium-clerk-nfl/
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on June 16, 2016, 10:11:46 PM
Repair$ on tap for convention center sails

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2016/jun/16/convention-center-repair-loan-approval-expected/

Quote
The Convention Center's aging rooftop sails pavilion is inching closer to a long-awaited costly overhaul, thanks to the expected approval later this month of a state loan of more than $25 million. San Diego, port and convention center leaders this week signed off on loan terms, a prerequisite for gaining approval from the California Infrastructure Economic and Development Bank, whose board is expected to act June 28 on the San Diego request.

If approved, the 25-year loan will clear the way for long-needed repairs that had been deferred until the Convention Center Corp. could identify funding that it was unable to cover in its budget. The city, unwilling to cover the costs, jointly applied with the center for a loan from the state's infrastructure revolving fund.

If authorized by the state board, San Diego's $25.5 million loan would be the largest since the first IBank loans were doled out in 2000. Recently approved loans have ranged from a few hundred thousand dollars to a $25 million safe-drinking-water project in the city of Santa Cruz. Of the four separate projects targeted for the convention center funding, the 27-year-old sails pavilion, which suffers from torn fabric and deteriorating fasteners and cables, is clearly the most expensive. If the loan is approved, the center would be obligated to cover yearly payments of $1.6 million over the next 25 years, with repayment expected to start in November. The city, however, has agreed to backstop the center in the event it's unable to make a yearly payment.

A day after the City Council agreed to repayment terms for the loan, the Convention Center Corp. board on Wednesday voted in favor of the financing plan. In a memo to his board, budget committee chairman Gil Cabrera pointed out that "due to the significant cost estimates associated with these projects, self-funding without financing would have put significant strain on the corporation's financial reserves and cash balances." Also voting this week in favor of the financing arrangement was the San Diego Port Commission. The loan, should it be approved by the state, would cover the following repairs:

â-ª Sails Pavilion ($18 million). Remove and replace the entire roof structure. Also included is the replacement of the concrete floor and rooftop chillers.

â-ª Escalator modernization ($3.7 million).

â-ª Cooling tower replacement ($1.6 million). Remove and replace five existing cooling towers.

â-ª Replacement of the west building?s existing fire alarm system ($1.9 million).

Cabrera said he expects construction work to begin in November or December, with completion of the sails pavilion project targeted for January of 2018. The last scheduled repair, the overhaul of the escalators, should be finished by November of 2018, he said. The advantage of the state infrastructure loan is that it carries a below-market interest rate - 3.59 percent - and it is a quicker, more easily accessible source of funding than going for a separate bond issue, Cabrera said. Even after the completion of the repair projects, the center anticipates more than $28 million in additional improvements and repairs over the next decade.

"That's something we'll have to deal with from our operating budget or the city's," Cabrera said. "We'll do our best to tackle as much as we can within our operating budget, but we will likely have to come back to the city for assistance."

As repair bills mounted in recent years, the Convention Center Corp. board hired a consultant in 2014 to explore the possibility of securing revenues from naming rights. It was estimated that some $22 million could be generated over the next 20 years, but so far no companies have signed on. Concerns about the center's deferred maintenance were even raised in a county grand jury report released last year. The grand jury concluded at the time that an agreement between the city and corporation needed to more clearly spell out who is responsible for financial obligations.

Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on June 20, 2016, 09:01:09 PM
$30k on a "study" -- so much $ being thrown at / around this issue...

(emphasis mine)

Hoteliers study Chargers stadium-convention proposal

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2016/jun/20/hoteliers-study-impact-chargers-stadium/

Quote
If voters are asked to raise the hotel room tax to pay for a downtown stadium and convention center, San Diego hoteliers want to know if their properties will see any return on that investment. Toward that end, the hotelier-run Tourism Marketing District on Monday agreed to spend $30,000 on a study that will attempt to analyze what benefits, if any, accrue from a multipurpose complex that has been proposed by the Chargers. The study is expected to be completed by the end of this month or early July.

The Chargers, which recently submitted more than 110,000 signatures to the city in hopes of qualifying their downtown stadium plan for the ballot, have proposed raising the hotel tax from 12.5 percent to 16.5 percent to help fund the bulk of the $1.8 billion project. San Diego's hotel and tourism industry has been pushing for an expansion of the convention center on the waterfront, but that project has been stalled since a judge ruled that the plan to finance it with a hotel tax is illegal because it was not approved by the voters. Hoteliers, though, still argue that convention goers prefer a contiguous expansion of the center over a convention annex.

"The question is simple: If we build a non-contiguous center, how much TOT (transient occupancy tax) will you make with a stadium and without a stadium," said Bill Evans, who chairs the Tourism Marketing District board. The district oversees revenues collected from a 2 percent surcharge on hotel room bills for tourism marketing. "This shouldn't be about contiguous vs. non-contiguous. We want to know how much benefit will there be by adding a stadium to the center, and as the TMD, we're very focused on return on investment."

The hotel industry has yet to take a formal position on the Chargers' proposed initiative. In all, the team's proposed tax hike would support $1.15 billion of the Chargers project cost, with $350 million going toward building a football stadium near Petco Park, $600 million for an adjoining convention center, and $200 million to buy land.

The move by the marketing district to study the project's impact from a hotel revenue perspective comes on the heels of a $90,000 study last year that analyzed a contiguous expansion vs. a separate convention center annex. That study was funded by the city and the Convention Center Corp. The analysis found that additional convention space, no matter where it was located, would deliver an economic return but the financial rewards were greater with an enlarged center on the current bayfront site than a campus-like facility several blocks to the northeast. HVS, a Chicago-based convention, sports and entertainment facilities consulting firm hired by the TMD, stated in its proposal that a joint stadium convention complex could potentially have a "unique impact on the ability to attract conventions and trade shows."

HVS Managing Director Thomas Hazinski said his firm would look at three cities - Atlanta, St. Louis and Indianapolis - where stadiums are adjacent to or connected to convention centers. He acknowledged, though, there is "nothing quite like" what the Chargers are proposing. As part of the analysis, HVS said it will use the case studies to identify strengths and weaknesses of a multi-purpose complex while exploring possible booking issues associated with having to coordinate with an NFL team. Among the many factors it will analyze is the potential demand for a standalone convention center compared with a combined stadium and convention complex and the related hotel room nights generated by the two scenarios.

Chargers stadium point man Fred Maas said Monday that he thinks it's important for studies like the TMD's to look beyond just the potential for added hotel room revenues. "We're looking forward to what the TMD study shows and also maintaining a dialog with the hoteliers," Maas said. "But you also need to look at what hotels could be built as a result of this, not just the existing base."

See also ->

http://www.kusi.com/story/32276624/san-diego-visitor-industry-calls-for-another-hotel-tax-study

"Contiguous space is very important to us. It allows retailers to be in one location, have fans and attendees in one location. It's something we're really concerned about," said David Glanzer, Comic-Con's Vice President for Communications. Glanzer said traffic flow for retailers would be inhibited at a smaller annex, and San Diego is in competition to keep Comic-Con, whose contract runs out in 2018. "Other cities come to us and say well you could go through all those hoops or you could come to our city where you have contiguous space," Glanzer said. Comic-Con also needs discounted room rates for many of the 130 thousand visitors who attend this annual event. The concerns about room rates and a contract extension can be negotiated. The problem for Comic-Con is neither the Chargers Stadium Plan nor the Citizen's Plan solves it's space problem. Both plans are for expansion away from the Waterfront.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: hikanteki on June 22, 2016, 05:11:23 PM
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"Contiguous space is very important to us. It allows retailers to be in one location, have fans and attendees in one location. It's something we're really concerned about," said David Glanzer, Comic-Con's Vice President for Communications. Glanzer said traffic flow for retailers would be inhibited at a smaller annex, and San Diego is in competition to keep Comic-Con, whose contract runs out in 2018. "Other cities come to us and say well you could go through all those hoops or you could come to our city where you have contiguous space," Glanzer said.

Didn?t Glanzer previously say that an expansion of the convention center was never a concern for Comic-Con, and that it was entirely about hotel rates?  :o
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: semigeekgirl on June 22, 2016, 06:52:07 PM
The actual quote from Glanzer doesn't mention more space, just contiguous space. The article author is the one reference the "space problem".
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Mel on June 22, 2016, 07:40:20 PM
I think Glanzer just means to say they have no interest in non-contiguous space.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: hikanteki on June 22, 2016, 08:17:53 PM
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The actual quote from Glanzer doesn't mention more space, just contiguous space. The article author is the one reference the "space problem".

Not sure what you?re saying, as contiguous space is space. I only left in the sentences with quotes directly attributed to Glanzer...not the author?s reference at the end. And Glanzer is quoted as saying that other cities have offered more contiguous space...which hints that that is a concern for them.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: semigeekgirl on June 22, 2016, 08:49:11 PM
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I think Glanzer just means to say they have no interest in non-contiguous space.

Yes, that's what I meant. I thought he was implying that any additional space, if not contiguous, would be basically useless.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Mario Wario on June 22, 2016, 10:40:58 PM
So...pretty much the same thing -- nothing new. Until I see something actually becoming realistic, each new thing is meaningless. One side says this; the other says that. San Diego can't do that, but it actually could. They don't want more space, however, they actually do. RIP.

(I could make a TV series with this, lol.)
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Angel_ on June 23, 2016, 12:59:59 AM
I've developed a Pavlovian response to the phrase "convention center expansion."  Whenever it gets mentioned in the news I mutter profanities at my computer, shiver, and avoid the "news" for weeks. Then I eventually come back to this thread to see if anything is actually happening, find out not much, curse some more, and then disappear from this thread again.

Seriously this saga will never end ever.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: citizenmilton on June 23, 2016, 08:00:54 AM
I don't think it's fair to say nothing's happening... it's just that nothing *good* is happening from Comic-Con's perspective.

Two Chargers-friendly ballots have collected over 100,000 signatures to get on the ballot. Observers of this process expect both of them will be certified (even though one is being audited) and they'll both get on the ballot.

There's a very complicated legal issue that is presently unclear which will determine whether their proposals will have to get 2/3rds voter approval (which is near impossible) or 50%+1 voter approval (which, according to polling by the San Diego Union-Tribune, is indeed possible if not likely).

If the courts decide on the lower vote threshold, then it's going to be a complete nailbiter of an election in November. It's quite possible the Chargers are going to win this, and Comic-Con is going to get screwed over and have to make a terrible choice: either accept the off-site stadium expansion, and the higher taxes & likely higher badge prices that go along with it, or move to another city.

I'm completely flummoxed by Comic-Con and Mayor Faulconer's "do nothing" approach. They both publicly state they want a contiguous expansion, but there isn't a counter-proposal to the Chargers' concepts on the ballot this year. Their inaction might doom them. I guess it's a political calculation, but it could go badly.

Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Angel_ on June 23, 2016, 02:01:24 PM
Yeah I didn't say "nothing" happened but "not much."  Like we are getting Sail Pavillion updates, but the progress right now isn't much bigger than when I decided to read this thread months ago.

Sorry I joined the thread just to complain. I was just attempting to be humorous.  Clearly fell flat.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Bert Su on June 23, 2016, 07:15:55 PM
If they're not going to expand, CCI could always make more room by putting some exhibitors outdoors. It's not like it ever rains this time of year.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on June 23, 2016, 07:26:07 PM
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If they're not going to expand, CCI could always make more room by putting some exhibitors outdoors. It's not like it ever rains this time of year.

Unlikely, since Glanzer has often cited (check his VOSD interview and the KUSI story upthread) keeping exhibitors in one area - to guarantee they all get the same potential amount of attendee foot traffic bu$ine$$ - as a primary reason why CCI is still aboard the contiguous expansion train.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on June 26, 2016, 07:58:19 AM
From ->

Marriott doubles down on convention business

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2016/jun/25/marriott-marquis-debuts-107m-convention-expansion/

San Diego's biggest space hog, Comic-Con, which long ago ran out of room to cram its always sold-out event into the neighboring Convention Center, will be among the first beneficiaries of Marriott's much expanded footprint. For the first time, the July gathering, which already depends heavily on the waterfront hotels for added space, will move its badge pick-up operation from the convention center to the Marriott's new ground-floor ballroom.

The expansion also has the potential to help, rather than hurt, the neighboring convention center when spillover space is needed. Comic-Con, for one, says it welcomes any help it can get in better accommodating the more than 130,000 attendees at its July convention. "We're excited about the expansion to the Marriott Marquis and look forward to exploring how it can help address our need for additional meeting space during the show," spokesman David Glanzer said. "I know we'll be utilizing some of their space this year and hopefully expand on that as the need arises."
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: citizenmilton on June 27, 2016, 07:44:26 AM
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Yeah I didn't say "nothing" happened but "not much."  Like we are getting Sail Pavillion updates, but the progress right now isn't much bigger than when I decided to read this thread months ago.

Sorry I joined the thread just to complain. I was just attempting to be humorous.  Clearly fell flat.

Ah, OK, well a belated "haha" from me then :)

I also somewhat agree w/ the spirit of the "not much is happening" statement, in the sense that not much *visible* is happening either.

Among the many frustrating things about this ongoing debacle is that right now, it seems like very important stuff is indeed happening behind the scenes - but none of it is visible.

The latest nugget of info came from Cory Briggs AKA the antagonist of CCI, the lawyer who's behind the lawsuits against the convention center expansion and proposing the "convadium" monstrosity: he posted on social media that he believes the next study that the hoteliers are currently putting together is going to recommend a non-contiguous waterfront expansion for the convention center and some sort of arena deal and something to do with the "AEG" organization. There doesn't seem to be much public info on this concept. I haven't been able to determine just where this site would be, how far away from the current convention center it would be, etc.

If the hoteliers back away from contiguous expansion, it could be the final death of the concept. And it'd greatly diminish their standing against the "convadium" concept; if they begin to concede the point in the contiguous v. non-contiguous portion of the debate, it raises the chances of the "convadium" winning the day.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on June 27, 2016, 07:45:55 AM
Everyone except the Chargers wants a contiguous expansion. The question is how to fund it and get past these fringe groups that like to throw up legal roadblocks because of their own special interests. But honestly, the longer this drags on, the less likely it's going to happen.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: frgx on June 27, 2016, 08:21:33 AM
There was an article yesterday about AEG's plan for a new 18000-seat arena to be built at Seaport Village. Included would be 3 new hotels that would add a combined 1700 rooms.

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2016/jun/26/seaport-village-could-house-new-san-diego-arena/
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on June 27, 2016, 09:09:44 AM
3 new hotels at Seaport village would be HUGE!!!!
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: jimy on June 27, 2016, 10:26:38 AM
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There was an article yesterday about AEG's plan for a new 18000-seat arena to be built at Seaport Village. Included would be 3 new hotels that would add a combined 1700 rooms.

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2016/jun/26/seaport-village-could-house-new-san-diego-arena/

Can you imagine an 18,000-seat arena instead of Hall "H", then maybe everyone that wants to get in could get in and without having to line-up for days in advance.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on June 27, 2016, 10:31:10 AM
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Can you imagine an 18,000-seat arena instead of Hall "H", then maybe everyone that wants to get in could get in and without having to line-up for days in advance.

And an 'arena' would likely have stadium seating, like the arena at Anaheim/WonderCon. The sight lines in there are amazing!
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Angel_ on June 27, 2016, 11:14:23 AM
This would be amazing. MAKE IT SO.  That would also free up all of Hall H for exhibit hall space.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: citizenmilton on June 27, 2016, 12:04:54 PM
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There was an article yesterday about AEG's plan for a new 18000-seat arena to be built at Seaport Village. Included would be 3 new hotels that would add a combined 1700 rooms.

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2016/jun/26/seaport-village-could-house-new-san-diego-arena/

Wow, what an interesting development. This news, along with Cory Briggs' recent comments predicting the hoteliers will endorse this approach, make it look like this is a viable scenario that could be beneficial for Comic-Con.

Although I still prefer a contiguous expansion, this AEG/Seaport plan has a number of benefits that make it a much more desirable option for CCI as opposed to the Convadium concept:

-Even though it's discontinuous, the commute between ConventionCtr/SeaportVillage will be much easier than a commuter between ConventionCtr/Convadium, since you don't have to cross Harbor Drive and its limited choke-points across a major street & train track.

-The arena could replace Hall H, even better than the contiguous expansion plan's bigger ballroom & certainly better than the Convadium

-MORE DOWNTOWN HOTEL SPACE!! This, in and of itself, would be a huge benefit.

-More downtown hotels = more ballrooms. This could alleviate a lot of the problems the various expansion plans are attempting to solve.

-More reasons to be on the waterfront during the con - more retail there, more of a party atmosphere with gorgeous views.

 -And I'm not sure on this last one, but, as far as I can tell, the Chargers can still build their stupid f****ng Convadium if they want to, without it causing too much of a problem for this project. Doesn't seem like the two are mutually exclusive. Maybe they're competing for similar sources of funding or maybe not. I can't tell from this initial report.

Optimistic for the first time in a while on this story!
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on June 27, 2016, 01:00:36 PM
I'm with Citizen Milton. This is the first thing that has me excited in a long time. I basically gave up on the contiguous expansion after the funding was declared 'illegal'. But this seems like an excellent alternative.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on June 29, 2016, 12:47:40 PM
Interesting article about the new MMM expansion, and how ti relates to SDCC.

http://www.comicsbeat.com/downtown-san-diegos-expansion-of-the-marriot-marquis-impact-on-comic-con-international-and-more/ (http://www.comicsbeat.com/downtown-san-diegos-expansion-of-the-marriot-marquis-impact-on-comic-con-international-and-more/)
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: kohyuta on June 29, 2016, 01:00:51 PM
I find the mention of badge processing being offsite interesting. I'm hoping CCI uses the space freed up by the move well, as that's a LOT of space recovered.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: jimy on June 29, 2016, 01:10:07 PM
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I find the mention of badge processing being offsite interesting. I'm hoping CCI uses the space freed up by the move well, as that's a LOT of space recovered.


Since it sounds like CCI will still be using some of that area in order to distribute bags, lanyards, and books, it'll be interesting to see just how much space if really freed up...
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Mario Wario on July 01, 2016, 04:31:32 PM
http://www.forbes.com/sites/robsalkowitz/2016/07/01/the-business-of-comic-con-sdccs-david-glanzer-on-branding-and-expanding/#59a279382f7a (http://www.forbes.com/sites/robsalkowitz/2016/07/01/the-business-of-comic-con-sdccs-david-glanzer-on-branding-and-expanding/#59a279382f7a)

A nice read about certain things that were asked, such as expanding if possible/needed. Nothing new really here, but still interesting.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on July 09, 2016, 07:21:39 PM
Chargers 'convadium' plan heading to ballot

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2016/jul/09/chargers-stadium-ballot-initiative-signatures/

Quote

The Chargers secured enough valid signatures for the team’s proposal to raise local hotel taxes for a downtown “convadium” to appear on the November ballot, San Diego City Clerk Liz Maland said Saturday afternoon. If approved, the proposal could keep the team from moving to the Los Angeles area, where they’ve been approved by NFL ownership to join the Rams in a new stadium being built in Inglewood.

Chargers chairman Dean Spanos said he was pleased and thankful. "The entire Chargers organization is grateful to all of those who helped qualify our initiative for the November 2016 ballot," he said. "We gathered more than 110,000 signatures in less than six weeks, an extraordinary result that demonstrates the high level of community interest in a new multi-use stadium and convention center facility downtown. I would again like to thank all of those who signed the petition along with the fan groups, labor organizations, and businesses large and small that helped with our effort."

The initiative would raise the city’s tax on hotel stays from 12.5 percent to 16.5 percent, and use the money to finance a $1.8 billion stadium and convention center in downtown’s East Village, next to Petco Park. The Chargers would contribute $650 million for the stadium portion of the project, using $300 million from the NFL and $350 million from the team, licensing payments, sales of “stadium-builder” ticket options to fans, and other private sources.

Many prominent local Republicans have come out against the proposal, and polls this spring showed low approval ratings. The state Supreme Court’s decision last month to review a lower court ruling prompted City Attorney Jan Goldsmith to say the initiative would need approval from two-thirds of voters. And the Chargers have said that’s the threshold they expect to face. But this week, Goldsmith said there was some chance that approval by somewhere between a simple majority and two-thirds would leave the fate of the initiative in limbo until a Supreme Court decision whether to uphold or overturn the lower court ruling.

The Chargers submitted 110,380 signatures on June 10, many more than the 66,447 needed. Since then, the county Registrar of Voters has been vetting a random 3 percent sample of the submitted signatures and determined that 2,434 of 3,312 were valid, a rate that would yield 78,964 valid signatures.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on July 14, 2016, 02:56:52 PM
Opposition group claims Chargers stadium plan will drive away Comic-Con

http://www.10news.com/news/opposition-group-claims-chargers-stadium-plan-will-drive-away-comic-con

Quote
A group of civic leaders opposed to the Chargers proposal to build a downtown stadium and convention center annex announced Thursday that they're lobbying the San Diego Regional Chamber of Commerce to reject the team's plans. Councilman Chris Cate, former San Diego County Taxpayers Association Executive Director Lani Lutar, architect Rob Quigley and Republican campaign finance expert April Boling argued that the hotel room tax increase in the Chargers plan would be one of the largest tax hikes in the city's history.

Calling themselves the No Downtown Stadium­ Jobs and Streets First! committee, they also contend the plan would result in the loss of Comic-­Con International, the massive San Diego based celebration of the popular arts that's been lured by other cities for years, and is a lower priority than infrastructure. They also said there are better plans for developing the East Village area where the Chargers contemplate locating their stadium. Last Saturday, the City Clerk's Office announced that an initiative petition circulated by the team gained enough valid signatures to qualify for the November ballot. However, the committee members pointed to a poll taken in April that shows tepid support for the stadium plan. "The Chargers tax measure is not going to pass in November," they wrote in a letter to chamber board members. "While important, public opinion is not the only point to consider when making your decision," they said. "The Chargers stadium plan threatens our tourism economy and the small businesses that rely on a thriving tourism economy." A second group, called Barrios Against Stadiums, announced it would protest Friday outside a luncheon where team officials are scheduled to discuss their plans. "A stadium, and ensuing entertainment district, so close to Barrio Logan will have a devastating effect on the renting residents and vibrant arts scene that has flourished here in the last two years," said Brent Beltran, a resident of the neighborhood and leader of the group. "Gentrification is already pushing small businesses and residents out. A stadium one block away will only worsen the situation." According to Beltran, who said BASTA plans a silent protest with members holding signs and banners, a stadium close­by will attract more cars, which will worsen the already difficult parking situation in the neighborhood and add to pollution.

The Chargers declined to comment on the formation of the groups. Team officials envision a 61,500­ seat stadium that would be paired with new meeting space, a few blocks from the San Diego Convention Center. The project would be funded by raising the hotel room tax from 10.5 percent, plus a 2 percent fee used for tourism promotion, to 16.5 percent. The Chargers would chip­in $350 million and use a $300 million loan from the National Football League. Because of a legal skirmish elsewhere in California, it's likely but not certain that the stadium initiative will require two­ thirds support when voters go to the polls this fall.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: SteveD on July 14, 2016, 03:06:51 PM
It's fascinating how every argument includes Comic-Con in one way or another.

If we don't build the stadium, we'll lose Comic-Con.
If we do build the stadium, we'll lose Comic-Con.

They really need to stop thinking about Comic-Con and try to determine whether or not building a football stadium downtown is the best use of the location and funds.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Bert Su on July 15, 2016, 03:12:58 AM
I guess that's not the kind of thing to expect on a forum about SDCC
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: CptMyCpt24 on July 15, 2016, 09:13:29 AM
I'm sure there will be a presence on the streets of the Gaslamp with people asking about what attendees think. 
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: BenEatsRice on July 28, 2016, 07:53:04 PM
http://sdg.247sports.com/Bolt/San-Diego-chamber-board-votes-in-favor-of-new-Chargers-stadium-46471169

The San Diego Regional Chamber of Commerce board announced on Thursday that it has voted to support the Chargers' initiative to build a new sports complex and convention facility downtown.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on July 28, 2016, 07:53:13 PM
From

Chamber endorses Chargers downtown stadium

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2016/jul/28/chamber-stadium-endorse/

Quote

In a message to last week’s Comic-Con attendees, Comic-Con President John Rogers reiterated opposition to the Chargers’ noncontiguous expansion plan. Chargers consultant Fred Maas said after the press conference that he intends to press the team’s case as soon as possible with Comic-Con leadership. “They have been a very important part of the fabric of this community,” Maas said. “We don’t want to do anything that would stifle or not encourage the growth and stability of Comic-Con. We hope that when we fully get to make our case, they’ll understand the enormous benefits that accrue to a facility like ours and how it can augment their existing campus environment.”

Tourism Authority Chairman Ted Molter also cited Comic-Con’s opposition and expressed disappointment in the chamber’s action. “This could threaten San Diego’s ability to keep our major event customers here in the future,” Molter said in a statement. “The Tourism Authority remains committed to a contiguous expansion of the existing center.” He also noted that the higher hotel tax would make it one of the highest in the nation and “would only add to the challenges of attracting conventions and visitors in this highly competitive marketplace.”
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Mario Wario on July 29, 2016, 08:36:20 AM
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From

Chamber endorses Chargers downtown stadium

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2016/jul/28/chamber-stadium-endorse/
Getting interesting...
(https://media0.giphy.com/media/gy4tcJdo7ZKgw/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: kohyuta on July 29, 2016, 08:56:41 AM
Wouldn't it be a slap in the face if this goes through, and CCI doesn't use the new facility?


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Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: dcuodust on July 29, 2016, 02:00:17 PM
So based on the congestion in front of the convention centre/harbor drive/gaslamp wouldn't it be worse if you had people going back and forth between the two sites? And based on the weather this year, that walk would not be pleasant.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on July 30, 2016, 12:55:37 PM
Talks to extend Comic Con's stay in San Diego have begun.

http://www.10news.com/news/talks-to-keep-comic-con-in-san-diego-beyond-2018-to-being-in-earnest-072516 (http://www.10news.com/news/talks-to-keep-comic-con-in-san-diego-beyond-2018-to-being-in-earnest-072516)

If you watch the video, they make it clear that CCI is not in support of a Charger's stadium. Even more interesting, the anchorwoman at the very end says that David Glanzer confirmed that official attendees were in excess of 135,000 people. Nice to see them actually throw out a number!
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: pieistasty on July 31, 2016, 11:22:41 AM
I don't know why San Diego is letting the Chargers hold them hostage. I for one, would be the first to open the door and show them out.

It would seem an expanded convention center would bring in more revenue to the city than the Chargers do. Most Charger fans are local. The convention center brings in out of town attendees. They spend more money than locals would. There are a lot of conventions that come to San Diego. An expanded convention center would bring that much more.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on July 31, 2016, 11:24:43 AM
I'm not a San Diego resident, so my perspective may be off, but from what I have seen, it seems like the Chargers are making the most noise and bringing the most political clout, which is why they are getting all of this attention.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Iris on July 31, 2016, 12:02:19 PM
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I'm not a San Diego resident, so my perspective may be off, but from what I have seen, it seems like the Chargers are making the most noise and bringing the most political clout, which is why they are getting all of this attention.


