Author Topic: Reports & check ins in the age of Covid  (Read 14676 times)

Offline hikanteki

  • Fulfillment Room
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2012
  • Posts: 1607
  • Liked: 454
Re: Reports & check ins in the age of Covid
« Reply #135 on: March 26, 2020, 09:40:06 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Yeah I think that's great for those countries. I may have to take back what I said about Japan though. I think there's been some indication that they might also be hiding their numbers. OTOH, I should add a country like Germany to the model countries category to emulate. According to NYTimes, they're testing almost 500K per week and they have a fatality rate of 0.4%.

Germans, by definition, are masters at social distancing.
SDCC 2007, 2012-2014, 2016-2019 | ECCC 2012-2019 | WC 2010-2011, 2016, 2019 | RCCC 2015 | SVCC 2016-2019 | DCC 2016 | SLCC 2019 | SWC 2015 | Fanime 2010-2019

Offline chocolateshake

  • Fulfillment Room
  • *****
  • Join Date: Dec 2016
  • Posts: 1968
  • Liked: 721
Re: Reports & check ins in the age of Covid
« Reply #136 on: March 26, 2020, 10:52:54 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
I would contact your primary care doctor and ask them if they're willing to prescribe hydroxychloroquine or azithromycin for you if you start getting pneumonia-like symptoms.

Please do not do that.  There is no evidence that chloroquine does anything for covid and contrary to what the President says, it can hurt you.  There are pit falls to chloroquine.  It's not even widely used as a malaria drug anymore.  This fad of hoarding unproven drugs is destroying the supply for people that legitimately need it.  People on Lupus can't get it now.  Those people do need it.  It works for them.  Hype is hurting real people.

Small study from China showing that chloroquine does nothing for covid.

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

People on Lupus now can't get the drug they need because of this hype.

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login


Friends of Comic Cons

  • Guest
Re: Reports & check ins in the age of Covid
« Reply #137 on: Today at 01:20:12 PM »

Offline omraged9

  • Ballroom 20
  • ****
  • Join Date: Jan 2014
  • Posts: 761
  • Liked: 208
Re: Reports & check ins in the age of Covid
« Reply #137 on: March 26, 2020, 11:49:42 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Please do not do that.  There is no evidence that chloroquine does anything for covid and contrary to what the President says, it can hurt you.  There are pit falls to chloroquine.  It's not even widely used as a malaria drug anymore.  This fad of hoarding unproven drugs is destroying the supply for people that legitimately need it.  People on Lupus can't get it now.  Those people do need it.  It works for them.  Hype is hurting real people.

Small study from China showing that chloroquine does nothing for covid.

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

People on Lupus now can't get the drug they need because of this hype.

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

I disagree. You have to ignore that Trump suddenly politicized the drug. You have to look at all the potential data out there about chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine, not just one study. Here's a bunch of articles I saved the links for to give you an idea of why other countries like South Korea are using HCQ in their treatment:

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login (early look at potential drugs for treatment)
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Previous HCQ research for original SARs in 2009:
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

You have to pay attention to what other countries are doing right now to treat it. There's also other hospitals that are getting hit starting to use it now

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

It's true that there are no ideal peer-review clinical trials to point to in showing that it definitely helps with treatment of covid. But there won't be any conclusive trials until probably next year. When there's an epidemic, can we afford to sit back and let people get worse with no treatment when there's a potential drug that can help decrease the severity of the disease?

I do feel bad for lupus and rheumatoid arthritis patients who are effected by the shortage. Thankfully some companies are stepping up in producing the drug. Hopefully there won't be a shortage for too long.

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

I've been following the progress of this potential drug treatment for the past month. To me, this has the most potential right now compared to some of the initial antivirals used like Kaletra, a HIV drug. Remdesivir is potentially the most promising but FDA approval will take a long time.
Anyhow, don't let someone like Trump politicize the drug for you. Look at the research that was available before he mentioned it.

