Post by: alyssa on March 16, 2020, 08:46:18 AM
It occurred to me, we might also benefit from a 'check in' and reports from different parts of the country.
please check in if you start to feel bad, have any local stuff to report, like if you go out how is the social distancing working? are people complying?
how is traffic comparatively (it's usually XXX, now it's YYYY for example)
I need to go out today for pet food and milk. I will report on life in the Mission Valley area of San Diego ;)
Post by: mickeyjack3 on March 16, 2020, 08:47:25 AM
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Post by: Miclpea on March 16, 2020, 09:16:21 AM
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Post by: mickeyjack3 on March 16, 2020, 10:05:40 AM
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Post by: alyssa on March 16, 2020, 10:15:14 AM
https://www.sandiegocounty.gov/content/sdc/hhsa/programs/phs/community_epidemiology/dc/2019-nCoV/status.html?fbclid=IwAR1XJtnap0TsHmr8RaSHyatEbYR1NVC3CSO-Pu0BEZXjTFuHfdnbTywC4WA
i'm also hearing the National Guard is being called up. I can only assume to enforce the social distancing. I don't know if that's only the Cali guard or nationwide. i assume the new york state is in the same mind set
Post by: chocolateshake on March 16, 2020, 12:08:29 PM
i'm also hearing the National Guard is being called up. I can only assume to enforce the social distancing. I don't know if that's only the Cali guard or nationwide. i assume the new york state is in the same mind set
I haven't heard about the National Guard being called up in California. But outside of Martial Law being declared, the military does not have police powers in the US. So they can't even do anything like enforce social distancing. What the military can do in the US is help out. If this was a flood, they can rescue people. Up in Washington where the National Guard is already out, they are delivering food. Even in the widely publicized deployment of the National Guard to the border, the jobs they did were clerical and support to free up civilian border agents. The military is not allowed to do civilian border enforcement.
Post by: alyssa on March 16, 2020, 01:11:54 PM
I was able to find both milk and chunky peanut butter just because I looked on the bottom shelves!
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Post by: marcia29 on March 16, 2020, 01:38:53 PM
Post by: janray on March 16, 2020, 01:48:20 PM
Post by: chocolateshake on March 16, 2020, 02:04:41 PM
The Publix grocery store I was in today, has stopped having sanitizer sheets at the door. Instead, they have employees sanitizing the carts from stem to stern. That delayed getting a cart, yet it seemed like it was a good idea.
That's what my Costco did last week. They wiped down carts at the door. The problem I had with that was that I wanted a wipe so that I could go get a cart without touching it. What's the point of them cleaning a cart if you have to touch a dirty cart to bring it to them. They wouldn't give me a precious wipe. So I used a napkin I had as a shield. She saw that and said I could have just asked for a glove. Why didn't she offer that when she turned me down for a wipe?
Just announced that in all Bay Area counties non essential businesses must shut down until April 7 starting tomorrow at midnight.
It's more than that. It's a shelter in place order. It's a lockdown. Just like in China and Italy.
Post by: Transmute Jun on March 16, 2020, 02:13:43 PM
Just announced that in all Bay Area counties non essential businesses must shut down until April 7 starting tomorrow at midnight.
Yes, we just heard that. My son has wisdom teeth removal (read, elective medical surgery) scheduled for April 6, so I just got off the phone with the oral surgeon, rescheduling for June.
Everyone in the Bay Area has until midnight to go out and do things that are 'non-essential'.
Post by: janray on March 16, 2020, 02:24:58 PM
Post by: puppy on March 16, 2020, 04:08:21 PM
I had a cough a few days ago, but it is better today.
Post by: marcia29 on March 16, 2020, 04:24:55 PM
My dad (80 years old in April) has a sore throat, fever, and cough. He is staying home.
I had a cough a few days ago, but it is better today.
@puppy (https://www.friendsofcc.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=8132) May swift healing surround you and your dad!
Post by: Zero on March 16, 2020, 04:32:59 PM
My first reaction was "Yikes!" That's too close to home. Thankfully, I don't usually have to venture out to the "main" or central campus area (because of where I work at UCSD, ha ha), and all the classes I teach have been cancelled or moved to online-based platforms as of last Friday (yes, the 13th, ha ha). All I can think about is what a close call that is...
Stay safe, and stay vigilant about hygiene, everyone. ♡
Post by: Iris on March 16, 2020, 06:16:14 PM
I'm in San Diego, and I work part-time as UCSD. I got word this morning that two UCSD health workers tested positive for Covid-19. UCSD Health is doing everything they can to track who had been in contact with those two employees.
My first reaction was "Yikes!" That's too close to home. Thankfully, I don't usually have to venture out to the "main" or central campus area (because of where I work at UCSD, ha ha), and all the classes I teach have been cancelled or moved to online-based platforms as of last Friday (yes, the 13th, ha ha). All I can think about is what a close call that is...
Stay safe, and stay vigilant about hygiene, everyone. ♡
Oh Jeez. I'm in SD too and my mum works for UCSD Health (nurse practitioner at an offshoot in north county.) That hits a little too close to home, especially as I'm supposed to be taking classes at UCSD. I'm thinking of deferring for a term because of all of this craziness.
To report in North County SD: despite the rain traffic has been nearly nonexistent. I guess A LOT of people are only going out for necessities and/or are working from home. Every morning the past two weeks I've hit basically no traffic on my (admittedly short) drive to work. My other coworkers have reported similar findings.
On another note, we have yet to get orders, down here, to lockdown so our offices are continuing business per usual. Afaik, the courts up north and LA are canceling everything, not San diego. Trials that are upcoming are being delayed, but current ones aren't. We luckily just booted our trial that was meant to start on the 13th to May. So unless things change, I'm still going into work everyday. We're not well equipped for remote work because of the huge amount of medical docs and CDs we need to access the things for our cases. We're gearing up to prep the office for it though.
Post by: accelerate on March 16, 2020, 07:22:39 PM
I always like to find small little bright sides, no matter how insignificant in the grand scheme of things. And one is, with virtually non-existent traffic in the past seven days in the Bay Area, and with the rain, I'm sure it's helping the air quality.
Post by: Zero on March 16, 2020, 07:41:56 PM
Oh Jeez. I'm in SD too and my mum works for UCSD Health (nurse practitioner at an offshoot in north county.) That hits a little too close to home, especially as I'm supposed to be taking classes at UCSD. I'm thinking of deferring for a term because of all of this craziness.
I don't think you need to defer, if you're starting in the spring quarter. UCSD classes will be done online starting from last week until the end of the spring quarter. Even finals for the current winter quarter will be online-based.
That is too close to home for you and your mom as well! They haven't released information about which department the two health workers are in, but they know that they contracted the virus from somewhere around the San Diego community (and *not* from working with Covid-19 patients at one of the UCSD medical facilities).
Post by: marcia29 on March 16, 2020, 07:44:04 PM
Post by: Miss Kitty on March 16, 2020, 08:39:14 PM
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Post by: marcia29 on March 16, 2020, 08:43:27 PM
Wow! My friend was eating at a sushi joint in San Diego and the cops came in and closed the place down!
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Not feelin' that ...at all. :(
Post by: Iris on March 16, 2020, 08:55:08 PM
I don't think you need to defer, if you're starting in the spring quarter. UCSD classes will be done online starting from last week until the end of the spring quarter. Even finals for the current winter quarter will be online-based.
That is too close to home for you and your mom as well! They haven't released information about which department the two health workers are in, but they know that they contracted the virus from somewhere around the San Diego community (and not from working with Covid-19 patients at one of the UCSD medical facilities).
Yeah it's WAY too close for my mum. She used to work in the main Thornton hospital, so hopefully that's NOT where it happened, just because it has SO MUCH transfer potential...
Well, they officially said that no one would be coming in for classes, but they canceled one of mine already and no word on whether the other two will go forward online :/ it's kind of evolving so quickly they have to keep detracting what they said before. Because as of this past weekend they were still going to do on campus labs/small sessions. Now as of today, they canceled that completely.
So I'm still waiting to see if they'll even offer any online courses because as of now they only have in-class one scheduled.
Post by: Zero on March 16, 2020, 09:17:24 PM
Yeah it's WAY too close for my mum. She used to work in the main Thornton hospital, so hopefully that's NOT where it happened, just because it has SO MUCH transfer potential...
Well, they officially said that no one would be coming in for classes, but they canceled one of mine already and no word on whether the other two will go forward online :/ it's kind of evolving so quickly they have to keep detracting what they said before. Because as of this past weekend they were still going to do on campus labs/small sessions. Now as of today, they canceled that completely.
So I'm still waiting to see if they'll even offer any online courses because as of now they only have in-class one scheduled.
Well, to clarify, the contact didn't happen in a UCSD hospital or on-campus but from unknown whereabouts around the community. Either way, it's not a good sign.
Ah, okay... the higher-ups at UCSD probably still trying to figure it out, and it might take a little more time as all of this is happening so quickly. I'm sure things will work out soon.
Post by: accelerate on March 16, 2020, 11:32:04 PM
Post by: Iris on March 16, 2020, 11:45:05 PM
Well, to clarify, the contact didn't happen in a UCSD hospital or on-campus but from unknown whereabouts around the community. Either way, it's not a good sign.
Ah, okay... the higher-ups at UCSD probably still trying to figure it out, and it might take a little more time as all of this is happening so quickly. I'm sure things will work out soon.
Ahhh interesting, I misunderstood that initially I think. Though, who knows how many people they were then in contact with before they found out :/
Yeah, I'm sure the universities are in absolute chaos trying to get to online teaching. THOUGH, this program has a lot of experience with online courses (some of the courses are only offered online,) so you'd think they'd be faster on the uptake. But I imagine, it depends on the professor/instructor too. sigh I'm going to give it until the end of this week and possibly just refund my classes if I don't get a determinate answer as to whether I can take what I want online. OF COURSE, this means my grad date from the program will be delayed and I may have to deal with other issues as a result. UGH, **** this situation in general.
Edit: Update on SD and parts of the country. I just received an e-mail stating my spinning classes are canceled for the foreseeable future (I think all Cyclebars and Soul Cycles at least in affected areas are closing) and one that just confirmed that all 24 Hour Fitness'es will be closed for the foreseeable future as well.
As of today in SD, bars etc. were ordered to shut down (if they don't offer food) and there's only takeout and delivery from restaurants as they're meant to be as minimal as possible. We still don't have a shelter in place order, but I'm dreading it. My coworker was mentioning that we seem to be lagging behind much of California in terms of shutting down, especially when we got the chart of Courts that are shifting cases etc.
Post by: alyssa on March 17, 2020, 12:43:38 AM
i went to stores in mission valley san diego
the ups store, cvs, ralphs & ll reptile (food for the beardie) were all busy & running low on stock but I was able to get what i needed. Traffic was easy but the parking lots were full.
A couple of items at the grocery store were out of stock, milk and peanut butter. I was able to find those items because i looked on the lower shelves, out of normal eye site. It pays to look around. The butcher & fish counters were shuttered with no proteins on display. There was a decent selection of meat & veg in their respective areas. Oddly there was plenty of sweets and snacks but no beans/rice/pasta etc.
i may venture out again tomorrow to do a return in the outlets in Carlsbad tomorrow.
Post by: Jim Watari on March 17, 2020, 06:00:34 AM
Take-out only at restaurants, bars closed, gyms closed , ....
My brother is doing a test for working from home today , he prepped (VPN setup) other employees so they could work from home.
Post by: YouThinkMeMad on March 17, 2020, 10:08:08 AM
Schools - Closed for at least 2 weeks though rumors they might be done for the year
Bars/Eat In Restaurants/Gyms/Events: All closed/cancelled. Bars/Restaurants can do curb side/delivery/to go orders but that's it.
Over the weekend people were out in the bars full force so not surprised that the Governor had to step in and close things up.
Post by: marcia29 on March 17, 2020, 10:28:41 AM
Wow! My friend was eating at a sushi joint in San Diego and the cops came in and closed the place down!
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@Miss Kitty (https://www.friendsofcc.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=1617) I wondered if you could share any more info on this situation? This is the first I have heard of police action in this way. :( Thank you.
Post by: alyssa on March 17, 2020, 10:41:16 AM
@Miss Kitty (https://www.friendsofcc.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=1617) I wondered if you could share any more info on this situation? This is the first I have heard of police action in this way. :( Thank you.the mayor of SD made it law that no restaurants could be open except for togo food.
the police are enforcing that law. the gaslamp is shutdown as are all the other popular areas of town, little italy, pacific beach etc all
modified to add
I broke down & got an inhaler for $75. Yes, I have COPD & am in a danger age group. ::) :o >:(
Post by: chocolateshake on March 17, 2020, 11:12:04 AM
@Miss Kitty (https://www.friendsofcc.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=1617) I wondered if you could share any more info on this situation? This is the first I have heard of police action in this way. :( Thank you.
They had a news story about this on the local news last night. They didn't shut the place down. The police simply went to restaurants and bars to give them a flyer explaining the new rules. How could the police have even shut them down since the law didn't come into effect until midnight last night? The restaurant probably freaked out and shut themselves down.
Post by: alyssa on March 17, 2020, 01:19:49 PM
Most of the stores are closed. I spoke to one clerk who said they, I assumed she meant the entire mall would be closing tomorrow.
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Post by: TardisMom on March 17, 2020, 02:49:00 PM
Post by: angoradebs on March 17, 2020, 04:39:45 PM
I live in a small-ish town in the county above Cincinnati, Ohio. I have mostly been impressed with Ohio's response to the virus. We were the first to shut down schools, bars, and restaurants.
Our main local grocery chain announced reduced hours of 7am-9pm. Yesterday, I went at 7am. It was the most surreal experience of my life. I know we con-goers can queue like no one else, but it is super weird to line up to enter a grocery store. Everyone was incredibly quiet, talking in hushed voices, keeping to themselves. At opening, there was no meat and no bread. Only 2% or skim milk. Some toilet paper but not much (I'm good on TP, though, I always buy the 30-packs and I bought several packs about a month ago when they were on sale). I just couldn't believe the experience. I got what I needed and left as quickly as possible.
I work in local government in a finance office. My office does not deal directly with the public. However, other offices in my building and department do (income tax, utilities, etc). I suggested on Thursday that we should keep the public from entering the building (keep in mind I have absolutely ZERO authority on these matters, I'm at the bottom of the totem pole). My concerns were waved off. On Monday, the people in charge had a meeting based on the fact that other cities and utility companies had chosen to close off from the public. They decided to keep our building open. They literally posted on facebook to assure people that we would remain open. I went home and cried. My coworkers in those office are high risk or have high risk family members. I am still absolutely disgusted that they decided that someone being able to walk in and plop a check down on a counter (when we have mail, online, phone, and drop box options) was more important than the health and safety of their employees. Today, they caved and put us in lockdown. We must still come into work, where there is absolutely NOTHING in place to allow for distancing, and our cleaning service does not sanitize anything, but at least we are sealed off from public access. People are still having meetings and sitting right next to each other! Luckily I don't have to attend meetings.
Within an hour we had 2 complaints (one person wanted to pay cash and get change; one person wanted to hand a check over. Both were told to use the drop box and Cash Guy was told he could come back later with exact change or else any overpayment would be a credit on his account). People can be so incredibly stupid and selfish.
I have done my best to eliminate risk at work. I propped our break room door open and put a sign on it saying to leave it open so we don't have to touch the doorknob. We usually leave it closed because of the public, but that's no longer a concern. I share an office with one other person; we are more than 6 feet away from each other, and I'm making sure to keep as much space between me and other people when I have to speak to them. Using lots of hand sanitizer. Last week Staples almost refused our office supply delivery because I didn't want to electronically sign their tablet. Sorry, Staples, 3 boxes of paper and some binding combs are not worth the risk.
I'm concerned because I am a non-essential employee in an essential industry. I'm scared that even if the government orders a shut down of non essential businesses, I will be forced to come in and work. Never mind that my job literally depends on other places being open - if they are closed, I have no work to do. I will literally be sitting for 40 hours a week doing 10 hours of work, needlessly risking my health for NO REASON. I am lucky in that I live alone and cannot spread it to loved ones. But I am scared of catching it from work and spreading it at the grocery store, or vice versa - I share a printer with a 65 year old woman who is terrified.
I hate that I live in a small town with a mentality of "it can't happen here, everyone is overreacting." Even though we have had 6 cases in our county. People think it's a hoax (super elaborate hoax, Italy and China are super committed to it).
I'm hoping non-essential businesses get shut down, because my sister works in a bookstore (and her husband works in healthcare). I hate for people to lose their jobs. Ohio is allowing displaced workers (AND workers without sick pay!) to claim unemployment benefits immediately, which is amazing. I know I'm lucky to have a very secure job right now, and I'm speaking from a place of privilege, but if it isn't essential, it needs to close. People will not make the safe choice to stay home, so it needs to be made for them.
Post by: chocolateshake on March 17, 2020, 05:51:02 PM
On another note, I've seen more of my neighbors today than I have in years. People keep jogging around the block. There's one person who looped the block for a couple of hours. I would see her run by the house with her dog every few minutes.
Post by: accelerate on March 17, 2020, 06:41:08 PM
On another note, I've seen more of my neighbors today than I have in years. People keep jogging around the block. There's one person who looped the block for a couple of hours. I would see her run by the house with her dog every few minutes.
Usually, I take longer routes for my runs, to avoid the drudgery of running the same paths in loops over and over again, but since the pandemic started, I've felt... I dunno, a tad unsafe being out there. Not about getting the virus (though that is a concern), but about people in general. I honestly don't know how everyone else around me is reacting in this time of crisis, so I want to stay as close to home as possible, which means running loops. The really weird part is, running the same loop 6-7x feels more of a chore than running the same distance / time on a treadmill. I'm not at all sure why that is.
Post by: Michael M on March 17, 2020, 06:59:36 PM
(https://xnud9g.bn.files.1drv.com/y4mvAdj4kzvod8QpJEA1_OxW9GEhcLt8YtXKQ11tVCjQP9pGMnQVpICnWiDLPVjU9wcLeOmiKLd9g3oMVfxa1WyljTb1LnNy604bcegeWP6PETiH8AKvB3NQ0jpHN7uB1tvob3Z9dfTrpNbhNWbYw5e68HbBK1DnuPTYv2iiffFaO99wpD1SRkTyXRXKesAw6i6kCAafFpgrN8H2Bv6y8S1HA?width=473&height=1024&cropmode=none)
Post by: Iris on March 18, 2020, 10:56:24 AM
Ugh.
Post by: Zero on March 18, 2020, 11:11:39 AM
I'm officially sick, we don't think it's covid-19, but we're not sure as of yet. I'm hoping it's just allergies (it's mainly a cough and extremely sore throat.)
Ugh.
Oh no! Is it a dry cough? Have you had trouble breathing? A mucosal cough means it's most likely a cold or the regular flu.
Post by: Iris on March 18, 2020, 11:27:34 AM
Oh no! Is it a dry cough? Have you had trouble breathing? A mucosal cough means it's most likely a cold or the regular flu.
It's mostly mucosal, so I'm probably in luck in that case. I just went to sleep feeling poorly and woke up worse, so I texted work like "Here's what's going on and I can't be in today."
It is at some points dry, but it's mainly confusing. I'm hoping it's just a cold or allergies.
Post by: accelerate on March 18, 2020, 03:19:44 PM
Post by: Zero on March 18, 2020, 03:26:08 PM
It's mostly mucosal, so I'm probably in luck in that case. I just went to sleep feeling poorly and woke up worse, so I texted work like "Here's what's going on and I can't be in today."
It is at some points dry, but it's mainly confusing. I'm hoping it's just a cold or allergies.
Alright. Keep monitoring it. (It does sound like a cold or the regular flu, if it has been mostly mucosal.) You're probably already doing this, but drink plenty of fluids. Get a lot of rest, and keep yourself isolated in the meantime.
If you develop a fever within the next few days and start having shortness of breath following that, call a doctor and ask them what to do. (If it is Covid-19, they may direct you to go to somewhere for testing.)
A completely first world problem, but I really should’ve gotten a haircut before the Shelter in Place.
You know, I was thinking how I should have gotten a haircut a few weeks ago as well. My hair is so long now (down to my waist >__<), but I kept postponing it because I felt lazy, ha ha. First world problems indeed. *laughs*
Post by: Zero on March 18, 2020, 03:34:01 PM
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/12/think-i-have-coronavirus-symptoms-when-to-call-a-doctor-getting-tested-what-to-expect.html
(Sorry for the double post, but I figured this would be better if it were separate from a normal reply.)
Quote
‘I think I have coronavirus’: Symptoms to watch, when to call a doctor, getting tested—and what to expect overall
Published Thu, Mar 12 2020, 3:32 PM EDT
Updated Mon, Mar 16 2020, 6:01 PM EDT
Jessica Migala, Contributor
As the coronavirus outbreak continues to intensify, people are increasingly taking extra precautions in maintaining health and hygiene. Some schools and employers have responded to the global pandemic by shifting to online learning or asking employees to work from home.
With more than 127,000 COVID-19 cases worldwide (as of Thursday, March 12, 2020), according to data compiled by Johns Hopkins University, one question that still lingers is, “What should I do — and expect — if I think I have COVID-19?”
The short answer is: It depends. Although the disease has led to more than 4,700 deaths, “the most important message is that if you’re young and otherwise relatively healthy, it will most likely be similar to a common cold — or, worst case, the flu,” Dr. Sandra Kesh, deputy medical director at Westmed Medical Group, tells CNBC Make It.
If you feel sick and reasonably believe you have COVID-19, here’s a list of frequently asked questions, including symptoms to watch for, when to see a doctor, and getting tested:
What are the main symptoms of COVID-19?
According to the World Health Organization, common signs include fever, coughing, shortness of breath and breathing difficulties. In more severe cases, the infection can cause pneumonia, severe acute respiratory syndrome, kidney failure and death.
Symptoms range from mild to severe and may occur anywhere from two to 14 days after exposure, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention says.
If you feel sick now, it’s possible you might have the common cold or flu (both have similar symptoms to COVID-19), Dr. Gregory Poland, professor of medicine and infectious diseases at the Mayo Clinic, tells CNBC Make It. The only way to tell if you have COVID-19 is to test for it — although there’s more reason to think you do if you’re in the higher risk group, he says.
Those at high risk include people over 60who also have serious long-term health conditions, such as diabetes, heart disease or lung disease, Nancy Messonnier, director of CDC’s National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Diseases, said during a press briefing. People who smoke or vape may also have worse outcomes, according to New York City officials.
When should I see a doctor?
The CDC recommends calling your doctor if you develop any of the main symptoms, and have been in close contact with an infected person or recently traveled to an area with widespread of COVID-19.
If you have symptoms of severe illness (i.e., high or very low body temperature, shortness of breath, confusion or feeling you might pass out) and are a high-risk individual, you should seek medical care in an emergency department.
The CDC advises calling ahead before going to a doctor’s office or emergency room. Tell them about your symptoms and recent travels so they can prepare for your arrival. You may be asked to wear a face mask to avoid infecting others.
How do I get tested for COVID-19?
If your doctor thinks a test is appropriate, based on the most recent CDC guidelines, he or she can request a test. However, since the breadth of testing capacity is still unclear, there’s no guarantee you’ll get one right away.
In February, under mounting pressure from state and local officials, the US Food and Drug Administrationexpanded the types of labs that could run COVID-19 tests, allowing private national labs like Quest Diagnostics and LabCorp to start testing. (As of March 10, 2020, at least 78 state and local health labs in the US have testing capacity, according to Association of Public Health Laboratories.)
Testing involves taking samples from the nose and mouth or, for seriously ill patients, the lungs. Timing for test results will vary depending on the lab. For some, like the Stanford Health Care Clinical Virology Laboratory, results can take anywhere from 12 to 24 hours.
What if I test positive?
For the most part, the CDC suggests:
Staying at home (except to get medical care). Restrict activities outside of home. Avoid public places (i.e., work or school) and public transportation (i.e., trains, buses, ride-sharing services and taxis).
Separating yourself from others in your home. If you live with other people, stay in a separate room and, if possible, use a separate bathroom.
Wearing a face mask.If you can’t wear a face mask (i.e., because it causes trouble breathing), then those who live with you should wear one when they’re in the same room as you.
Washing your hands often. Do this with soap and water for at least 20 seconds. If you don’t have access to soap and water, clean your hands with an alcohol-based hand sanitizer that contains at least 60% alcohol.
When can I go back to work?
If you’re sick, the CDC advises staying home from work until at least 24 hours after your fever — 100 degrees Fahrenheit (37.8 degrees Celsius) or greater — is gone.
Your employer may have a pandemic preparedness plan in place, so make sure you speak with your supervisor about your options. (For more information, here’s the CDC’s Interim Guidance for Businesses and Employers.)
Is there a treatment or vaccine available for COVID-19?
There are no antiviral medications that treat COVID-19 at this time, according to the CDC. However, just like any viral infection, Dr. Kesh says taking certain measures can help:
Getting plenty of rest.
Staying well hydrated.
Taking medication (i.e., acetaminophen, ibuprofen or naproxen) to reduce fever and ease aches and pains. (Make sure you follow directions and keep track of all the ingredients and the doses.)
“Based on what we know so far, [for most people] it will probably be like when you’re laid up in bed with the flu,” says Dr. Kesh. “You’ll start to feel sick, symptoms get worse until they peak, and then they gradually go away.”
Jessica Migala is a Chicago-based health writer for HealthDay. She has written for O, The Oprah Magazine, Real Simple, Health, Family Circle, Woman’s Day and others. She is a graduate of the S.I. Newhouse School of Public Communications at Syracuse University.
Post by: semigeekgirl on March 18, 2020, 03:39:50 PM
A completely first world problem, but I really should’ve gotten a haircut before the Shelter in Place.
The flip side: I had my hair cut and colored just before everything shut down, and now I'm regretting spending the money on it since no one will see it.
Post by: YouThinkMeMad on March 19, 2020, 08:46:14 AM
The flip side: I had my hair cut and colored just before everything shut down, and now I'm regretting spending the money on it since no one will see it.
Plus side is you helped someone be able to pay a bill or two.
I had my hair colored yesterday because the shop is closing down for at least 2 weeks. I made sure to tip well since my girl since who knows when she'll be back to work.
Post by: semigeekgirl on March 19, 2020, 12:50:42 PM
Post by: perc2100 on March 19, 2020, 02:08:27 PM
I know one friend up in LA who has COVD-19, or at least he almost certainly does since he still hasn't gotten tested. He tested false for all other flus & viruses and has all the symptoms of COVID-19. He was updating me up until Tuesday, and he was afraid he might have to go to the hospital. The symptoms are absolutely horrible: he's a little younger than me (either late 30's/maybe 40-41), in relatively good health (not some crazy athlete-type but he does regular exercise and eats OK), doesn't smoke or have asthma or other respiratory issues. And this has hit him HARD, and horribly. It's kinda scared me to not want to leave my house, so I'm settling in and waiting everything out.
On the plus side, don't have to care how I look!
Post by: Michael M on March 19, 2020, 03:37:46 PM
Post by: mickeyjack3 on March 19, 2020, 04:40:06 PM
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Post by: alyssa on March 19, 2020, 08:50:19 PM
I’m an administrator at a university. We are completely shut down for the rest of the academic year. Classes are happening on-line, but today all staff were ordered to work from home until the end of May at a minimum. Graduation has been cancelled. And we’re in fly over country (Minnesota). I can’t imagine what it’s like for you folks on the coasts. I’m 63, and my wife is 59. Neither of us plan to leave the house other than to walk (no interaction with people) for a minimum of two weeks, probably much longer. My mother and father are in their 80’s. I do not plan to see them for a very long time. I had badges, airfare and hotel (and Disney) for WonderCon. I live for SDCC. I’ll be very disappointed if it’s cancelled. But I just don’t see how it’s going to be able to go on. If I’m overreacting, I’d be very eager to be talked down off the ledge. How does that Tinkerbell thing work again?
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i can't talk u off the ledge, i need talking too also. The Cali gov just ordered everyone to stay at home, saying if the projections were correct we'd have a shortfall of 10,000 hospital beds in about 2+ weeks. There plans in negotiation to use college dorms & hotels as hospitals.
Post by: accelerate on March 19, 2020, 09:35:06 PM
Post by: Iris on March 19, 2020, 11:13:26 PM
My friend just told me and linked me that the governor just made a stay at home order, other than essential fields in California.
Post by: AzT on March 19, 2020, 11:24:22 PM
Quote
sdcc.2020 🙏🏽 Stay safe. Hope the best for you. "Game Of Thrones" Alum Indira Varma Tests Positive For Coronavirus! @indypindy9 Actress Indira Varma has become the second Game of Thrones star to test positive for COVID-19.
The 46-year-old, who played Ellaria Sand on the show, has confirmed she’s battling the virus in an Instagram post on Wednesday. - “I’m in bed with it and it’s not nice,” she wrote. “Stay safe and healthy and be kind to your fellow people.” Indira was starring in The Seagull in London’s West End, alongside fellow Game of Thrones star Emilia Clarke, until the play was shut down due to the coronavirus pandemic.
Norwegian actor Kristofer Hivju, who played Tormund Giantsbane on the hit fantasy series, announced he had tested positive for COVID-19 via Instagram on Monday, revealing he has quarantined himself at home.
The two castmates join Tom Hanks, Rita Wilson, Idris Elba, and Olga Kurylenko among the celebrities who have tested positive for the killer virus. 📸: @HBO / @GameOfThrones
https://www.instagram.com/p/B98KIIygEin/
Post by: angoradebs on March 20, 2020, 03:54:40 PM
Random thought, I wonder if they will extend the date where you need to have a Real ID (or passport) to go through TSA? It's currently set for October 1, 2020.
Several states have requested the extension, including Ohio, which has closed all but 5 BMV offices (and those are ONLY open for CDLs so we can get truck drivers on the road). I imagine it will happen.
Post by: marcia29 on March 20, 2020, 06:40:59 PM
Refunds
We encourage you to purchase only what you need—and not to stockpile. At this time, we are suspending refunds on products purchased during this declared emergency. We will of course continue to honor our Publix Guarantee for any products that do not meet our quality standards.
Post by: Zero on March 20, 2020, 07:15:25 PM
Beware...returns at some stores may be suspended. I got this in an email from Publix:
Refunds
We encourage you to purchase only what you need—and not to stockpile. At this time, we are suspending refunds on products purchased during this declared emergency. We will of course continue to honor our Publix Guarantee for any products that do not meet our quality standards.
A lot of supermarkets already have that policy in place, from what I've seen in San Diego. Many of them have signs on the entrances that purchases are final sale.
I suspect that more supermarkets and grocery stores will be following the same policy, if they haven't incorporated it already.
So far, Target and Costco (at least as of today, March 20th) accept returned merchandise and items, with the exception of toilet paper, tissue, baby wipes, paper towels, disinfecting wipes and sprays, and the like.
Post by: Iris on March 20, 2020, 08:45:31 PM
A lot of supermarkets already have that policy in place, from what I've seen in San Diego. Many of them have signs on the entrances that purchases are final sale.
I suspect that more supermarkets and grocery stores will be following the same policy, if they haven't incorporated it already.
So far, Target and Costco (at least as of today, March 20th) accept returned merchandise and items, with the exception of toilet paper, tissue, baby wipes, paper towels, disinfecting wipes and sprays, and the like.
I've seen the same in SD, it's just that Costco, Target, etc. sell a LOT more of things than others you'd want to stockpile so it'd be a bit ridiculous if they weren't taking refunds/exchanges for non-stockpile items.
Post by: VeggieKitten on March 20, 2020, 08:50:18 PM
A completely first world problem, but I really should’ve gotten a haircut before the Shelter in Place.There are some YouTube videos on how to cut your own hair.
Post by: Zero on March 20, 2020, 09:01:32 PM
I've seen the same in SD, it's just that Costco, Target, etc. sell a LOT more of things than others you'd want to stockpile so it'd be a bit ridiculous if they weren't taking refunds/exchanges for non-stockpile items.Yep. Pretty much! You hit the nail on the head. XD
I actually went to return something to Costco today, and there was a line of at least 100 people waiting to go inside! That's a bit ridiculous. The supermarkets and grocery stores seemed to be in the same situation, at least from what I've observed. I know they're trying to curtail people from rushing en masse and frantically purchasing items as well as help people practice social distancing, but it's very odd to see these lines! It's almost very reminiscent of the Comic-Con kind of lines... like waiting to get into Hall H or Ballroom 20. ^__^;;;
Post by: omraged9 on March 20, 2020, 10:25:34 PM
I’m an administrator at a university. We are completely shut down for the rest of the academic year. Classes are happening on-line, but today all staff were ordered to work from home until the end of May at a minimum. Graduation has been cancelled. And we’re in fly over country (Minnesota). I can’t imagine what it’s like for you folks on the coasts. I’m 63, and my wife is 59. Neither of us plan to leave the house other than to walk (no interaction with people) for a minimum of two weeks, probably much longer. My mother and father are in their 80’s. I do not plan to see them for a very long time. I had badges, airfare and hotel (and Disney) for WonderCon. I live for SDCC. I’ll be very disappointed if it’s cancelled. But I just don’t see how it’s going to be able to go on. If I’m overreacting, I’d be very eager to be talked down off the ledge. How does that Tinkerbell thing work again?
Heh, just try to remember that we'll have SDCC next year. The studios holding back on their movies and TV shows will have tons to promote next year. It'll be the best SDCC ever :)
As for Wondercon, I'm actually waiting for the airlines to hopefully cancel my flights so I can get a refund. I know that they're supposed to give us credits but I'm afraid they won't be usable for the cons next year.
Yep. Pretty much! You hit the nail on the head. XD
I actually went to return something to Costco today, and there was a line of at least 100 people waiting to go inside! That's a bit ridiculous. The supermarkets and grocery stores seemed to be in the same situation, at least from what I've observed. I know they're trying to curtail people from rushing en masse and frantically purchasing items as well as help people practice social distancing, but it's very odd to see these lines! It's almost very reminiscent of the Comic-Con kind of lines... like waiting to get into Hall H or Ballroom 20. ^__^;;;
Oh my god I guess that's one way to pretend we're at SDCC this year, going to Costco or grocery lines and pretending we're going to see a cool panel inside :P
Post by: Zero on March 20, 2020, 10:37:17 PM
Heh, just try to remember that we'll have SDCC next year. The studios holding back on their movies and TV shows will have tons to promote next year. It'll be the best SDCC ever :)
As for Wondercon, I'm actually waiting for the airlines to hopefully cancel my flights so I can get a refund. I know that they're supposed to give us credits but I'm afraid they won't be usable for the cons next year.
Oh my god I guess that's one way to pretend we're at SDCC this year, going to Costco or grocery lines and pretending we're going to see a cool panel inside
You know... you could be right about 2021 turning out to be a really great Comic-Con because of the content the studios would bring in! It could potentially be quite awesome. So much to promote indeed! There's that silver lining. XD
Right, right?! Instead of a cool panel, it would be... the anticipation of buying milk, eggs, toilet paper, or chunky peanut butter?! XD
Post by: alyssa on March 21, 2020, 01:40:09 AM
Post by: ALF on March 21, 2020, 07:59:17 AM
Post by: puppy on March 21, 2020, 02:18:52 PM
Went to a Chinese market yesterday. Everything was well stock. No one was there. Guess everyone was scared off by the “Chinese flu”
Based on what you said, I went to a Chinese marked. It was the big 99 Ranch. Shelves were not completely bare, but they were not fully stocked and looked a little picked over. Prepackaged chicken (two breasts) were limited to 1 package per person. They had a meat counter but it was low on meat. Lots of live seafood, though. They did not have toilet paper because they don't normally sell paper goods at that store.
Post by: chocolateshake on March 21, 2020, 04:04:45 PM
I had to go to the Costco pharmacy to refill meds. That's the only reason I left the house. I was covered head to toe. Mask and goggles. I only saw two people when I left that had masks on. No one else felt the need. The entrance looked a lot like a Walking Dead Escape set all barred off with wooden pallets. There was a long line of people there only separated by shopping carts. They should be further apart. I skipped the line since I was only going to the pharmacy. A Costco employee escorted me there. I got the meds, left and went back home. I stripped off everything in the garage which went right into the washing machine and went in and took a shower.
I'm sadden but not surprised by the lack of a lockdown here during a lockdown. It's exactly what happened in Italy. It didn't work out there. It's not going to end well here. The thing the Chinese team said when they got to Italy was that their lockdown wasn't working. Too many people were still moving about. So now Italy is moving in the army to enforce the lockdown.
People really need to stay home. Take the lockdown seriously. It's not a vacation.
A lot of supermarkets already have that policy in place, from what I've seen in San Diego. Many of them have signs on the entrances that purchases are final sale.
I suspect that more supermarkets and grocery stores will be following the same policy, if they haven't incorporated it already.
So far, Target and Costco (at least as of today, March 20th) accept returned merchandise and items, with the exception of toilet paper, tissue, baby wipes, paper towels, disinfecting wipes and sprays, and the like.
The no return policy is because they are concern of getting infected goods back. That's why I quarantined everything I bought for a few days before using it. When I get something delivered I don't touch it for a few days. I don't even touch the mail for a few days.
Post by: alyssa on March 21, 2020, 05:00:46 PM
It wasn't crowded so there was some
social distancing.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200321/c5ade4222dca22b29bd179caa44a8c44.jpg)
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Post by: omraged9 on March 21, 2020, 06:17:49 PM
Yesterday I ventured out of the house for the first time in 10 days. I was not surprised by what I found. Here in California, isn't there supposed to a lockdown? I didn't see any evidence of it. There was the same amount of traffic. The parking lots at the stores were all full. Kids were playing together outside. Gardners were gardening. Construction workers were constructing. The only signs I saw of the outbreak were at a vet I passed and the guy begging in the street. The vet was practicing what the email I got from my vet said. In car appointments only. They come out to you, you don't go into them. When I was stopped at the light a tech was standing 6 feet away from someone wearing a mask and goggles asking her questions. The guy standing at the island in the middle of the street asking for money had those handheld helper sticks so he could take money without getting closer than 3 feet.
I had to go to the Costco pharmacy to refill meds. That's the only reason I left the house. I was covered head to toe. Mask and goggles. I only saw two people when I left that had masks on. No one else felt the need. The entrance looked a lot like a Walking Dead Escape set all barred off with wooden pallets. There was a long line of people there only separated by shopping carts. They should be further apart. I skipped the line since I was only going to the pharmacy. A Costco employee escorted me there. I got the meds, left and went back home. I stripped off everything in the garage which went right into the washing machine and went in and took a shower.
