Author Topic: Reports & check ins in the age of Covid  (Read 127649 times)

Offline chocolateshake

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Re: Reports & check ins in the age of Covid
« Reply #1005 on: May 05, 2021, 11:00:36 AM »
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Yeah, it's like the floodgates opened here...all my friends that weren't part of the original group 1 (A, B, etc.) are all now signed up for their first, if not second shots.

It's because pretty much everyone who wants a shot, has already gotten it.  Demand has halved since 4/11.  Now some states are no longer taking their allocation of vaccine, they just don't know what to do with it.  Supply exceeds demand.  What's left is the 30% of the population who will be hard to vaccinate.  A large portion of which have vowed not to be vaccinated.  So now there are incentives.  Target is doing the same as they do with the flu vaccine.  They'll give a $5 coupon to get vaccinated.  Considering that most people during a normal year don't get the flu vaccine, I don't think that will cut it.  We are in the carrot phase.

Offline Transmute Jun

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Re: Reports & check ins in the age of Covid
« Reply #1006 on: May 05, 2021, 12:22:19 PM »
You also have to consider that people who have not yet had the vaccine are those who have health concerns about it. You may not have those same concerns, but they are real to the people who have them. They won't give up their long-term health for the sake of a free donut.

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Re: Reports & check ins in the age of Covid
« Reply #1007 on: Today at 03:32:58 AM »

Offline Michaelnaut

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Re: Reports & check ins in the age of Covid
« Reply #1007 on: May 05, 2021, 12:39:17 PM »
And even though the pace is slowing, it still is forward progress.  The more than get vaccinated the risk becomes lower.  Every little bit helps.
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Offline Andrew Costa Mesa

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Re: Reports & check ins in the age of Covid
« Reply #1008 on: May 05, 2021, 01:34:46 PM »
Preliminary studies from Moderna show booster shots have proven to be effective against both the Brazilian and South African variants.  The test subjects were given the boosters six to eight months after their second doses.  The subjects were given either the original Moderna dose or an adjusted Moderna dose targeted against the variants.
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Offline Miclpea

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Re: Reports & check ins in the age of Covid
« Reply #1009 on: May 05, 2021, 01:37:31 PM »
Is anyone else concerned about probable variants from India?


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Offline Andrew Costa Mesa

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Re: Reports & check ins in the age of Covid
« Reply #1010 on: May 05, 2021, 01:39:02 PM »
Hospitalizations in California are at its lowest level since the pandemic started 14 months ago.  Currently, there are 1,608 Californians hospitalized, lower than the 1,617 hospitalized on March 30, 2020.  This is a big contrast to the 21,936 hospitalized at its peak on January 6, 2021.
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Offline puppy

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Re: Reports & check ins in the age of Covid
« Reply #1011 on: May 05, 2021, 01:56:36 PM »
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Is anyone else concerned about probable variants from India?


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Re: Reports & check ins in the age of Covid
« Reply #1012 on: May 05, 2021, 02:03:05 PM »
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It's because pretty much everyone who wants a shot, has already gotten it.  Demand has halved since 4/11.  Now some states are no longer taking their allocation of vaccine, they just don't know what to do with it.  Supply exceeds demand.  What's left is the 30% of the population who will be hard to vaccinate.  A large portion of which have vowed not to be vaccinated.  So now there are incentives.  Target is doing the same as they do with the flu vaccine.  They'll give a $5 coupon to get vaccinated.  Considering that most people during a normal year don't get the flu vaccine, I don't think that will cut it.  We are in the carrot phase.

If people won't be allowed to fly out of the country or cruise without a vaccine, that might help motivate some people.

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Re: Reports & check ins in the age of Covid
« Reply #1013 on: May 05, 2021, 04:22:44 PM »
Kids are also included in that unvaccinated stat. Pfizer might get authorization for 12-15 year olds next week, and they said they might be ready ask for authorization down to 5 year olds by September. Every little bit helps!

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Offline chocolateshake

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Re: Reports & check ins in the age of Covid
« Reply #1014 on: May 05, 2021, 09:37:15 PM »
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You also have to consider that people who have not yet had the vaccine are those who have health concerns about it. You may not have those same concerns, but they are real to the people who have them. They won't give up their long-term health for the sake of a free donut.