Offline chocolateshake

  • Fulfillment Room
  • *****
  • Join Date: Dec 2016
  • Posts: 1968
  • Liked: 721
Re: Reports & check ins in the age of Covid
« Reply #138 on: March 27, 2020, 01:40:56 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
I disagree. You have to ignore that Trump suddenly politicized the drug. You have to look at all the potential data out there about chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine, not just one study. Here's a bunch of articles I saved the links for to give you an idea of why other countries like South Korea are using HCQ in their treatment:

A lot of those links you posted don't have anything to do with covid, they talk about using chloroquine for other purposes.  Other links refer to chloroquine as an anti-viral, it's not approved as an anti-viral that I know of.  The only link in all those you posted that I saw that directly discusses chloroquine and covid was an experiment done in vitro, in a "test tube".  There's a lot of stuff that works in a test tube that doesn't work in a living organism.  Chloroquine was looked at as a drug to treat HIV and SARS.  It showed promise in vitro.  SARS was the novel coronavirus of it's day.  That promise didn't translate.

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

There's only one study concerning efficacy of chloroquine on covid in humans.  That's the study I posted.  Many of those links you posted are hopes and prayers, not science.

My opinion has nothing to do with Trump politicizing it.  There is simply no evidence that chloroquine is effective in treating covid.  This happened during the SARS outbreak as well.  People were convinced that steroids were the magic cure.  Looking back, it wasn't.  In fact, it did more harm than good.  Here are a couple of papers about steroids and SARS.  The first was a pro/con about it as it happened.  Sounds familiar doesn't it?

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

And here is look back about what happened because some people went ahead because they thought steroids were the answer.

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Right now, people are throwing every possible drug they can think of at covid in hopes that something will work.  I would not be surprised if someone swears that the miracle drug, aspirin, is the answer.  It would be great if an existing drug was an effective treatment.  I would be ecstatic if that was chloroquine.  But right now there is no evidence that chloroquine or any other existing drug is effective.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2020, 02:03:37 AM by chocolateshake »

Offline Iris

  • Supporter
  • Hall H
  • *****
  • Join Date: Feb 2013
  • Posts: 1136
  • Liked: 517
Re: Reports & check ins in the age of Covid
« Reply #139 on: March 27, 2020, 10:32:05 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
I hope it's not Covid-19 :(  I'd try to drink as much hot/warm water as possible, take Tylenol for the fever, and take any zinc supplements you can find (though be careful with the amount because too much is toxic). I would contact your primary care doctor and ask them if they're willing to prescribe hydroxychloroquine or azithromycin for you if you start getting pneumonia-like symptoms. Be watchful of your symptoms daily for the next 7-10 days. There's been anecdotal reports how sometimes people can feel better one day and suddenly have full-on pneumonia and can't breathe the next day. I'd ask family members or close friends to monitor you daily and be ready to drive you to the hospital if it suddenly gets bad like that.

I've been in contact with my GP and my mum who's a nurse practitioner helping treat/refer covid-19 patients.

I'm carefully watching for worsening symptoms. So far they're coming and going, one day is good and then the next day is insanely bad. My mum is home from work for the next three days so she's keeping an eye on me for now just in case.

The only problem with getting meds prescribed is that I'm on A LOT of medications already (I have a few chronic conditions and a cerebrovascular disease.) So, I basically need to consult with pharmacists and my specialists any time something more than the basics need to be prescribed, thus I'm waiting until it's actually needed. Of note, my liver enzymes have been slightly elevated lately, so I'm definitely not adding any other meds unless absolutely necessary.

I've been told to mainly self-quarantine, hydrate (which I always drink at least 2.5L a day,) watch for fevers and treat them, etc. Currently, I'm not too worried unless I start developing breathing issues, if that happens I'm going straight to the ER. I'm young, not immunocompromised despite all my issues, and generally healthy. So unless it takes a turn for the worse, I'm going to try and remain as calm as my anxiety disorder allows.