I'm sadden but not surprised by the lack of a lockdown here during a lockdown. It's exactly what happened in Italy. It didn't work out there. It's not going to end well here. The thing the Chinese team said when they got to Italy was that their lockdown wasn't working. Too many people were still moving about. So now Italy is moving in the army to enforce the lockdown.
People really need to stay home. Take the lockdown seriously. It's not a vacation.
The no return policy is because they are concern of getting infected goods back. That's why I quarantined everything I bought for a few days before using it. When I get something delivered I don't touch it for a few days. I don't even touch the mail for a few days.
Wow that's not good. Can I ask you what part of CA do you live in? I live in the East Bay Area and from the little I've seen here, it seems like most people are generally cautious and trying to stay a few feet from others. We definitely have much less traffic than we normally do.
I went grocery shopping today and was pleasantly surprised to find the stores with a minimal crowd. The Sprouts I had had plenty of fresh fruits and vegetables left and even plenty of meat products stocked with great shrimp prices. Majority of their frozen items were gone and no eggs. Across the street is Grocery Outlet and there, they had plenty of eggs left (one carton per family) and cheap 1 gallon water bottles and and sealed/packaged fish but a lot of their meat products were sold out. They also had a good amount of fresh vegetables and fruits available. So I'm finding that each store will vary in what they fully stock. It wasn't too hard to avoid people for the most part when going through the aisles and the lines were not too long.
Post by: puppy on March 21, 2020, 06:36:19 PM
Wow that's not good. Can I ask you what part of CA do you live in? I live in the East Bay Area and from the little I've seen here, it seems like most people are generally cautious and trying to stay a few feet from others. We definitely have much less traffic than we normally do.
I went grocery shopping today and was pleasantly surprised to find the stores with a minimal crowd. The Sprouts I had had plenty of fresh fruits and vegetables left and even plenty of meat products stocked with great shrimp prices. Majority of their frozen items were gone and no eggs. Across the street is Grocery Outlet and there, they had plenty of eggs left (one carton per family) and cheap 1 gallon water bottles and and sealed/packaged fish but a lot of their meat products were sold out. They also had a good amount of fresh vegetables and fruits available. So I'm finding that each store will vary in what they fully stock. It wasn't too hard to avoid people for the most part when going through the aisles and the lines were not too long.
I can attest to driving the freeways from San Diego to the Inland Empire yesterday during rush hour traffic and didn't hit a spot of congestion. The traffic was light up the 5 and 91, when it normally would have been bumper-to-bumper. People are staying inside down here.
Post by: semigeekgirl on March 21, 2020, 07:13:53 PM
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Post by: chocolateshake on March 21, 2020, 07:39:51 PM
Wow that's not good. Can I ask you what part of CA do you live in? I live in the East Bay Area and from the little I've seen here, it seems like most people are generally cautious and trying to stay a few feet from others. We definitely have much less traffic than we normally do.
I'm in San Diego.
Look at this live cam in Hollywood. It's nighttime and there are still quite a few cars and people about. That's with everything closed. During the lockout in China on a similar street in the middle of the day there would be very few people on the street and you would have to wait minutes to see a single car drive by.
https://www.earthcam.com/usa/california/losangeles/hollywoodblvd/?cam=hollywoodblvd
Post by: puppy on March 21, 2020, 07:44:12 PM
I'm in San Diego.
Look at this live cam in Hollywood. It's nighttime and there are still quite a few cars and people about. That's with everything closed. During the lockout in China on a similar street there would be very few people on the street and you would have to wait minutes to see a single car drive by.
https://www.earthcam.com/usa/california/losangeles/hollywoodblvd/?cam=hollywoodblvd
Quite a few businesses are considered essential, and quite a few people have essential business. People are allowed to exercise outside by themselves. I still go grocery shopping and to the pharmacy, so traffic should not be zero under the current policy. However, I've seen many closed shops and the traffic is very light. Outside, it is quiet. People are staying inside.
Post by: alyssa on March 21, 2020, 08:05:25 PM
I posit, a bunch of the folks driving might also be folks who just need to see something different and not breaking quarantine.
Post by: angoradebs on March 21, 2020, 08:26:49 PM
Ohio still hasn't issued a non-essential shutdown, and I'm still not sure what it will mean for me even if we do. What I do know is the City government I work for is still planning on having a council meeting Monday, where they will be passing an ordinance that will give 5% raises to management, AKA the highest paid employees, and the ones who will almost certainly be allowed to work from home. Not the hourly employees who will continue to have to work in an unsafe environment. Not the firefighters or the police officers who are being exposed to the virus constantly - all of our unions have been fighting since January to get minimal raises and to keep our healthcare deductible from being raised to $13,500 (yes, THIRTEEN THOUSAND DOLLARS).
Not to mention, millions of people lost their jobs this week, including many that will probably not have a job to go back to after this. Thousands of people in our own community have been affected, which, guess what, means they won't be paying much in the way of City income tax, which is our main source of revenue. And they think a 5% raise is appropriate right now? 5% is insane even without the threat of economic collapse - typically 2.5-3% is the norm.
I just cannot believe how they are treating everything as business as usual. Sure, they shut the public out of the buildings, and they are bleaching the doorknobs nightly - cool, so the first person to touch it first thing in the morning won't catch anything. That's the extent of what they have done. I'm still handling documents that have been touched by 10 different people, because we operate in 1998 and EVERYTHING is hard copies, which is why I won't be allowed to work from home. People still walk into my office to ask me for stuff, instead of calling or emailing me. We are all still sharing a tiny break room (I wipe down the table myself, but Lord only knows how many people have touched the fridge door or the microwave). Our bathroom actually has TWO doors you have to go through to get in/out. Ohio's governor has stated that employers should be taking temperatures before people enter the building - we "do not have the capacity to comply with this request." We've already had one member of our department get sent home indefinitely because her daughter, who works at a grocery store, had flu like symptoms. So if she has it, then my coworker might have been carrying it, which means we've all been exposed. We've been told we can take any combo of leave we want if necessary, "subject to minimum staffing requirements." Which means even if we all get exposed, we can't all quarantine, because of vague reasons.
Do you know what I did Friday? I called a few businesses and asked for copies of invoices. I sent out bills for sidewalk repairs. And I filed about 200 pieces of paper in alphabetical order. I also received cancellation requests for about 10 different upcoming travel authorizations - this means I printed off emails, stapled them to the back of a packet of papers that made up the original travel request, and filed them in a drawer.
Sure. Essential. If I'm still working during a shelter-in-place order, that means my employer thinks all of the above is worth more than my life. I can say without a doubt that the government will still function and public safety will remain intact if those tasks are not completed.
Sorry for the rant. I just feel so unsafe, and I'm terrified of accidentally passing this on to someone who will suffer greatly, and I feel like my coworkers and I are being treated as expendable while being told we are essential, if that makes sense. I have never had anxiety issues but I feel like I am moments away from a panic attack at any given moment. I feel like the entire country is just holdings its breath and we are all suffocating. And there is no end in sight. A month ago I was planning a trip to Europe. Now I'm mapping out trips to the grocery store to spend as little time in there as possible.
Post by: Miclpea on March 21, 2020, 11:36:24 PM
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Post by: chocolateshake on March 22, 2020, 01:06:25 AM
Quite a few businesses are considered essential, and quite a few people have essential business. People are allowed to exercise outside by themselves. I still go grocery shopping and to the pharmacy, so traffic should not be zero under the current policy. However, I've seen many closed shops and the traffic is very light. Outside, it is quiet. People are staying inside.
Quite a few businesses that aren't essential are still open. My neighbor across the street has taken this time to redo his front yard. He's been bringing in supplies every day. Today was a load of sod. Is sod essential during this lockdown?
Those are the same rules they had in Italy. You could walk your dog. You could go out to exercise. Look at their numbers. It's been a disaster. The Chinese team dispatched to Italy to help out said this.
"In Lombardy "in the region most affected" by Coronavirus "unfortunately the policies are not yet as tight as according to our standards. People don't wear masks, there are still too many people around, public transport is still active and you eat too much in restaurants and hotels ». The vice president of the Chinese Red Cross, Sun Shuopeng, said this on Thursday morning"
According to earlier reports from the police, 40% of the people in Lombardy ignored the lockdown. In Response they are now sending in the military to enforce the lockdown.
It's literally the middle of the night, on that Hollywood cam people are still strolling down the street. Cars are still on the road.
We do not want to follow down the road that Italy took. Stay home.
Post by: Zero on March 22, 2020, 03:11:50 AM
The no return policy is because they are concern of getting infected goods back. That's why I quarantined everything I bought for a few days before using it. When I get something delivered I don't touch it for a few days. I don't even touch the mail for a few days.
I know. ^__~The molecular biologist in me is very aware of the fact that retailers are concerned with having infected goods. I was just pointing it out in the thread a quick status report of certain policies in place for many stores and supermarkets, in the event that this kind of thing becomes more common... which is probably safer in the long run.
Quite a few businesses are considered essential, and quite a few people have essential business. People are allowed to exercise outside by themselves. I still go grocery shopping and to the pharmacy, so traffic should not be zero under the current policy. However, I've seen many closed shops and the traffic is very light. Outside, it is quiet. People are staying inside.
I would have to agree, at least in the areas I live and frequent in San Diego. I can't say the same for elsewhere in the county, but it's quiet and empty where I am for the most part. People are staying inside, save the ones going out for groceries. It seems like the rush of panic shopping is starting to wind down in some aspects as well (it seems like people have enough items for a while now *face palms at the hoarding*), so there doesn't seem to be a lot of people out and about as before, especially in the last few days. After the governor announced California to be on lockdown protocols, there were many more instances of panic shopping that day though... The line to get inside Costco, for one thing.
Here's a tidbit for the thread:
I have some friends living and working in South Korea as well as former Korean students who've returned home after their study abroad programs at UCSD (but still keep in touch with me), and what is interesting is that they've told me that people didn't go panic shopping like in the U.S., with the primary exception of face masks. Even then, when there was a shortage for face masks, the government stepped in and gave orders for retailers to ration sales, so now there isn't much of a problem as before and people can have access to them.
My former students also keep asking me about the California lockdown (which made big international news in South Korea apparently) and the toilet paper hoarding and empty store shelves in the States... XD
Post by: Miss Kitty on March 22, 2020, 12:17:08 PM
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Post by: Miss Kitty on March 22, 2020, 12:30:44 PM
I for one am not eating out. Though with Onion #2 working at In-n-Out, it is tempting.
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Post by: puppy on March 22, 2020, 12:59:17 PM
Curious....how many of you are still eating out? (ie fast food, take out, etc)
I for one am not eating out. Though with Onion #2 working at In-n-Out, it is tempting.
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We do take out. I don't want those restaurants to go out of business.
Post by: accelerate on March 22, 2020, 01:09:35 PM
Overly cautious? Maybe. But I figure it doesn’t cost me anything to be this paranoid in these few weeks or months.
Post by: chocolateshake on March 22, 2020, 01:11:37 PM
I would consider take out if I could see that the people working at the restaurant wore masks and gloves though.
I ordered pizza for take out yesterday. I touched as little as the cardboard box as possible, and even wiping them down with damp cloth (though I doubt that in itself helped since you need something like soap to eliminate any viruses). After I opened the box, I washed my hands again before taking pizza out. I also wiped down the table the box touched.
It's not soap that eliminates viruses. It's water washing it away. Handwashing is a mechanical process. The role of soap is to keep it from falling back down on your skin once it's been dislodged. It gets between your skin and the dirt. Thus making it possible to be washed away by water. Rinsing under running water is the most important part of handwashing. From watching other people wash their hands, it's the part many people skimp on. It's the part I spend the most time on.
Post by: YouThinkMeMad on March 22, 2020, 01:23:08 PM
Curious....how many of you are still eating out? (ie fast food, take out, etc)
I for one am not eating out. Though with Onion #2 working at In-n-Out, it is tempting.
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From local places, yes. I want to help keep them in business.
Post by: mickeyjack3 on March 22, 2020, 01:45:48 PM
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Post by: Transmute Jun on March 22, 2020, 02:47:29 PM
Buy gift cards from your favorite local businesses. It gives them revenue to help them get by now without putting you or them at risk.
I'm really sorry for being so picky, but as an accountant, I have to correct this. You are giving them CASH, not revenue. It is actually unearned revenue (a liability) until you use the gift card, at which point it becomes revenue for them.
But you are helping with their cash flow, which is what may help them get through these trying economic times.
Oh, and we had Five Guys today. The bag came with a little note on it, from the owner, pointing out that this franchise is locally owned and that he appreciated the business.
Post by: mickeyjack3 on March 22, 2020, 02:52:08 PM
I'm really sorry for being so picky, but as an accountant, I have to correct this. You are giving them CASH, not revenue. It is actually unearned revenue (a liability) until you use the gift card, at which point it becomes revenue for them.I stand corrected. Whatever the nomenclature, if it helps local businesses make it past this time, provide them some cash flow.
But you are helping with their cash flow, which is what may help them get through these trying economic times.
Oh, and we had Five Guys today. The bag came with a little note on it, from the owner, pointing out that this franchise is locally owned and that he appreciated the business.
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Post by: Michael M on March 22, 2020, 04:36:42 PM
Post by: VeggieKitten on March 22, 2020, 05:10:26 PM
Post by: mark on March 22, 2020, 05:42:11 PM
I ordered Mexican food from a vegan restaurant, and they had some pantry items on their menu, including toilet paper, so I got a few rolls—just in time! I tipped the driver 20%.
That's pretty clever :)
We live in the SF bay area, but in a small coastal town that's a bit isolated. People seem to be taking this seriously for the most part. I finally had to go out for groceries today The shopping situation is kind of weird, the Safeway is still really bad but our local market had most things in stock. And there's another market just a mile or so up the road that people seem to have forgotten about that had plenty of most things, except paper products. (They also have, for reasons I've never understood, one of the best whiskey selections in the state.)
There are a lot of farms in the area though most don't sell direct. But now some have started doing produce deliveries and also deliveries from local restaurants, bakeries, even breweries.
Have to drive out of town tomorrow to move my son out of his college dorm since the rest of the year will be entirely online.
Post by: debster on March 22, 2020, 05:46:48 PM
Most people are working from home here, they're going to shut down all non-essential businesses starting tomorrow night.
Post by: puppy on March 22, 2020, 05:53:15 PM
Even though there have been numerous pleas from our mayor and governor to not congregate in groups (Connecticut), my town had to get the parks department to remove the basketball hoops and tennis nets in our local parks because people were playing pickup games and tennis. They also had to chain the dog park gate because even though there were signs saying it was closed, people were sneaking in there and not practicing social distancing. I would say the majority of people around here are being good, it's just a small group of residents who don't care.
Most people are working from home here, they're going to shut down all non-essential businesses starting tomorrow night.
People play tennis from quite a distance, so I don't think they have so much to fear from playing that game. Basketball, I get.
Post by: accelerate on March 22, 2020, 06:00:39 PM
It's not soap that eliminates viruses. It's water washing it away. Handwashing is a mechanical process. The role of soap is to keep it from falling back down on your skin once it's been dislodged. It gets between your skin and the dirt. Thus making it possible to be washed away by water. Rinsing under running water is the most important part of handwashing. From watching other people wash their hands, it's the part many people skimp on. It's the part I spend the most time on.
That's not entirely correct. Soap destroys the lipid fatty layer that surrounds the coronavirus, effectively destroying it. It's more effective at destroying the virus than hand sanitizer.
See this thread here: https://twitter.com/PalliThordarson/status/1236549305189597189
Post by: alyssa on March 22, 2020, 07:28:20 PM
Post by: chocolateshake on March 22, 2020, 07:32:37 PM
That's not entirely correct. Soap destroys the lipid fatty layer that surrounds the coronavirus, effectively destroying it. It's more effective at destroying the virus than hand sanitizer.
See this thread here: https://twitter.com/PalliThordarson/status/1236549305189597189
That link is to one opinion. Here is another.
"Soap has mild antibacterial properties, but it does not kill viruses."
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/feb/28/hand-sanitiser-or-hand-washing-which-more-effective-against-coronavirus-covid-19
Yes covid does have a lipid layer, it's an enveloped virus. That's the reason that hand sanitizer works on it at all. It doesn't work on viruses that don't have an envelope. Yes, that lipid layer is vulnerable to soap. Personally, I wouldn't count on soap doing a complete job. Even if it killed 99.9% of them, there's still quite a bit left. This link also gives a good explanation of how soap works to free dirt to be washed away.
https://www.quickanddirtytips.com/education/science/does-soap-really-kill-999-of-germs
What does work against all viruses, bacteria and general nastiness is washing your hands off with water. Water alone with no soap does the heavy lifting. Adding soap to the mix makes the wash even better.
"Through the use of water alone on both hands, the rate of diarrhea was cut by nearly half. Not bad for a little H2O. Adding in soap had a predictable effect, cutting the prevalence of diarrhea again by another 3.2 points, but the gains from soap clearly weren't as high as from scrubbing with water."
https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2012/06/soap-how-much-cleaner-does-it-actually-make-your-hands/258839/
Post by: chocolateshake on March 22, 2020, 07:41:56 PM
the Safeway is still really bad
I know that Safeway.
Post by: alyssa on March 22, 2020, 07:45:21 PM
I saw a lot of people out. Most were in family/couple groupings with very little large gatherings. The parking lots were closed. Apparently, the cops had just closed them due to gatherings. There were lots of folks in the water. I'm guessing it was a huge stress relief for them as riding 50+ miles was for me.
Post by: chocolateshake on March 22, 2020, 11:16:22 PM
https://www.cbs8.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/police-close-parking-lots-at-san-diego-beaches-as-crowds-ignore-coronavirus-stay-at-home-order/509-0ec3ed76-df70-44a6-831d-295c86214ab2b
Post by: omraged9 on March 23, 2020, 12:30:14 AM
For those who are eating takeout, you should probably be careful of the food that you eat. There was a medscape article posted on reddit that stated:
Quote
Patients with gastrointestinal (GI) symptoms who were admitted to the hospital and were diagnosed with COVID-19 were more likely to have severe disease than patients who did not have GI symptoms, according to findings published March 18 in the American Journal of Gastroenterology.
From: https://old.reddit.com/r/COVID19/comments/fmq6bb/digestive_symptoms_tied_to_worse_covid19_outcomes/
It sounds like maybe the safest thing to do is to microwave the takeout food for at least 15 seconds to kill any potential viruses in the food.
Post by: accelerate on March 23, 2020, 01:51:56 AM
Yeah that's too bad that beaches and parks are getting too crowded. They probably should be closed just to be safe. Nothing wrong with walking around your local neighborhood a few times to get your exercise in.
For those who are eating takeout, you should probably be careful of the food that you eat. There was a medscape article posted on reddit that stated:
From: https://old.reddit.com/r/COVID19/comments/fmq6bb/digestive_symptoms_tied_to_worse_covid19_outcomes/
It sounds like maybe the safest thing to do is to microwave the takeout food for at least 15 seconds to kill any potential viruses in the food.
Even my local neighborhood is getting crowded. Pre-Corona, on average, I’d pass 1-2 pedestrians for every 4 miles I ran, depending on time of day. Today, I passed at least 4-5 people per mile. I had to either run on the grass or on the street to avoid people.
Also, your link about people with GI symptoms worries me. I’ve had mild on-and-off gastritis for the past 2+ years. It’s mostly under control now, though I do have some flare ups here and there. So now I’m going to be extra-aware to any stomach pains I may be experiencing. To be fair, the article didn’t specifically call out gastritis. It only really mentioned anorexia.
Post by: chocolateshake on March 23, 2020, 11:59:41 AM
Even my local neighborhood is getting crowded. Pre-Corona, on average, I’d pass 1-2 pedestrians for every 4 miles I ran, depending on time of day. Today, I passed at least 4-5 people per mile. I had to either run on the grass or on the street to avoid people.
As I've reported earlier, other than things like the door at Costco, my neighborhood doesn't seem locked down at all. It seems the same as it always is. This is a problem. This is how Italy was. People didn't take it seriously. It's been a disaster. Now they are locked down tighter than Wuhan was. People aren't allowed out except once a week to buy groceries. I hope that doesn't happen here because people are ignoring the lockdown.
But the opposite may happen. Trump has tweeted that he may reverse course. Open things up and whatever happens happens. By news reports, there is a struggle inside the administration. There are some that argue that the economic damage is worse than the virus. A lockdown isn't worth it if it means slowing down the economy.
50% of the cases in the US are people between 18-49. Being young doesn't make you invulnerable. Stay home. Binge Netflix. It's not hard.
Post by: hikanteki on March 23, 2020, 01:24:38 PM
Buying gift cards is a nice idea, but unfortunately there's no guarantee that those restaurants are going to still be around to use them at once this is over. Sadly, I don't think that a lot of small businesses will make it out of this. A few places we like have already closed for good.
Post by: omraged9 on March 23, 2020, 05:21:36 PM
Even my local neighborhood is getting crowded. Pre-Corona, on average, I’d pass 1-2 pedestrians for every 4 miles I ran, depending on time of day. Today, I passed at least 4-5 people per mile. I had to either run on the grass or on the street to avoid people.
Also, your link about people with GI symptoms worries me. I’ve had mild on-and-off gastritis for the past 2+ years. It’s mostly under control now, though I do have some flare ups here and there. So now I’m going to be extra-aware to any stomach pains I may be experiencing. To be fair, the article didn’t specifically call out gastritis. It only really mentioned anorexia.
One thing about that article is that I believe their mention of "anorexia" is not related to the disorder of anorexia nervosa but just meaning that a symptom of the disease is lack or loss of appetite for food along with other GI symptoms. They're saying people who experience loss of appetite when they're sick shouldn't be really considered a significant symptom since it's a very common symptom when people get sick in general. But the other symptoms like diarrhea could be more indicative of possible COVID infection and a possible more severe case of it. So I don't think the article is saying people with underlying GI conditions is more at risk for this disease; they're just saying if you're suddenly getting severe GI symptoms, be wary.
Another big unusual symptom that's been mentioned recently that that infected people have been experiencing loss of taste and smell. And these people may have not have the usual strong fever or dry cough or shortness of breath symptoms. So I believe experts are saying if you're getting these unusual symptoms without the typical fever, etc., you should self-quarantine because you may be one of those "asymptomatic" carriers.
As I've reported earlier, other than things like the door at Costco, my neighborhood doesn't seem locked down at all. It seems the same as it always is. This is a problem. This is how Italy was. People didn't take it seriously. It's been a disaster. Now they are locked down tighter than Wuhan was. People aren't allowed out except once a week to buy groceries. I hope that doesn't happen here because people are ignoring the lockdown.
But the opposite may happen. Trump has tweeted that he may reverse course. Open things up and whatever happens happens. By news reports, there is a struggle inside the administration. There are some that argue that the economic damage is worse than the virus. A lockdown isn't worth it if it means slowing down the economy.
You know what's sad about this is that we didn't need to lockdown if our federal government were more vigilant about testing travelers and producing and distributing more masks in the beginning. I believe countries like South Korea and Taiwan never actually locked down the way we did because they were hyper vigilant and prepared for a potential epidemic back in January. Sure we can reverse course and lift the lockdown to try to stabilize the economy but are we willing to put people's lives at risk for this? No lockdown means there will be a large number of deaths.
Post by: chocolateshake on March 23, 2020, 08:35:21 PM
Sure we can reverse course and lift the lockdown to try to stabilize the economy but are we willing to put people's lives at risk for this? No lockdown means there will be a large number of deaths.
That's what they are considering. The reasoning is that saving a smaller number of lives is not worth harming a greater number of people financially. Those are the types of discussions that happen in this administration. Some in the administration consider the cure, economic hardship for a while, worse than the disease, people dying.
The truly sad part of all this is that the guidance to stay home is not working as well as it should. We are all paying the price economically but not realizing all the benefit for that cost. Many people are not staying home. They don't get it. It's just not some kids on the beach in Florida, it's all over. The reports of people not self isolating are all over the country. In some states more than others. It's a mess. We need federal leadership. We need a unified nationwide response.
Post by: omraged9 on March 23, 2020, 09:25:11 PM
That's what they are considering. The reasoning is that saving a smaller number of lives is not worth harming a greater number of people financially. Those are the types of discussions that happen in this administration. Some in the administration consider the cure, economic hardship for a while, worse than the disease, people dying.
The truly sad part of all this is that the guidance to stay home is not working as well as it should. We are all paying the price economically but not realizing all the benefit for that cost. Many people are not staying home. They don't get it. It's just not some kids on the beach in Florida, it's all over. The reports of people not self isolating are all over the country. In some states more than others. It's a mess. We need federal leadership. We need a unified nationwide response.
I totally agree. I posted earlier that I was pessimistic about this shutdown because most in other cities/states weren't participating and didn't really follow the guidelines. What our fellow Americans don't seem to realize is that the more they resist sequestering, the less successful our shutdown will be and so it means we will have to extend the shutdown. I'm normally against martial law types of shutdowns but I truly wonder if we'll need one for 2-3 weeks just to force everyone inside and try to kill the virus that way. A 2-3 week martial law shutdown is better than an ineffective 2-3 month shutdown for our economy.
Post by: puppy on March 23, 2020, 09:37:49 PM
That's what they are considering. The reasoning is that saving a smaller number of lives is not worth harming a greater number of people financially. Those are the types of discussions that happen in this administration. Some in the administration consider the cure, economic hardship for a while, worse than the disease, people dying.
The truly sad part of all this is that the guidance to stay home is not working as well as it should. We are all paying the price economically but not realizing all the benefit for that cost. Many people are not staying home. They don't get it. It's just not some kids on the beach in Florida, it's all over. The reports of people not self isolating are all over the country. In some states more than others. It's a mess. We need federal leadership. We need a unified nationwide response.
But is the number of lives saved actually small? All those people they count dying of COVID-19 in Italy might be "small," but add in the number of people who are dying because COVID-19 patients sucked up all the resources in Italy and then ask how many lives were actually lost there? Add to that, what do you consider "small"?
As for the lockdowns, I think there ought to be fines for people not obeying.
Post by: chocolateshake on March 24, 2020, 01:34:10 AM
But is the number of lives saved actually small? All those people they count dying of COVID-19 in Italy might be "small," but add in the number of people who are dying because COVID-19 patients sucked up all the resources in Italy and then ask how many lives were actually lost there? Add to that, what do you consider "small"?
As for the lockdowns, I think there ought to be fines for people not obeying.
I didn't say small. I said smaller. It's not my reasoning. It's the administration's. Trump was warned that if covid isn't brought under control that 2.2 million people could die in the US. Since even with that knowledge he is now leaning towards easing the restrictions to reopen the economy, he must think that's acceptable losses.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/trump-went-on-a-twitter-spree-urging-the-us-economy-to-go-back-to-business-as-usual-starting-as-early-as-next-week/ar-BB11A7qJ
If my opinion wasn't clear, I'll say it again. Stay home. Binge Netflix. It's not hard.
I don't know if fines will do much. The fine in Malta for breaking quarantine is 3000 euros. People still break quarantine.
We should have learned from Italy and Spain. They both started out with a light touch when they started their lockdowns. Too many people ignored it. It didn't work. Now they have had to move to hard lockdowns. Both countries have deployed the military to enforce the rules now. Basically, people can't go outside except for food.
The UK and Germany both learned from Italy and Spain. They started with strict lockdowns with the clear threat that things would get intense if people don't comply. The UK in particular turned around quickly. Even a week ago the said they weren't going to go down the lockdown route. They didn't even want to ban large gatherings.
Post by: Zero on March 24, 2020, 04:09:24 AM
There is now a confirmed case of COVID-19 at UC San Diego, as of March 23rd, 5:15 PM PDT. I got an e-mail sent out to all academics, staff, faculty, etc. that a student tested positive for the virus.
Here's the official announcement from UCSD for reference:
"We have learned that a member of our UC San Diego community has tested positive for COVID-19. The student resident has self-isolated and remains isolated while receiving care. The university is in contact with the student and is offering support during recovery. We are working closely with San Diego County Public Health officials and are following their guidance on notification to individuals with recent close contact. Please know that if there is a need for anyone to be isolated or tested they will be contacted."
(Source: https://coronavirus.ucsd.edu)
That's too close to home for me, seeing how I work at UCSD. While I've been working from home since Friday, March 20th, we weren't told to stay home until a day prior to that (at least for my department). Information regarding how long since the student had contracted the virus or where the student has been around town, on-campus and off-campus, is being investigated, according to the announcement, but I think the damage is already done... The virus is here, and there could be many more infected in this area and who are unaware of being a carrier.
It's even scarier now that it's in and around the school community in which I work. I agree with what has been said in this thread and can't reiterate this enough: Stay home as much as possible. Seriously, it could be closer to you than you realize, and it could affect you and your loved ones. The safest precautions are limiting yourself to potential exposure and staying home.
Post by: SyndE on March 24, 2020, 07:18:19 AM
City of Philadelphia proper on full lockdown/shelter in place since last week,
Four surrounding counties (Delaware, Chester, Montgomery, Bucks) put on full lockdown yesterday, March 23.
5-county area hit hard (esp. Montgomery and Philly proper), but thankfully we are far enough away from NYC and northern NJ to not have many daily commuters from those areas.
Been WFH since March 10 (office in Philly proper).
I consider a good day one that I get through without any mother's little helpers.
Post by: Michael M on March 24, 2020, 07:38:10 AM
Post by: omraged9 on March 24, 2020, 05:09:45 PM
Post by: puppy on March 24, 2020, 06:18:26 PM
I feel those worried more about the economical ramifications than the potential number of deaths should do some reading on what some East Asian countries like South Korea and Taiwan are doing and demand that we follow their protocols. These countries didn't have to shut down like we did to handle the outbreak. If we all were able to wear masks and have thermoscanners everywhere, we could actually stop our shutdown sooner than later. But since our federal government is incompetent and the voters are not holding them accountable, our shutdown will have to be extended longer than we want to.
We voted in that inept leadership. We can't do what those countries did for many reasons. We don't have their tools and that's why we shut down. It's the only weapon we have left. If he lifts this edict, he will have blood on his hands. The economy will collapse anyway from the sheer number of deaths. Our federal leadership is nonchalant and old. They'll probably catch it, too.
Post by: alyssa on March 24, 2020, 06:27:34 PM
The SD mayor closed all the beaches and hiking trails with threats of arrest with misdemeanor charges & up to $1,000 fines.
I dove up the shore today, by a bunch of the beaches. North of the SD, there were few people on the beach by Torry Pines
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200324/b94cc125b00aa797d5c2bef335235740.jpg)
I will say, there was a LOT of cops out, both in the beach parking lots and on the streets of SD! I was glad they were out in force but i was not planing any stops or interactions. There was noticeably less people about today then on Sunday.
Post by: Miclpea on March 24, 2020, 06:27:56 PM
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: alyssa on March 24, 2020, 07:14:15 PM
eta: https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/tourism/story/2020-03-23/convention-center-may-be-housing-the-homeless-but-that-doesnt-mean-comic-con-is-a-no-go?fbclid=IwAR22sbHS1JyF_alNCMowOfb40rEj9a0PJyZsAxZ1WnKxrSUcz-o8_wECbJQ
Post by: omraged9 on March 24, 2020, 07:30:09 PM
We voted in that inept leadership. We can't do what those countries did for many reasons. We don't have their tools and that's why we shut down. It's the only weapon we have left. If he lifts this edict, he will have blood on his hands. The economy will collapse anyway from the sheer number of deaths. Our federal leadership is nonchalant and old. They'll probably catch it, too.
I agree with you on everything except one part-- I still believe we can try to copy what other countries did. It's still not too late. We can use the Defense Production Act and force the factories in the US to start mass producing masks and also start producing thermoscanners (and ventilators too). It's sad if you read the news because our current administration doesn't want to enforce the Defense Production Act but our shutdown will be ineffective if we can't protect ourselves when the shutdown ends.
That's another thing I slowly realized last week, our government lied to us about the effectiveness of masks. Yes good quality surgical masks only protect health individuals about 85% or so but if everyone wears masks the number increases greatly. The point of having everyone wearing masks is that it helps prevent sick or asymptomatic individuals from spreading their viral particles to healthy individuals. It's too bad that they had to lie about this to us to a point where our current public mindset is that we shouldn't wear a mask if we're not sick... I know why they lied to us about it, it's because we have a masks shortage and yes health care workers deserve to get masks first. But if we really want to end the shutdown and restart the economy, we have to produce enough masks where everyone who goes out can have one to wear. Sadly, I don't think most Americans realize this. Maybe they can figure this out after another 1-2 months of shutdown.
Post by: puppy on March 25, 2020, 12:07:13 AM
The SD convention center is being readied to accept homeless folks in preparation for the onslaught of sickness. The idea is to get them into situations which are not overcrowded.
eta: https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/tourism/story/2020-03-23/convention-center-may-be-housing-the-homeless-but-that-doesnt-mean-comic-con-is-a-no-go?fbclid=IwAR22sbHS1JyF_alNCMowOfb40rEj9a0PJyZsAxZ1WnKxrSUcz-o8_wECbJQ
It's hard to think of the convention center as "not overcrowded."
Post by: Jim Watari on March 25, 2020, 08:50:51 AM
https://vocal.media/theSwamp/covid-pandemic-exposes-the-ugly-secrets-hidden-in-america-s-healthcare-system
Post by: YouThinkMeMad on March 25, 2020, 08:53:43 AM
Post by: Jim Watari on March 25, 2020, 08:59:00 AM
Post by: chocolateshake on March 25, 2020, 11:52:18 AM
Why am I not surprised by what is in this article :(
https://vocal.media/theSwamp/covid-pandemic-exposes-the-ugly-secrets-hidden-in-america-s-healthcare-system
This epidemic makes obvious to the public what we have here in the US. The worst health care system of all developed nations and poor even compared to many developing ones. The only thing we are first at in health care is in how much we pay.
Post by: Miclpea on March 25, 2020, 12:20:47 PM
This epidemic makes obvious to the public what we have here in the US. The worst health care system of all developed nations and poor even compared to many developing ones. The only thing we are first at in health care is in how much we pay.Preach! I totally agree.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Post by: puppy on March 25, 2020, 01:18:39 PM
This epidemic makes obvious to the public what we have here in the US. The worst health care system of all developed nations and poor even compared to many developing ones. The only thing we are first at in health care is in how much we pay.
People keep asking why we can't be like South Korea. Face it; we are more like Italy than South Korea.
Post by: perc2100 on March 25, 2020, 02:06:53 PM
People keep asking why we can't be like South Korea. Face it; we are more like Italy than South Korea.Really face it: we're worse off than Italy. We have less tests per capita than any civilized nation, and a Federal government that doesn't seem interested it treating a pandemic and more interested in nurturing stock portfolios.
Post by: mickeyjack3 on March 25, 2020, 02:57:14 PM
Really face it: we're worse off than Italy. We have less tests per capita than any civilized nation, and a Federal government that doesn't seem interested it treating a pandemic and more interested in nurturing stock portfolios.
While I may agree with you, I've always found this forum a great place to escape the political echo chambers of the major social media sites. There are people from a broad political spectrum on this site, and all should feel welcome here. We're Geeks. We're united in our geekdom.
Post by: omraged9 on March 25, 2020, 04:02:08 PM
While I may agree with you, I've always found this forum a great place to escape the political echo chambers of the major social media sites. There are people from a broad political spectrum on this site, and all should feel welcome here. We're Geeks. We're united in our geekdom.
I think a big part of the problem is that our health care system has been politicized and it shouldn't be. There should be frank discussions on how broken our health care system is and what we can do to fix it. Because it can be and should be fixed. Not only that, we all should be educated on how and why exactly it is broken and not just be told that it is. I'm not sure why there is a big fear of copying other countries. I think we should look at the potential health care systems out there and see what's the best and most realistic for us to emulate.
Post by: chocolateshake on March 25, 2020, 04:38:42 PM
I think a big part of the problem is that our health care system has been politicized and it shouldn't be. There should be frank discussions on how broken our health care system is and what we can do to fix it. Because it can be and should be fixed. Not only that, we all should be educated on how and why exactly it is broken and not just be told that it is. I'm not sure why there is a big fear of copying other countries. I think we should look at the potential health care systems out there and see what's the best and most realistic for us to emulate.
Taiwan offers an example of where they put politics aside to make healthcare better for all. It used to have a patchwork system much like the US. Now it's single payer for all. Their system has handled this epidemic better than most.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/26/upshot/the-leap-to-single-payer-what-taiwan-can-teach.html
Post by: omraged9 on March 25, 2020, 06:43:57 PM
Taiwan offers an example of where they put politics aside to make healthcare better for all. It used to have a patchwork system much like the US. Now it's single payer for all. Their system has handled this epidemic better than most.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/26/upshot/the-leap-to-single-payer-what-taiwan-can-teach.html
I love how Taiwan is handling it. Believe me, that's my country right there (btw did you know their VP is an epidemiologist?). But I think we have to be realistic that we're not going to be able to copy Taiwan right now. We should look at more realistic models, like South Korea or Japan. But this is just looking at how they're handling the outbreak so far. If you're talking about changing our entire health care system after this crisis is over, I don't think jumping into single payer is realistic right now. I think it's safer to change in smaller steps. We should look at a country like Germany who apparently have both a strong yet affordable public health care system and also private health insurance options who want better coverage. They have their universal health care coverage between their two types.
Post by: chocolateshake on March 25, 2020, 10:35:19 PM
Is this what it feels like to win a Conan ticket?
Post by: marcia29 on March 26, 2020, 04:45:19 AM
Post by: YouThinkMeMad on March 26, 2020, 05:30:35 AM
The Florida governor has decided that anyone flying into Florida from New York, New Jersey, or Connecticut MUST self isolate and be tracked for 14 days. Wonder if that would nclude the President, who has his primary residence in Palm Beach?🙄
Maryland has done the same thing.
Post by: alyssa on March 26, 2020, 07:20:51 AM
https://youtu.be/sjDuwc9KBps
Post by: chocolateshake on March 26, 2020, 01:28:32 PM
I think people should at least do what's shown in the video. The one criticism I have is that he contaminates both his hands by handling things on the dirty half of the table and then uses those same dirty hands to touch the clean stuff. That defeats the purpose. When I do things like this, I keep one hand clean at all times. So then I can use the clean hand to pull out that bag of cereal from the contaminated box.
Think about your mail too. I set that aside for days as well.
