Author Topic: Loki ***Spoilers***  (Read 1363 times)

Offline perc2100

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Re: Loki ***Spoilers***
« Reply #15 on: June 17, 2021, 08:23:59 AM »
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Really wondering if the female Loki is actually the Enchantress since her name is Sylvie.  That's the name of the second Enchantress.
Seems absolutely incredibly plausible (another possible clue: 'The Variant,' as she's credited, has blonde hair while the Female Loki typically has the same black hair as prime Loki)

Offline Michael M

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Re: Loki ***Spoilers***
« Reply #16 on: June 17, 2021, 10:21:05 AM »
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Yes, I noticed that last week.  I watched the credits hoping for a post credit scene.

This week, I liked the second half of the episode more than the first half.  Loki was just too goofy and weaselly during the first half.  It didn't seem to me to be true to character.
Agree! When the show opened up with him
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, I was like WTF? Second half of it was awesome!
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Re: Loki ***Spoilers***
« Reply #17 on: Today at 08:22:54 PM »

Offline Michael M

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Re: Loki ***Spoilers***
« Reply #17 on: June 17, 2021, 10:30:25 AM »
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Seems absolutely incredibly plausible (another possible clue: 'The Variant,' as she's credited, has blonde hair while the Female Loki typically has the same black hair as prime Loki)
Adding to this the method that they showed off was more 'possession' than 'illusion'.  I don't remember Loki's usual power set being possession, no?
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Offline Pyramid

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Re: Loki ***Spoilers***
« Reply #18 on: June 17, 2021, 11:12:39 AM »
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Adding to this the method that they showed off was more 'possession' than 'illusion'.  I don't remember Loki's usual power set being possession, no?

I don't think so.  In the comics, Dark Avengers, Loki creates the Enchantress, Sylvie Lushton, who thought she was Asgardian but wasn't.  Part of her powers are mental manipulation which are clearly evident in the show.  Even Loki says it's an enchantment.

Here's what I think is going on in the show.  Loki wants to commit the ultimate mischievous act of creating ultimate timelines especially one in which he will rule.  He also doesn't trust the Time Keepers which I think is being led by Kang, the Conqueror.  The sculpture in Ravonna's office reminds me so much of Kang.  I think what we are watching is in the past and the damage to the timeline is already done.  Loki is ruling in another timeline and needs that timeline to be preserved so that the variants can exist creating more mischief.
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Offline Chris

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Re: Loki ***Spoilers***
« Reply #19 on: June 17, 2021, 11:20:53 AM »
I NEED a variant jacket immediately.

Offline Michael M

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Re: Loki ***Spoilers***
« Reply #20 on: June 17, 2021, 11:45:36 AM »
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I NEED a variant jacket immediately.
I would *so* wear this to work and then when people ask me stuff I'd say "no, you're looking for the other guy" :D
"you're makin' - me - beat - up - grass!!"

Offline Chris

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Re: Loki ***Spoilers***
« Reply #21 on: June 23, 2021, 06:50:28 PM »
I wonder if the green circles in the background while they are sitting on the train is a nod the the pattern on the enchantress' leggings.

Offline Michael M

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Re: Loki ***Spoilers***
« Reply #22 on: June 24, 2021, 04:24:33 AM »
I'll have to watch it again, but did anyone notice the amount of times Loki/Sylvie said the word "enchant" during their conversations? I thought it quite an inordinate amount, almost to the point where I could see them making air quote hand movements when they said the word...but I was thinking that was also a nod to that character.
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Offline perc2100

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Re: Loki ***Spoilers***
« Reply #23 on: June 24, 2021, 07:47:25 AM »
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I'll have to watch it again, but did anyone notice the amount of times Loki/Sylvie said the word "enchant" during their conversations? I thought it quite an inordinate amount, almost to the point where I could see them making air quote hand movements when they said the word...but I was thinking that was also a nod to that character.
It feels obvious that while Sylvie does indeed seem to be a Loki variant on the series, the creatives took huge inspiration from the comic character (heck, even on a base level she looks more like the comic character Sylvie than the comic character 'Lady Loki').  They did use the word 'enchant' a TON during episode 3!