But it's not just one free donut.  It's a free donut a day for the rest of the year!

Seriously though, what health concerns?  I'm not being judgemental, I'm genuinely curious.  There are some people who are at peril with the covid vaccine.  It's the same peril they share with most vaccines.  They are allergic to some component used to make vaccines.  That's rare.  There is that blood clot issue with one of the vaccines, but that is exceedingly rare.  Just walking on a street in the US is more dangerous to your health.  The people with these issues would be so small as to not even register on the overall numbers.

The larger populations with concerns would be people with compromised immune systems.  The concern is that there isn't enough data on those populations.  There's no reason to believe it's not safe.  There's just not enough data to definitively declare it.

Overall, the covid vaccine is very safe.  The only people I know of that are recommended not to get it are people that have severe allergies to vaccine components.

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If people won't be allowed to fly out of the country or cruise without a vaccine, that might help motivate some people.

That's the stick phase.  We are currently in the carrot phase.  The government strategy is carrot first, then stick.  But they have hinted that the stick will come if the carrot doesn't work.  Things like preferential treatment at the airport is one thing.  It doesn't even have to be an outright ban.  It can be that if you are vaccinated you slide through security quickly.  If you aren't vaccinated, you have to show up to the airport 5 hours early to get a covid test before you can fly.

Private companies will probably use the stick first.  They will limit who they serve based on vaccination status.  That strategy has been quite effective in other countries with other precautions.  No mask, no service.  If you have positive covid test, come back later.  Other countries have or are making digital vaccine passports for this purpose.  We are sticking with a piece of paper with some scribbles on it.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2021, 09:58:56 PM by chocolateshake »

Offline Transmute Jun

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Re: Reports & check ins in the age of Covid
« Reply #1015 on: May 06, 2021, 08:30:58 PM »
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Seriously though, what health concerns?  I'm not being judgemental, I'm genuinely curious.  There are some people who are at peril with the covid vaccine.  It's the same peril they share with most vaccines.  They are allergic to some component used to make vaccines.  That's rare.  There is that blood clot issue with one of the vaccines, but that is exceedingly rare.  Just walking on a street in the US is more dangerous to your health.  The people with these issues would be so small as to not even register on the overall numbers.

Those are not the health concerns. The health concerns are twofold. First of all, more people have died as a result of taking the COVID vaccine (all types) than have died from all other vaccines combined over the past 15 years. And those stats are from the VAERS database, which is known for being a poor source because it undercounts deaths and adverse reactions. The real issue though is that this vaccine was rushed. The people who don't want the vaccine are for the most part NOT anti-vaxxers. Most of them have gotten other vaccines. But those vaccines were tested for 2-4 years before being approved, which gave enough data to measure long-term side effects. There are studies out there (which are being suppressed in the US) showing that there are likely to be long-term adverse health effects, including significant increased susceptibility to future SARS-type diseases (and you know that these will come... COVID is hardly the first disease to come from a SARS virus). Now all of this is so far unknown, because obviously we haven't been through a proper flu season with a bunch of vaccinated people. But that's the point: we don't know. Maybe there isn't a problem. If so, then the majority of people who don't want the vaccine now will voluntarily take it in a couple of years, after this has been shown. But if there is a possible problem, these people don't want to be the guinea pigs in what is essentially the largest vaccine test in history.

I understand that you do not agree with this point of view, but this is the way the vaccine resistors think. The sad thing is, many of these people might be convinced with a proper scientific debate, where medical personnel on both sides (and there are actually many respected doctors and scientists who do not want the vaccine) go through data and studies. But two-sided debate does not exist in this country any longer. Anyone who speaks out about potential problems with the vaccine is silenced or canceled. This makes those who are already hesitant MORE scared. Lack of free speech is the real disconnect here. People think that if those with differing information are being canceled, then there is something being hidden. That's the biggest fear: what is the government hiding? And if they're not hiding anything, why won't they address those who are not eager to take the vaccine? (And no, Obama making a PSA assuring everyone that the vaccine is 'safe' does not assuage any of their fears.)

So there's your answer. I'm not trying to start an argument, but I do think it helps in any situation to understand how the other side thinks, and why they hold their opposing viewpoint. That's how productive discussions (and ultimately, productive resolutions) are reached.