Post by: chocolateshake on March 26, 2020, 01:36:32 PM
I love how Taiwan is handling it. Believe me, that's my country right there (btw did you know their VP is an epidemiologist?). But I think we have to be realistic that we're not going to be able to copy Taiwan right now. We should look at more realistic models, like South Korea or Japan. But this is just looking at how they're handling the outbreak so far. If you're talking about changing our entire health care system after this crisis is over, I don't think jumping into single payer is realistic right now. I think it's safer to change in smaller steps. We should look at a country like Germany who apparently have both a strong yet affordable public health care system and also private health insurance options who want better coverage. They have their universal health care coverage between their two types.
Japan, South Korea and Taiwan have been able to handle covid the way they have is because of the health care systems they have. That infrastructure enabled them to tackle it. We don't have that infrastructure. So I don't see how we can do what they did.
Taiwan has private health insurance. I can't think of a country with universal healthcare that doesn't. The UK has it. Even Canada has it. Having universal healthcare doesn't mean there isn't a private option. It just means that everyone is guarantee at least a certain level of health care.
Post by: omraged9 on March 26, 2020, 05:21:07 PM
Japan, South Korea and Taiwan have been able to handle covid the way they have is because of the health care systems they have. That infrastructure enabled them to tackle it. We don't have that infrastructure. So I don't see how we can do what they did.
Taiwan has private health insurance. I can't think of a country with universal healthcare that doesn't. The UK has it. Even Canada has it. Having universal healthcare doesn't mean there isn't a private option. It just means that everyone is guarantee at least a certain level of health care.
Yeah I think that's great for those countries. I may have to take back what I said about Japan though. I think there's been some indication that they might also be hiding their numbers. OTOH, I should add a country like Germany to the model countries category to emulate. According to NYTimes, they're testing almost 500K per week and they have a fatality rate of 0.4%.
Post by: Iris on March 26, 2020, 07:18:21 PM
I set groceries, and everything else, aside for 4 days. Even before this epidemic, I would set things aside. I would wash perishables like milk cartons before putting them into the fridge. Now I don't buy anything perishable. I miss bread. They don't ship it. I'm thinking about ordering a bread machine and a big bag of flour.
As someone who LOVES making bread, you don't even need a bread maker, especially if you have a good stand mixer OR a good oven safe pan for no knead bread. I definitely recommend learning to make bread and keeping the ingredients on hand.
When we couldn't get bread at the store, I made some and it was delicious. Plus, nothing beats fresh out of the oven bread, that crisp, that softness, the warmth. Granted, I grew up eating fresh bread made by my mum and great grandmum. My mum used to have a bread maker when I was younger but she got rid of it when we consolidated homes when she remarried. I think she regretted getting rid of it because she does not have the patience to get out my stand mixer and make bread. (Plus, she actually HATES baking with a passion, it's hilarious to bake with her.)
No knead bread is a must to learn, it's delicious and goes with so many things and is so simple so long as you have the materials.
___
On a check-in note, I developed a bad fever on and off the last few days as well as a dry cough that comes and goes. Yesterday I was able to remote into work for 9 hours, but today I could barely sit up most of the day or get to my phone. There's a good chance I have it, since I've likely been exposed through my mum (nurse practitioner who is actively testing people in full gear through UCSD's express care facilities.) But I'm still holding onto hope it's just the flu and allergies at the same time.
As soon as we got the order to stay at home and I got sick before then, I've been self-quarantining. I only leave my bed to get water, meds, food, and the bathroom.
Post by: omraged9 on March 26, 2020, 09:27:22 PM
On a check-in note, I developed a bad fever on and off the last few days as well as a dry cough that comes and goes. Yesterday I was able to remote into work for 9 hours, but today I could barely sit up most of the day or get to my phone. There's a good chance I have it, since I've likely been exposed through my mum (nurse practitioner who is actively testing people in full gear through UCSD's express care facilities.) But I'm still holding onto hope it's just the flu and allergies at the same time.
As soon as we got the order to stay at home and I got sick before then, I've been self-quarantining. I only leave my bed to get water, meds, food, and the bathroom.
I hope it's not Covid-19 :( I'd try to drink as much hot/warm water as possible, take Tylenol for the fever, and take any zinc supplements you can find (though be careful with the amount because too much is toxic). I would contact your primary care doctor and ask them if they're willing to prescribe hydroxychloroquine or azithromycin for you if you start getting pneumonia-like symptoms. Be watchful of your symptoms daily for the next 7-10 days. There's been anecdotal reports how sometimes people can feel better one day and suddenly have full-on pneumonia and can't breathe the next day. I'd ask family members or close friends to monitor you daily and be ready to drive you to the hospital if it suddenly gets bad like that.
Post by: hikanteki on March 26, 2020, 09:40:06 PM
Yeah I think that's great for those countries. I may have to take back what I said about Japan though. I think there's been some indication that they might also be hiding their numbers. OTOH, I should add a country like Germany to the model countries category to emulate. According to NYTimes, they're testing almost 500K per week and they have a fatality rate of 0.4%.
Germans, by definition, are masters at social distancing.
Post by: chocolateshake on March 26, 2020, 10:52:54 PM
I would contact your primary care doctor and ask them if they're willing to prescribe hydroxychloroquine or azithromycin for you if you start getting pneumonia-like symptoms.
Please do not do that. There is no evidence that chloroquine does anything for covid and contrary to what the President says, it can hurt you. There are pit falls to chloroquine. It's not even widely used as a malaria drug anymore. This fad of hoarding unproven drugs is destroying the supply for people that legitimately need it. People on Lupus can't get it now. Those people do need it. It works for them. Hype is hurting real people.
Small study from China showing that chloroquine does nothing for covid.
http://www.zjujournals.com/med/CN/10.3785/j.issn.1008-9292.2020.03.03
People on Lupus now can't get the drug they need because of this hype.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/hydroxychloroquine-scarce-due-to-hope-it-could-be-covid-19-treatment-posing-crisis-for-lupus-patient/ar-BB11ICKw
Post by: omraged9 on March 26, 2020, 11:49:42 PM
Please do not do that. There is no evidence that chloroquine does anything for covid and contrary to what the President says, it can hurt you. There are pit falls to chloroquine. It's not even widely used as a malaria drug anymore. This fad of hoarding unproven drugs is destroying the supply for people that legitimately need it. People on Lupus can't get it now. Those people do need it. It works for them. Hype is hurting real people.
Small study from China showing that chloroquine does nothing for covid.
http://www.zjujournals.com/med/CN/10.3785/j.issn.1008-9292.2020.03.03
People on Lupus now can't get the drug they need because of this hype.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/hydroxychloroquine-scarce-due-to-hope-it-could-be-covid-19-treatment-posing-crisis-for-lupus-patient/ar-BB11ICKw
I disagree. You have to ignore that Trump suddenly politicized the drug. You have to look at all the potential data out there about chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine, not just one study. Here's a bunch of articles I saved the links for to give you an idea of why other countries like South Korea are using HCQ in their treatment:
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41587-020-00003-1 (early look at potential drugs for treatment)
http://www.koreabiomed.com/news/articleView.html?idxno=7428
https://aac.asm.org/content/53/8/3416
https://academic.oup.com/cid/advance-article/doi/10.1093/cid/ciaa237/5801998?searchresult=1
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/32074550
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41421-020-0156-0.pdf
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41422-020-0282-0
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0924857920300820
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4182877/
https://journals.plos.org/plospathogens/article?id=10.1371/journal.ppat.1001176
https://medium.com/@adrianbye/is-the-high-coronavirus-death-rate-caused-by-wrong-official-treatment-guidelines-f4ef0a2903f3
Previous HCQ research for original SARs in 2009:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19506054/
You have to pay attention to what other countries are doing right now to treat it. There's also other hospitals that are getting hit starting to use it now
https://www.wcvb.com/article/drug-that-treats-malaria-being-used-by-boston-doctors-to-treat-covid-19/31803741#
https://www.forbes.com/sites/lisettevoytko/2020/03/22/new-york-to-begin-clinical-trials-for-coronavirus-treatment-tuesday-cuomo-says/#21e140c54203
It's true that there are no ideal peer-review clinical trials to point to in showing that it definitely helps with treatment of covid. But there won't be any conclusive trials until probably next year. When there's an epidemic, can we afford to sit back and let people get worse with no treatment when there's a potential drug that can help decrease the severity of the disease?
I do feel bad for lupus and rheumatoid arthritis patients who are effected by the shortage. Thankfully some companies are stepping up in producing the drug. Hopefully there won't be a shortage for too long.
https://www.novartis.com/news/media-releases/novartis-commits-donate-130-million-doses-hydroxychloroquine-support-global-covid-19-pandemic-response
https://www.europeanpharmaceuticalreview.com/news/115687/anti-malarial-drugs-donated-to-aid-fight-against-covid-19/
I've been following the progress of this potential drug treatment for the past month. To me, this has the most potential right now compared to some of the initial antivirals used like Kaletra, a HIV drug. Remdesivir is potentially the most promising but FDA approval will take a long time.
Anyhow, don't let someone like Trump politicize the drug for you. Look at the research that was available before he mentioned it.
Post by: chocolateshake on March 27, 2020, 01:40:56 AM
I disagree. You have to ignore that Trump suddenly politicized the drug. You have to look at all the potential data out there about chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine, not just one study. Here's a bunch of articles I saved the links for to give you an idea of why other countries like South Korea are using HCQ in their treatment:
A lot of those links you posted don't have anything to do with covid, they talk about using chloroquine for other purposes. Other links refer to chloroquine as an anti-viral, it's not approved as an anti-viral that I know of. The only link in all those you posted that I saw that directly discusses chloroquine and covid was an experiment done in vitro, in a "test tube". There's a lot of stuff that works in a test tube that doesn't work in a living organism. Chloroquine was looked at as a drug to treat HIV and SARS. It showed promise in vitro. SARS was the novel coronavirus of it's day. That promise didn't translate.
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(03)00806-5/fulltext
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1232869/
There's only one study concerning efficacy of chloroquine on covid in humans. That's the study I posted. Many of those links you posted are hopes and prayers, not science.
My opinion has nothing to do with Trump politicizing it. There is simply no evidence that chloroquine is effective in treating covid. This happened during the SARS outbreak as well. People were convinced that steroids were the magic cure. Looking back, it wasn't. In fact, it did more harm than good. Here are a couple of papers about steroids and SARS. The first was a pro/con about it as it happened. Sounds familiar doesn't it?
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC420028/
And here is look back about what happened because some people went ahead because they thought steroids were the answer.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3892599/
Right now, people are throwing every possible drug they can think of at covid in hopes that something will work. I would not be surprised if someone swears that the miracle drug, aspirin, is the answer. It would be great if an existing drug was an effective treatment. I would be ecstatic if that was chloroquine. But right now there is no evidence that chloroquine or any other existing drug is effective.
Post by: Iris on March 27, 2020, 10:32:05 AM
I hope it's not Covid-19 :( I'd try to drink as much hot/warm water as possible, take Tylenol for the fever, and take any zinc supplements you can find (though be careful with the amount because too much is toxic). I would contact your primary care doctor and ask them if they're willing to prescribe hydroxychloroquine or azithromycin for you if you start getting pneumonia-like symptoms. Be watchful of your symptoms daily for the next 7-10 days. There's been anecdotal reports how sometimes people can feel better one day and suddenly have full-on pneumonia and can't breathe the next day. I'd ask family members or close friends to monitor you daily and be ready to drive you to the hospital if it suddenly gets bad like that.
I've been in contact with my GP and my mum who's a nurse practitioner helping treat/refer covid-19 patients.
I'm carefully watching for worsening symptoms. So far they're coming and going, one day is good and then the next day is insanely bad. My mum is home from work for the next three days so she's keeping an eye on me for now just in case.
The only problem with getting meds prescribed is that I'm on A LOT of medications already (I have a few chronic conditions and a cerebrovascular disease.) So, I basically need to consult with pharmacists and my specialists any time something more than the basics need to be prescribed, thus I'm waiting until it's actually needed. Of note, my liver enzymes have been slightly elevated lately, so I'm definitely not adding any other meds unless absolutely necessary.
I've been told to mainly self-quarantine, hydrate (which I always drink at least 2.5L a day,) watch for fevers and treat them, etc. Currently, I'm not too worried unless I start developing breathing issues, if that happens I'm going straight to the ER. I'm young, not immunocompromised despite all my issues, and generally healthy. So unless it takes a turn for the worse, I'm going to try and remain as calm as my anxiety disorder allows.
At this point, even in California I don't qualify for testing for it yet unless I worsen. I'm basically resting in bed, hydrating, taking tylenol as needed, playing a lot of video games to kill time, and working remotely when I feel up to it. Thank god for the timing of Animal Crossing: New Horizons.
Post by: chocolateshake on March 27, 2020, 02:12:31 PM
Italy is serious about self isolating now. After a shaky start, if someone that has tested positive is caught outside their home the penalty is 1-5 years in prison.
China is concerned that even with the lockdown lifted, that some people will not be willing to leave their homes.
Covid is not just a health and economic shock. It's a social shock. It will take months for things to get back to normal even once the all clear is sounded. Somethings will probably not change. How many people won't think about it in the future when the person behind them in line is coughing right into their neck?
Post by: omraged9 on March 27, 2020, 05:16:13 PM
A lot of those links you posted don't have anything to do with covid, they talk about using chloroquine for other purposes. Other links refer to chloroquine as an anti-viral, it's not approved as an anti-viral that I know of. The only link in all those you posted that I saw that directly discusses chloroquine and covid was an experiment done in vitro, in a "test tube". There's a lot of stuff that works in a test tube that doesn't work in a living organism. Chloroquine was looked at as a drug to treat HIV and SARS. It showed promise in vitro. SARS was the novel coronavirus of it's day. That promise didn't translate.
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(03)00806-5/fulltext
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1232869/
There's only one study concerning efficacy of chloroquine on covid in humans. That's the study I posted. Many of those links you posted are hopes and prayers, not science.
My opinion has nothing to do with Trump politicizing it. There is simply no evidence that chloroquine is effective in treating covid. This happened during the SARS outbreak as well. People were convinced that steroids were the magic cure. Looking back, it wasn't. In fact, it did more harm than good. Here are a couple of papers about steroids and SARS. The first was a pro/con about it as it happened. Sounds familiar doesn't it?
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC420028/
And here is look back about what happened because some people went ahead because they thought steroids were the answer.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3892599/
Right now, people are throwing every possible drug they can think of at covid in hopes that something will work. I would not be surprised if someone swears that the miracle drug, aspirin, is the answer. It would be great if an existing drug was an effective treatment. I would be ecstatic if that was chloroquine. But right now there is no evidence that chloroquine or any other existing drug is effective.
I disagree, I don't feel many anecdotal reports are zero evidence. And you can't compare a drug like hydroxychloroquine to steroids and aspirin. They're all different drugs. You're making a disingenuous argument in making them sound like the same drugs. You're assuming a drug like HCQ is a "miracle drug" which no one, including myself, has said it is. The only person who said it was Trump and we know not to believe anything he says. But if it is found to help lessen the severity of covid-19, then doctors should consider prescribing it. If it's all fake news, then why are there countless trials starting in testing it out?
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/32171740
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/27/who-officials-enroll-first-patients-from-norway-and-spain-in-historic-coronavirus-drug-trial.html
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/03/26/trump-keeps-touting-an-unproven-coronavirus-treatment-its-now-being-tested-thousands-new-york/
Yes theoretically if there were no epidemic, we should wait for these trial studies to finish and see their conclusions before prescribing them. But if you or family members get sick now and, if certain members have underlying conditions that put them more at risk, are you going to ignore all the positive anecdotal reports? I can tell you that from the few doctors I've talked to, the ones who understand the low profile side effects of HCQ, they would choose to take it.
ETA: Reddit found another new published article that touts the drug:
https://old.reddit.com/r/COVID19/comments/fq5tzl/clinical_and_microbiological_effect_of_a/
I've been in contact with my GP and my mum who's a nurse practitioner helping treat/refer covid-19 patients.
I'm carefully watching for worsening symptoms. So far they're coming and going, one day is good and then the next day is insanely bad. My mum is home from work for the next three days so she's keeping an eye on me for now just in case.
The only problem with getting meds prescribed is that I'm on A LOT of medications already (I have a few chronic conditions and a cerebrovascular disease.) So, I basically need to consult with pharmacists and my specialists any time something more than the basics need to be prescribed, thus I'm waiting until it's actually needed. Of note, my liver enzymes have been slightly elevated lately, so I'm definitely not adding any other meds unless absolutely necessary.
I've been told to mainly self-quarantine, hydrate (which I always drink at least 2.5L a day,) watch for fevers and treat them, etc. Currently, I'm not too worried unless I start developing breathing issues, if that happens I'm going straight to the ER. I'm young, not immunocompromised despite all my issues, and generally healthy. So unless it takes a turn for the worse, I'm going to try and remain as calm as my anxiety disorder allows.
At this point, even in California I don't qualify for testing for it yet unless I worsen. I'm basically resting in bed, hydrating, taking tylenol as needed, playing a lot of video games to kill time, and working remotely when I feel up to it. Thank god for the timing of Animal Crossing: New Horizons.
Yes I would agree, if you have other medications that could interact poorly with either HCQ or azithromycin, then you shouldn't take it. I would look into taking zinc supplements (non toxic amount) and make sure it doesn't interact badly with your current meds. Good luck and keep us posted.
Post by: chocolateshake on March 27, 2020, 07:01:17 PM
I disagree, I don't feel many anecdotal reports are zero evidence.
Why is snake oil no longer a thing? Because anecdotes are not evidence of efficacy. I'll stick with science.
ETA: Reddit found another new published article that touts the drug:
An article full of anecdotes is still just a bunch of anecdotes.
Post by: omraged9 on March 27, 2020, 07:37:14 PM
Why is snake oil no longer a thing? Because anecdotes are not evidence of efficacy. I'll stick with science.
An article full of anecdotes is still just a bunch of anecdotes.
Numerous clinical trials starting to study this drug is considered snake oil? Wow, ok. I guess you need to tell these doctors here in the US and multiple countries like South Korea, France, Spain, etc. who've been prescribing HCQ have been using snake oil. And also all the researchers who've been conducting these studies are peddling snake oil and not conducting real science.
As for anecdotes being anecdotes, well I guess we should ignore all the anecdotes of patients having covid-19 symptoms or doctors seeing patients die from covid-19 disease. Technically none of it has been scientifically proven yet, it's all "a bunch of anecdotes."
Post by: Devorah on March 27, 2020, 07:57:44 PM
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Post by: Miss Kitty on March 27, 2020, 08:42:36 PM
My friend gave me a heads up for a company hiring. Idk what to do?! I am still with the company, just not making money as of next Friday.
My nurse friend said a lot of people, including homeless, are coming in with a bad cough. They aren't even trying, but testing them as if they have covid-19. Another friend that owns a clinic said they rent getting the test kits and also just testing as if they have the virus. So the numbers we are hearing are totally higher.
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Post by: puppy on March 27, 2020, 10:28:59 PM
I'm excited and nervous to go out on our weekly shopping trek tomorrow.
My friend gave me a heads up for a company hiring. Idk what to do?! I am still with the company, just not making money as of next Friday.
My nurse friend said a lot of people, including homeless, are coming in with a bad cough. They aren't even trying, but testing them as if they have covid-19. Another friend that owns a clinic said they rent getting the test kits and also just testing as if they have the virus. So the numbers we are hearing are totally higher.
This is why you don't look at the number of cases. You look at the number of people hospitalized and/or dying/dead. That will give you a better idea of how bad it is.
When the hospitals start getting overloaded, you look only at the people who are dead, not the ones hospitalized, because those that should be hospitalized will be pushed back out onto the streets while they are still very sick to free up beds. I hear that is starting to happen in some places.
Post by: chocolateshake on March 28, 2020, 11:22:21 PM
On another note, San Diego is getting serious about enforcing the stay at home mandate. On the news today they said that a violation is up to a $1000 and/or 6 months in jail.
Post by: alyssa on March 29, 2020, 10:19:58 AM
Having been out and about on my motorcycle a bit, my sense is the cops are not being jerks but just moving people along. I drive by the beaches & noted no one sitting but a fair amout of folks moving- walking/ jogging etc. It really seems as tho the cops understand folks need to move around for sanity. They are very present but I have not seen them confront anybody. I am only on the coast & north of SD tho. I have no idea what's happening south of the city proper.
On another note, San Diego is getting serious about enforcing the stay at home mandate. On the news today they said that a violation is up to a $1000 and/or 6 months in jail.
i do have a question for locals, how are the grocery stores doing? I'm going to need to go out this week for food.
I've got my list but am worried about not being able to get everything at one stop. Have folks found it's better to go in the morning? any tips for getting everything i need. (i'm set for tp lol)
Post by: chocolateshake on March 29, 2020, 12:00:10 PM
Regarding grocery shopping, here is the latest study about how long covid lives on surfaces and what in the house can kill it. To my surprise, the surface it lives the longest on is a face mask. Since a mask is so fibrous, I thought it would be similar to paper or cloth. It's not. The outside is still infectious after 7 days. Steel and plastic can be infectious up to 7 days. So I'm upping my grocery isolation to 7 days from 4 to err on the side of caution.
This study hasn't been peer reviewed and thus not published, so keep that in mind.
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.15.20036673v2
Post by: rabbitwarren on March 29, 2020, 12:32:54 PM
Instacart shoppers are supposedly striking beginning tomorrow. I have an order for Tuesday but I would understand if the shopper cancels. The fact they want at the very least mask, gloves, and sanitizer is hardly unreasonable.
Post by: accelerate on March 29, 2020, 12:50:09 PM
I’m still running about the same amount (50-60 miles a week), so that wouldn’t explain the loss. Maybe my actual meals are smaller? I have no idea.
Post by: chocolateshake on March 29, 2020, 01:45:44 PM
Instacart shoppers are supposedly striking beginning tomorrow. I have an order for Tuesday but I would understand if the shopper cancels. The fact they want at the very least mask, gloves, and sanitizer is hardly unreasonable.
I don't see how they can strike, they aren't employees. Instacart classifies them as independent contractors. Being contractors, they can choose not to work whenever they feel like it. So the San Diego DA is trying to reinstate an injunction against Instacart. Since they should be classified as employees. If the DA succeeds, then Instacart will be shutdown until they accept that the people that work for them are employees.
I notice that other delivery people also don't use PPE. I think that everyone that interacts with the public should have PPE equipment. Not just to protect themselves, but their customers as well. For all we know, the delivery person is one of the 86% of people that are infectious but show little or no symptoms.
Post by: Miss Kitty on March 29, 2020, 09:39:39 PM
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Post by: omraged9 on March 30, 2020, 12:20:18 AM
https://www.ktvu.com/news/police-warn-about-door-to-door-coronavirus-scams
https://www.localdvm.com/news/maryland/covid-19-door-knocking-scam-in-allegany-and-garrett-counties/
Post by: alyssa on March 30, 2020, 08:58:13 AM
The San Diego Sheriff has said publicly that they don't have the manpower to enforce the mandate, so they aren't even trying at this point. When the San Diego mayor was asked about an enforcement issue, he sidestepped it by referring back to what the Sheriff said so that it's not an issue. I don't think the authorities want to confront people. They want voluntary cooperation for now.
That tracks with what I've seen on my motorcycle rides. I took a drive along the north beaches on sunday.
Regarding grocery shopping, here is the latest study about how long covid lives on surfaces and what in the house can kill it. To my surprise, the surface it lives the longest on is a face mask. Since a mask is so fibrous, I thought it would be similar to paper or cloth. It's not. The outside is still infectious after 7 days. Steel and plastic can be infectious up to 7 days. So I'm upping my grocery isolation to 7 days from 4 to err on the side of caution.
This study hasn't been peer reviewed and thus not published, so keep that in mind.
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.15.20036673v2
I'm comfortable following this advice with some slight modifications. I do use quarantine as an option if the item can tolerate it and I don't need it asap ;)
https://youtu.be/sjDuwc9KBps
Post by: mark on March 30, 2020, 10:28:36 AM
We've started doing Zoom happy hours, if only to see some different faces :)
Our neighbors daughter turned 21 yesterday, they couldn't have a party of course so instead her friends got dressed up, decorated their cars and made a parade of sorts up and down the street.
My son starts his college spring quarter today, he's less excited about that. Though my daughter has taken to remote learning like a fish to water.
As for me, well I finally got past Candy Crush level 3315.
Post by: alyssa on March 30, 2020, 10:58:21 AM
We live close to beaches and right around the corner from a large county park and the closures have had a noticeable impact. No force on earth is going to keep surfers and mountain bikers from going about their day but closing the parking lots, etc mean most people aren't driving in anymore.
yeah, i've noticed that LOL
same goes for road bikers & motorcycle riders! I am grateful the cops aren't giving those of us who do solitary activity outside, a hard time.
the people i feel sorry for are gym folks, especially if they can't run due to knees. They are going crazy.
fyi, I have a premium membership to https://boardgamearena.com/. I can invite regular free members to a private game if anyone is interested.
Post by: Miss Kitty on March 30, 2020, 01:39:47 PM
It's a smaller place there, so I figure that's how they can do it. Big metro places, I have no idea how they are going to keep people from gathering. Did you hear about the church in Florida?!?!??? I think the sheriff is going to arrest the pastor.
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Post by: chocolateshake on March 30, 2020, 02:02:50 PM
It's a smaller place there, so I figure that's how they can do it. Big metro places, I have no idea how they are going to keep people from gathering. Did you hear about the church in Florida?!?!??? I think the sheriff is going to arrest the pastor.
He's already arrested.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/coronavirus-florida-pastor-arrested-tampa-florida-church-jammed-sunday-service-despite-pandemic/
There's also a church in Louisiana with the same problem. They had a service with 1200 people. I don't think that will be allowed to go on much longer since the Governor of Louisiana talked about the problem himself. I don't see him letting them continue to defy the order. Especially since they are the up and coming hotspot.
As for enforcement, some places are more aggressive about enforcement already. They are going door to door looking for New Yorkers. In big cities, it may get to the point where the military is deployed to enforce stay at home. That had to happen in Spain and Italy.
Please people, do as an ER doc has pleaded "Stay the F home."
Post by: alyssa on April 01, 2020, 06:54:02 AM
According to news 10 abc, the peak in SD/CA will happen around April 25th & we're on track to have enough hospital beds.
There's also reports that a cruse ship knowingly hid an Covid infected person so they could disembarked passengers here in SD.
One more, i don't know how much play the carrier USS Roosevelt is getting in the rest of the country but it's getting a fair amount of airtime here due to SD being it's home port. The # of infected sailors has jumped from 3 to 200. I believe i heard the higher-ups have denied a request from the captain to disembark 90% of the sailors so they could maintain the 6' distancing.
Post by: chocolateshake on April 01, 2020, 12:23:01 PM
There's also reports that a cruse ship knowingly hid an Covid infected person so they could disembarked passengers here in SD.
Looks like they did. They reported no cases of covid so they could dock. When they docked a passenger was taken away by ambulance. If I remember the reporting that morning correctly, it was said that the passenger was taken away for reasons unrelated to covid. Then yesterday as people were disembarking the news was released, that passenger and 3 crew members tested positive for covid.
Post by: chocolateshake on April 02, 2020, 05:47:19 PM
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/02/san-diego-hospital-prepares-for-slow-moving-tsunami-of-coronavirus-cases-as-supplies-run-short.html
On another note, the captain of the aircraft carrier that publicly called for help because of the outbreak on board has been relieved of duty.
Oh yeah, the Sheriff today said to report people violating the rules to law enforcement. $1000 fine and/or 6 months in prison.
Post by: alyssa on April 02, 2020, 07:01:57 PM
On another note, the captain of the aircraft carrier that publicly called for help because of the outbreak on board has been relieved of duty.
i do not get that.... perhaps a reprimand but relieved of duty? that smacks of the higher up's not taking this seriously
Post by: Devorah on April 02, 2020, 08:41:28 PM
i do not get that.... perhaps a reprimand but relieved of duty? that smacks of the higher up's not taking this seriouslyThey said he broke the chain of command by making his public statement without going through the proper channels.
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Post by: mickeyjack3 on April 02, 2020, 11:35:49 PM
i do not get that.... perhaps a reprimand but relieved of duty? that smacks of the higher up's not taking this seriouslyI'm not saying I agree or disagree with the decision, but I don't think it means that they're not taking this seriously. I think it's quite the opposite. I think going outside the chain of command and going public might have been seen by the higher-ups as alerting other nations that we have an important asset that might not be at full readiness. It might also be seen as unnecessarily making our own citizens nervous that our military as a whole may be in a weakened position (this can't be the only vessel in this situation). I do have to think that this commander had to be in a very tough spot. He had to know that going public would get him relieved of duty, so he must have been desperate to get the people under his command the help they needed, and he saw no other way. Things must be very bad on this ship for him to throw away his career to save his people.
Post by: alyssa on April 02, 2020, 11:51:14 PM
Post by: chocolateshake on April 03, 2020, 12:26:22 AM
https://www.google.com/covid19/mobility/
Post by: alyssa on April 03, 2020, 12:34:47 AM
Quote
[the] Navy hospital ship, the U.S.N.S. Mercy, docked in Los Angeles, has had a total of 15 patients ...
A tangle of military protocols and bureaucratic hurdles has prevented the Comfort [docked in nyc] from accepting many patients at all.
On top of its strict rules preventing people infected with the virus from coming on board, the Navy is also refusing to treat a host of other conditions. Guidelines disseminated to hospitals included a list of 49 medical conditions that would exclude a patient from admittance to the ship.
Ambulances cannot take patients directly to the Comfort; they must first deliver patients to a city hospital for a lengthy evaluation — including a test for the virus — and then pick them up again for transport to the ship.
At a morning briefing on Thursday, officials said three patients had been moved to the Comfort. After The New York Times published an article with that number, Elizabeth Baker, a spokeswoman for the Navy, said the number had increased to 20 by late in the day. “We’re bringing them on as fast as we can bring them on,” she said.
Hospital leaders said they were exasperated by the delays.
more;
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/02/nyregion/ny-coronavirus-usns-comfort.html?referringSource=articleShare&fbclid=IwAR02Tx8h_LXocVSfw5Se20gwGrGsnBqF4JlRRmwPVEC5Plk3OZoQHMmXFZg
Post by: alyssa on April 03, 2020, 08:18:58 AM
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/03/us/coronavirus-stay-home-rich-poor.html?smtyp=cur&smid=fb-nytimes
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200403/7e497504be81a2cf081cb77ea8207132.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200403/3494a03e50224d2305599f143346f895.jpg)
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Post by: chocolateshake on April 03, 2020, 02:07:47 PM
I'm not saying I agree or disagree with the decision, but I don't think it means that they're not taking this seriously. I think it's quite the opposite. I think going outside the chain of command and going public might have been seen by the higher-ups as alerting other nations that we have an important asset that might not be at full readiness. It might also be seen as unnecessarily making our own citizens nervous that our military as a whole may be in a weakened position (this can't be the only vessel in this situation). I do have to think that this commander had to be in a very tough spot. He had to know that going public would get him relieved of duty, so he must have been desperate to get the people under his command the help they needed, and he saw no other way. Things must be very bad on this ship for him to throw away his career to save his people.
He didn't go public. He wrote an internal memo and sent it up the chain of command. The only problem was that he skipped a link in the chain, the guy right above him. His internal memo was leaked publicly. So the Navy removed him because they felt that he couldn't command effectively because he was so emotional about the lives of the people he was responsible for. This is how those people that were under his command feel about what he did.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/sailors-give-captain-raucous-send-off-after-he-is-relieved-over-coronavirus-letter/vi-BB128cte
Post by: marcia29 on April 03, 2020, 02:14:26 PM
Post by: alyssa on April 03, 2020, 02:17:09 PM
This kind of tracking data, while appearing helpful at this time, feels uncomfortable. :-[yeah, I've seen tracking due to phone signals but this takes it to a new level of big brother
Post by: alyssa on April 03, 2020, 07:34:05 PM
We live close to beaches and right around the corner from a large county park and the closures have had a noticeable impact. No force on earth is going to keep surfers and mountain bikers from going about their day but closing the parking lots, ....
San Diego banned surfing at public beaches.
I'm keeping my trunk attached to my bike so I can always say I'm foraging for food
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Post by: alyssa on April 04, 2020, 06:02:26 PM
https://youtu.be/hVEVve-3QeM?t=406
Post by: Michael M on April 05, 2020, 09:23:17 AM
Post by: alyssa on April 05, 2020, 11:43:24 AM
That's a great video.
thx, luv the repurposing of something we all have. I'm going to dig out a free-be con giveaway shirt i never will wear & convert it. Love the idea of using a paper towel as a filter.
oh and with thanks to everyone, especially @Devorah (https://www.friendsofcc.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=283) - i remembered to apply all the ninjaF5'ing skills to getting an amazon fresh food delivery spot!! I feel like i just won the lottery. and i have fresh veg for supper tonight #happyMe!
I got freaked out by a homeless person who kept approaching me in a parking lot as i sat on my bike last time i went to the store.
Post by: chocolateshake on April 05, 2020, 09:56:32 PM
https://www.axios.com/coronavirus-hydroxychloroquine-white-house-01306286-0bbc-4042-9bfe-890413c6220d.html?stream=politics
Post by: TardisMom on April 06, 2020, 08:30:22 AM
I worry that Fauci won't be on the task force or possibly at his post period much longer. It's infamous what happens to people that contradict the President. Today at the briefing, he was pushed off to the side and Trump wouldn't let him answer a question directly asked to him. There's also this report of a dust up about the same issue behind the scenes.
https://www.axios.com/coronavirus-hydroxychloroquine-white-house-01306286-0bbc-4042-9bfe-890413c6220d.html?stream=politics
Yes, a huge concern.
Post by: alyssa on April 06, 2020, 01:11:25 PM
Cali is loaning 500 vent's to the fed stockpile. They will be used back east in hot spots. According to gov Newsom
Post by: chocolateshake on April 06, 2020, 02:02:42 PM
Cali is loaning 500 vent's to the fed stockpile. They will be used back east in hot spots. According to gov Newsom
California has done well stocking up. Trump bragged that he was able to get 7 million N95 masks for the federal stockpile. At the same time, Newsom got 10 Million masks for the California stockpile.
Post by: Miss Kitty on April 06, 2020, 05:24:24 PM
I'm so happy I'm sitting here listening to the rain. Nice and calming. Cross fingers a baby Yoda miracle happens and they say I can work from home.
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Post by: omraged9 on April 06, 2020, 05:56:59 PM
Post by: chocolateshake on April 07, 2020, 12:37:43 PM
Post by: Miclpea on April 07, 2020, 12:42:02 PM
In the continuing saga with the aircraft carrier, the acting Navy secretary just resigned.Good!
Post by: alyssa on April 07, 2020, 04:48:35 PM
I highly recommend avoiding news and getting involved In a project.
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Post by: alyssa on April 09, 2020, 09:59:17 PM
Quote
AMC Theatres — whose business has effectively shut down because of the coronavirus pandemic — looks increasingly likely to file for bankruptcy with its cash reserves dwindling, according to Wall Street analysts.https://variety.com/2020/film/box-office/amc-theatres-bankruptcy-likely-1234575780/
In a report Thursday, MKM Partners analyst Eric Handler wrote, “Based on our view that theatres will be closed until at least August and our belief that AMC lacks the liquidity to stay afloat until that time, we expect the company will soon be faced with filing for bankruptcy.”....
:( :(
Post by: Miclpea on April 10, 2020, 03:58:20 AM
https://variety.com/2020/film/box-office/amc-theatres-bankruptcy-likely-1234575780/If the theaters stay closed until August, how can you possibly have SDCC?
:( :(
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Post by: vegasndn on April 10, 2020, 10:29:56 AM
Yesterday we went to Palace Station casino for some free food giving away by Theee Square food bank, it was a drive thru so we stayed in car and food put in trunk for us by volunteers. Today we ordered movie theater popcorn curbside pick from Galaxy theaters.
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Post by: chocolateshake on April 13, 2020, 12:08:18 PM
https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/04/13/trump-retweets-call-to-fire-fauci/
Post by: alyssa on April 13, 2020, 01:49:45 PM
"Trump retweets call to fire Fauci"
https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/04/13/trump-retweets-call-to-fire-fauci/
i have to think Trump is following the polling and won't fire Fauci-- until all of this is over with.
Post by: Miclpea on April 13, 2020, 01:56:29 PM
Post by: Devorah on April 13, 2020, 01:59:50 PM
i have to think Trump is following the polling and won't fire Fauci-- until all of this is over with.
White House made statement today that Trump is not planning to remove him.
Post by: alyssa on April 13, 2020, 02:13:44 PM
....This is a man who has devoted his entire life to public service being taunted by Voldemort. Where is Harry Potter when you need him? Maybe Fauci is Harry Potter in disguise!
tell us how you really feel. LOL
borderline political there ... ;)
in other news did anyone else see the reports about the Roosevelt in today's NYTimes? https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/12/us/politics/coronavirus-roosevelt-carrier-crozier.html
Post by: chocolateshake on April 13, 2020, 02:58:23 PM
White House made statement today that Trump is not planning to remove him.
That's happened with other people. Then Trump fires them anyways.
Something else that's happened with other people is happening with Fauci as I write this. They start walking back what they said. At the daily briefing, generally Trump speaks for an hour before letting anyone else speak. But today he has Fauci come up first to walk back his comments from yesterday that led to the fire Fauci retweet.
Post by: Miclpea on April 13, 2020, 04:51:21 PM
tell us how you really feel. LOLVoldemort’s Reality Distortion Spell made me do it!
borderline political there ... ;)
in other news did anyone else see the reports about the Roosevelt in today's NYTimes? https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/12/us/politics/coronavirus-roosevelt-carrier-crozier.html
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Post by: Miss Kitty on April 13, 2020, 08:17:48 PM
I know someone that was visiting her folks every day and she just tested positive for the virus. Now her folks are exposed. Look, stay home. I miss my daughter and friends too. I'm stuck seeing my knucklehead co-workers that go to....and I'm not making this up....."social distancing Easter supper party". Yeah. One of they people in attendance just had a heart attack and had stints put in about a month ago.
