Author Topic: Black Widow ***Spoilers***  (Read 492 times)

Offline Chris

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Black Widow ***Spoilers***
« on: June 25, 2021, 02:16:03 PM »
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Offline perc2100

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Re: Black Widow ***Spoilers***
« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2021, 08:19:27 AM »
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‘Black Widow’ Brings The Box Office Back Alive With Record Pandemic $13.2M Thursday Night
larger Thursday night opening than Guardians of the Galaxy & Wonder Woman had.  I haven't seen this yet, but it's nice to see the world in a place where it's juuuuust starting to feel safe enough to return to movie theaters

Also awesome considering it was released VOD day/date as theatrical.  I would _LOVE_ to see this trend continue: give EVERYONE who wants to an opportunity to see a new release - at home or in theaters

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Re: Black Widow ***Spoilers***
« Reply #2 on: Today at 02:12:39 AM »

Offline lliving

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Re: Black Widow ***Spoilers***
« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2021, 08:56:13 PM »
Saw it in IMAX.  LOVED it.  Much better experience in a theatre without the distractions of being at home.  Hopefully this won’t be the last MCU appearance for Harbour & Weisz.  Also, The Eternals trailer on a big screen was


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Offline Michael M

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Re: Black Widow ***Spoilers***
« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2021, 06:18:07 PM »
First movie w/no Stan Lee cameo/appearance/reference :(
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Offline perc2100

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Re: Black Widow ***Spoilers***
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2021, 11:26:00 AM »
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First movie w/no Stan Lee cameo/appearance/reference :(
He didn't cameo in FAR FROM HOME (he was in declining health and the director thought ENDGAME would be an apt last MCU appearance); was there a reference to him in that one?  I can't recall

Offline NCDS

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Re: Black Widow ***Spoilers***
« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2021, 01:49:30 PM »
I enjoyed it but I wouldn't say I loved it.  The post-credit scene though was awesome.

Overall, I think it was partly the timing of the film.  I don't think they did a great job of where they chose to put it on the timeline.
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Offline perc2100

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Re: Black Widow ***Spoilers***
« Reply #6 on: July 11, 2021, 02:58:00 PM »
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This is a good sign: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login  larger Thursday night opening than Guardians of the Galaxy & Wonder Woman had.  I haven't seen this yet, but it's nice to see the world in a place where it's juuuuust starting to feel safe enough to return to movie theaters

Also awesome considering it was released VOD day/date as theatrical.  I would _LOVE_ to see this trend continue: give EVERYONE who wants to an opportunity to see a new release - at home or in theaters
Weekend estimates for BLACK WIDOW now that (most) of the receipts are counted:
* $80 million domestic box office (highest US opening since RISE OF SKYWALKER)
* $78 million international BO
* $60+ million Disney+ Premier Access

Total opening weekend earnings: $218+ million

Pretty good news for the film industry on lots of fronts.
1) at the very least, we know that people WILL come out to see a movie of a brand they know/love.  This excitement has little to do with smaller films, of course, but at the very least it's good for the tentpoles (ie the movies that are monumental financial investments)
2) sure, we can play the 'what if' game, but this domestic opening BO take is better than Marvel's: ANT-MAN AND THE WASP; ANT-MAN; and most of the Phase 1 films not starring RDJ.  For reference, SPIDER-MAN: FAR FROM HOME scored $92,579,212 opening weekend domestically - Spider-Man is _THE_ highest-earning comic franchise as far as ancillary sales and what not (Spidey stuff sells more than Superman & Batman, numbers 2+3 sellers, _COMBINED_) so $12.6ish million of Spidey for a 'prequel' film centering around a character that's been dead in the MCU for 2+ years would be good regardless.  Scoring that opening weekend in a pandemic, when many markets are still a bit limited with opening (especially foreign markets), is a big win, I think.
3) releasing a film VOD day and date of theatrical doesn't appear to negatively impact the BO.  I would LOVE to know what Disney's tracking number data said last spring for BLACK WIDOW to see what the opening expectations were pre-pandemic.  I dunno if the tracking would've been super accurate w/opening day originally being May 1, 2020 but I suspect 2 months out would've been fairly good picture for Disney go be able to gauge how "off" this BO take is from what they thought it would be in 2020 w/out the pandemic.
4) if you combine Disney+ w/domestic BO BLACK WIDOW made $140+ million domestic.  Of the MCU releases, that tops:
- SPIDER-MAN: FAR FROM HOME
- ANT-MAN AND THE WASP
- THOR: RAGNAROK
- SPIDER-MAN: HOMECOMING
- _maybe_ GUARDIANS OF THE GALAXY vol 2 (made $146+ mil)
- DOCTOR STRANGE
- GUARDIANS OF THE GALAXY
- ANT-MAN
- EVERY PHASE 1 & 2 FILM THAT'S NOT IRON MAN 3 or an AVENGERS film