BTW, I adored that episode.  It feels like in the age of Uber-serialized drama series AND elected to go to 10 or less eps a season we don't get a lot of eps that just sit back and let us enjoy time with characters/character development.  When I quickly realized we'd likely be looking at an Owen Wilson-less ep, I got a little bummed but then realized Tom Hiddleston & Sophia Di Martino have great chemistry too!  I really enjoyed just kind of hanging out with these characters, even if little plot points were revealed/developed (though learning the TVA employees, or at least some of them, are
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was an interesting development!).  Bravo do the creatives for letting us learn a bit about Sylvie so when inevitable twists and turn happen in future eps they'll have heft now that we know the character more!  I'm really digging this series: much more than "Falcon and the Winter Solider" (which I didn't dislike), and this is so far a fun story with pretty awesome production design!

Offline Chris

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Re: Loki ***Spoilers***
« Reply #24 on: June 24, 2021, 07:57:12 AM »
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I'll have to watch it again, but did anyone notice the amount of times Loki/Sylvie said the word "enchant" during their conversations? I thought it quite an inordinate amount, almost to the point where I could see them making air quote hand movements when they said the word...but I was thinking that was also a nod to that character.

Yeah, they baked too many enchants into the episode.

Offline Zero

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Re: Loki ***Spoilers***
« Reply #25 on: June 24, 2021, 12:54:08 PM »
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I NEED a variant jacket immediately.

Bwuhahahahahaha, me too! XD
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Offline perc2100

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Re: Loki ***Spoilers***
« Reply #26 on: June 24, 2021, 03:41:36 PM »
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Yeah, they baked too many enchants into the episode.
Watching it again, I would tend to agree.
BUT...
I remembered my parents.  Shows and films like this I always think of how my parents would react.  I consider them the 'average' audience for stuff like this: little/no knowledge of the source material, little/no care of authenticity to source material, just look for an entertaining time.  With most things movies I consider myself more of a movie nerd/snob than the average person, so I always like to hear my parents' opinions on stuff to get a better feel of what plays with the average audience.  Before the pandemic my parens typically would see a few movies a month; they currently have Disney+ and Hulu streaming services and have seen all the Marvel films on the big screen (though rarely have ever revisited a movie).  I think we all know/can agree that "Loki" was a fairly easy broad concept for Marvel Studios to back, as Tom Hiddleston is great in the role and Loki is one of the most popular Marvel characters (I'd bet he's more popular than most of the good guys at this point).  But getting the average folks to buy into the character and his magical mischief is a challenge.  Obviously they dove right into the deep end with the TVA, and as I've said having Owen Wilson being the actor that delivers the bulk of the exposition info-dumps in the first 2 eps to set up that side of the universe and leading to 'The Variant' (Sylvie) was brilliant casting.  W/out knowing what "Loki" has in store in future eps, they have to make Sylvie both similar to Loki (her fighting style in ep. 3 is very similar at times, as is her ego) while making her a unique challenge for Loki.  Thus, the "enchanting" stuff.

For me, "Loki" has been a real fun exercise to see the writers in particular work their magic for such a really odd concept.  This stuff plays easy for us nerds (many of us either have read the comics with the TVA and Mobius, or at least are entrenched enough in this stuff to go with it w/out questioning too much) but is nearly incomprehensible if one were to, say, describe this from scratch to someone who is barely familiar with the MCU

Offline perc2100

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Re: Loki ***Spoilers***
« Reply #27 on: June 30, 2021, 12:43:10 PM »
It's become clear that "Loki" is turning out to be a masterclass in TV serial writing.  The way the writers spent 2 episodes virtually setting everything up, the 3rd ep deviating from the story to give the audience a chance to get to know Slyvie, get a sense of where she came from what she's feeling, etc. only to return to the main story with a BANG in ep 4 to start paying it all off is near perfection!  They were incredibly fortuitous w/casting, as Owen Wilson delivering sooooo much exposition in the first 2 eps plays well: there are likely other actors who could've pulled that off, but I can only think of A TON of actors who likely wouldn't have been as entertaining delivering virtually 90 mins of exposition to set up the story. And ep 3 "Lamentis" showing us how solid the chemistry is between Tom Hiddleston and Sophia Di Martino's Sylvie!   Add the weirdly fascinating production design, and the writer's incredibly challenging task has been aided by great casting & production design.