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Post by: Mario Wario on April 13, 2020, 09:13:01 PM
Post by: chocolateshake on April 14, 2020, 12:52:06 PM
Post by: accelerate on April 14, 2020, 01:08:03 PM
I find that I don't know what day it is. It happens a lot. Today, I thought it was Sunday until I turned on the TV and the news said it's Tuesday. It is Tuesday right?https://twitter.com/chrishannon/status/1248352052935364608?s=21
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200414/1e51e39a31a2a5a173e8b2a8711a3ccf.jpg)
Post by: Iris on April 14, 2020, 02:07:21 PM
I find that I don't know what day it is. It happens a lot. Today, I thought it was Sunday until I turned on the TV and the news said it's Tuesday. It is Tuesday right?
If it weren't for the fact that I'm working from home, I'd be in your boat. Over the weekend I completely mix up days and then time seems be completely all over the place. One day work goes right by, despite my not having tons to do, some times it takes forever. Some times my free time goes to slowly and other times not.
My sense of time and dates are so screwy. Reminds me of when I was in recovery from major surgeries and was house bound for the most part.
Post by: AzT on April 16, 2020, 10:05:26 AM
https://sdpride.org/ourpride/
Quote
sandiegopride Please read our full statement at the link in our bio, and then re-share with a message of why Pride is important to you.
https://www.instagram.com/p/B_DAJGRFvHD/
Post by: chocolateshake on April 16, 2020, 07:07:17 PM
Just as last month, things didn't seem very locked down. If I didn't know we were locked down, I wouldn't have guessed. There was still plenty of cars out. Traffic on the highway seemed the same as any other weekday afternoon. There were less cars at the shopping centers but they were far from empty. The local microbrew is still advertising it's late afternoon drink specials. Groups of teenagers were still being groups of teenagers.
A few people were wearing masks. About half of them had them on under their chins including the driver of the bus that went by at an intersection. I hear it doesn't work as well in that position. 90% of people weren't wearing masks.
I need to at least pop my head out and have a look outside the house every couple of days. Someone used the side of the property as a dump. That never used to happen in my neighborhood but now it's common to see mattresses or sofas dumped randomly about. I saw it as I was driving away. It makes me so mad.
On another note, San Diego is setting high standards for itself. Today at the daily briefing they compared San Diego to Singapore. The goal is to match Singapore's success.
Post by: angoradebs on April 16, 2020, 08:22:28 PM
A few people were wearing masks. About half of them had them on under their chins including the driver of the bus that went by at an intersection. I hear it doesn't work as well in that position. 90% of people weren't wearing masks.
So the thing with the homemade masks (not sure if that's what the bus driver was wearing, though) is that they really don't do anything to keep you from GETTING the virus. What they DO work at is limiting how far the virus will go if the mask-wearer is contagious. So a bus driver wouldn't really need to wear one all the time, only when he is interacting with passengers. And it gets pretty hot and uncomfortable wearing one, so I don't blame him for getting some fresh air during times where the only thing he's infecting is his windshield.
This is also important when it comes to all the people who say they refuse to wear a mask. Again, the mask wearing is meant to protect people FROM the mask wearer. If everyone wore masks, everyone would be more protected because there would be no non-wearers spewing the virus 6 feet. So people who flat out refuse to wear a mask are, knowingly or not, essentially saying that their comfort is more important than the health and safety of the people they come into contact with.
I don't like wearing a mask. I have an aversion to things covering my face. I never pull my bedcovers over my head, because I literally can't. I also hate how they pull on my ears. But I still wear a mask. I'm not going to be the one to infect someone else.
For people like me: I've been putting some peppermint oil under my nose before wearing mine (I have a roll-on one so I don't have to touch my face). It really helps me breathe while I have it on. (Of course, test it out on your arm or something before you put it on your face if you've never used it before, to make sure it doesn't cause skin irritation)
Post by: omraged9 on April 16, 2020, 10:35:40 PM
Post by: chocolateshake on April 16, 2020, 11:41:33 PM
So the thing with the homemade masks (not sure if that's what the bus driver was wearing, though) is that they really don't do anything to keep you from GETTING the virus. What they DO work at is limiting how far the virus will go if the mask-wearer is contagious. So a bus driver wouldn't really need to wear one all the time, only when he is interacting with passengers. And it gets pretty hot and uncomfortable wearing one, so I don't blame him for getting some fresh air during times where the only thing he's infecting is his windshield.
That's the point of the general public wearing masks home made cloth or P100. It's to limit spreading covid, not so much to keep from getting it. If that was the goal then people should wear googles as well. Since wearing a mask without protecting the eyes is only a half measure.
A bus driver should wear his mask all the time. Whether there are passengers on board or not. Since if he's sick he'll be depositing micro droplets all over the bus. In an enclosed space micro droplets don't disperse and can linger in the air filling up the entire space. Then anyone who comes on board and touches any surface on the bus will get contaminated. That 6 foot number they bring up is a rough minimum guideline. Years ago MIT did an experiment and a sneeze can go 200 feet. You get used to wearing a mask. I can wear one 24/7. I wear one 24/7 when I'm sick so that I don't get other people sick. In fact, I feel weird not wearing a mask after a few days of wearing one.
Post by: chocolateshake on April 22, 2020, 05:52:07 PM
Post by: alyssa on April 23, 2020, 07:22:51 AM
Fauci finally made an appearance today after being missing in action since last week. Then he went to the mic and directly contradicted what Trump just said. Also the CDC director was called up first to fall on his sword for the comments he made yesterday, then he proceeded to restate what he said yesterday. If we lose any more of the top leadership of scientists working on covid, it will be a disaster. Trump already "reassigned" the top scientist in charge of the US effort to develop a vaccine. 18-24 months was aspirational if everything went absolutely perfectly. Dismissing the person in charge of that effort won't help.tbh, i've stopped listening to the fed. gov. Way to much needless drama. With all the 'gut following' nothing gets done so in reality, it has no bearing on my life.
I pay attention to the highlights of my Gov's policy and of course my mayor's plans. Thankfully they follow the science.
i guess i've resigned myself to the new normal.
Post by: YouThinkMeMad on April 23, 2020, 07:28:13 AM
Post by: alyssa on April 23, 2020, 10:12:28 AM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200423/062bfaae8e5bd3d95502e080f6df5f9d.jpg)
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Post by: Zero on April 23, 2020, 06:38:24 PM
At the risk of being obvious to those folks who have a good understanding of the math, (not me) this was interesting.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200423/062bfaae8e5bd3d95502e080f6df5f9d.jpg)
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That's actually a good analogy to explain it and look at it... Unfortunately, the reality of this viral pandemic means that that's already true for many people around the world. It's a very sobering message.
Post by: omraged9 on April 24, 2020, 08:40:03 PM
Post by: alyssa on April 25, 2020, 07:34:44 AM
.... we still have this death rate while having shelter in place rules. Imagine how deadly the outbreak would be if we didn't have shelter in place. We'd be like Italy with their 10% death rate.Good point
Post by: chocolateshake on April 25, 2020, 11:46:56 AM
Imagine how deadly the outbreak would be if we didn't have shelter in place. We'd be like Italy with their 10% death rate.
I don't think it's fair to use Italy as an example of not sheltering in place and thus a high mortality rate. They do stay home. In fact, by looking at the mobility numbers, they are much better at sheltering in place than the US. Just like it's not fair to use South Korea as an example of not sheltering in place. They don't and their mortality rate is the lowest.
All the infection numbers don't mean much right now. They are all wrong. We don't have enough testing for them to be accurate. They are all low. The number of people infected is much higher than the reported numbers. Right now, only visibly sick people qualify to be tested in much of the world. Right now, only the people that die in hospitals are counted towards covid mortality. Gov. Cuomo clearly says that because of that, the reported mortality rate is low in NYC. He says that people that die at home aren't counted right now.
In the end, the number of people found to be infected will be orders higher than the reported numbers now. The number of deaths will be higher as well but will not jump as much. Because of that, the real mortality rate is much lower than it's reported anywhere in the world right now. Even the low that South Korea has.
In no way am I saying we shouldn't shelter in place. If you've read any of my posts about the matter, I am a lock the gate and deadbolt the door stay in placer. I really wish other people were too. Around me, I don't see much of that.
I think the authorities should set the proper expectations. We won't wake up one day and covid will be gone. That's not going to happen. It's here to stay. It's something we will have to live with. It's something we'll have to mitigate going forward. Even a vaccine will not knock it out. No vaccine is 100% effective. No vaccine is taken by 100% of the people. In the US, less than half the population gets a flu vaccine. It will be like the cold and the flu. It will be something we'll have to live with. Something as contagious as the cold and as deadly as the flu.
Post by: puppy on April 25, 2020, 06:13:45 PM
Because of that, the real mortality rate is much lower than it's reported anywhere in the world right now. Even the low that South Korea has.
I think they need to look at the percent of the population that die from the virus rather than the percent of people infected who die from the virus. Although a low percentage might die if infected, a high percentage of the population might die at the top of the curve because it is so contagious that an outrageous number of people get it (and a small percentage of an outrageous number is a big number) and because of factors such as the number of ventilators. Even if it were very survivable with ventilators, it may not be survivable because of the lack of ventilators. Add to that the number of people who indirectly die of it because they do not have COVID-19 but need ventilators. That is how we might end up like Italy.
Post by: TardisMom on April 25, 2020, 09:43:52 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=share&v=PlZhQJBZ574&app=desktop (https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=share&v=PlZhQJBZ574&app=desktop)
Post by: omraged9 on April 26, 2020, 12:55:38 AM
I don't think it's fair to use Italy as an example of not sheltering in place and thus a high mortality rate. They do stay home. In fact, by looking at the mobility numbers, they are much better at sheltering in place than the US. Just like it's not fair to use South Korea as an example of not sheltering in place. They don't and their mortality rate is the lowest.
All the infection numbers don't mean much right now. They are all wrong. We don't have enough testing for them to be accurate. They are all low. The number of people infected is much higher than the reported numbers. Right now, only visibly sick people qualify to be tested in much of the world. Right now, only the people that die in hospitals are counted towards covid mortality. Gov. Cuomo clearly says that because of that, the reported mortality rate is low in NYC. He says that people that die at home aren't counted right now.
In the end, the number of people found to be infected will be orders higher than the reported numbers now. The number of deaths will be higher as well but will not jump as much. Because of that, the real mortality rate is much lower than it's reported anywhere in the world right now. Even the low that South Korea has.
In no way am I saying we shouldn't shelter in place. If you've read any of my posts about the matter, I am a lock the gate and deadbolt the door stay in placer. I really wish other people were too. Around me, I don't see much of that.
I think the authorities should set the proper expectations. We won't wake up one day and covid will be gone. That's not going to happen. It's here to stay. It's something we will have to live with. It's something we'll have to mitigate going forward. Even a vaccine will not knock it out. No vaccine is 100% effective. No vaccine is taken by 100% of the people. In the US, less than half the population gets a flu vaccine. It will be like the cold and the flu. It will be something we'll have to live with. Something as contagious as the cold and as deadly as the flu.
I used Italy as an example because it took them awhile to start shelter in place. They also were not compliant in the beginning either when their government started setting rules. Their restrictions became tighter than ours, yes, but only because their death rate was insane. But you're right, their rate may not be the most accurate but it's really more because of their older population. But the point is, if we don't have shelter in place, the numbers could go out of control again. And we definitely can't compare the death rate of the flu vs this virus due to the uniqueness of this virus.
I'm not actually obsessed with the mortality rate compared to most who argue for and against shelter in place. I see the overall numbers of death as more significant. Like the idea that if 250-500k Americans can potentially die from this virus because of the potential 50-100 million infections, that's way too high to me. I'm for shelter in place but I also think both financially and mental/body health-wise we can't continue it for too much longer. I just found out today a co-worker of mine passed away earlier in the week, most likely not from covid since she didn't leave her apt for 6 weeks but probably from other underlying health conditions that weren't treated due to fear of catching covid if you go to hospitals right now. It made me realize that even if people could survive financially on unemployment benefits for awhile, the constant fear-mongering is not necessarily going to help everyone survive if they push people to neglect their mental and systemic health.
I agree that authorities should set proper expectations. I also think they should consider the locality of each region, how well the outbreak is controlled in each region and base their shelter in place regulations on these numbers. For instance, the Bay Area is doing really well in flattening the curve. They should start considering opening parks/trails/beaches and allow some non-essential businesses to open while making sure people are still wearing masks and social distancing. They definitely need to start allowing hospitals to do elective surgeries and do regular exams and screenings. This neglect of other medical conditions other than covid is going to get more deadly from now on. From there, we can see how our numbers do, if we can maintain flattening the curve. With LA, since they're not doing as well, they may need to continue shelter in place rules for longer than the Bay Area.
I'm not pessimistic as you about potential vaccine or drug treatments. I believe in our scientific process and our scientific technology. The problem we have right now, in the US at least, is that we were caught with our pants down but with enough time, we'll finally figure out which drugs work the best to help save lives. Either that or we'll finally come out with vaccines that can protect most from the virus. We might need yearly vaccines, yes. No drugs or vaccines are ever going to be perfect but with time, we'll figure out the way to control the outbreak.
Quote
This is long but interesting. This conversation was posted April 23, 2020. Irishman John Doyle is one of Europe’s leading minds considering what the coming years will be like. He is a member of the EU Foresight Commission.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=share&v=PlZhQJBZ574&app=desktop
I admit, I'm not sure how to take these 'end of normal' ideas. How do you feel about his ideas? Some of these ideas about permanent public social distancing seem anti-human nature to me.
Post by: TardisMom on April 26, 2020, 11:43:08 AM
I admit, I'm not sure how to take these 'end of normal' ideas. How do you feel about his ideas? Some of these ideas about permanent public social distancing seem anti-human nature to me.
I really really really hope he is wrong. Only time will tell, of course, but he sounds pretty reasonable.
Post by: chocolateshake on April 26, 2020, 11:57:11 AM
I used Italy as an example because it took them awhile to start shelter in place. They also were not compliant in the beginning either when their government started setting rules.
Italy started city wide lockdowns earlier in their curve than we did. Then they went national. We haven't. As I mentioned in my last post, based on mobility data, they are more compliant with staying at home than we are or have been. Some countries that don't even have government mandated lockdowns are more compliant than the US.
The reason that Italy's mortality rate is so high is because of demographics. It's where it hit. It hit in small towns in Italy. Like much of the world, small towns are mainly inhabited by older people. The young move to cities. So it hit in what amounted to big nursing homes. Mortality in a concentrated elderly population is high anywhere in the world.
I'm not pessimistic as you about potential vaccine or drug treatments. I believe in our scientific process and our scientific technology.
I'm not pessimistic about a vaccine or treatments. I'm realistic. Science isn't a popularity contest. It isn't persuaded by heartfelt speeches. It's about the facts. The last thing we need in a crisis is to waste time on mindless diversions. We need to focus on things that may work, not waste resources on things based on Trump's gut or the number of social media likes. There is a reason drugs are approved based on science and not by popular vote. If you truly believe in the scientific process, you wouldn't either. There was no reason to think that chloroquine would work. Quite the contrary. Legitimate virologists that expressed an opinion, thought it was a wild goose chase. It was. Like I said, it was evaluated during SARS. SARS is a very similar virus. The scientific name for covid is SARS 2. If it didn't work for SARS 1, why would it work for SARS 2? All the people, money and time wasted on that pointless diversion could have been spent on something that has promise. Instead it was wasted just to mollify a small but vocal mob.
The results of the large New York study should be out next week. The researchers turned the results over to federal government a while ago. It's been held up there. If chloroquine worked, I'm pretty sure that Trump would have done a victory lap by now. The fact that it's being held back, probably says all that needs to be said. The researchers have said that if the federal government doesn't release the results in about a week, they will.
Post by: omraged9 on April 26, 2020, 09:28:51 PM
I really really really hope he is wrong. Only time will tell, of course, but he sounds pretty reasonable.
I think what we should really question is our cultural norms. Like in our own country, we can see that not having universal health care can be financially dangerous for many people. There really is no logic to tying health care coverage to employment. I think we can also question the idea of liberty and freedom like in the case of those protesting against the shutdowns. Should we have the freedom to infect others if we're sick or asymptomatic? Or should infected people be locked up temporarily if they refuse to self-quarantine? By what I've read about contact tracing in other countries, what they do is against our HIPAA laws. How important is protecting our health privacy vs protecting others from known infected individuals? So I think we can definitely question a lot of our norms with this pandemic.
I'm not pessimistic about a vaccine or treatments. I'm realistic. Science isn't a popularity contest. It isn't persuaded by heartfelt speeches. It's about the facts. The last thing we need in a crisis is to waste time on mindless diversions. We need to focus on things that may work, not waste resources on things based on Trump's gut or the number of social media likes. There is a reason drugs are approved based on science and not by popular vote. If you truly believe in the scientific process, you wouldn't either. There was no reason to think that chloroquine would work. Quite the contrary. Legitimate virologists that expressed an opinion, thought it was a wild goose chase. It was. Like I said, it was evaluated during SARS. SARS is a very similar virus. The scientific name for covid is SARS 2. If it didn't work for SARS 1, why would it work for SARS 2? All the people, money and time wasted on that pointless diversion could have been spent on something that has promise. Instead it was wasted just to mollify a small but vocal mob.
The results of the large New York study should be out next week. The researchers turned the results over to federal government a while ago. It's been held up there. If chloroquine worked, I'm pretty sure that Trump would have done a victory lap by now. The fact that it's being held back, probably says all that needs to be said. The researchers have said that if the federal government doesn't release the results in about a week, they will.
I think you're still confused about the origin of why hydroxychloroquine/chloroquine was seen as a potential covid treatment. The interest in the drug started way before Trump's bloviations. There was an article I read on nature.com that talked about the potential drug treatments back in Feb before the HCQ craze started:
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41587-020-00003-1
The previous interest in the drug came from multiple positive in vitro studies that showed HCQ could be a potential antiviral and that it's a zinc ionophore. With the first SARs virus outbreak, HCQ was one of the drugs they were trying to use in China. So I disagree that this was a "mindless diversion." There were good reasons why they were trying the drug out. Does it mean that the drug works? No, there's no good studies that show it does. But it's wrong to say that the initial interest in the drug was wrong.
You're also wrong to assume that the original SARs virus infection is so similar to the covid infection to assume that a drug that didn't work for original SARs must mean it wouldn't work for covid too. Look at this article that talks about the genetic differences between the two viruses.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7138183/
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The receptor-binding domain of SARS-CoV-2 has a higher affinity for ACE2, while it is a lower affinity for SARS-CoV
They're pretty much two different types of infections.
Here's another example of what can be seen as an initial "mindless diversion":
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/04/new-york-clinical-trial-quietly-tests-heartburn-remedy-against-coronavirus
There's no proof that famotidine will work of course but why not try it? They seem to have some scientific thought to it. My point is that you can't judge drugs on the surface. There's been many drugs that were originally made to treat one disease but then found to help with other diseases/conditions too. Even a drug like chloroquine was originally made to treat/prevent malaria and later on they found it to help with autoimmune conditions like lupus. Again I'm not saying that it means HCQ or any of these drugs will definitely work but if there's a scientific reason for it, they should test it.
Post by: chocolateshake on April 26, 2020, 11:41:02 PM
I think what we should really question is our cultural norms. Like in our own country, we can see that not having universal health care can be financially dangerous for many people. There really is no logic to tying health care coverage to employment. I think we can also question the idea of liberty and freedom like in the case of those protesting against the shutdowns. Should we have the freedom to infect others if we're sick or asymptomatic? Or should infected people be locked up temporarily if they refuse to self-quarantine? By what I've read about contact tracing in other countries, what they do is against our HIPAA laws. How important is protecting our health privacy vs protecting others from known infected individuals? So I think we can definitely question a lot of our norms with this pandemic.
I think this pandemic has changed our country. There's no going back. Hopefully handshaking is in the past. Just like how the Spanish Flu cut down spitting in the US. Before that, Americans were world class spitters. Spittoons weren't commonplace for no reason.
One thing it has shown is the need for everyone to have health care. No one is an island. If someone that doesn't have health care gets sick, then that will have repercussions for everyone. The Trump administration's advice for people that lost their jobs was to apply for Obamacare. A system that they had tried since coming into office to get rid of. Now they are encouraging people to participate in it.
Contact tracing as proposed in Europe and the US does not violate HIPAA. It's an opt in system. Regardless, by not identifying people individually, HIPAA doesn't apply. Our health information is commonly bought and sold. As long as it's not personally identifiable, it's permitted under HIPAA. The proposed contact tracing system wouldn't tell you who is sick, it would just tell you that you were in contact with some that was.
I think you're still confused about the origin of why hydroxychloroquine/chloroquine was seen as a potential covid treatment. The interest in the drug started way before Trump's bloviations. There was an article I read on nature.com that talked about the potential drug treatments back in Feb before the HCQ craze started:
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41587-020-00003-1
I'm not the one that's confused. That article doesn't promote chloroquine at all. It doesn't even really talk about it. It simply notes the investigations at the time into drug reuse. One of which was chloroquine.
The previous interest in the drug came from multiple positive in vitro studies that showed HCQ could be a potential antiviral and that it's a zinc ionophore. With the first SARs virus outbreak, HCQ was one of the drugs they were trying to use in China.
I've already made my cautions of applying what happens in a test tube to the real world. I don't need to repeat them again. As I said, it was looked at for SARS. A very similar virus with a very similar spike protein. It failed then, why would it work now?
So I disagree that this was a "mindless diversion." There were good reasons why they were trying the drug out. Does it mean that the drug works? No, there's no good studies that show it does. But it's wrong to say that the initial interest in the drug was wrong.
What are those "good reasons"? So far what you've presented doesn't support that.
You're also wrong to assume that the original SARs virus infection is so similar to the covid infection to assume that a drug that didn't work for original SARs must mean it wouldn't work for covid too.
Didn't you read the Nature article you linked to in your post? To quote, "The general genomic layout and the general replication kinetics and the biology of the MERS, SARS and [SARS-CoV-2] viruses are very similar, so testing drugs which target relatively generic parts of these coronaviruses is a logical step,%u201D
SARS-CoV-1(SARS) and SARS-CoV-2(covid) are very similar. How similar? So similar that some of the vaccine candidates are SARS vaccines that never made it to market since SARS sputtered out. In vitro, the SARS vaccines work as well on covid as SARS. There's a reason that covid was named SARS 2. It's not like they lacked imagination to name it something else.
https://communityimpact.com/houston/bellaire-meyerland-west-university/coronavirus/2020/04/13/baylor-texas-childrens-hospital-speed-up-covid-19-vaccine-development-by-building-on-sars-effort/
Treatment development relies on valid science. Not anecdotes and random ideas going viral on social media. Those should not be the drivers. Drugs with dangerous side effects that are not shown to be effective for a condition should not be promoted for use with zeal. When valid studies come out that show that some hyped up idea has failed, those valid studies should not be dismissed as a mainstream media conspiracy. A critical part of the scientific method is acknowledging reality once it becomes clear no matter what your stand was beforehand. That's the scientific process.
Post by: omraged9 on April 28, 2020, 12:39:00 AM
Contact tracing as proposed in Europe and the US does not violate HIPAA. It's an opt in system. Regardless, by not identifying people individually, HIPAA doesn't apply. Our health information is commonly bought and sold. As long as it's not personally identifiable, it's permitted under HIPAA. The proposed contact tracing system wouldn't tell you who is sick, it would just tell you that you were in contact with some that was.
Some contact tracing procedures that other countries participate would violate HIPAA here. For instance, the South Korean and Singaporean contact tracing apps. Just the fact that they ping if you're near someone who's infected is a potential HIPAA violation. There's some discussion in these articles:
https://www.theverge.com/interface/2020/4/10/21215267/covid-19-contact-tracing-apps-bluetooth-coronavirus-flaws-public-health
https://www.latimes.com/politics/story/2020-04-26/privacy-americans-trade-off-trace-coronavirus-contacts
The fact that you have to log in to your Apple or Google accounts to give them your health information is a bit scary. And I didn't even mention the data/location privacy violations too where they know exactly where everyone is. I'm not saying I'm against it 100%. But it's a doorway that I'm not sure our country should enter.
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I'm not the one that's confused. That article doesn't promote chloroquine at all. It doesn't even really talk about it. It simply notes the investigations at the time into drug reuse. One of which was chloroquine.
My point in posting the Nature article was that hydroxychloroquine was a drug that was used in Chinese treatments and studies before Trump called attention to it. There's nothing special about HCQ in general, it's just a drug that was being tested among other drugs like Kaletra and Remdesivir to see if it would work or not. The difference is, there's a weird anti-HCQ slant in media articles, like people want the drug to fail and are happy to see the drug fail. Kaletra was one that had some early hope towards it and it completely fizzled out. But you don't see anyone posting anything about Kaletra now. Even Remdesivir which had the highest hope hasn't really shown anything either. But we'll see if the trials show anything positive.
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I've already made my cautions of applying what happens in a test tube to the real world. I don't need to repeat them again. As I said, it was looked at for SARS. A very similar virus with a very similar spike protein. It failed then, why would it work now?
Did you read the genetic makeup of the two SARs viruses? The fact that they bind to the ACE-2 receptors to enter our cells is different from the original SARs virus. This article mentions that the 2 viruses only shared 79.5% sequence identity.
https://www.rndsystems.com/resources/articles/ace-2-sars-receptor-identified
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What are those "good reasons"? So far what you've presented doesn't support that.
I've already posted the articles about HCQ being a potential antiviral in vitro and being a zinc ionophore in studies in my previous posts. Like I said, HCQ was among other drugs like Kaletra and Remdesivir that was looked at as being potential treatments. Kaletra is a HIV antiviral drug. Remdesivir was a failed Ebola drug. Why did they chose these drugs in the first place to try? They looked at previous studies and trials. If you want to call these researchers stupid for trying these drugs out, that's your prerogative.
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Treatment development relies on valid science. Not anecdotes and random ideas going viral on social media. Those should not be the drivers. Drugs with dangerous side effects that are not shown to be effective for a condition should not be promoted for use with zeal. When valid studies come out that show that some hyped up idea has failed, those valid studies should not be dismissed as a mainstream media conspiracy. A critical part of the scientific method is acknowledging reality once it becomes clear no matter what your stand was beforehand. That's the scientific process.
Like I said, research into HCQ (and Kaletra and Remdesivir and other drugs) happened before social media. You still seem to be confused about that. If you want to question the validity of how these doctors and researchers chose HCQ, that's fine. I choose to respect their reasons even if they end up being wrong.
As for your statements about how wrong it is to look at anecdotal data, I have to disagree with this part. If you talk to any of the frontline doctors treating severe covid patients right now, they'll tell you all they have is anecdotal data. There are no peer-reviewed studies on covid at all. There's not even proof that ventilators even work but yet they're using them (which they found out later that they should hold off on using them more recently). So are they supposed to hold their hands up and not treat their patients if there are no peer-reviewed treatment information? Of course not. They're going to try saving their patients in whatever capacity they can. Each doctor/hospital system are doing experimental treatments right now. It'd probably make your head explode if you saw what kinds of drugs they're using on their patients right now ;D
But anyhow I highly recommend reading about what's happening in the frontlines. Even thought it's all anecdotal information and theories, it's actually amazing stuff. Information is constantly changing. As I mentioned earlier, previous thought was to intubate patients earlier when patients started going into hypoxia but now when they see the poor results from ventilation, they're holding back. A lot of doctors are recommending oxygen treatments like nasal cannulas and proning patients first instead. It's funny to see you quote excerpts the nature.com article I posted earlier, I forgot how much the information from February to now has changed (I only posted it to point out how HCQ was among a few other drugs being studied back in February. The interest in the drug was not invented by Trump). In earlier articles, covid experts were sure that it was the cytokine storm/immune overreaction that was causing these covid deaths (like the theories for the 1918 Spanish flu pandemic) but now it's looking a lot more complicated than that. Throwing immunosuppressant drugs at patients to help with the immune overreaction isn't necessarily saving everyone. There's unique damage created by this virus. The latest observations/theories involve coagulation/blood clots.
https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20200424/blood-clots-are-another-dangerous-covid-19-mystery
Right now, it's not clear if it's the immune overreaction or the virus itself that's causing these blood clots or if it's both. It does seem to connect with the previous theories that the virus is not causing typical acute respiratory distress syndrome, why ventilators aren't necessarily working. It's like a medical mystery right now and doctors and researchers are playing detective. I'm not going to judge them for trying their best to save lives even if they're using non-FDA approved drug treatments.
Post by: chocolateshake on April 28, 2020, 12:00:12 PM
Some contact tracing procedures that other countries participate would violate HIPAA here. For instance, the South Korean and Singaporean contact tracing apps. Just the fact that they ping if you're near someone who's infected is a potential HIPAA violation. There's some discussion in these articles:
https://www.theverge.com/interface/2020/4/10/21215267/covid-19-contact-tracing-apps-bluetooth-coronavirus-flaws-public-health
https://www.latimes.com/politics/story/2020-04-26/privacy-americans-trade-off-trace-coronavirus-contacts
The fact that you have to log in to your Apple or Google accounts to give them your health information is a bit scary. And I didn't even mention the data/location privacy violations too where they know exactly where everyone is. I'm not saying I'm against it 100%. But it's a doorway that I'm not sure our country should enter.
Yes I know. I've talked about the South Korean and Singaporean contact tracing systems. But we aren't them. Those systems aren't the ones being proposed to be used here.
If you are scared about possible "data/location privacy violations" then you should have been terrified for years. Since until recently the major carriers sold their customer's current location to anyone willing to pay. You could ask to buy the current location of anyone and they would sell it to you. They vowed to stop doing it but there have been reports that it's still happening indirectly.
My point in posting the Nature article was that hydroxychloroquine was a drug that was used in Chinese treatments and studies before Trump called attention to it. There's nothing special about HCQ in general, it's just a drug that was being tested among other drugs like Kaletra and Remdesivir to see if it would work or not. The difference is, there's a weird anti-HCQ slant in media articles, like people want the drug to fail and are happy to see the drug fail. Kaletra was one that had some early hope towards it and it completely fizzled out. But you don't see anyone posting anything about Kaletra now. Even Remdesivir which had the highest hope hasn't really shown anything either. But we'll see if the trials show anything positive.
As I've said, we were and still are in the desperate throw anything at it phase of covid. Do you think that list was comprehensive? A lot of compounds have been tried. Which leads to a problem. They just don't use one drug at a time in a last ditch effort to save someone, they use a cocktail. They mix it all together. Did any of them work? If so, which one? The answer to both those questions is a shrug. There was no reason to latch on to chloroquine as the answer based on those anecdotes. There was no reason to keep faith in chloroquine when follow up studies showed it didn't help and in fact hurt. The Chinese study showing it didn't do any good came out long ago in covid pandemic terms. Yet some people dismissed it since it didn't agree with the anecdotes that set their viewpoint.
I posted my warning about that leaked anecdote about the Remdesivir trial. That's the problem with anecdotes. They lack context. Without that context something that sounds great anecdotally in reality doesn't do anything. Which seems to be the case with Remdesivir. We'll find out soon.
Did you read the genetic makeup of the two SARs viruses? The fact that they bind to the ACE-2 receptors to enter our cells is different from the original SARs virus. This article mentions that the 2 viruses only shared 79.5% sequence identity.
I suggest you do some of your reddit research on the spike protein. That protein is common on corona viruses. That's what the vaccines are targeting. Since if an effective vaccine can be made for that, then it should be a vaccine that works for corona viruses in general. Covid, SARS, MERS and cross your fingers, maybe even the common cold.
As for your statements about how wrong it is to look at anecdotal data, I have to disagree with this part.
And around and around we go. I don't see the point. We'll just have to agree to disagree. I'll stick to the science. You stick to the anecdotes. I hope people decide what they put into their bodies based on science and not on impassioned statements fueled by anecdotes.
Post by: Chris on April 28, 2020, 12:55:57 PM
At the risk of being obvious to those folks who have a good understanding of the math, (not me) this was interesting.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200423/062bfaae8e5bd3d95502e080f6df5f9d.jpg)
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He raises a good way to look at it.
My perspective on the % has been. 1-3% is not that bad if I lose a $5 bet or lose $5, etc.
1-3% is really really bad if it means death.
Post by: omraged9 on April 28, 2020, 10:17:51 PM
I suggest you do some of your reddit research on the spike protein. That protein is common on corona viruses. That's what the vaccines are targeting. Since if an effective vaccine can be made for that, then it should be a vaccine that works for corona viruses in general. Covid, SARS, MERS and cross your fingers, maybe even the common cold.
It doesn't matter that they both have a spike protein. Their spike proteins don't bind to the same types of receptors (ACE-2) the way same way. Did you just ignore all the articles I posted about the genetic differences between the two SARs viruses and other coronaviruses?
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And around and around we go. I don't see the point. We'll just have to agree to disagree. I'll stick to the science. You stick to the anecdotes. I hope people decide what they put into their bodies based on science and not on impassioned statements fueled by anecdotes.
That's probably what you don't understand. You have a rigid idea of what science (and medicine) is. Science is ever changing, ever evolving. Science starts with hypotheses and observations and then it's tested with trials and studies. Sometimes the theories are right, sometimes they're wrong. In special times like these, you're not going to have the ideal clinical trials to rely on, especially with a disease like covid that we're still don't fully understand. Unfortunately for the severe cases, if they're close to dying, both the doctors and the patients going to be desperate to try something to save them. I'm just glad that the doctors and researchers out there are trying their best to find proper treatment for the disease and I hope they can find these treatments sooner than later.
Post by: chocolateshake on April 29, 2020, 11:33:58 AM
It doesn't matter that they both have a spike protein. Their spike proteins don't bind to the same types of receptors (ACE-2) the way same way. Did you just ignore all the articles I posted about the genetic differences between the two SARs viruses and other coronaviruses?
You don't understand. If the spike proteins are dealt with, then there's nothing to bind to any receptor. It doesn't matter how many different types of locks there are if there are no keys.
That's probably what you don't understand. You have a rigid idea of what science (and medicine) is. Science is ever changing, ever evolving. Science starts with hypotheses and observations and then it's tested with trials and studies. Sometimes the theories are right, sometimes they're wrong. In special times like these, you're not going to have the ideal clinical trials to rely on, especially with a disease like covid that we're still don't fully understand. Unfortunately for the severe cases, if they're close to dying, both the doctors and the patients going to be desperate to try something to save them. I'm just glad that the doctors and researchers out there are trying their best to find proper treatment for the disease and I hope they can find these treatments sooner than later.
I understand science. It does depend on accepting and rejecting a hypothesis based on the best data available. It's not about rejecting valid data because it disagrees with an anecdote you are emotionally invested in. That's not science.
Post by: omraged9 on April 29, 2020, 07:46:36 PM
You don't understand. If the spike proteins are dealt with, then there's nothing to bind to any receptor. It doesn't matter how many different types of locks there are if there are no keys.
But you're assuming the spike protein is exactly the same in all the coronaviruses. The fact that the covid virus binds to ACE-2 receptors more so compared to original SARs virus suggests there may be some key differences. I mean I would love if they can create a vaccine that can help us prevent future coronavirus infections. I'm sure they're going to explore that more in the future so we'll see.
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I understand science. It does depend on accepting and rejecting a hypothesis based on the best data available. It's not about rejecting valid data because it disagrees with an anecdote you are emotionally invested in. That's not science.
This is where we disagree. It seems like you feel the end results is science. I see science as the whole process. It starts with observations and anecdotal information that leads theories and hypotheses. These theories get tested in clinical trials/studies, both ideal and non-ideal. These scientists and doctors who test them will have their biases, it's human nature. I mean if they didn't believe in what they're testing, they wouldn't bother doing it. I agree with you about not rejecting valid data if it contradicts with what you're emotionally invested in but that's my whole point about this covid disease. It's a brand new disease that doesn't have much valid data. I don't believe we can assume previously known info about original SARs virus is the same for covid virus. We're still trying to figure out why it's so unpredictable, why it can kill people of any age, even those with have no underlying conditions. It doesn't seem to be killing people the same way as the original virus.
Btw, what do you think of Dr. Fauci recommending Remdesivir as the standard of care now?
Post by: chocolateshake on April 30, 2020, 12:24:31 AM
But you're assuming the spike protein is exactly the same in all the coronaviruses.
(a bunch of deleted stuff)
Btw, what do you think of Dr. Fauci recommending Remdesivir as the standard of care now?
I'm not assuming. If you would care to read the links I post, you'll find this in one of them. It's from the people that have shown their SARS vaccine works just as well on covid as SARS in vitro.
"The SARS and COVID-19 viruses are genetically very similar, and their spike proteins and structures also bear similarities that suggest that the SARS vaccine potentially could be used to prevent COVID-19.”
There was a reason that Remdesivir was given hope unlike chloroquine by researchers. For the last 7 years people have been looking into Remdesivir as a treatment for corona viruses. Not just one of them. Not just SARS. Not just MERS. But as a generic treatment for all of them. Since all corona viruses are similar. Have you ever wondered why the are called corona viruses? It's the spike as in spike protein. What does the dude that did that 7 years of research call covid? SARS 2.
I think we need to wait for the results of the clinical trial to come out. As per the person running the trial, they are still crunching the numbers. The results weren't due for a month. I do wonder why Fauci leaked them all of a sudden today.
There was another Remdesivir trial result released today. The trial that Gilead itself did. It didn't get as much press. The big take away from that was that taking it for 10 days was no better than 5 days. They did also note the shorten recovery period. Whether someone recovered or survived didn't seem significantly improved.
These leaked results from the NIH study are at odds with the leaked results from the Chinese study. There's the mega-trial going on in Europe. They are doing the right thing and not leaking. Clinical trials are like Fight Club. You don't talk about it until it's done. They should release the results from that in a month or two.
If Remdesivir works it would be awesome. I would note the order of Fauci's statements. First and foremost he's happy about it as a proof of concept. That any drug has any effect at all. Second, he only says it works to shorten recovery. Recovery and mortality have not been determined to be significantly improved.
And that's the takeaway from today. I don't think anyone thinks Remdesivir is the answer. We won't be ending social distancing because of it. It's not the end, it's the beginning. It's hope that something can work. It's hope that something else might work better.
Post by: alyssa on April 30, 2020, 08:28:31 AM
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Post by: Transmute Jun on April 30, 2020, 12:50:28 PM
No, I'm not kidding. And some of them are very cute.
https://www.shopdisney.com/face-masks/
Post by: janray on April 30, 2020, 12:54:20 PM
Post by: Transmute Jun on April 30, 2020, 12:57:33 PM
I ordered mine earlier this morning, Marvel pack!
Most of that pack is meh, but the Hulk face is so cute! I wish you could mix and match designs from the different packs. Imagine Hulk face, Baby Yoda, Mike Wazowski and Stitch all in one pack...