As an SD resident, this honestly seems to be what's going on. You definitely have a lot of people who don't care that the Chargers staying (and having to have taxes on hotels etc. to help pay for the stadium) might not be in the best interest of the city/residents even after having it laid out for them why that might be the case. My coworker said he doesn't really care if it's not economically smart to help pay for the stadium, he just wants them to stay period and will vote for whatever to make that happen. This is from a city, too, that isn't like others where it's diehard about the football team.

Plus the Chargers are throwing such a fit over things, their perspective gets a lot of attention.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: pieistasty on July 31, 2016, 12:57:35 PM
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As an SD resident, this honestly seems to be what's going on. You definitely have a lot of people who don't care that the Chargers staying (and having to have taxes on hotels etc. to help pay for the stadium) might not be in the best interest of the city/residents even after having it laid out for them why that might be the case. My coworker said he doesn't really care if it's not economically smart to help pay for the stadium, he just wants them to stay period and will vote for whatever to make that happen. This is from a city, too, that isn't like others where it's diehard about the football team.

Plus the Chargers are throwing such a fit over things, their perspective gets a lot of attention.

I never understood why the taxpayers are expected to subsidize private sports teams that make plenty of profit. But it's part of US culture that you aren't a first tier city unless you have professional sports teams. So a lot of it isn't about economic sense, it's about pride. Personally, I rather see them go then stay. Especially after they pulled that move to LA ultimatum unless they get their way. I would have loved it if the mayor had said "OK. Bye." but instead he folded.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Iris on July 31, 2016, 01:10:10 PM
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I never understood why the taxpayers are expected to subsidize private sports teams that make plenty of profit. But it's part of US culture that you aren't a first tier city unless you have professional sports teams. So a lot of it isn't about economic sense, it's about pride. Personally, I rather see them go then stay. Especially after they pulled that move to LA ultimatum unless they get their way. I would have loved it if the mayor had said "OK. Bye." but instead he folded.

Yeah, I find it exceedingly frustrating but I'm not into sports much at all. However, what it is quite annoying, to me, is that I (and a lot of people) feel we as a city aren't even particularly invested in/die-hard about our sports teams? My new co-worker was talking about how Seattle, how invested so many of the people and and businesses there are with the Seahawks and how after living in SD for 3-4 years she just hasn't felt like it's even remotely similar to that level. Apparently tons of offices would have a set day per week you'd wear the team's colors during football season (and for her it was the only day their office allowed things to be a tiny bit lax on the dress code.) So that's why it's increasingly annoying that so many people are folding to the team's ideas at this point, because that sort of community isn't present to that extent.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on August 06, 2016, 10:15:36 AM
Stadium, convention initiatives need two-thirds vote

City attorney weighs in on hotel tax ballot measures

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2016/aug/05/stadium-convention-initiatives-need-two-thirds/

Quote
Both the Chargers initiative to build a downtown stadium and a second November ballot measure to raise funds for a convention center will require approval of two-thirds of voters as opposed to a simple majority, San Diego City Attorney Jan Goldsmith said Friday. While acknowledging that the legal question will likely be decided by the state Supreme Court, Goldsmith concluded that based on current law, the two measures need a higher threshold for passage because they’re seeking to raise the hotel tax for a specific funding purpose.

Voters in November will be faced with two citizens initiatives seeking to hike the hotel tax - the Chargers plan, which asks for an increase to 16.5 percent to help finance a joint convention center and stadium, and the Citizens’ Plan, which seeks an increase to 15.5 percent to help pay for tourism marketing and an off-the-waterfront convention facility. The Chargers have previously stated that they have always operated on the assumption that a two-thirds majority is needed, while attorney Cory Briggs, author of the Citizens’ Plan, has argued that his measure would raise taxes for the city’s general fund, and therefore require only a simple majority.

“We acknowledge the work of the city attorney and are proceeding, as we have since the outset, on the assumption this is a two-thirds (majority) measure,” said Chargers adviser Fred Maas. “Obviously, we will pay attention to the Supreme Court, now and after the election, but nothing has changed for the Chargers.” Briggs late Friday reiterated his position that the Citizens’ Plan “enacts a general tax and requires only a simple-majority vote." The conventional legal thinking on such taxes was upended this year when an appellate court ruled that tax hikes need only garner a simple majority if they are placed on the ballot by way of a citizens’ initiative, while those placed by government agencies still require two-thirds approval. The decision involved a citizens’ initiative to tax marijuana dispensaries in the city of Upland.

Since then, the state Supreme Court has decided to review the case. “As the Cannabis Coalition decision is no longer binding legal authority, absent direction from the Supreme Court, the current state of the law is what existed the day before the Cannabis Coalition decision was issued by the Court of Appeal: A special tax increase requires approval by two-thirds of the voters casting votes on the measure,” Goldsmith wrote in a memo Friday to City Clerk Elizabeth Maland. He said he offered the legal advice because Maland will eventually need to provide the county registrar of voters with the percentage vote required for passage as part of the voter materials distributed to the electorate.

Goldsmith last month formally asked the California high court to hasten its deliberation and, barring no decision before November, requested that the justices take jurisdiction over the election if one or both of the measures gets approval from between a simple majority and two-thirds of voters. The question of simple majority vs. two-thirds has long loomed over the coming election, because many believe reaching the higher threshold is extremely difficult for the Chargers, especially given significant opposition that has surfaced.

The Citizens’ Plan, too, faces a tough challenge reaching a two-thirds majority approval in light of past failed efforts to win passage of tax hikes. San Diego voters have rejected hotel-tax increases twice since 1990, including one promoted as funding public safety. In his memo, Goldsmith explains that under the California Constitution and the city charter, revenues raised by a tax increase for a specific purpose, such as a stadium, constitutes a special tax and as such requires a super majority approval. As it relates to the Citizens’ Plan, Goldsmith’s Friday legal opinion essentially reiterates what he concluded in an April memo that raised a number of legal questions about the initiative.

While the Briggs measure characterizes the proposed hotel tax increase as a “general tax” to be deposited in the general fund, the initiative contains other provisions that would in fact divert those funds to hotel operators before being placed in the city treasury, Goldsmith said. “Despite the initiative’s stated requirement for depositing the new revenue in the general fund, it permits diversion of the funds before they reach the City, making them unavailable for more general use,” states the memo. “In doing so, the initiative authorizes an expenditure of taxpayer money for a specific purpose, and is a special tax.”
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on August 11, 2016, 04:54:54 PM
Where's a Quick Guide when you really need one?  ;)

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2016/aug/10/chargers-stadium-ballot-will-be-printed-in-full/

Massive ballot headed to San Diego voters Two citizens initiatives spanning hundreds of pages will be mailed to the entire city electorate

Quote
This fall as San Diego voters prepare for the November election, their mailboxes will be stuffed with a sample ballot so large that it will take two volumes to print. In an unprecedented move, the city will need to use multiple pamphlets to fit the entirety of two citizens initiatives that would raise hotel taxes to potentially fund a convention center and a downtown Chargers stadium. The two measures combined span 196 pages and are too lengthy for a single booklet as usual. Ahead of the November 8 election, voters will receive both volumes in two separate mailings. The first pamphlet, like in prior elections, will include ballot measures recently approved by the City Council, as well as the ballot title, an impartial summary and fiscal analysis, and arguments for and against each of the two citizen initiatives.

Then, in a second pamphlet, voters will again receive the ballot title, summary, analysis and arguments about the stadium, as well as the full text of both of the initiatives. The council had considered using just the first pamphlet to save printing and mailing costs, and putting the full text of the two citizen initiatives online and available by mail only by request, but members voted against that proposal 4-2. Council members Lorie Zapf, Scott Sherman, David Alvarez and Marti Emerald voted against the abbreviated sample ballot, while Sherri Lightner and Todd Gloria favored it. Council members Myrtle Cole, Mark Kersey and Chris Cate were not present. “Making sure the voters have all the information that they need in the democratic process really doesn’t have a price,” Alvarez said.

Not printing the two initiatives in their entirety would save the city an estimated $800,000 to $1 million, City Clerk Liz Maland said. However, the cost will be shared with state and county governments and other organizations, as well as postage. “This is real money,” Gloria said. “It’s 2016. It’s perfectly reasonable to put this online.” One initiative from the Chargers proposes a convention center annex and a football stadium downtown funded in part by increasing hotel taxes from 12.5 percent to 16.5 percent. This measure totals 119 pages when printed on standard office paper. The other, the 77-page Citizens’ Plan from attorney Cory Briggs, could ease approval of a downtown football stadium but prohibits the use of public money for the venue’s construction. It raises the hotel tax to 15.5 percent and funds would go to various city services and provide incentives for the tourism industry to fund a convention center annex. Both measures require approval from two-thirds of voters to pass, City Attorney Jan Goldsmith said in a recent opinion. Briggs insists only a simple majority is necessary for the Citizens’ Plan.

These are complex pieces of legislation and many voters will want to evaluate the specific details, and printing the full text of the measures would allow them to do so, Goldsmith said. If the council decided to print and mail just the summaries, the city would still be obligated to make full copies of the proposals available so that interested voters can do their homework, he said. There was consideration of placing copies in city libraries. Printing the full text of the two items will be costly, but there are potential pitfalls if voters are ill-informed and make a bad decision on Election Day, Emerald said. A lack of information, she said, could cost the city “a tremendous amount of money.” But digital copies of the legislation have an advantage over hard copies, Lightner said. Documents have clearer typefaces on a computer, they’re searchable, while paper has blurry printing and notes bleed through the page. The defeated resolution didn’t specify who would write the summary, but in an April 4 memo, Goldsmith cited state legislation that says that his own office should conduct an “impartial analysis” no longer than 500 words. Goldsmith has previously criticized the Citizens’ Initiative. In a 25-page memo he laid out six problems he saw with the measure including an improper control of tax money by hotels in violation of the city charter, trumping the Port District’s authority, a violation of the single-subject rule, and a conflict with Supreme Court decisions, to name a few. Briggs disputed Goldsmith’s opinion.

The two initiatives are in addition to 10 other city ballot questions, two countywide questions, and 17 state propositions. In San Diego there are also races for city attorney and council districts 1 and 9. While a two-volume sample ballot is unprecedented in San Diego, there may be others elsewhere in the county. Encinitas will use a supplemental pamphlet that stretches well beyond 200 pages, and the county and San Diego Association of Governments is considering a supplemental pamphlet as well, Maland said.

8/12 edit: YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.kpbs.org/news/2016/aug/11/san-diego-voters-dont-have-receive-long-ballot-pam/
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on August 20, 2016, 07:52:02 PM
To your corners...

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2016/aug/20/chargers-stadium-money-fred-maas-ballot-measure-c/

Focus: Chargers Dispute Risks of Stadium Measure  Team calls money, tourism concerns misleading, overblown
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on August 26, 2016, 08:13:34 AM
A good summary of op-ed pieces in the San Diego Tribune (regarding a stadium).

http://www.comicsbeat.com/kibbles-n-bits-82516-we-dont-need-no-stinkin-stadium/ (http://www.comicsbeat.com/kibbles-n-bits-82516-we-dont-need-no-stinkin-stadium/)

The San Diego Union Tribune runs a pair of op-eds on the hot topic for fall: voting to build a new downtown stadium for the football Chargers. Anti-stadium forces make a bold claim: How a Chargers stadium jeopardizes San Diego Comic-Con. This is based on CCI’s stated opposition to the lan to build a football stadium with, oh, a bonus convention center thrown in. Comic-Con wants a contiguous expansion, not another facility down the road a piece. This op-ed doesn’t really show how the new stadium would hurt Comic-Con, but they do state why the big show important to the local economy, and says higher hotel room taxes could drive away other events:

The hotel tax revenue Comic-Con generates pays for street repairs, police officers and other services in every San Diego neighborhood.

That’s what the hotel tax does. It’s the third largest source of revenue for the city. It pays to repair streets, hire 911 dispatchers, fund after-school programs, and on and on. We have a responsibility to protect this valuable funding source.

We should not do anything that jeopardizes this revenue stream and that includes raising it to pay for the lion’s share of a $1.8 billion stadium project. Dean Spanos’ plan would cut San Diego’s tourism marketing budget in half while increasing our hotel tax by more than 50 percent to 16.5 percent, giving San Diego one of the highest hotel taxes in the country. Conventions operate on a budget and some would simply relocate to cities that don’t break their budgets. Tourism marketing - our investment in attracting conventions and tourists - should not be sacrificed to pay for a stadium that brings the city little to no economic benefit.


The other side includes Chargers owner Dean Spanos who says all will be well:

The Chargers and the NFL will contribute $650 million in private investment to complete this new facility - one of the largest contributions ever made by the NFL and a team in a market like ours. And we have included $350 million of hotel room tax for integrating the convention center into the stadium, which not coincidentally, is the same amount the city and county were proposing in general fund dollars pledged to the NFL last year.

The second feature of the measure is the vision for a new governing structure - or Joint Powers Authority - to oversee the design, construction, operation and maintenance of the facility, along with the creation of a dedicated funding mechanism to collect taxes from visitors to pay the bonds and other project costs.


I must confess, even as a veteran Comic-Con analyst, all this hotel room tax talk made my eyes glaze over. For the anti-Stadium forces, there’s a petition and information site: No Downtown Stadium — Jobs and Streets First!

The matter is up for a public vote in November, and I don’t have much of a feel for how it will go, but I’m sure there will be a lot of talk over the next few months.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: DaveG on August 26, 2016, 01:21:17 PM
At least one source doesn't think the proposal is doing so well.

http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/chargers-stadium-proposal-reportedly-has-laughable-low-support-in-poll-082516

Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on August 26, 2016, 01:25:08 PM
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At least one source doesn't think the proposal is doing so well.

http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/chargers-stadium-proposal-reportedly-has-laughable-low-support-in-poll-082516

Let's hope that's true!
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: alyssa on August 26, 2016, 07:15:28 PM
http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2016/aug/25/utbg-stadium-chargers-opposition/

sorry for the one link post- i'm beat & this is too good to get lost

Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on August 29, 2016, 07:38:01 AM
Loaded with interesting numbers-crunching tidbit$ (net assets from tax filings, salary information, etc.)

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2016/aug/29/comic-con-buildings/

Comic-Con buys 3 buildings in Barrio Logan Purchases total $6.3 million for an unspecified 'potential future business operation'

Quote
San Diego Comic Convention, the cash-rich nonprofit that presents the pop culture extravaganza Comic-Con International every summer, bought three buildings in Barrio Logan for $6.3 million last year. The acquisition was made in the name of a limited liability company the charity said it owns. “It is part of a potential future business operation that is not appropriate for disclosure at this time,” Comic-Con said in a statement. “Also, there are tenants currently occupying the building and we prefer they not be bothered.” The multimillion-dollar transaction was referenced in the tax-exempt organization’s most recent audit, which is required to be made public under California law.

Public records show a company called Barriohaus LLC bought two office buildings and a warehouse at and near the intersection of National Avenue and South 16th Street on April 1, 2015, for $6.3 million. The charity said Barriohaus LLC is wholly owned by San Diego Comic Convention, although there is no mention of the limited liability company on its federal tax filings or in the independent audits. “The acquisition of the property was approved by the board,” the Comic-Con statement said. “The board also approved formation of Barriohaus LLC to own the property.” Federal regulators require tax-exempt organizations to disclose when they have interests in related businesses, either with other nonprofits such as a foundation or with for-profit companies. The U.S. Internal Revenue Service definition of a related organization includes “organizations that stand in a parent/subsidiary relationship.” The agency specifically asks charities if they have such relationships. “Was the organization related to any tax-exempt or taxable entity?” I.R.S. Form 990 asks. “If 'Yes,' complete Schedule R, Part II, III, or IV, and Part V, line 1.”The most recent San Diego Comic Convention filing, which covers the year ending Aug. 31, 2015, answered no to that question and did not complete or attach Schedule R to its 36-page tax return. Comic-Con officials said they responded to the question appropriately. “For tax purposes a single member limited liability company owned by the filer is not considered a related entity,” the charity statement said.

The nonprofit declined to provide any documentation showing that it owns Barriohaus LLC. Instead, a statement noted that the tax return and audit both refer to the purchase. The references in those documents make no mention of Barriohaus LLC. According to the California Secretary of State’s Office, Barriohaus was established on March 20, 2015, 12 days before it took title to the Barrio Logan buildings. State records list the business address for Barriohaus as 225 Broadway, Suite 1800, the same downtown office occupied by Comic-Con. The registered agent is San Diego Comic Convention president John Rogers. The only company member listed on public records available from the Secretary of State’s Office is Rory O’Neill, whom the charity identified as an employee of its law firm. “Rory O’Neill was the organizer of Barriohaus LLC,” the Comic-Con statement said. “She is a corporate paralegal at Pillsbury Winthrop Shaw Pittman LLP, which is outside legal counsel to SDCC.”

The office and warehouse space purchased by Barriohaus LLC includes just over 32,000 square feet, much of it refurbished in recent years by the late architect Graham Downes. Both office buildings, located in the 900 block of South 16th Street and the 1600 block of National Avenue, are about 15,000 square feet. The warehouse at 1622 National Avenue is 3,000 square feet. The properties currently house multiple tenants, including the Sushi On a Roll catering company and the Invisible Children charity.

With fewer than 50 employees, it is not clear what San Diego Comic Convention would do with tens of thousands of square feet of office space. The charity does rely on more than 3,000 volunteers to present the annual comic-book and entertainment showcase. The charity’s investment in Barrio Logan may be significant beyond the money it spent. Comic-Con International attracts more than 130,000 visitors to San Diego every year, and pumps tens of millions of dollars into the local economy. In recent years, charity officials have cited the economic impact and won concessions out of city officials in exchange for a commitment to remain at the harborside convention center. With millions of dollars in real estate holdings on the edge of downtown San Diego, Comic-Con may be less likely to relocate to other interested convention cities, such as Anaheim or Los Angeles. Under its current agreement, Comic-Con will remain in San Diego through 2018.

U-T Watchdog reported last month that the event generates millions of dollars in profits each year, and charity officials reported net assets of almost $20 million in 2014. The latest tax filing, provided by the organization after the conclusion of last month’s festival, shows the nonprofit held just under $25 million in net assets at the end of last August. Almost $12 million of that was held in a non-interest-bearing account. The latest tax filing also shows increases in pay for the nonprofit’s executives. Rogers, the charity president, saw his pay increase from $64,000 in 2014 to $208,000 last year. Executive Director Dona Fae Desmond’s salary increased from $132,000 to more than $184,000 over the same period. Total payments to board members rose from $156,000 in 2014 to just over $300,000 last year, according to the public audits. San Diego Comic Convention officials announced in June that they were in discussions with the San Diego Hall of Champions about opening a Comic-Con museum inside the historic Federal Building in Balboa Park.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Mel on August 29, 2016, 08:12:39 AM
That is very interesting. Maybe they are going to build their own offices and museum? I can't even imagine really. It's certainly not big enough to host SDCC and it's a very sketchy location. It is very near where the Chargers want to build a stadium though. I wonder if they are just buying it up to be a thorn in the side of that project?
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on August 29, 2016, 08:47:59 AM
I agree, this is interesting. I agree with Mel that it might be for their own museum, but it could also be part of their Comic Con HQ venture.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: kohyuta on August 29, 2016, 12:45:31 PM
*imagines 130k people in 32k square feet... and shudders*


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Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: citizenmilton on August 30, 2016, 11:51:53 AM
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At least one source doesn't think the proposal is doing so well.

http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/chargers-stadium-proposal-reportedly-has-laughable-low-support-in-poll-082516

I hope this figure is accurate and holds through to November: "52 percent strongly or somewhat oppose the stadium"

Although a lot of the press focus is on measure C, the Chargers' official plan, which has no chance of hitting the 2/3rds threshold for voter approval, the more critical fight is on measure D, the so-called "Citizens Plan" which is identified on the ballot as the "Tax and Facilities Initiative" - the sketchy lawyer behind that proposal claims it only requires a 50%+1 threshold, so that's going to be a tight race. The Chargers will likely have a well-funded PR campaign pushing their proposals, so it's still a long way to go.

In the above article it cites a large number of undecideds, assuming that they split the undecideds maybe 50/50, then the opposition to the stadium is comfortably in 55%-60%+ range, which would make me breathe a bit easier.

But, it's still a long way to go.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Bert Su on September 09, 2016, 04:15:34 PM
I wish the city would put SDCC expansion over the footbal stadium. SDCC is like the superbowl of geek gatherings, there are few places which have a convention like SDCC and no other city has the copyright for Comic Con.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Iris on September 09, 2016, 08:59:54 PM
I meant to post this last week, but work has been insane.

Early last week (maybe Tuesday, August 30, 2016 or Wednesday), I heard a radio spot promoting Measure C in San Diego, sponsored by the Chargers etc. Of course, it mentions how it'll help get Superbowls, jobs, and bring in new events to the planned convention center. It's voiced by the President of the SD Chamber of Commerce, I think. I believe there's a TV ad too that's starting to circulate.

Sigh. I could have sworn that very first one i heard actually mentioned SDCC, but I'm not finding it in the transcripts. So maybe it was changed or maybe I misinterpreted the convention center mentioned that first, super sleep deprived morning.

I've heard it a few times, always in the mornings (but that tends to be when I hear the most commercials on the radio. I really only listen because there's a specific station I enjoy.)
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: jimy on September 10, 2016, 08:27:41 AM
Yep, I've heard that a few times on KOGO radio, with former mayor Jerry Sanders, but I think you're right it no longer mentions SDCC... guess that they're trying to sell this plan in spite of the fact that SDCC doesn't support it.

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I meant to post this last week, but work has been insane.

Early last week (maybe Tuesday, August 30, 2016 or Wednesday), I heard a radio spot promoting Measure C in San Diego, sponsored by the Chargers etc. Of course, it mentions how it'll help get Superbowls, jobs, and bring in new events to the planned convention center. It's voiced by the President of the SD Chamber of Commerce, I think. I believe there's a TV ad too that's starting to circulate.

Sigh. I could have sworn that very first one i heard actually mentioned SDCC, but I'm not finding it in the transcripts. So maybe it was changed or maybe I misinterpreted the convention center mentioned that first, super sleep deprived morning.

I've heard it a few times, always in the mornings (but that tends to be when I hear the most commercials on the radio. I really only listen because there's a specific station I enjoy.)
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: citizenmilton on October 03, 2016, 09:03:59 AM
San Diego Mayor Kevin Faulconer endorses Chargers' stadium plan:

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/politics/sd-me-faulconer-stadium-20160930-story.html (http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/politics/sd-me-faulconer-stadium-20160930-story.html)

Quote
Mayor Kevin Faulconer is endorsing the Chargers stadium ballot measure after reaching agreement with the team on a series of new financial safeguards and other concessions.

Support from Faulconer, who was easily re-elected in June and has strong ties to the local business community and other powerful interests, could boost the measure’s chances of success on Nov. 8.

And if the measure fails, the working relationship forged between Faulconer and team officials during months of negotiations on the concessions could help the city and the Chargers quickly begin work on finding another stadium solution.

I'm terribly disappointed in Faulconer. He managed to go most of the year providing push-back against the measure. Now, at the last minute, he jumps on board. Deep into the article, where he's given an opportunity to explain why he switched positions, previously favoring contiguous expansion of the convention center, to now favoring this option, he just doesn't provide a reason.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on October 03, 2016, 09:21:53 AM
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San Diego Mayor Kevin Faulconer endorses Chargers' stadium plan:

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/politics/sd-me-faulconer-stadium-20160930-story.html (http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/politics/sd-me-faulconer-stadium-20160930-story.html)

I'm terribly disappointed in Faulconer. He managed to go most of the year providing push-back against the measure. Now, at the last minute, he jumps on board. Deep into the article, where he's given an opportunity to explain why he switched positions, previously favoring contiguous expansion of the convention center, to now favoring this option, he just doesn't provide a reason.

Very telling indeed.

From the same --

Faulconer has also been a longtime supporter of a contiguous expansion of the waterfront convention center - which the hoteliers want - not the annex that Measure C would build. The mayor said he set those concerns aside. “I’ve always said it’s important to do what’s best for San Diego,” he said.

Implying that what CCI wants - the contiguous expansion - is not best for San Diego and should be set aside opens quite the door.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Iris on October 03, 2016, 10:33:04 AM
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San Diego Mayor Kevin Faulconer endorses Chargers' stadium plan:

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/politics/sd-me-faulconer-stadium-20160930-story.html (http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/politics/sd-me-faulconer-stadium-20160930-story.html)

I'm terribly disappointed in Faulconer. He managed to go most of the year providing push-back against the measure. Now, at the last minute, he jumps on board. Deep into the article, where he's given an opportunity to explain why he switched positions, previously favoring contiguous expansion of the convention center, to now favoring this option, he just doesn't provide a reason.

Ugh fantastic. I'm still hearing the pro-ballot measure playing on the radio, but not as often as I was previously. I haven't seen the ad on TV yet, but I haven't been watching much TV so that's negligible. I imagine they started it off frequently though and are stalling out a bit now until closer to the ballots going out.

Either way, I'll be prodding people I know against it.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: citizenmilton on October 05, 2016, 09:00:13 AM
Pretty devastating article here:

The Waterfront Convention Center Expansion Has Never Been This Hopeless

Quote
The movement to expand San Diego’s Convention Center at its current site on the waterfront has never had a worse season.

Its most prominent backers are falling off, one by one. The city of San Diego no longer even controls the land it would need. (The people who do control it are rapidly advancing a plan to build a hotel on it.)

In court, the plan faces a passionate foe, who not long ago helped kill off a financing plan for the project that took years to put together. Were it to survive all this, it would need the support of two-thirds of voters. Yet two initiatives on the ballot right now would erase that hope.

The mayor is now openly promoting one of them.

http://www.voiceofsandiego.org/topics/land-use/the-waterfront-convention-center-expansion-has-never-been-this-hopeless/ (http://www.voiceofsandiego.org/topics/land-use/the-waterfront-convention-center-expansion-has-never-been-this-hopeless/)

Things look bleak for the convention center expansion, indeed. This has been so frustrating to see the NFL team dictate the terms of how San Diego's convention center is going to exist in the future, without any actual regard for what it does to the convention center's most important tenant. At this point, with Comic-Con so thoroughly mistreated by the city's political class and taken for granted, I'm almost starting to root for the convention to move elsewhere. Compared to the experience of being in San Diego, I'd hate to go to Anaheim or Vegas, but at this point, the city's effectively sabotaging the convention's ability to grow.

Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Mario Wario on October 05, 2016, 09:12:29 AM
I had a feeling it wasn't going to happen, so not shocked. There has been so many things against it, thus every time I saw an article saying it might happen -- making the center bigger -- I knew it was empty air. Each new article kept on pointing out the same old thing that wasn't going to happen. Reason why I kept on saying "I'll believe it when I see it."
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on October 05, 2016, 09:35:26 AM
While it pains me to say this, I'm feeling the same as Mario. (Not that I'm bothered to feel the same way as Mario, but that it pains me to feel disappointed, Mario also happens to do...)

When the hotel tax was declared 'illegal', I knew t was all over for a Convention Center expansion. It was pretty clear that the city/judges were going to let these special interests dictate the whole thing. It's even more bitter that they're now catering to a sports team, as it has the feeling that the 'sports jocks' are beating up on the 'geeks and nerds'. I know, that's not exactly what's happening, but it has echoes of that kind of feeling for me.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: semigeekgirl on October 05, 2016, 10:04:50 AM
I agree, I had very little hope for the contiguous expansion, at least in the current round of proposals.

I only hope that the Chargers' measure loses as well - irregardless of Comic-Con, I think it's a terrible deal for the city.

It makes me sad on a number of levels. Growing up in San Diego, I always retained a sort of vestigial fondness for the Chargers as my hometown team, even though I hate football. But at this point, whenever I hear they're playing, I hope they lose.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on October 05, 2016, 11:25:14 AM
Future CCI press release (blue = mild sarcasm)

"We fought the good fight. In the end, deeper pocket$ won. It's been real... it's been fun... [insert city name - *please* be Anaheim!] here we come!"
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: citizenmilton on October 05, 2016, 11:57:31 AM
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Future CCI press release (blue = mild sarcasm)

"We fought the good fight. In the end, deeper pocket$ won. It's been real... it's been fun... [insert city name - *please* be Anaheim!] here we come!"

Curious... you prefer Anaheim as an alternate? Most of what I've heard about the area around the convention center doesn't sound that appealing, if it's between Anaheim & Vegas I'd probably opt for Vegas (but I've never been, maybe that's a horrifically bad idea)... what do you like about Anaheim as an option?

Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on October 05, 2016, 12:53:27 PM
Anaheim is a great location... for WonderCon. But there's no way it could contain the masses of people and offsites that are prevalent at SDCC.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Mario Wario on October 05, 2016, 02:12:48 PM
New location? I pick Planet Houston!

But to be real, LV has the space to support the Con and hotels, however, pricing won't be friendly to us to get cheap rooms, and it's really hot during the summer. Area also more for adults but I could see LV doing something to make it family friendly during the week. Anaheim is better for families and has better temps (sometimes) but the center and the area is not as big when comparing it to SD. Besides Disneyland, not much to do outside the center. Likewise for eating. It does have a better cosplay meeting area when comparing it to SD.

So overall, hold on to your butts!
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: DaveG on October 06, 2016, 09:12:31 AM
Before you start looking at hotel availability in another city, hasn't CCI stated that there ability to stay in San Diego is tied more to hotel pricing and availability than it is to convention center expansion?  Just because they build a new stadium with available space, that doesn't mean CCI has to agree to use that space.  I'm assuming a new facility will want to charge a premium price to use that space.  And since it would be located several blocks away, CCI might decide to just continue leveraging nearby hotel space and tell them what they can do with their new stadium (I would so love for them to snub their noses at the Chargers).
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: citizenmilton on October 06, 2016, 12:00:09 PM
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Just because they build a new stadium with available space, that doesn't mean CCI has to agree to use that space.  I'm assuming a new facility will want to charge a premium price to use that space.  And since it would be located several blocks away, CCI might decide to just continue leveraging nearby hotel space and tell them what they can do with their new stadium (I would so love for them to snub their noses at the Chargers).

I would love to see that happen, too. However, there's a couple of factors that might make that challenging.

David Glanzer of CCI had an extensive interview on this debate with the Voice Of San Diego podcast, and in that discussion he raised an objection to the Chargers stadium idea that I hadn't even considered: he said that they might be forced to rent out that facility during Comic-Con week just to keep out a competing event from siphoning off their crowd. There's nothing illegal about some random organization just deciding to run a nerd-themed convention at the same time as Comic-Con, as an alternative for people who couldn't get in to the main attraction. A competing convention in the same downtown would open up a whole host of challenges. They might decide it's easier to just rent the other facility than it is to deal with all of the problems caused by not renting it.

Also, this is pure speculation here, but, since Comic-Con is getting such a crappy deal in all of this, they might use that as a negotiating tactic and get the city to agree to give Comic-Con a special discount for the secondary facility if they promise to stay in the city for X number of years.

One of the aspects of CCI that makes them such a great organization is that they're staffed by great human beings with a genuine care for being good citizens. But they're so concerned with being a proper nonprofit organization and being good neighbors to the city of San Diego, they're bringing a butter knife to a gun fight, and the Chargers have brought automatic assault rifles to bear. CCI won't want to seem ungrateful to citizens who will be expending 1.8 billion dollar for a new facility, even though most of them don't realize that Comic-Con doesn't even want it in the first place. Most if not all of the proponents of the Chargers plan are claiming that one of the primary reasons to support it is to help save Comic-Con for San Diego. They're completely misrepresenting the situation. And CCI will find itself in a situation where their host city *thinks* they've made a huge sacrifice and given a huge gift to them, and CCI as an organization seems to be the kind of person, when given a doodoo sandwich as a gift, instead of politely refusing it, will grin and take a bite.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: hikanteki on October 06, 2016, 09:37:10 PM


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One of the aspects of CCI that makes them such a great organization is that they're staffed by great human beings with a genuine care for being good citizens. But they're so concerned with being a proper nonprofit organization and being good neighbors to the city of San Diego, they're bringing a butter knife to a gun fight, and the Chargers have brought automatic assault rifles to bear. CCI won't want to seem ungrateful to citizens who will be expending 1.8 billion dollar for a new facility, even though most of them don't realize that Comic-Con doesn't even want it in the first place. Most if not all of the proponents of the Chargers plan are claiming that one of the primary reasons to support it is to help save Comic-Con for San Diego. They're completely misrepresenting the situation. And CCI will find itself in a situation where their host city *thinks* they've made a huge sacrifice and given a huge gift to them, and CCI as an organization seems to be the kind of person, when given a doodoo sandwich as a gift, instead of politely refusing it, will grin and take a bite.

Otherwise known as "passive aggressive."
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on October 17, 2016, 10:29:22 AM
http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/New-Digital-Advertising-System-at-San-Diego-Convention-Center--397311771.html

New Digital Advertising System at San Diego Convention Center (empha$is mine)

Quote
San Diego Convention Center operators recently installed a new digital advertising system at the downtown waterfront facility, using high-resolution video projection technologies. A statement from San Diego Convention Center Corp. said Las Vegas-based Smart City Networks, which provides technologies to the convention center industry, will manage the local program as part of a recently extended partnership. Cost information was not immediately available. Convention center officials said the program will offer “immersive branding opportunities” through large-format projection displays above key entrances to the center’s exhibit halls.

Meeting planners will be able to engage attendees through comprehensive branding and content with video messaging. “Our customers have the opportunity to customize what they want to say, to whom and where through a visual tool never offered in our facility before,” said Clifford “Rip” Rippetoe, president and CEO of the San Diego Convention Center Corp. Officials said Smart City will provide additional services including managing revenue programs, advertising sales support and event sponsorships related to the new system. Smart City will also provide content services including motion graphics, gaming and interactive elements. Show managers will be able to manage system messaging through a web-based system that will be provided by Smart City. Convention center operators have previously said they are seeking ways to boost revenue for ongoing operations and maintenance of the facility. Options that have been discussed include on-site advertising, naming rights and venue sponsorships.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: citizenmilton on October 20, 2016, 09:37:39 PM
The HBO sports show "Any Given Wednesday" did a hilarious video bit on the football stadium:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RS7KL84H1DM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RS7KL84H1DM)

I wish the folks at CCI had this level of an anti-stadium campaign.

Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: alyssa on October 21, 2016, 04:14:56 AM
thx for bringing this to our attention- this is worth promoting. 
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on October 21, 2016, 08:34:26 AM
It's certainly an interesting viewpoint... and it barely mentions SDCC.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: susanml10881 on October 21, 2016, 08:00:40 PM
That's been brought up before. The new 'convention space' is considered competing space by convention bookers and the convention center board. It's not usable space since it is two blocks away. The obviously paid for radio ads by djs are sad. I got a voting booklet from the city on c and d in the mail. There is some new info in there and some of the same.

I don't think Anaheim or LA are better venues. And Vegas has lots of conventions already including Star Trek and their own comic cons? You'll lose a lot of the outside con/ gaslamp experiences too. I don't see C passing, more worried about D which was primarily written by Cory Briggs who stalled the convention center expansion with lawsuits. The city will be forced to go back to the drawing board unfortunately with the Chargers probably.

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I would love to see that happen, too. However, there's a couple of factors that might make that challenging.

David Glanzer of CCI had an extensive interview on this debate with the Voice Of San Diego podcast, and in that discussion he raised an objection to the Chargers stadium idea that I hadn't even considered: he said that they might be forced to rent out that facility during Comic-Con week just to keep out a competing event from siphoning off their crowd. There's nothing illegal about some random organization just deciding to run a nerd-themed convention at the same time as Comic-Con, as an alternative for people who couldn't get in to the main attraction. A competing convention in the same downtown would open up a whole host of challenges. They might decide it's easier to just rent the other facility than it is to deal with all of the problems caused by not renting it.

Also, this is pure speculation here, but, since Comic-Con is getting such a crappy deal in all of this, they might use that as a negotiating tactic and get the city to agree to give Comic-Con a special discount for the secondary facility if they promise to stay in the city for X number of years.

One of the aspects of CCI that makes them such a great organization is that they're staffed by great human beings with a genuine care for being good citizens. But they're so concerned with being a proper nonprofit organization and being good neighbors to the city of San Diego, they're bringing a butter knife to a gun fight, and the Chargers have brought automatic assault rifles to bear. CCI won't want to seem ungrateful to citizens who will be expending 1.8 billion dollar for a new facility, even though most of them don't realize that Comic-Con doesn't even want it in the first place. Most if not all of the proponents of the Chargers plan are claiming that one of the primary reasons to support it is to help save Comic-Con for San Diego. They're completely misrepresenting the situation. And CCI will find itself in a situation where their host city *thinks* they've made a huge sacrifice and given a huge gift to them, and CCI as an organization seems to be the kind of person, when given a doodoo sandwich as a gift, instead of politely refusing it, will grin and take a bite.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on October 22, 2016, 08:08:33 PM
From: http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/opinion/endorsements/sd-chargers-stadium-measure-c-measure-d-20161020-story.html

Vote no on C and D: Get a better Chargers stadium deal, San Diego

Could Faulconer, Spanos and others negotiate a better deal than either measure on the ballot now? Clearly. To earn our support, that deal must be negotiated with all sides, including hoteliers if it involves hotel taxes, with a specific design so San Diegans know what the venue would actually look like and, of course, with a public financial contribution spelled out and capped. This board chooses to be optimistic, and it urges San Diegans to reject C and D and send everyone back to the bargaining table. Voting no doesn’t mean San Diegans don’t support the Chargers. It means San Diegans don’t support these measures.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: citizenmilton on November 04, 2016, 09:26:20 AM

Poll shows stadium measures way behind, losing ground

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/politics/sd-me-final-poll-20161103-story.html (http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/politics/sd-me-final-poll-20161103-story.html)

Quote
A Union-Tribune/10News poll released Thursday shows that Measure C is trailing 55 percent to 45 percent among actual voters and likely voters who are certain how they will vote, down from a 52 percent to 48 percent margin against the measure in mid-October.

The latest poll, which included likely voters and people who have actually cast mail ballots, shows Measure C is far short of the two-thirds support - 66.7 percent - required for approval.

It also shows the measure appears likely to fall short of a simple majority.

It's far too soon to break out the champagne, but, this poll looks well-researched and if the trends hold, it could be good news for Comic-Con fans who dread the 'Convadium' proposal, and perhaps bring the original convention center expansion hopes back from the dead?

Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on November 09, 2016, 06:49:19 AM
From: http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/elections/sd-me-election-chargers-20161106-story.html

Measure C, which included a hotel-tax increase sponsored by the Chargers, was getting support from 41 percent of voters, far short of the 66.7 percent needed for approval. Measure D, which also had a hotel-tax increase and was placed on the ballot by environmentalists and other community leaders, was also getting support from 40 percent, similarly short of a two-thirds majority.

Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: dcuodust on November 10, 2016, 06:54:01 AM
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From: http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/elections/sd-me-election-chargers-20161106-story.html

Measure C, which included a hotel-tax increase sponsored by the Chargers, was getting support from 41 percent of voters, far short of the 66.7 percent needed for approval. Measure D, which also had a hotel-tax increase and was placed on the ballot by environmentalists and other community leaders, was also getting support from 40 percent, similarly short of a two-thirds majority.
Great news that it was soundly defeated!
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on November 10, 2016, 12:05:26 PM
Glad to hear that the Convadium has gone down in flames!
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on November 29, 2016, 08:05:31 AM
$$$$$$$$$$$$

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/tourism/sd-fi-convention-report-20161128-story.html

Quote

San Diego’s convention center hosted fewer meetings and trade shows over the last fiscal year, but spending by the more than 824,000 attendees who filled the center turned out to be more robust compared with the previous year. That’s according to the center’s just released annual report for the year ending June 30, which puts total attendee spending on such things as lodging, dining out and shopping at $658.7 million, up $34 million over the 2014-15 fiscal year. Credit mega citywide conventions like Comic-Con, the National Association of Realtors, and Lightfair International (architectural and commercial lighting professionals) for helping boost the overall numbers.

In all, the center hosted 158 events, compared to 2015’s 172. While the center’s metrics for measuring performance are enviable within the convention industry, the building’s occupancy - 66 percent - is still down from the previous year and far off the peak of 74 percent, reached in 2007. In their defense, the Convention Center Corp. and the San Diego Tourism Authority, which oversees bookings for larger meetings, point out that the bayfront center regularly exceeds the national occupancy average of 50 percent and the higher mid-50’s average for the country’s largest centers. However, one of San Diego’s larger rivals, San Francisco’s Moscone Center, averaged 74 percent during the 2016 fiscal year. “The industry calls occupancy in the 66-70 percent range as fully occupied because of all the move-in and move-out days that really don’t count as occupied,” explained Joe Terzi, CEO of the Tourism Authority. “Our convention center occupancy has consistently been between 66 and 72 percent and still has a significant amount of business that cannot be accommodated due to lack of space.”

Top four events by regional economic impact

Comic-Con International        $140 million

Lightfair International           $70 million

Realtors Conference & Expo   $58 million

ESRI                                $56.9 million

Source: San Diego Convention Center Corp. annual report

On the bright side, the convention center is on pace to reach a near record occupancy level of 73 percent for the 2016-17 fiscal year, said Mark Emch, the center’s chief financial officer. He points out that this last year, the center had a tough act to follow, coming on the heels of a record-breaking year in operating revenues. He said there was some especially lucrative corporate business during the 2014-15 fiscal year that delivered unexpectedly high food and beverage spending. Topping the list was Cisco Live, a huge technology convention that promised $3.6 million in food and beverage spending but instead topped $5 million.

Overall, the center’s food and beverage revenues were down 13 percent compared to 2015. “We had several very large corporate pieces of business that generated unprecedented levels of food and beverage revenue, so there was no anticipation of being able to repeat that incredible mix of corporate business in 2016,” Emch said. Also contributing to that decline were some canceled events and some other expected ones that never materialized, the annual report stated. Overall rental income changed little from the previous year and has in fact remained flat in recent years, due largely to the credits offered by most convention centers as an inducement to land lucrative meetings and events. During the past year, the center offered $5.4 million in rent credits, or 38 percent of what the total rent would normally be. That compares to 27 percent in 2007.

The center still faces tens of millions of dollars in deferred maintenance, but this year the corporation will make significant strides in addressing capital needs. It has $6.6 million in reserves, of which nearly $4 million can be spent on maintenance and repairs. But it also is relying on a state infrastructure bank loan of more than $25 million to help finance more than $21 million in repairs in the next year. Chief among those are replacement of the fabric structure of the rooftop sails pavilion and a retrofit of the elevators and escalators in the west building.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: marcia29 on November 29, 2016, 11:21:35 AM
Very interesting.  It looks like the second place revenue generating event - LightFair International - won't be held in San Diego next year.  SDCC reigns supreme.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: mdla on December 02, 2016, 02:52:34 PM
The Chargers now reportedly will need a "hail mary" to stay in SD.
http://laist.com/2016/12/02/chargers_likely_move_la.php
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on December 15, 2016, 11:04:02 PM
From doing what's best for San Diego here (10/3) http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/politics/sd-me-faulconer-stadium-20160930-story.html

Faulconer has also been a longtime supporter of a contiguous expansion of the waterfront convention center - which the hoteliers want - not the annex that Measure C would build. The mayor said he set those concerns aside. “I’ve always said it’s important to do what’s best for San Diego,” he said.

(Back?) to this (12/15) http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/tourism/sd-fi-expansion-hearing-20161215-story.html

Faulconer, who continues to support a contiguous expansion of the center, has said he will await a ruling on the Briggs case before deciding how to move forward.

What happened since 10/3 to get Faulconer back on the contiguous bandwagon? Oh yeah, both measures failed, almost forgot...
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on December 20, 2016, 12:18:00 PM
From: http://www.voiceofsandiego.org/topics/land-use/the-two-guys-with-a-little-piece-of-land-on-the-waterfront-that-everybody-wants/

But he has a new idea: Cushman wants Carpenter and Engel to consider putting their hotel on top of an expanded Convention Center. “It’s something that we feel could be very successful,” he said. This isn’t just him musing. As part of the permitting review, the hotel project managers asked Convention Center officials for their questions and concerns. One of them was to do this:

Specifically, we recommend a contiguous convention center expansion with a hotel built above it. The two uses would be served by separate entrances and maintain use of the existing docks as well as new dock spaces.

(!)
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: citizenmilton on December 20, 2016, 02:14:47 PM
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....a new idea: ...putting their hotel on top of an expanded Convention Center.

This is the first bit of logical thinking and optimism I've heard on this issue in a long time. The (prospective, new) hotel owners say they don't want to do it... but I'm hoping that's just an opening bid negotiating tactic. Surely there's room for compromise here?

Their hotel would (presumably?) be worth a lot more if it was sitting on top of an expanded convention center, right?

If they could be convinced (or effectively coerced through tough negotiations), the only remaining obstacle would be Briggs. I hope they've got a strategy to handle him this time around. (payoff fund, cough cough, payoff fund).

These new hotel owners have a certain amount of leverage (their eight years of control of that area), and the Port authority has leverage (they've got the ability to wait those eight years, if need be), and Comic-Con has leverage to try to force these two parties together? Maybe? And considering the city is on the cusp of actually losing the Chargers (better than 50% chance it seems these days, especially according to recent reports)...maybe the city will be motivated to not lose another community institution?

I'm somewhat optimistic, for a change. I'd like to see renderings/plans for this new, scaled-down, connected-to-a-hotel expansion. I'd be happy even if it wasn't directly attached to the existing convention center. It's close enough for convenience.


Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on December 20, 2016, 06:10:14 PM
http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/growth-development/sd-fi-conventioncenterrepairs-20161220-story.html

(bold mine)

Quote

Heavy equipment has moved into the Sails Pavilion of the San Diego Convention Center, not for a trade show but to begin a $16 million replacement of the floor, roof and other repairs. The project, due for completion in 2018, is part of $25.5 million in upgrades funded from a loan by the California Infrastructure and Economic Development Bank. Another $3.6 million in improvements is being covered by center operations and the city budget.

Convention officials showed off banks of LED lighting in the exhibit halls Tuesday, the first item on the to-do list to be completed and one of those funded locally. “This is largest series of upgrades in convention center history,” said Laurie Coskey, chair of the San Diego Convention Center Corp. board. Also planned are restroom upgrades, replacement of the ceiling and cooling towers in the west building, escalator and elevator modernization and fire safety retrofits.

Clifford “Rip” Rippetoe, the center’s president and CEO, said the improvements will help keep the facility competitive and environmentally sustainable. But he said despite these improvements, some large conventions have decided to meet elsewhere, and others are considering a move because they need more space and expansion is on hold for legal and financial reasons. Among conventions thinking of leaving is San Diego Comic-Con International, whose contract expires after the 2018 event. Rippetoe said negotiations are under way to extend the popular convention another three years.

However, he said he was not pessimistic about eventually seeking a tax increase, if that becomes necessary to finance an expansion. Voters rejected a tax increase to pay for a new Chargers stadium and convention center annex in November. Previous plans called for a $520 million expansion but courts overturned the funding plan and lawsuits still remain that challenge a contiguous expansion on the waterfront. Gil Cabrera, chairman of the board’s budget committee, said the old plans would have to be radically changed because a $270 million, 831-room hotel, known as Fifth Avenue Landing, has been approved on part of the expansion site west of the convention center. One possibility, he said, is to share meeting space with the hotel. Expanding the exhibit halls would be more difficult because loading docks would have to be relocated and there is limited space to do that.

The convention center opened in 1989 and the rooftop meeting area was enclosed a few years later by a fabric structure when convention planners said they could not count on San Diego weather to be rain-free. The facility was last expanded in 2001. Officials said the roof fabric has lasted longer than its original 20-year useful life, but they hope its replacement will last up to 40 years due to technical improvements.

Meanwhile, the concrete floor has been deteriorating and officials showed off the construction site, where T.B. Penick construction crews are digging up 4 inches of concrete and 3 inches of foam before replacement. The $3.6 million replacement is expected to be finished in March. The pavilion will close in August for a six-month replacement of the fabric roof.

The IBank loan previously was described as carrying an interest rate of 3.59 percent and an annual payment up to $1.6 million over its 25-year life. Previously, the agency loaned $21.5 million to three other projects in the county: $1.8 million to an Oceanside community center in 2001; $3.5 million to Del Mar for a sewage collection and treatment plant; and another $16.2 million to Del Mar for a new city hall. The convention center project is the largest approved so far under its revolving  fund program and slightly exceeded the standard $25 million maximum.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on December 31, 2016, 10:36:36 PM
San Diego Convention Center Begins Infrastructure Renovations

https://visitsandiego.com/2016/12/san-diego-convention-center-begins-infrastructure-renovations

From: Convention Center Unveils LED Upgrades in Exhibit Halls

https://visitsandiego.com/2016/12/convention-center-unveils-led-upgrades-exhibit-halls

A capital improvement project was recently completed, which removed all fluorescent lighting from Exhibit Halls A through H and replaced them with LED light fixtures throughout the 525,701 sq. ft. exhibit hall. The LED's offer more light while using less electricity, which is more energy-efficient and leads to saving money.

Overall, replacing 10,282 of the previous light fixtures with new LEDs will reduce the convention center's lighting loads by an estimated 4,461,058 kWh. This translates to savings of approximately $848,654 on utility bills annually.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: mdla on January 11, 2017, 07:49:13 PM
Chargers will announce their intent to move to Los Angeles as early as tomorrow, ESPN reports.

https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/819378037309526018
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: citizenmilton on January 11, 2017, 08:04:45 PM
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Chargers will announce their intent to move to Los Angeles as early as tomorrow, ESPN reports.

https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/819378037309526018

It'll be interesting to see how Mayor Faulconer spins this, in relation to the need to expand the convention center.

Advocates of contiguous expansion of the convention center now have a clearer message and no powerful antagonists. "You lost the Chargers, don't lose Comic-Con."
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on January 11, 2017, 08:27:35 PM
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It'll be interesting to see how Mayor Faulconer spins this, in relation to the need to expand the convention center.

Advocates of contiguous expansion of the convention center now have a clearer message and no powerful antagonists. "You lost the Chargers, don't lose Comic-Con."

Agreed. Mr. Mayor, in light of news that you're considering a run for governor (http://www.kpbs.org/audioclips/33034/) and your previous comments about the stadium ballot measures, "what's best for San Diego" now -???

Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: NoOtherOptions! on January 12, 2017, 05:49:43 AM
God, the Spanos family is full of morons.  The Rams couldn't even fill their own stadium and almost EVERY first year team fills the stadium.  What makes them think the second team in the city that's still not very good is going to be a bigger draw?  They are the Clippers of LA, and LA fans are notoriously fickle.  They burned all the good will in San Diego, and now Angelos will have another team they care nothing for.  Whatever, at least CCI should be more cared for now! No more Convadium non sense!
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: SteveD on January 12, 2017, 07:45:33 AM
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God, the Spanos family is full of morons.  The Rams couldn't even fill their own stadium and almost EVERY first year team fills the stadium.  What makes them think the second team in the city that's still not very good is going to be a bigger draw?  They are the Clippers of LA, and LA fans are notoriously fickle.  They burned all the good will in San Diego, and now Angelos will have another team they care nothing for.  Whatever, at least CCI should be more cared for now! No more Convadium non sense!
I wouldn't jump all over the Rams on attendance issues.  To be fair, they are playing in a stadium that has over 100,000 seats and they are averaging over 80,000 attendees per game.
The numbers for the Chargers are abysmal, averaging just over 50,000 per game in a stadium that only holds 70,000.
What I would like to see is the City of San Diego petition to keep the Chargers name in San Diego just in case they can woe a new franchise in at a later date.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: NoOtherOptions! on January 12, 2017, 08:04:38 AM
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I wouldn't jump all over the Rams on attendance issues.  To be fair, they are playing in a stadium that has over 100,000 seats and they are averaging over 80,000 attendees per game.
The numbers for the Chargers are abysmal, averaging just over 50,000 per game in a stadium that only holds 70,000.
What I would like to see is the City of San Diego petition to keep the Chargers name in San Diego just in case they can woe a new franchise in at a later date.

Did you watch the last 3-4 games? The stadium was half empty.  Goff looks terrible, they have no coach.  They have a powerhouse in their division that will likely keep them down for years to come.  If they are saying it's at 80k that's a damned lie because they are embarrassed.  I'd bet 20k.  The name "Chargers" is owned by the franchise, there is no petition.  If Spanos releases the name like when the Browns moved to Baltimore and became the Ravens they can come in later and grab it but otherwise? No.  The Chargers numbers were abysmal because the locals had accepted the team was leaving by this point.  Not to mention it's a naked attempt to increase the value of the franchise because there were estimates the Rams doubled in value moving to LA.  There's literally no reason to move to LA. 
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on January 12, 2017, 08:18:13 AM
Up here in Northern California, it seems like the Raiders will be moving to Vegas, which is already building a new stadium for them. Hooray!