Moreso than the other Disney+ MCU mini-series, "Loki" feels like the writers (and director, and editors) have REALLY nailed the "movie trilogy" feel here, and captured it damned near perfectly so far through what feels like the end of Act/Part 2 where the latest episode 'The Nexus Event' finishes (expertly setting up
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in the super brief mid-credits scene).  I think "WandaVision" came close to the 'trilogy' feel, but it was hampered a bit structurally by it's awesomely inventive decision to kick off the first half of episodes w/TV sitcom themes from different eras.  "Loki" takes the fun quirky ideas of its premise, drops the sitcom gimmick that "WandaVision" leaned into, and really nails the 3-movie/Act structure nicely.  For an example of a Marvel series executing this stuff not-so-well, I think 'Agents of SHIELD' is a series that at best had its ups & downs, and often had 'bottle-esque episodes' that absolutely felt like treading water for the sake of padding, and not-so-much executed well.

I know we can pick apart creative decisions all day, or marvel at how much we all love Loki as a character (and likely how thrilled we all are we get 'bonus Loki time' after his quick death in INFINITY WAR seemingly closed the books on his character).  I just wanted to take a moment and point out how solid this writing is, as well as how daring.  We just recently saw "For All Mankind" do similar structurally, where they took their time setting up characters and situation and then had an INCREDIBLE payoff; but generally these types of structural attempts in (particularly dramatic) series tend to miss more than hit.  I mean, it's already in our mindset that episodes "tread water" for an episode, deviating from the main stories, in order to either pad a season's episode link, or save money; heck, we have the terminology "bottle episode" that is short-hand for "takes place in one setting, typically non-related to a season or series-long story, often as a cost-saving measure."  The series "Community" had an incredible episode sending up that TV trope with their episode 'Cooperative Calligraphy' where the amusingly dissected the entire trop while also pulling off their own bottle episode wonderfully! "Loki" isn't so much paving new creative ground, necessarily, but it's doing its thing REALLY well: from casting, to writing, to directing and editing, and execution of it all!!

Of course, we're into Act 3, which is fairly irrefutably MCU's weak-point: climaxes are NOT Marvel movies/series' specialties.  Short of AVENGERS movies, and maybe a handful of other films, we don't walk out of theaters being blown away by the big climax, but more other story or character stuff.  This isn't necessarily a fault, per say, as I think the vast majority of MCU films and the Disney+ series work really well, despite their faults/short-comings.  I think even at this point it's safe to say that "Loki" is a triumph, maybe even a stronger series than "WandaVision," that similarly took a dopey-fun lede line/elevator pitch but really explores deep-seeded issues of the human (even god) psyche (seeing the god of mischief deal with the "why am I here; why am I the way I am?!" the way all of us do from time-to-time has been great, and maybe even cathartic for some folks).  So far both Disney+ series fumbled the big ending to one degree or another, but neither really changed my thoughts on the series as a whole.  I think the same will be the case with "Loki," and I really look forward to the last two episodes to see how this wraps up!!

Offline Chris

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Re: Loki ***Spoilers***
« Reply #28 on: June 30, 2021, 05:54:27 PM »
I think that Marvel is doing great with these TV shows.

I'm honestly liking them more than the recent movies.  In particular, the slap stick jarring un-funny jokes in the movies.

These shows are telling more complex quirky risky stories that are great.  In addition, while the movies are telling comic book stories the show is as well where you don't know what is going on at times for 12 issues.

They need to keep doing these and never stop.

Online chocolateshake

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Re: Loki ***Spoilers***
« Reply #29 on: June 30, 2021, 09:06:40 PM »
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'The Nexus Event' finishes (expertly setting up in the super brief mid-credits scene).

There are credit scenes?  I look for them at the end of each episode by FF but I've never noticed one.  I'll have to go back and watch this one.  Are there others?
« Last Edit: June 30, 2021, 10:00:54 PM by chocolateshake »