Post by: janray on April 30, 2020, 01:25:39 PM
Post by: puppy on April 30, 2020, 04:03:59 PM
(https://static.dezeen.com/uploads/2020/02/resting-risk-face-facial-recognition-respirator-masks_dezeen_1704_col_3-852x655.jpg)
https://abc7news.com/coronavirus-masks-realistic-custom-respirator-danielle-baskin-resting-risk-face/5957083/ (https://abc7news.com/coronavirus-masks-realistic-custom-respirator-danielle-baskin-resting-risk-face/5957083/)
Post by: puppy on April 30, 2020, 04:08:23 PM
For those who think the Disney parks will never open again, I give you.... Disney face masks!
No, I'm not kidding. And some of them are very cute.
https://www.shopdisney.com/face-masks/
I like Baby Yoda. Too bad there aren't Star Wars faces like Mickey (i.e., nose & chin). I would kill for Mandalorian or Baby Yoda.
Post by: NCDS on April 30, 2020, 06:51:24 PM
Most of that pack is meh, but the Hulk face is so cute! I wish you could mix and match designs from the different packs. Imagine Hulk face, Baby Yoda, Mike Wazowski and Stitch all in one pack...
I was thinking the same thing! I settled on Star Wars because I liked more in that pack.
Post by: omraged9 on April 30, 2020, 11:06:32 PM
If Remdesivir works it would be awesome. I would note the order of Fauci's statements. First and foremost he's happy about it as a proof of concept. That any drug has any effect at all. Second, he only says it works to shorten recovery. Recovery and mortality have not been determined to be significantly improved.
And that's the takeaway from today. I don't think anyone thinks Remdesivir is the answer. We won't be ending social distancing because of it. It's not the end, it's the beginning. It's hope that something can work. It's hope that something else might work better.
I agree with that actually. I don't feel Remdesivir is going to change much right now. We still need to understand the disease process better and find better medications that can treat it. I still have hopes that there's a preexisting drug out there that might work on other stages of the disease and it's possible that a combo of drugs will help with the survival rates.
Post by: mark on May 06, 2020, 06:34:23 PM
(https://comiccondad.files.wordpress.com/2020/05/diff.jpg)
Post by: chocolateshake on May 18, 2020, 12:27:49 PM
Overall, the response was similar to people that recovered from covid. It's still unclear if that's enough for immunity. There's the recent case of the 14 people on the Roosevelt. They had covid, they recovered, they tested negative twice and now they are symptomatic again testing positive again.
The other issue is will people take the vaccine for covid? It's not looking great. The anti-vaxxers have been hard at work these last few months. It's worked. Polling shows that a third of people will refuse a covid vaccine. Only half of the population get's a flu vaccine for example.
If some people have a problem with traditional vaccines, I would think they would have a bigger problem with this vaccine. This is a new approach to vaccinations. Instead of injecting a dead or weaken virus to elicit an immune response, this is a mRNA vaccine. The vaccine is a bit of mRNA to have your own cells to make the spike protein to stimulate your immune system. Some people won't even eat GMO food. I'm not sure how happy they'll be to have some mRNA injected into them.
Post by: alyssa on May 18, 2020, 11:09:40 PM
it's my understanding that a bunch of other first world countries use 'live' vaccines & they're safe.
If some people have a problem with traditional vaccines, I would think they would have a bigger problem with this vaccine. This is a new approach to vaccinations. Instead of injecting a dead or weaken virus to elicit an immune response, this is a mRNA vaccine. The vaccine is a bit of mRNA to have your own cells to make the spike protein to stimulate your immune system. Some people won't even eat GMO food. I'm not sure how happy they'll be to have some mRNA injected into them.
I will be lining up for the vaccine like it's hall h on a saturday ;)
Post by: Mario Wario on May 19, 2020, 06:37:47 AM
Overall, the response was similar to people that recovered from covid. It's still unclear if that's enough for immunity. There's the recent case of the 14 people on the Roosevelt. They had covid, they recovered, they tested negative twice and now they are symptomatic again testing positive again.https://twitter.com/scottgottliebmd/status/1262687204687712256?s=21
Overall, nothing to worry about as the link above says. Unless a virus totally changes overnight, sure, a person can get sick again, but lots of evidence says the coronavirus is not doing that thus far. Also note that some people need extra time to recover after being sick with the virus even when they are still showing some symptoms weeks later.
Post by: Miclpea on May 19, 2020, 06:50:56 AM
Post by: chocolateshake on May 19, 2020, 01:12:24 PM
it's my understanding that a bunch of other first world countries use 'live' vaccines & they're safe.
I will be lining up for the vaccine like it's hall h on a saturday ;)
I get my yearly flu vaccine as soon as it's available. For this though, I'm going to wait. Not because I fear it's efficacy or safety, but because I don't want to be in a Hall H line with a bunch of possibly infected people. I'll wait a few weeks for others to get it and the chances of getting infected on the way to get a vaccine to go down.
Yes, traditional vaccines are also being developed. The problem is traditional vaccines take a long time to make. Like normally 4-5 years. If they get one out in 12-18 months, that will be a record setter. So the question is get a synthetic vaccine or wait a year or two longer for a "live" vaccine.
The reason this vaccine is out so quick is that it's synthetic. I don't remember if it was Moderna, but someone else synthesized their's 48 hours after China published the DNA sequence for covid. It's a brave new world. They don't take a covid virus and chop up it's genetic info to make the vaccine, they just print it out using a gene printer.
https://twitter.com/scottgottliebmd/status/1262687204687712256?s=21
Overall, nothing to worry about as the link above says. Unless a virus totally changes overnight, sure, a person can get sick again, but lots of evidence says the coronavirus is not doing that thus far. Also note that some people need extra time to recover after being sick with the virus even when they are still showing some symptoms weeks later.
Hopefully. That's one opinion. Unfortunately the science isn't out there to support it. Here's a warning from someone that's familiar with viruses that can reinfect after recovery.
https://news.yahoo.com/immunity-covid-19-antibodies-not-190537893.html
Here's a study that shows that only a subset of people that recover from covid have the antibodies that may give them immunity.
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.30.20047365v2
As for the virus changing, it already has. As of the end of March, there were 8 main strains being tracked. The strain in the US is different from the strain in Europe which is different from the strain in China. There are 8 big strains being tracked but there are a whole lot more.
https://nextstrain.org/ncov/global
Luckily in this case, the thing that's being targeted is common to most if not all coronaviruses. So hopefully the vaccine will work on more than just covid. It may work for SARS, MARS and maybe even the common cold. Some of the covid vaccine candidates are old SARS vaccine candidates.
Post by: omraged9 on May 19, 2020, 08:56:17 PM
Work had an all-hands today, first one where they have discussed starting steps for people eventually coming back to work. Thought people might find it interesting.
(https://comiccondad.files.wordpress.com/2020/05/diff.jpg)
Are most people here who have to work closely with co-workers or clients/customers/patients concerned about respiratory droplets/aerosols? I've been using the Lysol aerosol sprays sporadically in my room plus wearing my mask of course. I'm wondering if the aerosols are moot or if I should be spraying it a lot more.
Post by: omraged9 on May 19, 2020, 09:26:41 PM
The big news today is that Moderna released a teaser about it's vaccine's phase 1 clinical trial. It produces antibodies in all participants. That's great news. It produces neutralizing antibodies, the ones we need for a vaccine to work, in 8 participants. That's confusing news. Did they only test 8 people or did only 8 of the people in the trial produce them? If they only tested 8 people, why didn't they test them all? If only 8 people of all participants tested showed neutralizing antibodies, then that's not good.
From what I've read, it takes time to making the neutralizing antibodies. I think their press release stated, "samples are not yet available for remaining participants." Their first phase seemed to really try to figure out how much of a dose they should put in the vaccines and if that dose is safe. I read a blog post on sciencemag that seemed to be optimistic ("so far so good"):
https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2020/05/18/first-results-from-modernas-coronavirus-vaccine
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Overall, the response was similar to people that recovered from covid. It's still unclear if that's enough for immunity. There's the recent case of the 14 people on the Roosevelt. They had covid, they recovered, they tested negative twice and now they are symptomatic again testing positive again.
From the some of the articles I've read the past month, there's suggestions that not everyone's viral shedding progress is the same. It also depends on what parts of the body they're testing from. One of the famous virologists, Christian Drosten, studied this:
https://twitter.com/c_drosten/status/1249791222526468099
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/04/200403115117.htm
There were a couple of other articles that did suggest that not everyone may produce the proper neutralizing antibodies from a covid infection. So that's probably why that even if someone was tested positive for it earlier and has recovered or if they thought they had covid but hadn't been tested, they shouldn't assume that they're fully immune from future infections until they get their proper antibodies checked.
Quote
The other issue is will people take the vaccine for covid? It's not looking great. The anti-vaxxers have been hard at work these last few months. It's worked. Polling shows that a third of people will refuse a covid vaccine. Only half of the population get's a flu vaccine for example.
If some people have a problem with traditional vaccines, I would think they would have a bigger problem with this vaccine. This is a new approach to vaccinations. Instead of injecting a dead or weaken virus to elicit an immune response, this is a mRNA vaccine. The vaccine is a bit of mRNA to have your own cells to make the spike protein to stimulate your immune system. Some people won't even eat GMO food. I'm not sure how happy they'll be to have some mRNA injected into them.
There's going to be a lot of people who will refuse a vaccine, regardless if it's mRNA or not (assuming these people even understand what mRNA means). I don't think we can worry about these people right now. I feel we should take it one step at a time. Besides, for those who are anti-synthetic but not anti-vaxxers, there's going to be other vaccines available too. My impression is that we might end up with a handful of choices of vaccines to take.
The mRNA stuff is fascinating, first of its kind. Scientists are hopeful that if this vaccine works, we can use this mRNA tech for making new vaccines for other diseases.
Post by: omraged9 on May 19, 2020, 09:49:32 PM
I get my yearly flu vaccine as soon as it's available. For this though, I'm going to wait. Not because I fear it's efficacy or safety, but because I don't want to be in a Hall H line with a bunch of possibly infected people. I'll wait a few weeks for others to get it and the chances of getting infected on the way to get a vaccine to go down.
Yes, traditional vaccines are also being developed. The problem is traditional vaccines take a long time to make. Like normally 4-5 years. If they get one out in 12-18 months, that will be a record setter. So the question is get a synthetic vaccine or wait a year or two longer for a "live" vaccine.
It's funny, I don't mind waiting for the vaccine either. I'd be afraid of ADE myself like with dengue fever vaccines. I'm pretty sure there won't be a choice anyway when the vaccine first becomes available. I'm sure it'll go to frontline health care workers and the elderly/immunocompromised people first.
Just curious, is there a reason why people should be more fearful of a synthetic vaccine vs the traditional live attenuated vaccines? Is it because the mRNA tech is brand new or is it because it's merely synthetic?
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As for the virus changing, it already has. As of the end of March, there were 8 main strains being tracked. The strain in the US is different from the strain in Europe which is different from the strain in China. There are 8 big strains being tracked but there are a whole lot more.
https://nextstrain.org/ncov/global
Great graph. I think it's been said that most of the NY strains were from Europe:
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/08/science/new-york-coronavirus-cases-europe-genomes.html
The CA and WA state strains were most likely from China. The good thing is that all the strains seem fundamentally similar enough for one vaccine.
Post by: Mario Wario on May 20, 2020, 10:13:16 PM
Hopefully. That's one opinion. Unfortunately the science isn't out there to support it. Here's a warning from someone that's familiar with viruses that can reinfect after recovery.
https://news.yahoo.com/immunity-covid-19-antibodies-not-190537893.html
Here's a study that shows that only a subset of people that recover from covid have the antibodies that may give them immunity.
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.30.20047365v2
As for the virus changing, it already has. As of the end of March, there were 8 main strains being tracked. The strain in the US is different from the strain in Europe which is different from the strain in China. There are 8 big strains being tracked but there are a whole lot more.
https://nextstrain.org/ncov/global
Luckily in this case, the thing that's being targeted is common to most if not all coronaviruses. So hopefully the vaccine will work on more than just covid. It may work for SARS, MARS, and maybe even the common cold. Some of the covid vaccine candidates are old SARS vaccine candidates.
1. They wouldn’t be saying that if they couldn’t back it up nor if only 1 person said it.
2. https://www.wcvb.com/article/beth-israel-pfizer-researchers-optimistic-about-covid-19-antibody-studies/32619871#
3.
https://youtu.be/01Rftnxbi6w
4. Changes in a virus usually don't indicate anything bad will happen, unless the evidence says so strongly. Btw: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/06/health/coronavirus-mutation-transmission.html and https://www.healthline.com/health-news/what-to-know-about-mutation-and-covid-19 and https://www.theverge.com/21263530/coronavirus-mutation-virus-copies-transmission-tracking-danger (I do know what is currently happening in China in fighting the virus before sharing the links; the northeast region of China I am talking about. I will keep tabs on this ongoing situation, which means I will share something new later.)
5. That would be sweet to see if so with the vaccine.
Post by: chocolateshake on May 21, 2020, 12:14:26 AM
1. They wouldn’t be saying that if they couldn’t back it up nor if only 1 person said it.
"They" are explicitly warning people that it's unclear whether recovery will lead to immunity. That's what some studies have shown as well as the opaque vaccine trial reports. While most people do produce antibodies, those aren't the antibodies that grant immunity. Neutralizing antibodies are the ones that are needed. In the recovered as well as the vaccine trial participants, only a subset of people produce nabs.
https://www.who.int/news-room/commentaries/detail/immunity-passports-in-the-context-of-covid-19
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/05/07/852360101/will-antibodies-after-covid-19-illness-prevent-reinfection
For the other well known coronaviruses, what immunity there is is temporary. From months to a couple of years for SARS and MERS. Much less so for the common cold. That's why people keep getting colds over and over again. It's not because of mutation. The spike protein, the thing these antibodies target, stays the same. It's because the cold is such a mild illness that people don't produce nabs. Thus there is no or limited immunity.
Post by: Mario Wario on May 21, 2020, 12:09:23 PM
"They" are explicitly warning people that it's unclear whether recovery will lead to immunity. That's what some studies have shown as well as the opaque vaccine trial reports. While most people do produce antibodies, those aren't the antibodies that grant immunity. Neutralizing antibodies are the ones that are needed. In the recovered as well as the vaccine trial participants, only a subset of people produce nabs.
https://www.who.int/news-room/commentaries/detail/immunity-passports-in-the-context-of-covid-19
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/05/07/852360101/will-antibodies-after-covid-19-illness-prevent-reinfection
For the other well-known coronaviruses, what immunity there is is temporary. From months to a couple of years for SARS and MERS. Much less so for the common cold. That's why people keep getting colds over and over again. It's not because of mutation. The spike protein, the thing these antibodies target, stays the same. It's because the cold is such a mild illness that people don't produce nabs. Thus there is no or limited immunity.
1. Welcome to the medical community saying nothing is ever ‘guaranteed‘, even when the ‘optimistic’ evidence says the world should be optimistic.
2. With the WHO, the leaders say “We don’t know what we already don’t know,” or “We better watch out, the virus is coming for us all!” than anything else. The basic information we all already know. They also have backtracked on certain information too, during this outbreak. So, be careful just by going to them only. Keep doing what you did by including other links like that NPR one. Lastly: https://time.com/5826025/taiwan-who-trump-coronavirus-covid19/ (Up to you on making an opinion on what the Times says in that article.)
3. Like Luke said to Rey in Episode 8: “Breathe. Just breathe.” The world is not fighting a super virus, just an evil, nasty one that we humans can beat. Now let’s be realistic on this matter? Yes! Anything can happen and we need to be careful. Should we think we are doomed for life now? No. Do we need to send Bruce Willis back in time to help save the future? Nope.
Post by: marcia29 on May 21, 2020, 12:24:10 PM
Do we need to send Bruce Willis back in time to help save the future? Nope.
To quote Randy Quaid in Independence Day..... "Are you sure? :P
Post by: Mario Wario on May 21, 2020, 01:26:29 PM
To quote Randy Quaid in Independence Day..... "Are you sure? :P(https://media3.giphy.com/media/3oEjHF6qZAc5T6sXOo/giphy.gif?cid=82a1493baa270f9a137825d8c01c5a7b08263e19a2854b5b&rid=giphy.gif)
Post by: chocolateshake on May 21, 2020, 01:31:06 PM
2. With the WHO, the leaders say “We don’t know what we already don’t know,” or “We better watch out, the virus is coming for us all!” than anything else. The basic information we all already know. They also have backtracked on certain information too, during this outbreak. So, be careful just by going to them only. Keep doing what you did by including other links like that NPR one. Lastly: https://time.com/5826025/taiwan-who-trump-coronavirus-covid19/ (Up to you on making an opinion on what the Times says in that article.)
The WHO is being responsible. They aren't my only source of information. Be careful of forming your opinion based only on Twitter and Youtube posts.
So much is unknown right now. Including whether there will be immunity from a vaccine or recovery. The funniest comment I saw about that was from a researcher on CNN who said he thought the Moderna teaser release said it was negative when he read it. He thought they said it didn't work since they said it worked about as well as the recovered. He was then surprised when the press was so excited that it was a good result.
Here's another example. The Oxford vaccine results were glowing a few days ago.
https://www.businessinsider.com/monkeys-given-new-oxford-vaccine-coronavirus-free-strong-exposure-encouraging-2020-4?op=1
Now on further thought.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/williamhaseltine/2020/05/16/did-the-oxford-covid-vaccine-work-in-monkeys-not-really/#71a272b23c71
As for who knew when. The reports are that US intelligence knew and warned the administration about the outbreak last November. We didn't do anything about it. But those are just reports. What's fact is that South Korea, Taiwan and the United States all officially found out at the same time. South Korea and Taiwan acted and have some of the lowest cases and deaths in the world. The US did not act until much later and we have the most cases and the most deaths.
Post by: Chris on May 21, 2020, 02:47:22 PM
1. Welcome to the medical community saying nothing is ever ‘guaranteed‘, even when the ‘optimistic’ evidence says the world should be optimistic.
2. With the WHO, the leaders say “We don’t know what we already don’t know,” or “We better watch out, the virus is coming for us all!” than anything else. The basic information we all already know. They also have backtracked on certain information too, during this outbreak. So, be careful just by going to them only. Keep doing what you did by including other links like that NPR one. Lastly: https://time.com/5826025/taiwan-who-trump-coronavirus-covid19/ (Up to you on making an opinion on what the Times says in that article.)
3. Like Luke said to Rey in Episode 8: “Breathe. Just breathe.” The world is not fighting a super virus, just an evil, nasty one that we humans can beat. Now let’s be realistic on this matter? Yes! Anything can happen and we need to be careful. Should we think we are doomed for life now? No. Do we need to send Bruce Willis back in time to help save the future? Nope.
I'd be all for John McClane showing up and kicking the virus' butt.
Post by: Mario Wario on May 21, 2020, 02:49:18 PM
The WHO is being responsible. They aren't my only source of information. Be careful about forming your opinion based only on Twitter and Youtube posts.Yup, that’s why many should avoid inaccurate information when using Twitter and/or YouTube. The dark part of the web is on a mission to misinform the world, too.
So much is unknown right now. Including whether there will be immunity from a vaccine or recovery. The funniest comment I saw about that was from a researcher on CNN who said he thought the Moderna teaser release said it was negative when he read it. He thought they said it didn't work since they said it worked about as well as the recovered. He was then surprised when the press was so excited that it was a good result.
Here's another example. The Oxford vaccine results were glowing a few days ago.
https://www.businessinsider.com/monkeys-given-new-oxford-vaccine-coronavirus-free-strong-exposure-encouraging-2020-4?op=1
Now on further thought.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/williamhaseltine/2020/05/16/did-the-oxford-covid-vaccine-work-in-monkeys-not-really/#71a272b23c71
As for who knew when. The reports are that US intelligence knew and warned the administration about the outbreak last November. We didn't do anything about it. But those are just reports. What's fact is that South Korea, Taiwan, and the United States all officially found out at the same time. South Korea and Taiwan acted and have some of the lowest cases and deaths in the world. The US did not act until much later and we have the most cases and the most deaths.
As for the ever-changing daily information, all we can do is this:
(https://media.giphy.com/media/tyqcJoNjNv0Fq/giphy.gif)
And to stay up to date the best we can. The WHO being responsible during this outbreak? Maybe now...but it sure didn’t seem like they were from the start of this outbreak. Regardless, I just want everyone to bring their best when fighting the virus.
Speaking of Taiwan and South Korea, both took matters in their own hands, knowing how close they were to the viral outbreak, and not trusting China too, after looking at past outbreaks. As for the US, things could have turned out better, I won’t argue with you there, although with China silencing those who were trying to alert the rest of the world last winter doesn’t help as well. Europe, for example, would have liked getting some of that warning I’m sure. Overall, I still see more “I” than “we” with China. Shocking, right?
I'd be all for John McClane showing up and kicking the virus' butt.Same here!
Post by: puppy on May 21, 2020, 11:23:27 PM
I won’t argue with you there, although with China silencing those who were trying to alert the rest of the world last winter doesn’t help as well. Europe, for example, would have liked getting some of that warning I’m sure. Overall, I still see more “I” than “we” with China. Shocking, right?
Same here!
I will argue this point. It matters not whether China silenced anything. Even when it was obvious how bad this thing was and people were dying on ships and all over Italy, the U.S. government played it down. So, even when obvious, we did nothing. If China had come out with bullhorns ablaring, we would have done nothing. Right now, we know darn well what it can do, and we're rushing to open everything back up. People are protesting, gathering in groups without masks, etc. We should not be blaming China for our own stupidity.
Post by: Miclpea on May 22, 2020, 01:04:17 AM
I will argue this point. It matters not whether China silenced anything. Even when it was obvious how bad this thing was and people were dying on ships and all over Italy, the U.S. government played it down. So, even when obvious, we did nothing. If China had come out with bullhorns ablaring, we would have done nothing. Right now, we know darn well what it can do, and we're rushing to open everything back up. People are protesting, gathering in groups without masks, etc. We should not be blaming China for our own stupidity.The intelligence community warned the President in December and January that China was lying about the problem and he ignored them. That’s on him.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Post by: Mario Wario on May 22, 2020, 08:41:48 AM
I will argue this point. It matters not whether China silenced anything. Even when it was obvious how bad this thing was and people were dying on ships and all over Italy, the U.S. government played it down. So, even when obvious, we did nothing. If China had come out with bullhorns ablaring, we would have done nothing. Right now, we know darn well what it can do, and we're rushing to open everything back up. People are protesting, gathering in groups without masks, etc. We should not be blaming China for our own stupidity.(https://media2.giphy.com/media/XZgGLipvkxECXfSHMd/giphy.gif?cid=82a1493b5111cabf67850f365cdb31366fe82e673efa42ea&rid=giphy.gif)
Post by: chocolateshake on May 22, 2020, 05:12:54 PM
I will argue this point. It matters not whether China silenced anything. Even when it was obvious how bad this thing was and people were dying on ships and all over Italy, the U.S. government played it down. So, even when obvious, we did nothing. If China had come out with bullhorns ablaring, we would have done nothing. Right now, we know darn well what it can do, and we're rushing to open everything back up. People are protesting, gathering in groups without masks, etc. We should not be blaming China for our own stupidity.
I agree. I find it extremely hypocritical what the Trump administration is doing. They are trying to find scapegoats where ever they can to divert blame for their own failings.
The local Wuhan authorities tried to silence it initially. Beijing overrode that and blew the warning horn to the world. In China now, that doctor is touted as a hero.
One person may have been silenced in China. The Trump administration has tried to silence many more than one. The CDC as a whole, the Captain of the Roosevelt, Fauci, Bright, Redfield ... The list goes on and on. That's just the big profile names. How many people that aren't that well known trying to do the right thing have been silenced? We'll never know.
Here in the US, Trump repeatedly downplayed the pandemic. He still does. He recently said that if we don't test then we won't have as many cases. What? Just 2 days ago, the world had the most number of new covid cases in one day ever. Yet the Trump administration is trying to convince people that it's all over. It hasn't even peaked.
So he's trying to cast blame where ever he can to divert from where the blame should fall. On himself. One organization he's trying to make into a scapegoat is the WHO. It's sad that some are falling for it. The WHO is a very reputable organization.
Post by: Mario Wario on May 22, 2020, 07:37:26 PM
I agree. I find it extremely hypocritical what the Trump administration is doing. They are trying to find scapegoats where ever they can to divert blame for their own failings.(https://media.giphy.com/media/1zSz5MVw4zKg0/giphy.gif)
The local Wuhan authorities tried to silence it initially. Beijing overrode that and blew the warning horn to the world. In China now, that doctor is touted as a hero.
One person may have been silenced in China. The Trump administration has tried to silence many more than one. The CDC as a whole, the Captain of the Roosevelt, Fauci, Bright, Redfield ... The list goes on and on. That's just the big profile names. How many people that aren't that well known trying to do the right thing have been silenced? We'll never know.
Here in the US, Trump repeatedly downplayed the pandemic. He still does. He recently said that if we don't test then we won't have as many cases. What? Just 2 days ago, the world had the most number of new covid cases in one day ever. Yet the Trump administration is trying to convince people that it's all over. It hasn't even peaked. (Debatable when looking at data.) - MW
So he's trying to cast blame where ever he can to divert from where the blame should fall. On himself. One organization he's trying to make into a scapegoat is the WHO. It's sad that some are falling for it. The WHO is a very reputable organization. (Debatable now due to suspect leadership.) - MW
Post by: chocolateshake on May 22, 2020, 08:08:34 PM
Post by: chocolateshake on May 26, 2020, 09:24:38 PM
Why is it so hard for some people to do the right thing?
In another development, counting on antibody testing to allow people back to work was dealt a blow today. The CDC is warning that antibody testing may only be right half the time. Depending on the situation, if someone tests positive for covid antibodies there's only a 49% chance that that person actually has covid antibodies. It's a coin toss.
"For example, in a population where the prevalence is 5%, a test with 90% sensitivity and 95% specificity will yield a positive predictive value of 49%. In other words, less than half of those testing positive will truly have antibodies."
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/lab/resources/antibody-tests-guidelines.html
Post by: omraged9 on May 29, 2020, 12:18:48 AM
Btw, China is still lying about the covid origins. Just another example of how scummy their gov't is.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/13/world/asia/coronavirus-china-conspiracy-theory.html
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/coronavirus-patient-zero-china-trolls/
It's definitely being spread in Chinese news. My parents watch Chinese news and seem to believe this conspiracy theory. So their gov't and our Trump-led gov't, just two sides of the same coin. It would almost be hilarious to see our two gov'ts try to out-lie each other if it weren't for all the causalities from all the lies.
Post by: puppy on June 01, 2020, 08:01:47 AM
Btw, China is still lying about the covid origins. Just another example of how scummy their gov't is.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/13/world/asia/coronavirus-china-conspiracy-theory.html
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/coronavirus-patient-zero-china-trolls/
It's definitely being spread in Chinese news. My parents watch Chinese news and seem to believe this conspiracy theory. So their gov't and our Trump-led gov't, just two sides of the same coin.
That they are two sides of the same coin, I would agree with here. Our government is no better than theirs, so we should stop throwing stones and just get on with digging ourselves out of this hole.
Post by: alyssa on June 01, 2020, 10:06:36 AM
This year needs to stop
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Post by: chocolateshake on June 01, 2020, 11:52:48 AM
That they are two sides of the same coin, I would agree with here. Our government is no better than theirs, so we should stop throwing stones and just get on with digging ourselves out of this hole.
It's the hypocrisy that I find most irritating. We often criticize others while proceeding to do the same ourselves.
In times like this, historically the world does come together to solve the problem. Allies and enemies put aside their differences and work for the common good. Recriminations come, but they come after the crisis. This time, we are splintering apart before it's even peaked. Pulling out of the WHO in the middle of a pandemic is not wise. Not for us, not for the world.
Post by: brand4d2 on June 21, 2020, 12:42:10 PM
I’ve been on the frontlines for the past 3.5 months - work is at a healthcare facility and we’ve constantly had 12-20 covid positives in our care during that time. Some got better, some we lost but no matter what, others always took their places. It’s taken a huge toll on all of us here and so it bothers me greatly that so many in the outside world just treat it like a joke, a major inconvenience.
Post by: TardisMom on June 22, 2020, 09:16:16 AM
Finally checking in...
I’ve been on the frontlines for the past 3.5 months - work is at a healthcare facility and we’ve constantly had 12-20 covid positives in our care during that time. Some got better, some we lost but no matter what, others always took their places. It’s taken a huge toll on all of us here and so it bothers me greatly that so many in the outside world just treat it like a joke, a major inconvenience.
Thank you for all you do for your patients, @brand4d2 (https://www.friendsofcc.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=819) !
Post by: chocolateshake on June 22, 2020, 09:18:20 PM
It’s taken a huge toll on all of us here and so it bothers me greatly that so many in the outside world just treat it like a joke, a major inconvenience.
That's the saddest part about the whole thing. So many have died, so many have gotten sick and so many have suffered financially. Yet it seems like many Americans have decided they are bored with the pandemic and have decided they no longer care. So now we are worse off than we were 3 months ago.
Post by: Andrew Costa Mesa on June 22, 2020, 10:16:01 PM
So over the last three months, all my get-togethers and socializing has been via Zoom (which I also own stock in). Earlier in the pandemic, most of our groceries has been via Instacart, but we’ve done some in-person groceries as well with face masks. I do take walks with Mom making sure we don’t get close to anybody. This past weekend we ran into friends at a nearby park while social distancing. Three weekends ago, we had our first haircuts in four months. Today, my gym reopened, but my brother warns me not to use it.
So that’s my life in a nutshell in the Covid-19 era!
Post by: chocolateshake on June 23, 2020, 12:12:09 AM
About a month ago with a doctor’s note, I took an antibody test at Quest Diagnostics to see if I have been exposed to Covid-19. As of a month ago, I have not. This morning, at the urging of my worry-wart brother, I took a blood test to see what my blood type is. If it’s Type-O, I have a somewhat lower chance of getting seriously sick if I get infected. If it’s Type-A, then I have a greater chance of getting seriously ill.
According to CDC guidance, there's no place in the US where the antibody tests are more than 50% accurate. So even if you test positive for antibodies, there's only a 50% chance that you really have antibodies. It's a coin toss.
Blood type effect was initially announced about 3 months ago out of China. It was confirmed by both the US and Europe about 2 weeks ago. As in many things during this pandemic, China is ahead of the curve by about 3 months. They make announcements which are greeted with skepticism but then are later confirmed by the rest of the world. Wearing a mask is the prime example of that.
Type O is good. Type A is not good. I'm type O but the benefit, while welcome, is not so much as to change my behavior at all. Being type O doesn't make someone impervious. Type O reduces the chances of being so sick as to need a ventilator, but that doesn't mean there won't be consequences. That's something else that the Chinese reported a few months ago that's now being confirmed in the rest of the world. Even after someone recovers, they may not fully recover. There can be permanent damage. Even for the lucky that are asymptomatic, they may still have permanent organ damage. They may not notice it now, but they may a few years down the road. The more and more we learn about covid. The worse and worse it gets. Covid is not a respiratory illness. It's a whole body illness that's spread through the respiratory system. To paraphrase Peter Piot, it effects every cell in the body.
Post by: Andrew Costa Mesa on June 25, 2020, 11:30:48 AM
Type O is good. Type A is not good. I'm type O but the benefit, while welcome, is not so much as to change my behavior at all. Being type O doesn't make someone impervious. Type O reduces the chances of being so sick as to need a ventilator, but that doesn't mean there won't be consequences. That's something else that the Chinese reported a few months ago that's now being confirmed in the rest of the world. Even after someone recovers, they may not fully recover. There can be permanent damage. Even for the lucky that are asymptomatic, they may still have permanent organ damage. They may not notice it now, but they may a few years down the road. The more and more we learn about covid. The worse and worse it gets. Covid is not a respiratory illness. It's a whole body illness that's spread through the respiratory system. To paraphrase Peter Piot, it effects every cell in the body.
FWIW, my doctor just called back with my blood type test results. I'm Type-O positive.
http://apnews.com/7200199044b318f992402b411c3ea4d0
Post by: chocolateshake on June 25, 2020, 01:16:35 PM
FWIW, my doctor just called back with my blood type test results. I'm Type-O positive.
I'm the same. Roughly half the population is Type O. It's the most common blood type. Unfortunately Type A is the second most common.
I've known my blood type since elementary school. We tested for it ourselves. This was decades ago before there were relatively painless spring loaded lancets. To a fourth grader, we used what looked like a little spear to poke ourselves.
Post by: semigeekgirl on June 25, 2020, 01:41:32 PM
I'm the same. Roughly half the population is Type O. It's the most common blood type. Unfortunately Type A is the second most common.
I've known my blood type since elementary school. We tested for it ourselves. This was decades ago before there were relatively painless spring loaded lancets. To a fourth grader, we used what looked like a little spear to poke ourselves.
My mom told me about doing that in school when she was a kid! It's mind-boggling now to think of a school being so cavalier about letting all the kids cut themselves and then potentially bleed on each other/the whole classroom.
Post by: perc2100 on June 25, 2020, 03:18:13 PM
My mom told me about doing that in school when she was a kid! It's mind-boggling now to think of a school being so cavalier about letting all the kids cut themselves and then potentially bleed on each other/the whole classroom.Seriously! I've heard similar stories, but as a teacher I can't fathom doing something like that nowadays. I'm a band teacher, and I'm not shy about letting students tinker with instruments/tools in order to solve problems, but giving kids needles or whatever to poke themselves/draw blood seems like a serious no-no!
Post by: Andrew Costa Mesa on June 25, 2020, 03:32:21 PM
Post by: brand4d2 on June 25, 2020, 09:58:30 PM
If I really were covid positive, walking towards me would be the worst thing one could do so that doesn’t make too much sense to me. It sure does not help when certain prominent leaders fan the flames of such negativity.
When the quarantine and lockdown period began, I thought working in a facility where covid patients would be treated would be in and of itself the most difficult thing. And for the first few weeks it was...it was extremely terrifying just setting foot on the floor where our covid care ward is located. It felt like being in a combo of Stranger Things and Jurassic Park where the virus could be anywhere and strike at any time.
Fast forward to now and that part is easy compared to seeing all the resistance and noncompliance with masks and distancing and not gathering in large groups. Or else the anti Asian/Chinese rhetoric or the “covid is a hoax” rhetoric. I really could not have envisioned that coping mentally with all this would be the greatest challenge.
Post by: Andrew Costa Mesa on June 25, 2020, 10:39:46 PM
Sorry you got confronted with the reality of public transportation. It seems to be a magnet for crazies of all races. I grew up in New York and had to put up with them on occasion. Sometimes I watch videos of public transportation shouting matches and fist fights on YouTube.
Post by: Miclpea on June 26, 2020, 03:17:09 PM
http://comic-cons.xyz/events/
Post by: TardisMom on June 26, 2020, 08:08:26 PM
@Andrew Costa Mesa (https://www.friendsofcc.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=460) I'm sorry you and your mom were targeted as well. What is wrong with people!?!
Post by: Andrew Costa Mesa on June 29, 2020, 01:34:42 AM
@brand4d2 (https://www.friendsofcc.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=819) I'm so sorry that happened to you! People can really be horrible.
@Andrew Costa Mesa (https://www.friendsofcc.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=460) I'm sorry you and your mom were targeted as well. What is wrong with people!?!
Two things 1.) Some people react badly during a crisis/pandemic and 2.) We have a leader who doesn't lead by example. That's what's wrong with people!
Post by: VeggieKitten on June 29, 2020, 01:50:14 AM
Two things 1.) Some people react badly during a crisis/pandemic and 2.) We have a leader who doesn't lead by example. That's what's wrong with people!I’ve been hearing about these incidents more and more. It’s racist scapegoating and despicable!
Post by: VeggieKitten on June 29, 2020, 01:56:55 AM
How awful! Please be careful and thank you for taking care of the patients. I read an article in Time magazine about this issue today.
https://time.com/5858649/racism-coronavirus/
Post by: Chris on June 29, 2020, 07:57:32 AM
I have to say that recent events genuinely make me sad that racism and many other forms of discrimination are very much alive and well in 2020. I thought we had progressed further past this than we are.
Post by: chocolateshake on June 29, 2020, 09:04:50 PM
I had someone harass, threaten and discriminate against me on our Los Angeles public transit today. They got up out of their seat, walked towards me and screamed about “why am I spreading the virus” and to “bring it back to your country”. The entire time I’m “Jedi Mind Tricking” and hoping he stops his nonsense and hatred and walks back to his seat.
You have more Jedi calm than me. In those situations I'm up on my feet and giving as good as I get.
At least you live in LA. San Diego is still pretty redneck. It's much better than it used to be but there are still parts of the county where people openly wear KKK hoods and are not shy about displaying swastikas. Growing up here as a kid, I saw more Confederate flags than Old Glory.
Fast forward to now and that part is easy compared to seeing all the resistance and noncompliance with masks and distancing and not gathering in large groups. Or else the anti Asian/Chinese rhetoric or the “covid is a hoax” rhetoric. I really could not have envisioned that coping mentally with all this would be the greatest challenge.
I feel the same. The saddest part is the apathy of the American public. They've gotten bored with covid and have decided to move on. In the US, the pandemic is worse than it's ever been yet so many people are acting like it's old news.
brand4d2, I’m sorry you experienced that. I’m half Vietnamese and my mother is Vietnamese and I worry for her when she goes out. I feel I have to guard her 24/7. A couple of weeks ago, I took her to a Vietnamese market and from a distance a white woman who looks like she hasn’t showered in over a month was yelling “YOU DON’T BELONG HERE.” I kept my mother a safe distance from her, but had she gotten close to us, I think there’s a good chance either one of us would end up in jail.
I feel the same about my parents. If anyone messes with them, it's going to be a problem. While a lot of racism comes from people that are un-kept, there are people that are perfectly presentable that are the same. You can't judge a book by it's cover. The recent spat of videos from New York and SF demonstrate that.
Sorry you got confronted with the reality of public transportation. It seems to be a magnet for crazies of all races. I grew up in New York and had to put up with them on occasion. Sometimes I watch videos of public transportation shouting matches and fist fights on YouTube.
New York public transit is downright delightful compared to San Diego. People that only visit San Diego during comic-con don't realize how bad it is. Since comic-con attendees so overwhelm the regular ridership. It completely changes the atmosphere. Outside of that on the Trolley I've seen fist fights, one so close that it got blood on my backpack. I don't even ride the Trolley that much outside of comic-con, only to and from the airport.