So it seems like the 2 teams that wanted to leave are going. I'm glad San Diego will be getting rid of the Chargers. So happy for the city residents, as well as we con attendees!
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: SteveD on January 12, 2017, 09:29:11 AM
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Did you watch the last 3-4 games? The stadium was half empty.  Goff looks terrible, they have no coach.  They have a powerhouse in their division that will likely keep them down for years to come.  If they are saying it's at 80k that's a damned lie because they are embarrassed.  I'd bet 20k.  The name "Chargers" is owned by the franchise, there is no petition.  If Spanos releases the name like when the Browns moved to Baltimore and became the Ravens they can come in later and grab it but otherwise? No.  The Chargers numbers were abysmal because the locals had accepted the team was leaving by this point.  Not to mention it's a naked attempt to increase the value of the franchise because there were estimates the Rams doubled in value moving to LA.  There's literally no reason to move to LA.
I'm not trying to defend the team, I hate when teams abandon their fans and move away.
The attendance figures given are for paid attendance, not turnstile attendance.  That's why there may have only been 20k at the games, but they sold over 80k tickets.  The real test will be to see how many season ticket holders actually renew their tickets for next year.  Especially if you have a competing team vying for the same fans.
When I said the City of San Diego should "petition" the Chargers for the name rights, I meant "asked politely".  It would be nice gesture to the fan base to see the Chargers name stay with San Diego just in case.

To get back on topic, is there any possibility that the original funding plan for the convention center expansion, that was deemed illegal, be put on a ballot in November, or has that shipped sailed?
And even so, would they be able to get two-thirds votes from San Diego residents?
If they have truly finally given up on the Convadium idea, what's next?


Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: alyssa on January 12, 2017, 09:43:43 AM
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To get back on topic, is there any possibility that the original funding plan for the convention center expansion, that was deemed illegal, be put on a ballot in November, or has that shipped sailed?
And even so, would they be able to get two-thirds votes from San Diego residents?
If they have truly finally given up on the Convadium idea, what's next?

good questions
i have to think, any or all of the previous plans/methods could be resurrected if there was a demonstrable change in the landscape, funding/political etc.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: The Gossamer on January 12, 2017, 11:20:34 AM
http://www.kusi.com/story/34211763/san-diego-chargers-news-decision-los-angeles-move-relocation

I will not miss these guys. Maybe now the convention can expand.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on January 12, 2017, 11:28:28 AM
Mr. Mayor: having just said goodbye to The Chargers (http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/politics/sd-me-faulconer-reaction-20170112-story.html ), are you also prepared to part with an event whose regional impact is $143.1 million?? I return to my previous question, based upon your previous comments: "what's best for San Diego" now?

From: https://visitsandiego.com/2017/01/2017-convention-center-forecast-projects-record-medical-meetings-11-b-regional-impact

2017 Convention Center Forecast Projects Record Medical Meetings, $1.1 B in Regional Impact

This calendar year, a total of 62 citywide conventions will take place. The City of San Diego benefits from each event, because the hotel and sales tax revenue that results form these conventions goes directly to the city's general fund. In 2017, that number will be an estimated $24.4 million. Convention attendees are projected to generate approximately $653.5 million in direct attendee spending. Currently, center events are projected to account for 769,282 hotel room nights in 2017. Here is a look at the overall economic forecast for 2017.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: citizenmilton on January 12, 2017, 12:37:53 PM
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good questions
i have to think, any or all of the previous plans/methods could be resurrected if there was a demonstrable change in the landscape, funding/political etc.

Removing the Chargers from the scene creates a huge change in the landscape. CCI's frequent antagonist in all of this was a lawyer with a number of fake "public interest" groups who also had the Chargers as a client. He'll probably still be involved, fighting expansion, but now that the main source of funding for his lawsuits left the city, maybe some of his motivation and capabilities will diminish.

The 66% voting threshold is still a huge deal. Part of the Mayor's last-minute efforts to keep the chargers was to secure some financing from the general fund, that wouldn't require a tax increase. Perhaps he can do something similar for the convention center?

Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: citizenmilton on January 12, 2017, 07:39:13 PM
The Mayor's already outlining a new (but similar-sounding) approach, increasing taxes for waterfront expansion, and making it more politically attractive by combining it with efforts to house the homeless and other city needs:

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/politics/sd-me-faulconer-speech-20170103-story.html (http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/politics/sd-me-faulconer-speech-20170103-story.html)

Quote
Mayor Kevin Faulconer proposed a hotel tax hike to pay for a convention center expansion, more homeless programs and increased spending on road repair during his annual State of the City address on Thursday night.
..
The mayor said he’s confident a ballot measure focused on multiple initiatives that poll well with voters can get the two-thirds support necessary for approval. A hike of that size would raise roughly $60 million to $70 million per year.

The convention center expansion would be along the waterfront and would probably be a bit smaller than a previously approved 740,000-square foot expansion that was blocked in court in 2014, he said.

“This is the only legitimate plan that guarantees we can move forward with this critical project,” the mayor told the crowd at the Balboa Theatre.

Faulconer said the expansion would help the city keep Comic-Con, make it possible to attract new and larger conventions, and create thousands of jobs and millions in new tax revenue.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: citizenmilton on January 25, 2017, 09:33:19 PM
More positive developments:

Convention center expansion clears legal hurdle

Quote
Efforts to expand the city’s convention center got a major boost Wednesday when a judge rejected a legal challenge that sought to block such a development on the waterfront.
...
Superior Court Judge Joel Wohlfeil, in a ruling that is not yet final, concluded that the Coastal Commission’s approval of the expansion was in compliance with the California Coastal Act and state environmental laws.

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/sd-fi-convention-ruling-20170125-story.html (http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/sd-fi-convention-ruling-20170125-story.html)
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on January 26, 2017, 06:46:12 AM
Annnnddddd..... here we go again.... hopes getting raised....

Sorry, I'm just cynical after all of the ups and downs. Don't mind me...   :-\
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: citizenmilton on January 26, 2017, 08:29:45 AM
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Annnnddddd..... here we go again.... hopes getting raised....

Sorry, I'm just cynical after all of the ups and downs. Don't mind me...   :-\

Yeah, thus far the whole convention center expansion saga can be described as follows:

(https://www.friendsofcc.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmovieboozer.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2014%2F08%2Flucy-football.jpg&hash=fbd09d9eec835f726a3de257d1bc583bc77b3126)
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on January 26, 2017, 01:37:52 PM
I think you hit the nail on the head, Milton!
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on February 03, 2017, 12:03:25 PM
Pardon Our Dust: Convention Center Renovations Underway

https://visitsandiego.com/2017/02/pardon-our-dust-convention-center-renovations-underway
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on February 08, 2017, 09:59:56 PM
https://twitter.com/SDConventionCtr/status/829111118375161856

Before & After! Halfway thru laying new concrete floor in our iconic Sails Pavilion! https://visitsandiego.com/capital-improvement-projects … @IBankCA #infrastructure
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Michaelnaut on February 11, 2017, 07:43:50 AM
Shame they couldn't make that floor softer for us as we're all waiting there for Preview Night :)
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on February 11, 2017, 09:15:49 AM
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Shame they couldn't make that floor softer for us as we're all waiting there for Preview Night :)

Oh just have some enterprising company hand out seat cushions as promo swag!
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on February 22, 2017, 09:45:00 PM
http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/sd-fi-comiccon-contract-20170222-story.html

Return of the Con? San Diego negotiates its future

Quote
With one year left on Comic-Con’s San Diego contract, tourism executives have launched negotiations to keep the city’s prized convention through 2021. While Comic-Con International has been advocating for years for an expanded convention center to house its mammoth gathering, its chief concern is not about the center but on keeping a lid on escalating hotel room rates. The major condition for a new deal, as it was for previous contracts, is securing a cap on room rates, said San Diego Tourism Authority CEO Joe Terzi. Comic-Con, he said, has agreed in principle to negotiating a three-year deal. The current contract, which ends after next year’s show, covered two years.

Terzi’s hope is to complete negotiations before the start of this year’s four-day convention, which is set to start on July 20, marking the 48th year of the show The Tourism Authority, which oversees bookings for major conventions, is awaiting a formal term sheet from Comic-Con but says organizers are hoping to cap room rate increases at 4 percent over a three-year period. Individual agreements would be sought from the roughly 60 downtown and Mission Valley hotels that participate in a Comic-Con convention “room block.” In order to consummate the existing contract, hotel operators had to agree to not increase their rates over 2016 levels.

“Comic-Con’s major concern, as it has been for the last several years, is having their attendees be able to afford this, so they want to know, what are the rates and what space will you allocate to me,” Terzi said. “In the major downtown hotels, they’ll try to get 90 percent of the inventory guaranteed and minimal rate increases per year.”

Comic-Con spokesman David Glanzer did not respond to requests for comment Thursday.

While the major convention hotels - Marriott Marquis, Manchester Grand Hyatt, Omni and the bayfront Hilton - will typically cap rates on 90 percent of their rooms, the balance of the downtown hotels generally agree to set aside anywhere from 60 percent to 90 percent of their inventory for the Comic-Con block, Terzi said. Scott Hermes, general manager of the Westin San Diego Gaslamp Quarter, said he was pleased to learn that Comic-Con was willing to consider a three-year extension.

“The rates we put out for Comic-Con have to make sense for the individuals coming here or they’ll choose to stay somewhere else,” Hermes said. “So it makes sense for the hotels to price the property fairly but also get a price point that the individuals coming in will select; otherwise everyone loses.”

Comic-Con, which is San Diego’s single-largest convention, floods the city with more than 130,000 attendees, generating an estimated economic impact of $140 million. It also attracts worldwide attention because of its high-profile celebrity panels and appearances by Hollywood studios, major toy companies and top video game producers. Although well-heeled stars and executives can afford high-priced rooms, Comic-Con attendees regularly grouse about costly room rates, which typically reach their highest levels of the year when the pop culture show is in town.

Nightly rates at downtown hotels during last year’s Con ranged from the high $200’s to the low $300’s during the convention. So important is Comic-Con to San Diego’s tourism economy that Mayor Kevin Faulconer has been enlisted in previous years to lean on both Comic-Con organizers and hoteliers to cut a deal. Comic-Con long ago outgrew the bayfront convention center, but longstanding plans to enlarge the space have been on hold ever since a judge ruled that the financing scheme for the project was unconstitutional. Comic-Con organizers, though, have made do by increasingly relying on meeting space within the waterfront convention hotels to supplement the center. The Marriot Marquis, for example, offered up at no cost the lower level of new convention space it added for Comic-Con registration, freeing up space within the convention center.

In years past, rival convention cities such as Los Angeles and Anaheim courted Comic-Con in hopes of persuading the convention to relocate. Terzi said there is less of that wooing going on these days. “Some of our major competitors have decided it doesn’t make sense to convince them to move,” Terzi said. “They recognize this is Comic-Con’s home and, if we can accommodate them, they’ll be here for the long-term. But we have to do our job and not take them for granted.”
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on February 28, 2017, 10:19:26 AM
Most recently completed upgrades = chillers and cooling tower actuators, news that certainly merits a 8)

https://twitter.com/SDConventionCtr/status/835221262691631105/photo/1

#Infrastructure project update: New chillers are here! Learn more about this & other @IBankCA funded projects: https://visitsandiego.com/capital-improvement-projects …

https://visitsandiego.com/cip/chiller-tie

This project connects the systems that supply the heating and cooling system in the building, tying in what used to be separate systems into one connected system.

This project ties in the new chillers from the Sails Pavilion into the chilled water loop with the rest of the building. It helps maintain comfortable temperatures for our guests and clients in the facility and provides flexibility and backup to the entire system. The project involves installing pipes, pumps and controls that connect the new chillers to the existing central plant.

https://visitsandiego.com/cip/rebuild-rooftop-chillers

Complete replacement of two chillers that service the Sails Pavilion.

https://visitsandiego.com/cip/cooling-tower-replacement

Cooling towers help in the process of regulating temperatures to provide comfort for guests in the convention center. Five cooling tower actuators are being replaced to serve the entire facility.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Mel on February 28, 2017, 10:35:06 AM
I'm not sure we needed it any colder in there!
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: semigeekgirl on February 28, 2017, 10:53:44 AM
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I'm not sure we needed it any colder in there!

Exactly what I was thinking... of all the things I've ever complained about in the Convention Center, not being cold enough has never been one of them, lol.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: citizenmilton on March 01, 2017, 08:51:32 AM
Yeah, it's always cool to me in the convention center - with one notable exception -> the hallway on the upper area, East side, near Ballroom 20, where rooms 29A-33C are located. I usually tend to end up seeing a number of panels in those rooms each year. That hallway gets a lot of sunlight, it's pretty warm sometimes, and, quite frankly, sometimes it gets a bit rank. I guess it's unavoidable but maybe those new chillers could have an impact? I doubt it. Either way, I'm at least assuming this was needed otherwise maybe there would've been failures in the future. Glad to see them be preventative. If those failed during Comic-Con, it could get really bad, I expect.

Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: The Gossamer on March 01, 2017, 09:12:06 AM
There was a failure on the chillers some years back during Con. The convention staff brought in big pedastel fans in the upper floor rooms. It was a fairly hot summer that time. I don't remember the exact year..maybe 1999 give or take a couple years. Yes it was sorta rank and sweaty that year.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Mel on March 01, 2017, 10:28:57 AM
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Yes it was sorta rank and sweaty that year.

THAT year?  :D :D :D :D
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Kevin Rutan on March 01, 2017, 12:35:56 PM
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THAT year?  :D :D :D :D

Just imagine if that happened these days, with maxed out attendance and some people thinking that they don't have to bathe all weekend attendees would be passing out from the heat and the smell.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on March 10, 2017, 06:25:44 PM
Timelapse videos of the Sails Pavilion Concrete Pour O0

https://twitter.com/SDConventionCtr/status/840321801095798784

We've just completed a major #infrastructure project: a new concrete floor in the iconic Sails Pavilion! http://bit.ly/2lLRpVo  @IBankCA

From https://visitsandiego.com/2017/03/video-sails-pavilion-concrete-pour-timelapse

Quote
Here are some fun facts about the Sails Pavilion project:

It took 36 hours over 3 days to complete the job
5.3 million pounds of concrete was removed/recycled
That’s equal to seven fully loaded Boeing 747s
The concrete poured in the 90,000 square foot Sails Pavilion could cover almost two football fields
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: jimy on March 11, 2017, 12:52:41 PM
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Timelapse videos of the Sails Pavilion Concrete Pour O0

https://twitter.com/SDConventionCtr/status/840321801095798784

We've just completed a major #infrastructure project: a new concrete floor in the iconic Sails Pavilion! http://bit.ly/2lLRpVo  @IBankCA

From https://visitsandiego.com/2017/03/video-sails-pavilion-concrete-pour-timelapse

Very cool video, I would like to see the same-type video taken during the five days of ComicCon, that would be amazing watching the Preview Night line build and build and then file in at opening... and all the awesome Cosplayers posing in that central area, too cool.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on March 22, 2017, 08:54:59 AM
What's best for San Diego now, Mr. Mayor? And how much will your answer change - again - in the next few months as this shakes out?

(bold note mine)

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/sd-fi-convention-expansion-20170321-story.html

Quote
Tensions are heating up over plans to build a major hotel complex on a key bayfront site where San Diego Mayor Kevin Faulconer is pushing instead for an expansion of the city’s convention center. In a strongly worded letter sent last week to Faulconer, an attorney for the hotel developer advised the mayor to back off from his lobbying efforts to advance an expansion project, asserting that he is undermining plans for the $300 million hotel development, known as Fifth Avenue Landing. “The purpose of this letter is to advise you that your conduct and the conduct of the City and SDCCC (San Diego Convention Center Corp.) are interfering with (Fifth Avenue Landing’s) contractual rights and obligations, which FAL is undertaking at significant expense, and to demand that you, the City and SDCCC cease and desist in any representations or plans to finance or construct a convention center expansion on FAL's leased premises,” wrote attorney Vincent Bartolotta Jr., who is representing Fifth Avenue Landing.

At issue are plans by developer Robert Green and longtime Port of San Diego tenants Ray Carpenter and Art Engel to develop a hotel complex on a five-acre leasehold they control on the bay side of the convention center. That land also happens to be where Faulconer and tourism and business leaders want to expand the center in hopes of holding on to the larger meetings and conventions like Comic-Con that have outgrown the facility, as well as attract still others.

In addition to an 830-room, four-star hotel rising 44 stories, the project calls for two acres of public plazas, open-air cafes along the bayfront promenade, an expansive rooftop garden plaza and a second hotel catering to budget-minded guests. Early last year, San Diego port commissioners, who oversee bayfront land, gave the development team the go-ahead to begin processing its plans, including working with the port on an extensive environment review. That initial report has been completed, but formal approval of the project is still needed from the port before the development could move forward.

Carpenter’s and Engel’s lease, which is not due to expire until 2024, requires that they develop a hotel of at least 400 rooms comparable in quality to other bayfront properties. The condition kicks in once hotel market conditions return to pre-recession levels, which already has occurred. Up until almost two years ago, the Convention Center Corp. had control over the land, but opted to back out of a deal it consummated in 2010 to acquire the leasehold at a cost of $13.5 million as part of its plans to enlarge the convention center. By that time, the expansion project had stalled after a judge ruled in 2014 that the plan to finance it with a hotelier-approved room tax hike was unconstitutional.

More recently, Faulconer has proposed a 2018 ballot measure to increase the city’s hotel tax to help fund not only a waterfront convention center expansion and road repairs but also address homelessness. He and other expansion supporters were buoyed by a court victory in January when a judge rejected a legal challenge of the Coastal Commission’s approval a few years ago of a center expansion on the waterfront.

“The fact that the city is moving forward with this project should not come as a surprise to anyone,” said Faulconer Deputy Chief of Staff Matt Awbrey. “When the city declined to pursue the option in 2015, there was litigation against the convention center expansion. But as it stands today, the expansion plan has been approved by the City Council, Port Commission, Coastal Commission, and the last remaining court case standing in the way of moving forward has been ruled in the city’s favor.

“Mayor Faulconer has been very clear that once the city prevailed in the lawsuit against the expansion plan that he would take the final step by asking the citizens of San Diego to approve funding for the project, and that’s exactly what he is doing. Also, the fact is that the Port, not one of its short-term leaseholders, will be the decision maker regarding this property.”

A representative from Faulconer’s office is scheduled Wednesday to present the convention center board with an update on the city’s expansion planning efforts. In his letter to Faulconer, Bartolotta said it was his understanding that the mayor recently met with each of the port commissioners to talk about favoring the convention center expansion of the hotel project. [after reading this a few times, maybe "of" the hotel project is supposed to be "over" the hotel project?]

Further, he said Faulconer had recently met with The Robert Green Co. to consider downsizing its project to a single tower on a 35,000-square-foot parcel that represents just a small portion of the site. Such an alternative is not feasible for a number of reasons, said Bartolotto, most notably because the parcel is too small and the smaller project would not likely pass muster with the port or the Coastal Commission because of issues related to public access, protection of public views, parking and the need to provide low cost lodging. “I am copying the Port CEO and Port Attorney to ensure that they are aware that (Fifth Avenue Landing) intends to continue to comply with its contractual obligations and that FAL does not consent to the City's current course of conduct and is confident that the Port will also honor its contractual obligations to FAL.”

Port Commissioner Bob Nelson said Tuesday that he has spoken with Faulconer about a number of issues, including the expansion of the convention center but pointed out that there is no convention center expansion project currently before the port. “The Fifth Avenue Landing hotel is moving forward pursuant to an agreement we acknowledged and will strictly follow,” Nelson said. “In fact, Fifth Avenue Landing has a property interest because they hold the lease and we have obligations under that agreement. I’ve heard from the mayor he’d very much like to have the contiguous convention center expansion approved; however, no one has committed any funding, and no one has submitted anything to us saying here’s what we would like to do. Sometimes things are just messy but our hands are bound by both the statutes and the deals made by our predecessors and we are going to honor those commitments.”

Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on March 23, 2017, 11:45:26 AM
It begins...

(bold = mine)

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/tourism/sd-fi-convention-vote-20170322-story.html

Quote
Voters could be asked this November to approve a hike in the hotel room tax to fund a more than $600 million expansion of San Diego’s bayfront convention center, Mayor Kevin Faulconer’s office said Wednesday. In a presentation to the board of the San Diego Convention Center Corp., mayoral Chief of Staff Stephen Puetz announced for the first time that Faulconer wants to revive an already approved enlargement of the center, despite previous discussions about possibly scaling down the project. The original $550 million cost, though, has now escalated to between $630 million and $685 million, and delaying a public vote until 2018 would mean having to finance an even costlier project, Puetz said.

To pay for that project, Faulconer will need a two-thirds majority of voters to endorse raising room taxes by 1 to 3 percentage points, depending on how close or far away individual hotels are from the waterfront center. A smaller portion of the hotel tax revenue generated would go toward road repairs and fighting homelessness, a plan that Faulconer has previously promoted. The mayor, buoyed by a January court victory that effectively upheld the Coastal Commission’s approval in 2013 of an earlier expansion project, will bring the ballot measure proposal to the City Council’s Rules Committee early next month. “We just won a court case in January so we are now in a great spot to move forward with a piece of what’s needed, which is financing,” Puetz told the convention center board. “What we’re talking about doing is the full expansion. There have been different discussions over the past year about, does it make sense to do a scaled-down expansion. The answer to that is no. Studies have shown that doing the full expansion will enable us to not have to go back to coastal (commission) for any additional review.”

A boost in the hotel tax, now at 10.5 percent, would provide enough to finance the expansion and initially generate between $17 million and $20 million a year for tackling street repairs and homelessness, Puetz said. On top of the 10.5 percent, visitors who stay at the city’s larger hotels currently pay an additional 2 percent surcharge to fund tourism marketing. Under Faulconer’s proposal, the maximum total levy for overnight guests would be 15.5 percent, including the marketing surcharge. An expansion of San Diego’s center has been stalled for several years, ever since a judge ruled in 2014 that the plan to finance it with a hotelier-approved room tax hike was unconstitutional. City and tourism leaders have been pushing for years to enlarge the center, which they say is no longer big enough to accommodate larger conventions like Comic-Con and lucrative medical meetings, which demand a great deal of exhibit space. Meanwhile, two of San Diego’s West Coast rivals are pursuing expansions. Anaheim has nearly completed a $190 million expansion, and San Francisco’s Moscone Center is about to embark on a $500 million expansion project. The San Diego project would enlarge rentable space from the current 816,000 square feet to more than 1.2 million, which includes adding 223,000 more square feet to the exhibit hall, Puetz said. Time is of the essence, he stressed, because of rapidly rising construction costs, which are going up by as much as $3.6 million a month.

Councilman David Alvarez questioned the rush to hold a special election when he thinks there are many questions that still need to be answered, including how much money would be set aside for infrastructure and homeless issues. “This requires significant public participation if we’re going to address homelessness,” he said. “You just can’t just throw leftovers to that. On the infrastructure side, we have a multi-billion-dollar problem, and if there’s not a significant enough amount of money to fix our infrastructure then why aren’t we doing this?” Councilman Chris Ward, who represents the downtown area, was more enthusiastic. “I'm encouraged by the renewed enthusiasm about the opportunities ahead and look forward to carefully reviewing what comes before the Rules Committee to identify a viable step forward,” he said.

Although many more hotel rooms have been constructed in the last few years, generating considerably many more millions of dollars in room tax revenues, the financing plan will still require a $60 million contribution from the San Diego Unified Port District, Puetz said. That was also a requirement under the earlier funding strategy. Still a looming issue, though, is control over the waterfront site where the city wants to expand the convention center. A hotel development team known as Fifth Avenue Landing currently has a lease with the Port of San Diego to develop the property and is processing plans for a $300 million hotel complex there.
While the city at one time had control over the 5-acre hotel site, it opted to back out of a deal the Convention Center Corp. consummated in 2010 to acquire the leasehold at a cost of $13.5 million because the expansion project had stalled and no longer had financing. Just last week, an attorney representing Fifth Avenue Landing sent a letter to Faulconer warning him to stop interfering with his client’s development plans. Longtime port tenants Ray Carpenter and Art Engel currently hold the lease and have teamed with hotel developer Robert Green to build out the property.

Late Tuesday, City Attorney Mara Elliott released a letter her office sent to the developer’s attorney, Vincent Bartolotta Jr., reaffirming the city’s right to continue exploring a possible expansion of the convention center. At the same time, she said the city also recognizes the legal rights of Fifth Avenue Landing to pursue processing of its development plans under its lease. But that does not preclude the city from moving ahead with planning on an expansion, including a potential ballot measure, Elliott said. She also opened the door for continued talks between the city and the developer, despite Fifth Avenue Landing’s recent dismissal of a proposal by Faulconer to significantly downsize its hotel project, which includes a 44-story high-rise. “The city requests that (Fifth Avenue Landing) more seriously consider the concepts presented,” she wrote, “and the benefit of working together to achieve the best result for all San Diegans.” Green said he is willing to hear what the mayor has to say but the development team remains committed to the project it has proposed. “We’re not trying to be the bad guys here,” Green said. “But the question people should be asking the city and Convention Center Corp. is, if you wanted to do this, why did you default on your payment and give up your land?”

There remains the possibility that the hotel tax hike could be sharing the ballot with the proposed $1 billion SoccerCity project on the Qualcomm Stadium property. Backers of the project began collecting signatures earlier this month in support of their stadium and housing development, and it’s possible they could seek a special election if the council chose not to approve the project.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Mel on March 23, 2017, 06:34:21 PM
Oh, now that the Chargers aren't trying to suck the life out of the city anymore, we might get our expansion.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on March 25, 2017, 11:07:16 AM
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Oh, now that the Chargers aren't trying to suck the life out of the city anymore, we might get our expansion.

SDUT Editorial Board agrees; an opportunity to re-focus is nigh:

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/opinion/editorials/sd-convention-center-expansion-20170323-story.html

(bold = mine)

Quote
San Diego Mayor Kevin Faulconer has proposed a November 2017 special election for the much-debated convention center expansion on the city’s bayfront. The likelihood that San Diego will have another election so soon after the crowded, contentious one in November should make all of San Diego sit up and pay attention. After debating the future of the Qualcomm Stadium site and the land surrounding the convention center for years, it suddenly appears that 2017 may be the year San Diego looks as closely it can at both sites - and maybe even reinvents itself. This being San Diego, some people will question the rush to hold a special election, and the cost of it. Councilman David Alvarez is already second-guessing the mayor’s proposal. Good. Let’s vet all proposals, and make sure we know what they would - and wouldn’t - do.

The San Diego Union-Tribune Editorial Board has long advocated for the bayfront expansion of the convention center. It has also urged a go-slow approach in determining what should be done with the Qualcomm Stadium site, even before the Chargers unceremoniously dumped San Diego. If a public vote were to come on both proposals this year, it could finally end the debate about how to ensure these valuable sites stay viable for decades.

It’s time for San Diego voters to have their say. Assuming the mayor actually unveils a proposal to increase hotel room taxes to pay for a convention center expansion (and also for city infrastructure and homeless assistance) and assuming the SoccerCity citizens’ initiative gets enough signatures to force the City Council to approve the project or hold a public vote on it, the council should put both plans to a public vote in November. Special elections can cost millions of dollars, so it makes sense to pair the proposals instead of holding two elections, and there really is no reason to wait.