The real question, IMO, is if this success will move the needle as far as film release methods are concerned.  I legit applaud Disney for doing this model and really testing this market: especially with a film they knew they couldn't "just" dump to Disney+.  With the exception of last fall's TENET, this is the first film release that feels like a HAS TO BE RELEASED IN THEATERS IN ORDER TO MAKE MONEY BACK and instead of waiting until fall when numbers MIGHT be even better world-wide, Disney elected to release this in theaters now AND on Disney+ Premium. I'll be curious to see how the numbers hold up this week; buzz is good for this film, even amongst critics (that I know) who aren't exactly big fans of MCU movies typically.  If the numbers hold up and this nets sales that are comparable to the 'average' Marvel film, maybe we'll see studios (and theater chains) not freak the heck out about VOD day/date in the future...

*I still haven't seen this one yet (which is the first time EVER I've not see a Marvel film opening night), though I'll likely see this Monday at the latest.  I guess blame sports for this one: the plan was to see this Saturday with the fam, but my wife and I scored Padres tix (really nice, 15 rows right behind home plate tix: to a game the Pads lost  >:( ), and Sunday is the European soccer Championship Final early afternoon and then USA soccer Gold Cup opening match this evening (plus, you know, doing the normal stuff a family of four has to do the Sunday before the start of a work week).  So I'll see this Monday and chime in with my thoughts if I have something to add to the discourse.
To be honest, I haven't been super excited about this movie: I agree with NCDS that the timing feels off - like, a BLACK WIDOW film would've been amazing in 2015 leading UP to CIVIL WAR, for example.  But a good/entertaining film is a good film, and I'm excited to see this one in the next 24 hours hopefully

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Offline Michael M

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Re: Black Widow ***Spoilers***
« Reply #7 on: July 11, 2021, 03:20:10 PM »
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He didn't cameo in FAR FROM HOME (he was in declining health and the director thought ENDGAME would be an apt last MCU appearance); was there a reference to him in that one?  I can't recall
I thought there was a reference, but I can't find it now. This movie felt different tho.  Out-of-place.  But I think this was originally supposed to be released between Infinity War and Endgame.  I liked it, a lot.  But wasn't OMG.

That being said, it'd be interesting commentary from folks how how they think movies might have been had they been released when originally intended and no pandemic.  Would the feedback/response for this movie be any different had it been released if there was no pandemic?

Personally, I was happy to sit in a movie theater :)
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Offline perc2100

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Re: Black Widow ***Spoilers***
« Reply #8 on: July 11, 2021, 03:52:41 PM »
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I thought there was a reference, but I can't find it now. This movie felt different tho.  Out-of-place.  But I think this was originally supposed to be released between Infinity War and Endgame.  I liked it, a lot.  But wasn't OMG.

That being said, it'd be interesting commentary from folks how how they think movies might have been had they been released when originally intended and no pandemic.  Would the feedback/response for this movie be any different had it been released if there was no pandemic?

Personally, I was happy to sit in a movie theater :)
For sure.  Personally, on a slightly unrelated to BLACK WIDOW but broadly unrelated to MCU/pandemic release, I think "Falcon and the Winter Solider" 100% coming out after "WandaVision" adversely impacted my feelings about the series.  FatWS was supposed to be the first Disney+ series.  After the pandemic shut-down their production, Disney opted instead to release "WandaVision" in its original spring 2021 slot first, and then FatWS shortly thereafter.  I thought "WandaVision" felt like a fresh take on the genre for the most part, and not only played around with format but also played around with a "using the comic movie medium to delve into the grieving process" theme: which worked out WONDERFULLY!  Then, FatWS felt like a mostly stock MCU venture (one that, frankly, might've worked WAY better as a 2:10 film rather than miniseries; like maybe BLACK WIDOW could've made a fun 6ish hour miniseries instead of FatWS) and that felt like more of a letdown immediately following "WandaVision."  I think I wouldn't have had any problems with that (and instead would've just had problems with its writing flaws and other issues the series had) had it preceded "WandaVision" rather than followed

Offline Pyramid

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Re: Black Widow ***Spoilers***
« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2021, 02:59:46 PM »
Just came back after seeing it with my family and we loved it!  I am so glad my daughter saw this!  It really is a powerful movie for women especially when you consider the subtext.  Loved  it!
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Offline perc2100