I've taken public transit all over the world. From France to China to Thailand to Peru. It doesn't have to be bad. In most of those countries it's great. Especially in China and Japan.
Post by: brand4d2 on July 01, 2020, 08:03:24 PM
@brand4d2 (https://www.friendsofcc.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=819)
How awful! Please be careful and thank you for taking care of the patients. I read an article in Time magazine about this issue today.
https://time.com/5858649/racism-coronavirus/
Thanks! Also thank you for that article link
Post by: alyssa on July 06, 2020, 07:18:11 AM
this weekend we had all of the surrounding counties in semi-lockdown. SD was not so everyone came here for the long weekend. //sigh
rumor has it we're going back into lockdown on Tuesday.
I've been stocking up on food and essentials - I have a two month supply of TB & paper towels LOL
IKEA likely will close again, but home depot will continue there curbside pick up.
Post by: Miclpea on July 06, 2020, 09:57:29 AM
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: alyssa on July 06, 2020, 11:08:24 AM
How did your move go?
Good, i'm trying to get normalized now, ie unpacking & figuring out teh kitchen logic. that has me stumped.
In addition to being busy with getting back into my class and fixing everything that broke during the move
coffee grinder
motorcycle clutch
new grill
Post by: Transmute Jun on July 06, 2020, 02:43:57 PM
Near the stovetop: pots, frying pans, baking spoons/spatulas, spice rack/shelf
Near the oven: baking pans, oven mitts
Near the sink: cutting board, knives, strainers/collanders
Silverware should be in the drawer closest to the cabinet where you store plates and bowls. Preferably, all eating implements are close to your dishwasher (if you have one) or your sink/dishrack (if you don't).
JMHO... this is what makes the most sense for me.
Post by: alyssa on July 06, 2020, 08:12:33 PM
Kitchen logic: put things where you need them.if i had the space, yes that would make sense, however I've got one cabinet with in easy reach of the stove & dishwasher. All of the other cabinets require a foot stool. yes i am height challenged.
Near the stovetop: pots, frying pans, baking spoons/spatulas, spice rack/shelf
Near the oven: baking pans, oven mitts
Near the sink: cutting board, knives, strainers/collanders
Silverware should be in the drawer closest to the cabinet where you store plates and bowls. Preferably, all eating implements are close to your dishwasher (if you have one) or your sink/dishrack (if you don't).
JMHO... this is what makes the most sense for me.
i've got to hunt for a spice caddy that will fit
Post by: chocolateshake on July 08, 2020, 06:35:06 PM
A couple of weeks ago, I took her to a Vietnamese market and from a distance a white woman who looks like she hasn’t showered in over a month was yelling “YOU DON’T BELONG HERE.”
Here's an example of you can find racism from anyone anywhere. Here's a well dressed CEO of a tech company in San Francisco. Tech has a lot of Asians in it. The Bay Area is roughly 33% Asian. If it can happen there, in that industry, it can happen anywhere.
https://news.yahoo.com/san-francisco-tech-ceo-filmed-002721448.html
The waitress at that restaurant is a hero.
https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2020/07/08/waitress-gennica-cochran-michael-lofthouse-racist-insults-online-fundraisers/
Post by: perc2100 on July 09, 2020, 10:23:46 AM
well, sd has missed the worst of it till now.Man, I hit the 'almost-worst' of it myself this past July 4th weekend. I've been out of my house literally 12 times since mid-March and I somehow got he worst sick I've ever gotten (of course, a couple of those times were last week trying to get my car smog-checked/fixed). From July 4th-July 6th I couldn't even keep down fluid, let alone food. I was _seriously_ terrified I'd have to go to a hospital of an IV or something to rehydrate but luckily (? maybe not?) I was stubborn enough my wife didn't force the issue. By July 7th I was able to hold down some gatorade & a few bowl of crackers and by the 8th I hadn't puked for almost 24 hours. I was soooo weak/wobbly yesterday: and exhausted. Like, walking from the couch to the kitchen & back took all my energy (note: I live in an 1100 square foot condo). I'd never been this sick for this long before!
this weekend we had all of the surrounding counties in semi-lockdown. SD was not so everyone came here for the long weekend. //sigh
rumor has it we're going back into lockdown on Tuesday.
I've been stocking up on food and essentials - I have a two month supply of TB & paper towels LOL
IKEA likely will close again, but home depot will continue there curbside pick up.
Today, July 9th, I feel even closer to 'normal:' like, I actually feel thirsty, as opposed to "I know I have to force myself to drink as much water/gatorade/whatever as possible" and eating PB toast didn't feel like an arduous chore. Luckily my wife & 2 kids are fine, and seem unaffected so I'll take that as a win! Last night my wife was able to sleep in bed again for the first time since Friday (she stay in the living room/couch from Sat-Tues while I crashed in bed).
I can only assume I caught some gnarly bug from a mechanic or smog tester or something. I haven't eaten out/gotten pick-up since early March so it's not food poisoning. This is just your friendly reminder than in the midst of a pandemic you can still get sick in other awful ways.
Post by: TardisMom on July 09, 2020, 11:19:22 AM
Man, I hit the 'almost-worst' of it myself this past July 4th weekend. I've been out of my house literally 12 times since mid-March and I somehow got he worst sick I've ever gotten (of course, a couple of those times were last week trying to get my car smog-checked/fixed). From July 4th-July 6th I couldn't even keep down fluid, let alone food. I was _seriously_ terrified I'd have to go to a hospital of an IV or something to rehydrate but luckily (? maybe not?) I was stubborn enough my wife didn't force the issue. By July 7th I was able to hold down some gatorade & a few bowl of crackers and by the 8th I hadn't puked for almost 24 hours. I was soooo weak/wobbly yesterday: and exhausted. Like, walking from the couch to the kitchen & back took all my energy (note: I live in an 1100 square foot condo). I'd never been this sick for this long before!
Today, July 9th, I feel even closer to 'normal:' like, I actually feel thirsty, as opposed to "I know I have to force myself to drink as much water/gatorade/whatever as possible" and eating PB toast didn't feel like an arduous chore. Luckily my wife & 2 kids are fine, and seem unaffected so I'll take that as a win! Last night my wife was able to sleep in bed again for the first time since Friday (she stay in the living room/couch from Sat-Tues while I crashed in bed).
I can only assume I caught some gnarly bug from a mechanic or smog tester or something. I haven't eaten out/gotten pick-up since early March so it's not food poisoning. This is just your friendly reminder than in the midst of a pandemic you can still get sick in other awful ways.
Would be interesting to see the results if you get the antibody test. I've heard of so many different symptoms with the virus!
Post by: Miss Kitty on July 09, 2020, 12:00:57 PM
Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
Post by: chocolateshake on July 09, 2020, 12:14:22 PM
(of course, a couple of those times were last week trying to get my car smog-checked/fixed).
My smog test was due right as the lock down happened. So I haven't done it yet. I thought about getting it done recently but then the spike in cases happened so I put it off. I hope the police take heed of the DMV's plea to exercise leniency when it comes to expired registration. I wished the DMV would have suspended the smog requirement this year. That's the only part that needs to be done in person to renew a car registration.
Would be interesting to see the results if you get the antibody test. I've heard of so many different symptoms with the virus!
The latest being brain damage. It's pretty clear now that covid is not a respiratory illness. It's a whole body illness. The lungs are just one of the organs it attacks. Which is more reason not to get it. Even in people with mild illness, there can be lasting damage.
Post by: semigeekgirl on July 09, 2020, 12:49:28 PM
My smog test was due right as the lock down happened. So I haven't done it yet. I thought about getting it done recently but then the spike in cases happened so I put it off. I hope the police take heed of the DMV's plea to exercise leniency when it comes to expired registration. I wished the DMV would have suspended the smog requirement this year. That's the only part that needs to be done in person to renew a car registration.
I'm sure you know this, but the CA DMV is usually pretty lenient about late smog checks as long as the fee gets paid on time. So if you haven't paid the registration fee, you should do that right away. Then get to the smog check when it's safer.
Post by: perc2100 on July 09, 2020, 12:55:10 PM
I'm sure you know this, but the CA DMV is usually pretty lenient about late smog checks as long as the fee gets paid on time. So if you haven't paid the registration fee, you should do that right away. Then get to the smog check when it's safer.This is exactly what I ended up doing: paid registration w/out the smog check.
Post by: perc2100 on July 09, 2020, 12:58:37 PM
Would be interesting to see the results if you get the antibody test. I've heard of so many different symptoms with the virus!Yeah, I've been thinking that: wondering if I did _have_ to go into the hospital for an IV or something, what a test would reveal. I still feel exhausted today, and my heart rate is definitely higher than normal while 'resting.'
FWIW I never had a fever or coughing (outside of coughing due to allergies), though doing some research and talking to others it seems like the symptoms really run the gambit. A friend of my wife's knew someone who had almost exact symptoms I had/have. I dunno. I suspect a huge portion of the country thinks they had COVID-19 (conversely there's likely another large subset who never knew they actually did have it). I more like "being violently ill on July 4 is soooooo on brand for 2020 amiright? :P"
Post by: chocolateshake on July 09, 2020, 01:14:08 PM
I'm sure you know this, but the CA DMV is usually pretty lenient about late smog checks as long as the fee gets paid on time. So if you haven't paid the registration fee, you should do that right away. Then get to the smog check when it's safer.
That's what I did. I paid the fee on time and got the letter saying I wouldn't have to do anything but get the smog test to complete registration. The smog test would be sent electronically and it would all happen automatically. Which is different than the way it used to be. If the fee was paid before the smog test, then you had to physically go into an office and turn in the smog test. So at least they are trying to make it as contactless as possible.
Still without a smog test the registration is not complete. There's no valid registration and thus it's not legal to operate the vehicle on public roads. That's why the DMV issued a plea to law enforcement to be lenient. Since smog tests are every other year for most cars, it would have been great if they had made this a no smog test year for everyone.
Post by: Transmute Jun on July 09, 2020, 02:17:40 PM
Post by: Chris on July 09, 2020, 02:18:07 PM
Man, I hit the 'almost-worst' of it myself this past July 4th weekend. I've been out of my house literally 12 times since mid-March and I somehow got he worst sick I've ever gotten (of course, a couple of those times were last week trying to get my car smog-checked/fixed). From July 4th-July 6th I couldn't even keep down fluid, let alone food. I was _seriously_ terrified I'd have to go to a hospital of an IV or something to rehydrate but luckily (? maybe not?) I was stubborn enough my wife didn't force the issue. By July 7th I was able to hold down some gatorade & a few bowl of crackers and by the 8th I hadn't puked for almost 24 hours. I was soooo weak/wobbly yesterday: and exhausted. Like, walking from the couch to the kitchen & back took all my energy (note: I live in an 1100 square foot condo). I'd never been this sick for this long before!
Today, July 9th, I feel even closer to 'normal:' like, I actually feel thirsty, as opposed to "I know I have to force myself to drink as much water/gatorade/whatever as possible" and eating PB toast didn't feel like an arduous chore. Luckily my wife & 2 kids are fine, and seem unaffected so I'll take that as a win! Last night my wife was able to sleep in bed again for the first time since Friday (she stay in the living room/couch from Sat-Tues while I crashed in bed).
I can only assume I caught some gnarly bug from a mechanic or smog tester or something. I haven't eaten out/gotten pick-up since early March so it's not food poisoning. This is just your friendly reminder than in the midst of a pandemic you can still get sick in other awful ways.
Sorry that happened to you. Getting sick these days is scary.
A coworker got me sick right when all this started. Not cool of him.
Post by: hikanteki on July 10, 2020, 11:28:47 AM
Post by: Devorah on July 10, 2020, 07:54:35 PM
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Post by: alyssa on July 11, 2020, 09:22:48 AM
Post by: chocolateshake on July 12, 2020, 06:15:40 PM
Post by: Chris on July 12, 2020, 10:49:43 PM
Mine is only 3 days.
Post by: Miss Kitty on July 13, 2020, 07:22:42 AM
Im curious. How long have people stayed quarantined with no other contact like groceries, deliveries, etc.3 weeks
Mine is only 3 days.
Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
Post by: alyssa on July 13, 2020, 09:17:26 AM
I just finished running around the outside of the house making sure there wasn't a fire. The air outside has that acrid electric ozone smell. I think it's the Navy ship burning in the harbor. That's about 10 miles away.
i was smelling the electrical fire smell in El Cerrito yesterday afternoon. nothing this morning.
@Chris (https://www.friendsofcc.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=3) for me the gating factor is fresh veg/fruit & milk. If i stock up on cabbage/B.sprouts/froz. veg & freeze milk, i can go 10 ish days
but i'm on a weight loss program & staying away from carbs
Post by: jamiesugah on July 13, 2020, 09:43:17 AM
Unfortunately, the company was doing things like offering free lunches to whoever was working. Now that people are starting to come back, the lunches have stopped and the cafeteria is open, but because my building isn't technically reopening, I did not know that. I was walking up to the main complex to get lunch on the weeks that it was my turn to be in the office, and today I discovered there aren't any more lunches. If I'd known that, I could have brought my own food. Now I have to go buy something.
Post by: perc2100 on July 13, 2020, 10:03:39 AM
Im curious. How long have people stayed quarantined with no other contact like groceries, deliveries, etc.
Mine is only 3 days.
I literally haven't set foot in a grocery store since March 16th. My wife has gone to Trader Joe's twice & Target twice (once as 'deliver/pick-up' and once last weekend when I was really sick). We have Amazon Prime so we get groceries delivered. I have been to my local pharmacy 3 times since March 16th for my monthly prescription, but it's incredibly well-run & clean.
There are too many stupid people, even in our neck of the woods in San Diego, who refuse to wear masks in a pandemic. My wife has asthma so we're being extra cautious for the most part.
Post by: alyssa on July 13, 2020, 10:25:31 AM
the wind must have shifted between 7:30a and 10am
Post by: perc2100 on July 13, 2020, 10:33:45 AM
the smell of the ship fire is strong this morning in el cerrito-the video I saw yesterday on the local news looked awful
the wind must have shifted between 7:30a and 10am
Post by: alyssa on July 13, 2020, 11:38:34 AM
the video I saw yesterday on the local news looked awfuli was downtown yesterday at around 2pm & smelled nothing. i was close to the convention center too-
Post by: chocolateshake on July 13, 2020, 11:59:04 AM
the smell of the ship fire is strong this morning in el cerrito-
the wind must have shifted between 7:30a and 10am
I was thinking that we would have to keep the AC on all night. But last night at around 10PM the air cleared and has stayed that way.
I was really kind of freaking out when I first smelled it. I thought a solar panel had shorted out.
Im curious. How long have people stayed quarantined with no other contact like groceries, deliveries, etc.
Mine is only 3 days.
My longest single stretch has been about a month. Then the dog started having multiple health problems. So now I'm gated by a vet visit every 1-2 weeks, unfortunate timing. If it wasn't for that, I have enough food to be buttoned up for 3 months as long as the water keeps running. That would be using up our emergency freeze dried end of the world the zombies are on the march supplies.
I used to order food to be delivered but now I've converted over to Walmart drive up pickup which works great. The handful of times I've stepped into a store was to hit a pharmacy to get medicine for the dog.
There are too many stupid people, even in our neck of the woods in San Diego, who refuse to wear masks in a pandemic. My wife has asthma so we're being extra cautious for the most part.
I don't think many people conceptually get the point of wearing a mask. At the vets, the parking lot has become the waiting room. People are very good about wearing a mask when they leave their car but they seem to think there's a magic shield around them while they are in it. They don't wear a mask. A lot of people drive pickups or SUVs so the parking lot has turned into an impromptu tailgate party. People sit out the back of their SUV or on the tailgate of their pickup. They sit there chatting away with the person in the next truck over that's about 3 feet away without masks on.
I don't know why there are so many people at the vet. Normally I only see 3 or 4 people in the waiting room. Now the entire parking lot is full and some people even have to park on the street. It could be that people that used to drop off their friends and then pick them up later are now waiting instead.
Post by: chocolateshake on July 13, 2020, 12:40:07 PM
This is during the summer lull, this winter is not looking good.
Post by: chocolateshake on July 24, 2020, 05:26:05 PM
Post by: hikanteki on September 05, 2020, 07:59:35 PM
Post by: alyssa on September 05, 2020, 09:27:34 PM
I had to make an urgent medication run this afternoon. I went to a store that I haven't gone to since I locked down. So I haven't taken this route in 4 months. I didn't realize there was a covid drive thru test site so close to where I live. It wasn't what I expected. On the news the wait is all day and the line miles long. There was no one there. Not a single car. A long line had been roped off, it bled into the next parking lot over but there weren't any cars. Just a bunch of people in scrubs sitting in the hot sun waiting. At least now I know where to go.
Well, a friend of a friend tested positive & it was suggested i get tested.
after looking on the SD 211 site i found a site open today that didn't require a reservation. there was one car ahead of me.
I should have results in 3-5 days so Tues-thursday.
I hate this, every throat twinge/cough is the 'omg, i've got covid'
if i am exposed, it would be my second time so chances are the symptoms would be less severe.
If negative, i'm likely going to have to have a second test
Post by: alyssa on September 05, 2020, 09:35:20 PM
This phase is pretty depressing. While more things have been reopening...we’ve also been getting back the bad things that come along with it (traffic, crowds, slightly more difficult parking) but with none of the nice things (cons, concerts) while many of the discounts that we saw back in March/April on food and especially beer have vanished. Business travel has been replaced by Zoom meetings, which basically keeps everything bad about these conferences (schmoozing, abundancy of talks that may not be that interesting or useful) with nothing good about them (nice hotel, amusing after hours events, general change of scenery.) Cons that were rescheduled from spring to later in the year have either been rescheduled again or officially canceled. Many of our favorite businesses are closed for good and others are barely hanging on. After putting in our time during the lockdown, coronavirus cases increased once they got the chance to...sheltering in place didn’t solve the issue, it only delayed it, while also creating a host of new problems. And being stuck at home with no a/c while it’s sweltering and burning outside, getting the smell of smoke from the fires...I’m just not having a good place right now.the constant smoke smell would drive me crazy.
perhaps springing for an AC unit would help? it cleans the air in addition to cooling.
Post by: hikanteki on September 05, 2020, 09:55:15 PM
Post by: chocolateshake on September 05, 2020, 11:10:36 PM
I should have results in 3-5 days so Tues-thursday.
I have my fingers crossed for you.
The landlord doesn%u2019t allow that, this is an old unit and we can%u2019t use anything as powerful as an AC.
Have you thought about an evaporative cooler? It's what they use in countries where people can't afford to pay for electricity to run AC. The big power use is a fan. Until about 10 years ago I didn't see them widely available here in the US but now they are common. They don't work as well as AC but they definitely work better than just a fan. I spent a lot of time sitting in front of one in India.
After putting in our time during the lockdown, coronavirus cases increased once they got the chance to...sheltering in place didn%u2019t solve the issue, it only delayed it, while also creating a host of new problems.
That's because we didn't do a real lockdown. Since the start, I've commented that where I live I didn't see much evidence of a lockdown. It seemed normal. Fauci is diplomatic about it and says something like we did a 50% lockdown. Other people use more colorful language to describe how bad it went.
The countries that have covid under control would still be in a lockdown, a real one, with the numbers we have. They wouldn't be pretending it's passed. In a country that did a real lockdown people were at home. Not just not at work, but at home with maybe 1 person in the house going to get supplies a week. No hanging out at the beach, no walks around the block. 2 of my neighbors have had fill up the street with cars house parties since this all started. Those countries enforced their lockdowns with multi-thousand dollar fines for anyone caught outside without good reason. Here in San Diego, our lockdown started with the Sheriff saying he wouldn't enforce it. Where they did a real lockdown, the highways would be empty. On a 8 lane highway there would maybe only be a single car seen occasionally. Here in San Diego, I didn't notice much reduction in traffic at all.
The countries that had a large outbreak and now have it under control did 4 key things. Lockdown, mask wearing, rapid turnaround testing(< 24 hours) and contact tracing. If as few as 4 cases are found, that city goes back into strict lockdown. Stricter than anything we've done here. Other than maybe mask wearing, we haven't done any of that. The countries that have done those things and have covid under control are pretty much back to normal. Instead we did a half measure at great economic cost for little gain. We don't have to worry about a second wave. We are still well within our first wave with no end in sight.
Post by: hikanteki on September 06, 2020, 12:02:10 AM
Have you thought about an evaporative cooler? It's what they use in countries where people can't afford to pay for electricity to run AC. The big power use is a fan. Until about 10 years ago I didn't see them widely available here in the US but now they are common. They don't work as well as AC but they definitely work better than just a fan. I spent a lot of time sitting in front of one in India.
Thanks for the rec, I’ll check into that! I’m open to anything that works better than what I currently have.
Quote
That's because we didn't do a real lockdown. Since the start, I've commented that where I live I didn't see much evidence of a lockdown. It seemed normal. Fauci is diplomatic about it and says something like we did a 50% lockdown. Other people use more colorful language to describe how bad it went.
The countries that have covid under control would still be in a lockdown, a real one, with the numbers we have. They wouldn't be pretending it's passed. In a country that did a real lockdown people were at home. Not just not at work, but at home with maybe 1 person in the house going to get supplies a week. No hanging out at the beach, no walks around the block. 2 of my neighbors have had fill up the street with cars house parties since this all started. Those countries enforced their lockdowns with multi-thousand dollar fines for anyone caught outside without good reason. Here in San Diego, our lockdown started with the Sheriff saying he wouldn't enforce it. Where they did a real lockdown, the highways would be empty. On a 8 lane highway there would maybe only be a single car seen occasionally. Here in San Diego, I didn't notice much reduction in traffic at all.
The countries that had a large outbreak and now have it under control did 4 key things. Lockdown, mask wearing, rapid turnaround testing(< 24 hours) and contact tracing. If as few as 4 cases are found, that city goes back into strict lockdown. Stricter than anything we've done here. Other than maybe mask wearing, we haven't done any of that. The countries that have done those things and have covid under control are pretty much back to normal. Instead we did a half measure at great economic cost for little gain. We don't have to worry about a second wave. We are still well within our first wave with no end in sight.
Yeah, exactly. While it seemed like instructions were followed better up here in the Bay Area at least for awhile (I certainly did my part and most others I know didn’t go out unless necessary either) this country didn’t do a full one and never was going to. Part of the reason why they sold the lockdowns to us was to give them time to build up the proper testing, contact tracing capacity, etc, and that didn’t happen and probably never will no matter how long we wait around at home. So now I think we just need to forget about keeping everybody put away and focus on mitigation. Wear masks, put resources into protecting the most vulnerable (nursing and retirement homes, meat packing plants) and just let the rest of the chips fall where they may.
Also, lockdowns weren’t necessary for every place that got it under control, such as Taiwan and South Korea. Some places had success with them but it was (and continues to be) a gamble. Europe did much stricter lockdowns than us and but I wouldn’t say they have it under control either. Peru tried to lock down long and hard...now they have the world’s highest death rate. New Zealand and Vietnam did complete lockdowns and it worked for 100 days but they both got Covid back, I guess we’ll see what they do this time.
Post by: chocolateshake on September 06, 2020, 01:38:37 AM
this country didn’t do a full one and never was going to.
At this point, I'm afraid you are right. There was a slim chance when this all started that we could have gotten our act together. Instead, we did the opposite. Now it's tribal. Some people now derive their identity from defying the lockdowns and refusing to wear masks. That's not going to change easily if ever.
Also, lockdowns weren’t necessary for every place that got it under control, such as Taiwan and South Korea.
I would also include Hong Kong in there. There were no official lockdowns because they weren't needed. The populations spontaneously lock themselves down. They didn't need to be told or cajoled. They acted before the government had a chance to. Especially in Hong Kong. They remembered sars so when sars 2 hit, they knew exactly what to do. Remember back then the democracy protests were in full swing. Those came to an abrupt end.
New Zealand and Vietnam did complete lockdowns and it worked for 100 days but they both got Covid back, I guess we’ll see what they do this time.
New Zealand was who I was referring to about a country that locked a city down again with only 4 new cases. When that happened a month ago after 102 days of no cases, NZ locked Auckland down again. It worked. Active cases in Auckland topped out at about 30 and have declined down to 23. There's another area of the country with a similar cluster but otherwise NZ is still covid free. No active cases. Note how small those numbers are. In the media here, we make a big deal about other countries having new outbreaks. The numbers involved are so small that it would be noise in the numbers here. We would be celebrating if we had numbers that low in similarly sized metro areas.
Post by: alyssa on September 06, 2020, 10:27:55 AM
I have my fingers crossed for you.thx
i'm not worried for myself but don't want to spread it. I'm just hoping it's 3 days not 5.
If i come back neg. i'm going to have to get another one since i might have been exposed on fri & was tested on Sat.
Post by: Chris on September 06, 2020, 12:34:11 PM
thx
i'm not worried for myself but don't want to spread it. I'm just hoping it's 3 days not 5.
If i come back neg. i'm going to have to get another one since i might have been exposed on fri & was tested on Sat.
Hope its negative.
Post by: Chris on September 06, 2020, 12:36:04 PM
The landlord doesn’t allow that, this is an old unit and we can’t use anything as powerful as an AC. Good thing the heating works, since we can’t use space heaters either (they trip the switch.) Not much we can do about the heat except for use fans. In other years, excessive heat hasn’t been as big of a deal since I could just spend all day at work then hit the gym, restaurant, and bubble tea shop til late. Not so much this year. We got an air purifier which helps somewhat with the smoke.
When we had the fires in SD in 2004, I got fans and pointed them out the windows which helps.
Showers helped to give the lungs a chance to clear out and take in less smoke.
Post by: chocolateshake on September 08, 2020, 12:22:23 PM
If i come back neg. i'm going to have to get another one since i might have been exposed on fri & was tested on Sat.
At least two tests is the standard because the tests are so unreliable. False positives are rare but false negatives are common. Per the CDC, with the numbers we have in San Diego, the test is about 49% accurate.
There have been numerous reports of people not testing positive even though they were clearly sick until the 8th or 9th test. One high profile example is Alyssa Milano. She was tested repeatedly and came back negative even though she was sick enough to be hospitalized. It wasn't until 4 months into it that she finally tested positive. Unfortunately she is also a long termer so is still having symptoms months after onset.
Post by: alyssa on September 08, 2020, 05:51:26 PM
At least two tests is the standard because the tests are so unreliable. False positives are rare but false negatives are common. Per the CDC, with the numbers we have in San Diego, the test is about 49% accurate.
There have been numerous reports of people not testing positive even though they were clearly sick until the 8th or 9th test. One high profile example is Alyssa Milano. She was tested repeatedly and came back negative even though she was sick enough to be hospitalized. It wasn't until 4 months into it that she finally tested positive. Unfortunately she is also a long termer so is still having symptoms months after onset.
the first came back neg but it was done less then 24 hrs after exposure. I retook the test today, 4 days after exposure. 3-5 days is the time frame.
oddly, the neg results came back within 24 hrs of taking the test. I'm guessing they're batching tests for fast results
Post by: chocolateshake on September 09, 2020, 12:26:49 AM
the first came back neg but it was done less then 24 hrs after exposure. I retook the test today, 4 days after exposure. 3-5 days is the time frame.
oddly, the neg results came back within 24 hrs of taking the test. I'm guessing they're batching tests for fast results
That's good to hear. I hope your other test comes back negative as well. I think the test load in San Diego is low thus the turn around is quick. I still haven't seen a single car at my local test site. Yesterday they were closed. I know people back east that are still waiting for their results after a week. They were told 7-10 days.
Post by: alyssa on September 09, 2020, 08:29:37 AM
That's good to hear. I hope your other test comes back negative as well. I think the test load in San Diego is low thus the turn around is quick. I still haven't seen a single car at my local test site. Yesterday they were closed. I know people back east that are still waiting for their results after a week. They were told 7-10 days.I'm preparing for a 10 day lockdown and frankly grateful for the pause.
Having been through an earlier version of covid, my odds are good for a positive immune response.
Yes, I agree tho, the testing sites have been fast and not crowded but I always go first thing in the morning.
While I got my results quick the person who I suspect has covid, that I was in contact with last Friday, has not gotten his results back yet. Today is day 4 after the test was taken.
If his results are positive, I will quarantine. We shared a meal and were not social distancing.
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Post by: alyssa on September 11, 2020, 09:37:25 AM
I must resume census work #grumble
Ikik, I AM glad I'm not going to be sick.
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Post by: chocolateshake on September 11, 2020, 11:12:31 AM
Post by: perc2100 on September 11, 2020, 06:06:42 PM
My second test was neg.YEA!!!! on the negative test
I must resume census work #grumble
Ikik, I AM glad I'm not going to be sick.
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:( in the census work, I guess (but I suspect it beats being sick)
Post by: alyssa on September 12, 2020, 08:14:39 AM
YEA!!!! on the negative testLOL
:( in the census work, I guess (but I suspect it beats being sick)
yeah it beats being sick
unless you're asymptomatic then it's ten days of getting my house back in order and studying
thanks everyone for caring #hugs
Post by: Andrew Costa Mesa on September 16, 2020, 11:18:12 PM
http://www.washingtonpost.com/health/cdc-director-says-coronavirus-vaccines-wont-be-widely-available-till-the-middle-of-next-year/2020/09/16/209fecf6-f827-11ea-be57-d00bb9bc632d_story.html
Post by: Miss Kitty on September 18, 2020, 12:01:19 PM
https://elemental.medium.com/the-most-likely-way-youll-get-infected-with-covid-19-30430384e5a5
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Post by: chocolateshake on October 15, 2020, 07:32:07 PM
I don't like people fondling my food so I always use self checkout whenever possible. Costco was the last big store I go to that didn't have self checkout. Now it does.
On another topic, I didn't know that my local schools were open again for in person class. But driving to Costco, I saw all the students there at the intersections waiting for the light to change. No social distancing whatsoever and very few of them wearing masks. It doesn't matter what the rules are in class if none of that is honored on the way to and from school.
Post by: SDcomics on October 19, 2020, 11:13:56 AM
I must resume census work #grumble
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbI1eJ_zAB8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbI1eJ_zAB8)
Post by: Miclpea on October 19, 2020, 11:40:41 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbI1eJ_zAB8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbI1eJ_zAB8)
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Post by: Miss Kitty on October 19, 2020, 09:36:24 PM
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Post by: chocolateshake on October 28, 2020, 07:51:10 PM
Sorry but you are not allowed to view spoiler contents.
Post by: alyssa on October 28, 2020, 08:53:16 PM
Post by: TardisMom on October 29, 2020, 10:48:00 AM
Sad post warning.Sorry but you are not allowed to view spoiler contents.
I'm so sorry.
Post by: chocolateshake on October 29, 2020, 12:35:27 PM
Post by: alyssa on October 29, 2020, 02:04:44 PM
Thanks for the condolences. It's weird. She's been in the hospital overnight before. Then the house felt so empty. Today, it feels like she's wandering around somewhere in the house. I kind of expect her to pop out at any moment. I know it won't happen. It just feels that way.I still find myself wanting pick up the phone to talk to my dad who died 20 years ago.
:'(
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Post by: chocolateshake on November 05, 2020, 11:36:13 PM
Take care.
Post by: alyssa on November 06, 2020, 11:33:18 AM
It's been lost amid the election coverage. The US broke 100,000 new covid cases in a day yesterday. Then today we broke 120,000. The winter spike has begun.i went in for another covid test. I figured it's best to make sure i didn't catch it while working the polls
Take care.
Post by: Miclpea on November 06, 2020, 01:00:56 PM
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Post by: alyssa on November 06, 2020, 01:24:36 PM
it's silly to not get tested LOL
it took 30 min's due to the morning rush. i expect the results tomorrow or sunday
Post by: mickeyjack3 on November 06, 2020, 01:45:16 PM
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Post by: chocolateshake on November 06, 2020, 05:55:32 PM
it's so easy to test these days
it's silly to not get tested LOL
it took 30 min's due to the morning rush. i expect the results tomorrow or sunday
Our health insurance company has offered to send us home test kits just in case. So that we would have them on hand if needed.
Post by: Transmute Jun on November 09, 2020, 09:08:01 AM
https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/pfizer-and-biontech-announce-vaccine-candidate-against
Airline and cruise line stocks are way up on this news.
Post by: Miclpea on November 09, 2020, 09:09:08 AM
Pfizer releases announcement of a vaccine with 90% efficacy.
https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/pfizer-and-biontech-announce-vaccine-candidate-against
Airline and cruise line stocks are way up on this news.
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Post by: alyssa on November 09, 2020, 09:44:10 AM
while i assume things will change over the next few month with the different management, i hope the ground work done by the military is still useful.
Post by: chocolateshake on November 09, 2020, 09:45:52 AM
Pfizer releases announcement of a vaccine with 90% efficacy.
https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/pfizer-and-biontech-announce-vaccine-candidate-against
Airline and cruise line stocks are way up on this news.
Not just airline and cruise stocks, all stocks other than the stay at home trade.
Now we'll have to see if enough people take it. Hopefully the other vaccine candidates will have similar results. Pfizer alone will not be able to supply enough doses for everyone.
Post by: perc2100 on November 09, 2020, 10:06:39 AM
Pfizer releases announcement of a vaccine with 90% efficacy.**Note About That Press Release**
https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/pfizer-and-biontech-announce-vaccine-candidate-against
Airline and cruise line stocks are way up on this news.
The press release comes directly from the private corporation (Pfizer), and _NOT_ from a peer-reviewed medical journal. That means there is no independent verification and a lot of 'what-ifs' in that press release.
I say that from a colleague of mine that works in a science/medical lab (that's also working on a vaccine).
What does that mean? I think "cautious optimism" is pertinent: this is great news, no doubt, but until there are further tests (for example, to verify long-term viability) and peer-reviewed results, we can't get _too_ excited.
But, yea: I'll absolutely take this good news!!
Post by: alyssa on November 09, 2020, 01:18:25 PM
But, yea: I'll absolutely take this good news!!
and barring evidence of neg. outcomes, i'll be in line to take the vaccine ;)
Post by: janray on November 09, 2020, 05:23:33 PM
Post by: chocolateshake on November 09, 2020, 07:01:23 PM
and barring evidence of neg. outcomes, i'll be in line to take the vaccine ;)
That's going to be pretty long line.
I think we can trust how Pfizer is portraying this. I tend to trust Pfizer to begin with but I doubt Pfizer even has the data yet. Pfizer is relaying what they've been told by the independent group running the clinical trials.
One thing does not add up for me. The CEO of Pfizer says that by summer of 2021 that anyone who wants a shot can get a shot. Unless he doesn't think many people will, I don't see how there will be enough vaccine for that unless he's also considering vaccines from other companies. Pfizer will be able to make 1.3 Billion does through 2021. That's 650 million people that can be vaccinated, 2 doses are required per person. That's Pfizer's production for the world. Even taking China out of equation, there are 6.4 billion people in the world. So Pfizer will make enough vaccine for 1 in 10 people. Right now, the US allocation from those 1.3 billion doses is 100 million. So the US will have enough Pfizer vaccine for 50 million people.
There should be other vaccines though. The Moderna vaccine is very similar to the Pfizer vaccine. So if the Pfizer vaccine works then so should Moderna's. Hopefully there will be enough different vaccines from different companies that there will be enough to vaccinate everyone who wants it.
Post by: perc2100 on November 10, 2020, 02:04:50 PM
That's going to be pretty long line.Fauci tells CNN the general public should be able to get the Pfizer Covid vaccine around late April. I'm wondering as well how the math works for that, but this is promising at the very least: #CautiouslyOptimistic
I think we can trust how Pfizer is portraying this. I tend to trust Pfizer to begin with but I doubt Pfizer even has the data yet. Pfizer is relaying what they've been told by the independent group running the clinical trials.
One thing does not add up for me. The CEO of Pfizer says that by summer of 2021 that anyone who wants a shot can get a shot. Unless he doesn't think many people will, I don't see how there will be enough vaccine for that unless he's also considering vaccines from other companies. Pfizer will be able to make 1.3 Billion does through 2021. That's 650 million people that can be vaccinated, 2 doses are required per person. That's Pfizer's production for the world. Even taking China out of equation, there are 6.4 billion people in the world. So Pfizer will make enough vaccine for 1 in 10 people. Right now, the US allocation from those 1.3 billion doses is 100 million. So the US will have enough Pfizer vaccine for 50 million people.
There should be other vaccines though. The Moderna vaccine is very similar to the Pfizer vaccine. So if the Pfizer vaccine works then so should Moderna's. Hopefully there will be enough different vaccines from different companies that there will be enough to vaccinate everyone who wants it.
Post by: chocolateshake on November 11, 2020, 12:23:09 PM
That 1.3 billion doses by the end of 2021 is a goal, not a guarantee. They said their hope is to ramp up production to be able to meet that goal. This is not an easy vaccine to make, store or transport. It won't be something that'll be waiting at every pharmacy like a flu vaccine. It has a short shelf life and will have to be drop shipped to planned vaccination events. Once it leaves the deep freeze at Pfizer it has 2 weeks of being in dry ice before expiring.
Post by: Miss Kitty on November 11, 2020, 01:54:13 PM
They say the biggest culpris are restaurants, cafes, bars, breweries, places where you are there for a prolonged time like places of worship, schools.
We went to grab food at a restaurant last night and a guy walks in to pick up an order. He doesn't have a mask, they nearly physically removed him. They were telling him to get the heck out and he was standing there dumbfounded, like he just woke up from a year long coma. She asked him where is his mask and he said he doesn't own one. WTH?! How is that possible? He left, totally confused. It was bizarre to witness.
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Post by: Chris on November 11, 2020, 07:05:41 PM
San Diego just went to purple tier, which means stores are now at 25% capacity, restaurants need to go mostly outside.
They say the biggest culpris are restaurants, cafes, bars, breweries, places where you are there for a prolonged time like places of worship, schools.
We went to grab food at a restaurant last night and a guy walks in to pick up an order. He doesn't have a mask, they nearly physically removed him. They were telling him to get the heck out and he was standing there dumbfounded, like he just woke up from a year long coma. She asked him where is his mask and he said he doesn't own one. WTH?! How is that possible? He left, totally confused. It was bizarre to witness.
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I keep thinking of the #1 rule of zombie apocalypse: Immediate, honest self-identification when people get bit.
Based on covid, the zombie apocalypse is going to be a disaster.
Post by: chocolateshake on November 12, 2020, 12:10:04 PM
What have other people that needed smog tests done?