Faulconer’s office is fully aware the odds of passage of such a tax increase - which requires two-thirds approval - are better in a special, smaller election than in a regular election in 2018. But beyond that political reason to hold a special election this year, mayoral aides raise a strong fiscal point: The cost of a special election pales in comparison to the escalating cost of a convention center expansion - a cost that would increase if a public vote were delayed until 2018 - and the lost opportunity cost of not having $20 million or so extra a year to spend on city streets and the homeless.

The mayor’s chief of staff said last week that the original $550 million cost of the convention center expansion has increased $80 million to $135 million, and that construction costs could grow as much as $3.6 million a month. Expansion plans stalled in court in recent years and site control remains an issue, but project proponents won a big victory in January when a Superior Court judge rejected a legal challenge to block development.

It’s time to settle these issues. Do San Diegans want to expand a convention center with a hotel room tax increase to help accommodate large conventions like Comic-Con? Do San Diegans want a Major League Soccer team and more on the land where Qualcomm Stadium and a parking lot sit? Can the desires of San Diego State University and other areas of concern be addressed in side deals? Let’s figure out what to do with these sites so we can stop discussing the future and start living in it.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on March 31, 2017, 07:13:50 AM
From http://www.voiceofsandiego.org/topics/news/morning-report-airbnb-is-safe-for-now-at-least/

Quote
San Diego’s mayor, Kevin Faulconer, has submitted his official request to the City Council that it consider putting a hotel-room tax increase on the ballot. The new money would fund an expansion of the Convention Center and set aside a little for homeless services and roads. The mayor listed specific goals for the money he requests for roads and the Convention Center. Obviously the goal of the Convention Center is to expand the Convention Center. The goal of the streets part is to meet or exceed a certain conditions index for streets. No goal is listed for the homeless services effort.

“Funding will support long-term regional efforts to address homelessness as well as immediate interventions for some of our most vulnerable homeless families…” the mayor’s request reads before listing some approaches it could fund. The mayor also put it in writing that he wants the ballot measure to come up at a special election this November. The increase to the hotel room tax would be 1 percent for the whole city of San Diego. Another 1 percent for hotels south of Highway 56 and north of Highway 54. And another 1 percent for hotels downtown. It would be on top of the city’s 10.5 percent hotel room tax along with the 2 percent tourism marketing levy.

From http://docs.sandiego.gov/councilcomm_agendas_attach/2017/Rules_170405_1.pdf

SUBJECT: Consideration of a Proposed Ballot Measure to Increase the Transient Occupancy Tax (TOT) up to 1,  2 and 3% to Fund a Contiguous Phase III Convention Center Expansion, Initiatives to Reduce Homelessness and Road Repairs

Direct the City Attorney’s Office to work with the Mayor’s Office to prepare a draft ordinance for consideration by the City Council in June to place on the ballot for a special election in November of 2017.   
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on April 04, 2017, 07:01:39 PM
That did not take very long to happen:

From http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/growth-development/sd-me-convention-center-lawsuit-20170403-story.html

Quote
In fact, developers of a luxury bayfront hotel proposed for the site have sued the San Diego Convention Center, accusing the city-owned nonprofit agency of interfering in their permitting process. Fifth Avenue Landing, the company that controls the five acres along San Diego Bay where Faulconer wants to expand the city’s showcase meeting space, claims in the lawsuit that convention center officials are undermining plans for a 4-star, $300 million hotel. “Plaintiff believes that defendant has been taking actions designed to prevent plaintiff from satisfying its contractual obligations,” states the suit, filed last month in San Diego Superior Court.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on April 05, 2017, 08:09:32 AM
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That did not take very long to happen:

Shocker. ;)
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on April 05, 2017, 03:30:24 PM
Lawsuit or not...

http://www.10news.com/news/san-diego-city-council-pushes-mayors-hotel-tax-initiative-forward

Quote
A City Council committee voted unanimously Wednesday to direct the mayor's and city attorney's offices to draft language for a proposed ballot measure to raise hotel room taxes to pay for an expansion of the San Diego Convention Center and produce funding streams for road repairs and homelessness programs. The proposed ballot measure would be brought before the full council in June. Wednesday's 5-0 Rules Committee vote followed more than two hours of discussion and comments from dozens of San Diegans on each side of the measure. Mayor Kevin Faulconer proposed the ballot measure. Local tourism boosters contend the bayside convention center is losing out on the biggest trade shows because other cities can offer facilities with more room. Competitors for years have been trying to lure away Comic-Con International, the annual celebration of the popular arts that began in San Diego and is the area's largest annual event.

"This is really about investing in our city in a way that will pay back a return on that investment," said City Councilman Mark Kersey, the committee's vice chairman. "For every dollar the city invests in the convention center, we return a dollar-40. Not everything we do has to have a dollars and cents financial return, but this one does." The mayor's office said expansion would add 400,000 square feet of convention space, which could attract an additional 50 events to downtown. Supporters projected that would generate an additional $15 million annually in room tax revenue for the city from more than 380,000 new hotel room nights. The extra dollars would help pay for municipal services such as public safety, parks and libraries, according to the mayor's office. The proposal also estimates an additional $10 million each would be directed to programs for the homeless and road repairs every year, with the income growing as tourism increases. That money can back bonds that would bring in additional funding for projects.

"I'm tired, and San Diegans in general are tired of putting a Band-Aid over an issue that should have been a priority a long time ago," said Ismahan Abdullahi, director of community partnership and civic engagement at the Partnership for the Advancement of New Americans. "We are in dire need of real change and in dire need of leadership. Our families deserve better." The levy -- known officially as the Transient Occupancy Tax -- is paid by hotel guests. The Chargers attempted a similar funding mechanism in their stadium measure last November, but it failed to gain the support of even a majority of voters. Two-thirds voter support is required to raise taxes. With Wednesday's vote, committee members directed the mayor's and city attorney's offices to draft the ballot language and bring it to the full City Council in June. That's when the council could decide whether to call a special election for November and place the item on the ballot -- likely alongside a plan to redevelop the Qualcomm Stadium property. If approved by two-thirds of voters, the hotel room tax increase would take effect in 2018. Construction on the convention center expansion would begin in summer 2019 and take 44 months. The Rules Committee also unanimously approved a proposal by Council President Myrtle Cole, the committee chairwoman, to create a special council panel to tackle homelessness issues.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: citizenmilton on April 06, 2017, 11:41:08 AM
Wow, even if things go as smoothly as possible on the political front, check out this timeline estimate:

Quote
If approved by two-thirds of voters, the hotel room tax increase would take effect in 2018. Construction on the convention center expansion would begin in summer 2019 and take 44 months.

By the time SDCC 2023 arrives and this expansion is done, it'll be time to propose another convention center facility on top of the expansion!

I'm still hoping that some kind of compromise between the convention center and the 5th Ave. Landing people could somehow combine efforts, expanding the convention center contiguously but also structuring the plans so that a new big hotel can be added too.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on April 06, 2017, 11:46:27 AM
Happy Global Meetings Industry Day #GMID2017 (a well-timed economic footprint reminder after yesterday's committee vote):

From https://visitsandiego.com/2017/04/video-san-diego-convention-center-ceo-celebrates-global-meetings-industry-day

Quote
Nearly 800,000 people will attend a meeting or convention at the San Diego Convention Center this calendar year. Each of those attendees helps drive the economic engine in the City of San Diego and across our region.

$1.1 Billion estimated regional impact
$24.4 million in hotel and sales tax revenue
769,282 estimated hotel room nights
793,960 estimated attendees
$653.5 million in direct attendee spending

The City of San Diego benefits from each event, because the hotel and sales tax revenue that results form these conventions goes directly to the city's general fund. In 2017, that number will be an estimated $24.4 million. To put that into more context: for every $1 the city invests, the return on investment is $1.43. April 6, 2017 marks the second annual Global Meetings Industry Day (GMID), an annual celebration designed to showcase the power of meetings, events, conventions, exhibitions, and other face-to-face gatherings. The San Diego City Council issued a proclamation in honor of Global Meetings Industry Day, and the San Diego Convention Center's President and CEO Clifford "Rip" Rippetoe is sharing a message of the "ripple effect" these meetings brings to our community.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: matthew on April 15, 2017, 09:24:42 AM
conventions cancelled during construction, due to massive construction noises during construction. if sdcc is not cancelled, then expect there to be some serious noise. it might be mostly over, or reduced by the time sdcc comes around. or not.



edit, bring earplugs, the ones construction workers use. cheap, and might make things "nicer". just in case.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on April 16, 2017, 02:54:43 PM
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conventions cancelled during construction, due to massive construction noises during construction. if sdcc is not cancelled, then expect there to be some serious noise. it might be mostly over, or reduced by the time sdcc comes around. or not.



edit, bring earplugs, the ones construction workers use. cheap, and might make things "nicer". just in case.

Good idea.

https://visitsandiego.com/capital-improvement-projects

Of the upgrade timelines listed, those that cross into Comic-Con territory are Retrofit Fire Life Safety System, Escalator Modernization and Elevator Modernization.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on April 17, 2017, 07:52:17 AM
So the elevators and escalators might be shut down?
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: citizenmilton on April 17, 2017, 08:02:05 AM
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conventions cancelled during construction, due to massive construction noises during construction. if sdcc is not cancelled, then expect there to be some serious noise. it might be mostly over, or reduced by the time sdcc comes around. or not.



edit, bring earplugs, the ones construction workers use. cheap, and might make things "nicer". just in case.

On a recent Voice of San Diego podcast, they had a good discussion with Gil Cabrera, vice chair of the San Diego Convention Center Corporation. Some info about the episode is here: http://www.voiceofsandiego.org/topics/news/vosd-podcast-18/ (http://www.voiceofsandiego.org/topics/news/vosd-podcast-18/)

That article doesn't mention it, but in the audio, the topic of disruption is discussed. And Cabrera said their expansion plan takes great pains to minimize disruption to the convention center during construction. Obviously, it won't be without impacts, but he said that the construction timeline is actually lengthened on purpose, so that they can do the expansion efforts in such a way to minimize impact. It honestly sounded like, for the most part, Comic-Con might be able to avoid major disruptions.

Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: hikanteki on April 17, 2017, 11:36:21 AM
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Good idea.

https://visitsandiego.com/capital-improvement-projects

Of the upgrade timelines listed, those that cross into Comic-Con territory are Retrofit Fire Life Safety System, Escalator Modernization and Elevator Modernization.

These three projects each last 19-26 months, so it's unlikely that they'd cause SDCC (or other conventions) to be cancelled. Otherwise there would be no conventions at all for the next two years.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Mel on April 17, 2017, 08:48:26 PM
I'm pretty positive that the only convention of the year that uses the entire convention center is SDCC. Many times there's more than one going on in there and it's still not in full use. I don't think they'd plan any construction in a way as to disrupt SDCC though.....if anything, they wouldn't do any at all during SDCC. I mean can you imagine any construction trying to happen DURING? No way. Things will get done before and after.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: matthew on April 18, 2017, 09:18:21 PM
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On a recent Voice of San Diego podcast, they had a good discussion with Gil Cabrera, vice chair of the San Diego Convention Center Corporation. Some info about the episode is here: http://www.voiceofsandiego.org/topics/news/vosd-podcast-18/ (http://www.voiceofsandiego.org/topics/news/vosd-podcast-18/)

That article doesn't mention it, but in the audio, the topic of disruption is discussed. And Cabrera said their expansion plan takes great pains to minimize disruption to the convention center during construction. Obviously, it won't be without impacts, but he said that the construction timeline is actually lengthened on purpose, so that they can do the expansion efforts in such a way to minimize impact. It honestly sounded like, for the most part, Comic-Con might be able to avoid major disruptions.



sadly, some conventions did cancel due to noise issues. but tiny little 2 day affairs that dont even use the whole place hardly matter (read it about 3 weeks ago in a business article, but cannot find the source now...). but parts of comiccon may be affected if close enough to a work area.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: juliafrood on May 01, 2017, 01:02:43 AM
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This is from a city, too, that isn't like others where it's diehard about the football team.



I live in Pittsburgh, like, 10 minutes from the Stadiums within the actual city limits.  You have NO idea. 
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on May 06, 2017, 08:06:28 AM
New Hall H chairs:

sdconventionctr In honor of #MayThe4thBeWithYou, our President & CEO Rip Rippetoe, Vice Chair Gil Cabrera, Senior Event Manager for @comic_con International Tim Pontrelli & Communications Staff christen the new #HallH Chairs! The #SDCC countdown is on! @starwars #nerds #comiccon

https://www.instagram.com/p/BTrKyf0BAvV/?taken-by=sdconventionctr
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Mel on May 06, 2017, 08:43:10 AM
OMG, those chairs look amazing.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on May 06, 2017, 08:55:12 AM
They do look more comfy!
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Michaelnaut on May 06, 2017, 07:35:04 PM
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New Hall H chairs:

sdconventionctr In honor of #MayThe4thBeWithYou, our President & CEO Rip Rippetoe, Vice Chair Gil Cabrera, Senior Event Manager for @comic_con International Tim Pontrelli & Communications Staff christen the new #HallH Chairs! The #SDCC countdown is on! @starwars #nerds #comiccon

https://www.instagram.com/p/BTrKyf0BAvV/?taken-by=sdconventionctr
How much you wanna bet that they could sell those chairs as SDCC Exclusives?  Imagine the money that they could make?  Imagine the money made going into the Convention Center expansion?  A win-win!! :)
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: matthew on May 10, 2017, 08:18:19 PM
new hall h chairs.

now fewer people will leave due to discomfort. their rear ends will not lose feeling after 3 hours of sitting.



what impact will this have?
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: jimy on May 11, 2017, 05:43:22 AM
Wondering what they did with the old chairs? I'm betting that some of us would've paid good money to have one of those old uncomfortable chairs in our homes, just to say this chair was in Hall H when "xxx" happened --- FILL IN THE "xxx", "Star Wars Reunion", "Loki appearance", "pen attack incident"

What's your favorite Hall H moment?
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on May 11, 2017, 06:08:21 AM
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What's your favorite Hall H moment?

Honestly? Getting in.

I have little videos I filmed when we were let in at the beginning of the morning, then running into the empty hall and rushing up to the front for seats. It's such an adrenaline high! Yes, the programming is great, but first entering the hall after enduring an overnight lineup is *such* a thrill!

We have a traditional picture we take in our group, holding up our wristbands with the main screen from Hall H in the background. It's now iconic to us!
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: RustyPonds on May 11, 2017, 06:43:26 AM
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Honestly? Getting in.

I have little videos I filmed when we were let in at the beginning of the morning, then running into the empty hall and rushing up to the front for seats. It's such an adrenaline high! Yes, the programming is great, but first entering the hall after enduring an overnight lineup is *such* a thrill!

We have a traditional picture we take in our group, holding up our wristbands with the main screen from Hall H in the background. It's now iconic to us!

This. I watch my "Getting In" video from that Force Awakens Friday Hall H day every now and then. Gets me pumped.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on May 11, 2017, 11:10:21 AM
Economic footprints (clip obviously not recorded during the human tidal wave of SDCC):

https://visitsandiego.com/2017/05/video-vice-chair-gil-cabrera-celebrates-national-travel-tourism-week

https://youtu.be/tTaRAL_5iTU
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on May 12, 2017, 08:52:08 AM
"Long time supporter of the expansion..." now that the Chargers are gone:

http://www.voiceofsandiego.org/topics/news/san-diego-explained-31/

Quote
Expanding the San Diego Convention Center has been on the city’s to-do list for a long time. Lots of hurdles have kept if from happening, but Mayor Kevin Faulconer is proposing a new ballot measure that would pay for the expansion and invest more money in street repairs and homelessness solutions. City leaders have said for years that San Diego needs a bigger convention center to keep the business it has and to better compete with other cities that have more space. But a past plan to pay for the expansion fell apart. Faulconer now wants San Diegans to vote on his roposal in a November special election. The plan would increase hotel taxes by 1 percent to 3 percent citywide for 40 years. On this week’s San Diego Explained, NBC 7’s Monica Dean and Voice of San Diego’s Lisa Halverstadt detail the mayor’s proposed hotel-tax hike.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on May 21, 2017, 04:25:36 PM
Ballot measures consideration - convention center and SoccerCity - upcoming:

From http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/politics/sd-me-soccercity-council-20170519-story.html

Quote
Proponents of the other measure, which would raise hotel taxes, say there’s an urgent need for additional convention space and the extra money the measure would provide to fight homelessness and help fix San Diego’s crumbling streets. Councilman Scott Sherman said he thinks those arguments will persuade a majority of the nine-member council to call a November 2017 special election and place both proposals on that ballot. "I don't think it will be 9-0, but I think both will get more than the five votes needed to put them both on the ballot this November," Sherman, a Republican, said on Friday.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on June 02, 2017, 07:16:19 AM
2017... or 2018:

From: http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/politics/sd-me-council-soccercity-20170601-story.html

Quote
The San Diego City Council isn’t scheduled to decide the election dates for the convention center proposal until June 12 and SoccerCity until June 19, but the council may tip its hand on Monday by eliminating funding for a special election.

Such a move, which could come during a vote on the city’s budget for the fiscal year that begins July 1, would make it highly unlikely that either measure would go before voters until sometime in 2018 — probably in the November general election.

Because four of the council’s nine members have declared their opposition to a special election this year, supporters of the two measures have become increasingly concerned that a majority of the council will remove $5 million for the special election that Mayor Kevin Faulconer included in his proposed budget.

A spokeswoman for Council President Cole said Thursday council members could vote Monday to spend the $5 million earmarked for a special election on other priorities. She said they also could leave the money in the budget, but stipulate it would be spent on other things if no special election takes place.

Regardless, she said the council is scheduled to vote June 12 on whether to have a special election, and then subsequently vote at the same meeting whether the convention center expansion would be on that ballot. A council vote on SoccerCity is scheduled for June 19.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Mel on June 02, 2017, 07:24:00 AM
As much as I want the expansion, we don't need to be wasting millions on a special election.  We have a big homeless problem downtown and I'd like to see the money put into helping homelessness. We can wait until the next scheduled election.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: citizenmilton on June 02, 2017, 09:04:54 AM
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As much as I want the expansion, we don't need to be wasting millions on a special election.  We have a big homeless problem downtown and I'd like to see the money put into helping homelessness. We can wait until the next scheduled election.

In addition to the convention center expansion, the hotel tax increase would also allocate approx $10million per year for homeless programs. So, if it does pass one year sooner, even if you factor in the $5 million cost for the election itself, that's $5 million more that the programs wouldn't have. And it would approve $400 million for the next 40 years for homeless programs. I don't live in San Diego and have only seen a few reports about the situation, but it sounds like advocates for those issues feel like even $10m per year is insufficient. But, here's a chance to bootstrap some of the homeless efforts to the well-financed hotel lobby's interests, so I'm not sure it's a clear-cut choice that delaying the special election another year would actually be a net plus or minus for addressing the problems.

Also, I'm not sure how accurate this is, but I've heard some observers speculate that an off-year ballot measure has a better chance of success (because of the 66% "yes vote" requirement) and that higher turnout tends to make it harder to get to the 2/3rds level. So, if they delay the special election, it decreases the chances not only for the expansion of the convention center - but also decreases the chances of getting those funds allocated for the homeless concerns.

Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: citizenmilton on June 06, 2017, 07:27:37 AM
Well, it looks unclear as to whether or not the expansion proposal will be presented to voters this year in a special election.

The city council just rejected the funding for the special election: http://www.voiceofsandiego.org/topics/news/morning-report-48/ (http://www.voiceofsandiego.org/topics/news/morning-report-48/)

But, in the story, it mentions that the mayor might still be able to work around the council's move:

Quote
"I intend to use my veto authority to restore the special election funding, while still retaining the added funding for our police, so the City Council can take an up-or-down vote on these urgent ballot measures. The City Council should not ignore these time-sensitive issues — and give San Diegans the opportunity to vote this year," Faulconer said in the statement.

So, sounds like it still might happen? As with everything with this convention center story, the "shruggy" emoji fits.



Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on June 09, 2017, 11:50:14 PM
On off on again - maybe:

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/politics/sd-me-faulconer-veto-20170609-story.html

Quote
Seeking to boost the chances that San Diego will hold a special election this November on SoccerCity and expanding the convention center, Mayor Kevin Faulconer used his veto power on Friday to restore $5 million in funding for such an election. The City Council’s five-member Democratic majority removed that money from the city’s annual budget on Monday over objections from the council’s four Republicans.

Faulconer says having the money in the budget will allow the council to objectively consider on Monday the merits of having a special election this November. The election would include the proposed SoccerCity redevelopment on the Qualcomm Stadium site and a measure that would raise hotel taxes to expand the convention center and boost funding for homeless programs and street repairs.

Faulconer also used his veto power to increase funding for police officer retention, facility upgrades at police stations, trees, homelessness prevention and the city attorney’s office. The mayor, who has never before used his veto power to adjust the city budget, will pay for the additional expenditures with a variety of new cuts.

Arguments for waiting until the 2018 general election for the two ballot measures include the costs of a special election, unresolved details of both proposals and city voters easily approving a ballot measure last year that said such proposals should be decided in higher-turnout general elections. The main argument in favor of having a special election this November is the time-sensitivity of both proposals. “Make no mistake about it, this is one of the most consequential votes this City Council will ever take,” Faulconer said. “This City Council can stand in the way of progress or give voters the chance to create more jobs, fix our roads, reduce homelessness and build a world-class development that will generate millions of dollars for neighborhood services and public safety.”

To cover the $5 million special election, Faulconer will cut $5 million from the Qualcomm Stadium operations fund, contending there is already adequate funding for the next two years of payments for stadium debt service. The mayor also added $1 million to a $3 million fund the council created on Monday to boost efforts to reduce the city’s police officer shortage. No decisions on how to spend that money will be made until a study of the problem is completed. To cover that $1 million, the mayor will remove $675,000 in discretionary funding from two council members who oppose the special election - Barbara Bry and Chris Ward. The other $325,000 will come from excess cash in the fiscal 2017 budget.

To cover $413,000 for police station upgrades, the mayor eliminated that same amount from the Bay Bridge Community Center roof project. A Faulconer spokesman said adequate funding for the project is already in place. To cover $66,000 in homeless prevention money, Faulconer removed that same amount from funding for a new council committee on homelessness led by Councilman Chris Ward, another special election opponent. To cover $200,000 for addition tree planting, the mayor removed that same amount from funding to create a business plan for community choice energy. To cover $500,000 in additional funding for the city attorney, the mayor removed $500,000 to expand the Get it Done! app because the expansion can be handled without the extra cash, a Faulconer spokesman said.

The council has five business days to override the veto actions, and would need six votes to do so.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on June 12, 2017, 04:21:40 PM
On off on off:

From http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/politics/sd-me-convention-vote-20170612-story.html

Quote
San Diego City Council members on Monday rejected a proposed November special election for a hotel tax increase to expand the convention center and boost money for homelessness and street repair. The 5-4 vote along party lines — five Democrats opposed to a special election and four Republicans in favor -- makes it highly likely the council will also reject a November vote on the SoccerCity proposal in Mission Valley. The council’s vote on Monday was not to have a special election this year for any ballot measures, making a vote on the convention center proposal unnecessary. The council is scheduled to vote next Monday whether to adopt the SoccerCity proposal or send it to the voters. If the council chooses to send it to voters, the timing of such an election would be determined at a subsequent meeting, Deputy City Attorney Sharon Spivak said.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Mel on June 12, 2017, 07:09:58 PM
There will be a 2018 vote. It doesn't mean it's over. We just aren't sinking 5 million into something that isn't even fully planned out yet. I was covering this live downtown and I agree with this decision.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: citizenmilton on June 12, 2017, 07:24:28 PM
Serious setback. Not only is it punted for another year, but placing this item on a major general-election ballot reduces its chances of passage significantly.

Small sliver of hope: gives them another year to negotiate a compromise with the folks who plan to build the Fifth Avenue Landing hotel project. I'm still hoping they could combine the convention center expansion plan plus the new hotel concept, make the new hotel attached to the expanded parts of the convention center. But thus far neither side seems willing to bridge a compromise.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on June 15, 2017, 11:59:24 AM
http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/politics/sd-me-faucett-convention-20170615-story.html

Quote
Aiming to revive a special election this November to expand the San Diego convention center, Mayor Kevin Faulconer announced on Thursday he’s hiring a new chief of staff who is on the center’s board of directors and works for the Chamber of Commerce. Aimee Faucett, who spent many years as an aide to local Republican politicians, could potentially secure City Council support for a November vote by brokering a deal with labor groups that alleviates some concerns raised by council members. Faucett, 43, will replace Stephen Puetz, who faced criticism recently for having his wedding and reception at the home of a local developer. “I look forward to helping Mayor Faulconer get the expansion of the Convention Center across the finish line, tackle the homeless crisis, make housing more affordable, grow our economy and deliver excellent city services to every community,” Faucett said in a news release.

The announcement comes three days after the City Council voted 5-4 to reject a proposed November special election for a hotel tax increase to expand the convention center and boost money for homeless programs and street repair. Some of the five council members who voted “no” raised concerns about the proposal not including wage rules favored by labor unions, such as local hire requirements and a project labor agreement. Previous plans to expand the convention center that got blocked in court included such wage rules in a deal brokered between labor leaders and then-Mayor Jerry Sanders, whom Faucett worked for as deputy chief of staff. Faulconer said he was excited to have Faucett, who served as his chief of staff when he was a council member, back on his team. “Aimee is one of the most respected civic leaders in San Diego and her love for public service shines through everything she does,” Faulconer said. "We have a lot of things to get done for our city and I know Aimee is ready to get started."

Puetz, who’s leaving the city for a consulting job, has served as Faulconer’s chief of staff since he took office in winter 2014, and led his City Council office in 2013. Puetz, 34, also ran Faulconer’s successful mayoral campaign in 2014 and the 2012 council campaigns of Mark Kersey and Scott Sherman. Faucett is scheduled to replace Puetz in mid-July. Her annual salary will be $190,000. Puetz is paid $176,000. Faulconer and Faucett would need to secure one additional council vote by late August to have enough time for the city to hold a November special election on the convention center expansion, which would require two-thirds approval because it’s a tax increase for specific purpose. But if five council votes are secured, a special election could be called for December, January or subsequent months. Puetz was married in 2015 at the $8.9 million estate of developer Morgan Dene Oliver, a longtime Faulconer supporter. Puetz paid $427 for use of the property. The city ethics commission said the rental arrangement met with its conflict of interest rules.
“Stephen has been my trusted adviser for many years,” said Faulconer. “His strong work ethic, tenacity and love of San Diego have served our city well. Having Stephen at the helm was pivotal in returning City Hall's focus to our neighborhoods and making city government more efficient, effective and customer-service oriented.” Puetz, who will join national consulting firm Axiom Strategies, thanked the mayor. “It has been an honor and a privilege to serve the residents of San Diego and help implement Mayor Faulconer’s vision of an inclusive city government that creates opportunities for San Diegans and delivers results for every neighborhood,” he said.