At this point, even in California I don't qualify for testing for it yet unless I worsen. I'm basically resting in bed, hydrating, taking tylenol as needed, playing a lot of video games to kill time, and working remotely when I feel up to it. Thank god for the timing of Animal Crossing: New Horizons.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2020, 10:36:35 AM by Iris »

Offline chocolateshake

  • Fulfillment Room
  • *****
  • Join Date: Dec 2016
  • Posts: 1968
  • Liked: 721
Re: Reports & check ins in the age of Covid
« Reply #140 on: March 27, 2020, 02:12:31 PM »
Random reports from around the world.

Italy is serious about self isolating now.  After a shaky start, if someone that has tested positive is caught outside their home the penalty is 1-5 years in prison.

China is concerned that even with the lockdown lifted, that some people will not be willing to leave their homes.

Covid is not just a health and economic shock.  It's a social shock.  It will take months for things to get back to normal even once the all clear is sounded.  Somethings will probably not change.  How many people won't think about it in the future when the person behind them in line is coughing right into their neck?

Offline omraged9

  • Ballroom 20
  • ****
  • Join Date: Jan 2014
  • Posts: 761
  • Liked: 208
Re: Reports & check ins in the age of Covid
« Reply #141 on: March 27, 2020, 05:16:13 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
A lot of those links you posted don't have anything to do with covid, they talk about using chloroquine for other purposes.  Other links refer to chloroquine as an anti-viral, it's not approved as an anti-viral that I know of.  The only link in all those you posted that I saw that directly discusses chloroquine and covid was an experiment done in vitro, in a "test tube".  There's a lot of stuff that works in a test tube that doesn't work in a living organism.  Chloroquine was looked at as a drug to treat HIV and SARS.  It showed promise in vitro.  SARS was the novel coronavirus of it's day.  That promise didn't translate.

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

There's only one study concerning efficacy of chloroquine on covid in humans.  That's the study I posted.  Many of those links you posted are hopes and prayers, not science.

My opinion has nothing to do with Trump politicizing it.  There is simply no evidence that chloroquine is effective in treating covid.  This happened during the SARS outbreak as well.  People were convinced that steroids were the magic cure.  Looking back, it wasn't.  In fact, it did more harm than good.  Here are a couple of papers about steroids and SARS.  The first was a pro/con about it as it happened.  Sounds familiar doesn't it?

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

And here is look back about what happened because some people went ahead because they thought steroids were the answer.

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Right now, people are throwing every possible drug they can think of at covid in hopes that something will work.  I would not be surprised if someone swears that the miracle drug, aspirin, is the answer.  It would be great if an existing drug was an effective treatment.  I would be ecstatic if that was chloroquine.  But right now there is no evidence that chloroquine or any other existing drug is effective.

I disagree, I don't feel many anecdotal reports are zero evidence. And you can't compare a drug like hydroxychloroquine to steroids and aspirin. They're all different drugs. You're making a disingenuous argument in making them sound like the same drugs. You're assuming a drug like HCQ is a "miracle drug" which no one, including myself, has said it is. The only person who said it was Trump and we know not to believe anything he says. But if it is found to help lessen the severity of covid-19, then doctors should consider prescribing it. If it's all fake news, then why are there countless trials starting in testing it out?

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Yes theoretically if there were no epidemic, we should wait for these trial studies to finish and see their conclusions before prescribing them. But if you or family members get sick now and, if certain members have underlying conditions that put them more at risk, are you going to ignore all the positive anecdotal reports? I can tell you that from the few doctors I've talked to, the ones who understand the low profile side effects of HCQ, they would choose to take it.

ETA: Reddit found another new published article that touts the drug:

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
I've been in contact with my GP and my mum who's a nurse practitioner helping treat/refer covid-19 patients.

I'm carefully watching for worsening symptoms. So far they're coming and going, one day is good and then the next day is insanely bad. My mum is home from work for the next three days so she's keeping an eye on me for now just in case.

The only problem with getting meds prescribed is that I'm on A LOT of medications already (I have a few chronic conditions and a cerebrovascular disease.) So, I basically need to consult with pharmacists and my specialists any time something more than the basics need to be prescribed, thus I'm waiting until it's actually needed. Of note, my liver enzymes have been slightly elevated lately, so I'm definitely not adding any other meds unless absolutely necessary.