Post by: Transmute Jun on November 12, 2020, 12:20:29 PM
What have other people that needed smog tests done?
I got a smog check last April. It's like anywhere else: you make an appointment, only one person at a time, everyone wears masks and stays distant. It's not really a big deal.
Post by: chocolateshake on November 12, 2020, 03:18:30 PM
Post by: alyssa on November 12, 2020, 05:09:22 PM
I keep thinking of the #1 rule of zombie apocalypse: Immediate, honest self-identification when people get bit.we have absolutely proved that what we thought were dumb disease apocalyptic movie cliches, were in reality, correct. HomoSapians are doomed
Based on covid, the zombie apocalypse is going to be a disaster.
Post by: YouThinkMeMad on November 13, 2020, 05:01:36 AM
If I remember right, there are a few of us that delayed smog testing are cars due to the pandemic. I still haven't smogged my car that I paid the registration for in the spring. It hasn't been a problem since I have another car. But now that car is due for a smog test. So now I will have to decide whether to go ahead with a smog test or sit it out again. In the spring, the DMV said that it was OK for people to pay now and then wait until covid subsides before getting a smog test. That they were asking law enforcement not to enforce expired tags. From what I can tell, that is still the DMV position. Of course, it's just a request to law enforcement since they have no sway over them. Anecdotally at least, law enforcement seems to be following along and has not been ticketing expired tags. Why didn't DMV just suspend the smog test requirement for the duration of the pandemic?
What have other people that needed smog tests done?
We have self serve Emissions tests here now. I was extended until March but I'll do self serve when it's time.
Post by: chocolateshake on November 13, 2020, 10:15:32 AM
On another topic, it's only 9 days since the US broke 100,000 new covid cases a day. Today we broke 150,000. The trend is not our friend.
Post by: Chris on November 13, 2020, 11:38:07 AM
we have absolutely proved that what we thought were dumb disease apocalyptic movie cliches, were in reality, correct. HomoSapians are doomed
The first time I saw this was the Walking Dead escape at comic con where 70% of the people I knew who got infected didn't report it.
But that was a game and this is the really real world.
Post by: mickeyjack3 on November 13, 2020, 11:45:44 AM
The first time I saw this was the Walking Dead escape at comic con where 70% of the people I knew who got infected didn't report it.I got infected within 20 ft. of the finish. I opted to eat a bullet.
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Post by: chocolateshake on November 15, 2020, 01:20:47 AM
Moderna released preliminary results of it's vaccine, 94.5% effective. It has a big advantage over the Pfizer vaccine in that it can last up to 30 days in the refrigerator. It'll be easier to distribute and administer.
Post by: VeggieKitten on November 18, 2020, 12:12:21 AM
Except the smog test tech will have to examine the car. Including sitting in the seat, handling the steering wheel and other drive controls. So there would be transference from everyone that person tested that day. Infection from surfaces has been downplayed in the US. In NZ they traced the source of community infection to a trash can lid. It's common in the rest of the world to see people in suits going around and spraying everything down both inside and outside. I guess I could use the ozone generator on the car when I got home.I haven’t had to get a smog test during the pandemic yet. But if I had to and was concerned about it, I might get disposable or really cheap covers for the car seat and steering wheel and throw them out right after, keep the windows down during the test, Lysol wipe everything right afterward (allowing to air dry), drive home with windows down and mask on (even possibly using other throwaway set of seat and steering wheel covers), and then, if possible, I wouldn’t drive the car again for several days.
Post by: alyssa on November 18, 2020, 06:22:16 AM
I feel lucky to be in San Diego. The positivity rate for covid is 4%. In South Dakota it's 56%.Pfizer released the first set of complete results from a late-stage vaccine trial
Moderna released preliminary results of it's vaccine, 94.5% effective. It has a big advantage over the Pfizer vaccine in that it can last up to 30 days in the refrigerator. It'll be easier to distribute and administer.
https://nyti.ms/36MItUn
Post by: chocolateshake on November 18, 2020, 12:47:38 PM
I wonder if and how well these vaccines work against the common cold. Coronaviruses all share that spike protein which is the target of these vaccines. It's already known that having a common cold offers some immunity against covid for a few months. That would be a silver lining to the covid pandemic. If there was finally a cure for the common cold.
Post by: Miss Kitty on November 19, 2020, 07:21:55 PM
I'm embarrassed to say I know someone that said "the man can't keep me down". I'm like oh that's a joke. Nope. He said bars will stay open, what are they gonna do? I'm like "well, make sure your will is up to date".
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Post by: chocolateshake on November 20, 2020, 01:50:48 AM
It's a contrast of two Americas where California and New York are locking down again with 3-4% positivity rates. It took positivity rates of 50% or higher in other states to trigger restrictions. A very concerning thing at today's press conference is that the hospitalization rate in CA is 12%. With 10,000 new cases a day it doesn't take many days for that to add up.
Post by: perc2100 on November 20, 2020, 10:27:34 AM
Quote
The process could start very soon. The first COVID-19 vaccine is anticipated to be authorized by the Food and Drug Administration within the next month, with distribution to start in no more than 24 hours to every state in the union. A second vaccine could be authorized two weeks later. Enough vaccine for 20 million people is expected to be available in December, with more coming in 2021.
As a teacher I'd be in the Phase 2 out of 4, which feels right (those who need it more get it first; if we're pushing to return kids to schools then teachers should have priority after those that need it the most). I don't know what a realistic timeframe is for dispersal of the vaccine from phase-to-phase, but it seems like we're ramping up to start the process, and that's exciting
Post by: perc2100 on November 20, 2020, 10:37:09 AM
I listened to the press conference on the way to my weekly Walmart drive up supply run. A reporter asked what good it would do since it's only at night. The reply was pretty clear. It's a warning. If the trend doesn't change then the full lockdown will be back.Yeah, this order is basically a "knock this BS off or I'm going to get serious." Doesn't effect most (people who hang in bars fairly late, people who get the munchies and make 11pm runs to Taco Bell, etc), but almost certainly meant as a warning that if things don't improve harsher restrictions will be coming down.
It's a contrast of two Americas where California and New York are locking down again with 3-4% positivity rates. It took positivity rates of 50% or higher in other states to trigger restrictions. A very concerning thing at today's press conference is that the hospitalization rate in CA is 12%. With 10,000 new cases a day it doesn't take many days for that to add up.
Post by: chocolateshake on November 21, 2020, 04:13:57 PM
Covid is local. San Diego county has a very cool interactive map showing cases and rates per neighborhood. There are the good neighborhoods, there are the bad ones. Clicking around the lowest I found was 1% and the highest was 8%. That matches what I see when I'm in those neighborhoods. Mask wearing compliance varies a lot.
Post by: Miss Kitty on November 21, 2020, 07:30:03 PM
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Post by: chocolateshake on November 22, 2020, 11:42:20 PM
Between all these vaccines, there may be enough for everyone next year. There are a lot being trialed right now.
Where is the map? I would love to see!
https://sdcounty.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/e09887e8e65d4fda847aa04c480dc73f
Post by: perc2100 on December 02, 2020, 09:07:57 AM
He says,
Quote
"We've got to make sure that people get vaccinated. So if 75-85 percent of the people in the country get vaccinated as the vaccine becomes available, and the general public, not speaking of the people of the highest priority who have underlying conditions - the young men and women," he explained.
"If they get vaccinated through April, May and June, and really do a full-court press to get everybody vaccinated, you can get back to normal or at least approaching close to normal, as you get into the late summer and early fall."
This is incredibly exciting news, both for the country in general and potentially for SDCCI as well. If Dr. Fauci's timeline is doable (and that will be on both the current Trump Administration as well as incoming Biden Administration to role-out the vaccine process nationally), that could mean a significant amount of us vaccinated by mid-July making SDCCI a much more viable proposition for all involved. I'm a musician/music teacher, not a scientist, so I honestly don't know if this is more 'best-case-scenario' type of thinking or how realistic this is, but I do know the CA Governor announced yesterday that the state was getting hundreds of thousands of vaccines in the next few weeks to start distributing to 'Phase 1' folks (front-line + hospital workers, way high-risk folks, nursing home workers, etc) so it feels like a vaccine is starting to get rolled out before Christmas!
After nine months of gloom, as well as current events that are horrendous and depressing (our country experience MASSIVE spikes), this light-at-the-end-of-the-tunnel news is really cause of celebration, I think. My 'hopeful optimism' is definitely growing!
Post by: sessionka on December 02, 2020, 09:55:09 AM
Check out this video of Dr. Fauci from either today or yesterday: https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/coronavirus/watch-live-dr-anthony-fauci-joins-nbc-new-york-to-discuss-chances-of-another-stay-at-home-order-covid-surge/2755008/
He says,
This is incredibly exciting news, both for the country in general and potentially for SDCCI as well. If Dr. Fauci's timeline is doable (and that will be on both the current Trump Administration as well as incoming Biden Administration to role-out the vaccine process nationally), that could mean a significant amount of us vaccinated by mid-July making SDCCI a much more viable proposition for all involved. I'm a musician/music teacher, not a scientist, so I honestly don't know if this is more 'best-case-scenario' type of thinking or how realistic this is, but I do know the CA Governor announced yesterday that the state was getting hundreds of thousands of vaccines in the next few weeks to start distributing to 'Phase 1' folks (front-line + hospital workers, way high-risk folks, nursing home workers, etc) so it feels like a vaccine is starting to get rolled out before Christmas!
After nine months of gloom, as well as current events that are horrendous and depressing (our country experience MASSIVE spikes), this light-at-the-end-of-the-tunnel news is really cause of celebration, I think. My 'hopeful optimism' is definitely growing!
The timeline is ENTIRELY realistic. I actually think it can be done sooner.
Post by: mark on December 02, 2020, 10:07:03 AM
The other, and please note this is a total hunch on one of my friends part, is around the different temperature requirements for the pfizer and moderna vaccines. His suspicion is that the pfizer vaccine might actually work being stored at a higher temp but that the temperature is part of the testing process and that they went the safer route by using a colder temp while the (much much smaller company) moderna took a cheekier approach and tested at the higher temp.
Time will tell on the hunch, but I found the first thing interesting and welcome news.
Post by: chocolateshake on December 02, 2020, 10:20:29 AM
The timeline is ENTIRELY realistic. I actually think it can be done sooner.
The limiter is the availability of vaccine. When they make those statements that vaccines will be widely available by April it's with the qualifier "to everyone who wants one". Unfortunately that's only 60% of the population right now. We need much higher compliance to get back to normal.
The bad news is that the Oxford vaccine has been set back and is going to undergo another trial. The good news is there are over 20 other ones on the horizon.
The other, and please note this is a total hunch on one of my friends part, is around the different temperature requirements for the pfizer and moderna vaccines. His suspicion is that the pfizer vaccine might actually work being stored at a higher temp but that the temperature is part of the testing process and that they went the safer route by using a colder temp while the (much much smaller company) moderna took a cheekier approach and tested at the higher temp.
Time will tell on the hunch, but I found the first thing interesting and welcome news.
I suspect that the BioNTech vaccine can be stored at the same temperature as Moderna's. They are pretty much the same vaccine. Pfizer has said they are evaluating it at higher temperatures.
The vaccine the world really needs is the Oxford one. Easy to make, easy to store and cheap. The problem is that doubts have been raised about it's trial results so they will be conducting another trial.
Post by: perc2100 on December 03, 2020, 10:17:20 AM
Spoiler: much deeper than any Comic-Con line I’ve ever waited in 😬
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/12/03/opinion/covid-19-vaccine-timeline.html
Post by: TardisMom on December 03, 2020, 11:03:39 AM
Interesting piece in The NY Times today: a guesstimate of where you'd be in line for the vaccine.
Spoiler: much deeper than any Comic-Con line I’ve ever waited in 😬
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/12/03/opinion/covid-19-vaccine-timeline.html
Very cool! Though I don't much like where I am in the line...
Post by: marcia29 on December 03, 2020, 11:04:10 AM
Interesting piece in The NY Times today: a guesstimate of where you'd be in line for the vaccine.
Spoiler: much deeper than any Comic-Con line I’ve ever waited in 😬
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/12/03/opinion/covid-19-vaccine-timeline.html
Well darn...looks like I would need to pay for access to this little gem. Oh well, someone will come up with this, for free...I hope. I know it is just a guess, anyway. :(
Post by: sessionka on December 03, 2020, 11:45:46 AM
Very cool! Though I don't much like where I am in the line...
hmmm...
I'm surprised I'm in front of teachers.
Anyway as a healthy individual, I'm more than willing to let anyone on the forum get in front of me. :)
Post by: perc2100 on December 03, 2020, 11:49:54 AM
Well darn...looks like I would need to pay for access to this little gem. Oh well, someone will come up with this, for free...I hope. I know it is just a guess, anyway. :(Lame; seems like it'd be free (though I have a free subscription as a teacher).
FWIW the only info necessary is:
* age
* county you live in
* do you work one of these jobs: Health care worker; Essential worker; First responder; Teacher; None of these
* y/n if you are considered high risk
If you want to PM me those answers I can plug it in for you
These are just 'guesstimates' based on what different states have released as far as how many vaccines they'll be receiving initially, stats reported county-wide regarding jobs, etc.
This is the info I received as a mid-40's teacher in San Diego w/no high risk issues
Quote
Based on your risk profile, we believe you’re in line behind 135.7 million people across the United States.
When it comes to California, we think you’re behind 14.3 million others who are at higher risk in your state.
And in San Diego County, you’re behind 1.1 million others.
If the line in California was represented by about 100 people, this is where you’d be standing:
Same states if I were high risk:
Quote
Based on your risk profile, we believe you’re in line behind 23.0 million people across the United States.(they have a cute graphic to represent the lines of people in front of me)
When it comes to California, we think you’re behind 2.6 million others who are at higher risk in your state.
And in San Diego County, you’re behind 210,600 others.
If the line in California was represented by about 100 people, this is where you’d be standing
The article ends with:
Quote
1.7M healthcare workers642k in nursing homes201k first responders9.8M with health risksYou868k other elderly1.1M essential workers686k teachers98k homeless146k prisoners5.5M young adults8.9M children1.4M other essential workers8.2M others
How quickly we’ll move through this line is still an open question. While millions of health care workers in the country could be vaccinated this month, the most prominent vaccine candidates require an ultracold distribution chain that can’t yet reach every American. States also need to procure even more personal protective equipment and set up socially distanced mass-vaccination sites amid a pandemic that could slow everything down.
“It’s incredible that we have vaccines with high levels of initial efficacy in such a short period of time,” said Dr. Sema Sgaier, a co-founder and the executive director of the Surgo Foundation.
“But the vaccine is not going to be a silver bullet for a while,” she added.
The order outlined above is one possibility, combining proposals by the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention alongside a fuller proposal by the National Academies of Sciences, Engineering and Medicine. The final order is not yet determined and depends on successful vaccines being adequately tested for every group. States could still set their priorities, but they will most likely follow the final C.D.C. recommendations.
Post by: perc2100 on December 03, 2020, 11:51:22 AM
hmmm...
I'm surprised I'm in front of teachers.
Anyway as a healthy individual, I'm more than willing to let anyone on the forum get in front of me. :)
My wife who's currently a work-from-home education Admin is about 110 million 'in front of' me because of her 'high risk' situation. Heck, I might be able to slide into that category depending on how much weight I've put on during the pandemic (obesity counts!). Honestly, I have zero problems letting those in high-risk essential jobs, those whose health is worse than mine (which is most), elderly, etc. get a vaccine before me. IDK how long I'll be teaching remotely (at least until mid-January), and teaching HS I feel relatively OK about being able to socially distance myself from students & other faculty if/when the bulk of students return to campus/my classroom (we technically have two large rooms as part of the performing arts department). We've done some small-group playing outside over the last month and a half (voluntarily, of course) and I don't foresee us playing indoors at any point this school year: meaning I think I can manage my classrooms relatively safely.
Post by: chocolateshake on December 03, 2020, 12:29:02 PM
Here in San Diego, one of the largest hospital groups said yesterday that their covid hospitalizations are up 600% in a month. We are on self imposed lockdown again. It's not like we really ever let up that much but we are back into April-May lockdown mode. I took the last couple of weeks to stock up on supplies. Getting a smog test for the car was my last outing a few days ago. I don't plan on leaving the house at all for at least a month. Longer if necessary.
Post by: mickeyjack3 on December 03, 2020, 12:42:33 PM
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Post by: chocolateshake on December 03, 2020, 12:54:35 PM
Well darn...looks like I would need to pay for access to this little gem. Oh well, someone will come up with this, for free...I hope. I know it is just a guess, anyway. :(
You don't need to pay to access it. That banner on the bottom is there if you want to access the paid areas of the NYT. This calculator is free. Ignore that banner.
I don't put much faith into this calculator. Age is a big risk factor for severe illness. This calculator places children and young adults ahead in line for the vaccine over the middle aged. That doesn't make sense. Also, the trails for the vaccines didn't include teens or younger children. Those trials just started. So approval for use in those age groups will come later. There isn't any criteria for them to be considered right now. So how can this calculator factor in those age groups?
Post by: perc2100 on December 03, 2020, 02:05:03 PM
People should keep on the ball in terms of keeping safe. With pandemic fatigue and the good news about vaccines, it's easy enough to let up thinking it's over. This won't be over for at least months. The numbers public health officials were using to try to scare us into compliance are here. We are basically at 200,000 new cases a day and 3,000 deaths a day. The Thanksgiving spike isn't even reflected in those numbers yet. This is no time to ease up on precautions.ABSOLUTELY!
Here in San Diego, one of the largest hospital groups said yesterday that their covid hospitalizations are up 600% in a month. We are on self imposed lockdown again. It's not like we really ever let up that much but we are back into April-May lockdown mode. I took the last couple of weeks to stock up on supplies. Getting a smog test for the car was my last outing a few days ago. I don't plan on leaving the house at all for at least a month. Longer if necessary.
Smogging my car (in San Diego) over the summer is what I'm confident got me sick in the first place over the summer. I don't think it was COVID, as I never had a fever or cough, but I was violently ill and couldn't hold food/water down for 3+ days and was miserable (day 1 was July 4th). I don't think I've been in a grocery store since early summer, and I've been fortunate enough to get all my groceries delivered for the most part. The only places I've been in-person are work (I'm a HS teacher, teaching remotely, but I go into my classrooms as I teach music and I'm certain my condo neighbors would not want to hear me drumming starting at 8am every day :P ) and fairly regular visits to our pharmacy for prescription meds. I haven't eaten restaurant food since early March, no haircut since mid-February, no movies in theaters since mid-March: I'm fatigued, for sure, but if option B is "get COVID" I'll take fatigue every time.
Selfishly thinking about SDCC, won’t everything that pertains to the event come down to what is happening in California? I mean the rest of the country can have things under control (or not), but won’t it be whether the powers that be (the Governor?) deems it safe for a gathering as large as ours? Asking for 120,000 friends.Definitely, Mickeyjack3. Currently restrictions on large gatherings in CA are very intense, with no amusement parks allowed open to the public until the pandemic is well under control (which we haven't seen since everything closed in March). In fact, our CA Governor just announced today we're going into a more restrictive general shut-down: nail & hair salons closing, restaurants have to go take-out only again, heavy restrictions on customer numbers in 'essential' businesses, etc. He stressed that the vaccine is on its way, and will start going out by Christmas (in pretty limited-sounding numbers initially). It's hard to say what will happen in the summer, especially with COVID numbers spring WITHOUT the Thanksgiving spike in the calculations yet + hospital ICUs filling up at/near capacity. But I think post-New Year's, once the Xmas numbers spike and then start calming down, and once the vaccine starts going in wider distribution, we'll hopefully have a clearer picture of when things can return to normal. National experts like Dr. Fauci have estimated 'mid/late-summer we should be returning to relative normal' which COULD see SDCCI as the first major event OK'ed in CA.
Hard to say now, but I'm oddly optimistic about spring/summer, even with doom & gloom current news
Post by: perc2100 on December 03, 2020, 04:50:58 PM
Quote
When Pfizer Inc. said last month it expects to ship half the Covid-19 vaccines it had originally planned for this year, the decision highlighted the challenges drug makers face in rapidly building supply chains to meet the high demand.
“Scaling up the raw material supply chain took longer than expected,” a company spokeswoman said. “And it’s important to highlight that the outcome of the clinical trial was somewhat later than the initial projection.”
Pfizer and Germany-based partner BioNTech SE had hoped to roll out 100 million vaccines world-wide by the end of this year, a plan that has now been reduced to 50 million.
Pfizer still expects to roll out more than a billion doses in 2021 as originally planned.
Post by: mickeyjack3 on December 03, 2020, 05:33:06 PM
Post by: perc2100 on December 03, 2020, 05:45:37 PM
It’s my understanding that Pfizer knew this months ago. It changes nothing in terms of what they announced about the number of doses they intend to provide and when. At worst, aren’t they just saying we hoped to produce even more, but because of an abundance of caution this is what we decided weeks ago we would do? It’s not really a change from the previously announced plan. It makes for a great headline for news outlets though and unnecessarily makes people who are in dire need of hope more anxious, thinking that the number of doses were going to be cut in half. To be clear, I’m not finding fault with you perc2100 but with the way some news organizations reported it.You're right; I was thinking they had originally announced the 100 million and then had to announce only half that now. I went back and re-read their initial release a month and change ago and it does indeed say they'll ship the 50 million. This does seem like at best an article discussing initial plans, and at worst a poorly-written article that should at least clarify that this changes absolutely nothing about their announced plans.
Thanks for pointing this out and bringing more clarity to an article than professional news writers/reporters did!!
Post by: mickeyjack3 on December 03, 2020, 05:58:53 PM
You're right; I was thinking they had originally announced the 100 million and then had to announce only half that now. I went back and re-read their initial release a month and change ago and it does indeed say they'll ship the 50 million. This does seem like at best an article discussing initial plans, and at worst a poorly-written article that should at least clarify that this changes absolutely nothing about their announced plans.
Thanks for pointing this out and bringing more clarity to an article than professional news writers/reporters did!!
Yes, it's easily misconstrued, and many people were/are dismayed. It even made the stock market hiccup a little, but it still stayed, in the end, positive for the most part. More than one news organization didn't make it clear. I'm not usually a media basher, but I think this comes off as irresponsible headline-grabbing.
Post by: chocolateshake on December 04, 2020, 12:59:30 PM
It's my understanding that Pfizer knew this months ago. It changes nothing in terms of what they announced about the number of doses they intend to provide and when. At worst, aren't they just saying we hoped to produce even more, but because of an abundance of caution this is what we decided weeks ago we would do? It's not really a change from the previously announced plan. It makes for a great headline for news outlets though and unnecessarily makes people who are in dire need of hope more anxious, thinking that the number of doses were going to be cut in half. To be clear, I'm not finding fault with you perc2100 but with the way some news organizations reported it.
It's more complicated than that. The plan until a month ago was to supply 100 million doses by the end of the year. That's the agreement they have with the US government. They came out a month ago and said that would be reduced to 50 million doses but they wouldn't say why. That was the point of yesterday's WSJ article, the reason why. They can't get the materials to produce the 100 million doses.
So there is a shortfall of 50 million doses from Pfizer that the government was counting on. But that has been known for a month. The government ordered doses from many vaccine makers with no proof that it would work. The reasoning is that it's better to have the doses ready to go if the vaccines do work than have to wait. Worst case, we only waste money and not lives. So the government purchased 100 million doses from Pfizer for delivery by the end of the year. Pfizer will only be able to deliver half of that. I'm sure they did everything they could. They are motivated if by nothing else then they will not be paid until they deliver all 100 million doses.
Also when looking at the numbers, that's their production for the entire world ex China, not just the US. Some of those doses have already been delivered to the UK for vaccinations next week.
The question is whether this was a startup issue that has been resolved or whether it will be a continuing constraint. Moderna's vaccine is basically the same so I assume they will be drawing the same materials. China is also producing the BioNTech vaccine so they will be drawing the same materials. Is there enough to go around?
Post by: mickeyjack3 on December 04, 2020, 04:55:13 PM
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Post by: chocolateshake on December 05, 2020, 10:48:59 AM
The CDC has been telling states how much vaccine to expect. It's well short of expectations. I think Maine was expecting 30,000 or so doses. They will be getting about 12,000. California was hoping for 2,000,000 doses. We will be getting about 400,000.
There's also the matter of the cost to administer the vaccine. The impression the administration is giving off is that Operation Warp Speed has it all taken care of. The states say otherwise. It's going to cost states billions to administer the vaccine. Money some states don't have.
I was thinking I would call a house doc to come vaccinate my parents at home. Running the gauntlet of the unmasked to get vaccinated doesn't seem like a good idea. It would be ironic to get infected while getting vaccinated. So I was thinking house call until I watched the news last night. Drive through vaccinations. It was obvious. Some hospitals are already running drills to work out the procedures for drive through vaccination.
Southern California is expected to go back into full lockdown by Sunday night/Monday morning. San Francisco already has.
Post by: NCDS on December 05, 2020, 02:10:46 PM
Post by: janray on December 06, 2020, 09:09:05 AM
I was hoping for a drive through option for the coronavirus vaccination but I am unclear how many locations there will be that have the vaccine.
If locations are limited, a drive through might not be feasible.
Post by: chocolateshake on December 08, 2020, 12:05:43 PM
Post by: perc2100 on December 08, 2020, 05:02:30 PM
I'm getting emergency alerts on all my phones from the state telling me the situation is severe, stay home.Ditto; I live in San Diego and assume it's a reminder since the SoCA region went into a stricter 'shut-down' midnight Monday :(
It doesn't change much for me (I'm a teacher teaching virtually, haven't gotten a haircut since mid-February, and don't go anywhere other than my classroom since mid-March)
Post by: chocolateshake on December 09, 2020, 02:28:14 PM
Post by: alyssa on December 13, 2020, 08:07:56 AM
first load of vaccines leaving pfizer
:) :D
Post by: marcia29 on December 13, 2020, 08:43:38 AM
...Oh, I might have actually said that out loud, too. ::)
Post by: alyssa on December 13, 2020, 10:12:00 AM
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Post by: mark on December 13, 2020, 11:41:23 AM
Watching those massive trucks depart, in my head I heard Peter Cullen's masterful voice command...."Vaccine trucks....rollout!"
...Oh, I might have actually said that out loud, too. ::)
I'm still on the Eeyore side of the Cullen spectrum but slowly moving closer to Optimus.
There's a sad thing I've been following, well following isn't the right word. I have an email that I try to reserve for a few important things, my wife has it, our kids have it, CCI has it, and our accountant. Not even my mom has it. The problem is that other people with similar names keep using it accidentally. So I will get an email when some bozo in Australia goes to his favorite strip club , some old man in England orders stuff for his dog, a lady in Little Rock orders from Domino's, and so on. For the most part I can filter these out but there is one group in particular that keeps popping up, a bible study group in the midwest where I somehow got on everyone's email lists. The people in this group are in their 70s-80s and when covid hit you could tell that many of them weren't taking it very seriously and kept trying to meet up in person. Even when the place they had started using to meet was no longer available (because it was being used to accommodate covid patient overflow) they found other places. Now of course it got into their group and it's been devastating, this is a group of maybe 20 people and 3 of them have died in the last 2 weeks, in 2 cases without any way for their families to say goodbye.
These aren't people I know, or am ever likely to meet, but it's been really sad.
Post by: Andrew Costa Mesa on December 13, 2020, 06:52:45 PM
Post by: perc2100 on December 14, 2020, 11:16:36 AM
The beginning of the end gameI have a former student who's an ICU nurse dealing with COVID since March, and she was told by her supervisors that she'll likely get the first vaccine dose this week. In San Diego the first batch will be enough to cover about 70% of front-line healthcare workers, which is better than I originally thought (CA in general will get enough in the first Pfizer batch to cover a bit less than 50% of its front-line healthcare workers).
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It's nice to get this bit of good news mixed with the absolutely horrid news of record-setting COVID infection & death spikes! Kind of a nice "keep your eyes on the endgame, folks: stay safe now, mask up & social distance over the Holiday season, keep healthy because help is on the way!"
Post by: Andrew Costa Mesa on December 14, 2020, 11:07:33 PM
http://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/14/nyregion/us-covid-vaccine-first-sandra-lindsay.html?action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage
Post by: alyssa on December 15, 2020, 05:31:28 AM
I have a former student who's an ICU nurse dealing with COVID since March, and she was told by her supervisors that she'll likely get the first vaccine dose this week. In San Diego the first batch will be enough to cover about 70% of front-line healthcare workers, which is better than I originally thought (CA in general will get enough in the first Pfizer batch to cover a bit less than 50% of its front-line healthcare workers).
It's nice to get this bit of good news mixed with the absolutely horrid news of record-setting COVID infection & death spikes! Kind of a nice "keep your eyes on the endgame, folks: stay safe now, mask up & social distance over the Holiday season, keep healthy because help is on the way!"
it was nice seeing the first shots being given. But it was even better seeing them given to the front-line people **first** !!
Post by: sessionka on December 15, 2020, 09:15:22 AM
UCLA epidemiologist Dr. Timothy Brewer told the Los Angeles Times he anticipates herd immunity consisting of 60%-70% of the U.S. population by mid-to-late 2021. He is also optimistic next year’s Thanksgiving and Christmas will be far better than this year’s.
And I'm going to add next years Comic Con...
I will continue to be optimistic. :) :)
Post by: chocolateshake on December 15, 2020, 11:33:57 AM
Post by: Andrew Costa Mesa on December 15, 2020, 01:03:24 PM
Post by: Miclpea on December 15, 2020, 01:10:28 PM
https://www.iheart.com/content/2020-12-15-new-strain-of-coronavirus-infects-over-1000-people-in-the-united-kingdom/?mid=533071&rid=46244587&sc=email&pname=newsletter&cid=NATIONAL&keyid=National%20iHeart%20Daily%20NewsTalk&campid=headline3
Post by: chocolateshake on December 15, 2020, 02:50:19 PM
A few days ago, Dr. Anthony Fauci told CNN’s Chris Cuomo that if enough Americans take the vaccine, the U.S. could see some return to normalcy between Summer and Fall of 2021.
He also says that people should still wear masks and socially distance even after getting vaccinated. He's factoring all that into his estimate. He's repeatedly said that the criteria for some return to normalcy is a low level of virus in the community, not how many people are vaccinated. Vaccinations are just another tool in addition to masks and social distancing to get there.
Quote
"I said a combination of an effective vaccine and adherence to certain public-health principles will get us to the point where we want to be, by the end of 2021," Fauci said during a lunchtime call over pizza on Wednesday. "I never said just the vaccine. You never should abandon the public-health measures."
https://www.businessinsider.com/fauci-the-vaccine-will-not-be-enough-to-stop-coronavirus-2020-9?op=1
Post by: Andrew Costa Mesa on December 15, 2020, 06:29:40 PM
“The Trump administration is negotiating a deal to use its power to free up supplies of raw materials to help Pfizer produce tens of millions of additional doses of its Covid-19 vaccine for Americans in the first half of next year, people familiar with the situation said.
“Should an agreement be struck, it could at least partially remedy a looming shortage that the administration itself arguably helped create by not pre-ordering more doses of the vaccine Pfizer developed with its German partner, BioNTech. Pfizer agreed this summer to provide the United States with 100 million doses by the end of March, enough to inoculate 50 million people since its vaccine requires two shots.
“In recent days, however, Pfizer has indicated that it would be able to manufacture more doses if the administration orders the company’s suppliers to prioritize its purchase requests. The two sides are now negotiating a contract under which Pfizer would provide tens of millions more doses between April and the end of June.
“Moderna, a small Massachusetts-based firm that developed a similar vaccine, agreed last summer to provide the United States with 100 million doses by the end of March. It has now pledged to sell another 100 million doses by the end of June.”
Post by: Andrew Costa Mesa on December 15, 2020, 06:38:01 PM
He also says that people should still wear masks and socially distance even after getting vaccinated. He's factoring all that into his estimate. He's repeatedly said that the criteria for some return to normalcy is a low level of virus in the community, not how many people are vaccinated. Vaccinations are just another tool in addition to masks and social distancing to get there.
https://www.businessinsider.com/fauci-the-vaccine-will-not-be-enough-to-stop-coronavirus-2020-9?op=1
Even before I discovered what he said, I was already resigned to wearing a mask and social distancing at least until the end of 2021.
Post by: chocolateshake on December 16, 2020, 07:18:54 PM
We really need it. Here in California cases have spiked 500% in the last month. I thought it was off the hook when we broke 10,000 new cases a day. A month later, we are over 50,000 cases a day.
Post by: TardisMom on December 17, 2020, 07:54:22 AM
Good news on the Pfizer vaccine availability today. It seems that Pfizer was being liberal with how much vaccine they put in each bottle. There is supposed to be 5 doses but people have been finding that there's enough left for 1-2 more doses per vial. That's 20-40% more supply. The FDA says it's OK to use the leftovers.
We really need it. Here in California cases have spiked 500% in the last month. I thought it was off the hook when we broke 10,000 new cases a day. A month later, we are over 50,000 cases a day.
This is really great news!!
Here is AZ we have the highest rate of spread in the nation, a Rt of 1.19. Which makes lots of sense since our governor is doing nothing and we have restaurants open. Sigh.
Post by: Transmute Jun on December 17, 2020, 09:46:09 AM
This is really great news!!
Here is AZ we have the highest rate of spread in the nation, a Rt of 1.19. Which makes lots of sense since our governor is doing nothing and we have restaurants open. Sigh.
According to this site,
https://rt.live/
as of this morning (Dec. 17) Arizona is 1.15 and California is 1.16. The worst in the nation right now is apparently Maine with 1.23.
Of course, it can differ from county to county.
The reality is that it's difficult to tell from this kind of data who is shut down and who isn't. The virus transmits incredibly easily. We are all going to get it (vaccines aside). The question is only how fast it transmits and whether or not the hospitals can deal with it.
Post by: chocolateshake on December 17, 2020, 10:05:19 AM
I wonder if Pfizer is just going to put less vaccine in each vial with all the reports that they've been putting in too much. So then they will have another 100 million doses to sell.
In bad vaccine news, the distribution of the vaccine has gone awry. Some states are saying that the CDC has told them to expect up to 40% less vaccine than they were promised. This shouldn't be confused with the existing reductions that Pfizer has already stated. This is from the already reduced levels. The government is blaming this on production delays at Pfizer. Pfizer says they have millions of doses ready in warehouses waiting for the government to say where to send them. So there is vaccine sitting around waiting for the government to distribute it but the government is telling states there's not.
Post by: perc2100 on December 17, 2020, 12:43:01 PM
In more good Pfizer vaccine news, they say they will be able to produce 100 million more doses next year than they thought. Once again, they've offered first dibs to the US. Once again, the outgoing administration is waffling on whether to accept their offer or not.Geezus I can't wait to have competent federal government again....
I wonder if Pfizer is just going to put less vaccine in each vial with all the reports that they've been putting in too much. So then they will have another 100 million doses to sell.
In bad vaccine news, the distribution of the vaccine has gone awry. Some states are saying that the CDC has told them to expect up to 40% less vaccine than they were promised. This shouldn't be confused with the existing reductions that Pfizer has already stated. This is from the already reduced levels. The government is blaming this on production delays at Pfizer. Pfizer says they have millions of doses ready in warehouses waiting for the government to say where to send them. So there is vaccine sitting around waiting for the government to distribute it but the government is telling states there's not.
Post by: Andrew Costa Mesa on December 17, 2020, 02:05:59 PM
http://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-12-17/hospitals-likely-to-be-overwhelmmed-by-new-years
http://www.ocregister.com/2020/12/16/coronavirus-unprecedented-order-issued-suspending-ambulance-diversions-in-orange-county
Post by: chocolateshake on December 17, 2020, 03:23:36 PM
Post by: perc2100 on December 17, 2020, 04:15:20 PM
Southern California is in a crisis like none other. ICU capacity is out completely. If you have a medical emergency, you're on your own.I've known people who spent _hours_ in San Diego trying to find a hospital for breathing issues a few weeks ago. A friend of a friend's girlfriend died a week ago because she had a severe asthma attack and couldn't find an Emergency Room that would/could take her ASAP.
http://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-12-17/hospitals-likely-to-be-overwhelmmed-by-new-years
http://www.ocregister.com/2020/12/16/coronavirus-unprecedented-order-issued-suspending-ambulance-diversions-in-orange-county
It's bad here in San Diego. Hospitals are now allowed to blanket turn away ambulances to the ER. That's unheard of. They do have to seek permission and each time it's granted it expires in a few hours. Still, imagine calling 911 and there not being a hospital to go to. This happened because over the weekend, people had to wait up to 7 hours after getting to the ER to get in. While not unusual in chairs during a bad flu season, generally when a ambulance brings you in it's a much shorter wait. The ambulance crew has to stay with you until the ER accepts you so if the wait is 7 hours then that's a ambulance out of commission for 7 hours.Yeah I got a message from a friend who's a nurse that told me to be extremely careful, as ANY type of serious injury would likely not be able to be treated for quite a long time. Many feared a worst-case scenario was coming in the weeks following Thanksgiving, and we are absolutely in the worst-case scenario now.
And there are _STILL_ fools traveling for the Holidays >:( :(
Post by: alyssa on December 18, 2020, 06:03:27 AM
Post by: perc2100 on December 18, 2020, 09:30:40 AM
I've heard reports of a 5 hour wait to get tested in Chula Vista.I'm incredibly glad as a HS music teacher who's been going into the classroom daily I have a few weeks to 1) not go ANYWHERE and 2) figure out curriculum that I don't have to teach in person (I like to drum along with the students & that's not conducive in my condo with my oldest zooming college courses, my youngest zooming 1st grade, and my wife working from home). Our district is scheduled to go in person mid-January but even with minimum campuses open to minimum students we're having MAJOR staffing issues; I can't imagine things will magically be significantly better in four weeks
Post by: chocolateshake on December 18, 2020, 11:35:13 AM
I've heard reports of a 5 hour wait to get tested in Chula Vista.
It's not surprising. There are two hotspots in San Diego. Chula Visa, National City and Imperial Beach is one. El Cajon, Lemon Grove and Spring Valley is the other.
Post by: Andrew Costa Mesa on December 19, 2020, 02:57:52 PM
http://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-12-18/we-are-getting-crushed-covid-19-is-hammering-l-a-countys-healthcare-system-as-deaths-soar-statewide
Post by: alyssa on December 20, 2020, 04:58:26 AM
why isn't one in LA?