If you want people to take the vaccine, the answer is not the carrot or the stick. The answer is to have a free and open discussion where there is actual proof that the vaccine is 'harmless', and all points of view and all medical studies are discussed and evaluated equally.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2021, 08:34:49 PM by Transmute Jun »

Offline chocolateshake

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Re: Reports & check ins in the age of Covid
« Reply #1016 on: May 07, 2021, 12:29:28 AM »
Thanks for your response.  You've aptly characterized the challenge with the vaccine hesitant.  I am familiar with those arguments.  When polled the reasons the hesitant gave were mostly based on misinformation.  The one reason that wasn't was they didn't want to experience vaccine side effects.  Even there, I think too much has been made of possibly trading a couple of days of feeling under the weather for protection against a potentially fatal disease.  Otherwise their reasons were based on falsehoods that have always been common about vaccines such as the vaccine might give you covid.  That's impossible.

Some people look at raw data, the VAERS database for example, and draw erroneous conclusions.  That's a database anyone can report into.  That data has to be vetted and analyzed to be meaningful.  Just because someone died who was vaccinated, doesn't mean that the vaccine was the cause of their death.  Eventually we will all die, does that mean the vaccine caused it?  The CDC has looked at those reports and to date have found no link.  When they do find a link, even if it's exceeding rare, they take action.  That's exactly the case with clotting and the J&J vaccine.  Even with a 1 in a 1,000,000 chance of a problem, they paused the vaccine.  In lieu of posting more on this particular issue, I will simply post a video of Dr. Gupta answering this very question.  The look on his face says more than anything I can say here.



I do disagree that there hasn't been proper scientific debate.  There has.  The majority of people in science are on the same page.  As with climate change, there are dissenters.  Some people use the views of the few to cancel the views of the many.

Misinformation is the struggle of our time.  It's not a recent development.  We have been sliding down this path for decades.  The challenge with the covid vaccine hesitant is the same anti-vaxxer struggle that's been happening and growing for a long time.  Diseases which were once effectively eliminated are making a comeback because people refuse to get vaccinated.  I don't think it will be any different with covid.  I've had far too many conversations that end when someone says that even if everything I say is true, they don't care.  They won't be won over.  Faith doesn't fall easily to facts.

I think all the talk about herd immunity and ridding ourselves of covid were and are unrealistic here in the US.  I've been of the opinion that covid, in the US, will be with us for the foreseeable future.  Which will have consequences that will go beyond the disease.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2021, 01:19:41 AM by chocolateshake »

Offline perc2100

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Re: Reports & check ins in the age of Covid
« Reply #1017 on: May 07, 2021, 09:50:52 AM »
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But it's not just one free donut.  It's a free donut a day for the rest of the year!

Seriously though, what health concerns?  I'm not being judgemental, I'm genuinely curious.  There are some people who are at peril with the covid vaccine.  It's the same peril they share with most vaccines.  They are allergic to some component used to make vaccines.  That's rare.  There is that blood clot issue with one of the vaccines, but that is exceedingly rare.  Just walking on a street in the US is more dangerous to your health.  The people with these issues would be so small as to not even register on the overall numbers.

The larger populations with concerns would be people with compromised immune systems.  The concern is that there isn't enough data on those populations.  There's no reason to believe it's not safe.  There's just not enough data to definitively declare it.

Overall, the covid vaccine is very safe.  The only people I know of that are recommended not to get it are people that have severe allergies to vaccine components.

That's the stick phase.  We are currently in the carrot phase.  The government strategy is carrot first, then stick.  But they have hinted that the stick will come if the carrot doesn't work.  Things like preferential treatment at the airport is one thing.  It doesn't even have to be an outright ban.  It can be that if you are vaccinated you slide through security quickly.  If you aren't vaccinated, you have to show up to the airport 5 hours early to get a covid test before you can fly.

Private companies will probably use the stick first.  They will limit who they serve based on vaccination status.  That strategy has been quite effective in other countries with other precautions.  No mask, no service.  If you have positive covid test, come back later.  Other countries have or are making digital vaccine passports for this purpose.  We are sticking with a piece of paper with some scribbles on it.
I literally had a 'discussion' with a gentleman idiot who said he wasn't getting vaccinated because he was careful about what he put in his body.  While he was smoking a cigarette; and holding a bottle of Diet Coke.