I've been told to mainly self-quarantine, hydrate (which I always drink at least 2.5L a day,) watch for fevers and treat them, etc. Currently, I'm not too worried unless I start developing breathing issues, if that happens I'm going straight to the ER. I'm young, not immunocompromised despite all my issues, and generally healthy. So unless it takes a turn for the worse, I'm going to try and remain as calm as my anxiety disorder allows.

At this point, even in California I don't qualify for testing for it yet unless I worsen. I'm basically resting in bed, hydrating, taking tylenol as needed, playing a lot of video games to kill time, and working remotely when I feel up to it. Thank god for the timing of Animal Crossing: New Horizons.

Yes I would agree, if you have other medications that could interact poorly with either HCQ or azithromycin, then you shouldn't take it. I would look into taking zinc supplements (non toxic amount) and make sure it doesn't interact badly with your current meds. Good luck and keep us posted.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2020, 05:28:10 PM by omraged9 »

Offline chocolateshake

  • Fulfillment Room
  • *****
  • Join Date: Dec 2016
  • Posts: 1968
  • Liked: 721
Re: Reports & check ins in the age of Covid
« Reply #142 on: March 27, 2020, 07:01:17 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
I disagree, I don't feel many anecdotal reports are zero evidence.

Why is snake oil no longer a thing?  Because anecdotes are not evidence of efficacy.  I'll stick with science.

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
ETA: Reddit found another new published article that touts the drug:

An article full of anecdotes is still just a bunch of anecdotes.

Offline omraged9

  • Ballroom 20
  • ****
  • Join Date: Jan 2014
  • Posts: 761
  • Liked: 208
Re: Reports & check ins in the age of Covid
« Reply #143 on: March 27, 2020, 07:37:14 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Why is snake oil no longer a thing?  Because anecdotes are not evidence of efficacy.  I'll stick with science.

An article full of anecdotes is still just a bunch of anecdotes.


Numerous clinical trials starting to study this drug is considered snake oil? Wow, ok. I guess you need to tell these doctors here in the US and multiple countries like South Korea, France, Spain, etc. who've been prescribing HCQ have been using snake oil. And also all the researchers who've been conducting these studies are peddling snake oil and not conducting real science.

As for anecdotes being anecdotes, well I guess we should ignore all the anecdotes of patients having covid-19 symptoms or doctors seeing patients die from covid-19 disease. Technically none of it has been scientifically proven yet, it's all "a  bunch of anecdotes."

Offline Devorah

  • Global Moderator
  • Volunteer HQ
  • ****
  • Join Date: Mar 2012
  • Posts: 2710
  • If the apocalypse comes, beep me.
  • Liked: 1169
Re: Reports & check ins in the age of Covid
« Reply #144 on: March 27, 2020, 07:57:44 PM »
This thread is for members to check in and let us know how they are feeling, and how they are dealing with quarantine. Nothing wrong with a healthy debate but I think this one has run its course. Let’s move on please.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Offline Miss Kitty

  • Supporter
  • Fulfillment Room
  • *****
  • Join Date: May 2013
  • Posts: 1979
  • Liked: 631
Re: Reports & check ins in the age of Covid
« Reply #145 on: March 27, 2020, 08:42:36 PM »
I'm excited and nervous to go out on our weekly shopping trek tomorrow.

My friend gave me a heads up for a company hiring. Idk what to do?! I am still with the company, just not making money as of next Friday.
My nurse friend said a lot of people, including homeless, are coming in with a bad cough. They aren't even trying, but testing them as if they have covid-19. Another friend that owns a clinic said they rent getting the test kits and also just testing as if they have the virus. So the numbers we are hearing are totally higher.

 

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
« Last Edit: March 27, 2020, 08:46:46 PM by Miss Kitty »

Offline puppy

  • Gaming Lounge
  • ****
  • Join Date: Apr 2018
  • Posts: 380
  • Liked: 131
Re: Reports & check ins in the age of Covid
« Reply #146 on: March 27, 2020, 10:28:59 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
I'm excited and nervous to go out on our weekly shopping trek tomorrow.