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Re: Black Widow ***Spoilers***
« Reply #10 on: July 16, 2021, 03:36:14 PM »
I think my enthusiasm for this film would be greater if it would've been made 5 years ago.  It was hard to get too into a film that felt more like Marvel looking backwards rather than forward.
I _LOVE_ the feminist subtext and would really dig a follow-up with Yelena and crew (
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).  Also undeniable at this point, between "Stranger Things," the latest Steven Soderbergh film NO SUDDEN MOVIE (streaming on HBO Max, and a BANGER of a low-key heist movie with an amazing cast!), and here David Harbour is turning out to be a real treasure!  There were a lot of things to like about this movie, but ultimately it didn't feel like this just wasn't quite made for me.  I also struggled with the CGI stuff here: it felt real...unrealistic, which is weird to say about a film in a 20+ series that thrives on unrealism, but there were too many situations that felt like really long stretches of actors against green screen, defying physics constantly (such as A LOT of the big climax - another in a long series of "MCU kinda drops the ball and delivers a meh action-set piece climax"), etc.  Maybe seeing this so soon after the low-key "Loki" finale that was character and dialogue driven admittedly didn't help.

I don't dislike this, and I do look forward to seeing this again with my wife to get her perspective.  There's more here to like for me than dislike: but in the end BLACK WIDOW leaves me more looking forward to 'what's next' rather than thinking about what I've just seen.

If I had a daughter, though, I would really enjoy seeing this with her; and I really enjoyed one of my female students whose also a huge MCU fan (and Comic-Con vet - who was in Hall H in 2019 and has been wearing her Black Widow hat proudly ever since) telling me how much she liked this movie with a glint in her eye she hasn't had about most other Marvel stuff (that she's liked - just not like this).

Offline TardisMom

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Re: Black Widow ***Spoilers***
« Reply #11 on: July 16, 2021, 04:49:38 PM »
I really liked Black Widow, though of course I would have enjoyed it more if it came out a few years ago.  I pretty much always enjoy origin stories.  The best part of the movie for me was Florence Pugh.  The scene where she talks about her uterus being ripped out is HILARIOUS, my daughter and I guffawed until we realized few others were laughing, lol.  Really looking forward to seeing more of Yelena and Valentina (JLD is the BEST!!)!

Offline perc2100

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Re: Black Widow ***Spoilers***
« Reply #12 on: July 16, 2021, 05:43:11 PM »
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I really liked Black Widow, though of course I would have enjoyed it more if it came out a few years ago.  I pretty much always enjoy origin stories.  The best part of the movie for me was Florence Pugh.  The scene where she talks about her uterus being ripped out is HILARIOUS, my daughter and I guffawed until we realized few others were laughing, lol.  Really looking forward to seeing more of Yelena and Valentina (JLD is the BEST!!)!
Yeah, Yelena was a highlight (unintentional comedy and all  :-\ ).  I was hyped for Valentina's appearance: even though I was so certain she would show up after seeing her in "Falcon and the Winter Soldier," I had literally forgotten about her by the time that scene rolled around!

Offline chocolateshake

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Re: Black Widow ***Spoilers***
« Reply #13 on: July 30, 2021, 06:10:59 PM »
Despite talk about Natasha being alive in an alternate timeline, I guess Scarlett J. as the Black Widow is done for good now with all the public fighting. Although with variants now, it can be an opportunity to recast the role.

Offline perc2100

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Re: Black Widow ***Spoilers***
« Reply #14 on: August 02, 2021, 08:29:02 AM »
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Despite talk about Natasha being alive in an alternate timeline, I guess Scarlett J. as the Black Widow is done for good now with all the public fighting. Although with variants now, it can be an opportunity to recast the role.
Yeah, her contract was up and apparently she's done w/Marvel & Disney (more so Disney).  Of course, the two sides of this coin:
1) show business is a business; if Kevin Feige/Marvel Studios want to bring Black Widow back into the world, and ScoJo wants to do it again, they will.  This will almost certainly get settled out of court (NO studio would risk a precedent-setting court ruling against them that sets the stage for a myriad of more lawsuits + residual formula set in stone), likely w/an NDA attached.  ScoJo's beef is with Disney corporate, not Marvel Studios, so that could be detached personally enough for Marvel & her to work together if they want to.

That being said...

2) BLACK WIDOW essentially plays out like what TV calls a 'back door pilot' for Florence Pugh's Yelena Belova character and the rest of the Black Widows.  She can take the reigns and get everything else in the stories that aren't personal/exclusive to Natasha.  Just as Rhodey is a decent enough avatar for the Iron Man 'character' minus Stark, same w/Yelena and the Back Widows.

Just like the comics, there are sooooo many character in the Marvel pool that they can introduce new ones as the old ones "age out" so to speak.  And then in a few decades they can reboot it all back to Iron Man (or whatever).