Offline Andrew Costa Mesa

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Re: Reports & check ins in the age of Covid
« Reply #1018 on: May 07, 2021, 11:45:31 AM »
If some people feel uncomfortable getting a Covid-19 vaccine because it only has emergency authorization and not full authorization, I’m not going to begrudge them.  What I didn’t appreciate was when a bunch of anti-vaccine protestors tried to block people from getting the vaccine at Dodger Stadium a couple of months ago.

The FDA normally does not rush through vaccine approval.  Just that we are dealing with a disease that has already killed 580,000 Americans in 14 months.  This is the second-worst worldwide pandemic in recent memory just after the 1918-19 flu pandemic.  With that in mind and speaking for myself, I did not have an issue getting the vaccine because the alternative would be to stay home and stay away from people which I have already done for 14 months and I don’t want to continue living like that.
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Offline alyssa

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Re: Reports & check ins in the age of Covid
« Reply #1019 on: May 07, 2021, 12:16:25 PM »
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Those are not the health concerns. The health concerns are twofold. First of all, more people have died as a result of taking the COVID vaccine (all types) than have died from all other vaccines combined over the past 15 years. And those stats are from the VAERS database, which is known for being a poor source because it undercounts deaths and adverse reactions. The real issue though is that this vaccine was rushed. The people who don't want the vaccine are for the most part NOT anti-vaxxers. Most of them have gotten other vaccines. But those vaccines were tested for 2-4 years before being approved, which gave enough data to measure long-term side effects. There are studies out there (which are being suppressed in the US) showing that there are likely to be long-term adverse health effects, including significant increased susceptibility to future SARS-type diseases (and you know that these will come... COVID is hardly the first disease to come from a SARS virus). Now all of this is so far unknown, because obviously we haven't been through a proper flu season with a bunch of vaccinated people. But that's the point: we don't know. Maybe there isn't a problem. If so, then the majority of people who don't want the vaccine now will voluntarily take it in a couple of years, after this has been shown. But if there is a possible problem, these people don't want to be the guinea pigs in what is essentially the largest vaccine test in history.

I understand that you do not agree with this point of view, but this is the way the vaccine resistors think. The sad thing is, many of these people might be convinced with a proper scientific debate, where medical personnel on both sides (and there are actually many respected doctors and scientists who do not want the vaccine) go through data and studies. But two-sided debate does not exist in this country any longer. Anyone who speaks out about potential problems with the vaccine is silenced or canceled. This makes those who are already hesitant MORE scared. Lack of free speech is the real disconnect here. People think that if those with differing information are being canceled, then there is something being hidden. That's the biggest fear: what is the government hiding? And if they're not hiding anything, why won't they address those who are not eager to take the vaccine? (And no, Obama making a PSA assuring everyone that the vaccine is 'safe' does not assuage any of their fears.)

So there's your answer. I'm not trying to start an argument, but I do think it helps in any situation to understand how the other side thinks, and why they hold their opposing viewpoint. That's how productive discussions (and ultimately, productive resolutions) are reached.

If you want people to take the vaccine, the answer is not the carrot or the stick. The answer is to have a free and open discussion where there is actual proof that the vaccine is 'harmless', and all points of view and all medical studies are discussed and evaluated equally.

you are not starting an argument ;)

The problem with scientific studies is that they are not created equal, some scientists develop the premise of their study & the logic is flawed. Yet it seems logical to the layperson. Those studies don't carry the same weight as a more rigorous logic & methodology. I'm not saying all the contradictory studies are this way but it bares keeping in mind. For example, a study with 100,000 people vs one with 100 produces better statistical numbers. 
But that 100 person study gets promoted even tho it's not valid. This happens on both sides. Climate change deniers/anti-child hood vacers/BigFoot believers/Area 51, etc all

i understand not wanting to be a guinea pig for the new vaxx technology. However, each passing day is one step on the road for that study. The general population started to get vaxxed on 12/14/20, that's 6 months ago. I've heard about a couple of blood clots & a handful of reactions. Are they're more? if so That perhaps a doz deaths per 1,000,000 (in the US) - does that sound right to folks?

I literally can not stand spin artists on either side - they both drive me crazy with their selective truth.
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