My friend gave me a heads up for a company hiring. Idk what to do?! I am still with the company, just not making money as of next Friday.
My nurse friend said a lot of people, including homeless, are coming in with a bad cough. They aren't even trying, but testing them as if they have covid-19. Another friend that owns a clinic said they rent getting the test kits and also just testing as if they have the virus. So the numbers we are hearing are totally higher.


This is why you don't look at the number of cases. You look at the number of people hospitalized and/or dying/dead. That will give you a better idea of how bad it is.

When the hospitals start getting overloaded, you look only at the people who are dead, not the ones hospitalized, because those that should be hospitalized will be pushed back out onto the streets while they are still very sick to free up beds. I hear that is starting to happen in some places.

Offline chocolateshake

  • Fulfillment Room
  • *****
  • Join Date: Dec 2016
  • Posts: 1968
  • Liked: 721
Re: Reports & check ins in the age of Covid
« Reply #147 on: March 28, 2020, 11:22:21 PM »
I haven't been out of the house, except for a quick pharmacy run, for almost 3 weeks.  I've been ordering things to be shipped instead of going to the grocery store.  I don't even want delivery.  It's worked out OK.

On another note, San Diego is getting serious about enforcing the stay at home mandate.  On the news today they said that a violation is up to a $1000 and/or 6 months in jail.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2020, 05:43:35 PM by chocolateshake »

Offline alyssa

  • Administrator
  • Stan Lee's Hospitality Suite
  • *****
  • Join Date: Nov 2011
  • Posts: 21172
  • Liked: 5418
Re: Reports & check ins in the age of Covid
« Reply #148 on: March 29, 2020, 10:19:58 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

On another note, San Diego is getting serious about enforcing the stay at home mandate.  On the news today they said that a violation is up to a $1000 and/or 6 months in jail.

Having been out and about on my motorcycle a bit, my sense is the cops are not being jerks but just moving people along. I drive by the beaches & noted no one sitting but a fair amout of folks moving- walking/ jogging etc. It really seems as tho the cops understand folks need to move around for sanity. They are very present but I have not seen them confront anybody. I am only on the coast & north of SD tho. I have no idea what's happening south of the city proper.

i do have a question for locals, how are the grocery stores doing? I'm going to need to go out this week for food.
I've got my list but am worried about not being able to get everything at one stop. Have folks found it's better to go in the morning? any tips for getting everything i need. (i'm set for tp lol)
« Last Edit: March 29, 2020, 10:25:01 AM by alyssa »
Donations gratefully accepted. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login,
Our Twitters @FoCCBlog @friendsofcci
"Are you willing to give up all you are, to keep all you have?" G'kar Babylon 5

Offline chocolateshake

  • Fulfillment Room
  • *****
  • Join Date: Dec 2016
  • Posts: 1968
  • Liked: 721
Re: Reports & check ins in the age of Covid
« Reply #149 on: March 29, 2020, 12:00:10 PM »
The San Diego Sheriff has said publicly that they don't have the manpower to enforce the mandate, so they aren't even trying at this point.  When the San Diego mayor was asked about an enforcement issue, he sidestepped it by referring back to what the Sheriff said so that it's not an issue.  I don't think the authorities want to confront people.  They want voluntary cooperation for now.

Regarding grocery shopping, here is the latest study about how long covid lives on surfaces and what in the house can kill it.  To my surprise, the surface it lives the longest on is a face mask.  Since a mask is so fibrous, I thought it would be similar to paper or cloth.  It's not.  The outside is still infectious after 7 days.  Steel and plastic can be infectious up to 7 days.  So I'm upping my grocery isolation to 7 days from 4 to err on the side of caution.

This study hasn't been peer reviewed and thus not published, so keep that in mind.

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
« Last Edit: March 29, 2020, 12:02:14 PM by chocolateshake »