The convention center proposal is the latest in a long series of attempts to expand the waterfront facility, with the most recent dying in 2014 when a judge ruled unconstitutional a plan to finance the expansion with an hotelier-approved room tax hike. The new proposal would increase San Diego’s relatively low hotel tax rate by 1 to 3 percent depending on proximity to the convention center. It would expand the size of the convention center to more than 1.2 million square feet from the current 816,000 at an estimated cost of $630 million to $685 million.The measure would also provide an estimated $10 million per year each for homeless programs and street repairs.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on June 27, 2017, 11:08:43 AM
https://youtu.be/JdW87h8yYAI
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on June 27, 2017, 11:16:27 AM
Great video! Thanks for sharing that, AzT!
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: citizenmilton on June 29, 2017, 07:42:53 AM
I wonder... are these new more-comfy chairs just for Hall H? Or in all the meeting rooms?
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on June 30, 2017, 08:20:30 AM
8)

https://www.facebook.com/SDConventionCenter/videos/vb.358290337510/10154484901862511/?type=3&theater

Comic-Con Press Conference

https://www.facebook.com/SDConventionCenter/videos/10154484901862511/
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on June 30, 2017, 08:57:35 AM
Wait... did all of those people just start the line for Hall H?  :o

Thanks for posting this, AzT!
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Mel on June 30, 2017, 10:48:52 AM
Comic-Con staying through 2021!!!! Woooooo!

It's never leaving, though I know we like to talk about it and speculate.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: citizenmilton on June 30, 2017, 12:02:46 PM
Somewhere, a teardrop slides down Cory Briggs's lonely face.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on August 08, 2017, 11:22:41 AM
From https://visitsandiego.com/2017/08/san-diego-convention-center-sails-pavilion-roof-replacement-begins

Quote
For the first time in nearly 28 years, the San Diego skyline will be very, very different. The San Diego Convention Center's iconic Sails Pavilion roof, with its white peaks that are visible from the air, land and bay, will be coming down in order to be replaced with a brand new structure.

"The white sails roof atop the 90,000 square foot exhibit space is part of what has made the San Diego Convention Center one of the most recognizable venues, worldwide," said San Diego Convention Center Corporation President & CEO Clifford "Rip" Rippetoe. "Thanks to a collaborative effort between our staff, our Board of Directors as well as City and State officials, we secured funding to extend the life of this unique facility asset."

After nearly three decades in service, the original sails will be taken down — one section at a time. The preliminary work will begin in August, with the entire project lasting through January 2018. In addition, the fire-life safety system that is part of the Sails Pavilion — including fire water cannons - will be upgraded, and new lighting will be installed.

Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: dcuodust on August 08, 2017, 01:30:56 PM
The Sails Pavilion is a unique space. It's always nice to walk through during the con.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: RustyPonds on August 08, 2017, 01:50:50 PM
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The Sails Pavilion is a unique space. It's always nice to walk through during the con.

One of my favorite spots, and the only reason I wish we still had to pick up our badges on-site (weird, I know). I loved going down that vine covered tunnel and into the bright sunshine-infused Sails Pavilion.

It was one of those "Alright, here we go" moments. And as a first timer, being told "Welcome to Comic-Con", it was a "I finally made it!" moment.

:(
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on August 19, 2017, 06:17:21 PM
https://twitter.com/SDConventionCtr/status/898328185414205440

A Sails Pavilion with no sails?! It's the first step in our project to replace the iconic fabric roof. Our CEO Rip Rippetoe has the details!
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: cabler30 on August 19, 2017, 06:28:30 PM
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https://twitter.com/SDConventionCtr/status/898328185414205440

A Sails Pavilion with no sails?! It's the first step in our project to replace the iconic fabric roof. Our CEO Rip Rippetoe has the details!

Im guessing any work going on around comic-con time will put on hold like a week before and all be stablized or fixed so place is useable while the event happens and then will continue i guess a week after so all stuff can be brought in and taken out before they start or continue any work on place. so guessing maybe be open air or partial open while con is happening upstair, will be a temp coveringso so no one gotta fry while in the open air area at time of con. atleast i would think they do that if need at time. so they gonna be busy before and after the con to have the center be useable at anytime.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Berts on August 21, 2017, 10:37:18 AM
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Im guessing any work going on around comic-con time will put on hold like a week before and all be stablized or fixed so place is useable while the event happens and then will continue i guess a week after so all stuff can be brought in and taken out before they start or continue any work on place. so guessing maybe be open air or partial open while con is happening upstair, will be a temp coveringso so no one gotta fry while in the open air area at time of con. atleast i would think they do that if need at time. so they gonna be busy before and after the con to have the center be useable at anytime.


In the video, he says that the entire project will be complete by this January. So it won't affect Comic-Con.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: cabler30 on August 21, 2017, 11:28:49 AM
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In the video, he says that the entire project will be complete by this January. So it won't affect Comic-Con.

That is good news was watching and busy same time so wasnt sure , but it is good they making sure al get doen before next con so no hassles any.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Michaelnaut on August 27, 2017, 11:20:12 AM
Is it just me that gets a giddy feeling when watching the video and seeing the different halls and such that I camped out in ("I was *there!*") or no? :)

Can't wait to try and get back for next year!
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: cabler30 on August 27, 2017, 01:06:43 PM
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Is it just me that gets a giddy feeling when watching the video and seeing the different halls and such that I camped out in ("I was *there!*") or no? :)

Can't wait to try and get back for next year!

I guess it was kinda like ur home away from home so to speak in ways.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on September 21, 2017, 07:53:16 AM
sdconventionctr Our building superintendent takes you 85 feet high above @sdconventionctr #SailsPavilion to check out the view from the "open air" #construction site. #hardhatrequired #sandiego #bayfront #conventioncenter @thecityofsandiego @iavm #iBank

https://www.instagram.com/p/BZMDx-nBi8O/?taken-by=sdconventionctr
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Angel_ on September 25, 2017, 12:36:37 PM
It's so weird seeing Sails without sails.  It'll be be nice to have new ones though!  I think those same ones have been on there since the 70's?  I was typically too distracted by all the amazing stuff happening around me to look UP at the sails, but I've seen pictures of how stained and ripped they were.  Gross. Much needed upgrade.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on September 25, 2017, 12:37:58 PM
I wonder if the new sails will look the same as the old ones, or be different in some way?
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on September 26, 2017, 06:36:16 AM
http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/tourism/sd-fi-convention-expansion-20170925-story.html

(bold = mine)

Quote
San Diego tourism and business leaders are working aggressively on a renewed effort to finance a convention center expansion with a hike in the hotel room tax that would be put before voters next June. The prospect of getting what would be a citizens initiative on the ballot will depend heavily on the willingness of organized labor and community groups, including advocates for the homeless, to sign on to the effort. The measure being considered would include funding for both an expansion of the bayfront center, as well as homeless services. It is also possible that money for road improvements would be covered but no firm decisions have been made.

Among the local stakeholders represented in multiple meetings are hotel industry executives, San Diego Building & Construction Trades Council, the hotel workers union, the San Diego Downtown Partnership and groups advocating for the homeless and social justice. Although the measure is being pushed as a citizens initiative, a staffer with Mayor Kevin Faulconer’s office has been present in at least one meeting, although a mayoral spokeswoman said that any staffer who participates is doing so using personal vacation leave. “Mayor Faulconer included homeless funding in his 2017 ballot measure because he recognized that San Diego needs more funding now to help tackle our homeless crisis,” said a statement Monday from the mayor’s office. “Unfortunately, the past several months have proven the mayor to be right.”

Earlier this year, Faulconer tried, unsuccessfully, to persuade the City Council to hold a special election this November to consider a hotel room tax increase. His proposal would have boosted the tax by 1 to 3 percentage points, with nearly two-thirds of the $5 billion raised over 40 years going toward financing an expanded convention center costing as much as $685 million. The balance of the tax revenues were to be split evenly between funding programs to reduce homelessness and tackling street repairs. At the time, that proposal generated considerable opposition from homeless advocates who argued far too little money was set aside for a problem that had reached crisis proportions.

Not only are hoteliers and tourism leaders facing a tight timeline for qualifying a measure for the June ballot, but they are also having to overcome some resistance from community advocacy groups, such as Alliance San Diego, which describes itself as a community empowerment organization. “Every time the mayor ties a homelessness response to the convention center, he belies his true priorities and fails to lead,” the group said in a blog post Monday. “The homelessness crisis requires an immediate response that is focused and meaningful, and is not tied to an election on an issue that has nothing to do with the crisis.” Alliance San Diego also pointed to Measure L, passed by voters last year, that requires citizens initiatives and referendums to be voted on in higher turnout elections in November. The City Council, though, has the latitude to override that.

Still, backers of a June ballot measure feel buoyed by a recent state Supreme Court ruling that appears to make it easier to pass tax increases for special purposes. Ordinarily, such measures would require a two-thirds majority vote, but the court ruling concluded that a super majority requirement does not apply to citizens initiatives. While it is still not entirely clear whether only a simple majority is needed to pass a citizens initiative seeking a tax increase, backers of the expansion believe it gives them a narrow window for advancing a June measure. Those participating in current talks have been unwilling to speak on the record about their negotiations for a June measure, which they say has still not been hammered out. Laura Fink, a spokeswoman for the group, issued a statement reinforcing the collaborative nature of the meetings. “Community, business and labor coming together in conversation is a great thing for San Diego,” Fink said. “The hope of everyone involved is to find common ground and work together.”

Joe Terzi, CEO of the San Diego Tourism Authority and a big booster for a convention center expansion, said he has been briefed on talks and remains hopeful that backers can qualify an initiative in time for the June ballot. The lodging industry will get a fuller briefing on Tuesday, he said. “I’m just very encouraged as to where we are,” he said. “It’s a collaborative discussion and this is the first time in a while where people who have a stake in this are at the table working collaboratively. There are some very intensive discussions taking place, and everyone has their own issues, but I think you’ll see that will coalesce around getting the initiative on the June ballot.” Gil Cabrera, vice chairman of the San Diego Convention Center Corp. board, said he, too, is aware of ongoing discussions about a citizens initiative and believes there are still points of contention being worked out around the allocation of funding for the homeless, as well as bringing labor on board. “There is also a fundamental discussion about whether you should put an expansion on the same ballot as homeless funding,” he said. “The advocates would rather have their own initiative standing alone.”

No matter what happens, backers of a convention center expansion still face another major hurdle. The site where the expansion would go is controlled by longtime Port of San Diego tenants Ray Carpenter and Art Engel, who are processing plans to build a $300 million hotel project on their leasehold. “We’re watching this closely and depending on how they proceed will determine how we react to a project that has no real estate,” said Carpenter. “I think this is a self-serving move by the hoteliers to eliminate competition.” Terzi noted that if an initiative is drafted, the hotel owners and operators have committed to help fund most of the costs of a signature-gathering campaign, which could amount to as much as $400,000, he said.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: cabler30 on September 26, 2017, 11:55:02 AM
I know they extended the contract time for con to stay here till year like 2020 if i rememebr right, cause first it was only till 2018 but knew they was gonna loose alot bank if let it just move without a solid fite and all. As they say - Action speaks louder then words - so they need to get past all the bs and get results if they wanna keep the con here forever so to speak. they can have so many meetings to say what has to happen or wanna happen, but untill they start doing then it all just wasted time meeting and words in the wind so to speak.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Iris on September 29, 2017, 01:58:37 PM
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Worth a note though if I'm not mistaken, SDCC has said in the past that they believe the size (size of attendees etc.) is about the maximum they can and want to handle at the current size without affecting the experience poorly. So I imagine SDCC mainly wants the upgrades/updates to the convention etc. itself. I think the main sticking point for them is the hotels issue for now.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: cabler30 on September 30, 2017, 12:24:49 PM
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[member=6880]cabler30[/member]

Worth a note though if I'm not mistaken, SDCC has said in the past that they believe the size (size of attendees etc.) is about the maximum they can and want to handle at the current size without affecting the experience poorly. So I imagine SDCC mainly wants the upgrades/updates to the convention etc. itself. I think the main sticking point for them is the hotels issue for now.

So guessing wont be no expansion of the center itself like no remving walls any just the insides are being updated or what not. then hotels just gotta make space to have enough rooms open to be rented or used for the con at time. this all just what i see and understand most.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Iris on September 30, 2017, 02:11:34 PM
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So guessing wont be no expansion of the center itself like no remving walls any just the insides are being updated or what not. then hotels just gotta make space to have enough rooms open to be rented or used for the con at time. this all just what i see and understand most.

It might be an expansion still, but I'm not sure they'd be interested in more attendees than 120,000/day, as it is now.

We'll see how hotel negotiations/renegotiations go too and any new hotels (ie. Pendry, Hotel Z, etc.)
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: cabler30 on October 01, 2017, 12:38:43 PM
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It might be an expansion still, but I'm not sure they'd be interested in more attendees than 120,000/day, as it is now.

We'll see how hotel negotiations/renegotiations go too and any new hotels (ie. Pendry, Hotel Z, etc.)

I see what u mean, i use to go years back and recent had chance to go this year as volunteer. thankful they have all the help they get to help manage the traffic cause from what i see it alot worst now then years ago lol. i noticed that alot different stuff adds to the hassles in more ways then one as well. so heres hoping all goes right so they are here beyond what is already said .
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on October 17, 2017, 11:35:55 PM
Not so fast slow:

From http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/tourism/sd-fi-fifthavenue-lawsuit-20171016-story.html

Quote
The developer of a $300 million hotel complex planned for the same bayfront site as a proposed convention center expansion has filed suit against the city of San Diego, claiming that it is interfering with its contractual right to move forward with its project. The lawsuit, which also names the San Diego Convention Center Corp., is asking for a court order that would effectively bar the city and the corporation from continuing to pursue an expansion of the center on land they do not control.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: cabler30 on October 18, 2017, 03:45:00 PM
All this expansion talk, atleast when comic con is here that everyone knows ur not gonna want to stay in the convention center the whole day since so much to do around the place through the week of the event. and with the rfid badge scan in and out process, i guess it helps them get some idea of how many or how much traffic is by chance inside at any given time. i guess kinda like going to a mall lol, how many hours do u really spend inside any given day lol. same for the con, how many hours does anyone really stay inside any given time ea day. i seen how some areas can get clogged cause of something everyone try see and check out lol, but it eventually starts to unclog when security or staff cruize around and basically tell traffic to move at any given time lol. if it wasnt for staff telling traffic to move along then i hate to see what happens when chaos erupts any and not allowed to fun lol.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: citizenmilton on October 19, 2017, 01:55:40 PM
Am I being a complete dunce again or isn't the solution here bleedingly obvious?

TEAM 5TH AVE: "WE WANT A HOTEL!"

TEAM CONV CTR: "WE WANT AN EXPANSION"

CON ATTENDEES: "UH WE KINDA NEED BOTH RIGHT?"

There's likely multimillion dollar architectural firms drawing up plans for both sides, maybe even with nice models to demonstrate their visions. I wish they held dueling press conferences unveiling their master plans at the same time, and I'd just roll up into the hotel team's presentation, steal their hotel model, walk over to the convention center expansion team's presentation, stick the hotel model on top of the convention center expansion model, put on some duct tape to hold them together, voila, here's your new master plan.

Kidding aside, isn't a compromise in every party's interest? Why chart a path towards years of more delays, years of more litigation, when everyone could make more profits sooner just by working together?

Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Angel_ on October 19, 2017, 02:13:10 PM
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Am I being a complete dunce again or isn't the solution here bleedingly obvious?

TEAM 5TH AVE: "WE WANT A HOTEL!"

TEAM CONV CTR: "WE WANT AN EXPANSION"

CON ATTENDEES: "UH WE KINDA NEED BOTH RIGHT?"

There's likely multimillion dollar architectural firms drawing up plans for both sides, maybe even with nice models to demonstrate their visions. I wish they held dueling press conferences unveiling their master plans at the same time, and I'd just roll up into the hotel team's presentation, steal their hotel model, walk over to the convention center expansion team's presentation, stick the hotel model on top of the convention center expansion model, put on some duct tape to hold them together, voila, here's your new master plan.

Kidding aside, isn't a compromise in every party's interest? Why chart a path towards years of more delays, years of more litigation, when everyone could make more profits sooner just by working together?

I would pay money to see LITERALLY dueling press conferences with like swords and stuff.

HOTEL *lunges with sword*
EXPANSION *parries*

(I'm not a sword person. My terminology is way off I know)
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: cabler30 on October 19, 2017, 02:45:14 PM
Not really sure where they gonna expand to really if from what i have read that some space close by is owned by somebody else and they just sitting on the land till like dooms day i guess or till they wanna sell the part of land they own to the highest bidder i guess if that ever happens later.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on October 19, 2017, 03:37:07 PM
Sad thing is, the original expansion plan called for a significant expansion of the Hilton Bayfront, and having it *attached* to the expanded convention center!
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: cabler30 on October 19, 2017, 06:31:35 PM
I try to vision how they can attach it like say a bridge kinda expansion maybe? not sure how else but was just an option i can see off hand.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Michaelnaut on October 20, 2017, 05:53:15 AM
Transformer hotel!  It's a convention center!  It's a hotel!  It's a convention center that transforms into a hotel!  And back again!

Would it be the start of a new class of transformers?  Call them 'Hotelicons'?  Folks meet 'Bayfrontron'!

OK, I think there's waaaaaaaay too much caffeine in my DD coffee today...
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on October 20, 2017, 09:16:41 AM
I like the way you're thinking, Michael!
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Iris on October 20, 2017, 04:29:25 PM
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Am I being a complete dunce again or isn't the solution here bleedingly obvious?

TEAM 5TH AVE: "WE WANT A HOTEL!"

TEAM CONV CTR: "WE WANT AN EXPANSION"

CON ATTENDEES: "UH WE KINDA NEED BOTH RIGHT?"

There's likely multimillion dollar architectural firms drawing up plans for both sides, maybe even with nice models to demonstrate their visions. I wish they held dueling press conferences unveiling their master plans at the same time, and I'd just roll up into the hotel team's presentation, steal their hotel model, walk over to the convention center expansion team's presentation, stick the hotel model on top of the convention center expansion model, put on some duct tape to hold them together, voila, here's your new master plan.

Kidding aside, isn't a compromise in every party's interest? Why chart a path towards years of more delays, years of more litigation, when everyone could make more profits sooner just by working together?

One would hope they can find a compromise. But honestly, in my experience when an organization, especially a big hotel company/etc., has already poured funds and often years in getting their plan up to scratch to be officially presented... they're unlikely to want to budge at all. I'm not sure how long the company has been planning the hotel on that site though. All I know is that the convention expansion has gone through years of constant litigation and planning.

Especially considering it looks like Fifth Ave. has the current contract to lease from SD for the land in question, which'll be a big contract dispute now. I'm curious as to the terms for the contract with Port of San Diego now... because it is generally a government agency, as far as I know, so I wouldn't be surprised if they have a general power to do what they think is best for the area in terms of breaking a lease at least before the building officially starts...

[member=6880]cabler30[/member]

I might be mistaken... but I'm pretty sure the property that both side want to build on is in fact owned by the city. It's managed by the Port of San Diego and basically various areas lease the land to use for their businesses. I'm not sure if corporations etc. are allowed to outright by the land. So I'm pretty sure the land is owned by the SD government, a third-party obvious, it's just that... I think after the initial expansion looked super far off from being approved whoever (I assume CCI) let the lease fall off for the land and then Fifth Avenue Landing contracted with PoSD to lease the land.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on November 07, 2017, 11:11:03 AM
From https://visitsandiego.com/2017/11/progress-report-whats-new-sails-pavilion

Quote
Progress Report: What's New in the Sails Pavilion

Another milestone has been met in the ongoing renovation and enhancement of one San Diego's most iconic locations. The original blue colored steel masts that had held up the Sails Pavilion roof since 1989 have been removed and replaced with the "next generation" that will hold up the brand new roof. A total of 10 masts were carefully removed from their position 30 feet above the exhibit floor. They serve to support the roof, and their removal required a delicate balancing act. President & CEO Rip Rippetoe called this part of the capital improvement project of the 90,000 sq. ft. exhibit space a huge achievement, noting "This is the point where we are truly out with the old and in with the new." The new masts are now white and will support the new fabric roof which is expected to be put into place in December. Here's a fun fact: as part of our sustainability goals, the steel masts were able to be recycled, a total weight of 63,900 pounds. That's about the weight of two anchors on Disney Cruise Ship (which sails out of the Port of San Diego!)

The $10.5 million renovation process began in late September. The project is a collaborative effort between several project partners including Birdair, Baker Electric, Kinsman Construction, Siemens, American Scaffold, Smart Safety and Barnhart-Reese. "We have aquired the top talent in the tension-structure industry on this capital project," said Karen Totaro, Executive Vice President and General Manager of the San Diego Convention Center. "Their work is well known across the globe, which is critical for this caliber of an iconic roof and the San Diego Region." The overall look of the second-generation fabric Sails roof (made of PTFE - teflon coated fiberglass fabric) will remain the same as the original roof.

https://youtu.be/LShqsU7N-yw
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on December 13, 2017, 09:53:52 PM
sdconventionctr BIG DAY! The first new panel of our renovated Sails Pavilion is going into place. The entire process should take about 6 to 8 weeks.

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bck4OEUBr66/?taken-by=sdconventionctr
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on December 22, 2017, 10:20:12 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/NMDe2wNt.gif)

https://www.voiceofsandiego.org/topics/politics/joint-labor-business-group-preparing-2018-convention-center-ballot-measure/
Quote
Power-brokers and labor leaders are laying the groundwork for a citizens’ initiative to hike hotel taxes and expand the Convention Center. They haven’t cut a deal yet but appear to be preparing for a 2018 ballot measure that would rely on a hotel-tax increase to raise cash for Convention Center construction plus homelessness initiatives and road repairs. Two potential names for the effort have also surfaced in recent exchanges with city officials.

Pasadena-based attorney Michael Colantuono, who represents the city and San Diego’s Tourism Marketing District, asked the city for the go-ahead to also represent a group known as Yes for a Better San Diego, in a letter obtained by Voice of San Diego. In an earlier note, he referred to the group as Citizens for a Better San Diego. Colantuono, a prominent lawyer who leads the State Bar Association, described Yes for a Better San Diego in a Dec. 13 letter to the city as a group that “will soon propose an initiative ordinance of the city to impose a hotel bed tax to fund a Convention Center expansion, homeless services and road maintenance services.” Colantuono didn’t elaborate on what the measure will entail and those in negotiations won’t either. His request to represent the group has yet to be approved by the city, and he did not return messages. He needed to request permission to represent the group because he has worked with the city and there’s been discussion of at least one other ballot measure, which might pose a conflict of interest. But the attorney’s communications with city attorney’s office offer a window into the work happening behind the scenes. Tourism, business and union leaders have continued to try to hash out an agreement on a 2018 ballot measure they can all back.

They’re not saying much about it. Among those who’ve continued to discuss possibilities are representatives from the Chamber of Commerce, the San Diego and Imperial Counties Labor Council,  hotel workers’ union Unite Here Local 30, the local Building and Construction Trades Council and prominent hotel executives Robert Gleason and Mike McDowell. Nearly all referred comments on the measure to spokeswoman Laura Fink, who would only say San Diegans should stay tuned in the new year. McDowell did not respond to messages from VOSD. “Our diverse group looks forward to the launch of significant plans for San Diego’s future in 2018,” Fink wrote in an email. Others previously involved in the negotiations confirmed they are no longer attending meetings. Homeless advocate Michael McConnell, leaders for the refugee advocacy group Partnership for the Advancement of New Americans and land-use consultant Joe LaCava all said they’re no longer at the table. Fink did not respond to questions about the makeup of the ballot measure or the group trying to hash out a deal. Nor did she specify when a proposal might be unveiled, or if there are other measures the group might support.

For example, affordable housing advocacy group San Diego Housing Federation is floating a November 2018 citizens’ initiative to increase property taxes and fund thousands of new homes. City Councilman David Alvarez has also pitched a measure that would invest increases in hotel-tax hauls over the next 20 years in homelessness needs. A measure similar to the one Colantuono described in his letter pushed by Mayor Kevin Faulconer fell apart last year amid outcry from labor and other voices that the proposal didn’t invest enough in addressing San Diego’s homeless crisis and ran afoul of two ballot measures that aimed to hold elections when more voters go to the polls. It’s not clear how closely their pitch will match Faulconer’s failed effort this year. His proposal planned to invest more than 60 percent of proceeds in the first 10 years to Convention Center construction and about 18 percent each to homelessness and road repairs, a breakdown that wasn’t palatable to unions now at the negotiating table with hoteliers. City Council Democrats ultimately refused to put the measure on the November 2017 ballot. After Faulconer’s measure fizzled, the business community decided to proceed with a citizens’ initiative.

Early on, power-brokers decided labor’s support would be crucial to any measure’s success. Then a blockbuster court decision suggested citizens’ initiatives in the state could pass with a simple majority of voters’ support, instead of two-thirds. A spokeswoman for Faulconer, who has for years advocated for a Convention Center expansion, said the mayor’s looking on rather than leading ballot measure discussions this go-round. “He is monitoring the work of various groups closely and he applauds these stakeholders for making these issues a top priority,” spokeswoman Christina Chadwick wrote in an email. Keith Maddox, a national representative of the AFL-CIO who’s currently leading the Labor Council, said his group has been in and out of the negotiations but is hopeful a deal can be reached soon. Maddox said his group supports a Convention Center expansion but has focused much of its more recent advocacy on housing issues. That applies to the Convention Center measure too — and his group isn’t ready to sign off just yet. “It’s not quite there. Hopefully there will be something in the very near future,” Maddox said. “Everyone wants to make sure that it’s right for San Diego and right for everyone.”
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: cabler30 on December 23, 2017, 11:25:51 AM
I am still not sure how they gonna expand besides do upgrades to the place and try take anyones land to expand out any if it ever happens. I guess unless they found land that no body owned with a boat load of space to build a new one and make it twice the size or just alot bigger then what they already got. they want big or huge events that will bring in alot bank of course, but not sure how they gonna do it cause of all the past hassles they have dealt with already.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on December 29, 2017, 07:49:29 AM
From http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/tourism/sd-fi-hotel-convention-20171229-story.html

Quote
The fate of a proposal to develop hundreds of new hotel rooms on the bay side of the San Diego convention center will be determined early next year by port commissioners.

The project, known as Fifth Avenue Landing, reached a key milestone this month, with the release of a nearly 1,000-page environmental analysis.

The $300 million project is planned for a five-acre site coveted by backers of a plan to expand the convention center.

A coalition of tourism and business leaders are hoping to qualify for next November’s ballot a measure that would raise the hotel tax to pay for the expansion, plus fund homeless services and road repairs.