Post by: chocolateshake on December 20, 2020, 12:28:15 PM
The good and bad news is that we do have some spare capacity in San Diego. The surge site that got all the press was the San Diego convention center. That was dismantled but there is another surge site. It has 200 beds. Smartly, they kept that one intact just in case. So that one is ready to go, kind of. The beds are there, the supplies are there but the staff is not. That's the problem now, there aren't enough healthcare workers. In that way, New York was lucky. They got hit when the rest of the country wasn't so healthcare workers flooded in from around the country. That can't happen now since everyone is hit and so many healthcare workers are out because they themselves have covid. So staffing will be a problem. I think the county has 50 traveling nurses it could use. Which is not enough.
Post by: chocolateshake on December 20, 2020, 01:27:37 PM
A new strain of Covid-19 infects over 1,000 people in the UK.
https://www.iheart.com/content/2020-12-15-new-strain-of-coronavirus-infects-over-1000-people-in-the-united-kingdom/?mid=533071&rid=46244587&sc=email&pname=newsletter&cid=NATIONAL&keyid=National%20iHeart%20Daily%20NewsTalk&campid=headline3
Well that blew up really quickly. On Wednesday the UK gov was saying it was OK. Since then they've had to add another tier to the emergency declaration and now the country is on extra special lockdown. Today much of Europe has banned travel of people and goods from the UK. Why not kick off Brexit a few days early?
The reality is that it's probably all too late. For them to be detecting it now means that people were spreading it at least a couple of weeks ago. Probably for much longer than that. It's already been found in Europe. Just like with the original covid which was already widespread before any measures were taken. Now we know that covid was already in the US in 2019. It takes a while for these things to get bad enough for people to take notice. Just as with the last more contagious variant from Europe, I wouldn't be surprised if it was already in the US too.
Post by: FBS on December 21, 2020, 01:38:10 PM
It absolutely has spread further afield. Wouldn't surprise me if we start to see many countries now coming forward to say it is active.
Post by: Miclpea on December 21, 2020, 02:24:51 PM
The UK government were made aware of this new mutation back in September, but did nothing.Absolutely it has spread!
It absolutely has spread further afield. Wouldn't surprise me if we start to see many countries now coming forward to say it is active.
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Post by: chocolateshake on December 21, 2020, 06:11:45 PM
The UK government were made aware of this new mutation back in September, but did nothing.
It absolutely has spread further afield. Wouldn't surprise me if we start to see many countries now coming forward to say it is active.
They already have. Off the top of my head I think Italy and Denmark have already detected it there. It may not be as innocuous as first thought and as still widely reported. That realization maybe why the UK government did an about face between Weds and Friday.
It's reported in the media to be more infectious. It's not the first variant to be like that. Many people don't realize that the strain of covid dominant in the world isn't the one from Wuhan. That one was relatively mild. It's a strain that came from Europe that was more infectious. That one was more infectious because it had more spike proteins but was otherwise the same as the original strain. This strain maybe more infectious and worst due to other mechanisms. One theory is that it evolved in people that were given convalescent plasma. If so, it evolved to avoid one of the defenses we've been able to come up with.
It's already the dominant strain in London and South East England. I don't see how it's not going to become the dominant strain world wide. That is unless the South African strain beats it to it.
Post by: Andrew Costa Mesa on December 22, 2020, 03:21:00 PM
http://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/22/us/pfizer-vaccine-doses.html?action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage
Post by: Andrew Costa Mesa on December 22, 2020, 09:36:11 PM
http://www.axios.com/biontech-vaccine-covid-variant-2388f93a-190a-45f4-ba97-ac50f33fabe6.html
Post by: chocolateshake on December 23, 2020, 12:39:28 AM
I don't see why not. These new vaccines, mrna, are more like computer programming than traditional medicine. Moderna designed it's vaccine in 2 days. That was before they had even seen it. China published the DNA for covid and 2 days later Moderna had chopped out the sequence for the spike protein and designed the vaccine. It's like someone posting source code and then someone else lifting a function out of it to use in their own program. There are even services that synthesis DNA/RNA just like there are services that print out a PDF or 3D print a design or print out a snapshot. Just send them a sequence.
So I don't see why BioNTech couldn't do the same. Someone publishes the DNA for a new variant, they chop out the new sequence and replace the sequence they are currently using. There you go, a new vaccine.
The question is whether the regulators will approve it for use without going through clinical trials. That's what took 10 months.
Post by: Andrew Costa Mesa on December 24, 2020, 04:04:27 PM
Experts believe the current vaccines are effective against the mutations in the U.K. and South Africa.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/covid-mutations-vaccines-effectiveness/2020/12/24/bcf3ea76-45ed-11eb-a277-49a6d1f9dff1_story.html
Post by: Andrew Costa Mesa on December 24, 2020, 04:09:36 PM
http://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/capitol-alert/article248057935.html
Post by: chocolateshake on December 25, 2020, 12:55:59 AM
those 75 and older should be next in line to be vaccinated.
I'm of the opinion that age group should be in 1a, they should be vaccinated now. Not just the ones in nursing homes but anyone 75 and over. That's where other countries like the UK have prioritized them. It makes sense. They make up 80% of covid deaths. They should be top priority.
It is estimated that these groups could get the shots as soon as mid-to-late January.
I think they are still operating under the expectation that 20 million people will be vaccinated by the end of the year. I don't see that happening. The first week there were 500,000 vaccinations. This week it's on track for 1,000,000. In order to met expectations, 18 million people would have to be vaccinated next week. That's not going to happen. I credit the increase this week to the Moderna vaccine that can be sent to many more sites than the BioNTech vaccine which requires specialized freezers. So many more places have received the Moderna vaccine than the BioNTech one. But even with that, about 85% of the delivered vaccine is sitting unused. It turns out the bottleneck is not the production or distribution, it's the jab. It seems we are following the testing model for vaccination. It's too slow. At this rate, it'll be April until the first group finishes their first shot, let alone their second shot. In order to get a shot into every adult by June, we need 40 million vaccinations a month, not 4 million. Add in the people coming back the following month for their second shot and that's 80 million vaccinations a month for most of those months. Even if only half the population is willing to get vaccinated, that's still a whole lot more jabbing than we are doing. We need volume.
I'm worried about how this process will play out once it's in less controlled spaces then it currently is. Right now organizations are vaccinating their people so there is structure. How will it work with the general public? I don't even know how people will know which group they are in and how they will go about getting a shot. Will it be like the flu shot? Will it be like a BF free for all? That would get messy quick. Other countries planned for this and it's orderly. It's like what you see play out in pandemic movies. The government tells people what group they are in and when to expect their turn. When the time comes they are told where to go and when to be there. They've set up vaccination centers to get as many people vaccinated as quickly and efficiently as possible. I don't see any of that organization here. Like with testing, it's ad hoc.
Post by: chocolateshake on December 30, 2020, 01:12:14 AM
Post by: alyssa on December 30, 2020, 06:32:08 AM
Quote
The county is reporting 19% of its existing ICU beds as available, but San Diego County Supervisor Nathan Fletcher said last week many of those beds lack staffing. The real number of available, staffed beds is likely much lower.https://www.kpbs.org/news/2020/dec/29/san-diego-county-2532-new-covid-19-infections/?utm_campaign=none&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&utm_term=headline/?_zl=wbaN2&_zs=obdHc
can we secede from the socal block?
^joking
Post by: Miclpea on December 30, 2020, 06:34:45 AM
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Post by: chocolateshake on December 30, 2020, 01:25:14 PM
channel 7 is reporting that sd county has 19% capacity for icu hospital beds. All other counties in the socal block are at zero.
That's good news. It was down to 14% earlier. I think of it as us being in the eye of the Thanksgiving-New Years storm.
Florida has jumped the gun and decided to add people over age 65 into the first group. While I think this is what it should have been to begin with, Florida is highlighting the problems with the haphazard vaccination "system" we have in the United States. The elderly are waiting in line overnight outside. More people show up than there are shots for. There's pushing and shoving like the vaccine is a Black Friday doorbuster. Kind of hard to maintain social distancing while pushing and shoving. A vaccination shoudn't be a super spreader event.
It shouldn't be this way. This needs to get fixed.
Post by: Andrew Costa Mesa on December 30, 2020, 01:46:16 PM
http://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-12-30/california-hits-new-one-day-covid-19-death-record-442
Post by: Miclpea on December 30, 2020, 03:01:34 PM
Gov. Newsom made the sobering announcement that the more contagious coronavirus was detected here in Southern California.I believe it is New York too but they just haven’t reported it yet.
http://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-12-30/california-hits-new-one-day-covid-19-death-record-442
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Post by: alyssa on December 31, 2020, 07:38:41 AM
Patricia Dowd died of covid in Silicon Valley on Feb 6. a full 6 weeks before the lockdown's started. Exactly 1 month after the super spreader event, CES.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/22/us/santa-clara-county-coronavirus-death.html
Post by: perc2100 on December 31, 2020, 11:22:15 AM
Gov. Newsom made the sobering announcement that the more contagious coronavirus was detected here in Southern California.It's in San Diego. We have several biotech firms that have been doing more/extensive testing than most of the state/country and that's how the state detected it yesterday. The guy who has it (someone younger than me) said he hadn't traveled overseas nor leaves the house extensively, which correlates to the thoughts that "it's likely here/has been here for awhile."
http://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-12-30/california-hits-new-one-day-covid-19-death-record-442
https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/health/story/2020-12-30/san-diego-county-man-tests-positive-for-uk-coronavirus-variant
Post by: chocolateshake on December 31, 2020, 12:22:55 PM
We have become reactive instead of proactive. Backtesting has shown that on the West Coast 1% of blood samples had covid antibodies as early as Dec 13, 2019. That would explain some of the unknown "flu" that was reported at the time. As the nation was concerned about the Chinese covid strain coming in from the West Coast, the more contagious European covid strain was sweeping in from the East Coast to infect the entire country. A big takeaway we from this pandemic is we need to rebuild our public health institutions. They've been devastated in the last few years.
I think it's pretty clear that the UK variant is widespread already in the US. The 3 cases confirmed so far must have been from community spread. The dude in San Diego even did everything right. He stayed at home and minimized external contact. He wasn't a jetsetter flying in from London. He still got it.
In another example of how vaccinations go wrong without a plan, a hospital in San Diego this week decided that business execs and personal trainers should get vaccinated before nursing home staff and residents. The county is not happy.
Post by: chocolateshake on January 01, 2021, 10:07:32 AM
Gov. Newsom made the sobering announcement that the more contagious coronavirus was detected here in Southern California.
http://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-12-30/california-hits-new-one-day-covid-19-death-record-442
We are now up to 4 cases of the UK variant in San Diego. I wonder how much of the surge in California is due to it. California was doing really good containing covid until November, then we shot up like a rocket. Back testing in time will tell us.
Post by: perc2100 on January 01, 2021, 03:26:51 PM
We are now up to 4 cases of the UK variant in San Diego. I wonder how much of the surge in California is due to it. California was doing really good containing covid until November, then we shot up like a rocket. Back testing in time will tell us.Yeah, it's hard to tell kind of; we know in San Diego the cases have been fairly wide-spread throughout the county, which seems to imply this has indeed been here for a bit of time :(
Post by: chocolateshake on January 07, 2021, 09:50:47 PM
It irritates me even more than ever that people still don't wear masks. I was at drive up pickup at Walmart. The family in the car next to me didn't wear masks. They are all outside. The kids are running around. The parents are helping the Walmart employee load the car. Doing this without a mask on is so disrespectful. They ask that you stay in your car to protect their employees. He's already risking his health working during a pandemic. He doesn't need people breathing in his face without a mask on. Some other dude walks up to my car to ask where the in store pickup is. Of course he isn't wearing a mask either. I just stare at him.
It's illustrative how other countries handle covid. Japan is freaking out over the surge in Tokyo. Their "surge" is 1/20th the number of cases here in California per capita. We would be sighing in relief to be that low.
Post by: alyssa on January 08, 2021, 06:33:53 AM
Post by: chocolateshake on January 08, 2021, 11:43:31 AM
Post by: perc2100 on January 08, 2021, 11:57:31 AM
i'm not sure we're the only hotspot. More likely, the other area's aren't testing for it yet.The Centers for Disease Control says Florida has nearly half of the known cases in the United States of a mutated and likely more contagious strain of the coronavirus. https://www.local10.com/news/local/2021/01/08/covid-19-variant-florida-has-almost-half-of-known-us-cases/?__vfz=medium%3Dsharebar
Post by: alyssa on January 08, 2021, 08:56:30 PM
Post by: TardisMom on January 09, 2021, 08:07:22 AM
Tailgate parking lot by petco is slated to be converted into a drive up vaccine location
State Farm Stadium in Phoenix (where the AZ Cardinals play) will be used as a 24/7 vaccination site starting Monday. Finally!!
Post by: alyssa on January 09, 2021, 08:20:20 AM
The Philly convention center is being used & opened soon/if not already, for mass vaccination, @Michael M (https://www.friendsofcc.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=2539) https://www.phillyfightingcovid.com/vaccine
If my dad doesn't sign up in the next hr, i'm going to risk parental rath & sign them both up! they're both in their 80's
Post by: chocolateshake on January 09, 2021, 09:49:46 AM
the SD vac. center is opening on monday also. https://www.countynewscenter.com/county-of-san-diego-to-open-first-vaccination-super-station-in-partnership-with-uc-san-diego-health-padres-and-city-of-san-diego/
The Philly convention center is being used & opened soon/if not already, for mass vaccination, @Michael M (https://www.friendsofcc.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=2539) https://www.phillyfightingcovid.com/vaccine
If my dad doesn't sign up in the next hr, i'm going to risk parental rath & sign them both up! they're both in their 80's
I wish San Diego had pre-commit. That way we could sign up and then wait for the notice to come in. I'll have to keep monitoring the site to see when 1B opens up. The super site is the way we will go even if we have to wait longer to get an appt there.
Post by: Miss Kitty on January 09, 2021, 10:21:45 AM
Paris REALLY needs it. She just got an email last night that she may have been exposed at work (In n Out) on the 3rd. This isn't the 1st time. That's why eating at a restaurant is playing a game of Russian Roulette.
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Post by: SteveD on January 09, 2021, 10:35:46 AM
They've opened up a vaccination super site here at an old Sears store at our local mall.
Post by: Andrew Costa Mesa on January 09, 2021, 01:38:32 PM
Post by: perc2100 on January 09, 2021, 01:52:11 PM
Post by: Miclpea on January 09, 2021, 02:00:35 PM
Paris is 1b and Kass and I are 1c.Is Paris with you in San Diego?
Paris REALLY needs it. She just got an email last night that she may have been exposed at work (In n Out) on the 3rd. This isn't the 1st time. That's why eating at a restaurant is playing a game of Russian Roulette.
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Post by: Miss Kitty on January 09, 2021, 02:09:32 PM
Is Paris with you in San Diego?Yes, North County
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Post by: TardisMom on January 09, 2021, 03:43:03 PM
Paris is 1b and Kass and I are 1c.
Paris REALLY needs it. She just got an email last night that she may have been exposed at work (In n Out) on the 3rd. This isn't the 1st time. That's why eating at a restaurant is playing a game of Russian Roulette.
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My Katie got it and was sick over Christmas and New Year's. She was in bed for 7 days. She is a server at a restaurant and there were 4 of them out with COVID at the same time. Luckily the rest of the family didn't get it, though we all 4 live together.
It's actually pretty nice that Paris was warned, there was no tracking or tracing or warning here, and the other workers who worked with them just continued going to work. They removed her from the schedule for about two weeks but no follow up otherwise. There's no guidance from the state level. And there's actually the opposite, our governor has allocated funds for restaurants to have more outdoor seating and has reduced regulations to setting up outdoor areas, to encourage more restaurant capacity.
https://azgovernor.gov/governor/news/2021/01/governor-ducey-provides-additional-funding-support-local-restaurants#:~:text=So%20far%2C%20265%20Arizona%20restaurants,received%20funding%20totaling%20%241%20million.&text=The%20%242%20million%20comes%20from,for%20Arizona's%20COVID%2D19%20response. (https://azgovernor.gov/governor/news/2021/01/governor-ducey-provides-additional-funding-support-local-restaurants#:~:text=So%20far%2C%20265%20Arizona%20restaurants,received%20funding%20totaling%20%241%20million.&text=The%20%242%20million%20comes%20from,for%20Arizona's%20COVID%2D19%20response.)
Also, my 81 year old dad is in SD. If anyone hears about how he can get vaccinated please let me know, I'm not nearby and unaware of how to get him taken care of.
Post by: chocolateshake on January 09, 2021, 05:35:22 PM
Also, my 81 year old dad is in SD. If anyone hears about how he can get vaccinated please let me know, I'm not nearby and unaware of how to get him taken care of.
You can monitor the vaccination status on the county reservation page. Currently it's for people under 1A. Your dad is 1B. When that happens is unclear. On that page, the county says there are an estimated 500,000 people in 1A. Which seems high. That would mean that 1 out of 3 people in San Diego are involved in health care or living in nursing homes. The news has reported the number in 1A to be 166,000. Which seems more reasonable. So far about 50,000 vaccinations have been given in San Diego.
https://www.sandiegocounty.gov/content/sdc/hhsa/programs/phs/community_epidemiology/dc/2019-nCoV/vaccines/COVID-19-VaxEvents.html
Post by: alyssa on January 09, 2021, 06:08:07 PM
Also, my 81 year old dad is in SD. If anyone hears about how he can get vaccinated please let me know, I'm not nearby and unaware of how to get him taken care of.
@TardisMom (https://www.friendsofcc.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=842) once you get an appointment, reach out to me/others in SD & we'll get your dad to the appointment. I'd be happy to chauffeur him through the process.
Post by: alyssa on January 09, 2021, 06:19:34 PM
https://www.sandiegocounty.gov/content/sdc/hhsa/programs/phs/community_epidemiology/dc/2019-nCoV/vaccines/COVID-19-VaxEvents.html
It occurred to me, we can apply badge/hotel/parking techniques to obtaining appointment times for our members. @SteveD (https://www.friendsofcc.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=3710) ?
We need to know when that appointment site is updated
Post by: Miclpea on January 09, 2021, 07:04:15 PM
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Post by: SteveD on January 10, 2021, 09:41:23 AM
It occurred to me, we can apply badge/hotel/parking techniques to obtaining appointment times for our members. @SteveD (https://www.friendsofcc.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=3710) ?We could handle this like the badge sale, but would need to know what we are looking for. Right now, there doesn't seem to be any appointments available at any of the locations.
We need to know when that appointment site is updated
Maybe once things open up a little we can explore this further.
Post by: alyssa on January 10, 2021, 11:20:11 AM
We could handle this like the badge sale, but would need to know what we are looking for. Right now, there doesn't seem to be any appointments available at any of the locations.yeah, it's in the pre/design/what's the parameter faze.
Maybe once things open up a little we can explore this further.
Post by: alyssa on January 11, 2021, 06:13:02 AM
One time slot on Wed and a huge amount of spots on the weekend, Jan 16 & 17th
This is still for the 1A Group.
https://www.sandiegocounty.gov/content/sdc/hhsa/programs/phs/community_epidemiology/dc/2019-nCoV/vaccines/vax-schedule-appointment.html
@TardisMom (https://www.friendsofcc.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=842) @chocolateshake (https://www.friendsofcc.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=6586)
tagged since they've got parents in the next group to be inoculated
from the site
Quote
On the insurance information page – Who will be paying for the cost - select “Someone Else”.
You will receive a confirmation email with a MyUCSDChart activation code. Please create a MyUCSDChart account prior to your appointment. We will be using MyUCSDChart to manage the COVID-19 vaccine including scheduling of your 2nd dose once you have completed your 1st dose appointment. This will be needed to schedule your second dose appointment.
You will not be able to schedule your second dose appointment until after you’ve been given your first dose and completed your first dose appointment
Post by: TardisMom on January 11, 2021, 08:16:05 AM
Appointments appeared on the San Diego vaccine website for the super inoculation site Petco at 6:00AM
One time slot on Wed and a huge amount of spots on the weekend, Jan 16 & 17th
This is still for the 1A Group.
https://www.sandiegocounty.gov/content/sdc/hhsa/programs/phs/community_epidemiology/dc/2019-nCoV/vaccines/vax-schedule-appointment.html
@TardisMom (https://www.friendsofcc.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=842) @chocolateshake (https://www.friendsofcc.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=6586)
tagged since they've got parents in the next group to be inoculated
from the site
Thank you @alyssa (https://www.friendsofcc.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=1) ! And thanks for offering to help with getting my dad there!
Post by: chocolateshake on January 11, 2021, 04:14:40 PM
Post by: alyssa on January 12, 2021, 06:29:54 AM
Let's see what's going to happen. Some states have already broken from the CDC tiers. Biden says he will break from the CDC rules that guarantee people a timely second shot to maximize pushing out as many vaccinations as possible. I hear more and more calls to abandon the tiered system. Vaccinate as many people as possible without regard to criteria. It could turn into a free for all.it could, however, setting up the appointment system early, I think will limit the 'free-for-all' nature here in SD. Give places time to get sorted, not everyone is FL. LOL
Interestingly, today there are a few appointments open for this morning, none for any other day. They're still in the 1A group.
In my selfish heart, i wish there was a stand by line. I can go camp out in line for a day.... LOL
Post by: perc2100 on January 12, 2021, 08:35:24 AM
In my selfish heart, i wish there was a stand by line. I can go camp out in line for a day.... LOLI dunno if its selfish; if there are medical pros who refuse the vaccine en masse as has been reported throughout Southern CA, I think they should be doing something like a 'stand by' type line, where at 5pm any vials/doses left over for the day are distributed to anyone in line. I'd much rather that than the case of millions of vials sitting around going unused. When I was in college, some friends and I would sometime drive up to Cleveland (from Columbus) to see the Symphony (one of the best in the world, if you can believe that) and wait for what they called 'student rush' tickets: any tix not sold by, like, 30/45 min. before the start were sold at a super cheap price: sometimes AMAZING seats for, like, $10 or something (I can't remember anymore how cheap). I'd be all for that kind of thing for the vaccine since the vials have a shortish life span
Post by: alyssa on January 12, 2021, 08:45:36 AM
I dunno if its selfish; if there are medical pros who refuse the vaccine en masse as has been reported throughout Southern CA, I think they should be doing something like a 'stand by' type line, where at 5pm any vials/doses left over for the day are distributed to anyone in line. I'd much rather that than the case of millions of vials sitting around going unused. When I was in college, some friends and I would sometime drive up to Cleveland (from Columbus) to see the Symphony (one of the best in the world, if you can believe that) and wait for what they called 'student rush' tickets: any tix not sold by, like, 30/45 min. before the start were sold at a super cheap price: sometimes AMAZING seats for, like, $10 or something (I can't remember anymore how cheap). I'd be all for that kind of thing for the vaccine since the vials have a shortish life span
I'm guessing that's why the gov. is loosening up the tiered restrictions
Post by: SteveD on January 12, 2021, 08:55:26 AM
In how they are dealing with those in the wrong group who show up at vaccination sites, the NJDOH wants the sites to call these people back in if there are any extra doses left at the end of the day.
Sounds a lot like a standby line to me.
Post by: alyssa on January 12, 2021, 09:04:04 AM
(https://media.giphy.com/media/3oz8xxf8FP74oH2Auc/giphy.gif)
Post by: chocolateshake on January 12, 2021, 10:06:03 AM
it could, however, setting up the appointment system early, I think will limit the 'free-for-all' nature here in SD. Give places time to get sorted, not everyone is FL. LOL
Interestingly, today there are a few appointments open for this morning, none for any other day. They're still in the 1A group.
In my selfish heart, i wish there was a stand by line. I can go camp out in line for a day.... LOL
I meant that it would be a a free for all in terms of anyone would be eligible. So the chances to get an appt would change from being 1 in a smaller subset to being 1 among everyone else.
A standby line would be great. I have to assume like everything else there are no shows. I would make it a virtual standby line. Maybe have an option when you sign up to say that you want to be notified if there are cancellations and can make it there with an hour's notice. The way San Diego is handling it is if there is more capacity during the course of a day, they will release more appt slots online. Yesterday they allocated 2500 slots initially. When they found they had more capacity yesterday, they released another 1000 slots for the rest of the day. So in San Diego it pays to keep checking the site, even if it's sold out, since more appts can appear during the coarse of a day.
Post by: SteveD on January 12, 2021, 10:46:50 AM
In New Jersey, they are still only doing the 1A's plus police and fire.
With an estimated 2.4 million people in 1B, I'm thinking the 1C group won't be seeing the vaccine now until sometime late summer.
Post by: chocolateshake on January 12, 2021, 11:59:31 AM
Now to see when California will take up this new guidance.
Post by: Miclpea on January 12, 2021, 02:25:18 PM
Post by: puppy on January 12, 2021, 03:49:59 PM
and we **all** know how to deal with long lines
(https://media.giphy.com/media/3oz8xxf8FP74oH2Auc/giphy.gif)
Pros, we are. ;D
Post by: puppy on January 12, 2021, 04:06:06 PM
Post by: chocolateshake on January 12, 2021, 08:29:03 PM
I'm seeing super pod COVID vaccination sites are opening up, but instructions say the employer will tell people where to sign up. What if they are over 65 and aren't working? Where do they sign up?
Your state hasn't adopted the over 65 CDC guidance yet. So they are operating under 1A rules for health care workers. Since that guidance wasn't changed until this morning, I would give them a few days to change things.
Post by: puppy on January 12, 2021, 09:06:24 PM
Your state hasn't adopted the over 65 CDC guidance yet. So they are operating under 1A rules for health care workers. Since that guidance wasn't changed until this morning, I would give them a few days to change things.
They're giving them at Disneyland and Dodger Stadium. I would take either. I just don't know where to make the appointment. Anyone?
___________
Never mind. I found it: https://othena.com/individuals.php. Not easy to get through.
Post by: alyssa on January 13, 2021, 07:34:15 AM
They're giving them at Disneyland and Dodger Stadium. I would take either. I just don't know where to make the appointment. Anyone?
___________
Never mind. I found it: https://othena.com/individuals.php. Not easy to get through.
what specifically does regestering on that site do?
enable viewing of appointments? or notifications?
Post by: puppy on January 13, 2021, 07:36:44 AM
what specifically does regestering on that site do?
enable viewing of appointments? or notifications?
You register for an appointment at a specific location. Don't fill out the form on the first page. That form is to get notification for the app. Instead, hit the FIRST TIME USER button. Keep hitting it until it gives you a prescreening questionnaire.
Last night, I made an appointment for my dad for this afternoon.
Post by: alyssa on January 13, 2021, 07:39:36 AM
Your state hasn't adopted the over 65 CDC guidance yet. So they are operating under 1A rules for health care workers. Since that guidance wasn't changed until this morning, I would give them a few days to change things.
There were appointments available for today when i first checked the SD site at 6:30a
Post by: chocolateshake on January 13, 2021, 11:05:25 AM
There were appointments available for today when i first checked the SD site at 6:30a
For people over 65? The site still says
"**The following information is intended only for healthcare workers in San Diego County. If you are not a healthcare worker, please access the COVID-19 vaccine page for the public.**"
"Other documents accepted for healthcare worker identification:
Professional license AND a photo ID; or,
Signed letter from your employer on facility letterhead AND a photo ID; or,
Payment stub or timesheet from your healthcare employer or in-home supportive services AND a photo ID."
Post by: alyssa on January 13, 2021, 11:32:17 AM
For people over 65? The site still saysI understand
the parent site outlining the different phases(tiers) hasn't been updated since 1/5, https://www.sandiegocounty.gov/content/sdc/hhsa/programs/phs/community_epidemiology/dc/2019-nCoV/vaccines/phases.html
it seems as tho, the site is behind in outlining the tiers. I think the mandate by the cdc/newsom/countyLeaders might be more correct then what the site says.
Post by: chocolateshake on January 13, 2021, 11:42:15 AM
I understand
the parent site outlining the different phases(tiers) hasn't been updated since 1/5, https://www.sandiegocounty.gov/content/sdc/hhsa/programs/phs/community_epidemiology/dc/2019-nCoV/vaccines/phases.html
it seems as tho, the site is behind in outlining the tiers. I think the mandate by the cdc/newsom/countyLeaders might be more correct then what the site says.
1A, healthcare workers only is still what the reservation pages say. An interview on the news with the spokesperson for a site that just opened today said it was for 1A only. That they hope to spin up more capacity when the other tiers open.
My understanding is that the state hasn't accepted the CDC guidance from yesterday yet. That might happen as early as today.
I would love to have it wrong and that it's been opened already. But it's always been the case that anyone can make an appt. It's when you show up that they verify eligibility with ID. I guess one could make an appt now and hope that the rules change by the time of the appt. But if a lot of people did that, it would gum up the system.
I really wish that San Diego opened the calendar out indefinitely. In other states, you can make appts months out. San Diego seems to be dribbling them out a few days at a time. I rather make an appt a month out then have to check constantly to see if I can get an appt for tomorrow.
Post by: alyssa on January 13, 2021, 12:06:18 PM
Get ready to make those over 65 appointments. California has been following the CDC guidance. The CDC just changed their guidance. Now they are saying that anyone over 65 should get the vaccine. They are also saying that vaccine should not be held back for people's second dose. Get out as many first doses as possible. So we are matching what the UK did. Which is funny since 2 weeks ago everyone from the FDA to Fauci was dead set against it.
Now to see when California will take up this new guidance.
1A, healthcare workers only is still what the reservation pages say. An interview on the news with the spokesperson for a site that just opened today said it was for 1A only. That they hope to spin up more capacity when the other tiers open.
My understanding is that the state hasn't accepted the CDC guidance from yesterday yet. That might happen as early as today.
I would love to have it wrong and that it's been opened already. But it's always been the case that anyone can make an appt. It's when you show up that they verify eligibility with ID. I guess one could make an appt now and hope that the rules change by the time of the appt. But if a lot of people did that, it would gum up the system.
I really wish that San Diego opened the calendar out indefinitely. In other states, you can make appts months out. San Diego seems to be dribbling them out a few days at a time. I rather make an appt a month out then have to check constantly to see if I can get an appt for tomorrow.
you're outlinong my point ;)
i believe, like you, we are in a state of 'getting ready' for the next tier opening. We don't know when it'll happen OR how fast the web site will be able to reflect the change.
it seems clear however, that site will be used and an appointment system will be used.
i find it disheartening there have been no updates to the definition to the tiers over the past week.
Post by: puppy on January 13, 2021, 12:33:46 PM
you're outline my point ;)
i believe, like you, we are in a state of 'getting ready' for the next tier opening. We don't know when it'll happen OR how fast the web site will be able to reflect the change.
it seems clear however, that site will be used and an appointment system will be used.
i find it disheartening there have been no updates to the definition to the tiers over the past week.
No. California is vaccinating 65 and up. I made an appointment for my dad last night. It said 65 and up.
Post by: semigeekgirl on January 13, 2021, 02:20:55 PM
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Post by: SteveD on January 13, 2021, 03:02:17 PM
My Wife and I were able to schedule appointments for this coming weekend.
Post by: perc2100 on January 13, 2021, 04:26:53 PM
Post by: chocolateshake on January 13, 2021, 06:48:47 PM
"The County of San Diego (County) is currently prioritizing COVID-19 vaccination events for healthcare workers and employees and residents of long-term care facilities, based upon federal and state guidance and recommendations from the County's COVID-19 Vaccine Clinical Advisory Group. People 65 years of age and older are in the next priority group (Phase 1B-Tier 1) for COVID-19 vaccination."
So it's still a waiting game for those in San Diego county. I guess those 65 and over in the northern reaches could register for Disneyland and make the drive. It's really not that much farther than driving to downtown San Diego.
In other San Diego news, the positivity rate is now 22%. That's pretty horrendous. Stay home.
Update: I just got an email from our medical group. They confirm what's on the county website. Currently 1A, next up is 1B-1 which will now be 65 and over. This is actually bad news for us since before it was 75 and up. So now the group is over twice as big and thus more competition for appointments. They asked people to be patient since there are 500,000 people in group 1A so it'll be a while. The funny part was they asked that people stop calling.
Post by: Andrew Costa Mesa on January 13, 2021, 10:49:37 PM
Post by: puppy on January 13, 2021, 11:12:44 PM
I had no luck with the app that takes appointments for Orange County. Trying to get on it is like trying to buy a Comic-Con badge back in the day when everybody jumps in the waiting room at once. Of the 60,000 that tried to get in, only 10,000 were successful. They are booked for the next three days. I wish both Kaiser and the pharmacy chains would make themselves available.
Kaiser is available. I read online that they will vaccinate non-Kaiser patients but I can't find that right now.
The Orange County site is working right now. I clicked and got in right away. It seems to work better at night.
Post by: frgx on January 13, 2021, 11:34:46 PM
https://www.ralphs.com/rx/guest/get-vaccinated
Sign up at Albertsons to receive info https://www.albertsons.com/my-vaccine-communication.html
Post by: TardisMom on January 14, 2021, 08:12:50 AM
Now need SD to open up so I can get my dad scheduled.
Post by: chocolateshake on January 14, 2021, 11:10:44 AM
Here in Phoenix I was just able to schedule my 81 year old mom for the vaccine at one of the sites run by Banner Hospitals, but not until 2/12. The AZ state/State Farm Stadium is booked through 1/18 and will reopen on the 19th, but decided to go with the sure thing.
Now need SD to open up so I can get my dad scheduled.
I really wish San Diego scheduled like that instead of a few days at a time. Even the sites run by private hospitals only schedule out about a week at a time.
I would check if your local Ralphs or Albertsons pharmacies are administering the vaccine. The ones out here in Riverside County are doing it for Phase 1A groups, but that should change soon to include Phase 1B tier 1 essential workers, and for those 65 and older. You can always schedule an appointment for a week or two out, with the expectation that the later groups would have been added by then. Might be worth a shot. :D
https://www.ralphs.com/rx/guest/get-vaccinated
Sign up at Albertsons to receive info https://www.albertsons.com/my-vaccine-communication.html
I'm on the CVS list but as of 7 days ago, they still say that it's not time.
Check all the pharmacies as well as your GP. Even check with your dentist since a while back there was talk about having dentist vaccinate as well. Pretty much anyone licensed to give a jab.
Post by: puppy on January 14, 2021, 11:59:46 AM
I really wish San Diego scheduled like that instead of a few days at a time. Even the sites run by private hospitals only schedule out about a week at a time.
I'm on the CVS list but as of 7 days ago, they still say that it's not time.
Check all the pharmacies as well as your GP. Even check with your dentist since a while back there was talk about having dentist vaccinate as well. Pretty much anyone licensed to give a jab.
Joy! I got my mother-in-law an appointment in Northern California.
Post by: Andrew Costa Mesa on January 14, 2021, 12:03:51 PM
Kaiser is available. I read online that they will vaccinate non-Kaiser patients but I can't find that right now.
The Orange County site is working right now. I clicked and got in right away. It seems to work better at night.
Kaiser in SoCal is still only taking care of health workers and nursing home residents.
I had no luck with the app last night or this morning. What day is your appointment?
Post by: puppy on January 14, 2021, 12:14:05 PM
Kaiser in SoCal is still only taking care of health workers and nursing home residents.
I had no luck with the app last night or this morning. What day is your appointment?
I'm not high enough on the list yet. I'm just getting appointments for family members. My dad was vaccinated at Disneyland on Wednesday. My mother-in-law has an appointment in Northern California for the 26th.
Post by: Andrew Costa Mesa on January 14, 2021, 12:58:16 PM
I called Kaiser in SoCal, they’re still waiting for directions from Orange County.
Post by: alyssa on January 14, 2021, 04:00:01 PM
Quote
none of the San Diego hospitals have been given the vaccinations at this time to begin distribution to their patients, and we are waiting to hear from the government on when to expect them.
Post by: chocolateshake on January 15, 2021, 01:25:16 PM
Scripts here in SD doesn't have any at least per their email today
Which is ironic since the official county vaccination sites are run by two of the big hospital operators in San Diego.
Bad news today. There's even less vaccine than thought. The government should have been keeping 1 dose in reserve for every dose given to use as the second shot. This is the reserve that Biden wanted released to give as many people as possible their first shot. Surprise! There is no reserve as planned. What happened to it?
Post by: puppy on January 15, 2021, 01:48:07 PM
Which is ironic since the official county vaccination sites are run by two of the big hospital operators in San Diego.
Bad news today. There's even less vaccine than thought. The government should have been keeping 1 dose in reserve for every dose given to use as the second shot. This is the reserve that Biden wanted released to give as many people as possible their first shot. Surprise! There is no reserve as planned. What happened to it?
There was...no...plan.
Hopefully, Biden can cobble something together.
Post by: chocolateshake on January 15, 2021, 06:24:19 PM
"**Due to limited vaccine supply, the County of San Diego cannot provide COVID-19 vaccinations for individuals 65 years of age and older at this time. Planning efforts are under way to vaccinate this population of Phase 1B next. Healthcare providers may administer vaccinations to this population, if they have doses available.**"
@TardisMom (https://www.friendsofcc.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=842)
Post by: alyssa on January 16, 2021, 06:33:36 AM
San Diego updated it's policies today. While they will not directly vaccinate those over 65, they now allow for those over 65 to be vaccinated if doses can be found. UC San Diego Health, who runs the Petco site, is now vaccinating those over 65 in a limited fashion. It's invitation only. They will contact those eligible.here's the link to that announcement re 65+ age group
"**Due to limited vaccine supply, the County of San Diego cannot provide COVID-19 vaccinations for individuals 65 years of age and older at this time. Planning efforts are under way to vaccinate this population of Phase 1B next. Healthcare providers may administer vaccinations to this population, if they have doses available.**"
@TardisMom (https://www.friendsofcc.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=842)
they aren't vacc. 65+ at petco. There are a good amt of appointments available at petco. Which indicates early morning is a good time to check the site when our turn comes. https://www.countynewscenter.com/covid-19-vaccine-for-san-diegans-65-coming-soon/
Bad news today. There's even less vaccine than thought. The government should have been keeping 1 dose in reserve for every dose given to use as the second shot. This is the reserve that Biden wanted released to give as many people as possible their first shot. Surprise! There is no reserve as planned. What happened to it?
There was...no...plan.Perhaps, in an effort to meet Trumps goal of vaccinations by the end of the year, the second doses were released to the states? Unbeknownst to the medical advisors.
Post by: alyssa on January 17, 2021, 11:58:46 AM
there are none avalible now- it's interesting to see that many vac. being shot into folks. this is good