The required environmental impact report for the proposed 44-story, 840-room hotel says it will have slightly greater impacts on public views and traffic than an expansion of the convention center.

The board of commissioners of the San Diego Unified Port District expect to consider the project and its environmental impact report in April.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: cabler30 on December 29, 2017, 06:09:09 PM
Seeing the pictures in the article after reading the quote, it looks be a hotel like behind the center but kinda center in back around the boats or yachts if they are that in back. hard part if it gonna be out in the waters then they gotta anchor it somehow since not on land really. guessing it gonna cause a bank load more to do out in waters then just on land where u have the ground to anchor it easier in ways.  i might be wrong, but just how i see it to be so far.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on January 08, 2018, 12:51:47 PM
https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/Citizens-Initiative-Revives-Push-for-Convention-Center-Expansion-468345033.html

Quote
A new citizens' initiative launched Monday is renewing calls to expand downtown San Diego’s convention center. Leaders from across local industries such as business, tourism and labor met to discuss the initiative, as part of a group known as Yes for a Better San Diego. They are working to get voter approval on a tourism tax increase to bankroll the expansion project. Similarly to the SoccerCity proposal, the group will collect registered voters' signatures in the hope of gathering enough to put the proposed tax on the ballot. Supporters have said the expansion of the Convention Center will help grow San Diego’s economy and maintain major tourism-boosting events like the pop culture extravaganza Comic-Con.

"This expansion drives our economy. This expansion will create jobs," Jaymie Bradford said, the Executive Vice President and Chief Operating Officer of the San Diego Regional Chamber of Commerce. "And importantly, it provides a significant funding stream for homelessness." Profits from the project would help alleviate homelessness and support road repairs and infrastructure in San Diego. The group said the initiative would not allow the city to reduce expenditures on current programs supporting homeless individuals. "So this is a huge need in terms of the homeless and in terms of our low-income working families," Carol Kim said, the political director of the San Diego County Building and Construction Trades Council. "And even our moderate-income working families. There's a real need there as well."

According to the group, this plan is expected to bring in billions of dollars for the local economy and create thousands of new permanent jobs.

https://twitter.com/nbcsandiego/status/950471898051366912
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: cabler30 on January 08, 2018, 01:13:19 PM
Besides what we already seen and they keep saying it seems fund for homeless and all. how they gonna expand besides just adding another hotel into area. we know so many try to go to the con every year and only so many can go do to safety and all. lucky for offsites which help keep rotation going so everyone does not feel gotta be inside the whole day unless u try to do and see alot like everyone else does.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on January 24, 2018, 08:25:34 PM
https://youtu.be/MVgMYHx4mtI
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on January 29, 2018, 04:36:02 PM
https://www.instagram.com/p/Bei5Q7chlN1/?taken-by=sdconventionctr
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Iris on January 30, 2018, 12:00:15 PM
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I am still not sure how they gonna expand besides do upgrades to the place and try take anyones land to expand out any if it ever happens. I guess unless they found land that no body owned with a boat load of space to build a new one and make it twice the size or just alot bigger then what they already got. they want big or huge events that will bring in alot bank of course, but not sure how they gonna do it cause of all the past hassles they have dealt with already.

I haven't read the most recent updates etc. but the land that the potential new hotel and the Convention Center are both eyeing is actually managed by the city, if I'm not completely wrong on that. From what I understand, it's technically city land governed by the... SD Port Authority/Port of San Diego, established by the California government. So, basically there would be a contract to lease the land for x years and it would be renewed as needed. Basically, there are tons of businesses, restaurants, hotels, etc. down there that basically have long-term contracts to lease the land they use from the Port of SD.

Part of the issue is that I believe the convention center (or CCI, I can't quite remember) DID have a lease of the land in particular for a few years, at least, while the the expansion was still trying to get approval. They let the lease lapse though, probably because it was taking years, and that hotel company currently has the lease, so there's a dispute over whether the Post of SD can legally break that contract to allow the expansion of the center go through instead after it gets approved for funding.

I meant to reply to this ages ago, when I saw your comment first, but I was so busy with work and school I kept forgetting, my apologies!
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on January 30, 2018, 01:59:15 PM
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https://www.instagram.com/p/Bei5Q7chlN1/?taken-by=sdconventionctr

AzT, I don't understand this video. Why are they pouring water all over the Sails floor?
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on January 30, 2018, 04:05:19 PM
https://www.facebook.com/SDConventionCenter/posts/10155009240562511

Quote
Upgrades and improvements continue each week inside the San Diego Convention Center. Not only is the roof inside our iconic Sails Pavilion new, but so is the fire suppression system. Newly installed water cannons were tested out inside the Sails on Monday. Learn more about this and other building upgrades on our website: https://visitsandiego.com/capital-improvement-projects #infrastructure #capitalimprovements California Infrastructure and Economic Development Bank - IBank
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on January 30, 2018, 06:46:41 PM
Okay.... but it still seems silly to flood the Sails, even for a test...
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: cabler30 on January 30, 2018, 07:57:04 PM
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I haven't read the most recent updates etc. but the land that the potential new hotel and the Convention Center are both eyeing is actually managed by the city, if I'm not completely wrong on that. From what I understand, it's technically city land governed by the... SD Port Authority/Port of San Diego, established by the California government. So, basically there would be a contract to lease the land for x years and it would be renewed as needed. Basically, there are tons of businesses, restaurants, hotels, etc. down there that basically have long-term contracts to lease the land they use from the Port of SD.

Part of the issue is that I believe the convention center (or CCI, I can't quite remember) DID have a lease of the land in particular for a few years, at least, while the the expansion was still trying to get approval. They let the lease lapse though, probably because it was taking years, and that hotel company currently has the lease, so there's a dispute over whether the Post of SD can legally break that contract to allow the expansion of the center go through instead after it gets approved for funding.

I meant to reply to this ages ago, when I saw your comment first, but I was so busy with work and school I kept forgetting, my apologies!

Np, we all get busy and try respond at time we see something we see needs an answer if possible. if anything sometime later stuff will happen and go as they show or will change for any reason.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: force951 on January 31, 2018, 09:43:32 AM
https://www.voiceofsandiego.org/topics/government/new-convention-center-measure-accommodate-union-supported-bayfront-hotel/

Quote
The new measure accommodates them. Drafted with Mayor Kevin Faulconer’s failed one in mind, it tweaked the definition of the Convention Center itself to extend up to the railroad tracks along Harbor Drive rather than south of Harbor Drive. This means workers could conceivably build an expansion up to or even across Harbor Drive, replacing the current outdoor driveway and indoor lobby space with exhibit halls. Convention space could replace or transform Harbor Drive between Fifth Avenue and Park Boulevard
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on February 22, 2018, 12:19:18 PM
sdconventionctr #nofilterneeded We have proudly debuted our latest enhancement to an already iconic exhibit space: our #SailsPavilionLiggts are up and running! These are the same LED fixtures used to light the Empire State Building!

https://www.instagram.com/p/BfguFe9BOR4/?taken-by=sdconventionctr
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: jimy on February 23, 2018, 09:40:42 AM
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sdconventionctr #nofilterneeded We have proudly debuted our latest enhancement to an already iconic exhibit space: our #SailsPavilionLiggts are up and running! These are the same LED fixtures used to light the Empire State Building!

https://www.instagram.com/p/BfguFe9BOR4/?taken-by=sdconventionctr

Wow, just wow, that's really awesome looking... although for the cost not something I'll really appreciate as much as something like the comfy chairs in Hall H, could they have done something better with the money? Maybe this is really great for conventions other than CCI.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on March 30, 2018, 07:49:38 AM
http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/tourism/sd-fi-convention-fifth-landing-20180330-story.html (bold = mine)

Quote
As backers of an expanded convention center push forward with a November initiative to finance the project, behind-the-scenes efforts are ramping up to overcome one of the development’s key challenges: control of the waterfront site. At issue is a $300 million hotel project planned for the same site as the convention center expansion, which city tourism leaders and Mayor Kevin Faulconer have been pushing for years. The expansion, though, has been on a collision course with the Fifth Avenue Landing hotel project, whose developers control the five-acre state tidelands site via a lease that is not due to expire until 2024. Last year the Fifth Avenue Landing leasehold filed suit against the city and Convention Center Corp., claiming that they were interfering with its contractual right to move forward with its project, which would be built on the back side of the center.

Twice in the last month, though, scheduled court hearings on the city’s motion to dismiss the suit have been continued at the parties’ request. The most recent continuance was Wednesday. In addition, San Diego port commissioners, who oversee the state tidelands properties, have had three closed-door sessions in the last month to discuss “price and terms” of the bayfront parcels under lease to Fifth Avenue Landing. The negotiating parties, according to the closed-session agendas, include Art Engel and Ray Carpenter, longtime port tenants who hold the Fifth Avenue Landing lease. Meanwhile, consideration of the hotel project, which was expected to go before port commissioners next month, will not be on the April agenda. Late last year, the environmental analysis for the project was completed, clearing the way for consideration by the port and eventually the California Coastal Commission. The confluence of recent events suggests that talks are intensifying to reach a financial settlement with Fifth Avenue Landing for returning control of the site to the convention center.

"This property is vital to the completion of the convention center expansion project and continued growth of San Diego's tourism economy,” Matt Awbrey, Faulconer’s deputy chief of staff, said Thursday. “Discussions are being had by all relevant parties under litigation through mediation. We will not comment further on pending litigation at this time." Officials with the port and Convention Center Corp. also declined to comment on the ongoing negotiations. Gil Cabrera, who chairs the convention center board, noted that the corporation remains interested in regaining control of the expansion site, regardless of whether the center gets enlarged. The top priority, though, remains the expansion, he stressed. “Our clients often utilize the space for various things, for storage, event space, they’ll build tents back there,” Cabrera said. “Each time, Fifth Avenue Landing has to agree to do it and sometimes they may or may not want to do that. I'm always hopeful that we can come to a resolution on all these issues, and the recent activity makes me hopeful.” Should there be a financial settlement, it is unclear where the funds would come from.

The lease held by Carpenter and Engel requires that they submit plans for a hotel of at least 400 rooms comparable in quality to other bayfront properties. In addition to an 830-room, four-star hotel rising 44 stories, Fifth Avenue Landing’s proposal calls for two acres of public plazas, open-air cafes along the bayfront promenade, an expansive rooftop garden plaza and a second hotel catering to budget-minded guests. Until almost three years ago, the Convention Center Corp. had control over the Fifth Avenue Landing site but opted to back out of a deal it struck in 2010 to acquire the leasehold at a cost of $13.5 million as part of its plans to enlarge the convention center. But the expansion project fell apart after an appellate court ruled in 2014 that the plan to finance it with a hotelier-approved room tax hike was unconstitutional.

A coalition of business leaders, hoteliers, labor unions and homeless advocates are backing a November ballot initiative that would hike the city’s hotel room tax to help pay for an expanded center costing as much as $850 million, as well as boost funding for the homeless and road repairs. The campaign group, Yes! for a Better San Diego, is currently circulating petitions in hopes of qualifying the measure for the November ballot. In its lawsuit against the city, Fifth Avenue Landing asserts that continued efforts to push a convention center expansion are a "direct breach" of a lease agreement it has governing the project site. In a legal brief supporting its motion to dismiss the suit, the Convention Center Corp. claims that the Fifth Avenue Landing case “relies on the faulty premise that (the corporation and city) were contractually obligated to forever refrain from seeking to expand the Convention Center onto the public tidelands property or from even speaking about it.” No contract, says the corporation, contains any such restriction on efforts to seek an expansion.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on April 10, 2018, 04:11:30 PM
More charging stations, yes!

https://twitter.com/GilCabrera/status/983738603619495937
Quote
You’ll be noticing more of these charging stations throughout @SDConventionCtr lobbies. #SDCC
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: cciveg on April 23, 2018, 01:13:41 PM
One area that I have never seen addressed in any of the expansion plans is the dire lack of elevators to get upstairs. Anyone who has used a wheelchair, scooter, or stroller can attest to this. Long lines are standard for people trying to get around. And number of people needing elevators is only going to go up. And this isn't including the vendors who are constantly moving up and down to keep the cookies and pretzels in stock. You would think there are separate service elevators but they must be too far away. Last year, there was a guy with a huge cart of cookies and things who demanded to cut ahead of the wheelchairs and strollers.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Kevin Rutan on April 25, 2018, 09:34:35 AM
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One area that I have never seen addressed in any of the expansion plans is the dire lack of elevators to get upstairs. Anyone who has used a wheelchair, scooter, or stroller can attest to this. Long lines are standard for people trying to get around. And number of people needing elevators is only going to go up. And this isn't including the vendors who are constantly moving up and down to keep the cookies and pretzels in stock. You would think there are separate service elevators but they must be too far away. Last year, there was a guy with a huge cart of cookies and things who demanded to cut ahead of the wheelchairs and strollers.

Unfortunately all convention centers seem to stick with the least amount of elevators mandated for their size by law and that probably isn't going to change.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: cabler30 on April 25, 2018, 11:46:24 AM
Guessing as time changes and more has to change or be done to make easier for those who need them to get around may call the center and ask why they not ad another or 2. for reals i wonder if they can be sued or have ever been sued for not making changes for disabled people who attend conventions for any event. all they gotta do is check prints and see where one or to can be added so not everyone gotta wait for one at any given time. and for the vendor to make others wait should have planned ahead so wasnt such an ass about having to be first at anytime.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on May 17, 2018, 01:51:12 PM
"Everybody knows us because of Comic-Con"

https://www.facebook.com/SDConventionCenter/posts/10155253459417511
Quote
Our President & CEO Rip Rippetoe talked all things "convention center" on BISTalk Radio, including the economic "ripple effect" of the #meetings & #convention industry in the City of San Diego & how it benefits the region. We invite you to take a read & a listen!

https://omny.fm/shows/bistalk-radio/5-11-18-bistalk-radio-clifford-rip-rippetoe (CCI specific, 7:10 - 11:00, expansion 27:00 - 30:00)
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: cabler30 on May 17, 2018, 08:05:00 PM
Cool audio to listen to and understand how they do try to host and expand as they can over time. and seeing the fb page picture or any pic of the center outside that u would think they have a ton of space , but when u see all the traffic that comic con gets every year that the center would fill so fast if they didnt have any of the offsite events or attractions to check out at any given time of the comic con event for the week.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on May 23, 2018, 10:29:27 AM
https://twitter.com/SDConventionCtr/status/999005636716187648

Quote
We launched our newest attendee amenity at #ATS2018: Digital Signage showing @SanDiegoAirport real-time flight info. Get live departure/arrival details and gate numbers. Located in Lobby E. Another way we're improving the @SDConventionCtr experience! @atscommunity @IAVMWHQ
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Miss Kitty on May 24, 2018, 07:37:33 PM
http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/tourism/sd-fi-convention-center-settlement-20180524-story,amp.html?__twitter_impression=true
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: cabler30 on May 24, 2018, 08:11:46 PM
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http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/tourism/sd-fi-convention-center-settlement-20180524-story,amp.html?__twitter_impression=true

I am guessing at some point if all does not got right, then there will be too many hotels to have the center expand how they wanna do so. they know the center needs more space, but just too much bs and money it takes is just dragging it out which seems like forever lol. i really dont think they need another hotel, cause they really need to expand more.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: SamTurtledove on May 24, 2018, 09:58:20 PM
Yeah. No more Pendrys we can't get into!
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on June 07, 2018, 12:43:50 PM
From http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/tourism/sd-fi-fal-convention-deal-20180606-story.html

Quote
A deal obligating the city and the Port of San Diego to pay up to $33.2 million to regain control of a bayfront site needed to expand the city’s convention center will be formally considered by both entities next week.

Details of the payout, part of a complicated deal negotiated over a period of eight months, are contained in documents prepared in advance of a planned Tuesday hearing before the City Council. That same day, San Diego Port Commissioners will also be asked to approve the settlement — a three-way deal between the city; the port, which oversees the leased tidelands site; and longtime port tenants Ray Carpenter and Art Engel, who have been working on plans for a $300 million hotel project on the five-acre waterfront parcel that they currently control. The full payout, including an upfront payment of $5 million by the port, is still dependent on the outcome of a citizens’ initiative planned for the November ballot that would finance an expansion of up to $850 million with revenues generated by an increase in the city’s hotel room tax.

A coalition of business leaders, hoteliers, labor unions and homeless advocates are expecting to turn in by the middle of this month more than 100,000 signatures for the measure, which calls for raising the city's effective hotel room tax of 12.5 percent to as much as 15.75 percent. The revenues from that tax hike would cover not only the expansion, which would enlarge the center by 400,000 square feet of rentable space, but also help underwrite the cost of services and housing for the homeless, as well as pay for road repairs. Some of those tax revenues would also cover most of the proposed $33.2 million payout to Fifth Avenue Landing, the leasehold controlled by Carpenter and Engel. As part of the proposed deal, the current term of the lease, due to expire in 2024, would be extended 18 years, and control would be turned over to the city.

Updated: https://www.sandiego.gov/mayor/news/releases/fact-sheet-settlement-reached-secure-land-expand-and-modernize-san-diego-convention

Quote
San Diego – A three-party agreement has been reached for the City of San Diego to secure long-term control of the land needed to expand and modernize the San Diego Convention Center using voter-approved funding. With control of this site, the City has the opportunity to realize its long-standing goal to grow the regional economy by attracting more tourism activity with a modern convention facility.

KEY POINTS OF THE AGREEMENT
The settlement agreement between the City of San Diego, Port of San Diego and Fifth Avenue Landing LLC (FAL) generally calls for two scenarios to proceed contingent upon the passage of the citizens’ initiative on the November 2018 ballot.

If the citizens’ initiative passes:

Port will purchase the existing leasehold from FAL for approximately $33 million (Ahead of the November 2018 election, the Port will make an initial non-refundable payment of approximately $5 million toward that amount)
The City will purchase a new leasehold from the Port with an 18-year extension through 2042 for a price of $28 million, funded with revenue from the citizens’ initiative
These transactions will be made in three concurrent installments over the course of 2019


If the citizens’ initiative does not pass:

The City reimburses the Port for the approximately $5 million down payment to FAL, paid for by money set aside in the City’s public liability fund for resolving litigation
FAL can seek Port approval of a hotel project at the site
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: cabler30 on June 07, 2018, 03:14:11 PM
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From http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/tourism/sd-fi-fal-convention-deal-20180606-story.html

Updated: https://www.sandiego.gov/mayor/news/releases/fact-sheet-settlement-reached-secure-land-expand-and-modernize-san-diego-convention

Read through about the deal and they still wanna build another hotel in an area already saturated i guess but so many already. They need better ideas then just another hotel lol. unless they assume a new hotel is gonna do or be any better then those around already.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Angel_ on June 07, 2018, 05:32:59 PM
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I am guessing at some point if all does not got right, then there will be too many hotels to have the center expand how they wanna do so. they know the center needs more space, but just too much bs and money it takes is just dragging it out which seems like forever lol. i really dont think they need another hotel, cause they really need to expand more.
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Read through about the deal and they still wanna build another hotel in an area already saturated i guess but so many already. They need better ideas then just another hotel lol. unless they assume a new hotel is gonna do or be any better then those around already.

Actually I disagree very very much. 

While I'd rather the convention center gets expanded if I had to choose (like if it's hotel vs convention center, I'd go convention center), I don't think there's enough hotels downtown for SDCC.  People get stuck out in Mission Valley, Old Town, and the Airport with a high frequency.  The issue is that when SDCC is over, the rooms feel a bit empty.  We're kind of the biggest thing to happen to downtown all year so while they create infrastructure for us, a lot of it may sit empty for the rest of the year.

So basically no, I don't think the Gaslamp is at all saturated with hotels in regards to SDCC.  We don't have enough honestly.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: mattytreks on June 12, 2018, 07:14:15 PM
http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/tourism/sd-fi-convention-expansion-deal-20180612-story.html

Quote
City and port leaders agreed Tuesday to buy out a hotel developer for more than $33 million to regain control of a waterfront parcel crucial to expanding the San Diego Convention Center.

Although an expansion of the center still depends on the outcome of a proposed hotel tax increase likely to face voters this November, Tuesday’s action by the San Diego City Council and Port Commissioners cleared a major hurdle that had threatened to undo the long-planned project.

========================================
HurdleStatus
Project approval by California Coastal CommissionCLEARED
ThisCLEARED
Pass Nov 2018 ballot measure by two-thirds majorityPending
========================================

We're now just a single hurdle away from the convention center actually, finally expanding -- all but guaranteeing Comic-Con will be here to stay forever.

Please don't play with my emotions, citizens of San Diego...let this happen!
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Vapors on June 13, 2018, 10:21:54 PM
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We're now just a single hurdle away from the convention center actually, finally expanding -- all but guaranteeing Comic-Con will be here to stay forever.

Please don't play with my emotions, citizens of San Diego...let this happen!

What are the demographics like now?  I haven't lived in SD for over a decade, but my recollection is that its still a pretty Republican/Conservative (fiscally anyways) place.  Any tax on the ballot always seems to be a risky bet.  The two thirds threshold seems like a pipe dream, but a simple majority I could see happening.  The only question, which is brought up in the article, would be how would the result pass the courts in the event its a simple majority as opposed to a 2/3s vote.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Angel_ on June 14, 2018, 10:46:07 AM
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The two thirds threshold seems like a pipe dream, but a simple majority I could see happening.

This is my thought exactly. I don't see it getting 2/3 at all.  Not just fiscally conservative people, but people that find giant conventions a nuisance might vote against this.  This is going to be a tough one.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on August 09, 2018, 10:07:58 AM
??? ::)

From https://www.voiceofsandiego.org/topics/government/mayor-scrambles-to-save-convention-center-expansion-measure/

Quote
Then came a Wednesday bombshell.

The county registrar’s random sampling of signatures the campaign turned in last month revealed the measure did not cross the state-mandated threshold to avoid a full count and evaluation of each signature. That would trigger a weeks-long review process that would run through much of September. The deadline to make the November ballot is this Friday.

The mayor’s team jumped into action on Wednesday, urging the City Council to act and making necessary tweaks to ballot language to make it a city measure. It means that the citizens’ initiative would likely be done, the donors’ losses booked and the requirement for voter support solidified at two-thirds. By late afternoon, City Council President Myrtle Cole called a special City Council meeting. City Councilman Chris Cate, who is on paternity leave after the birth of his daughter just a week ago, agreed to come to the meeting and City Councilman Mark Kersey, who is visiting Ohio, made plans to call in. The mayor’s office also had to plan around City Council President Pro Tem Barbara Bry’s Friday vacation plans. City Councilman Chris Ward is already gone. In spite of the travel and hectic preparation, the mayor’s team believes it can secure the five votes necessary to send the measure to the ballot despite the last-minute panic.

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/growth-development/sd-fi-convention-center-signatures-20180808-story.html

Update:

From http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/tourism/sd-fi-convention-center-ballot-20180809-story.html

Quote
A divided San Diego City Council said no Thursday to putting a measure on the ballot to expand the city’s bayfront convention center, rebuffing Mayor Kevin Faulconer’s pleas to do so. The council had been asked to move the measure forward after a citizens’ initiative that would have boosted the hotel tax to finance the expansion project failed to secure enough valid signatures to make it onto the ballot. The measure would have also funded homeless initiatives and road repairs.

https://www.kpbs.org/news/2018/aug/09/sd-city-council-to-consider-convention-center/
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: mattytreks on August 10, 2018, 03:26:43 PM
Well then.  That was dealt with rather swiftly by city council.

At this point I honestly have no idea where the mayor and proponents of a convention center expansion go from here.

If I were a gambling man, I say that CCI stays put here in San Diego even if the convention center cannot expand.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Miss Kitty on August 10, 2018, 03:35:00 PM
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Well then.  That was dealt with rather swiftly by city council.

At this point I honestly have no idea where the mayor and proponents of a convention center expansion go from here.

If I were a gambling man, I say that CCI stays put here in San Diego even if the convention center cannot expand.
You'd be a winner in your gambling choice. Actually, we all win!

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on August 10, 2018, 07:05:16 PM
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If I were a gambling man, I say that CCI stays put here in San Diego even if the convention center cannot expand.

They have already stated that this is the case. CCI has publicly said that if they leave San Diego, it will be because of the hotels, not because of the convention center.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: cabler30 on August 10, 2018, 09:43:19 PM
So guessing they can find ways to manage the traffic, but if hotels cant find ways to keep price decent for con goers then it a factor if move any later i guessing.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: chocolateshake on August 11, 2018, 10:20:07 AM
I don't know why there is all this emphasis on expanding the convention center to keep CCI.  Has CCI ever said that the convention center expansion was critical for them to stay?  I've said it before, if people think that the lines and lotteries are bad enough now then what do they think will happen if there is someway to double the number of attendees?  You already can't see much in much of Hall H except on the big screens, how will it be better to have 12,000 people in there instead of 6,000?

The amount of space available to comic-con is just not the convention center.  It's also the convention space at the surround hotels and area.  I've been to an official SDD panel that was not at the convention center, Hilton or Marriot.  As has been used by various offsites, Petco park can be considered a big annex of the convention center.  There's a lot of space for panels and exhibits there.  The big limiting factor there is cost.  As has been told to me by various people who have had offsites there, Petco Park gouges during comic-con.  Considering that the city owns 70% of Petco Park, I think they should be able to help out during price negotiations.

Also, there's the Gaslamp.  Which I think of as a part of comic-con.  It's the biggest offsite.

In the end, where would comic-con go?  I've been to numerous conventions in various cities.  I can't think of another city that could host comic-con better.  Sure there are big convention spaces in Las Vegas, but hosting it there would be decided different.  Moving around in Vegas between big buildings would be less interesting than moving around the convention center and surrounds in San Diego.  I don't see them doing any outdoor offsites in Vegas due to the heat.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Callie524 on August 12, 2018, 10:11:35 AM
Yeah I don’t think the convention is going anywhere. They definitely could not do outside events during SDCC in vegas the heat is just awful. Unless they changed the date of the convention which I don’t see them doing.The issue I see is not with the convention center but with the hotels that host stuff they have to be willing to keep hosting stuff like indigo ballroom at the Hilton bayfront and so on like using the children’s museum and petco park.  If those venues decide we don’t want to participate anymore in SDCC. Then the convention would definitely have to move! There would just be no space for anything.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: chocolateshake on August 13, 2018, 06:42:40 PM
The San Diego Union Tribune has published some more details about the situation.  They have confirmed that CCI has pushed for an expansion but so have other much smaller conferences.  The one they listed has 36,000 attendees.

There was something I didn't know about but it seems was a big factor in the recent expansion initiatives failing.  Part of the deal was that it would increase funding for the homeless.

Another thing I didn't know is that the window for the expansion was limited.  Either there would be a convention center expansion or that land would be used for a new hotel development.  Now that the expansion initiatives have failed, it looks like the hotel development now has rights to that land.  So the city is looking at the land the Symphony uses for summer concerts as another source of land to use for any future expansion.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Transmute Jun on August 14, 2018, 09:57:32 AM
Honestly, I'm not going to be unhappy with another downtown hotel right next to the convention center....
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: ccparka on September 13, 2018, 06:53:07 PM
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Yeah I don’t think the convention is going anywhere. They definitely could not do outside events during SDCC in vegas the heat is just awful. Unless they changed the date of the convention which I don’t see them doing.The issue I see is not with the convention center but with the hotels that host stuff they have to be willing to keep hosting stuff like indigo ballroom at the Hilton bayfront and so on like using the children’s museum and petco park.  If those venues decide we don’t want to participate anymore in SDCC. Then the convention would definitely have to move! There would just be no space for anything.

I doubt there will be a move. The revenue SDCC brings in is too high. No way they'll pass on it. What COULD happen is attendance drops so much off in the next few years from overpricing that CCI has to reconsider if San Diego is a viable location for the continuation of SDCC. Maybe it moves to a smaller area, one with less foot traffic like Fresno or a smaller city in CA.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: perc2100 on September 17, 2018, 04:30:34 PM
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They have already stated that this is the case. CCI has publicly said that if they leave San Diego, it will be because of the hotels, not because of the convention center.
Pssst: Comic-Con is NOT leaving San Diego anytime in the remotely foreseeable future short of a ginormous bombshell (which I can't fathom what it would be).

I have my sources beyond CCI PR (thought CCI PR is pretty honest FWIW) ;)
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: mattytreks on September 17, 2018, 04:32:46 PM
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Pssst: Comic-Con is NOT leaving San Diego anytime in the remotely foreseeable future short of a ginormous bombshell (which I can't fathom what it would be).

I have my sources beyond CCI PR (thought CCI PR is pretty honest FWIW) ;)

...and with that, I am going to stop worrying 8)
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: perc2100 on September 17, 2018, 04:38:08 PM
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...and with that, I am going to stop worrying 8)
I hate being vague, but I'm sworn to secrecy.
On an unrelated note the new Museum is going to be off-the-hook
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: BenEatsRice on September 19, 2018, 09:50:38 PM
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...and with that, I am going to stop worrying 8)

[member=4905]mattytreks[/member], I love your avatar! I've been searching for one of those guys ever since I caught a glimpse of them at Comic-Con. So hard to find for a decent price these days. Did you grab one/some?
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on September 20, 2018, 04:10:14 PM
http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/tourism/sd-fi-convention-initiative-ballot-20180919-story.html (bold = mine)

Quote
An initiative to bankroll a long planned expansion of San Diego’s convention center has new life after the county Registrar determined Thursday that the measure has enough signatures to qualify for the ballot — just not in 2018. The news comes more than a month after backers of the well-financed initiative effort learned that the measure failed a random count of the more than 114,000 signatures collected by the campaign. That triggered a full verification of all signatures by the county Registrar of Voters, but the time-consuming process would come too late to make it in time for this November’s ballot.

Just how soon San Diegans will have a chance to vote on the measure remains unclear. Although the next regular election is not until 2020, Mayor Kevin Faulconer, who has made the convention center expansion a top priority, has previously said he would consider pushing for a special election next year if need be. The ballot measure, backed by a high-powered coalition of tourism and business leaders, organized labor and homeless advocates, calls for raising the city’s room tax to as much as 15.75 percent to not only fund an enlarged center but also underwrite housing and services for the homeless and pay for road repairs.

Faulconer, while he would not say Thursday whether he will for certain be pushing for a special election, it is likely given his longstanding desire to see the center expanded. The continued homelessness crisis is also likely to fuel a push for an earlier election. “This initiative is an incredible opportunity to shape the future of our city for the better by tackling our biggest challenges and it can’t happen soon enough,” Faulconer said in a statement his office posted on Twitter. “With one vote, San Diegans will be able to house the homeless, fix our streets, and grow our economy — and the best part is it will all be paid for by visitors staying at our hotels. I look forward to working with our diverse coalition of supporters to finally get this across the finish line.”
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on January 17, 2019, 07:17:52 AM
https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/tourism/sd-fi-convention-center-homeless-initiative-mayor-2020-election-20190117-story.html

Quote
San Diego Mayor Kevin Faulconer, who had been pushing behind the scenes for a public vote this year on a measure to finance the long-stalled convention center expansion, will now wait until 2020 when there will be an already scheduled March primary and November general election.

No decision has been made yet on the timing for next year, Faulconer’s office said Thursday. Instead, the mayor will be taking his cues from the coalition of business and labor leaders who are behind a citizens’ initiative to raise billions of dollars from a hotel tax increase to not only fund the bayfront expansion but also pay for homeless services and road repairs.

“The mayor thought it was more important to take the time and expand the coalition of supporters than pushing forward with a special election,” said Faulconer’s chief of staff, Aimee Faucett.

Faulconer, in his Tuesday state of the city speech, had sidestepped the question of whether he was still pursuing a special election. Instead, he simply said that he was “excited” that the initiative “is finally, without question, headed to a public vote.” His silence on the timing led many to believe a 2019 election was off the table.

Faucett acknowledged there had been some resistance to a special election this year, which in part influenced Faulconer’s decision. While Faucett would not say so, it had become apparent to many observers in recent weeks that the mayor would be facing an uphill battle securing majority support from the City Council, which has three new members who just took office last month.

Questions also have been raised about whether the initiative can even be considered for placement on anything but a general election ballot. Backers of a voter-approved charter amendment governing San Diego city elections say that the measure bars the council from calling a special election specifically for a citizens’ initiative.

“The mayor is looking to hear from the citizens coalition as to what their desire and preference is for (the timing in) 2020,” Faucett said. “But he does feel the sooner the better. We really do need the money for dealing with the homeless and the streets and expanding the convention center.”

The coalition, which also includes homeless advocates, launched a signature-gathering effort early last year with the expectation of qualifying the hotel tax measure for last November’s ballot. The measure, though, fell short of the valid number of signatures needed to qualify based on a random count. By the time a full verification of the petitions was completed, it was too late to make it onto the ballot last year.

Backers of the measure, which calls for raising the city's hotel tax to as high as 15.75 percent for hotels closest to the downtown convention center, still face a high bar for winning voter approval. Normally a ballot measure seeking a tax increase for a special purpose requires a two-thirds majority. However, a California Supreme Court decision in 2017 suggested that only a simple majority is needed for a citizens initiative, although the ruling remains open to legal interpretation.

Under the initiative, the greatest share of revenue generated by the proposed tax hike — nearly $3.5 billion over 42 years — would go for the convention center project, including continued upkeep and marketing. More than $1.8 billion would be set aside for addressing homelessness, and $551 million is targeted for road repairs.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on April 16, 2019, 02:53:49 PM
From https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/politics/story/2019-04-15/convention-center-ballot-measure-moved-up-to-march

Quote
San Diego voters will decide next March whether to raise hotel taxes to expand the waterfront convention center and provide many millions for local homelessness programs and street repair.

The City Council voted 5-4 Monday to hold a citywide vote on raising hotel taxes eight months earlier than previously anticipated – the March 2020 primary instead of the November 2020 general election.

Monday’s vote was a resolution in favor of presenting the hotel tax to voters in March 2020. The council must vote again this fall to formally place the measure on that ballot.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: mattytreks on April 16, 2019, 03:10:17 PM
The wheels of progress move slowly in San Diego.

The back & forth continues with voters, the courts, and elected officials...since 2013.


Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on April 22, 2019, 12:07:53 PM
https://visitsandiego.com/2019/04/san-diego-convention-center-adopts-new-environmental-initiative

https://youtu.be/5Ii90eWndWY

Quote
sdconventionctr This year we’re celebrating 30 years of success as the premier gathering place for conventions, trade shows and events that economically benefit the #sandiego region. We're kicking off this milestone today and will be spending the rest of 2019 celebrating with stories, videos and events for the community.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BwcrXsAHGb5/
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on September 14, 2019, 05:08:17 PM
From https://fox5sandiego.com/2019/09/12/convention-center-plans-behind-the-scenes-event-to-show-how-it-operates/

Quote
SAN DIEGO — The San Diego Convention Center announced Thursday that it will hold an event later this year to give residents a behind-the-scenes look at how it operates.

The convention center has celebrated its 30th anniversary all year long and hopes to help residents understand the unseen work to keep the 2 million-square-foot facility running year-round. In addition to the center’s 427 full- and part-time employees, workers from companies like FedEx Business and food and beverage partner Centerplate also share the building.

Convention center officials estimate the facility has generated more than $22 billion in regional impact since opening in 1989 as well as $555.7 million in tax revenue and $13 billion in direct spending by convention center attendees. The facility has held more than 5,800 events since it opened.

Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on October 11, 2019, 03:08:29 AM
From https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/tourism/story/2019-10-10/backers-of-hotel-tax-hike-measure-to-fund-convention-center-expansion-homeless-services-launch-campaign

Quote
The upcoming March 3 ballot measure will culminate a more than decade-long effort to enlarge the convention center, which city and tourism leaders have long said is too small to accommodate larger meetings and conventions that want to come to San Diego.

What’s different this time around is that the proposed hotel tax increase, which calls for raising San Diego’s room tax to as high as 15.75 percent for hotels closest to the downtown convention center, includes substantial funding to also attack homelessness, plus a much smaller amount for repairing roads.

The greatest share of revenues generated by the proposed tax hike — nearly $3.5 billion over 42 years — would go for the convention center project, including continued upkeep and marketing. More than $1.8 billion is to be set aside for addressing homelessness, and $551 million is targeted for road repairs.

Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on December 20, 2019, 02:38:14 AM
From https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/story/2019-12-19/local-activists-city-of-san-diego-square-off-in-court-over-ballot-wording-for-hotel-tax-hike-measure

Quote
The disagreements over what should be the proper wording of a 75-word ballot summary stem from two recently filed lawsuits — one by San Diegans for Open Government, a self-described government watchdog group, and the other by a board member of the civic engagement group Alliance San Diego, along with homeless advocate Michael McConnell, who has been critical of the ballot measure.

Given the multiple suggested changes for rewording the ballot description, Whitney asked everyone to submit by late Thursday evening their proposed ballot statements, along with a couple of other acceptable alternatives. Timing is critical for resolving the issue because the County Registrar of Voters is facing a Dec. 27 deadline for printing ballots for the March election.

A few hours after the hearing, City Attorney Mara Elliott filed a statement with the court saying that the city would not be able to provide any changed wording because that would require the approval of the City Council and there is not time to convene a special hearing.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: sorb3t on January 08, 2020, 12:20:25 PM
I recall seeing proposals for convention center expansion. Has an actual design been settles on, or is it all proposals until there is actual funding in place?
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Mistborn on January 12, 2020, 05:09:45 PM
Can you imagine how much the tickets would be if they expanded? Im sure the local restaurants and hotels won't be happy since they will have high taxes and fees
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: TheSa|nt on January 31, 2020, 02:55:13 PM
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Can you imagine how much the tickets would be if they expanded? Im sure the local restaurants and hotels won't be happy since they will have high taxes and fees

I remember when it was like $50 for the whole run. Less than that even, but I was too young to pay my own way back then so I don't know how much it was. Eventually, you'll have to survive The Hunger Games just for a spot in the online waiting room to join the lottery system.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: sorb3t on January 31, 2020, 03:24:22 PM
Waiting in line to wait in line? That's a SDCC experience right there!

All kidding aside, are any of the proposals calling for expansion of the main hall, or just additional building(s)?

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Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: TheSa|nt on January 31, 2020, 04:16:48 PM
I'd love to see a proper expansion but they are quite limited on space as it is. Likely, they would have to get rid of the underground parking and turn that into a floor of the convention space or something, but even then, it needs to be able to capable of passing relates building codes (else the entire building would face massive renovation). They should just bring it to Las Vegas. The new convention center there is going to be off the hook when they get done expanding it. It is already off the hook as it is. They could easily double the attendance or more in Vegas and have all the expansion they could ever ask for. The only catch is that it is Vegas when you walk outside, and not the energy of San Diego, the ocean, etc.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: mattytreks on January 31, 2020, 04:19:33 PM
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I'd love to see a proper expansion but they are quite limited on space as it is. Likely, they would have to get rid of the underground parking and turn that into a floor of the convention space or something, but even then, it needs to be able to capable of passing relates building codes (else the entire building would face massive renovation). They should just bring it to Las Vegas. The new convention center there is going to be off the hook when they get done expanding it. It is already off the hook as it is. They could easily double the attendance or more in Vegas and have all the expansion they could ever ask for. The only catch is that it is Vegas when you walk outside, and not the energy of San Diego, the ocean, etc.

All due respect to Las Vegas or any other part of the country, but being in San Diego is part of what gives Comic-Con its identity.  The intimate, seaside downtown atmosphere...strolls along the bay at night, mingling with friends in the Gaslamp...

That cannot be replicated anywhere else.

I hope they remain here forever.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: TheSa|nt on January 31, 2020, 04:45:58 PM
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All due respect to Las Vegas or any other part of the country, but being in San Diego is part of what gives Comic-Con its identity.  The intimate, seaside downtown atmosphere...strips along the bay at night, mingling with friends in the Gaslamp.

That cannot be replicated anywhere else.

I hope they remain here forever.

As much as I wish they would move it to somewhere less chaotic, I do agree. It is just so expensive for fans and so, chaotic. The show is no longer a vacation from everything else in the real world as it is a luxury that you have to buy into in every way. I've seen the number of people that are piling into some of these hotel rooms to make it work (secretly behind the rules of the hotel for a minimum occupancy). It's just not right in ways. In others, some may see it as an adventure I guess. They do need to work on the attitude some of the crowd seems to have gained in recent years. Rushing through, bashing into people without saying a single word for example. It's like moving through the streets of a busy city in China. Traffic issues would be the same though no matter where it is brought to. Vegas has the same issue when it comes to CES if you get anywhere near the main convention center. It's just so hard to get so many people into one space and then also expect them to act nicely about it :)
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on January 31, 2020, 09:01:25 PM
Quote
sdconventionctr Carpet Replacement - Lobby A-C ONE MINUTE Time-Lapse! 🎬 This video is for Lobby A-C but we have replaced the carpet in all of the lobbies throughout our building. We used approximately 46,000 (!) carpet tiles that you can see being installed one at a time.

https://www.instagram.com/p/B7_sZ-5HO4T/
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: alyssa on February 12, 2020, 08:17:42 AM
Quote
From https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/tourism/story/2019-10-10/backers-of-hotel-tax-hike-measure-to-fund-convention-center-expansion-homeless-services-launch-campaign

Quote
The upcoming March 3 ballot measure will culminate a more than decade-long effort to enlarge the convention center, which city and tourism leaders have long said is too small to accommodate larger meetings and conventions that want to come to San Diego.

What’s different this time around is that the proposed hotel tax increase, which calls for raising San Diego’s room tax to as high as 15.75 percent for hotels closest to the downtown convention center, includes substantial funding to also attack homelessness, plus a much smaller amount for repairing roads.

The greatest share of revenues generated by the proposed tax hike — nearly $3.5 billion over 42 years — would go for the convention center project, including continued upkeep and marketing. More than $1.8 billion is to be set aside for addressing homelessness, and $551 million is targeted for road repairs.


REMINDER to all locals, please VOTE on march 3 FOR the expansion.

This is getting a lot of positive local press
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: marcia29 on February 12, 2020, 10:00:08 AM
As I was watching the carpet tile replacement video, looking out of the skylight reminded me of The Time Machine (1960)  time lapse in the atrium. :D
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: mattytreks on February 12, 2020, 10:21:44 AM
I'm going to miss that turquoise carpeting!  So much time spent over the years resting and waiting and hanging out on that stuff.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: sorb3t on February 12, 2020, 11:34:13 AM
I'm crossing fingers that a layer of anti fatigue padding was added under the carpet but won't hold my breath.

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Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: alyssa on February 29, 2020, 12:39:56 PM
A reminder to all SD voters... Please help the convention ct expansion and vote Yes on C
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200229/c33d71498193edae8878b8b3742ef25f.jpg)

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Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on March 03, 2020, 07:09:39 PM
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A reminder to all SD voters... Please help the convention ct expansion and vote Yes on C
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200229/c33d71498193edae8878b8b3742ef25f.jpg)

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Quote
countyofsandiego Election Results - When to Expect Them

Everyone wants election results immediately. Some will come within hours after the polls close. But it will take weeks to get to final results. Watch to learn why it takes that much time.

https://www.instagram.com/p/B9SYfNuBEfe/
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Iris on March 03, 2020, 07:44:07 PM
I was driving to work this morning and the mayor was on my usual radio channel to answer some questions about voting on Super Tuesday. He really pushed for the convention center expansion during his time on air.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: alyssa on March 04, 2020, 06:42:26 AM
and it failed to get the two thirds majority needed to pass. Mesure c needed 66% but got 64%

 :( :(
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: mattytreks on March 04, 2020, 07:25:32 AM
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and it failed to get the two thirds majority needed to pass. Mesure c needed 66% but got 64%

 :( :(

Two measly percentage points.  What a gut punch.

That said, I truly do enjoy the con at its current size and layout.  CCI would never do the unthinkable and leave...
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: perc2100 on March 04, 2020, 07:41:42 AM
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and it failed to get the two thirds majority needed to pass. Mesure c needed 66% but got 64%

 :( :(
Maybe it'll get overwhelming support on the mail-in ballots  :(
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: alyssa on March 04, 2020, 08:01:06 AM
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Maybe it'll get overwhelming support on the mail-in ballots  :(
there was talk of going to court and trying to get it adjusted down to a simple majority vs. requiring 2/3rds.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: perc2100 on March 04, 2020, 09:05:01 AM
I was wondering about that; it feels like in a conservative town in particular getting a 2/3rds majority involving tax changes is incredibly difficult/nearly impossible.  Education bond measures require a 55%, meaning slightly more than simple majority but seemingly doable (though both my local district bond & the state-wide education bomb failed, albeit the state one at least got a little over 50% I think): maybe changing to that would be a compromise
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Mario Wario on March 04, 2020, 09:32:19 AM
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and it failed to get the two thirds majority needed to pass. Mesure c needed 66% but got 64%

 :( :(
Not shocked.

Anything that has “higher taxes” on it, bet your life savings it won’t pass over there.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on December 29, 2020, 12:13:00 PM
From https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/story/2020-12-28/bayfront-hotel-project

Quote
An ambitious $455 million project that would have added more than 1,000 rooms to San Diego’s downtown bayfront was rejected Monday by port commissioners who were troubled by the enormity of the development and its impacts on public vistas.

Proposed by longtime port tenants Ray Carpenter and Art Engel, the project envisioned a 44-story, 843-room hotel, plus a second five-story hotel with 220 rooms catering to budget-minded guests, located on the bay side of the San Diego convention center where city leaders have long wanted to expand the waterfront facility. In all, the development encompassed 18 acres, of which 13 are on the water where a 12-slip marina is situated.

Before the development could have moved forward, it needed the Port of San Diego to certify the environmental impact report, an action the commissioners were unwilling Monday to take. The net effect of their vote to not approve the environmental analysis was to kill the project. Even if the port had agreed to advance the development, it would have still required the consent of the Coastal Commission, which places a high priority on public spaces and coastal access.

The port action now leaves undeveloped a crucial site long coveted by the city for an enlarged convention center — a project that already has the blessing of the Coastal Commission. The expansion, though, remains in limbo because a ballot measure seeking to finance it with an increase in the city’s hotel room tax failed in March to garner the two-thirds majority support it needed for passage. Backers of the measure, however, remain encouraged because of a recent decision by the California Supreme Court to not hear an appeal of a lower court ruling in favor of the simple majority threshold.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on March 30, 2021, 09:31:23 PM
From https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/politics/san-diego-city-leaders-argue-convention-center-ballot-measure-passed-seeking-court-approval/2564031/

Quote
Measure C, a March 2020 ballot measure that sought to fund upgrades to San Diego's waterfront convention center and other services, didn't get the two-thirds supermajority it needed to pass, but the San Diego City Council says post-election appellate court rulings have established the simple majority as the new threshold for similar ballot items and wants to declare Measure C approved.

Measure C was put before San Diego voters in March, 2020. The citizens' initiative proposed an increase to taxes guests pay at San Diego hotels for the next 30 years. Revenue would have funded "convention center expansion, modernization, promotion and operations, homelessness services and programs, and street repairs," according to the city council.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: AzT on June 04, 2021, 08:12:57 PM
https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/story/2021-06-04/will-court-rule-that-san-diegos-convention-center-ballot-measure-passed-with-simple-majority

Quote
The city of San Diego on Friday made good on its promise to ask a judge to confirm that last year’s ballot measure to fund an expanded convention center, homeless services and road repairs did indeed pass with a simple majority. In a lawsuit filed in Superior Court late in the day, City Attorney Mara Elliott’s office asked the court to determine that Measure C was lawfully enacted in March 2020 even though it fell short of the two-thirds majority voters at the time were told was needed for approval.

That requirement, argues the city, is no longer valid in light of three appellate court decisions that have since come down, concluding that simple majority approval is adequate when a tax hike is placed on the ballot by citizens, which was the case with Measure C.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: mdla on September 14, 2021, 11:25:31 AM
Apple had their event showing off all their new products, but the REAL news was that they included video from the new Rady Shell at Jacobs Park (where the symphony plays their outdoor shows by the bay).  To say the venue looks stunning would be an understatement, and I hope SDCC will bring it into the fold as an official venue for panels moving forward.  I cued up the video so you can see the shots of Rady as well as some pretty vistas of the convention center :)

https://youtu.be/EvGOlAkLSLw?t=2365
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: perc2100 on September 15, 2021, 12:07:43 PM
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Apple had their event showing off all their new products, but the REAL news was that they included video from the new Rady Shell at Jacobs Park (where the symphony plays their outdoor shows by the bay).  To say the venue looks stunning would be an understatement, and I hope SDCC will bring it into the fold as an official venue for panels moving forward.  I cued up the video so you can see the shots of Rady as well as some pretty vistas of the convention center :)

https://youtu.be/EvGOlAkLSLw?t=2365
And some of the tech they're using for the concerts is amazing.  There's the obvious stuff, like the imagery they project onto the _sides_ of the shell (not just the screens that utilize cameras to show performers: I'm talking projections of animation-esque imagery in addition to the now-standard performers-on-the-big-screen stuff).  Not just cool colors like the Hollywood Bowl does (for example: when John Williams conducts music from ET they'll project rainbow colors around the Bowl; or red during the 'Imperial March'), but visuals that enhance the performances in different ways.
But there's also the stuff that's more "inside baseball" tech-wise.  For example, the way they're mic'ing the stage is really state-of-the-art technology.  You can see the myriad of mics hanging from the ceiling all over the stage (as well as the cameras, though some cameras are easier to spot than others), but their set-up is really unlike the vast majority of performing venues: certainly nothing like it elsewhere in San Diego that I know of.

I love our Shell, even though I've not had the pleasure of seeing as many concerts there as I'd like (I was _REALLY_ bummed to miss the Stewart Copeland "Police Deranged" gig due to having to work a HS football game  :( )
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: alyssa on January 04, 2022, 08:29:19 AM
https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/story/2022-01-03/san-diegos-fight-to-approve-hotel-tax-measure-just-got-a-little-easier

yay!!

tl:dr, a simple majority is looking more and more likely
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: mattytreks on January 04, 2022, 08:30:50 AM
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https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/story/2022-01-03/san-diegos-fight-to-approve-hotel-tax-measure-just-got-a-little-easier

yay!!

tl:dr, a simple majority is looking more and more likely
That’s fantastic!!  We were oh-so-close the last time.

Nearly a decade ago, I never thought this would drag on for so long.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Old Man Grey on January 04, 2022, 10:01:31 AM
I question if they even need an expansion now. I don't think Comic-Con will ever be as big as it once was. And conventions in general are shrinking and going away. A lot of money and work for a dim future. :(
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: alyssa on January 04, 2022, 10:17:23 AM
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I question if they even need an expansion now. I don't think Comic-Con will ever be as big as it once was. And conventions in general are shrinking and going away. A lot of money and work for a dim future. :(
I don't think the expansion was just for SDCC LOL

but, it will be interesting to see how conventions come back and in what form.
imho, next season, Spring-Summer, will be a good indication.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Old Man Grey on January 04, 2022, 03:06:08 PM
Yes, the expansion was for Comic-Con. No other conventions needed the extra space. San Diego wasn't losing conventions after the last expansion. I think a lot of companies realized after the shutdowns that conventions aren't necessary. I think it sucks because I love going to conventions in many different fields. >:(
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: sessionka on January 04, 2022, 04:17:01 PM
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Yes, the expansion was for Comic-Con. No other conventions needed the extra space. San Diego wasn't losing conventions after the last expansion. I think a lot of companies realized after the shutdowns that conventions aren't necessary. I think it sucks because I love going to conventions in many different fields. >:(

I think they will come back.  There is nothing like real human interaction.   :)
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Mario Wario on January 05, 2022, 09:22:45 AM
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Yes, the expansion was for Comic-Con. No other conventions needed the extra space. San Diego wasn't losing conventions after the last expansion. I think a lot of companies realized after the shutdowns that conventions aren't necessary. I think it sucks because I love going to conventions in many different fields. >:(
I wouldn’t worry about that yet. Not every expo/con is like E3 in that the bigger companies see it as totally unnecessary to visit to promote their products vs. holding their own events.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: stl_ben on January 05, 2022, 10:00:14 AM
Conventions will come back just a strong.  I expect it to be continuously growing sector with the younger generation spending more on experiences than items.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: alyssa on March 07, 2022, 09:58:41 AM
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https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/story/2022-01-03/san-diegos-fight-to-approve-hotel-tax-measure-just-got-a-little-easier

yay!!

tl:dr, a simple majority is looking more and more likely

Well, maybe not
the judge just heard arguments against a simple majority
They are putting tickets on sale on March 15th!!!

https://www.starwarscelebration.com/en-us/tickets.html
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: alyssa on March 10, 2022, 10:11:44 AM
#ugg

Tax measure to expand San Diego Convention Center suffers legal setback

https://www.kpbs.org/news/local/2022/03/09/tax-measure-to-expand-san-diego-convention-center-suffers-legal-setback/?utm_campaign=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_source=todays-top-news&utm_term=headline
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: Mistborn on May 05, 2022, 08:02:21 AM
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#ugg

Tax measure to expand San Diego Convention Center suffers legal setback

https://www.kpbs.org/news/local/2022/03/09/tax-measure-to-expand-san-diego-convention-center-suffers-legal-setback/?utm_campaign=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_source=todays-top-news&utm_term=headline

Yikes! Sounds like the Convention Center is just having a rough time trying to get other motion passed.
Title: Re: San Diego Convention Center Expansion
Post by: DaveG on May 05, 2022, 09:46:25 AM
I've been watching this debate for so long that I'm convinced nothing is going to happen in my lifetime.